You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

microphones? A little Help

Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 4:56pm

Post 1 of 29

Riese

Force: 891 | Joined: 24th Feb 2002 | Posts: 199

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

I am getting ready to shoot a short. What I am looking for is a mic, that I can set on a boom and record voices. Thats it. But I have no idea where to start, My knowledge of Mics are very limited and all the buzz words confuse me. If anyone can point me to a few good microphones. I have about 150 to spend on one. Thanks


Riese
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 9:06pm

Post 2 of 29

Troy

Force: 410 | Joined: 7th Jan 2004 | Posts: 37

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

BIG WARNING NOTE!!!

I have not tried this Mic, I'm just pointing it out as a possible route to investigate!!

/BIG WARNING NOTE!!!

Here is one on Ebay that runs $50 to $55

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2982002928&category=3319

I don't know if it totally sucks or not, but it does seem to be the type (Shotgun Mic) that a lot of advice here points people to. I haven't heard anything about Quality of sound, so it may not even be better than what's on your camera.
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 10:04pm

Post 3 of 29

owen rixon

Force: 1155 | Joined: 30th Jun 2002 | Posts: 499

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

search on google for senheizer. They make really good mics...
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 10:53pm

Post 4 of 29

Gibs

Force: 1663 | Joined: 21st May 2002 | Posts: 1611

CompositeLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

If you only have $150 to spend total, then you'll have to go with a non-XLR mic (unless your camera has an XLR adapter). As owen suggested Sennheiser is a good brand to look at.
Posted: Mon, 26th Jan 2004, 11:21pm

Post 5 of 29

jjuerss

Force: 1150 | Joined: 5th Jul 2003 | Posts: 332

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I borrowed a Sennheiser MKE-300 for a wedding shoot I did recently and was very impressed with the sound quality, which was vastly superior to any built-in camcorder mics I have ever heard. It seems to be within your budget.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 4:27am

Post 6 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Audio Technica mics are actually very good. Even the budget type, I hear. Try and find somewhere that stocks that ATR55.

Check the website - http://www.audiotechnica.com/guide/line/atr/ATR55.html

Not bad for the budget conscious camera buff.

Adam.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 6:12am

Post 7 of 29

hippa03

Force: 830 | Joined: 27th Nov 2003 | Posts: 367

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

As I work at a Government Dept. we produce audio visual presentstions and info. We used the Sennheizer Mikes, which I think are one of the top makes. But budget sepends on all. Peronally I own an SKC unidirectional and it gives me very good results
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 7:29am

Post 8 of 29

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I work at a studio, so I'm borrowing their Sennheiser MKH-16 that they never use. The quality is incredible, and you can get one from Sennheiser for less than 400 bucks. Which is awesome. I very much reccommend it.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 2:54pm

Post 9 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Will no-one big-up some other company? Do you guys have affiliates or something!? Ok:

AKG - I have been using a C1000 (£99) and a C3000 (£150) since 1999.
Shure
Audio-Technica
Neumann
MXL
Oktava
Rode
Sennheiser
Shure

Plus, I'm looking into some wireless mics at the moment. So I'll get back to you with the results.

Adam.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 4:58pm

Post 10 of 29

Riese

Force: 891 | Joined: 24th Feb 2002 | Posts: 199

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Thanks guys for the info. Microphones can be a head spinning topic if you are not up to date with the lingo. I am not. My specs (cant believe I forgot) XL1-with a XLR adaptor.

My Next question is about recording. Can you record to Tape instead of DAT and get good results. I have been hendered cord length when it comes to microphone placement. So what I would like to do is have a mic on a boom and record on to a seperate device. Any sugestions on media type and products. about 100 to spend on this one.

Riese
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 5:15pm

Post 11 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Ooh, tough one. Minidisc is cheap enough to be useable. Something I had been looking into doing, before I realised I had a multitrack machine to use instead.

For 100, I'd say that's your best bet. Discs are cheap and even the mic that came with my comp sounds better than my camera's mic!

Wait a mo... When you said,
I have been hendered cord length when it comes to microphone placement.
Did you mean, that your XLR cord isn't long enough? If that's the case, why don't you just buy a longer one?

Adam.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 5:53pm

Post 12 of 29

Riese

Force: 891 | Joined: 24th Feb 2002 | Posts: 199

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Adam

The whole idea is that I dont want to have to buy more cord. If I am off on the price how much am I looking at. Can you use a tape recorder with a nice microphone or will that not be high enough quality. I am tired of the wire ahhhhhhhh tard

Am I being to high tech for the amount of money I can spend. Oh and would wireless work also. I mean couldnt you get a mic with a .25 adapter and plug that into a wireless system, that runs into the camera? Is that doable?
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 5:59pm

Post 13 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Buying more cord is preferable if you have the XLR adaptor for your XL1. It's not that expensive. And with 100 bucks, it's up to you if want to try the minidisc route. But it will complicate things. Unless of course, you're willing to make that sacrifice.

I'm getting the wireless mics in the post tomorrow. I'll post here about them and the links to buy them. If they're any good...

Adam.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jan 2004, 6:17pm

Post 14 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Here's a worthwhile place - http://www.studiospares.com/viewproducts.asp?cid=2834&ctitle=XLR%20LEADS&p=1&gid=5

At least it'll give an idea about basic prices for these cables.

Adam.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 1:10am

Post 15 of 29

KimPossible

Force: 450 | Joined: 23rd Jan 2004 | Posts: 125

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

I've got Sennheiser and Behringer mics - but if you want really good selectivity and really long reach, the Azden SGM-2 is awesome.

We used one as a handheld mic (with Sennheiser wireless transmitter) at a *really* noisy trade show and it could cut all the background and 99% of the announcer noise with no post.

I can put up a demo clip or two if you want to hear it unretouched in that environment.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 2:38am

Post 16 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hey Kim, please do. It'd be nice to hear about this.

Price and usage details too?

Adam.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 2:43am

Post 17 of 29

FiveIronFrenzy

Force: 464 | Joined: 25th Dec 2003 | Posts: 438

Windows User

Gold Member

www.azden.com

P.S. Have you seen this post yet? It is funny! I posted the pics for you to look at! eek

http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12125
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 3:56am

Post 18 of 29

KimPossible

Force: 450 | Joined: 23rd Jan 2004 | Posts: 125

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Here's a sample: (WM9 MBR. 20kbit/sec audio at the highest rate of 280kbps combined)
mms://videostream-net.adflix.com/longboard/dazzle2003/kiwidazzle2003.wmv

This environment was NOISY. A lapel mic was 100% completely, totally, absolutely _worthless_ in these environs. You couldn't even hear yourself think. We tried our Lectrosonics senders with Behringer lapels and it was nothing but mush and loud speakers...

The Mic is the Azden SGM-2x. The sender is a Sennheiser ENG100/UHF. Receiver is a camera-mounted ENG100 w/XLR balanced. The audio was then relayed back to the board (this was a live webcast) from a VideoCom Technologies 5.6Ghz high-power A/V sender off the cameras unbalanced RCA audio out. The camera is my venerable Pany D760 w/DVCPro50 board.

mic to cam uplink is 10-15 feet. Uplink to the mixer (and ultimately the DVR) was ~150m in a large convention hall, from a rubber duckie on the cam to a dish at the production console.

The SGM-2 can be found carefully shopping in the sub-$200 neighborhood. I've seen them for $149. Good deal there! We have four of them, generally keep them camera mounted. It is like 18" long overall, so it's not really best mounted on consumer or most prosumer cams. The SGM-1 is for that! These mount well on full body ENG pro gear.

-------------

That answer have enough detail? I tend toward verbosity. wink
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 4:12pm

Post 19 of 29

Toxic Matter

Force: 50 | Joined: 15th Aug 2002 | Posts: 20

Member

I agree. I have the Azden SGM-2x and it was the best investment I ever made for sound. You can shorten the barrel to about 8 inches or use it with the full 16 inch. You get different sound pick up with the shorter barrel so use the long one for noisy places. It usually comes with 2 windscreens. Azden also sells a wireless trasmitter for this mic called the
41XT. As with any wireless you need to be very careful of noise.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 6:33pm

Post 20 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Well, I got both wireless mics through the post. And to be honest I wasn't expecting much. But hey, these are actually pretty damned cool!

They're AVC (Who!? confused ) WR-601 wireless mics. I've tried one of them out and it sounds really good. Noise? Not really. Picks up nicely. The only drawback is that you have to find a spot where they won't be seen, because the plastic casing for the mic is a little big. And the construction feels a little cheap. But at £10, what do you expect? The only other minor drawback is that these models will only allow for two of these to function side-by-side. Shame, as three would've been perfect for my liking.

I'm posting the seller's latest Ebay auctions so that you too, can have a look. I took a gamble and got two of them for a combined total of £22.97. I seriously think these are good for beginners on a budget.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3700729812&ssPageName=MERC_VIClosedWinner

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3700736520

Adam.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 6:42pm

Post 21 of 29

jjuerss

Force: 1150 | Joined: 5th Jul 2003 | Posts: 332

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hmmm, how do the mics plug into the AVC's transmitter? Are they hard wired or does the transmitter have a jack socket?
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 8:20pm

Post 22 of 29

KimPossible

Force: 450 | Joined: 23rd Jan 2004 | Posts: 125

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

For wireless, I really have to swear by something more pro level. The Sennheiser ENG100 is the least expensive thing we use.

In that case, there are two ways to get a mic into the Sennheiser, depending upon what you buy. A block that plugs into the mic base (and uses the mic body as an antenna) and a body pack that the mic plugs into via 1/8". The receiver will mount up with a battery box on an ENG/Pro camera (hence the ENG designation)

On my personal camera, I run 2xENG100 receivers (tons of subchannels - digitally tuned) so that I can run two mics. Generally a lapel and a hand-mic. Sometimes just two lapels.

Never any noise and hugely wide response.

Be careful to avoid VHF stuff unless you want to sound like you're talking on a cheap cordless phone. A lot more channel width in the UHF..
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 9:56pm

Post 23 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

jjuerss - The mics simply plug-in via a simple 3.5mm jack point.

KimPossible - Obviously these can't be taken seriously at a higher level. But they're not supposed to be that. Like I said, they're more for amateurs and beginners alike.

After using them for a little while, I can definitely say that they're going to be very useful for ANY film/documentary shoots. NOT for noisy environments. Well, not bad. But some post work to sort out the best sound would help. At least, that's my initial reaction.
But I do think that they're worth looking into. Let's face it, £10 is nothing when it comes to something like this.

Just remember that placement is the key to getting a fine sound. This rule applies to all ways of recording and equipment usage. And finally, when I matched a wireless mic to my overhead boom mic, it sounded very nice. Again, another great technique.

Adam.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 10:03pm

Post 24 of 29

KimPossible

Force: 450 | Joined: 23rd Jan 2004 | Posts: 125

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Adam -

Oh, absolutely! I don't think I noticed the cost on that either. Pretty aggressive!

I get to play with a lot of moderately high ended to very high ended toys - so my posts will often reflect that. I wouldn't ever fault anyone for finding toys that fit their budget! Heck - even a lot of my high end stuff is fleabay'd. I'm not stupid. wink

My SGM-2x are new, but bought on Fleabay from an authorized reseller. They were 20% less than B&H or Adorama.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jan 2004, 10:19pm

Post 25 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

That's cool Kim. I'm a recording musician, so I'm used to high-end mics and equipment too! But I like a bargain. A nice surprise to find, you know?

Adam.
Posted: Thu, 29th Jan 2004, 7:47pm

Post 26 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

BIG update! Look what I found:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3700868037

This seller has the same mics from £1 NO RESERVE!!! Wish I'd found that before I bought mine. Could've saved even more. Shucks. Mind you, one of these sets is ending soon and somebody has put in a £26 bid. Yikes...
But you know what this means? You now have NO excuse to buy one! That's an amazing find. Unless you don't like Ebay. smile

Adam.
Posted: Wed, 4th Feb 2004, 4:59pm

Post 27 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think it's important to post one last update on this wireless mic. Btw, I wrote a full update on here last night and it got erased by mistake. sad

Anyway...I decided to try my trusty grey mic. I got it free with a computer back in 1995 and in some situations even outshines my pro mics!
I attached it to the wireless receiver and it sounded much better! So, it seems that the receiver has a greater frequency range than the free mic does. The free one is up to 12500Hz and I believe the grey mic to be 15000Hz. Very interesting as this means, it's an even better deal. I wonder if the receiver allows up to 18000-20000Hz. Hmm... biggrin

It also got me thinking about buying a proper tieclip mic. I remember reading up about them for my minidisc and since it uses the same 3.5mm mini-jack input, it'll work!

Here are the links:

http://zoot.minidisc.org/minidiscv.html - tons of info for minidisc folk
http://zoot.minidisc.org/acc_table.html - scroll down to microphones

Well, thankfully I decided to write this update again. It's so worth doing for those that want better sound. As well as possibly wanting to use it with minidisc.

Adam.

EDIT: Here's that ebay seller's CHEAP auction links:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3701883652
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3701968212
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3702078644
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3702188212
Posted: Wed, 4th Feb 2004, 11:01pm

Post 28 of 29

Troy

Force: 410 | Joined: 7th Jan 2004 | Posts: 37

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040204145431149101001128738852/g=live/search/detail/base_id/109313
[/url]
[/url]
Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2004, 12:16am

Post 29 of 29

adamlightandmagic

Force: 580 | Joined: 3rd Nov 2001 | Posts: 611

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

And how much is that to the UK, then?