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that hollywood movie look..

Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 5:30pm

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elementcinema

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Hey,i was wondering if any of you could help me out in making a finished movie look more like a "hollywood" movie? i noticed that "neighbours" (here at fxhome cinema) had that distinct look to it. When you watch those common fan films, you notice that its not the same quality as hollwood movies. I need that look..any exporting tips, any programs, codecs anything!?!? Im so lost here.. confused
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 5:53pm

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anonymous

Discreets' combustion has a filter called "Movie Color", im not sure if it is what you want, but it gives you a slight movie look.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 5:55pm

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TMM

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wait a while and DigiGrade will available from FXHome!

TMM twisted
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 5:59pm

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rmw

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I posted that, forgot to log in. But I suggest you try that.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 6:25pm

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wpl

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Rating: +2

thy this
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 6:42pm

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TAP2

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I still don't get it...

are they saying that if you add motion blur to progressive 25fps, it looks just as smooth as 25fps deinterlaced.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 6:54pm

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anonymous

If you have $1000 and Adobe After Effects, you can get the Magic Bullet Suite that converts your DV to 24P (via true 3:2 pulldown algorithms) and has a plethora of "hollywood movie" filters.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 7:03pm

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TAP2

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Yeah - I've heard nothing but good things about Magic Bullet.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 7:31pm

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neo_man89

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Get BigFX FilmFX plugin for Adobe Premiere.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 8:12pm

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jstow222

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TMM wrote:

wait a while and DigiGrade will available from FXHome!

TMM twisted
yes, I know that csb is putting out some great software, but its kind of annoying how everyone's answer to everything is a csb digital product, yes, they are awsome and powerful, but digigrade isnt even out yet, and this guy needs help now.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 8:26pm

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Magic_man12

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No man - everyone can wait a year to finnish their projects!

-MAGIC
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 10:10pm

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JohnCarter

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If you are on a Mac platform with Final Cut Pro, www.nattress.com has film effects plugins that beat the tar out of Magic Bullet for a fraction of the price!
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 10:21pm

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TAP2

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Guys listen... You're all suggesting these filters that cost all this money, and all these random programmes. OK, yes some of them are good at it but if you use your brain - it's easy to acheive a colour effect.
Firstly, there is a HUGE difference between Digital Grading, and simply applying a filter to a film.

Here's my recipe for creating a halogen blue, terminator 2 style clip -
25% Black & White
+25% Darker
+35-40% Blue C Correction
+ 5% Green C Correction

Where as in indoor scenes, I may add 10% Orange - depending on the location and feeling of the film.

But to be honest, the KEY thing to removing the amateur style is
a black and white filter. If you add a 20% Black And White filter, it'll look a thousand times better.


All I'm saying is experiment more, and USE YOUR BRAIN. I'm definitely no pro at making films - but I experiment all the time and I allways usually get the desired results (sometimes with the help of fxhomer's)
Good Luck...
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 10:51pm

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Andreas

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well thoose settings would all depend on how the sourounding is like!
this is what I used for some outdoors scenes:

Brightness: -5.8%
Contrast: + 9.1%

Color Balance:
R: +10%
G: -5%
B: -11%

Blur: +2%

and it came out looking like this
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 10:55pm

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Ben

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Hope this isn't too much effort, and if it is no probs, but could you show an example of how a black and white filter can improve a shot? And do you know if it's possible in premiere? Thanks for anymore help you can give.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 10:55pm

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TAP2

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Yep - and a very slightly blur also makes it look better too.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 11:03pm

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Pooky

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Hey TAP2, just wondering, you use AE right? If so, what effects do you use?
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2003, 11:09pm

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TAP2

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To be honest, all I use AE for is cloning, and I played about with it to get the dead city shot (see 'Result Of HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?') It is indeed very powerful, IF you know how to use it.

I mainly use -
Vegas Video 4
Ulead Media Studio Pro 7
for doing all the basic editing, obviously complicated shots require the use of other programmes.

When I say 'BLACK AND WHITE' don't immediately picture your film becoming black and white, try to think of it as 'lowering the saturation'
The reason why it looks more like a film is because, consumer video cams pick up far too many colours which gives a weird look. If you bring these colours down a bit you'll notice the improvement.


LOOK AT SOLTHAR'S THREAD for a GREAT example of colour reduction.
http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37399#37399
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 1:27am

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Axeman

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I think you guys are workig too hard at curing the symptoms rather than the illness.

Even with an inexpensive or low-quality camcorder, lighting the scene properly makes all the difference in the world. You can do quite a bit with color correction and grading and deinterlacing and blurring, but if the original footage is not lit properly, you will never get it quite right. You might get real close to a film-look, but what you really need is to light it properly first, THENN adjust the color.

Also, DO NOT use zooms in your shot, avoid fast pans, and keep your shutter speed at 1/60, and turn the sharpening and digital gain (db) off. Also, if you want a film-look, don't try shooting hand-held. Even a hand-held shot on film does not jitter around like a camcorder will, because it weighs ten times as much. Stabilize your camera.

Once you have shot your scenes properly, then you can adjust the color to suit your needs or style, in whatever program you have. These are all things that will help no matter what camera you are using.

That said, if you have some money, there is no better step you can take toward getting a film look than picking up a Panasonic DVX100 and shooting in actual 24p. Also, If you can afford Magic Bullet, it does amazing things, if you take the time to learn how to use it. It has a steep learning curve, but really the de-interlacing portion of Magic Bullet is only the tip of the iceberg. When you use the Look Suite portion to adjust your color and contrast and saturation and add diffusion and a myriad of other adjustments you can make, the results are phenomenal.

Or wait for DigiGrade. I don't know yet how it compares yet, but it is definitely cheaper.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 1:51am

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Gibs

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Axeman, when you said not to use zooms or fast pans, I'm assuming you mean after you take into consideration what type of shot you are doing. For example, a fast pan works fine and is used frequently in action scenes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't make sense to say "never do this", or something of that nature.

Anyways, if you don't have After Effects or a program like that, use Virtual Dub. Not only can it deinterlace, but it can also do basic color correcting like levels adjustments and hue lightness saturation. Hope this helps.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 3:03am

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elementcinema

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You guys are great! thanks alot!! all these tips are perfect! ive tried bringing down the sat. and adjusting the colors and it looks great!
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 3:21am

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cantaclaro

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Magic Bullet doesn't really have a steep learning curve...5 clicks of the mouse and you are done...It is the rendering that is painful...6 hours for 1 minute of footage...give me a freakin' break...

Canta unsure
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 3:53am

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JohnCarter

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As I said before, on a Mac system, with Final Cut Pro, G Film effects beats the crap out of Magic Bullet - including render times - and the final look is amazing. And you can't beat the price.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 6:11am

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cantaclaro

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I don't agree John...I have been an FCP user for the last few years...and have tried all manners of "Film Look" plugins and packages...Though Magic Bullet may be expensive and have slow rendering times those are my only gripes...The quality is amazing even if you just deinterlace...I tried those plugins that you recommended and found them to be quite clunky and difficult to fiddle with...Maybe I don't know how to work'em but I didn't think the quality was up to MB caliber...

Canta unsure
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 10:53am

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TAP2

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Can someone answer this, no 'it depends' biggrin

Should one shoot their amateur films at 1/50 shutter speed OR 1/200?
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 5:58pm

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Gibs

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I would assume you would want to shoot with the standard 1/50th. However, I recommend doing some test footage with both to see which you think looks better.

Also, if you're doing an action scene, the quicker shutter speed might be better because it has less motion blur.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 7:38pm

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JohnCarter

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cantaclaro wrote:

I don't agree John...I have been an FCP user for the last few years...and have tried all manners of "Film Look" plugins and packages...Though Magic Bullet may be expensive and have slow rendering times those are my only gripes...The quality is amazing even if you just deinterlace...I tried those plugins that you recommended and found them to be quite clunky and difficult to fiddle with...Maybe I don't know how to work'em but I didn't think the quality was up to MB caliber...

Canta unsure
I'm surprised you'd say that, Canta. The G film effects plugins are very easy to use - they come with all sorts of presets. I have used both MB and those and I found that Film Effects gives a better look. The De-interlace filter in Film Effects creates a very convincing 3:2 pulldown simulation (an artefact that happens when you transfer film to video) not to mention the definite advantage of being able to do everything in your NLE and at a fraction of the render time and not to forget the cost!

But as they say, different strokes for different folks! wink
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 10:14pm

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Andreas

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oh by the way, I think i got a pretty good look filming today by just lighten it right and do some settings on my camera! nothing done in post!
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 10:45pm

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TAP2

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Yeah that looks good...
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 10:53pm

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Axeman

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Lloyd66 wrote:

Axeman, when you said not to use zooms or fast pans, I'm assuming you mean after you take into consideration what type of shot you are doing. For example, a fast pan works fine and is used frequently in action scenes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't make sense to say "never do this", or something of that nature.
When I said never use zooms or fast pans, what I meant was: "In my opinion, you should NEVER use zooms or fast pans if you are trying the get a film look."

Obviously, there are no rules in filmmaking which have no exceptions. Filmmaking as an art is all about doing things that have never been done before, and independant filmmaking especially requires finding new, easier, and cheaper ways of getting the results you want. So I definitely think that every filmmaker should try new things and experiment with new idea. And if you get it to work, then by all means, use it (even zooms or fast pans).

But in my experience, few things say "home video" like a zoom in the middle of your movie. In film, with very, very few exceptions, they dolly, not zoom. And as far as the panning, you might be able to get away with it if you are using a DVX100 shooting 24p, but when shooting interlaced video, you will not get a film look from a fast pan.

But as another general rule: NEVER consider any rule of filmmaking, no matter who it comes from, to be the law. If you can break the rule and it works, then break the rule.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2003, 11:01pm

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Axeman

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cantaclaro wrote:

Magic Bullet doesn't really have a steep learning curve...5 clicks of the mouse and you are done...It is the rendering that is painful...6 hours for 1 minute of footage...give me a freakin' break...
Sounds like you haven't started into the curve yet. smile If you only want to use the presets for adjusting color, and deinterlace your footage, then yeah it is easy.. To master your technique, so you are able to get any result you want, takes a bit of time to learn.

And as far as the render, in most cases you can set it to render in Draft quality and cut your render times by up to 75% without a noticeable loss of quality. If you are finaling your project onto film, then you should definitely go for Best quality, though.
Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2003, 1:54am

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elementcinema

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ok well about lighting your scenes..now would too much light be a good thing, because you can obviously take it off and it would be alot easier to brighten up your scene during the editing process..so..what kind of light are we talking when you light up a scene?
Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2003, 4:45am

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Axeman

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Unfortunately, lighting is far too complicated and subjective a process to give a simple explanation. Because the mood of a scene is set primarily by how it is lit, it has to vary a great deal, depending on what you are shooting.

But as far as the quantity of light, if at all possible, you want to avoid brightening the scene in the camera (most camcorders will have a digital gain control, measured in db, that does this). You can crank the gain way up to add brightness, but massive amounts of noise and artifacting in your footage come with it. In my opinion, the loss of quality is not acceptable. Also, you want to keep your shutter speed right around 1/60. So if your gain is at 0, and your shutter is at 1/60, and you still have enough light to make the scene look the way you want, then you should be OK.

I would recommend trying to get your hands on a lighting or cinematography book if you want more detailed info. they can be had quite cheapply on eBay or half.com. Kris Malkiewicz has a couple of pretty good books on the subject - one called Cinematography and one called Film Lighting. The cinematography one is a good place to start.[/i]
Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2003, 11:56am

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elementcinema

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thanks! i agree, lighting is too complicated..but i will definately look into those books
Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2003, 1:20pm

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TMM

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jstow222 wrote:

TMM wrote:

wait a while and DigiGrade will available from FXHome!

TMM twisted
yes, I know that csb is putting out some great software, but its kind of annoying how everyone's answer to everything is a csb digital product, yes, they are awsome and powerful, but digigrade isnt even out yet, and this guy needs help now.
If that is the case, it sounds like a lot of you are rushing your productions. It would probably be best to try everything out and see which you personally can get the best effect with, rather than wanting to do it NOW! I mean, with the release of chromanator imminent, i doubt it'll be too long before DigiGrade is released, it takes film makers years to do half the films that are out in commercial cinemas, so a couple of months won't hurt, and the more time u spend on your film, to make it perfect, the more chance you'll have of it getting to no. 1 wink

And in response to the thread, unless it's already been posted, try looking through the Ultimate FAQ post, that might help you dig up some information or software:

http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9577

TMM twisted
Posted: Sun, 21st Dec 2003, 8:06pm

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jstow222

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For the AE user I found this: http://thepluginsite.com/products/harrysfilters/index.htm

And Im pretty sure its free!
Posted: Mon, 22nd Dec 2003, 4:19pm

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Tobbger

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Does anyone know any filter like BigFX FilmFX but for Final Cut Pro and not Premiere? neutral
Posted: Mon, 22nd Dec 2003, 4:22pm

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Pooky

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Yes JohnCarter posted a link earlier in this post: www.nattress.com
Posted: Mon, 22nd Dec 2003, 4:31pm

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pboniface

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sorry, an example of how black and white can improve a shot ?

well, it all really depends on what you are trying to achieve from your shot in the first place..

As an example.. Hmmm, Take "The Elephant Man" it was made in 1980 and yet is entirely black and white as this conjures up images of victorian London.

The Wizard of Oz.. all of the scenes set in Oz are in vibrant primary technicolour, all of the scenes of Dorothy's dull monotonous home life are in black and white..

Minority report.. up in the heights of town everything is bright, shiny and new, down in the depths everything is dark blues greys and blacks...

Black and white will not "improve" your shot, but under the right circumstances will aid in your storytelling, and that is what it really is all about.

Yes, Premiere has plugins that can give you black and white and premiere pro has full colour grading facilities.. but as this is a CSB forum... Digigrade will, when it is released, provide this facility for you as well (I guess)