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Stories...Plot...Something a bit Diffrent

Agree?

Yes85%[ 17 ]
No15%[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 20

Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:07pm

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AndrewtheActorMan

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Hey,

I was thinking. When i was reading the latests posts & topics, I see that many people are doing a "COOL ACTION GUN-FIGHT MOVIE." I looked in the Cinema, and there are 206 movies under the muzzle flash FX section. Now, I know that not all the movies in the muzzle flash section are "GUNFIGHT" movies...but! Many of them use a gun...

Anyway, my point is, some of these films - to me - seem to use a gun, just to say "wow, I have a prop/airsoft gun that i can use in my movies." I almost cried (not really, but still..) when in Fallen Angel, the guy pulls out a gun. Sometimes, when Tarn updates the movies, all these "GUNFIGHT" movies just pop up.

It just gets a bit old. All I am saying, to make this a creative, entertaining, growing community, lets try and do something creative, out-of-the-box, not just your average "GUNFIGHT" think up a story, a interesting story.

NOW ALSO! I am not saying to completly forget gunfight movies...etc. Its just, well, you know. Lets just try to spread our variaty of films.


That is all, just a thought.

Hope you can see where I am coming from - and this is not trying to rase a debate - I just wanted to suggest this.


Andrew biggrin
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:14pm

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4036Douglas

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Yeah... I'm working on a sitcom like thing with all my sisters in it... And it's for the correct age group too! It has a basic plot. I'll try and upload it soon. It's a little different then all these, "boy has a gun, shoots other guy, break into big action scene" things.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:14pm

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Gibs

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I can see where you are coming from, and I agree with you in that there are a lot of movies based around guns. But when a person says "COOL ACTION GUN MOVIE", it seems to me like that's their starting point, not plot.

For example, let's say you wanted to create an action movie. Before you'd thought of any solid ideas, you know it's going to have guns (let's face it-not many of us are good at hand-to-hand fighting, and so guns are a natural way to go). It's easy to post "I'm working on an action movie with guns" when you have few ideas, but still want it known that you're making a movie. I assume (actually, I'm more hoping) that most of those people are working on a decent movie idea, and aren't just throwing together a random movie with guns.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:15pm

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LtMcMurphy

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If people don't do a gunfight movie, then they'll do a fantasy adventure with lightning bolts and such.

Right now, AlamDV doesn't have the option of adding a convincing story to your movie.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:20pm

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ssjaaron

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you took the words out of my mouth wink
even though in the past i have made gun movies, i am trying not to make gun movies. but i have one left. i am most excited for a movie i have not shot and it is called "Legacy of X-Star" wink
peace out
PS: amen to your post andrew, amen. smile
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:22pm

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4036Douglas

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Sure, I understand the effects are a little limited to action scenes, but if you think creativly, you can come up with good ideas with plots. I'm not bashing on those movies or anything... I make them too.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:22pm

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Brettsta

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Rating: +1

LtMcMurphy wrote:

Right now, AlamDV doesn't have the option of adding a convincing story to your movie.
If your not creative it doesnt. AlamDV doesnt make stories. Nothing does... except you! You have to be able to use the effects wisely and make it convincing. It aint alam, its the person behind it.
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:30pm

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CX3

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LtMcMurphy, Alam will add a convincing story for the basis of what I plan to do this quarter. I agree with Brettsta, ya gotta be creative with it. wink
Posted: Tue, 20th Jan 2004, 11:38pm

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JohnCarter

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It's not because it's fantasy that it can't have a decent plot and story... I don't believe that one second. I think that was Andrew is trying to say is this:

There is a lot of pointless one guy shooting at another guy/group of guys without rime or reason and the only way to tell who is the good guy is because he has a cool Matrix black trenchcoat...

I am exagerating here but I hope you see my point. A lot of stuff on the site doesn't go much further than a test for AlamDV and a lot barely qualify as movies...

Arktic recently did a Terminator test that was thankfully more than one static shot with effects. It wasn't innovative or anything but he did apply some storytelling skills and it made it more interesting to watch than all those other pointless tests on the site. I hate tests because if you've seen the plugins, you can pretty imagine what it'll do! When I wrote my film, I looked at plugins that I thought would be cool and integrated them into the story - I didn't need to do ten thousand tests! I shot the footage then applied the effect.

But I digress once again. More plots and stories, less pointless stuff would definitely be welcome!
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 12:06am

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Mantra

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Well put, John. Effects, in my opinion, are for embelishing a story or adding the touch of 'movie magic' that makes the difference between boring and interesting, being able to tell/sell your story. But, taken on their own, effects (as tests) are not that interesting unless they are freaking amazing or in context, like Arktics nifty little Terminator test.

Good post Andrew!
P.S For those who want to make 'gun' movies, if you want to look cool, try NOT holding the gun on it's side. At least that way it'll look like you have fired a real gun before. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 12:18am

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Marek

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I agree completely Andrew.
Though minimum plot/maximum shooting was always my favorite type of film to make, I've been moving away from that lately and actually make films that include plots. Hopefully The Chain Effect (my first major plotted film) will be out soon to show you guys what i mean.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 12:50am

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AndrewtheActorMan

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Wow guys! Didnt know I would get that much of a response. Just one thing, as of now, i noticed that someone voted 'no'. I am NOT saying thats dumb or wrong, but i was wondering if we could here your side biggrin

Andrew biggrin
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 1:22am

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Gibs

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I already posted it. But I'll clarify a bit.

Yes, I agree, there are many, many gun movies on this site. But just because a movie has guns in it doesn't mean you should think any differently about it. Remember lightsabers? Let's try not to let that happen again.

When you said that some people use guns just because they have them, I agree that that is lame. But sometimes it's a good idea for a first or second longer movie to be something simpler. Not all of us here canwrite a great script, and make a decent drama movie. Action is the natural way to go with a program like AlamDV, and sometimes it's just easier think of ideas based on what you can do at least fairly well. And then someday, after gaining more experience, move on to more complicated stuff.

(Hope I didn't confuse anyone)

So I guess my vote is sort of in the middle.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 1:29am

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Colincsl

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I deffinatly agree with you. I don't see why there aren't more comedies and stuff like that on this site. I think it would be awesome if there were Monty Python esque movies and stuff like that. It shows much more skill if you make a comedy or some other kind of movie, rather than a gunfight. Gunfights can be cool sometimes, but they get boring rather fast once you see a lot of them.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 2:07am

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Aculag

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There have been an increasing number of movies that are not effects driven recently though, haven't there? And now with the release of Chromanator, I'm sure there'll be even more. There are so many subtle things you can do to a movie to a movie to enhance it. For instance, there are a couple mattes in The Low Down Of It, and you can't tell they're there, but they are. Just an example.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 2:10am

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AndrewtheActorMan

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Not saying there arent any aculag, just saying that there are lots of these gunfight movies...i cant wait to see non-fx driven ones...


Andrew biggrin

Last edited Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:01am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 2:56am

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LtMcMurphy

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Well, my little comment came out real bad. Here's what I tried so hard to say, but couldn't: Alam doesn't have a plugin that adds a convincing story line, as in, you can't make a bland movie and expect Alam to make it awesome. Now I'm going to retire to my cave.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:00am

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Aculag

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AndrewtheActorMan wrote:

i cant wait to see my non-fx driven ones...
You haven't seen your own movies?
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:01am

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AndrewtheActorMan

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oops! hehe...stupid keyboard...


I am editing it now!

Andrew biggrin
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:17am

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Colincsl

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Murphy, Alam isn't supposed ot make the movie, YOU, are supposed to make the movie. You can make an awesome movie with a good script without using alam. You can't make a good film with a bad script while using alam.

In summary- It's only as good as your script and abilities are.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:33am

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JohnCarter

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LtMcMurphy wrote:

Well, my little comment came out real bad. Here's what I tried so hard to say, but couldn't: Alam doesn't have a plugin that adds a convincing story line, as in, you can't make a bland movie and expect Alam to make it awesome. Now I'm going to retire to my cave.
That made a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying. wink
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 3:34am

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JohnCarter

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Colincsl wrote:

Murphy, Alam isn't supposed ot make the movie, YOU, are supposed to make the movie. You can make an awesome movie with a good script without using alam. You can't make a good film with a bad script while using alam.

In summary- It's only as good as your script and abilities are.
I believe that was Murphy's point, mate. He just didn't express himself very well the first time around.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 4:10am

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elementcinema

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Id like to point our a little something as well..its not the easiest thing in the world to make a movie with alot of dialoque. Sound is very inconvenient to make. not alot of ppl have mics to work with. so a story driven movie can be hard to make with crappy sound or none at all. but with gun sound fx that are easy to come by than other sound fx for some plug-ins that alam dv has then you are obviously going to see "gun action movies or lightsabre movies" thats just another i wanted to point out. and when you live in america ofcourse guns are going to be related some how. havent you seen bowling for columbine? biggrin
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 4:55am

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JohnCarter

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elementcinema wrote:

Id like to point our a little something as well..its not the easiest thing in the world to make a movie with alot of dialoque. Sound is very inconvenient to make. not alot of ppl have mics to work with. so a story driven movie can be hard to make with crappy sound or none at all. but with gun sound fx that are easy to come by than other sound fx for some plug-ins that alam dv has then you are obviously going to see "gun action movies or lightsabre movies" thats just another i wanted to point out. and when you live in america ofcourse guns are going to be related some how. havent you seen bowling for columbine? biggrin
You do have a point about the sound but plot and story DOESN'T necessarily need a lot of dialogue, heck sometimes you can shoot an entire film without one line of dialogue.

However, plot and story means a lot more than point a gun and shoot, which we seem to get a lot of. Or lightsaber banging which eventually comes down to the same thing.

Bang as many sabers as you want and shoot through enough people to populate a small country if you wish but show us/tell us WHY it's happening!

I think that's the point of this post.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 5:02am

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Brettsta

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Mantra wrote:

you want to look cool, try NOT holding the gun on it's side. At least that way it'll look like you have fired a real gun before. biggrin
I've never understood why people hate it so much, especially after seeing will smith fire the gun on the side in Bad Boys 2. If they do it in a real movie, why cant we do it here?
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 5:08am

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jstow222

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My current project witch I hope to upload mid-March is a comedy, I dont want to give away too many details, but its looking to be about 30 mins in length right now. Expect total nonsense.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 9:05pm

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Aculag

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JohnCarter wrote:

heck sometimes you can shoot an entire film without one line of dialogue.
Yes, in fact, in film school, they teach you to make films without dialogue before anything else, because telling a visual story is one of the most important things you can learn.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 9:46pm

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Gibs

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All of this stuff you are all saying is good. But remember that this is a special effects driven site (at least as of now). What would be the point of buying Alamdv and then busting your butt to create a good dramatic movie with minimal effects? I'm not saying that effects driven movies are always good, but it's not good for everyone to start looking down on them, especially if they are done well.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 9:53pm

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jstow222

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Nobody is looking down on them, but as a community, its good to grow and make better, varied films together.
Posted: Wed, 21st Jan 2004, 10:44pm

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elementcinema

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yeah i dont see this as an effects community really..i see it as a filmmaking community in general. for example look at aculag's new movie he posted. no effects once so ever. and it was great! after awhile and once you get better at making movies you start making more and more story driven ones. you get tired of those same effects after so long..im at that stage right now and trying to put together a team for a good dramatic film.
the guns and lightsabers are used too much. but its a way for ppl to practice their methods and then discovering new ones.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 8:51pm

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Two Gunned Saint

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I wouldn't mind that much, however it's extremely rare to see a decent gunfight. Out of all the movies on this site "Pharmacide" had a pretty decent one as did "DXM" , Sollthar's are by far the best gunfights in town "Nightcast:Prologue" and the laser fight in "Turicon" rank as the greatest shooty action sequences on here. "Redfruit" and "The Final Assassin" are also good.

I don't really object to people putting these movies on here, if I think it looks poor I won't watch it, simple. However to the people who do this, please put some effort into it, at least make it a good sequence.

I fell slightly hypocritical as there's several large scale gunbattles in my upcoming film, however I've spent alot of years watching the greatest gunfights in movies to study them, what makes them tick and I've been over a year planning some of the action scenes in my film; so I hope they'll be impressive. Also my film has a plot, it's character driven, and I've always wanted to make a gunplay film so it's too late to back out now.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 9:06pm

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Mantra

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Brettsta wrote:

Mantra wrote:

you want to look cool, try NOT holding the gun on it's side. At least that way it'll look like you have fired a real gun before. biggrin
I've never understood why people hate it so much, especially after seeing will smith fire the gun on the side in Bad Boys 2. If they do it in a real movie, why cant we do it here?
To clarify my point, firing guns on their side in movies has been done and done and done.... My point wasn't to say people shouldn't do it, it was saying that in my opinion it 'looks alot cooler' not to do it as it's been done so much. Holding guns on their side just looks dated to me, plus the fact you'd be hard pressed to hit anything firing that way,it just looks silly in my opinion.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 9:26pm

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TAP2

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"Cool Action Gun Movies" are 'cool' when done well.

Andrew, you're right in saying there are too many gun films... but I think there's nothing wrong with involving guns in your films if you can make it look good.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 12:56am

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Crawford

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Brettsta wrote:

Mantra wrote:

you want to look cool, try NOT holding the gun on it's side. At least that way it'll look like you have fired a real gun before. biggrin
I've never understood why people hate it so much, especially after seeing will smith fire the gun on the side in Bad Boys 2. If they do it in a real movie, why cant we do it here?
If you want to look like a stupid thug who is more dangerous to the people around his target than his real target, then hold the gun sideways.

If you want to look like someone who knows what they're doing, and is dangerous to those he wants to be dangerous to, hold it the right way.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:18am

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FiveIronFrenzy

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My words are taken!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is what i was thinking, that is why my film is going to be very different!

cool
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 2:28pm

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Mellifluous

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I don't mind gunfights in movies, as long as they do something different from the norm, & yes, if the film explains why an elaborate gun fight is necessary.

I liked LA Confidential's closing shoot-out, the atmospherics of the scene helped.

Equilibrium was good too, because it did something totally different, treating the gun like something that extended beyond its physicality.

But I agree it's time for something different.
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 11:11pm

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Kaede11

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i just have to say who the Fu*k basuis there movie AROUND the effects and tells a story from effects? NO no no. You make the story then load it into alam and search for a plug-in that you want for the effect.....that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Bashing alam for you fault.
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 11:35pm

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Brettsta

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I've noticed the change in recent movies in the cinema and I personally like it a lot! Now I gotta try it, but this is hard to do because i t takes some thinking wink .