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RealTime FX Cards for Avid Xpress Pro and PPRO???

Posted: Fri, 26th Dec 2003, 6:17am

Post 1 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Hi everyone,

I am building a computer just for editing purposes. I am using borth Avid Xpress Pro and Premiere Pro. And i am looking for a real time effects card that can support both applications. So far, i've noticed Canopus DVStorm2, Matrox RTX100, and Avid Mojo. I am still wondering which one of those 3 support realtime on both Premiere Pro AND Avid Xpress Pro? Please Advice. Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 26th Dec 2003, 6:53pm

Post 2 of 124

anonymous

I know the Matrox will support PPro for sure. I think Canopus does as well. However, as far as Avid Xpress Pro is concerned, I think only the DNA Mojo works for that [but that's my guess]
Posted: Sat, 27th Dec 2003, 2:47am

Post 3 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Thanks Jambalaya!

I just did a research, and yea, I think you're right.

Btw, i have another question though. Let say we have 2 exactly system, one has Matrox, and the other has Canopus. Which one can give you more layers and effects and still maintain the real time preview? Another words, which cards is better, Matrox or Canopus? Please advice. Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 27th Dec 2003, 7:07pm

Post 4 of 124

anonymous

As far as I can tell, I believe the Matrox card is better. I've worked with the 100 series Matrox card on Premiere 6.5: very nice package. However, unless you're doing 10+ effects on the same clip, I don't think it will matter.
Besides, effects-intensive video is usually dropped into After Effects (you get more power there option wise).
So, I'd lean more Matrox, but probably going by price would be the wisest choice.
Posted: Sat, 27th Dec 2003, 9:08pm

Post 5 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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The Canopus card will give you more real-time stuff (of course how much depends on your CPUs, but it's the same problem the Matrox card faces.) BUT The canopus card is much more picky about which hardware you can use with it. Add on that it costs more (last time I checked), and it might make for a worse card for you to buy.

The Matrox RTx.100 Xtreme is a good card (built 2 systems based on it), so I can say that's it an ok card, but only ok.

Mojo...haven't had any experience with it. As for a card that Hardware Accelarates Premiere Pro, AND Avid Xpress...Doesn't exist.

Really for the money I'd just upgrade your RAM/CPU/Storage, and maybe pick-up some other piece of software that you might need.

What are your system specs?
Posted: Sun, 28th Dec 2003, 6:04am

Post 6 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Thanks guys for your info!!!

I do have another question though. Is it true that the realtime cards are only real time with their own filters and effects? I mean is there anyways we can choose Filters and Effects of PREMIERE and still get realtime?
One more thing, what does the break out box (rack) that's included in the bundle with DVStorm do?


Amadeus0, my specs are:

P4 3.0 GHz 800 FSB
1 gb of ram
Windows XP
Premiere Pro and Avid Pro
40 GB HD for windows and appz
200 GB HD for storage


I am still deciding on what motherboard and graphic cards to buy since i need to know which capture cards (canopus or matrox) i am gonna buy first.


Anyways, please help on my questions. Thanks.
Posted: Mon, 29th Dec 2003, 12:53am

Post 7 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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"Only realtime with their own...?"

It depends. The Matrox card for example will hardware accelerate most Premiere transitions, and any that it doesn't Matrox provides a much better version of said transition. I don't about remember the Canopus card. As for filters...basically they only accelerate their own filters.

I guess you mean the "breakout box" that installs in a drive bay. It provides you with a way to access the ports on the back of the card without having to go to the back of your computer everytime. It also has a couple of other benefits. I'd recommend that IF YOU GET the Canopus to go ahead and get the breakout box.

Your CPU/FSB are fast enough. You have enough ram (although another Gig wouldn't hurt.) OS and Software are fine. System Hard drive is ok.

Storage. Do you have 1 200GB HD, or is your storage configured differently? When dealing with multiple streams of video/audio single hard drives don't cut it.

As for which card I would get. Assuming that you are Very comfortable building and troubleshooting stuff I would get the Canopus Card. Much higher quality breakout box, more video streams, more graphic streams, higher quality Codec. An all around better card, IF YOU CAN GET IT TO WORK CORRECTLY! That's the only caveat.

The Matrox card has a better set of Transitions, and filters to choose from, and I like the Matrox interface more, but it is at times a bit more buggy (and can be just as picky as the Canopus), and a lower quality hardware/codec. At the end of the day I would still go for a Canopus.

(NEVER EVER BUY Pinnacle.) But why get a realtime card anyway? If you can tell me about your motherboard I could see if it would work with either card. Also tell me more about your storage setup.
Posted: Mon, 29th Dec 2003, 5:23pm

Post 8 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Hi Amadeus0,

Thanks again for your info! I really appreciate it.

So, Canopus it is! I think i am gonna get that card. I hear many people say it's really hard to install and make that card work correctly, but have no ideas what makes it so difficult. Can you please explain? Thanks.

The motherboard that i am gonna get is the ASUS P4C800 DELUXE or the GigaByte GA-8IK1100. WHen i do the research, i was aiming for the Matrox card, that's why i chose ASUS. But now i think i have to do another research for the mobo that works with Canopus. Any recommendations?

About the "breakout box", is it included or is it more to get that box?

About the storage, I won't partition any drives. Just use as it is. However, i am planing to set up raid for the drives use for storing video footages. But have no experience in it at all. WHat type of drives is used to setup for Raid 0? How you configure it? Please help me on this. Thanks alot.
Posted: Tue, 30th Dec 2003, 9:07am

Post 9 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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First some links:

http://www.canopus.us/Index_US.asp

This is the Canopus USA website (If you're in England please forgive my error.) This is the starting point for all your Canopus info/needs.

http://forum.canopus.com/ubbthreads.php

These are the forums. You have to register to be able to have acces to the more useful places. This is the place you need to hang-out at/ask questions so you can find out first hand what does and doesn't work. Remember: The search function is your friend.

I haven't seen either MB on the list (although I seem to recall the Asus being somewhere on the website.) It seems that both MB are based on the Intel875 chipset, which should be a smooth go. Another benefit is that both the Matrox and Canopus will work with the Asus MB.

As for storage...I guess you have only 1-200GB HD. Simply get another that is the same make/model and make both masters on their respective command chains (I'm assuming that we're talking about PATA, with SATA you don't even have to worry about that.) If you have XP Pro then you can stripe the drives together in a Software based RAID-0. (If you get the Asus MB I seem to recall that it comes with onboard SATA-RAID support, and if you already have a SATA drive, or are planning on buying SATA drives you can use the onboard RAID to make things even simplier.) Do remember that when you stripe the drives together you will lose the data that's on them, so make sure to back-up your stuff before you do that.

Doing it is pretty simple. The only real complications involve me trying to explain the many possible ways to acheive the desired results (i.e. a RAID0 setup.) After you get the MB, drives and cables it'll be very simple to describe how-to build your RAID.

A good website for RAID information:
http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html
(Shoot I can't seem to find the best website link that I had.)

My best advice:
Most cards don't work (or work well) with Premiere Pro. Both RTX.100 systems I've worked on are still having lock-up issues, and the Canopus cards don't really work well with PPro either. Both are working on the problem, and at the end of the day I'd go with Canopus (more video streams and graphic streams), but at this point in time everything is still kinda up in th air. So I'd really just keep your current system, save your money, and later on (after all this Premiere Pro stuff has calmed down) buy a new system with the money that you saved up. You'll end up getting a lot more technology for the same money, and you'll know what does and doesn't work with your card of choice.

If you're looking for something in paticular (such as the need for analog in/out or something like that I'd just recommend that you get something like the Sony DMAC-150 to convert all your footage to Digital) please let me know. If you still plan on getting such a RT card then please let me know as well.
Posted: Wed, 31st Dec 2003, 6:25am

Post 10 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

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Hi Amadeus0, thanks a lot for your links! I'll check it out soon.

There's many reasons why i want to get a realtime card. But the most recent one is that I just got hired as an editor for a wedding studio. They didn't pay much, but I hope I'll get good experiences and connections if i work well here. At this studio, they use Canopus card, and they seem to have problem opening the projects i work on my system at home, which doesn't have Canopus codec. So, getting a Canopus card for my system at home might help to solve this. Also, they ask me to provide them one complete 2-hour project everyday, which seems to be hard if i dont' have a more powerful system with some RT transitions and filters.

And here's some other questions of my.

Is the Canopus Card really that bad in working with PPRO? What's u mean by "lock-up issues"? The system freezes alot? The guy at work says that card is not good with PPRO too, but what is wrong with it?
When it comes to hard drive configuration, I know very little. So please forgive me if these questions are stupid. I know there's a certain type of Serial ATA hard drives, but what is PATA? Also, I know that in Raid 0, we use 2 drives to share the files. However, what type of drives we need to buy for Raid? I mean, can we use normal drives? So, if i want 250 gb usable space, i need to buy two 250 gb drives?
Btw, what do you mean by "stripe the drives together"?


Anyways, Sorry for throwing at you whole bunch of questions, and thanks for helping and reading my thread! I really appriciate it. Your inputs are very useful for me.
Posted: Wed, 31st Dec 2003, 9:49pm

Post 11 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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The links answer some of your questions about RAID, the others I will attempt answer.

Congrats on getting outsourced work from a studio. I hope they pay you well for the amount of work they're asking you to do. If you installed the Canopus Codec on your system (it's a free download -so have them download it and give you a copy), and setup a profile that uses the same settings as their system you'll find that alot of your issues will go away.

With the amount of work they're asking you to put out, the Canopus is the way to go.

As for Premiere Pro and various real-time cards: Adobe (basically) did a complete re-write of Premiere and changed A LOT of things. Now every program/hardware device that wants to interact with Premiere Pro needs to be completely re-written. In addition to that all the previous work/experience these programmers have with Premiere gets thrown out the window (i.e. when upgrading their drivers from 5.1c to 6.0 they really didn't have to do much and the same is true when they went from 6.0 to 6.5, but Premiere Pro -7.0- is very different. When something like this happens all that time spent working on improving the drivers goes out the window and you basically have to start from scratch. Considering it took Matrox about 2-3 years to get it's act together with Premiere 5.1-6.5 when using their RT2x00 series card, I'd expect it to take a few months to a couple of years to get the bugs worked out when dealing with Premiere Pro.)

With the Matrox card (RTX.100) it tends to lock-up, as in Hard lock. You need to hit reset on the front of the computer case. Now before anyone jumps on and says "The system isn't configured right!" I submit the following data: The system in question works fine with Premiere 6.0, 6.5 and 7.0 without the Matrox card. With the RTX.100 6.0 and 6.5 work beautifully. It's only when you put 7.0 AND the card together that problems come up. I recommend that you check the Canopus forums for more detailed info about the Storm2 issues, it's not very pretty. Good news is that they think they've solved some of the problems and will/should release a patch in the first quarter to fix some of these issues. If you can stick to Premiere 6.5 you really wont have many issues, and when they fix the problems (they being any company), you can install the drivers for Premiere Pro, and start using it then.

Hard Drives:
PATA = Paralel ATA. This is the old 40-pin/80 strand standard.
SATA = Serial ATA. This is the new 7-pin standard. There is currently only 1 type of SATA drive. SATA 1.0 is the newest/current/only specification.
Stripe = When you setup hard drives in a RAID array the act of configuring those drives is called "Striping." So if you have 4 hard drives and want to make a RAID 5, when you tell the software/controller to make that RAID5 (or any other type of RAID) array and it starts up, that is to "Stripe" the drives (together.)

The 3rd link I posted has info on various types of RAID. You want all the drives to be the same type (e.g. SCSI-3/68-pin or PATA-133 or SATA, et etc.) The same size (if they aren't you'll lose out on hard drive space) and the same manufactor/model/speed/firmware. Doing anything else is asking for problems, losing out on space, and/or losing out on drive throughput (which I would think in your situtation is the most important thing.) You can use any type of drive in a RAID, just make them the same.

In your example you ask how to acheive 250GB of storage. If you're in a RAID0 (which I think is what you'll be using) then you need to get 2-125GB hard drives, and when you stripe them the "new drive" will be 250GB. If you wanted a RAID1, then you would need to get 2-250GB hard drives. If a RAID3/4/5 then 3-125GB hard drives. The 3rd link will give all the dirt you need to know about RAID.

Feel free to keep firing those questions, esp. if something doesn't make any sense.
Posted: Thu, 1st Jan 2004, 5:05am

Post 12 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Hi again Amadeus0,

I checked out the link about Raid. Now, I understand a little more. I think i'll configure my drives for Raid 0. So, what type of hard drives you recommend for running windows and for storing movies? I heard that Hitachi drives are good for runing windows. Do you think so? Also, Is western digital drives good for storing files? Or is it Maxtor?

I also checked the Canopus website for the compatible list. But all i see is the motherboard and cpu and memory info. So far, the asus card i posted above will work fine with Canopus. What i am trying to find out is that what graphic cards, sound cards, etc. are compatible with the Canopus card. I can't find it on the Canopus website. Also, i registered and tried to login at the Canopus site, but when i already logined. I can't go anywhere without it saying that "We cannot proceed. Password/login name not found" even though i am in my home page. I don't know why.

Anyways, i am planing on to get a video card that supports dual monitors and a tv out. Any suggestions? I checked out the matrox cards, but any sugestions on the canopus video cards?

One more thing, I am looking for what type of cases to buy. Any sugestions on what cases can keep the temperature down good? I heard the aluminum cases are good. What do you think?

About memory, many people suggest these memory:


Kingston 1GB PC4000 500MHz 2-64x64 HyperX Kingston DDR 184Pin
Kingston HyperX Series Dual Kits 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3500
Mushkin 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3500 Level II Dual Pack – Retail


Which one of those 3 are good for the ASUS i posted above? Is it worth it to go for PC4000 instead of PC3500? And what the differences between "Level II" and HyperX and HyperX Series? Thanks.


Sorry to ask bunch of questions again, but please get back to me. Thanks.
Posted: Thu, 1st Jan 2004, 7:55am

Post 13 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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I have some of questions first:
1. Are you upgrading your current system or building one from scratch?
2. How much are you looking to spend? (Overall, and just on system hardware.)
3. When do you think you'll purchase the parts? (i.e. NOW! wink , 1st quarter, after March 3rd...)
4. How many video streams and graphic stream do you think you'll be doing (on average)?
5. Have you seen the footage that this studio shoots? How many cameras do they use for a Wedding? Do they sync timecode if they use more then 1 camera?
6. Have you seen an edited project from these guys (in the price range that they're asking you to edit in)? If so do they use a lot of canned stuff, or do they create it (e.g. using PowerMusic trax & Jumpbacks as opposed to creating their own motion graphics)?

(The following info is assuming that you get a Canopus DVStorm, and the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe.)

Hard drives: Get 2 Serial ATA 7200rpm Hard drives. If you have the money, dont need a lot of space, and need to do more then 4 streams of Video (although if you do that many streams you'll tend to run out of hard drive space quickly) then get the 10,000rpm hard drives.

Hard drive Brands: I'd stay away from Hitachi for now (it's complicated.) Th Asus MB had come issues with Maxtor, but they should be corrected now. That said Western Digital would be the way to go. Western Digital is the faster of the two. Seagate is slow. IBM is out of the business so don't buy them. For your system drive PATA 7200rpm at least 40GB (with the current price curve for only a couple more dollars you could get a 80GB HD.)

Graphics cards: NVidia all the way. ATI in ok. Matrox is a no go. Canopus recommends NVidia based GeForce2 (or later) cards. You don't need TV-out (although any good NVidia card will give that to you), the Canopus card will do this for you.

Case: Given the size of the Motherboard (Full ATX), and the number of componets you're going to stuff in there, combined with the amount of heat being generated, I'd recommend getting a rackmount case.

http://www.dealsonic.com/skipbl19in4u.html?AID=10304335&PID=1406438

If that's not gonna work for you, then the best thing to do is go shopping (real-world or online), and look for one that will fit your motherboard, with a lot of space, fans (at least 4), and a good number of drive bays. What the case is made out of doesn't really matter, but Alum cases are lighter (something to consider if your going to be moving it often.)

Memory: Why get memory that runs at such high speeds? Unless you plan on overclocking (which you really shouldn't do in an editing system - although with the newer MBs supporting PCI/AGP locking, so that really isn't an issue anymore- due to increased instability) you can get slower (read less expensive) memory. Also the "Matched Modules" are basically only for the extra insane overclocker or the extra-paranoid system builder. A waste of money. You need to get modules that are the same, however this can be done by ordering 2 of the same sticks of memory at the same time. I do highly recommend name brand memory (Crucial, Muskin, Kingston.) The difference between "Level2/HyperX/HyperX series" is nothing worth noting. Basically HyperX and HyperX series are the same memory, just the "series" has been "Modules Matched tested." The memory you get should have at least 2.5 timings. (If that doesn't make any sense I'll find a good stick of memory, and post a link to it.)

Two more things:

1.The power supply. Most of the time people skimp on this. DO NOT DO THAT! Instead buy a good quality power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=17%2D1

2. System Noise. A lot of people don't seem to mind a noisy system, but once you go quiet, you'll never want to go back. Also a quiet system provides a better work enviroment, esp. when dealing with audio (which as a video editor you'll have to deal with a lot.) So go for quiet fans (CPU, and Case. The power supply I recommended fits this requirement as well.)

Well that about answers your post. Keep'em coming... smile

Last edited Thu, 1st Jan 2004, 9:17am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 1st Jan 2004, 8:04am

Post 14 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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For Audio:
Onboard audio should work fine. You should budget for a Sound Blaster Audigy though.

The Website/Forum:
It sounds like you have cookies disabled. You need to enable them for the Canopus Website/Forum.
Posted: Thu, 1st Jan 2004, 7:36pm

Post 15 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

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Hi Amadeus0,

To answer your questions:

1. I am building my computer from scratch.
2. I am willing to spend around $3,500 for everything (systems, mouse, keyboard, 2 monitors, video cards, and graphic cards...) OR $2,500 without the graphic cards.
3. I'll purchase the parts as soon as i have enough good parts. I want to have a no computer in this month (January). Is it a good month to buy since it's just after Christmas and New Year?
4. Sorry, but i don't know what you mean by "video streams and graphic stream". Please explain.
5. They usualy use one camera, but another one just to back up. So, roughly 2 cameras that they use. Nope, they dont' use timecode to sync it. They use DV cam to shoot the wedding, and i dont' have dv cam deck, so they have to transfer it to miniDV.
6. They use mostly backgrounds that they buy. They didn't create anything.


So, the hard drive is settled for me. Western Digital it is. I think i'll get serial ATA 72,000 RPM for my windows and applications, and the rest i'll use Raid 0 for storages.

About the case, thanks for the link, but does it lay down like that? Cuz I need one that stands up, heheh...Also, i think it only has 2 fans. Do you have any other recommendations? Thanks.

About the memory, I read somewhere and they said something like, if you have 4 module of the same side and brands, it's better than just 2. Is it true? Does that mean if i got 4 sticks of 512MB of same double sided memory, it will be better than 2 sticks of 1GB of same double sided memory? I am so confused. Can you post a link and recommend what type of memory? Thanks.

The link you gave me about the power supply, it leads me to a printer. Can you check it again.

Can you recommend quiet fans, CPU, and Cases? Thanks.

I got into the Canopus site, and check out some posts. But couldn't find much info. about what type of Video cards they required. I want to output my work space to dual monitors and a TV for preview. Which card is good in doing this? I am looking at the Matrox Peralia. What you think? Why "matrox is a no go" to you? Thanks.

One more thing, is there anywhere i can buy the Canopus card without the bundle with PPRO, Audition, and Encore? Also, when i purchase the Canopus card now, do they have a driver to use with premiere 6.5?

Thanks alot.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Jan 2004, 7:05am

Post 16 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Get a PATA drive for Windows and applications. You want to leave the SATA connectors free for the RAID setup. As for the case you *COULD* stand it up on it's side, but I wouldn't do that wink

Memory...I've heard different things, but I've never benchmarked such. I would tend to go for the fewer/bigger sticks of RAM. Leaves more room for expansion if you need it later on. The link should work, but Newegg seems to be having some website problems. The Power Supply in question is the ThermalTake 480W PurePower.

You don't need a Graphics card with TV out becuase the Canopus card will provide you with TV-out. The Parhelia is on Canopus' *NOT RECOMMENED* list. It has some type of overlay problem. Canopus has a Premiere 6.5 Driver that you will get on CD, or can download from their website.

I'll post some links to the memory, heatsink+fan, case fans, a good case, and maybe some other things wink if I can find them.

If you put one video file on track 1, that's one Video stream. If you put 2 video files on (just for an example) tracks 1 & 3 (or 2 & 3, or 4 & 7) (One covering the other) that would be 2 streams. If you put a video file on tracks 1, 2 & 3 (so that all three files are playing at the same time) that would be 3 streams of video. So on and so forth. Same thing for a graphic stream, but instead of a video file, you use a still of some type still, like a bitmap-targa-Tiff- PSD...

As for the time of year, I'd expect only a few small price cuts between now and March. After March though it should heat up some. Of course I could be wrong :-0 , but I try to keep my ear to the ground for this type of stuff...but still I have been surprised from time to time.

A quick side note: After spending an evening working on a Matrox Premiere Pro system I was able to get it working somewhat. The owner of said system is going to edit this week with Premiere Pro and get back to me to tell if some/most of the crashing has gone away. I've spent much time in the forums on this one, and hopefully most of this stuff will be resolved by Adobe with a patch (and hopefully soon.)
Posted: Fri, 2nd Jan 2004, 7:47am

Post 17 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

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Thanks for the info. about graphic and video streams! I guess I'll be using lots of graphic and video streams.

Btw, why do you recommend PATA drives for

I decided to get the ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe. Now, if i can decide on what cases and fans to get, then i'll go for it.

Anyways, hope to see some links from you soon! biggrin and the experience with Matrox PPRO system.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Jan 2004, 4:37pm

Post 18 of 124

Amadeus0

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What country do you live in? USA? England?
Posted: Fri, 2nd Jan 2004, 6:38pm

Post 19 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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I live in Southern California, USA.

Btw, you mind if i ask what you do for living? Cuz, it seems like you're building computer for clients, is that true? I am asking cuz i am looking for someone to help me out too. Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Jan 2004, 2:08am

Post 20 of 124

Amadeus0

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I was wondering where you lived 'cause if you lived in the USA I could give you a bunch of links for the hardware, and the lowest prices.

I live in New Orleans, LA. I love working with computers and being a video editor, so the two just kinda matched up. I know many system builders are very good, but don't understand the various issues that video editors face, so when it comes to building a system like that they're clueless (so they ask me for help.) smile Professionally, I'm a video freelancer. On the side I build and service PCs (in fact I'm trying to get a service contract with an accounting firm servicing hardware with BSD/Linux as their main OS.) I have 6 regular video editor clients. I do a little editing, (but my boss is the programmer/Editor of us two) and spend most of my "free" time building graphics (2D and 3D). Basically if it has to do with computers, electronics or video/film I'm there. If it has to do with two (or even better all three), then I'm really there.

I actually have a client in GA, but I don't really like doing service over such a long distance. If something goes wrong I like to be able to walk in the room (or SSH in) and fix it. Going interstate means that I must depend on the technical skills of the person using the system, and sometimes that leaves a lot to be desired. Although most eveyone likes to learn so it isn't too bad.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Jan 2004, 2:37am

Post 21 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

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I somewhat knew what you do for living just based on your knowdlege biggrin . If you were living in California, i think i'd ask you for help in building my comp. razz

Anyways, I decided to get these parts:

CASE: Antec Performance Plus Case, Model:PLUS1080AMG, Retail

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-115&depa=1

Motherboard: ASUS P4C800-E DELUXE

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-464&depa=1


CPU: Pentium 4 2.8 GHz 800 fsb with HT

Memory: DDR PC3200 or DDR PC3500 (1gig total)

Now the only thing i am still thinking is the video card. I guess i can't get the Matrox Parhelia. But what other cards that support dual monitors PLUS TV out? Well, the Storm supports TV out, so I guess I am just looking for a good dual monitor video card. YOu have any recommendations? Please post me some links. Thanks.

One more question, i do some research, and see that i can get the DVStorm2 Ultra for only $1000 and the DVStorm2 for just $800 (those are educational prices). What is the differences between those 2 with the DVStorm2 Pro+? I am still confused. Please help me out. Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Jan 2004, 7:50am

Post 22 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Case looks good.
Memory link:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-150-564&catalog=147&depa=1

I've built 2 systems and upgraded the Ram on 3 other systems (1 each was mine) using this brand memeory. No Problems. I like it. I recommend that you get 2 Gigs of Memory. It really does help.

Video Card:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=14%2D130%2D179&searchdepa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=14%2D128%2D169&searchdepa=0

The first link is for a GF5900fx. It's $188. It's useful only if you need good 3D(Gaming or 3D graphics.) The second one is for a GF 5600TX FX. It's $109. Both have Dual Head and TV-out.

The difference between the Storm2 and Storm2 Ultra is the Ultra comes with the Storm Bay (this is the device that sits in a 5-1/4" bay on your computer and gives you access to the ports on the back of the card on the front of your computer.) The difference between the Storm2 and the Storm2 Pro+ is component output and a little bit better software bundle:

http://www.canopus.us/us/products/dvstorm_2/pt_dvstorm_2.asp#specs
http://www.canopus.us/us/products/dvstorm2_pro/pt_dvstorm_2_Pro+.asp#specs

Well that's a start. For quiet case fans, and a good power supply the case that you picked out already has them both. I built someone's system (the Matrox RTX.100 w/Premiere Pro that I talked about a couple of sposts ago) using this case. Very nice/good case.

Put the Canopus card the in second PCI slot (from the top.) Are there any other parts you're looking for (DVD-+R/W drives? Zip? anything else?) Have you decided on the Hard drives? The system drive really should be PATA, the storage drives SATA, the OS WinXP. Good CPU choice and good Motherboard choice.

Hard drives:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-800BB
http://www.ewiz.com/query.php?categry=22&s=western+digital+7200rpm&x=0&y=0&nl=50&searchStr=Serial&dispi=0&ob=a

The first link is for the system hard drive, the second for the data.

Sound card:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=29%2D102%2D158&searchdepa=0

I know that you could find prices a couple of bucks lower here or there, but I really like Newegg (and eWiz for that matter.) Great support, and very good prices/selection. Also (depending on where you live in CA) you can walk right in and pick-up your order. A great time/money saver.
Posted: Sun, 4th Jan 2004, 3:27am

Post 23 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Hi Amedeus0, thanks alot for your links!

Anyways here goes my questions again:D

1. I am a little confused over the video cards you recommend me. I don't see those cards in the Canopus Compatible List. Is it still supported by DVStorm2?

2. The dual head of the video cards you recommend, can it go to CRT monitors too or just LCDs?

3. Is there a triple head video card you can recommend? razz

4. Many reviews seems to lean more over ATI all in wonder video cards as for video, is it true? Why did you recommend Geforce over ATI?

5. I know that DVStorm doesn't work with PPRO very well. Can i install premiere 6.5 and PPRO on the same system but using DVStorm only for Premiere 6.5? Or Does it have to be on both?

6. The hard drives you recommend are bare drives, so i guess they didn't have Controller Cards for the drives over 120 GB. How do I make the windows to detect its full capacity?

7. I found this DVStorm with a really good price (link below), what do you think about this card? It only differs from the Ultra version is that it doesn't have storm bay right? I have no idea when i look at it. Please advice.

http://www.journeyed.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?UID=2004010202304234&GEN0=&GEN1=&GEN2=&GEN3=&GEN4=&GEN5=&GEN6=&GEN7=&GEN8=&GEN9=index2.html&TRAN85=Y&T1=19564583+PIDS&FNM=00&UREQA=2&UREQB=1&UREQC=3&UREQD=4

8. I live in Santa Ana, Southern California. Where can i find the store so i can do the in-store pickup? Is it even possible for me?


9. Last question is about shipping and order method, will it better to order everything as one order or everything separately? Cuz some of the items has free shipping and some not.


I hope you dont' get bored with all of my questions biggrin


Anyways, this is the final list of things i am gonna buy:

CPU, Motherboard, and case are the same with the above post.

2 GB of Memory of the type you posted above.

Sound card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS PCI Sound Card -Retail
(the reason i chose this one over the one you posted is that it's in retail box. I think i'll better off with some manual or instructions biggrin)

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-162&depa=1


Floppy Drives: Alps DF354H068F Beige 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive, OEM
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=21-103-301&catalog=13&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0


DVD-Rom and mouse and keyboard, i haven't decided yet. You have any recommends?

DVD-/+RW: I have good result with the optorite 4x dual format, so i think i'll get another one.

Monitors: I think i'll get 2 19" ViewSonic Flat CRT

I am still waiting for your respond on the video card then i am all set to go. I am looking to hear your inputs and comments on the specs i chose. Hope to hear from you soon! Thanks.
Posted: Sun, 4th Jan 2004, 6:30pm

Post 24 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Gold Member

For an 8x DVD-+RW drive:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=DVD2500A&c=pw

Monitors sound good. ViewSonic puts out good stuff. For keyboard you'll be typing a little bit (mostly for titles), and if you want to be a fast editor you'll need to learn the programs' keyboard shortcuts. As for a mouse, I'd get an optical one. Much better then any analog-type device. I use Logitech Trackballs. Their Optical Mice are nice. I'd stay away from all wireless devices (that includes bluetooth), and don't use the "Walkie-Talkie" feature on your cellphone around your array (that really only applies to external SCSI arrays however.)

Don't bother with the Floppy. You can download the drivers off the internet (and they'll usually be newer then the ones that come on those disks.) You really don't have to go with the retail sound card, the docs don't tell you anything important, and you can download said docs off of www.Creative.com .

1. The cards that listed are on Canopus' website, but not by those names. They only reference the Generic Chipset names of the Graphics cards.

2. Both cards have a DVI-I port and a DB15 port. They should come with the DVI-I to DB15 converter. You might want to double check that, but I remember seeing them listed. DB15 is the standard for connecting analog monitors (like the ViewSonic) to a graphics' card.

3. No. If you want triple-head that badly I can tell you how setup your computer so that you'll have such. It isn't too hard and you could do quaduple head if you wanted to. wink

4. It's a bit complicated, but here goes. For OpenGL support ATI sucks, NVidia is awesome. The Canopus card comes with a program that uses your graphics card to render 3D Transitions (XPlode LT I believe), and recommend Geforce cards for that program. In fact they've gone so far as to write an engine JUST for NVidia cards, to take advantage of some of their unique features. NVidia hardware render support is just around the corner for some applications. However most of these you most likely will not be running, but it never hurts to be safe. If you have a 32-bit Desktop and have an ATI card when you run Premiere with the RT support the ATI drivers will not allow you to open a directshow window in 16-bit mode. This is horrible for the RTX.100, but I don't know if it affects the Storm. Again it's better to be safe then sorry.

5. If you're talking about Video, then the ATI cards win hands-down, but you're getting a Canopus card to handle all your video needs, so that renders the only ATI advantage moot (unless you want to play uber-L33T video games.) wink

6. The hard limit for SATA is something like 50 Petabyes. You will not have any issues with the full size of the hard drives being seen. The controller and cables are supplied with the Motherboard. The only thing you'll need to pick-up (possibly) are some PATA to SATA Power cable conveters. They run about $2-3 ea.

7. That's not a bad price. Your assumption is correct (AFAIK.)

8. Newegg doesn't do walk-in orders. eWiz phone number: 408-934-2500 ...Sorry I've run out of time. Call them, ask where they are and if you can do a pick-up order.

9. Just order everything as one. The parts that have free shipping will retain that status. They'll only charge you for shipping the non-free parts.

An update for the RTX.100+Premiere Pro: Guy edited a wedding on it. He says it worked fine (I need a few more details.) The only problem is he can't export back to tape. I have a simple work around for him to try (that almost always works) so if it does then the RTX.100 goes from status:Bad to status:Useable. I have that client in GA that uses the same combo. I need him to try out the changes I made, and if his works then I'll be cooking.
Posted: Mon, 5th Jan 2004, 1:37am

Post 25 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

I am glad to hear the RTX100 and PPRO worked out well. I hope the Canopus releases a better driver for PPRO soon:D.

I checked the video card above and didn't see anything about DVI-I to DB15. But i see these "VGA via DVI Adapter" and "VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI connector". Is it ok? I hope so, cuz i am gonna order those tonight wink .

The hard drive for windows you recommend is only 2MB Buffer. Is it good enough?

I think I am gonna get 80 GB drive for windows and 2 250 GB Serial ATA for storage.

If everything's fine, i am gonna order all the specs tonight from newegg.com. After i got it. I think I am gonna border you more biggrin.

Btw, been talking with you for awhile but didn't know your name. I am Tony. What's your name? And how much you build the system for your clients? Just wondering cuz who knows maybe someday i'll need your help in building one. Thanks alot.
Posted: Mon, 5th Jan 2004, 2:20am

Post 26 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Name: Amadeus (really!) If you click on my profile you should see my info. I have full confidence in Canopus and Matrox. The first one (VGA via DVI adapter) is what you want. If for some reason you don't have that you can always pick one up. They cost about $15-$35 (depending on where you get it.)

The 2MB buffer is fine for the system drive. Of course more Buffer is always better, but it really depends on you. Do you want to spend the extra money on it? If so go for it, but I don't think you'll notice a difference for a system drive.

Feel free to keep asking away (after all that and doing is best way to learn.) Cost is client pays for shipping both ways. In addition to that I charge $300-$1,700 depending on the system, OS and what type of testing needs to be done. For your setup it would be about $450. The low cost is due to my familiarity with building such systems.
Posted: Mon, 5th Jan 2004, 7:38am

Post 27 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

I'll make sure to ask some more questions, don't worry! razz

Anyways, i ordered the specs already. Hopefully it'll be here on thursday is the latest cuz i can't wait... biggrin I ordered almost everything on newegg except for CPU, drives, monitors and keyboard and mouse. I think i'll pick those up at frys.

THanks alot for helping me out the last few days. Without your help, i don't think i can pick out the parts yet. smile I'll definitely need your help again on setting up Raid and the Canopus card. I didn't order the Canopus yet. Still waiting till i got my computer going, make sure everything's fine, then i'll go for the Canopus. I'll start to work on my editing job i told you in the last few posts tomorrow. It better pays off for my new comp. biggrin

Btw, i notice your aim on your profile. Can i add it to my list so i can "bug" you when i am so desperate for help? Thanks.

One more thing i forgot to post in the last post. I don't want to have triple head that "badly". I only need dual head. But it'd be nice if i can set it up for triple head with the card i've purchased. Hope you can help me out. Thanks.
Posted: Mon, 5th Jan 2004, 5:58pm

Post 28 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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I'm almost never on AIM, but go ahead and feel free to do so.

To get Tri-head or Quad-head, you simply buy a Geforce2mx or 4mx PCI card and install it in PCI slot 1. Install the drivers for it, and "BANG!", instant triple/quad head.
Posted: Mon, 5th Jan 2004, 7:06pm

Post 29 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Is the Geforce2mx or 4mx PCI card is a video card? Can my video card works with it?
Posted: Tue, 6th Jan 2004, 3:03am

Post 30 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Let us clarify. From this point forward a card that is installed in a PC, hooks up to a computer monitor, and is meant to display the Windows Desktop is a "Graphics Card", and something like a Canopus or a Matrox RTX is a video card.

The GeForce 2mx/4mx cards are graphics cards. They come in single head and dual head configurations. They can also come with TV-out, and some might even come with video in. These cards will work with other Graphics' cards, but work best by staying in their family (i.e. the NVidia product line.) Your card will work with it.
Posted: Tue, 6th Jan 2004, 3:24am

Post 31 of 124

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

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Thats not very clarifying at all unfortunatly.

Cards which put the display on your monitor are often known as video, vga, graphics or display cards. To be unambiguous you should call other types of card capture or editing cards or something like that.

To further complicate the matter manufacturers are now combining editing/capture cards with graphics cards in order to use the graphics cpu and agp bandwidth for video editing.

--

Don't get an MX card. I would recommend a Geforce 4 or above. Any that isn't mx. (a geforce4mx is basically a rebadged geforce2 and is different from all the others) Practically all modern cards do dual screen. All of the geforce4s do (apart from the mx) but depending on which manufacturer you go for you may need an aditional dvi to vga splitter.

I reccomend Asus, expecially if you are getting an asus motherboard.

I would avoid ati as they tend to have compatibility problems. Otherwise, if you want something cheap but that still does dual screen then go fo a Matrox G400 or G550. Matrox cards have the best picture but are a bit outdated now. However their lack of 3D power does not matter for the video field. The Parhelia doesn't really live up to its original hype and has compatibility problems.
Posted: Tue, 6th Jan 2004, 7:46pm

Post 32 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Thanks Amadeus0 and Kid!

Amadeus0,

I just got my order today.... biggrin Newegg shipped so fast...hehhe...I am so excited.

Anyways, I need your advice on how to set this up. Should i just hook everything up like hard drives for Raid, video card,....everything at one time and boot up. Or should i just install one by one? If so, which one should i install first? sad


One more thing, I got my motherboard and it said in the box that: P4C800-E DELUXE UAY. WHat is UAY? I read the review and one guy said that the "UAY is a cheaper version of this board that does NOT contain the ICH5R chipset. It contains the ICH5 chipset and a Promise RAID controller." Is that true? What should i do? Should i RMA it? Please advice ASAP. Thank you very much!!!!


Also, I read some reviews and they recommened to update the BIOS, but i also heard someone said that's updating (or upgrading i dont know) BIOS is not a "smart" thing to do if you don't know what you're doing. So, should I or should I not update my Bios? Thanks again.

I really need your answers. Thanks!
Posted: Tue, 6th Jan 2004, 8:04pm

Post 33 of 124

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

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Yes you do need to update your bios for your computer to run smoothly but be careful and read all the instructions properly as failing to update correctly can result in a non functioning board (although this has never happened to me and I have done it hundreds of times).
Posted: Tue, 6th Jan 2004, 8:13pm

Post 34 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

Thanks Kid!

What about my other questions? Please help!
Posted: Wed, 7th Jan 2004, 2:59am

Post 35 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Kid Geforce4MX cards are NOT repackaged Geforce2 Cards. GF4MX cards have a vertex shader, GF2 cards do not. GF4MX cards support dualhead mode, GF2 Cards do not. GF4MX cards have certain memory bandwidth optimizations that the GF2 cards don't have. GF4MX cards can come with SDR or DDR memory, GF2 Cards only came with DDR. GF4MX cards have a different internal chip layout and pinout then GF2s (I think...I'm trying to remember about that last one.)

Also while you can get a GF2MX that run in a PCI slot, you can also get GF4MX cards, and FX5200 cards. Remember: It has to be PCI. AGP wont cut it (as in the AGP slot already has a card in it.)

To "The KILLER!" smile you do want the version with the Intel ICH5R, so contact Newegg and sort it out (i.e. don't just ask for a RMA, if you do they could end up shipping you the same board.)

For some reason I've stopped receiving emails when someone replies to this post. Hmmmmm.

Kid is right about the BIOS. Whenever I'm building a new system I download and install the latest BIOS, and the latest drivers.

To Kid: Just calling it a "Capture Card" is simple, and the best way to go about handling this issue. Thank you.
Posted: Wed, 7th Jan 2004, 4:09am

Post 36 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

hehe...thanks for your reply!
Posted: Wed, 7th Jan 2004, 4:35am

Post 37 of 124

SunriseSeagull

Force: 200 | Joined: 30th Apr 2003 | Posts: 214

Gold Member

I forgot to ask, How do i know if i have the version with the Intel ICH5R? Where do i look to see that? I checked on the motherboard itself, but i only see a chip say INTEL, but couldn't see anything that said ICH5R.

Also, what's the differences between ICH5 and ICH5r chipset? Will the difference be worth it to do the RMA? Thanks.
Posted: Wed, 7th Jan 2004, 4:09pm

Post 38 of 124

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

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Amadeus0 wrote:

Kid Geforce4MX cards are NOT repackaged Geforce2 Cards. GF4MX cards have a vertex shader, GF2 cards do not. GF4MX cards support dualhead mode, GF2 Cards do not. GF4MX cards have certain memory bandwidth optimizations that the GF2 cards don't have. GF4MX cards can come with SDR or DDR memory, GF2 Cards only came with DDR. GF4MX cards have a different internal chip layout and pinout then GF2s (I think...I'm trying to remember about that last one.)

Also while you can get a GF2MX that run in a PCI slot, you can also get GF4MX cards, and FX5200 cards. Remember: It has to be PCI. AGP wont cut it (as in the AGP slot already has a card in it.)
Geforce4mx cards ARE reworked geforce2 cards, but with additional pipelines. (I did not mean they are identical cards with a different name, simply that they are not the proper geforce 4 chipset) They do not have addition vertex shader. They do not support geforce 4 style dual head, they only support geforce2 style dual head which is slightly different (and yes geforce2 cards did do dual). Also geforce 2 cards came in both types of memory, this is what geforce 2mx indicated!

In listing the gf4mx and fx5200 you have listed both of the outdated ones to avoid! Why do you need PCI? Why is this a second card, what is in the AGP slot? Using PCI rather than AGP undoes all of the point of getting a decent card.
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 12:58am

Post 39 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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That's funny. According to NVIDIA the GF4MX support dual head just like a GF4 card. Of course that can't be true, even though I'm using such a card (a GF4MX) in dual head mode, and acts just like the Dual head GF4 I built for someone else. I submit the following URL for info about the GF4MX series of cards:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1583&p=6

Note "The same geforce4 support...for nView." "Limited vertex support",

The Geforce 2 cards didn't support Dual head (the only GF2 card that I've ever known to 'claim' support for such a feature had a DB15 port and a DVI port, and it cloned the output of the DB15 port to the DVI port, which ANYONE COULD HAVE DONE AT ANYTIME). The GF2MX cards did, but those chips were radically different, and what we know as "nView" started out with the dual head support of the GF2MX. GF2 chips DO support SDR RAM (unlike what I said earlier, but I seem to recall that only DDR versions of the card came out.), GF2MX chips only support 64-bit/128-bit SDR or 64-bit DDR. Again I submit the following URLs:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1231&p=3
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1266&p=2
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1266&p=5

For the last link if you read that page, and then goto the next page you'll see that "One of the [2] unique features of the GF2MX over the GF2 is TwinView" (Basically what we now call nView.) The GF2 didn't support it. The GF2 and GF2MX were really different chips, in many area similar, but different. One had 128-bit DDR support (GF2), the other didn't. One had TwinView support (GF2MX), the other didn't. One had DVC (GF2MX), the other didn't (although that was really just a con job).

As to "Why PCI?" Well all motherboards only come with 1 AGP slot (if that many) smile , and that slot already has some dual head NVidia card in it (for argument sakes' let's say a FX5900.) Well that's great, but I want 3 or 4 monitors. I also need this card to run well with Canopus products (which rules out Matrox), and I want good OpenGL compatiblilty between the 2 cards (so said application doesn't default to software rendering.) So that means I have to get a NVidia-based card for the PCI slot. I'd be saying the same thing if he got an ATI or Matrox card ("Get a PCI card that's from the same chip provider"). It makes it easier on yourself to stick with one family of graphics cards. Less problems (potential or otherwise.)

So that explains "Why PCI?", but as to which card? Well it has to be NVidia, and I don't know of any PCI GF2/GF3/GF4/FX5600+ cards. Do you? The only ones I know of are the GF2MX, GF4MX, FX5200. So that's "Why those chips?" answered.
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 1:26am

Post 40 of 124

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

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I'm sorry but you are talking rubbish. I have a geforce 2 and a geforce 2 mx so I know what they have. Just cos you use all nVidia products does not mean they will be compatible. As I already mentioned the mx cards do dual screen in a different way and are likely to cause problems.

Secondly, why on earth would you want 3 or 4 monitors?

Thirdly, the reason agp is a seperate bus is not just because 3d graphics need more bandwidth but also because more other things are bandwidth hungry on the pci bus these days. Adding something like a graphics card is a bad idea as video editing cards need a lot of the bandwidth and you will be eating into this. Its hard enough tweaking the pci to get realtime cards working smoothly in some cases without complicating the matter.

I speak from experience, being a designer and manufacturer of video systems. You seem to have got most of the rest sorted, just a couple of points...

I would avoid rack mounted cases as they are expensive and tend to have worse airflow. They seem like a neat idea but dont work as well in practice.

Also you don't need any fancy SATA drives, regular IDE is plenty fast enough these days as long as you don't have cd/dvd drives on the same channel. Also a 3 drive setup with a stripeset is prolly overkill for a beginner. 2 drives one for system and one for video only will suffice for most people. With a stripeset you need to know the drawback that you are twice as likely to have that volume fail and you only need the speed if you are dealing with multiple streams of video at once (which doesn't really happen that often)
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 1:26am

Post 41 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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"How to check for the ICH5R?"

If the motherboard manual states so, then you should be fine. Also you could plug the MB in and check on boot up if the Intel RAID BIOS comes up.

"What is the difference between ICH5 and ICH5R?"

R = SATA-RAID support.
non-R = the lack there of.

"Is it worth it?"

The PCI bus has certain bandwidth limitations that are gotten around by building other PCI buses on the MB (like server MBs), or by splitting off certain Bandwidth hogs (such as Gigabit Ethernet and/or SATA-RAID) so that the main bus becomes less congested. Why is this important? Well for you it means more Real-time stuff and Streams. So I'd say it's very important.

Last edited Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 2:35am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 2:00am

Post 42 of 124

Amadeus0

Force: 300 | Joined: 8th Feb 2002 | Posts: 121

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Did you check that first link? (Did you look at any of them?) Should I find more links? Do I need to pull a doc from NVidia directly?

I don't use only NVidia products (just for the record). I have built others' systems and purchased for myself ATI and Matrox products. It just that when looking across a wide range of issues that professionals in 3D, 2D and video face NVidia comes out on top more often then not. So I tend to use and recommend them. It's really only in the consumer 3D (i.e. video gaming) space that NVidia loses. Even then it's not by that much (unless you want DX9 support, then it's horrible.)

And Yes...even products in the same family can cause problems, just they are LESS likely to cause problems then using stuff from different families/companies.

Why do I want 3 or 4 monitors? I don't. Ask Ladieskiller about that. I do know a few day-traders and 3 or 4 monitors are good for them, so it can be useful, but I don't really have a use for such. But that doesn't mean Killer doesn't.

I do know that using a graphics card on the PCI bus will take up precious bandwidth. Really I should have said that from the start. But I didn't, so for the record "It does." Will it interfere with real-time editing? It can. You wont know until you try! smile really I shouldn't have even recommended it to a novice system builder. I would buy and try just to see how much it does interfere (as I would like to think you would Kid.)

Rack mount cases CAN be more difficult to cool, but allow the use of shorter cables. Also Rack mount cases are Sexy (at least to me!) smile
They are more expensive, but Killer picked out a good (non-rack mount) case to use. I use rack mount due to the space savings, and shorter cable runs/more drive bays in a box.

The SATA drives ARE for Several Streams of Video. Also only 2 drives are being bought for striping. The third drive is for system use only. The biggest problem with striping is that it CAN fail, but really what will you lose on that stripe? Just a bunch of video files that can be recaptured (if you do batch capture then it's really not a problem), audio that can be re-ripped/re-recorded, and graphic files/stills/scans/project files. If you keep back-ups of those last file types then losing the stripe set isn't that big of a deal, and it's not like you're gonna somehow find a hard drive that's fast enough to use without RAID0. So you have to take the risks.

As for multiple streams of video not occurring that often, well every time you do a cross-dissolve that's 2 streams+1 2D Transition. PIP (depending on how many) uses more Streams. Page peel is 2 streams (at least.) It's easy to use five streams when you have to comp something that's even of basic complexity. (The most I've used in Premiere was 4 video streams + 12 graphic streams at once...What a pain to render!) AND REMEMBER! HE IS EDITING WEDDINGS, SO IT HAS TO HAVE LOTS OF DISSOLVES AND SLOW-MO, AND PRETTY EFFECTS! wink (Yeah pretty, but by who's standard?) He ain't cutting movies on this box (well actually he will be, but that's not why he bought it.)
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 2:52am

Post 43 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Kid, Why would i want 3 or 4 monitors? Well, maybe to be able to check out more ladies to kill? wink ....just jk....I just need only 2 monitors, but the third one maybe to open another applications like AE, while using Premiere.

Amadeus,

I can't boot the system to see if the Bios support RAID-SATA yet cuz i don't have CPU:D Fry's ran out of those. But the manual said it does have ICH5R chipset. I call newegg but they said i might end up getting the same card anyways so i didn't bother to do the RMA.

So, if it doesn't support SATA or RAID then it's not "R"? Is there another way i can check it beside booting up the system? Thanks.
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 3:25am

Post 44 of 124

Amadeus0

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http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=13%2D131%2D449&searchdepa=0

That's the Motherboard that you ordered. This is the one you want:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-464&catalog=280&depa=0

The Price difference is $7. I'd say it's worth it. The link that you posted (a page back) was for the correct MB (it's the same as the second one on this post.) If that's the one you ordered, then Newegg screwed-up, and you need to have them fix it. If you ordered the wrong MB (the one in the first post) then forget about it. It's not worth the Restock fee. Everything will be fine either way.

Also the Intel ICH5 supports SATA, just not in RAID mode. The Intel ICH5R support SATA in RAID mode. That's really the only difference. For you it doesn't matter that much (it would have been nice, but...) you'll still get RAID, just in software.

Don't let the term "in software" fool you. in either case the RAID would be running off of your CPU, so it's nothing to freak out about.
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 4:44am

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SunriseSeagull

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The one that I ordered is $181.00 eek Anyways, i notice the difference is that one with the "E" and one without. And the one that i have right now is with letter "E". So i guess i got the right one, right?
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 6:52am

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Amadeus0

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Yes. You got the right one.
Posted: Thu, 8th Jan 2004, 5:50pm

Post 47 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Great! Glad to hear that biggrin . Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 10th Jan 2004, 3:57am

Post 48 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

I just have one more question regarding shopping at newegg. Is it safe to buy CPU at newegg? So far i am pretty satisfied with the shipping of newegg but haven't had a chance to try the products. I chose to pick up CPU at frys' but they ran out of those and i don't want to wait until next week. Have you have any problems buying CPU from newegg? Please advice. Thanks.
Posted: Sun, 11th Jan 2004, 7:10am

Post 49 of 124

Amadeus0

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No problems at all. Just make sure you get a Retail CPU. The longer warranty for only $2-5 more is worth it. Plus you get that *REALLY NEAT* HS/F. wink
Posted: Sun, 11th Jan 2004, 12:55pm

Post 50 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Amadeus,

I'll order it today. Probably it'll come to my door on Tuesday morning, and hopefully i'll be able to start building with no problem confused Thanks again.
Posted: Thu, 15th Jan 2004, 10:30am

Post 51 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

Finally I got my new computer!!! biggrin Everything goes fine so far. Thanks for helping me out and recommend a good place to shop. I love newegg..hhehe...

Anyways, I still got questions and need your helps.

As inexperience as i am, updating Bios is kind of a risk to do. So, I didn't do it. I am just wondering if there's an "easy" way to update it? I notice my BIOS version is 1010 and the one on the website is 1014. But the procedure is still kind of confused for me. Please help.

Also, one thing that I can't seem to make it work right is the Capture Video (Universal) device in my graphic card (although I don't recall my video card can do video IN cuz i don't see any port that i can connect the video in, or is there? confused ). I can't seem to install the software right. It says it can't start the hardware. Any ideas?

Please help me again biggrin . Thanks alot!
Posted: Thu, 15th Jan 2004, 8:40pm

Post 52 of 124

Amadeus0

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You can use the ASUSLiveUpdate to flash the BIOS from Windows. If you don't want to do that you can goto:

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Download the WindowsME disk, run the program. Then download the Asus BIOS (

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P4C800-E%20Deluxe

) unzip and copy to a blank floppy. Then download the AFUDOS program (it's at the top of the list) and unzip to the same floppy that has the new BIOS. Boot your system up using the WinME disk, and select option No.4 "Minimal Boot." When you get to the A:\> prompt put the disk with the BIOS in the drive and type:

AFUDOS /i<thenameoftheBIOSFile.andextension>

Your manual (chapter 4) will have more info on what's happening. Make sure that there is no space between the "/i" and the BIOS name. I'd recommend using the ASUSLiveUpdate though (easier.)

What Video card do you have? Also you should have onboard Firewire (or rather IEEE1394) for capturing from a digital device.

While you're at it I'd recommend downloading the latest drivers and utilities from the ASUS website as well (or if you're daring get the latest from the Hardware OEMs website.)

If the Soundblaster card you purchased has Firewire onboard, then disable the onboard firewire, and install the card in PCI slot 4 (second one from the bottom.) If the card doesn't have firewire install it in slot 4 anyway. Also disable any ports you're not using (such as the Parallel/serial ports), the Promise controller, the onboard Audio (assuming that you have that Soundblaster card) and any USB ports you don't plan on using. "Plug-in-Play OS" should be set to "No". If you got only 2 sticks of ram make sure to install them in the DIMM slots that are the same color.
Posted: Thu, 15th Jan 2004, 10:06pm

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Kid

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Hrm, some odd advice in that last message.

If you have installed the cd that came with your motherboard you should already have asus update for windows installed. Run it and it will download the latest bios and flash it for you. No need to mess around with bootdisks or dos at all.

If you have firewire on your soundcard you can't disable it and you don't need to anyway. It doesn't take any resources and you can plug your camera into either the soundcard or any other firewire port you have installed the drivers for.

There is no point in disabling things you arn't using unless you have a conflict. This will just make it harder to add anything in the future. The only thing that you do need to do is make sure you disable onboard audio if you have it and a pci audio card.

I do agree to get the latest drivers. Download the latest ones from ASUS and if you have an nVidia graphics card I suggest using the generic nVidia ones rather than the ones provided by the manufacturer because they are generally more stable.

Plug and play OS should be set to Yes with windows. I do not understand why you suggest otherwise. Also why do you think the audio card needs to be in slot 4 especially?
Posted: Thu, 15th Jan 2004, 11:35pm

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Amadeus0

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I seem to recall that according to Canopus the Bios should be set to No for PnP. When talking about disabling the Firewire, I was refering to the onboard firewire, not the IEEE1394 on the SB. The onboard Firewire should be disabled (same INT line if the card is in slot 4) and it's a VIA-based Firewire. Not as good as the Ti chipset.

Live update is on the CD (Manual chapter 5), and can/should be installed. (I should have been more explict when talking about getting the NVidia drivers...I myself always do that.)

Audio in slot 4? Well the Canopus goes in slot2, and the video card in AGP (which occupies) the same line as USB1. Slot 3 has USB3 attached to it and SATA. Slot 4 shares with the onboard Firewire, so (at least the way I like to think of it) it's like killing 2 birds with one stone. (PCI slot5 and 1 are shared together.)

I've found that SB cards don't really like sharing with USB (NIC, SCSI, Other Firewire, Video cards, and IDE expansions seem to work fine with it, but USB -AT TIMES- gives it fits.) So that basically leaves slot 4, 5, and 1. With FW on the SB, you can disable the onboard and take slot 4, however you could put it in slot 5 or 1. Going by what I know about Canopus systems that run fine, Slot 4 seems to be the place to put it.

Also a little bit more about the PnP for Windows:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;321779

If it weren't for the Canopus card, then I would say it really doesn't matter (ACPI takes over everything anyway), but...
Posted: Fri, 16th Jan 2004, 3:46am

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Kid

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Specific slots dont correspond to specific irqs though.
Posted: Fri, 16th Jan 2004, 9:32am

Post 56 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks guys for your replies!


I am still a little unsure about updating Bios. As far as my computer is working fine, is it really neccesarry to update? If it is, is it still ok to update when I already installed softwares? Do i need to re-install anything again after updating bios?

I got the FX 5900 SE video card. It's working fine but i am not sure how to check if it works as it supposes too confused I mean it displays good (but i see no difference with the onboard one of my old computer, maybe it's because I don't play games?).

I didn't get the audio card, so i guess i don't have to worry about disable anything biggrin Also, I reserved slot 2 for the Canopus card. The last slot I used for the firewire card because the plug is just right next to it..hehe...

Amadeus, if i use Canopus card, i have to disable the pnp features of the motherboard? If so, I can't use firewire/usb ports, can i? Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 16th Jan 2004, 10:13pm

Post 57 of 124

Amadeus0

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You *MIGHT* have to reinstall the drivers after a BIOS update, but with my last 2 BIOS updates, Windows found everything, so I didn't have to do that.

Setting PnP=No doesn't disable anything on the motherboard. Firewire and USB would still work.

I would update the BIOS. It can be scary the first couple of times, but it's one of those things you need to do if you're going to be building systems (even if only for yourself.)

About the IRQ=Slot thing you're 100% correct (but that's why I never mentioned IRQs, only INTs.) One of the things I get a kick out of is looking at INT routing tables (esp. lower then the 1st assignment, it's interesting how MB makers assign that type of stuff.)
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 12:52am

Post 58 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Amadeus,

I have questions about configuring the monitors and TV for my system. I got the 2 monitors working as horizonal span (which is what i want...YAY!). The thing that troubles me is that I can't seem to make my TV work together with the 2 monitors. Is it posible to setup the TV to display part of my desktop? How do you do that? Please advice. I got the FX 5900 SE video card, and it has the tv out jack.


Also, I have another question about Canopus. Up until now, I still see lots of people having problem with Canopus + PPro. I am just wondering if it's worth the money buying the card just to use with Premiere 6.5? I mean I like PPRO and i want to use it too. What do you think about this? I mean, are you successful using/building computer that has Canopus with PPRO? Please help! Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 5:45am

Post 59 of 124

Amadeus0

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It's either the second Monitor or the TV. You can't have both...Sorry. (If you could it would be "Triple head".) wink

Canopus and Premiere Pro? At THIS MOMENT(!) it's a no go. Canopus will fix these problems, but it'll take some time (it could happen tomorrow, maybe in 3 months...who knows?). It works fine with Premiere 6.5 though. If you REALLY want to you could install Premiere 6.5 and Pro, then install the Canopus drivers for both programs and try out Pro for yourself, but I'll tell you right now it's (mostly) a no go.

Well with Premiere 6.5+Canopus you get Analog In/Out, (up to) 5 Video Streams, a bunch of graphics streams, real-time transitions and filters.

Premiere Pro by itself, you get Sequences, a better interface, better titler, and a whole lot more.

I would run the Canopus Card with Premiere 6.5 and when better Premiere Pro drivers come out I'd upgrade the drivers and run Premiere Pro. In the consumer (or maybe "more Consumer") space having the latest and greatest is a big deal, but in the Pro circuit stability is first on the list (not having the latest and greatest.) So you run what's stable, then what's fast, then easy to use, after those are met you can start looking at the "What's New?" catagory.

That said Premiere Pro seems pretty stable by itself. If you really need the features of Premiere Pro, then use that and wait on buying the Storm card.

If you need Analog out, you could try hooking up your digital deck to the firewire and edit with "DV Playback mode" to see your stuff on a TV.

Last edited Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 7:26am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 7:09am

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Kid

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Yeah, you should set up the tv on th output of your dv deck or camera so you can see whats going on the tape and also to generally monitor what your footage will look like on tv.

Theres little point trying to get your desktop on the tv cos its so low res. I have an entertainment pc set up like that and its not much use as a general pc. Even at 800x600 or smaller things are not very clear.

Also having the tv as your desktop with footage showing doesnt quite look the same as a direct output.
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 7:24am

Post 61 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks again Amadeus,

I guess, i'll have to try out my system with PPRo for awhile before i decide if i should go for Canopus. If the system is good enough to run PPRO smoothly, I think I'll wait for the new driver from Canopus razz .

Anyways, so i can't use TV with Dual Head. confused Is there anything that i can add on to my video card so i can have analog out? I know i can use my digital camcorder to do the analog out, but i don't want to use it too much. It might degrade my camcorder razz .


One more thing, I am looking for the 200 GB SATA hard drives right now. And I could get one for $177 from ewiz or $170 each from newegg. I don't see many reviews about those drives from both sites. So, which one you think is better? I mean, are those good? Or Does it really matter? THanks.

Here's the link to ewiz:

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-D2000JD


and here's the link to newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-153&DEPA=0&sumit=property&catalog=14&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=4570,2982&keywords=&minprice=&maxprice=
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 7:34am

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Kid

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Having a tv plugged in won't degrade your camera, also its a good idea cos you will spot any glitches getting recorded on the tape.

Otherwise, doesn't the card do analogue out as well? Hook it up to that.
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 10:14am

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Amadeus0

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They're both the same drive. Get it from Newegg. $8 less plus no S&H. Western Digital drives are fine.
Posted: Sat, 17th Jan 2004, 6:48pm

Post 64 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Kid, thanks for the info. I know there's tv out jack for the card, but since i hooked 2 monitors to the card, the tv out jack doesn't work anymore. I don't know why. Do you? Thanks.


Amadeus, thanks. I'm gonna get from newegg then. Btw, is there a solution to the my tv out problem? Thanks.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 12:17am

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Amadeus0

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So you need some type of TV-out... Ummmm... You could get a PCI graphics card with TV-out, or you could get some type of TV-tuner/capture card. When you get the Canopus card you'll need to take that graphics/TV tuner card out.

http://www.buyaib.com/evemxse64sdp.html

The cheapest one I could find.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 1:33am

Post 66 of 124

Kid

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No I meant the canopus card will have an analogue output, you can put the tv on that.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 8:13am

Post 67 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Kid, I know the canopus card has an analogue output, but I don't think i am gonna get it anytime soon since the its driver for PPRo doesn't work that well. So i guess i have to think of something else.


Amadeus, I have some questions about that PCI video card.

1. Can it be used as a standalone video card on a different machine in case later when/if i got the Canopus card?

2. Is it compatible with my video card? And will using it slow down anything (since the system i have right now is running so smooth...razz..)?

3. What can i configure that card to do? I mean, will i be able to set that card to display part of my desktop and/or the whole desktop? I am asking because i want to use it in Premiere 6.5, Pro, and After Effects and maybe photoshop too. When using premiere, I want it to be able to display my record or source window, and when using after effects or photoshop, i want to be able to display whatever on my composition on the TV (pretty much like the Echo Fire plugin can do, except for with Premiere). Will I get to do that with this card? Do i need to get accessories to do that? Cuz, I couldn't find what is included with that card.

4. Finally, is buying on that site safe? hehe... Thanks.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 1:30pm

Post 68 of 124

Kid

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No it wont do that automatically.

If you are using premier 6.5 why not get the canopus card to use with that?

If you want to keep costs down I still think the best bet is to use the output on your camera.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 8:00pm

Post 69 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Kid, I don't want to spend big buck just to use it with premiere 6.5. I like to use PPRO too razz .

Anyways, what does that card do then? Thanks.


The problem with using my camcorder to preview on TV is that i won't be able to do that with after effects. It only works with premiere, isnt it?
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 8:39pm

Post 70 of 124

Kid

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You can get preview through firewire in AE but it requires a plugin. The most popular seems to be Echofire although if you buy a card canopus card or matrox one they both come with preview plugins for AE.

Also why does what version of premiere you are using effect getting the card? You can use it on 6.5 now and then on premiere pro later when its ready. I don't know why people are in such a rush to use premiere pro when it has so many problems still to be fixed.
Posted: Sun, 18th Jan 2004, 9:16pm

Post 71 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Kid,

The reason i am still hesitating about getting the canopus card is money razz . Well, sort of. I know that i can buy and use it with premiere 6.5 now, and update to PPRo later. But many canopus users are thinking that canopus "might" not ever fix the problem (or at least not until the new version of Edius comes out) since they're trying to promote their own NLE software (Edius). Although it's just a rumor and i don't believe it very much since canopus is a big company, I don't think they'd do that. However, what i get now from PPRO alone are acceptable. That's why getting canopus card or not still a question to me (at least at this time).

I tried out the echo fire plugin and one thing that i don't like about it is that I can't use after effects and premiere at the same time. I mean if i use echo fire plugin to get preview on TV, the preview function via firewire on Premiere is disable, or something. I can't get both at the same time even though I tried to close the project. It only works when I close either Application, which is time consuming.

Anyways, I think getting some type of video card that has TV out might be a good solution since it's cheap, according to the price Amadeus posted above. But since I don't know if it does what i need, so i still don't know what i should do. What do you think? What exactly the PCI video card above can do for what i need, or it's no good at all? Please help! Thanks.
Posted: Mon, 19th Jan 2004, 5:33pm

Post 72 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Guys? Help!
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 5:25am

Post 73 of 124

Amadeus0

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Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I've been VERY busy.

What the PCI card will do is kinda hard to say. It depends on the application, but to give you a perfectly clear idea try this: Enable TV-out on you current card. Now I know that this will disable the second monitor, but bear with me. Do you like/can use a TV-out function like the one on the GF card that you bought?

The card I recommended can be used in another system. It's basically the same card you have now, but instead of giving you the option of having the second head attach to a TV or computer monitor, you can only attach it to a TV. The first head will still attach to a computer monitor, making usable in any system with a PCI slot.

You can also only attach a TV to the card and have it work. Now before SOMEONE gets on my case smile about saying that the card I recommended is "basically the same card", please note that I only mean that in the way the TV-out functions (nothing else.) If you need analog-in, I'd recommend that you just use some type of analog to DV converter.

Now that you've tried the TV-out function on your current card does it do a good job? There is a function that you can enable that will send out to that head any video that plays in a Directshow window (Premiere uses that, Windows Media Player, and some others as well.) It has something to do with the "Video Acceleration" setting under the 'Overlay Controls"...(It's been a while since I've hooked up my TV to my computer.) Try out different settings, there's something else under there as well...I might just go back and hook up my TV to my computer just to have it running.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 5:57am

Post 74 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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I really appreciate that you still have time for my problem. Thanks alot.


So, basically you want me to try out if i like the performance my video card produces on TV. If I like it, I can get the PCI video card to give me the second monitor? Am i understanding you correctly?


Also, if I do get the PCI video card, will i be able to preview video in both AE and Premiere? Thanks.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 8:04am

Post 75 of 124

Kid

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Yeah this prolly will have the desired effect of outputting clips to the tv but the problem is that it isn't showing you the actual output so is technically useless and just looks fancy. What you see with this sort of setup will be the scaled preview window so you won't see how smoothly it plays or if you have interlacing problems or flicker in titles or the main thing which is how colour looks.

On using AE and premiere at the same time, I doubt you are gonna find any good way to preview from both because they arn't integrated and if you think about it there's no way to know which you should be previewing from. Also although windows does multitask, it isn't a good practice to use big apps simultaneously.

Premiere pro has a lot of problems itself, not just in support from hardware manufacturers like canopus. For anyone it is really a good idea to stick with 6.5 for the moment and wait till pro is more stable. I'm sure when this happens the focus for hardware manufacturers will also shift from 6.5 to pro.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 4:28pm

Post 76 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Kid,

So, using firewire cable with my digital camcorder seems to be the only choice?


What about getting the Canopus card? I know they have plugin for previewing AE and photoshop. But what about premiere? Do i still need to use my camcorder? Thanks.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 9:20pm

Post 77 of 124

Amadeus0

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ladieskiller101 Said:

If I like it, I can get the PCI video card to give me the second monitor? Am i understanding you correctly?

-and-

What about getting the Canopus card? I know they have plugin for previewing AE and photoshop. But what about premiere? Do i still need to use my camcorder?
Almost. Your main card (AGP) card would provide the display on your computer monitors, and the PCI card would give you TV-out.

With the Canopus card and Premiere you wouldn't need the Camera for analog Preview. The card comes with that (in fact it also captures analog as well.)


To Kid:

In the way I suggested, whichever application has Windows focus will output to the TV. So if you were to switch from one to the other it would show that application. Premiere Pro seems to run fine by itself. I haven't had any crashes with it (then again getting Premiere 6.0 to crash was rather difficult for me), and it runs very smoothly. Stuff takes WAY too long to render though (I need to do a test to see just how long it really renders though..it could just be what I'm feeling, not what's really going on.) The Matrox RTX.100 seems to be working fine with it (my local client only has a problem outputting to firewire, but saving a AVI and using to Premiere 6.5 or just not using the Matrox profile seems to fix that.) I really think the issue with Firewire out is caused by his MB (Asus 760MPX.)

Another thing with what I suggested is that it runs somewhat like the DVDMax mode of the Matrox G-series of cards. Not to bad. You do have a lot more control (the drivers expose a lot of functionality.)

To Ladieskiller:

Kid is right. You really shouldn't be running that many large applications at the same time.

You could always buy the Canopus card and use it for AE, Premiere 6.5, Photoshop, and just not install the drivers for Premiere Pro (You'd still be able to edit with Premiere Pro though, and have it installed on the same system.) Also some people have it working under Premiere Pro (to various degrees of sucess.)

I've only been able to find 1 person who says it runs perfectly. A few can run Premiere Pro, but they can only use Canopus transitions on the first (or in some cases 2) video tracks, Video filters don't always run in real-time. Various things. I will be handling such a setup (Canopus and Premiere Pro) in a little whlie (as in a couple of months from now), so I'll give you an update when I have to deal with it. On that same system I will be installing Premiere 6.5 and making sure that it runs well with that software before handling Premiere Pro.

Many more however, find it not to work or work very well. Using Firewire is the safest choice at this time.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 1:27am

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Kid

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Amadeus: Yes the dvdmax type of thing works fine, I have a couple of g400s myself. This will give you tv output of any movie window showing but as I said before this is a scaled up version of that window rather than the fullscreen footage so it won't be that good for a preview.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 6:37am

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SunriseSeagull

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Thanks again Kid and Amadeus,


I don't know why I can't get to display on the TV and One monitor at the same time. There's no option to enable tv out PLUS a monitor out. Also, how to set up for it to show only the direct show thingy? smile Thanks.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 10:50pm

Post 80 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Guys? Help again Please!


Also, Amadeus, I just went to a videomakers expo. There's a hardware called Pyro A/V Link. They said it can output preview of AE, premiere, or avid. What do you think about it? Will it solve the problem that i have? Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 8:43pm

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Amadeus0

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Hook up your tv to the card. Right-click on desktop select "Properties", goto the "Settings" tab, and click on the "Advanced" button. Goto the Geforce tab, goto troubleshooting, click on both check boxes, reboot. Then your computer will "see" the tv and you can configure it.


As for the Pyro: I don't see anything anywhere that says the product will allow you to preview stuff on an analog monitor. What it really seems like is that the program you want to run must support Firewire out, and the box will convert that IEEE1394 signal to analog, but your digital camera will do the same thing. (Having said that, component in/out is nice, and the "professional" version is a pretty sweet deal if you didn't already have the Adobe software.)
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 9:56pm

Post 82 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

Thanks, now i got my desktop displays on my Monitor And TV. It's set to Clone Mode. Somehow when i plug the monitor through the connector, it didn't work. But if i use it without the connector, it works. Weird confused

Anyways, now what i got on TV just like I am using 2 monitors. It didn't help much to see what my actual footage looks like on TV. You said something about configure my TV to display the "direct show" or something. How do i do that? Please help. Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 1:34am

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Amadeus0

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Right-click on desktop select "Properties", goto the "Settings" tab, and click on the "Advanced" button. Goto the Geforce tab, goto nView Display Mode. Change mode to "Clone". Goto "Full Screen Video", and set "Full screen device" to "Secondary Display".

Stop any program that you have running that uses Directshow, and then restart it. You should now see the video fullscreen on your TV. It doesn't work with everything, so you have to try out your different programs. Firewire thru your camera would be best.
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 7:33am

Post 84 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

Thanks again for your help. I got it working with Premiere. But I don't really like it though. It didn't show how the actual footage looks like if I exported it out. I guess fire wire thru camcorder is the only way to go, eh?
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 9:51pm

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Amadeus0

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Yeap. As Kid said

...this is a scaled up version of that window rather than the fullscreen footage so it won't be that good for a preview.
So Firewire would be the way to go.
Posted: Sun, 25th Jan 2004, 9:26am

Post 86 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Amadeus,

I guess I'll be using fire wire with my camcorder until I get the DVStorm then. If i buy DVStorm, will i be able to use AE and Premiere at the same time? I mean, i know it can output premiere and AE to TV, but my question is, can i open those 2 programs at the same time and switching back and forth and still be able to preview on TV without having to close one program down? I am asking because I tried Echo Fire plugin with AE, and every time i want to use fire wire thru camcorder for previewing premiere, and it just doesn't work. Thanks.

One more question about my computer, I got 3 drives in my computer now. One is ATA for windows and program, 2 SATAs (setup as Raid 0) for video. I want to use another 2 drives for other stuff, but there's no more power cord in my computer. What should I do?

PS. I got 3 hard drives, one video card, 1 dvd rom, and 1 dvd burner, and 1 floppy drive, and 3 fans. Those took up all my power cord.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 6:52pm

Post 87 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Help? frown
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 7:11pm

Post 88 of 124

Kid

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Well the good answer is dont put so many hard drives in one computer or you will have heat and power problems.

It is possible though. You can get power cable splitters.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 11:43am

Post 89 of 124

Amadeus0

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Sorry. I've spent the last few days upgrading my Linux box from ext2/3 to XFS (WHOA! talk about speed increase), kernel 2.4.20 to 2.6.2-rc2 (talk about REALLY BIG speed increase), and adding ACL (major headache in having my system mounted at startup...) but now I'm back and running MUCH faster (and on the same hardware. Now I REALLY can't wait to get that Dual/Quad Opteron setup...) wink but I'm not here to talk about that am I? smile

How big is your power supply?

I would remove the DVD-rom drive (you don't really need it due to having a DVD burner).

You don't state if you've run out of SATA power connectors, or regular power connector (or both.) If you've run out of regular power connectors you can use a power splitter. If it's SATA I haven't seen such a beast...but I bet they're out there. If you use a regular (molex) power connector, then you'll need to pick-up some regular to SATA power converters. I posted a link to such earlier in this thread.

Heat can be an issue, but the case you have should be good enough for 2 more Hard drives. I would be very careful about adding more then that though. I'll post more later. I've got to go.
Posted: Thu, 29th Jan 2004, 4:05am

Post 90 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Kid and Amadeus,

Amadeus, I am running out of regular power connectors. I still have 2 Sata slots haven't use yet. My Power Supply is 430W, and i am having 3 fans, 4 hard drives, 1 video card, 2 Dvdrom drives, and a floppy drive. I am still wanting to keep the 2 dvd roms because i still need to copy disc to disc. Having 2 drives so i don't have to insert disc after reading. So, do you think it'll be able to handle 2 more drives? Thanks.


Sorry but what is Kernal, ACL, and Dual/Quad Opteron you were talking about? hehe...I guess there's lot more i need to learn. How fast is it compare to my system? unsure .... 10 times faster? And how much is your whole system right now? Just curious, so i can save up for it razz Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 6:55am

Post 91 of 124

Amadeus0

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Rating: -1

You would need a couple of Molex power splitters, and a couple of Molex->SATA power converters.

As for the Power supply: Post the power ratings that are listed on the side of the box (i.e. 12v@15amps, 5v@20amps, so on and so forth.) I'll try to calculate just how much you need.

That said, if you aren't planning on extending your RAID to include all 4 drives (i.e. stripe all 4 drives in one raid 0/1/0+1), I don't think that you'll have problems RUNNING the system. You might have a problem booting it up, though. Power draw is much greater when starting up a system then when running. To get around this MBs have a "delay" procedure (and I think yours does as well) for powering up the SATA drives. If it does then you could use that to reduce power draw during startup.

ACL=Access Control Lists. A POSIX-compliant way of handling file access (using of all things...a list!) that is much more detailed then the usual "Owner/Group/Everyone", and "Read/Write/Execute" used in *nix operating systems. While ACL is cool for larger multi-user stuff, the Quota support (which allows me to setup how much space users can use at max) is more useful to me right now.

The large Metadata table that XFS uses is even cooler. You could write a program that converts the images in a directory (let's say Cineon -which are 10bit log- at 4k film res, which can weigh about 20MB EACH@ 24fps=480MB/sec) to something much smaller (let's say a jpeg@ 4 to 1 at 427x240) and embed that in the metadata of the file. Then you write a custom viewer so that when I go looking at that directory OVER a NETWORK (that's real key to this being so useful), I see the embeded pics. Also a script could be written so that the Metadata Proxies are loading into the program, and used instead of the full files, but I can switch at any point between the Meta-Proxies and the full files. Now you might say "well why not just create/use independent small file proxies?" That could work (things could go wrong though), but it doesn't work as well as embeding that info in the metadata table. Also with ACL & Quota support you can have super-fine grained control and stats building on a per user/group/project (in fact anything you can think of!) basis.

I'm currently waiting for the Quad Opteron MB(s) to come out. Tyan has one in the works, and it looks sweet. However the cost of 4/8-way capable CPUs are a liltte much. I run Lightwave and Digital Fusion, both of which will render over a network (LW for free, DF for $250-$500 per Box -i.e. it doesn't matter how many CPUs you have in that box they still only charge you for 1 license- not per CPU.)

A Quad Opteron MB will likely cost $1,000-$2,000. 842 CPUs (1.6Ghz w/1MB cache) cost almost $1,000 each, good case & Power Supply $300-$500, and of course any other parts needed. The big problem with this is that buying an incredable Dual Opteron MB is only $500, and the 242 CPUs (1.6Ghz w/1MB cache) are only $300 each. So for the cost of just 1-842CPU I could buy 2x242+case+Ps. So it's not really cost effective (yet!) for workstations, UNLESS you need over 16GB of Memory (not there yet! I only need about 6-8GBs at this point.) Add-on the fact that any money saved on building a Dual Opteron over a Quad setup could easily be spent on render farms, and the Dual makes more sense AT THIS MOMENT! It could change 3-4 months from now, (or whenever AMD puts out a PCI Express chip/MB makers are using it...so many reasons for delays.) In fact if this (PCI Express on an Opteron) gets delayed late this year/earily next year I'll most likely put my current dual Athlon into my Single Athlon box (running linux on it), give away my Single Athlon, buy an inexpensive Dual Opteron, use THAT to run WindowsXP-64, and just wait until next year to get a good 64-bit Linux box. If I do that then the Linux box would (most likely) be a 4-way setup.

See how hard this is. Enough to give anybody a headache. That said I'm thinking more and more that the second plan will be happening more likely then the way I have listed below (which are my current plans.)

Current Plans (most likely to change the way I see it now):

The reason for my current system being a little bit under powered is due to me waiting for Opterons (since 2002), Opteron MBs with AGP & multiple-busses (only really started to happen in LATE 2003), and now that it's so late PCI Express instead of AGP! Seesh! Also I built a separate system instead of pouring that money into my main system. By doing that I split my storage and a few other things. I'll be finishing adding to my system by May, after which I'll be building my Opteron Setup, and running Linux on it! With that out of the way smile here goes my current setup:

Dual Athlon (2x2800+ MP)/Single Athlon (1x2500+ oc'd 2.1Ghz)
600-watt PS/400 watt-PS
Zip 250 (Upgrade to Zip 750)/LS-120 (Upgrade to a Zip 250) wink
NEC ND-2500A/Pioneer A03
1.25GB of Ram (going to 2GB)/512MB (going to 2 GB)
1x15k 36GB SCSI (system)/1x7.2k 80GB IDE (system)
2x7.2k 80GB IDE (Local Stor)/1x5.4k 80GB IDE (Local Stor.)
Win2k (WinXP next week)/Linux: Fedora Core-1 with a lot of personal tweaks (including XFS and Kernel 2.6.2-rc2.)

How much did it cost? I really don't know smile I've spent a lot of money over time, I can say that. Also I don't have in those listings the software (which is really the expensive part), or the "weird" pieces of hardware like my DLT4000 drive, some of my older cards, and past systems that I've given away/lost due to lightning, and what not.

After memory upgrades for both systems, I'll be adding on a lot more storage. For the Linux box it'll be 4x160GB/250GB SATA drives in a RAID 5, and adding Gigabit Ethernet. For the WinXP box it'll be Gigabit Ethernet and 7x10k/15k SCSI hard drives (still deciding on which size/speed. I need the speed more then space -Hi-Def takes a lot of bandwidth- but 15k drives most likely wont be worth it. Their top speed is almost the same as the 10k drives, and that wont make much difference when striped in a RAID0/5.) At the end of the year I plan on adding another 7 SCSI drives to that setup.

The Opteron setup will start with about 2GB of memory (4x512 sticks) and will be upgraded early next year to 10GB (4x512MB, 4x2GB sticks.) Has onboard dual channel SCSI and quad channel SATA. When I get done my setup will be as follows:
1. Single Athlon running Linux used for email, web-browsing, and personal storage.
2. Dual Athlon running Windows used for Video/Audio Editing, and DVD Creation.
3. Dual/?Quad? Opteron for Compositing, and doubles as the local Video Storage Server.

If the change in plans happens as I'm thinking it will then be:
1. Dual Athlon running Linux used for email, web-browsing, and personal storage.
2. Dual Opteron running Windows64 used for Video/Audio Editing as well as DVD Creation.
3. Dual/Quad Opteron for Compositing and HD.

You really don't want my systems for video editing/DVD creation. They lack SSE2 (the Opterons have it though) and I'm not really in a rush to upgrade to SSE2 due to fact that I really don't spend much time editing or making DVDs. I spend my time Comping and learning.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 9:30am

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Kid

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Trying to blind us with irrelevant technobabble is lame. So you are upgrading linux, well done, do we really need to be informed of every little feature you've read about?

Please start a new thread if you want to do that so that those of use who have no interest whatsoever can avoid it.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 10:30am

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Amadeus0

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I'm not trying to blind anyone with techno-babble. If I was I wouldn't go into detail explaining that technology and some of its potential uses. That is called teaching, not blinding.

"Read about"? How about using and learning?

This thread went "OT" a long time ago if you believe my post above is. This thread started out asking about RT cards for Premiere and Avid. Now that hardware is bought that works with Premiere Pro, and will work with a Canopus card, this thread has basically ended. Anything more is OT by your definition.

In addition to that, I'm answering the questions posted by the thread-creator. In fact if you look at the beginning of my post I answer his question about needing more power connectors, and offer to calculate just how much power his system is using and if he needs a bigger power supply (unlike you!)

If anyone should get a -1 for posting something useless, it should be you. All you did was criticize someone who:

1. DID answer the question.
2. Offered to help by going thru the hassle of calculating just how much power is needed.
3. Explained some of the acronyms that I used in my last post.

All of which WERE answering HIS questions. Your post added nothing to the conversation, and in this light should be considered hypocritical.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 12:06pm

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Kid

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Yes this thread was all about discussing his hardware requirements so why did you suddenly start spouting on about linux and your hardware spec in the first place?
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 12:41pm

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Amadeus0

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In the last two posts of Page 6 I apologized for taking so long to get back to ladieskiller101, and explained what I had been doing in that time (dealing with Linux.)

In his response he asked me about my computer hardware and what I was talking about when I mentioned Linux and ACL.

In the 1st post of page 7, I answered his questions about my hardware (albeit I went on for a while), and attempted to answer about Linux, XFS, and ACL. I also answered his question about adding the hard drive.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 12:47pm

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Kid

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Yeah he only asked because you set him up to ask. You could have just said you were upgrading linux but no, you set him up to ask so that you could start rabbiting on about linux and boast about your machines without it being to obvious that that was what you were doing. Being sneaky about it doesn't justify it, it just makes it all the worse.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 1:58pm

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Amadeus0

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You're assuming my motivation. I talk about hardware because I enjoy the little details (and great big picture) of it. I like talking about software because I really like the idea of having something that makes these interesting inventions work in new and different ways. You are right in that I could have just said "I was dealing with Linux", but I was so happy that I'd gotten my data back, done a major kernel upgrade (and had gotten thru it without much difficulty), changed filesystems and learned alot while doing it that I talked about it. Some would think that I went on (I know you do), but I was really happy. That's all it was. It isn't that I brag about it. It's that this (technology, video, film, computers, and everything related to them) I truly love dealing with and enjoy learning, messing with, and (most importantly) using.

If you love something (or someone) you tend to talk about it (or them.)

Also I'm not boasting about my machines. In fact I'm a little bit embarressed about how under-powered they are (and I alluded to that in my 1st post of page 7.) I don't get all tied up in cost or specifications one way or another. If something costs $80 (AlamDV anyone?) I have no problems buying it, or using it in a professional enviroment. If something costs $5,000 (Digital Fusion anyone?) I feel the same about that software as I do about AlamDV. If it gets the job done, then buy & use it. Same thing for hardware. My stuff gets the job done (even if it's a little slow.) Do I want to upgrade? Sure. Will I? Yes. When/How? That's what a budget is for.

My Identity isn't tied-up in what I own or even use. I have a Geforce Ti4200. Not very new/fast is it? But it's about as fast as a GF fx5700 Ultra when it comes to pushing raw polygons around, though it loses to that card in every other area. If you think about it though, all I do with this card is push polygons around (I really don't need the Pixel or Vertex Shaders), so it gets the job done and I'm happy. So I keep it, and keep using it until something better/more useful comes along. Am I embarressed? No. Am I bragging? No. I'm simply stating what I have and why I have it. I'm pretty logical, and tend to only buy stuff if I have good reason for.

If you're construing my enthusiasm as bragging, or worse yet, trying to set someone up, and then tell about it, then it's your own cynical view of my posts. It has no resemblance to reality. (As I said earlier, you're assuming my motivations.) If I felt the need to brag or set someone up, ladieskiller wouldn't be the one (or you for that matter.) I have enough computer literate friends that I could try and wow with knowledge, and you know what? I don't.

Though if i 'wowed' one of them it would mean a lot more to me then "impressing" someone I don't know over the internet, on some message board.

You're treating ladieskiller101 like a child here as well. He CHOOSE to ask. He could have not asked, but he did. Who are you to tell him not ask such questions? (Or to tell me not to answer them.) If he doesn't want to know he can tell me (or not ask), he doesn't need you to. It's not your thread. (If it is anyone's it's his.) Again you're assuming my motivations, and trying to read you're clouded and cynical assumptions/judgements about me into my posts. None of what you're refering to is in there. You're imagining it.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 2:27pm

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Kid

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I'm not treating anyone like a child, twisting the thread to some random topic is a pain in the ass whatever you motivation. Your motivation is therefore irrelevant so even if I was assuming your motivation (which I'm not sure you really had to tell me 5 times) it wouldn't matter.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jan 2004, 8:45pm

Post 99 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Chill out guys! If you don't, you might forget to help my problems biggrin .


Amadeus, here's the info i saw on my power supply box.



AC Input: 115V/10A, 230V/5A, 60Hz/50Hz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DC Output ! +5V ! +12V ! +3.3V ! -5V ! -12V ! +5V SB !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAX ! 36A ! 20A ! 28A ! 0.5A ! 1.0A ! 2.0A !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MIN ! 0A ! 0.8A ! 0A ! 0A ! 0A ! 0A !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+5V, +12V and +3.3V Max Load 410W


That's the whole chart razz . Anyways, can you show me how to calculate it too. Thanks.


PS: In case you forget, right now, i have 3 fans, two 200GB Sata Drives set up as Raid 0, one 120 GB ATA drive for system and one 200 GB ATA drive for storage, one dvd rom, one dvd burner, one floppy drive, and a video card. Thanks again.
Posted: Wed, 4th Feb 2004, 1:18am

Post 100 of 124

Amadeus0

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Volts x Amps = Wattage. Most devices will report on a sticker either the watts used and/or the volt/amps. 12v is usually used for motor devices like fans, hard drives, CD/DVD drives (including burners), and your CPU. 5v for disk drives (floppy, hard disk, CD/DVD, Zip, LS-120), MB componets, and PCI cards. The 3.3v line is used for memory, PCI cards and MB componets.

Since you're adding only hard drives we'll calculate only the 12v and 5v lines.

(Please note that the below figures are only estimates, and some devices could use more or less power. That said, we'll calculate the different lines individually) :

For 12v you have 20 Amps (12x20=240 Watts):

P4 @ 2.8Ghz = 85+ Watts
Motherboard = 10 Watts (Approx., don't really have a solid figure here)
GF FX5900 (12v line only) = 15-20 Watts (Approx., don't really have a solid figure here)
4x7200rpm Hard Drive (12v line only) = (Start-up) 62.4 Watts-Max/ (Normal Usage) 24.6 Watts
DVD-ROM (12v line only) = 16 Watts
DVD-RW (12v line only) = 10 Watts
3xFans = 12 Watts (Note that some fans use up to 15 Watts each.)

Total Current 12v usage =
215.4 Watts (start-up)
-or-
177.6 Watts ('Normal' usage)

To add 2 more Hard drives 12v usage would climb to:
246.4 Watts (start-up)
-or-
189.9 Watts ('Normal' usage)


For the 5v line you have 36 Amps (5x36=180 Watts):

Motherboard = 15 Watts (Approx., don't really have a solid figure here)
GF FX5900 (5v line only) = 25 Watts (Approx., don't really have a solid figure here)
4x7200rpm Hard Drive (5v line only) = (Start-up) 13 Watts-Max/ (Normal Usage) 14.5 Watts
DVD-ROM (5v line only) = 4 Watts
DVD-RW (5v line only) = 8 Watts
Floppy = 5 Watts

Total Current 5v usage =
70 Watts (start-up)
-or-
71.5 Watts ('Normal' usage)

To add 2 more Hard drives 5v usage would climb to:
76.5 Watts (start-up)
-or-
78.75 Watts ('Normal' usage)

(Just to be complete)
Adding 2 more PCI Cards would be (5v line only):

Sound Blaster Live! Platinum = 10 Watts (Approx.)
Canopus DVStorm = (Really Unknown, but my best guess) Max 20 Watts


It seems that your power supply should be able to handle the 2 extra drives ONLY if you can delay the power up /start-up time of some of your hard drives. Start-up is your only problem. After that you have more then enough power leftover to get thru the day. If after adding these 2 other drives you start hearing drives "clicking" or powering down and up again then your power supply is too small, and you'll have to get a bigger one.

The DVD Drives & Floppy figures are taken from my stuff. The hard drive info I got from Western Digital's website. Your system may use more or less power, but I think that this is a pretty good estimate.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 7:30am

Post 101 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

Thanks alot for the calculation. I am printing it out for later references biggrin .

One more question (wonder when this thread's gonna end crazy ), I am planing to get a rip drive. Any suggestions? I'd like to have an external one since there are 2 computers in my house plus I want to save the power supply for other things. Do you think it's a good idea? Or do you prefer internal drives? Please advice soon (this is for class requirement razz ). Thanks.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 2:16pm

Post 102 of 124

Amadeus0

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Rip drive? Please clarify.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 4:03pm

Post 103 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Sorry, I mean Zip Drives.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 4:42pm

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Amadeus0

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External drives are always nice to have around. Zip 750 are the latest drives, external USB version costs about $70+S/H. Alittle note about Zip750 drives: They can read and write Zip 720 & 250 disks, but can only read Zip100 disks, so if you need to write to a Zip100 disk you might be better off getting a Zip250 drive.

http://www.shentech.com/io75usb20exz.html
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 5:03pm

Post 105 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

Thanks alot for reply so quick. I reallly appreciate it. Right now, the zip media school provides me is zip100. Do you think the zip drive at school can write/read zip 250 or 750? Another word, can a zip100 drive write/read zip250 or 750 media? I hope you understand what i mean. BTW, will remanufactured drive be ok?


P.S: So, Iomega is the only choice to go? Thanks.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 5:15pm

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Kid

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Iomega are the only company that do zip drives. Zip100 drives, the original cannot read or write 250 or 750 disks.

Zip drives are very slow and outdated nowadays and 100Mb is pretty small with todays file sizes. What might be a much better option, if the machines have usb, is to get one of those usb compact flash keyfob things that you can just plug in.
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 6:07pm

Post 107 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks alot, kid.

I personally don't like zip drive either but school still uses it, and in order to get my work done, I need to bring some stuff home and do it. The only thing i can do that is using zip disk. confused

I am still trying to find out if my school is using zip100 or zip250/750. Cuz I dont want to buy something that my school's drive can't read/write.

BTW, what is the "usb compact flash keyfob" are you talking about? Can it read zip disk? Please advice. Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 6th Feb 2004, 4:51am

Post 108 of 124

Amadeus0

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Your school is using either Zip100 or Zip250 drives if they can write to a Zip100 disk. To find out:
Log-on to a computer, goto start->settings->control Panel->Adminstrative Tools->Computer Mangement. Select "Device Manager." Under "Disk Drives" it should tell you which hardware is installed. (This is only for Windows 2000 and XP.)

Zip 750 & 250 drives take forever to read a Zip100 disk. Zip250 drives take a long time to write to a Zip 100 disk (even longer then a Zip100 drive takes, and boy is that LONG!)

You could ask the school if it's ok for you to hook-up your Zip750 portable drive, and copy the files that way. If the school has drivers that are anywhere near new (read early 2003), then those drivers should support the USB Zip 750.

The warranty on the open-box drive is one year. That should be long enough.

Kid's USB keychain drive idea would be the ultimate way to go. It'll cost a few bucks but it's really simple, fast, and small. If you can afford one (and it'll fit the way you need to transport files) look into it. Also see if they'll let you hook it up to their computers.

If all of the above won't work, then here's the link for a USB Zip100 and USB Zip250 drive respectively:

http://www.shentech.com/io100exusbpo.html

http://www.pcmicrostore.com//PartDetail.aspx?q=c:36120;p:381150
Posted: Fri, 6th Feb 2004, 6:31am

Post 109 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Thanks Amadeus,

Do I have to install the drivers in order for the zip drive to work? I mean, isn't it like firewire when you can jsut hook it up and it runs?

Also, what is "usb compact flash"? I did a research, and it's some types of mass storage device. But what exactly is the media? I mean, is it like zip drive, cd rom? or just memory? Please advice. If you would, please post some links for the usb compac flash thingy too. Thanks.
Posted: Fri, 6th Feb 2004, 10:22pm

Post 110 of 124

Amadeus0

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Do I have to install the drivers in order for the zip drive to work? I mean, isn't it like firewire when you can jsut hook it up and it runs?
Depends. The only thing I can say here is that you'll have to try it.

USB COMPACT FLASH:

The device hooks up to your USB port, and draws power from it (so you don't need an external power supply.) If you've used a digital camera with a flash memory card then you've basically used the technology that is in these cards. It is non-violatle (sp?) memory, that has a USB interface. As for some links... I'll post some later.
Posted: Sat, 7th Feb 2004, 1:15am

Post 111 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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I am still confused. So, what is the media for the compact flash thingy? What do you use to transfer or store stuff? Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 7th Feb 2004, 2:25pm

Post 112 of 124

Kid

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It is just memory in a little keyfob type thing. You plug it in and you can use it like a little harddisk or something. They can store upto 1Gb although only upto 256Mb is a reasonable price right now.

They work on any computer which has USB, you just plug it in and it works. No need to set up any drivers or anything. Very handy for transfering files about.

I'm not sure if they have an official name but some places are calling them pen drives. Sony do one called a Microvault so you could search for that and see what others come up in the same category.
Posted: Mon, 9th Feb 2004, 9:03am

Post 113 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Kid, thanks for your reply. From what you describe, it looks like it's just an external hard drive, isn't it? I mean, if i got my external hard drive and using windows xp, I just plug and play. There's no need to install any drivers. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Anyways, I am having a BIG PROBLEM with my Raid 0 now. Hope you guys can help me out on this. I am so desperate confused . When i first got my computer setup, I install all the drivers for my motherboard and graphic card, except the drivers for Raid (since I didn't have any drive to configure that way). Everything was working fine. Then, I got my SATA drives and successfully configure those in Raid 0. It was working fine until today. I had some problem uninstalling and installing PPRO, so I decided to format my computer. This is where the problem begins.

After I format my hard drive (not the drive configured as Raid 0), I install windows xp the way i usually do (pop in the cd and run installation) and update it to service pack 1. Then I install the intel chipset driver that comes with the cd and all the drivers I needed (just like I did the first time). I was successful installing everything EXCEPT the INTEL APPLICATION ACCERLERATOR Driver. I believe that's the driver that helps my computer to reconize my Raid 0. The proof is that, since I wasn't able to install that driver, I didn't see my Raid 0 drive in my computer. I went to Disk Management, and the Raid 0 is listed but it says the drive is offline and Fail.

The weird thing is the failure in installing the Intel Application Accerlerator Drive. When I tried to install it, it gives me this error message: "Incompatible Hardware. This software is not supported on this chipset. Please select "yes" to view the Readme file for a list of supported products. Refer to section 2 titled "System Requirements."" So, I went to the manual that comes with the cd and it says the solution when you get this error message is (I quote): "Resolution: This issue is resolved by installing the Intel® Application Accelerator RAID Edition on a system with a supported Intel chipset. "

My motherboard is intel 875P chipset, and it didn't list in the compatible chipset (for the Application Accelerator Driver0 in the intel website. So I tried to download and run Application Accelerator RAID Edition and install. I got the same error message. Any suggestions on this problem, guys? I was able to install the driver comes with my cd before. Why can't i install it now? If my chipset isn't compatible, why could i install it before? I did go to bios and configure the setting for the drive as the manual says (Such as: change mode to "S-ATA", set "S-ATA as Raid",...) and still have problem. I went to asus website to download drivers but i wasn't able to. I dont' know why. But I checked and the drivers version on my cd are pretty much the same with drivers listed on asus website.

I am so desperate now. I had lots of stuff I can't effort to loose on the raid 0. Is there anyway I can make my computer reconize my drive? Please help. Thanks alot.


P.S: In case you guys forgot, I got the P4C800-E Delute motherboard. Also, when the computer is starting up, the fastbuild utility says that my Raid 0 is functional. Hope this give you some hints. Please get back to me ASAP. Thanks.
Posted: Mon, 9th Feb 2004, 4:43pm

Post 114 of 124

Kid

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Its like an external hard drive except it is memory so it has no moving parts and is the size of a keyfob. Much more convenient than lugging a hard drive or zip drive about.
Posted: Mon, 9th Feb 2004, 4:50pm

Post 115 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Kid, ic, thanks for the info.

What about my other problem? Do you have any suggestions? Please help! Thanks alot.
Posted: Mon, 9th Feb 2004, 5:05pm

Post 116 of 124

Kid

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No sorry, while I am very familiar with raid setups I am not familiar with that particular type of hardware.
Posted: Mon, 9th Feb 2004, 11:59pm

Post 117 of 124

Amadeus0

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First thing: Your data is safe.

If you goto computer management/device manager what do you see listed under "SCSI and RAID Controllers", and do you have any componets listed with a yellow question mark?
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 12:50am

Post 118 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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It's okay, kid!

Amadeus, I went there and there are 2 components under it. And none is under the yellow question marks. That's just weird. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 2:19am

Post 119 of 124

Amadeus0

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What devices do you have listed under there?
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 4:25am

Post 120 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus, what I see under there are:
. WinXP Promise FastTrak 378 (tm) Controller.
. WinXP Promise Raid Console SCSI Processor Device.
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 5:18am

Post 121 of 124

Amadeus0

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If you hook-up your hard drives to the Intel controller, then the system isn't seeing the Intel controller and that's why you're getting that "Need valid chipset" error. Check the BIOS to see that the Intel SATA is enabled by going to the "IDE Configuration", and make sure that:

Onboard IDE Operate Mode: Enhanced Mode
Enhanced Mode Support On: S-ATA
Configure S-ATA as RAID: Yes
Serial ATA BOOTROM: Enabled
IDE Detect Time Out: 25 (or higher)

Now you mentioned that the FastBuild Utility says' that it can see the RAID0. Do you have the hard drives hooked up to the Promise Controller and not the Intel SATA? Did you move the hard drives from the Intel to the Promise controller, or were they on the Promise all along?

If they've been on the Promise all along then make sure that the cables are plugged-in all the way, and try uninstalling the FastTrak Controller drivers, then re-installing them. Then (if they're still not listed in Disk Mangement) look in the Device Manager, and look under "Disk Drives" and report what is listed there.
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 5:52am

Post 122 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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I checked the BIOS settings and it's exactly like this:

Onboard IDE Operate Mode: Enhanced Mode
Enhanced Mode Support On: S-ATA
Configure S-ATA as RAID: Yes
Serial ATA BOOTROM: Enabled


Except, the IDE Detect Time Out: is 35, but I don't think it makes a difference, right?


I am not sure if it's on the Promise Controller or the Intel SATA. I hooked the drives on to the connectors on the motherboard where it says SATA for Raid...I did what the manual says in the Promise Raid Configuration. SO, I think it's on the Promise Controller. Hope I am right.

I didn't remove or touch anything inside the computer from when it's still good up until now (The raid is not the reason I format my computer. It's still good even before I format). The drives are plugged in the motherboard all along.

I did uninstall the Fast Trak Controller. After I uninstalled it, the SCSI and RAID Controllers disappears in the Console Tree (other words, the WinXP Promise Raid Console SCSI Processor Device is gone too). So, (without restarting), I clicked on Scan new Hardware. XP automatically install the drivers for the FastTrak, so i when to update it using the driver from the CD.

Finally I went back to the device manager and check and I see:
. WinXP Promise FastTrak 378 (tm) Controller.
. WinXP Promise Raid Console SCSI Processor Device.

without any yellow question marks, just like before I uninstalled it.

Any advices? Thanks
Posted: Tue, 10th Feb 2004, 6:27am

Post 123 of 124

Amadeus0

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I'm on the AOL IM now under the name "amadeus0", IM me.

What do you have listed under "disk drives" in Device Manager?
Posted: Mon, 16th Feb 2004, 12:58am

Post 124 of 124

SunriseSeagull

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Hi Amadeus,

About the networking thingy, is it ok if i use wireless router? Do I need anything beside the router? Any suggestions? Thanks.