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Michael Moore...any thoughts about him?

Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 3:36am

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elementcinema

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Im a big fan of michael moore, he brings alot to the eye of society. but i was wondering if there were any thoughts from you guys about him?
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 3:41am

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BackOfTheHearse

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He has a lot of great ideas, and I thought Bowling for Columbine was brilliant. However, some of his actions are a little harsh. Like blaming Charlton Heston for that girl's death and taunting him with her photo. That was uncalled for and not needed in any fashion. It's one thing to have an opinion on something, it is a completely different thing to do something of that nature.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 3:44am

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elementcinema

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I completely agree. it wasnt necessary at all..but he still brought up alot of good points that were brought up to my attention that i didnt know before hand!
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 3:56am

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Aculag

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I haven't seen any of his stuff, and I hear it's good stuff. My parent's both liked Bowling For Columbine, and they have the same views as I do, But I just don't like the guy. Something about him...
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 3:59am

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elementcinema

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you should really check out his stuff..he may be a little i dunno..to americans it might be a little harsh with the things he talks about because its pretty much bashing america in general from the inside seeing how he is an american. so i can see how americans wouldnt really like him..
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:00am

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elementcinema

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here is his acceptance speech for i cant remember what..hehe

"On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to - they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fiction of duct tape or fiction of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much."

i found it quite amusing but towards the end ppl started booing.. confused
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:03am

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Aculag

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That's one reason I don't like him. Because he feels that it's ok to do something like that. "Oh, I just won an academy award for a documentary, I'm above it!". You know what I mean?
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:07am

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elementcinema

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yeah totally. he does think too much of himself. there are ALOT of ppl just like him out there and who have the same opinions he just so happens to be a filmmaker..its still enjoyable and you should consider checking it out before making judgements (im not trying to be mean). but i do agree with you. he reminded me of eminem winning an award and making an acceptance speech like that..not cool
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:10am

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Aculag

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Totally. Yeah, I'll check out his stuff though. I can't say I won't watch it just because I don't respect him as a person. I respect all filmmakers.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:12am

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elementcinema

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right on but i dont really see him as a real filmmaker he is just a guy with an opinion and a camera and who knows his shit
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:12am

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Aculag

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Ah... Well a DOCUMENTARY filmmaker then. Heh.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:14am

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elementcinema

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yeah...i guess
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:24am

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Bowie

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He is an idiot. Bowling for Columbine was fiction, a political statement only.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:25am

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elementcinema

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i never said anything..i said that michael moore has some good points but doesnt mean that i agree with any of them or that he is right..but who are you to come and jump to conclusions over a discussion abouta guerilla liberal documentary filmmaker..i dont see where any of that came from..and study election laws? what are you talking about? and an excuse to get my opion out about what? i wasnt stating anything..was i? i dont think so. if anything all i said was that michael moore brought up some cool and interesting points and i never said which ones and then i told aculag to check out some of his work. that is all. i cant believe how you came about on this..wierd
you compare my words to words of an al franklin book? excuse me? you have no idea what you are talking about!

EDIT: whoa..where did your post go?
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:27am

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BackOfTheHearse

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I myself am very liberal, with a few exceptions (such as concerns about environmental issues, gun laws and hunting, etc.). However, Michael Moore can very often be too much "Left-Wing Extremist" for even me.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:28am

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elementcinema

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ok well what happened to bowies post? he posted a long reply and i replied back but now it is different
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:30am

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elementcinema

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Bowie wrote:

He is an idiot. Bowling for Columbine was fiction, a political statement only.
an idiot? fiction? a political statement only? ok well please tell me what statement that was. and tell me which part was fiction? and idiot? no..a man with balls thats what i would say. he doesnt care about what ppl think of him.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:31am

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Waser

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Bowie wrote:

He is an idiot. Bowling for Columbine was fiction, a political statement only.
wow i was about to say "amazing! I have found a place where liberals and conservatives can debate common issues without saying all the stereotypical stuff"

I mean I understand why some people dont like him because of his ideals, but I get sick of it when people are like "LIAR HE IS A LIAR!" all the the sites and stuff that say BFC is fiction are all speculation and miss the point of the film.

I for one love him. Roger & Me is one of the best films i have ever seen.

http://www.bigsugar.wrestling-fan.com/truthaboutbowling.html
this is a great site on why BFC is NOT fiction

Last edited Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:33am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:33am

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elementcinema

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lol i agree with you totally waser..i have no idea where bowie came in on this..
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:40am

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Bowie

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His skills aside, he's an idiot. As far as his comments, I see now that aculag was wanting them. I'm not accusing you ,elementcinema, of saying it. (I do certainly hope you don't agree.) I was a little out of line before, so I deleted the first part. elementcinema, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so quick to comment. But, Waser, I'll call a spade a spade. He's an idiot.

As for my first post, yes I deleted it. I got out of line and regretted hitting the submit button. I pm'd elementcinema with the explanation. Not hiding, just retreating.

Last edited Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:54am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:44am

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elementcinema

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ok i forgive you bowie, i was just a little shocked earlier..and i guess you have the right to call him an idiot..everyone has their own taste for different things and i obviously as we have all established is that michael moore is not one of yours. heh..
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:48am

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elementcinema

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ah you should really check out the site waser posted..its great! good resource.

http://www.bigsugar.wrestling-fan.com/truthaboutbowling.html
once again heh

EDIT: arent i just the greatest guy to talk to here? hehe rate me if you think so! (never been rated before, dont know what its like wink )
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:55am

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Bowie

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I owe you one.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 4:57am

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elementcinema

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haha horay! thanks man
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 10:06am

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Mellifluous

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If I was American, & what Michael Moore says is true in BFC & Stupid White Men, etc (& so far from research I've done it is) then I'd be pretty concerned about my country.

Politics aside, I can empathise with MM as a filmmaker. He has what is called a social conscience & his Oscar speech reflected that. If I won an award I would say something that I felt was important - maybe not the same thing but it would be an issue I felt needed publicity.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 2:13pm

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elementcinema

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where are you from? maybe you should be worried about your country because america just might turn on you hugegrin
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 10:18pm

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Waser

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not america, just the US. i kid i kid, or do I? I do
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 10:44pm

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elementcinema

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when we say america i hope you guys know we mean the US
Posted: Thu, 22nd Jan 2004, 11:53pm

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Two Gunned Saint

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I think the guy is clever and quite interesting, he does some good stuff, like the poor old timers with lung cancer singing carols in the ciggy company lobby, rather tragic too.

I like the stuff of his I've seen but he's rather self-indulgent and probably a bit of a **** really. Hope I didn't just offend anyone, that's his job I just take it easy smile .
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 12:01am

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NoClue

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Who the hell is Michael Moore and why should I be interested?
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 12:04am

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Cypher

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I can't stand micheal moore. He's extremely annoying and his voice hurts my ears. Bowling for Colubmine was "entertaining" - but i dont think that was the main purpose of it.

oh - and when he shows that canadians dont lock doors, um. well, that's not true. I've lived in many places in Ontario and in the entire time i've known maybe a handfull of people (maybe) that don't lock their doors.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 12:47am

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voiceoverwizard

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elementcinema wrote:

Bowie wrote:

He is an idiot. Bowling for Columbine was fiction, a political statement only.
an idiot? fiction? a political statement only? ok well please tell me what statement that was. and tell me which part was fiction? and idiot? no..a man with balls thats what i would say. he doesnt care about what ppl think of him.
Well it would not be fiction per say because it was a documentary. However if you make a documentary using only certain types of footage and interviews that convey a certain angle or side of the facts without including the other side, then it is little more than a political statement. He clearly had/has an agenda that is far left wing and that is OK, but it would be much better if he would just say so. Also he just recently released a book which is nothing more than a anti-American, anti-conservative Bush bashing rant. Which basically tells us how we are all stuck in the doldrums and can never get out because of the "evil conservative rich people" who hold us all prisoner in out pathetic lives. All of this depite the fact that he has managed to follow a completely different path, which he indicates we are not eligible to take because we are being oppressed. Therefore he is an idiot and a socialist elitist A-hole, who thinks that he speaks for all or at least most Americans. Well he doesn't! As for what he cares about he cares about Michael Moore, being famous and rich, that is what he cares about. Selling his books and his movies making millions by hating rich people how ironic.

Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 1:06am

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Waser

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actually I wouldn't say Dude Where My Country was anti-american. He even talks about in the book how he thinks pretty much all of americans are decent people. It is anti-bush, ill give you that
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 1:08am

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Waser

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rcamuk wrote:

Who the hell is Michael Moore and why should I be interested?
he is an author and director is is extremley left wind. He has basically pointed out all that is wrong with america in his works, and some think this makes him anti america. also, he is an item of duscussion because many people think he lies
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 1:11am

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voiceoverwizard

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Waser wrote:

actually I wouldn't say Dude Where My Country was anti-american. He even talks about in the book how he thinks pretty much all of americans are decent people. It is anti-bush, ill give you that
Well telling people that they have no chance to better themselves, no matter what they do, is basically telling them that the "american dream" is a lie. In my view that is anti American. They are numerous other aspects of his book which make America out to be the bad guys.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 1:20am

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MechaForce

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Micheal Moore has many good points on lots of issues, but his only problem is that occasionally he likes to stretch the truth sometimes.

Bowling for Colombine was for the most part true, however he did cut and paste that one speech about Charlton Heston coming the day after Colombine, and his interview with him was chopped up to make it sound different. The rest of the movie is totally legit -
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 1:31am

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Cypher

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MechaForce wrote:

The rest of the movie is totally legit -
lol. not the part about Canadians and our doors. heh
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:07am

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wdy

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Michael Moore is a brillian man, with awesome ideas and wow he has some of the best documentaries I have ever seen. The topics and ideas for them are awesome and they keep your eyes glued to watching it. Bowling for Columbine was a very well done documentary, but as well as his first documentary Roger & Me, both of these are a must see if you are person looking to create documentaries. Also should check out his website and books very interesting stuff. He's a good man!
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:15am

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elementcinema

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i dont lock my door. i like in kingston ontario canada. and by him saying that ppl in canada dont lock their doors he doesnt mean everyone. but even by saying a handful of ppl lock their door thats alot of ppl for america. it all depends on where you are in canada. toronto is still a pretty sketchy place and so in montreal. but other than that its all good. im pretty sure ppl in nunavut or yukon and others up there dont lock their doors.. razz
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:19am

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wdy

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I'm in Carleton Place just 20mins away from Ottawa and we lock our doors smile
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:22am

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sidewinder

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A lot of people in America don't lock their doors. My Grandparent's house, for instance.

It's a stupid point, stop arguing about it.

(rough Simpsons quote)

Micheal Moore: Kent, did you know that there is a one in four chance of kids growing up to be criminals if they aren't exposed to the arts in school?

Kent Brockman: Really? Interesting! Where did you learn that?

Micheal Moore: Your mom!


there's truth in that...

BFC is NOT a documentary. That anti-anti-BFC site has a link to this site, but it is still just as legitimate...

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Read it, Dammit!

Oh,

but his only problem is that occasionally he likes to stretch the truth sometimes.
I hope that's witty sarcasm. Otherwise that's a pretty stretched excuse.

You also left out the KKK/NRA animation...

-

And quite simply, it doesn't matter how widely received BFC was, because the premise that gun control is a good thing is incorrect.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:24am

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elementcinema

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well thats good. im just saying if there are 5 ppl who dont lock their door in canada, thats a BIG handful for americans. i estimate that maybe 1 million ppl do not lock their doors in canada. and i think maybe about 20 people lock their doors in the US lol..
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:27am

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FiveIronFrenzy

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Sorry I don't even know who he is???

sleep
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:30am

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elementcinema

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there is truth in that sidewinder..like marilyn manson for instance, media in general is all violence these days and that america is so attached to their media its what causes them to be violent as well. but i would like to bring up something someone once said that made me really think..

not exact quote but:
"those two kids who shot and killed all those students at columbine we're crazy. people say "oh they were influenced by tv, music and video games". but no..whatever happened to crazy? you dont see too many ppl that are crazy anymore. everyone is influenced by this influenced by that, pressured to do this pressured to do that but we still dont hear anyone say that they are CRAZY anymore"

- Chris Rock

i think this is very true..those kids who shot and killed those ppl at columbine were crazy, just because they were mistreated and listened to "evil music" doesnt give them the right to kill those ppl. they are very crazy
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:43am

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Brettsta

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I get so annoyed when the news says, "He was influenced by grand theft auto 3" and "The kid liked violent movies and games, so therefore that influenced him." Thats just dumb. Some people are crazy, and video games or movies do not influence this.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:46am

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elementcinema

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right on brettsta..have you ever seen the movie "15 minutes"? with robert deniero. its about taht russion and his friend who killed ppl and then when he was caught he got away with being crazy and mental. that would never happen in the US. everyone thinks that crazy doesnt exist anymore. the same thing with the "snipers". they say that they were influenced by Counter Strike. BULLSHIT! they are completely crazy. who in their right mind would go around shooting ppl with a sniper rifle?
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:51am

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MechaForce

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sidewinder wrote:

And quite simply, it doesn't matter how widely received BFC was, because the premise that gun control is a good thing is incorrect.
That's opinion - laws restricting gun use have been proven to reduce gun crime, that's an undebatable fact. However, that doesn't mean that banning guns would make crime go even lower.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 3:52am

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elementcinema

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do you have any idea what would happen is guns were banned in anyway..chaos. mad chaos. think about it
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 4:13am

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sidewinder

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That's opinion - laws restricting gun use have been proven to reduce gun crime, that's an undebatable fact. However, that doesn't mean that banning guns would make crime go even lower.
What laws? And it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Research it.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 4:19am

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elementcinema

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there arent any laws..there are laws for killing ppl but to to own a gun..not taht i know of atleast
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 4:54am

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wdy

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Brettsta wrote:

I get so annoyed when the news says, "He was influenced by grand theft auto 3" and "The kid liked violent movies and games, so therefore that influenced him." Thats just dumb. Some people are crazy, and video games or movies do not influence this.
I must disagree with this not only to make things more annoying but just becuase in my opinion, music, video games...and general media influences everyone. Think about it when you make movies alot of people get there ideas from things they have seen usually, why does it make it different if some kid looks at violent shows and abusive music its all giving a message and some what effects the person. Sure for some people they can tell fake from reality although this isn't the case for everyone.

When you are down or depressed it usually true that you would go listen to music that has something to with how you are feeling, listening to abusive words and watching violence can effect our mental state. Its gotta start some where..oviously they get the message from somewhere, becuase no kid just randomly decides "lets go shoot up a school"...anyways my thought and opinion smile
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 5:16am

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Bowie

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sidewinder wrote:

That's opinion - laws restricting gun use have been proven to reduce gun crime, that's an undebatable fact. However, that doesn't mean that banning guns would make crime go even lower.
What laws? And it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Research it.
okay everyone. States allowing free carry of hidden weapons have experienced drops in crime. This is a fact. BFC was not about the events at Columbine. I live here, I work here, I was at the event. BFC was a political statement. An actual documentary would be a very short and disgusting movie. 2 psychos go to school and kill thier fellow students and instructor. PERIOD. Yes, we have a defense contractor a bit away. So does over 30 states. Littleton (in the Denver metro-plex) has a minimal military presence. Littleton is a fairly nice place. The overall crime rate is low, and the average income for families is high. Here's another fact. Criminals will have guns regardless of the law. Law abiding citizens are the only pple laws actually affect. Colorado now has a concealed weopon permit law that says ANYONE with a clean criminal record and training may acquire one. And YES, the violent crime in colorado had dropped in that time. BFC was a statement. I take offense to Canadians telling me how things are here in my home. For all the Americans here that want us to become more like Canada, give it up and move there. if you think gov. is supposed to hand you everything, great. Go there and be happy. Also, enjoy the taxes you'll pay to have them. Our Gov.'s #1 job is to protect us. That's what is happening right now. We aren't a perfect country, but we are not what some of you say we are. We are not imperialists. We are not war hungry. We love our home, and frankly, and obviously, more important than France, Germany or Canada. Kudos to the UK. Europe still has a nation that doesn't cave in to "popular" pressure. A nation that hasn't nuetered itself. Tarn, you spoke of "one man with an idea." I say that ideals are more important, and that is what our countries have in common. I work in a conservative profession, lots of us are former military. Maybe that's where my statements are from.

So, i'll go back to what this thread is abbout. MM is an idiot. I say this because he sold what so many people believe to be a documentay, a political statement relished by a minority. Who are the idiots? I guess that would be those that buy into it. A few sites on the web say this and that. We all know that everything on the web it true?! An event happens out in the middle of the United States that involved guns. Sorry folks, that's what it was. A couple psychos in a great community found ways to murder their peers. The end.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 6:54am

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An idiot? Not hardly. Michael's great for shock value. He does what he loves, he gets attention, and he makes beautiful money doing what it is that he loves. He's also a business man, and a wealthy one, at that. I love hearing what he has to say because it adds a different angle to what we typically read and hear. Anti-American? I doubt that. He's trying to help, not hurt. Anti-Bush? No doubt. As quoted by Mr. Moore on the Conan O'Brien Show, "President Bush is probably a very good guy, I have no problems with his personal life. But he's destroying the country, and the country has a right to know about it." If s*** is hittin' the fan, i'd love to know about it! Cause the truth is quite ugly, and that's why people lie. He doesn't sugarcoat things, he just says what he's thinkin. I don't know if I always agree with him, but that's okay. He's got gajones for trying and has my full attention.
As for the whole debate as to whether or not the media has the power to influence: the media has this world by the balls. From fashion to cars to what you label as badass, the media has had some play. People can be greatly and positively influenced by the media. Seeds of heroism and bravery can be planted in young minds from a movie about a famous warrior, or the same movie could negatively influence a young mind to stage a fight scene with "play" weapons, causing accidental injuries. I can't walk down the street without having some sort of advertisement crammed down my throat.
I am grateful for where I live, but one cannot disagree that this country is far from perfect. We have many freedoms and great oppurtunities to succeed, but not all without a price. I personally believe Michael Moore's main point is that this price is getting higher, and the freedoms associated are becomming harder to reach.
Moore is a fellow filmmaker; one without fx and big stars, without fashion trends or sportscars. He's one quiet voice that has been heard over the shouts and screams, the opinions of the population. But it is even threads like this one that fuels what he likes to do; controversy. Ignorant? Not in the least. Hard to like? I can see that. Michael Moore, keep on truckin.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 7:00am

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Aculag

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ijohnson33 wrote:

Michael's great for shock value.
So's Marylin Manson, but do you see him parading around campaigning against our president? Didn't think so.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 7:02am

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Bowie

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Thank you
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 9:02am

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Mellifluous

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About crime...crime is probably always going to occur to some degree, & there's nothing we can do about it. The easy answer, that would make everyone sleep at night, is that people who commit crime, like the kids who perpetrated the Columbine killings, are just wacko's.

But crime has causes, & I'd argue these causes can be traced back to poverty & the way a particular government deals with poverty.

In BFC, the thing that most got to me was the example of the 6 year old kid who shot one of his class mates. MM was linking this with the fact that his mum was on the welfare program, & he hardly ever saw her because she was always coming & going to work.

I look in the newspaper, there's stories about muggings, burglaries, street gangs etc. For me, they're all poverty linked. Street gangs, for example. Mostly, they comprise kids from very poor backgrounds. Have them form a group, they become empowered, they feel like they've got other people who care about them. Put a gun in their hands & they suddenly decide to wreak revenge on people they see being more affluent than them.

Guns are for killing. I'm stating the bleeding obvious here. Own a gun & you have the potential to become a killer. What's the point of having a gun if you don't shoot it at someone? Limit the use of guns & you'd have a lot safer environment. They wouldn't be in your hands to protect yourself, sure, but they wouldn't be in someone else's either.

American citizens, reportedly, has millions of guns. Aren't you a little spooked by that? Seriously, think about it. Think about the massive mortality scale if everyone decided to use their gun on another person.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 9:30am

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Bowie

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Mellifluous, I understand that argument. I also see the side thats says knives and bats would take the place of guns if they were gone. I think that limiting or taking away the freedoms of those that harm others is the right thing to do. BUT, limiting freedoms to prevent someone from harming another is wrong. Crime, then punishment. Not the other way around.

Here is the argument in Colorado. I agree with it. Criminals are cowards. If a potential victim MAY be armed, then the criminal would shy from the crime. Our law here is new, the short term says it's right. Some Southern states have a longer record with similar laws. As Americans, we have this right. And this right, this freedom, will be taken if we harm others. Personally, I would love to see the guns gone, but that's impossible. I must also honor our founding documents. I have to honor this right. THE PEOPLE of this country want it. That's the point. The freedom of my nieghbors across our country are too important to start stripping those freedoms away because some people get spooked by news articles. If we limit our freedoms at the request of a minority, then we won't be Americans anymore. If THE PEOPLE want it different, it will be different. Until then, people like MM will continue to be boo'd.

Yes, I carry a gun. Yes, I know people around me do too. I'm not spooked. If it were a crime to have these weapons, then ONLY criminals would have them.

Teach me something. In England, I believe it's pretty hard to to acquire a gun. So, who has guns? I would bet that it's the criminals and the Gov. Where does that leave the people?
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 10:28am

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LtMcMurphy

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Read this folks: http://bowlingfortruth.com/

Pretty much debunks BFC. I like the part when he edited the scene where he gets the gun at the bank. He made it look like he got the gun right away, but in fact it took him a few days, but clever editing can make anyone believe anything. Seriously guys, for all those who said that most of BFC is legit, read this.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 6:31pm

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ijohnson33

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Aculag wrote:

ijohnson33 wrote:

Michael's great for shock value.
So is Marylin Manson, but do you see him parading around campaigning against our president? Didn't think so.
Hmm...no i don't. Great point....? The Dixie Chicks do though...What does this have to do with anything? Is it wrong to disagree with the president?

Manson is awesome for shock value as well. He's in a different category, but like Moore, he is also a businessman. Both these men have taken their talents and skills and used them to become whoever they want in society. I still do not see how one could label Moore as an idiot. Isn't that the point you are trying to make? I'm not sure what the hell we are even arguing.
My point (and the point of this thread being our opinions on Moore): Moore is a talented and entertaining filmmaker. His topics are controversial, but hey, that's what he wants. He wants people to talk about him. Is it bringing in the cash? You bet your sweet december it is.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 10:25pm

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sidewinder

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Geez guys, intead of banning guns, lets just get to the root of the problem and ban killing!

Didn't that work?

Or wait, here's another idea...

Every person has the physical ability to kill another person, so let's lock everybody up.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Jan 2004, 10:52pm

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MechaForce

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sidewinder wrote:

What laws? And it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Research it.
The Brady Law, which requires the background checks and waiting periods for people buying guns. Since its signing, gun crime has gone down drastically in the US. -End of Debate-

sidewinder wrote:

Geez guys, intead of banning guns, lets just get to the root of the problem and ban killing!

Didn't that work?
So basically: Gun control doesn't work, so legalize all guns. Laws regarding murder don't work, because people still murder, so let's legalize murder. Great.
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 1:08am

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Aculag

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Haha. Nice point.
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 2:17am

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Hybrid-Halo

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I have little experience and never read Moore, and being english I am obviously limitied to an awful lot of what he writes about.

However, I feel inclined to hate him. Does this make me a bad person?
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 3:17am

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elementcinema

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no it doenst..you have the freedom of speech here. you can hate anyone you want and it wouldnt make you a bad person
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 8:32am

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ijohnson33

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before you hate him, know him. your opinions should be based on what you know, not on what you dont.
Posted: Sat, 24th Jan 2004, 10:16am

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Mellifluous

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Exactly.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 9:20pm

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Alcoholic Artist

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Apparenly alot of the things Michael moore talked about in BFC is what marilyn manson said to him in footage thst wasn't used or something.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 9:52pm

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Bryan M Block

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I like Moore mostly because he raises questions and challenges with his work. I also find his films rather entertaining. I don;t agree with all of his stances, and obviously he has his own agenda- but at least he makes you think. People that think "Bowling for Columbine" was about guns, really didn't watch the movie. Moore is a lifetime NRA member and grew up with guns. The point I got out of BFC was that there is something woven into the fabric of American society beyond guns that contributes to these problems...
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 9:54pm

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Rockfilmers

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I'll sum up my thoughts about him in one word. Idiot.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 10:03pm

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jawajohnny

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Whoa! Major bump. I always wonder how a lot of new members end up finding old topics like this.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 10:21pm

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videofxuniverse

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i havent seen bfc but i did watch "sicko" his documentary on the health system around the world. He seemed genuinly shocked that here in the UK we do not pay for medical treatment. Many people in the UK complain about the NHS but we really would be lost without it. Everyone gets treated and dont need medical insurance I was shocked when i saw the reality of how the medical insurance system works in the USA in which if you have a diesease or illness you are screwed as far as insurance companies go and they deny some cancer sufferers from chemo, and how some of the 9/11 fire fighters who got lung diesese from the incident got completely snubbed. Also a woman who has to pay $200 per month for a particular inhaler found she could buy a single inhaler for something like $2 in cuba.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 10:36pm

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sfbmovieco

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The problem with American healthcare as I see it now is that it's already heavily subsidized. HMO's are already heavily influenced by the government. John Stossel did a story with Moore about how some Canadians were waiting months, some of them with cancer, for treatment. They came to the US and got treatment.

Now with that said, are there problems with the US system? Hell yes, absolutely. But there's not going to be a silver bullet where you say, oh make it government run and it'll work perfectly for everyone. If you look at the health care that the government does run (on military bases, etc.) it's often the butt of many jokes about how poorly it's run.

Until we can give the medical companies an incentive to come up with better products and compete with each other for price, it won't work.

Michael Crichton did an interesting interview on PBS with Charlie Rose about how research companies have been trademarking the blueprint's of diseases. So if you wanted to do research on a particular disease, you were not able to because it was trademarked. It's pretty disgusting.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 10:37pm

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Mellifluous

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Indeed, major bumpage. I'm sure I voiced a different opinion on here about Moore.

Politically, I agree with him. As a filmmaker, I think he gives documentary filmmakers a bad name and manipulates things just as much as he claims others do. Bowling for Columbine was great and I agree with the message, but I'm sceptical about his tactics and attention-grabbing style.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 11:16pm

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Malthar

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He should cut down on the KFC.
Posted: Thu, 11th Dec 2008, 12:52am

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mikeh

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Anyone here see an American Carol. Hilarious!
Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008, 7:45pm

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Moonloon1

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I can't stand him! No matter what anyone says America still has the best medical care. I just don't like the drug conglomerate, I'm for homeopathy first before any pharma. Michael would have you believe socialized medicine is better... If thats true then why do so many Canadians come to America for medical treatment?
Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008, 8:06pm

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Coureur de Bois

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Michael Moore... two words: cuh unt.
Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008, 8:31pm

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Aculag

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Weird to see posts from myself four years ago and be like, "how is that seriously me?" I have changed a lot in four years... Politically, at the very least.
Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008, 8:35pm

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Moonloon1

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Gorion wrote:

Michael Moore... two words: cuh unt.
Agreed, well said.
Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008, 6:42pm

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Rockfilmers

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No matter what anyone says America still has the best medical care.
I agree %100. I think that it's funny that America seems to want government run health care like Canada, but a lot of Canadians come into America for their health care.
Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008, 6:48pm

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ben3308

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Canadians come to America for urgent care, Americans go to Canada for prescriptions and treatment of ailments which require repeated, long-lasting care.

We have good health coverage but that doesn't mean it's appropriately priced to any degree. My dad pays 1600 dollars a month for healthcare and, despite the price, it doesn't cover all that we need it to. Basically, it's just incredibly poorly priced, not that it's bad per se.
Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008, 11:20pm

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Bryan M Block

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Rockfilmers wrote:

No matter what anyone says America still has the best medical care.
I agree %100. I think that it's funny that America seems to want government run health care like Canada, but a lot of Canadians come into America for their health care.
Well, besides being a right wing lie you are spewing, Americans aren't looking for "government run health care" The only thing on the table right now is more like "government sponsored health INSURANCE" Read that again. INSURANCE not "health care"- I don't remember anyone asking the doctors to work for the state or for the government to own hospitals- Insurance is a numbers racket, the greater the pool of insureds the statistically less expensive it is. If you read Obama's plan, it's more along the the lines of GEICO, the insurance company- good coverage & low rates because it is spread out over a larger pool of insureds. GEICO stands for "Government Employees Insurance COmpany" - a Huge pool of insureds= good coverage, less cost. A government povider would only provide more competition for the private providers...and isn't that supposed to be good for the free market?
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 1:19am

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Moonloon1

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[quote="Bryan M Block"][quote="Rockfilmers"]
Well, besides being a right wing lie you are spewing
Politically, Liberal and so called "Right Wing" politicians all lie, if they didn't they would not get elected. Besides the governments of the world don't really run anything. It's the people with money that run the world and they have run it since man stopped grunting, even though some still do. "The Rise of the Fourth Reich by Jim Marrs" check it out. Oh, and I'm not one the Americans you speak of ("government sponsored health INSURANCE") if that is what Obama, Clinton et al... are talking about then why don't they say that?
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 3:16am

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Bryan M Block

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[quote="Moonloon1"][quote="Bryan M Block"]

Rockfilmers wrote:

Well, besides being a right wing lie you are spewing
Politically, Liberal and so called "Right Wing" politicians all lie, if they didn't they would not get elected. Besides the governments of the world don't really run anything. It's the people with money that run the world and they have run it since man stopped grunting, even though some still do. "The Rise of the Fourth Reich by Jim Marrs" check it out. Oh, and I'm not one the Americans you speak of ("government sponsored health INSURANCE") if that is what Obama, Clinton et al... are talking about then why don't they say that?
Uh... they did say that. If you were paying any attention you wouldn't need someone to explain it to you.


Jim Marrs is the same guy who wrote "The Alien Agenda" compelling new evidence to suggesting that alien life forms have not only visited our planet in the past, but are among us right now. unsure

Yeah- real credible stuff there I'm sure!

If I were a different person I might tell you to go UN-Fu@* yourself. Oh, maybe I am...

You are ignorant enough to be an American, I'll give you that. You should join the Republican party. They need you.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 4:20am

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Bryce007

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It's weird. For some reason, Block, you're pretty cool when it comes to filmmaking. But as soon as politics or morals comes up, you tend to turn into a tactless "D__chebag" with the unwavering impression that you're always right, all the time, and the other person isn't just wrong, but a complete fool for even having stated their opinion.

It's not very classy.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 4:27am

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ssj john

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at least he's using paragraphs now eh?
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 12:10pm

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Atom

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Bryce007 wrote:

It's weird. For some reason, Block, you're pretty cool when it comes to filmmaking. But as soon as politics or morals comes up, you tend to turn into a tactless "D__chebag" with the unwavering impression that you're always right, all the time, and the other person isn't just wrong, but a complete fool for even having stated their opinion.

It's not very classy.
Heh. smile Sadly, so true.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 12:49pm

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Sollthar

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Unfortunately, I have to agree with Bryce's statement.

If you're unable to chose your words more carefully Brian, regardless of your beliefs, there will have to be some moderating done to your posts in the future.
You can disagree with someone without insulting him in every line you write. So please show that you can.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 1:23pm

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Simon K Jones

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Bryan M Block wrote:

If I were a different person I might tell you to go UN-Fu@* yourself. Oh, maybe I am...
That was completely uncalled for. It's also highly inappropriate behaviour for the FXhome.com forums. A long-timer like yourself should know better, Bryan.

If I were you I'd apologise swiftly and move along quietly.

Ironically, you fall into the exact same trap as Michael Moore does. So while I usually agree with your politics, there's absolutely no way I can agree with the way you evangelise them.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 3:15pm

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Bryan M Block

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OK.

All Americans want government sponsored healthcare.

Read a book written by a guy that believes Aliens are here among us and you will see the light because you don't understand.

Obama and Hillary have never talked about government sponsored health insurance.


We'll just accept those as unchallenged facts and move on.
I mean the rich control the media, Obama is running a socialist agenda for the USA (he's never mentioned anything about insurance!) and there are aliens among us, I guess we have bigger problems. biggrin I'm going to go stockpile canned goods in my bunker out back and buy as many guns as I can before Obama repeals the 2nd Ammendment (He's an Arab you know- he just might do that!) I won't post in the thread anymore- you can carry on without my ramblings. (moves along quietly)

"Sorry I started a fight in the middle of your black panther party."
-Forrest Gump
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 3:19pm

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Moonloon1

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Uh... they did say that. If you were paying any attention you wouldn't need someone to explain it to you.
Yeah- real credible stuff there I'm sure!
If I were a different person I might tell you to go UN-Fu@* yourself. Oh, maybe I am...

Thank you for that mature post Bryan, please read books with an open mind and use a grain of salt, I do. Everything in this world is subjective, most of us are free to believe what we choose. I've never read the Alien Agenda and until I see one I don't buy it either but I am willing to listen to both sides of any subject with an open mind. Please have a wonderful life Bryan....
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 3:27pm

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Simon K Jones

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Bryan M Block wrote:

We'll just accept those as unchallenged facts and move on.
Why? Nobody is asking you to do that.

I guess we have bigger problems.
Indeed we do: your inability to counter somebody's views without resorting to Straw Man rhetoric and unpleasant behaviour.

Nobody is saying you're not allowed to question other people's views. All we ask is that you do it politely. It's not that big a request, really.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 3:56pm

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Moonloon1

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And just in case you don't understand the term Straw Man here it is...

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position.[1] While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]

The term is derived from the practice in ages past of using human-shaped straw dummies in combat training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy, sometimes dressed in an enemy uniform or decorated in some way to vaguely resemble them. A trainee then attacks the dummy with a weapon such as a sword, club, bow or musket. Such a target is, naturally, immobile and does not fight back, and is therefore not a realistic test of skill compared to a live and armed opponent. It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument.[citation needed] In the UK, it is sometimes called Aunt Sally, with reference to a traditional fairground game.

Bryan, I'm not the enemy.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 4:02pm

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Simon K Jones

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In the UK, it is sometimes called Aunt Sally, with reference to a traditional fairground game.
Heh, bizarre. I've never heard that term. razz
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 4:19pm

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pdrg

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I was debating whether to step into this bunfight or not - in the end I think I will but just to try and calm the waters a bit.

Yes, Bryan was being flippant, but tone is so hard to gauge from the written word, and frankly he has some very valid points. Flippancy can be read as a direct attack, or with an air of detached carefreeness, or anywhere in between. I suspect this thread has become a far bigger deal than it really is, and were it a pub discussion it would be a lot more jocular.

As for Michael Moore, personally I find him too unsubtle to be a great communicator. He tries to take the moral high ground, but does so by using poorly constructed polemics, straw men himself, and resorting to a schoolyard level of characturisation and sloppy journalism. He seems to be cobbling together poor arguments as a voice of "The Left" which by his presentation play right into the hands of "The Right". He is the enemy of balanced, informed debate. He is Fox News for muesli eaters. He's joining the mud-slinging without moving the debate forward.

If his lack of subtlety and panache is what American needs, well I guess I can't judge from the UK, but I feel America, you deserve and can do better than Michael Moore and Fox News who treat the whole world like a comic strip.

Healthcare - guess what...there is no right answer. Just like pretty much every other debate in the world and on this forum, life is one big grey area. Yep, in the UK we had a visionary many years ago who made healthcare a responsibility of the state in order rebuild a new society and country after a ravishing war. It was very brave and utopian, and it partly works, partly fails. But in the US your healthcare seems to be the opposite - disproportionately expensive and with massive commercial vested lobbying interests in a semi-protected market. Neither system is ideal in practice, which means enemies of each system can point at the other and sling mud...but there is no perfect answer, making it a rather fruitless exercise.

May peace, hugs and love be restored, guys.
Posted: Tue, 16th Dec 2008, 4:27pm

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Simon K Jones

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Well said, pdrg!

I agree completely about Moore. He's a great entertainer, but a pretty wobbly documentarian. Though I wouldn't say he's anything like as bad as Fox News - he does, after all, at least base his straw men on facts rather than complete fabrication. smile

Ultimately, though, you wonder who exactly he's talking to. People opposed to his view aren't going to listen due to his ascerbic style, so he's not going to change anyone's mind or even make them think twice. People that already agree with his viewpoints (such as myself) will either find his stuff highly entertaining, or detrimental to 'the cause' - either way it's irrelevant, because we already agree with him, so what's the point?
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 1:00am

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Moonloon1

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Tarn wrote:

Well said, pdrg!

I agree completely about Moore. He's a great entertainer, but a pretty wobbly documentarian. Though I wouldn't say he's anything like as bad as Fox News - he does, after all, at least base his straw men on SOME facts rather than complete fabrication. smile

Ultimately, though, you wonder who exactly he's talking to. People opposed to his view aren't going to listen due to his ascerbic style, so he's not going to change anyone's mind or even make them think twice. People that already agree with his viewpoints (such as myself) will either find his stuff highly entertaining, or detrimental to 'the cause' - either way it's irrelevant, because we already agree with him, so what's the point?
Lets put CNN, NBC, ABC and nearly every major newspaper in America into the BAD category. And sorry but I find Moore utterly offensive on just a human level, though I did like that Dogma movie. He did that one right?
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 1:07am

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mikeh

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Moonloon1 wrote:



Lets put CNN, NBC, ABC and nearly every major newspaper in America into the BAD category.
Agreed. It's not just Fox News. The media is destroying this country. Just wait, you'll see the same under Obama.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 2:00am

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Moonloon1

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mikeh wrote:

Moonloon1 wrote:



Lets put CNN, NBC, ABC and nearly every major newspaper in America into the BAD category.
Agreed. It's not just Fox News. The media is destroying this country. Just wait, you'll see the same under Obama.
Well Bryan seems happy that Obama is in office as do many of my clients (musicians) but Obama will have no more control over our affairs than George Bush. I used to be a republican but now I consider myself an independent conservative. I'm just as disgusted with the republican party as I am with the democrats but hell Im just a "Right Wing Wacko" that believes government should stay out of my business, protect the borders and help provide fair world trade. They have and will continue to fail no matter who supposedly runs the show.

Last edited Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 5:03am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 2:13am

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mikeh

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Moonloon1 wrote:

mikeh wrote:

Moonloon1 wrote:



Lets put CNN, NBC, ABC and nearly every major newspaper in America into the BAD category.
Agreed. It's not just Fox News. The media is destroying this country. Just wait, you'll see the same under Obama.
Well Bryan seems happy that Obama is in office as do many of my clients (musicians) but Obama will have no more control over our affairs than George Bush. I used to be a republican but now I consider myself an independent conservative. I'm just as disgusted with the republican party as I am with the democratss but hell Im just a "Right Wing Wacko" that believes government should stay out of my business, protect the borders and help provide fair world trade. They have and will continue to fail no matter who supposedly runs the show.
Third party revolution ftw! Count me in...
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 4:06am

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Rockfilmers

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All Americans want government sponsored healthcare.
OK...

I mean the rich control the media
True. Rich Liberals.

And my question is were the heck did Liberals bet the Idea that they have an open mind? I'm am constantly made fun of at work by liberals because I am Christian and proud of it. But I'm not aloud to say any think against what they believe because I need to have an open mind. That just doesn't make since to me. Today as I was coming home from work I had people across the street shouting at me and laughing because we had a McCain sign in my family's front yard. these people are unimploied and Use food stamp cards and WIC (I know this because I'm a cashier at Publix and they have come through my line.). What those people don't understand is that my tax money goes and pays for their meals. And instead of being greatful, they mock me! And now they want me to pay for their health insurance too? I don't think so. Call me a Right-winged fascist mean person, I don't care. Maybe you should just open your mind to me a little bit

smile
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 5:01am

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Moonloon1

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Very refreshing to hear that people aren't blinded by the media or the political drivel that falls out of mouths whose main job in life it to hold out their hand for donations. I say remove the politicians, lawyers and bankers... Lets start over and I don't mean that politely. The lust for power and control corrupts completely... money is the root of all evil. If you want to know why things are so corrupt follow the money. I too don't want government sponsored healthcare or bailouts for the bankers, auto companies, AIG or anyone that can't successfully run a business. If we fail in business we get off our ass and start over, failure leads to success. Ask anyone successful how many times they failed before they made it.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 5:30am

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Rockfilmers

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Very refreshing to hear that people aren't blinded by the media or the political drivel that falls out of mouths whose main job in life it to hold out their hand for donations. I say remove the politicians, lawyers and bankers... Lets start over and I don't mean that politely. The lust for power and control corrupts completely... money is the root of all evil. If you want to know why things are so corrupt follow the money. I too don't want government sponsored healthcare or bailouts for the bankers, auto companies, AIG or anyone that can't successfully run a business. If we fail in business we get off our ass and start over, failure leads to success. Ask anyone successful how many times they failed before they made it.
clap clap clap clap
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 6:06am

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sfbmovieco

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Kevin Smith made Dogma. Don't go soiling the good name of Mr. Smith. smile
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 7:18am

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Atom

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The media isn't destroying this country, and it isn't all evil. It's reporting, people. Reporting by people for people- and even on levels of spin or propaganda- I think we all forget these aren't giant titans of influence.

They're just reporters, reporting the news as they see it. Whether that lends itself to opinion or persuasion is another thing. But make no mistake, it's not 'destroying' a country in any sense of the word.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 7:46am

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Rockfilmers

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Atom, in a way you are right, but people will believe almost any think the media tells them. Even though they are just reporters, they do have a lot of influence on the way people think. One thing that i've noticed about the media is that each reporter you read about contradicts another, and the media is very biased. You can never just get facts from a reporter, you also have to get their opinion and they usually make their opinion sound like a fact.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 2:43pm

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Moonloon1

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Atom wrote:

The media isn't destroying this country, and it isn't all evil. It's reporting, people. Reporting by people for people- and even on levels of spin or propaganda- I think we all forget these aren't giant titans of influence.

They're just reporters, reporting the news as they see it. Whether that lends itself to opinion or persuasion is another thing. But make no mistake, it's not 'destroying' a country in any sense of the word.
I agree however the mainstream media is biased and unfortunately most people don't spend the time to look up alternative sources. Yes Bryan like the wackos that read Alien Agenda.... I'm gonna have to read that book... hmmm since I'm crazy and uninformed anyway. salt, salt and a dash of salt....

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Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 2:48pm

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Simon K Jones

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Moonloon1 wrote:

I agree however the mainstream media is biased and unfortunately most people don't spend the time to look up alternative sources.
It's not just the mainstream media: it's everything. All media is created by people, and people are inherently biased. So there is of course going to be bias.

That's not really the problem, though. The problem is when people are too stupid to actually realise this, and take everything at face value as the Utmost Truth.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 2:52pm

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Moonloon1

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Tarn wrote:

Moonloon1 wrote:

I agree however the mainstream media is biased and unfortunately most people don't spend the time to look up alternative sources.
It's not just the mainstream media: it's everything. All media is created by people, and people are inherently biased. So there is of course going to be bias.

That's not really the problem, though. The problem is when people are too stupid to actually realise this, and take everything at face value as the Utmost Truth.
Salt, salt everything with a grain or two.... well said Tarn. Half the people in the world are dumber than the average person... And the average person is not that smart!
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 5:40pm

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No Respite Productions

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For those who are sick of the regular news outlets (and why wouldn't you be)...

If you want unbiased, accurate and factual news then www.reuters.com or www.reuters.co.uk are places you should head to.

Their reporting and standards are absolutely second to none and they are well recognised as providing objective and speedy news updates.

Interestingly - one of the reasons why it's so highly unbiased is because no person can hold more than 15% shares in the company - including legendary media jerk off Rupert Murdoch.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 7:48pm

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Moonloon1

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sfbmovieco wrote:

Kevin Smith made Dogma. Don't go soiling the good name of Mr. Smith. smile
Oh, I humbly apologize to Kevin Smith. I should have looked that up first, my bad.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 10:43pm

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pdrg

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If anyone's looking for a really objective and massively underrated newspaper, try The Financial Times (http://ft.com). The FT has a bunch of business and markets stuff, but has refreshingly little political slant - money doesn't obey politics, and the international coverage is usually pretty excellent.

I also strongly recommend the Weekend edition of the FT - the magazine is thinner than all the usual glossy cr*p you expect from weekend editions, has just a few adverts (but for yachts, and cool stuff), and absolutely no wasted space on bollocks articles about dresses and actresses you'll never meet. It really is a great mag, and worth the price of the weekend edition on its own.

Try it, you will learn something and appreciate being treated like an intelligent adult again in a time when The Times has gone tabloid, The Telegraph has sacked most of their decent writers, The Independent is bland, Guardian a funny shape and a bit annoying at times, The Mail and Express are seething frothing cauldrons of hate, and the redtops barely worth opening.
Posted: Wed, 17th Dec 2008, 10:50pm

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Rockfilmers

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I know my dad looks at the drudge report. http://www.drudgereport.com/ I've looked at it a lot and like it, but I don't really read it.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 12:19am

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The FE

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sfbmovieco wrote:

Kevin Smith made Dogma. Don't go soiling the good name of Mr. Smith. smile
Jersey Girl. Soiled.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 12:29am

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Moonloon1

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Rockfilmers wrote:

I know my dad looks at the drudge report. http://www.drudgereport.com/ I've looked at it a lot and like it, but I don't really read it.
No offense Rock but how can you like it if you don't read it...Ha! My advise is to read it. I know it takes time but reading almost anything will help with understanding almost everything. Take that from an old man (53) with a three year old boy, a thirty year old boy and two grandchildren....
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 12:57am

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ben3308

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FE Filmmaker wrote:

sfbmovieco wrote:

Kevin Smith made Dogma. Don't go soiling the good name of Mr. Smith. smile
Jersey Girl. Soiled.
Zing!
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 2:34am

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DVStudio

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Moonloon1 wrote:

mikeh wrote:

Moonloon1 wrote:



Lets put CNN, NBC, ABC and nearly every major newspaper in America into the BAD category.
Agreed. It's not just Fox News. The media is destroying this country. Just wait, you'll see the same under Obama.
Well Bryan seems happy that Obama is in office as do many of my clients (musicians) but Obama will have no more control over our affairs than George Bush.
Yeah. But the difference is that Obama has the democratic senate, house, AND media. Yeah, it is no one party's fault, but things are going to change. Big time...
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 3:11am

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Moonloon1

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DVStudio wrote:

Yeah. But the difference is that Obama has the democratic senate, house, AND media. Yeah, it is no one party's fault, but things are going to change. Big time...
And I fear for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the constitution and most of all my son's future (Did I sorta steal that from STAR WARS? Or is it the other way around?). But hey lets see what happens, I'll give Obama the chance to prove me wrong and I honestly hope he does for all our sakes. Damn, with some VFX this thread could almost make a good movie.... I really liked the straw man part. Come on Bryan throw some fire in here, you can't offend me, I just let it fall off like snow. It's one of the joys that make life interesting. "You can't win Darth, if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." (and cut to music "Imperial March" by John Williams)
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 1:14pm

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Rockfilmers

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Rockfilmers wrote:
I know my dad looks at the drudge report. http://www.drudgereport.com/ I've looked at it a lot and like it, but I don't really read it.


No offense Rock but how can you like it if you don't read it...Ha! My advise is to read it. I know it takes time but reading almost anything will help with understanding almost everything. Take that from an old man (53) with a three year old boy, a thirty year old boy and two grandchildren....
When I said I've looked at it, i meant that I read it when ever it's up on his comupter.I don't just look the site up all the time.
Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008, 4:45pm

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Moonloon1

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Yes, I understand that, I was pulling your leg. Sometimes the written word does not translate as well as the writers intention. As has been stated on this post. I meant no offense Rock.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 2:49am

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ssj john

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So who thinks we should recruit George W. To the national dodgeball team?
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 2:54am

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The FE

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Is he qualified to throw a ball?
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 2:06pm

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Rockfilmers

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Yes, I understand that, I was pulling your leg. Sometimes the written word does not translate as well as the writers intention. As has been stated on this post. I meant no offense Rock.
Oh, I was offended,I just wanted t clarify myself.
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 2:19pm

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Sollthar

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Maybe throwing shoes at politicians and getting beaten up afterwards will become a new national sport.

Here's a subject for Michael Moore to do a new documentary on.
"shoe-throwing for Irak"
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 2:36pm

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Moonloon1

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FE Filmmaker wrote:

Is he qualified to throw a ball?
No but apparently he can dodge a shoe!
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 6:12pm

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Bryce007

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I still laugh every time I see the part in "Team America: world police" when one of the characters referred to Michael Moore as a "fat socialist weasel"
Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008, 6:44pm

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The FE

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Moonloon1 wrote:

FE Filmmaker wrote:

Is he qualified to throw a ball?
No but apparently he can dodge a shoe!
I was actually well surprised when he ducked that first one ha.
Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2008, 2:04pm

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DVStudio

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FE Filmmaker wrote:


No but apparently he can dodge a shoe!
Heh wink

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Posted: Sat, 20th Dec 2008, 8:05pm

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Moonloon1

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And just for those that might not know, in the Middle East it is the greatest insult to throw your shoe at someone. Something to do with the dirt under your feet....