Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 9:26am
Post 1 of 30
I wonder, how did You guys did that???
I mean, the part of greenscreen is almost white, when other is almost black, like his costume
Currently, I'm making movie, and in some scenes I use bluebox, and I have same problem, even though it doeas not seem to be a problem in your case...
Now I started to manually paint bluescreen, but this is a
of work, and I fear it won't be as accurate as I would wish...
I'm using Magix Video Deluxe.
If someone can help, I would be most greateful
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 9:33am
Post 2 of 30
They used Chromanator...CSB's solution to compositing in and greenscreening...You can pull off no frills keys like that in seconds, according to CSB. Schwar says that the render times are about .05 sec per frame...which is extremely good. So get Chromanator when it comes out and you will be pulling great keys in seconds...
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 12:56pm
Post 3 of 30
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 2:05pm
Post 4 of 30
That would be fun. And I was wondering what made chronomator so special till now... but now that I know, I have to buy it, and if I have to buy it, I need money, and this will mean I have to get an extra job during the summer...
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 3:26pm
Post 5 of 30
It looks as though Chromanator might be a great tool. I look forward to seeing more about it.
I currently use the Serious Magic Ultra Key, and took the .jpg in this thread to see if I could get anything close... An example of the rendered can be found here:
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 3:47pm
Post 6 of 30
Ultra Key is $795 - thats quiate a bit more than Chromanator.
Still it looks like we both give great quality keying tools. I'll have to check their demo (if they have one) - I doubt their animation and grading tools come close to Chromanator.
Maybe we should put the price up a bit
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 3:50pm
Post 7 of 30
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 8:45pm
Post 8 of 30
Chromanator will be great! I'm getting that and AlamDV3.....I can't decide if I should get DigiGrade also.
Posted: Sun, 2nd Nov 2003, 9:21pm
Post 9 of 30
I'm stupid so I don't get what digigrade is supposed to do...
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 2:30pm
Post 10 of 30
Uhm, funny, I just checked it with Magix Video Deluxe, and it seems, I've got great effect
Well, I suppose greenscreen is better than blue
Maybe blue is darker?
Am I right?
Oh, and one more thing, schwar, that's not a good idea
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 2:36pm
Post 11 of 30
Have you got any of your blue screen images around? I could try them in Chromanator and stick up the results maybe...
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 4:29pm
Post 12 of 30
the digi grade tool, i think will be pretty sweet.
Like after effects plugins that i use. It will allow you to give a look to ur footage like minority repots. and also the colour levels of the matrix the blue and green i think...
WILL be a nice tool i think and for the price. As im hoping it will give it that clean look i have been wanting. To take out grainy areas and also myabe improve levels. Just giving it a clearer look.. Thats what i think it is from what i have read maybe wrong.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 4:35pm
Post 13 of 30
ive been talking to a friend. whos testin it at the moment. and i think people should buy this.
It seems very revoutionary to our type of community. the fact its at a reasonable price is even more of a reason to get it.
im pro getting chromanator. the fact youre gonna get amazing quality with ur dv camera footage.
actually a question to ask how do i clam my free alamDV3 program?
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 8:59pm
Post 14 of 30
In DV you Green screen due to the extra bandwidth on the green channel (in 4:1:1 compression Green has 4 times the color info, which will give a cleaner key.)
For film it's different. You generally want a blue screen due to the Lack of color channel info it takes up.
Note you can due blue in DV, and green in film (they did green for some parts of Titanic due to the blue outfits the crew were wearing.) If you do blue in 4:1:1 DV you'll have a harder time getting the key to come as clean as Green.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:05pm
Post 15 of 30
Thats not technically true. 4:1:1 doesn't represent Red, Green and Blue channels at all. 4:1:1 (NTSC) or 4:2:0 (PAL) is the sampling of the LUV channels. All colour information stored on DV equipment is fairly poor, hence the problems with blue and green screening on DV.
4:1:1 means there are 1 U and 1 V sample for every 4 luma samples meaning all colours are pretty much equally poor.
What is true is that CCD are green biased. The human eye sees detail in the green colour range better than any other. Around 60% of the detail we see is in green, 25% in red and 15% in blue. CCD makers know this so they put more green pixels on the CCD than the other two colors.
Even with this extra green detail the resulting image will still only be converted into U and V sampled every 4 pixels horizontally therefore making blue and green much the same when it comes to DV keying edges.
Last edited Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:58pm; edited 1 times in total.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:37pm
Post 16 of 30
I know, I know, I know. It's the 'simple' explaination.
The lum. is sampled every pixel, and red/blue are sampled every fourth pixel (every other when dealing with 4:2:2). When you put these 3 streams together you get the final picture. So there is more Green info/larger channel in a 4:1:1 picture, then blue.
What really causes poor keying on DV (green or blue) is the 5:1 intraframe compression. If you could get rid of that somehow, then with a 4:1:1 color space, Green would REALLY stand out (but also everyone would be getting better keys, blue or green.)
Also if you keep a YUV stream YUV during the keying process (instead of converting it to RGB as some programs do) the green screen will come out cleaner then the blue.
Which begs the question: Does AlamDV/Digigrade/Chromantor keep the video in it's native (usually YUV) form, or does it convert it to RGB?
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:56pm
Post 17 of 30
DV's intraframe compression does indeed contribute to problems keying moving objects. Green information stored in the YUV format is more than that of the blue and red channels put together but it still suffers at the hands of the 4:1:1, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 colour sampling. They will all suffer from poor edges without filtering, but its always going to be best to have as much information as possible there to start with meaning that green is the best followed by red then blue last. We do advise all Chromanator users to avoid blue screen as camcorders are pretting much biased against it from the CCD onwards.
As for Chromanator, all on screen display is in RGB (as you would expect) but otherwise it depends what key method you select. Chroma Key is RGB, Colour Difference Key is HSL (again as you would expect). Conversions made to create a matte (to HSL) only effect calculations for the matte, not the final image so retaining quality.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:48pm
Post 18 of 30
woh... I'm lost...
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:50pm
Post 19 of 30
If you're working with a DV camera then use green screen and a 3CCD camera if possible. Chromanator will do the rest.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:58pm
Post 20 of 30
By the way, has beta testing of Chronomator started yet? AlamDV 3? If not, how do you join?
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 3:53am
Post 21 of 30
Regarless of all that has been said, based on the actual key that Chromanator displayed, and the cost, one can be sure that it will be a best seller. I can honestly say that I will most likely buy it due to the fact that it will probably more easily integrate with AlamDV2 and 3.
I look forward to it's introduction!
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:00pm
Post 22 of 30
Hey, Schwar, I have two frames online http://www.debce.republika.pl/kostek.html
You can find them on this site.
I'm curious of results with Chronomator
I know bluescreen is poorly set, but we had'nt much time
Next time will be better
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:17pm
Post 23 of 30
Neither would blue screen at all well. You first frame has black and white on the textured cloth. The second is just nasty compression. You should use green screen an at least hang it on a wall so it is smooth. Chromanator is really good, but it won't work miracles.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:19pm
Post 24 of 30
Yeah, that isn't a bluescreen. It looks more like a tablecloth with a random bumpy texture to it. Bluescreens/greenscreens are supposed to be flat, smooth and matte.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:35pm
Post 25 of 30
Yeah, but I couldn't get anything better.
Still, could it work, if placed better?
Or maybe this texture makes it impossible? After all, Your greenscreen was partially black, and partially white.
What's the difference??
When I tried bluescreening with those images, they eventually gone 'invisible' (
), but also small part of me did (on the edge of my figure).
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:38pm
Post 26 of 30
Chromanator can work with imperfect greenscreens, like in the Sollthar example. However, your bluescreen isn't even a screen, it's a big nobbly wobbly thing.
You could, however, still composite it in Chromanator, it just might take longer and require some manual work. The point of using a blue/greenscreen is to make the process quick and easy, rather than having to manually isolate elements of the shot - but you can't expect an automatic system to work properly if the raw footage contains so much random noise.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:42pm
Post 27 of 30
One thing you'll notice is that our green screen is very green even if it goes bright and dark. Your blue is not only light and dark but also not that blue.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:48pm
Post 28 of 30
All right, so I suppose the proble is that I had textured 'screen'.
What's your solution to material? That was a blue sheet
Previously I tried with trash bags, but it was even worse
And now I will have a lot of work correcting those frames....
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 5:50pm
Post 29 of 30
Green cotton fabric. Use greenscreen with miniDV, not bluescreen.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 6:38pm
Post 30 of 30