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What type of camera?

Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 7:58pm

Post 1 of 39

anonymous

Hey guys. Ive just started saving up to get myself a nice new camera. biggrin . I currently am using a small gr-dvl517 retail home video camera, made by jvc. What i want to know, is what camera i should move up to? I have heard good things about the sony pd-150, and i was generally satisfied with it when i used one. is the sony pd-150 a good choice? I am trying to get the best for my money (obviously) which is in the $3000 range (if i can save that much). If there are better cameras for less, that would be great. What should i get? got any opinions or ideas?
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 8:52pm

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Amadeus0

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Dude, if you can get a PD-150 for $3,000 new, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE.

As for cameras (in general), the first thing you need to look at are the CCD sizes. Bigger is better. Then form factor/weight. If you need a camera that sits on your shoulder, then that will limit your choices (and generally be more expensive.)

Next is the glass. Good glass is important, esp. if you want to do lots of racks, and zooms. The Cannon GL (and the default XL1 lens) had horrible issues in this regard. You would zoom in on something, get your focus, then if you zoomed out, the lens loses it focus. Unacceptable for zooms, and racks.

Also sometimes people forget about the hidden cost of buying a camera. Extended warranty, lens paper, lens filters, tripod, batteries. That's just for the Camera! What about lights, shims, gels...(well I could on and on, but you get the point.)

Anyway for your budget, I'd say a Sony VX2000 (see if you can get one used, you might save a bundle), UV Filter (to protect the lens), and look into getting a good tripod with wheels.

Also remember that repairing a prosumer/professional camera costs a good deal of money for most people. If you plan on using the camera as a deck, DON'T. Buy a really cheap camera (under $500), or if you can afford up front get a good deck (the GVD series from Sony is very good.)

Hope this helps, if you need more info ask away...
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:10pm

Post 3 of 39

anonymous

Hmmmm... interesting. ya, i cant find a sony pd-150 for $3000 i can find em for like $3400, but thats about it. is the pd-150 a good camera? and how does it differ from the sony vx2000 that you suggested? pros and cons? thanks!
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:30pm

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Amadeus0

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The PD-150 is shaped a little differently. The glass, and the CCD's are the same. The PD-150 supports mini-DVCAM (which for you isn't a big deal one way or the other.) The only real difference that I know about is the knee on the VX2000 is a little off, but it's not something that will get you in trouble unless you like shooting scenes of mostly black, with those blacks being different shades (i.e black-on-black.)
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:33pm

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Joshua Davies

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For quality I would go for a Canon XM2/GL2. The footage I've seen off the VX2000 and XL1S isn't as good. It really depends what you want to do with the camera, but here at CSB we like the XM2/GL2 over just about everything else before you get in to DVCPRO.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 9:49pm

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cantaclaro

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http://www.bwayphoto.com/product.asp?item=Sndsrpd150a&l=google

PD150 for under $3000

But I think that camera sux...you would be better off going and getting a GL2...New/or Used you are gonna be far happier using this camera than any others...

Canta unsure
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:15pm

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Amadeus0

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The CCD's on the Canon cameras (all of them) have red bleed issues that the Sony CCDs don't have (the Sony ccd tend to look blue, while the Cannon look red/yellow, which becomes a problem when you shoot red.) The glass is much better on the VX then the GL1.

The only area the GL1 is better in (specs. wise, and including my own experence with these different cameras) would be the viewfinder. The LCD on the VX2000 isn't good. Use the ENG viewfinder. If you do that you wont have any problems.

The GL2 I haven't used. Nor do I know anybody with one (GL1, VX2000, XL1,Various Panasonic DVCPRO, various pro sony models inc.. D-30, D-50, DSR-250a, JVC-D500...and a few others.) So I can't say about the GL2 in comparsion to the VX2000, and the same for the XM (anyone know if the GL2 has the same glass as the GL1, and anyone have a link on this XM camera?)

If the GL2 has the same glass as the GL1 then I'd say don't get a GL2. If they fixed the focus issue, then it might be a good camera for you. I still don't like the picture output (it's too reddish), but that's more a personl preference.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:31pm

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Joshua Davies

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The XM2/GL2 is better than the XM1/GL1 and XL1S on just about every level, appart from the changeable lens on the XL1.

The VX2000 does have better low light capture, but for average light and high light levels the XM2 does a better job. I know quite a few people with XM2s and a few that have moved from VX2000 and XL1S systems to the XM2 because of the great general quality.

It was so good we even put our own money in to one smile
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:34pm

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Coureur de Bois

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The Canon GL lines' Flourite lens is the best prosumer lens currently available.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:42pm

Post 10 of 39

Amadeus0

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Well it's good to hear that the XM2 is a good camera. I'll go looking for info on it. I'll try to see if I can get my hands on one to try out.

(Can't wait for the HD cameras to come in...Ikegami w/52x lens...Mmmmmmm, you could shoot red all day long, and not a drop of bleeding...Now comping HD with Alam DV should be fun... smile ...Where's MY ALAMDV CODE??? Arggh...)
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:44pm

Post 11 of 39

anonymous

hmmm... ok, so if i am going to buy one of these fabulas cameras, which one is the best over all? (seeing as how they are all better than what i have). I am hearing good things and bad about the pd-150. Same with the Gl2. So which is the best, overal?
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 10:47pm

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Coureur de Bois

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I don't think you'll be dissapointed in any 3CCD cam, but I am kinda biased towards the Gl-2(XM-2). It is truly an excellent cam, theres absolutley nothing I can complain about with my Gl-2.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 11:06pm

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Amadeus0

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The easy answer is "Try them both out." Goto a local professional camera shop, have them bring both cameras out, and try using them/handling them/shooting with them (try to shoot what ever it is you'd like to shoot if really had the camera. Of course doing that in a store will be kinda hard.) If need be, try renting both of them for a couple of days (at separate times of course.)

That is the only way to see which one will fit the bill.

Last edited Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 1:38am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 11:12pm

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Mellifluous

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Okay, just to balance it out a bit, the PD 150 does not suck.

If it did, then no one would buy it. If it did, the BBC wouldn't use it for shoots requiring portability.

I advise trying it out before you decide not to buy it, at $3000 it is a snip.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Nov 2003, 11:38pm

Post 15 of 39

anonymous

Which camera (pd-150/gl2) has the best picture quality?
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 12:16am

Post 16 of 39

Amadeus0

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PD-150. But unless you need mini-DVCAM, the VX2000 would save you some money. But if you have your heart set on a PD-150, you'll be fine. It seems like you could do better, but you could do worse.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 2:59am

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Aculag

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Personally, I don't like the PD-150. I have only used it for a little while, but I felt like it was too light. I like a camera with some weight to it. That's a personal preference, though. One thing I liked about the PD-150 is the microphone and audio setup.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 3:00am

Post 18 of 39

anonymous

Ok, so the pd-150 is ok? better than the gl2?
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 3:29am

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Amadeus0

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I agree on the "too light" part.

Wilco GO AND TEST THEM! that's the only way to find out if it fits your needs. (Also you might want to read up on some reviews. www.dv.com is the first site that comes to mind.)
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 5:46am

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Aculag

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That's true. You can't really learn if it's good for you unless you try it out.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 6:20am

Post 21 of 39

anonymous

Uhhh... i dont really know any places around here that let you try out nice cameras....If i go to bestbuy, they will let you play with the cameras... but none of them are nice like these....hmmm
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 6:21am

Post 22 of 39

anonymous

I dont know of any "Camera Shops" that do this either.... ughh
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 9:20am

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Mellifluous

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Go into a shop that sells video cameras & ask for them to order one in for you to look at. Emphasise that you want to just look at the camera to see if it suits you, & then you can just say you don't think it's right for you.

In the UK, Jessops have ordered cameras for me to just try before I buy, no trouble at all.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 2:24pm

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Ichi The Killer

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Ok, I haven't read all the reviews here so if I repeat anything that you guys have said i'm sorry.

Firstly I have to say that in my opinion there are only two cameras worth buying in the catagory stated... The first being the PD150 due to the fact it can support both mini DV and Standard DV (you get a longer lasting and crisper image with standard because the tape is physicaly bigger) plus it has 3 CCD chips etc... It's a very good camera and renowned as the British TV standard.

Secondly I would recomend Canons XL1s and while it only supports Mini DV it does have a superb interchangable lense system and like the PD150 has a 3 CCD chipset. So depending on how seriously you take film making i.e. do you need to change lenses etc... I can recomend both cameras from first hand experience. The only downside I can think of is that the XL1s gets fairly uncomfortable when doing a lot of free hand (on the shoulder) type work but other than that it is an excellent camera.

...Plus the XL1s was used to shoot "28 days later" and that turned out very well.

smile
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 3:41pm

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Amadeus0

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The PD-150 does NOT support standard/Large DV tapes. It does support Mini-DVCAM tapes. In fact from what I recall the PD-150 doesn't even support MiniDV recording. Also where does this misinformation about Bigger tapes=Better picture come from?

MiniDV, LargeDV use oxide tapes at a track pitch of 7 microns. It doesn't matter if the tape is large/standard or mini. It records the same info on the tape. The only difference is the larger housing allows for more tape to be stored (i.e. larger case=more room to store tape.)

AND before ANYONE says that DVCAM gives you a better picture then MiniDV, let me kill that one here as well. IT IS NOT TRUE! DV & DVCAM store footage at 5:1 intraframe compression, with a 4:1:1 color space. Both use the same compression scheme. The ONLY difference (of any note) is that DVCAM tapes are made Metal Particle (which allows a tape to hold up better under multiple passes) and the tape passes the head 50% faster, which allows for a track pitch of 15 microns (giving you more room for avoiding possible playback/recording issues when the heads are off.)

As for a Pro camera shop: Where are you located? Maybe I can help you find a place.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 4:27pm

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streetsk8erdc

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if u have 3000 dollars...get a panasonic dvx-100 ....theres no contest..its the best camera out of all the ones everyone listed...it shoots 24p which none of the other cameras can do and the camera quality is great...
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2003, 9:03pm

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Aculag

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That could be true, however that camera hasn't been out very long, and I'd rather wait to hear a lot of reviews/testimonials about it. I have a friend who's looking into buying one, and I told her the same thing. But then again, she's also used one, so that brings us back to the thing about using it first before you decide...
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 1:40am

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wdy

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Well i've been saving up for some time now...and with all the research and price range I want I am still going for the Canon GL-2. I've heard many great things from it and Orion owns one so it make it that much better wink heh...anways The Canon GL-2 is a perfect camera and now a days its getting cheaper and cheaper...i'm thinking of purchasing mine from bwayphoto.com its about $1989.00 US.

By the way there's has been much gossip over time about what camera to buy on the forums...so check out some of those posts too....probably get about the same information..

Last edited Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 2:00am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 1:53am

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AndrewtheActorMan

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As long as the camera as a viewable video out put, it dont matter what camera!!!! ITS THE CONTENT THAT COUNTS!!!! STORY, PLOT, CHARACTERS, MOOD, ATMOSPHERE, W/E!!
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 2:16am

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Pooky

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I like the JVC SJ GSDJA-21950... or maybe the Sony neoplex handycam recorder g-49487. They both have intermedital switching and intenate drives, though the SJ GSDJA-21950 is a NSJD camera while the g-49487 is a PJY.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 2:25am

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Magic_man12

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DVX-100 is AWESOME

i use it all the time for school - can sign em out for weekends at a time winkwink


Definately worth it tho! GREAT cam

-MAGIC
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 2:46am

Post 32 of 39

anonymous

Ok...... now there is a third camera in the decision. haha. I live in Phoenix Arizona. I dont know of any camera shops that let you try out such nice cameras. In fact, ive never even seen any of these cameras in a store here frown . Ive only looked at them online, and used the pd-150 for a brief moment in film class. You guys have given me alot of great info, but i still seriously have no clue which one is the best. I know it doesnt make a huuuge difference which one of these i pick, but I really wanna get the best for my money. hmmmm.... any more ideas?
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 3:16am

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streetsk8erdc

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most professional camera available in your price range is canon xl1s..but it is very expensive to take full advantage of...the best quality and best features camera is the dvx-100......gl2 is good for the price but not nearly as good as dvx-100......and theyre is also a HDV camera out from JVC that has the best resolution and picture quality out of the 3 cameras but its hard to edit the footage right now because no editing programs support it unless you buy certian things which cost around 1500 dollars....but if it was up to me...i would defintly go dvx-100
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 4:15am

Post 34 of 39

anonymous

Can anyone give me some info on the dvx-100? What company makes it? how does it compare to the other cameras? and why havent i heard alot about it before? etc... thanks
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 12:29pm

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Pooky

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Panasonic AG-DVX100
1/3" 3-CCD 24P DV Cinema Camera

U.S. List Price: $3,795.00





Features

1/3" 3-CCD Mini-DV camcorder with exclusive CineSwitch™ technology.

Outstanding sensitivity: F11 @2000 lux, min illumination: 3 lux (at +18dB).

Supports 480i/60 (NTSC), Cinema-style 480p/24fps, and 480p/30fps image capture.

Precision wide-angle Lens with Servo/Manual Zoom (with stops & barrel markings).

Auto/Manual Focus f1.6 with 72mm filter size. Advanced optical image stabilization.

Conventional 4:3 aspect ratio and 16:9 letterbox image capture modes.

Conventional video gamma and Cine-like Gamma operational modes.

2-ch. XLR audio inputs with phantom power supply (48V) and manual audio levels.


Large centrally located pivoting electronic viewfinder usable for left or right eye.


Flip-out 270° 3.5" LCD panel with superimposed audio metering on both LCD & EVF.


Six Scene Files and Two User Sets.


S-Video, Video & Stereo Audio IN & OUT.


IEEE-1394 FireWire™ interface (in/out) for transfer of digital video/audio to NLE platforms.


Interval (Time Lapse) recording with adjustable record duration and interval time.


Unique pre-cleaning heads and auto head cleaning to maximize reliability.


Well balanced and highly portable: 4.4 pounds in full operating condition.


http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/cams_ccorders/f_ag-dvx100.html
http://www.epinions.com/Panasonic_AG_DVX100_Professional_Digital_Camcorder_Camcorders/display_~reviews
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 1:54pm

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Coureur de Bois

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AndrewtheActorMan wrote:

As long as the camera as a viewable video out put, it dont matter what camera!!!! ITS THE CONTENT THAT COUNTS!!!! STORY, PLOT, CHARACTERS, MOOD, ATMOSPHERE, W/E!!
Don't be getting smart with us Andrew. If sure he has though about things, and if he wants a nice 3 CCD cam, the least we can do is help.

btw... People use camera for other puposes than Independent Fiction Films. The choice of camera is a big factor for, say, professionally shooting a wedding. I'd like to see your, "It doesn't matter what camera you have," theory work when you are trying to sell you services, lets say for $3000 a wedding, when you are using a Sony Hi8 Hanycam.
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 6:44pm

Post 37 of 39

anonymous

Hahaha, good point Orion. razz . Now that i see the picture, i have seen the dvx-100. Ive never used one, but i heard there were problems with the focus ring on it. I read somewhere that the ring doesnt stop turning or something, and it easily goes out of focus. I dont know, anybody know anything about it? or have anymore camera related things to say? to keep this post going? biggrin
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2003, 6:47pm

Post 38 of 39

anonymous

Oh ya, i looked in the yellow pages to find a camera shop here in phoenix. I found Camera repair, and that kinda thing. But no camera shop with video cameras to try out, or look at (best buy, circuit city, frys electronics. They all let you look, but they dont have "nice" cameras).
Posted: Fri, 14th Nov 2003, 1:54am

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Amadeus0

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http://www.acecam.com/srindex.html

Scroll down to Arizona. Try a few of these places for starters.

EDIT: Oh yeah. You don't want to look under "Camera", you want to look under "Video equipment", "Broadcast equipment" and "Video dealers."