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LiveType ripoffs as plugins

Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 2:23pm

Post 1 of 18

JohnCarter

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I just want to point out that I am not passing judgement here or taking sides, but I would like to comment on something that irritates my sense of justice nerve:

A lot of people here go to the barricades when somebody ask for a magic code to CSB products yet some of the same people shamelessly rip-off stock footage or royalty-free footage from other softwares or from stock footage companies (Artbeats anyone?) to make plug-ins, usually in total disregard of the licence agreement that came with said software or footage, whereas the licence agreement for CSB is quoted left right and center a lot around these parts.

LiveType is a great titling software that comes free with Final Cut Pro from Apple. It has a bank of elements already alpha'd that are Royalty free AS LONG AS they are used by a OWNER of the software. Those elements, if they were to be bought from a stock footage company would costs you North of a couple of grand US. So it's very nice of Apple to let you have this app (and 3 others!) for free with their very decently priced wonderful editing application. Now I am one person who'd love for Apple to keep doing softwares like this and make them available for free when I buy their products. I use LiveType a lot. I respect my license agreement. Yet, when I saw the LiveType elements, I knew it would be easy to make plugins of those and I actually wondered how long it would take to end up on FXhome. It actually took longer than I thought. But this gets me thinking: why is there a attitude where when the company is small their rights should be more enforced whereas if you are a big company, your rights are worthless and can be trampled over?

I am not attacking CSB here, just trying to understand a behavior. CSB is not responsible about what it's user submits to them. But by submitting copyrighted or restricted by license agreements footage to CSB, you may actually endanger them. The LiveType elements that have been turned into plugins weren't even slightly modified! An Apple lawyer sees this, CSB will get in big troubles, and rightfully so, because of a user. It is the right of any company to enforce it's rights and copyrights are going through tough times these days.

I find the hypocrisy of some users here very hard to swallow. I would like to conclude by this: every person can do hisher own thing, but please, if you are ripping off others, don't come here and give lessons to "other pirates" if you are one yourself. It's a bit hard to swallow...
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 3:37pm

Post 2 of 18

b4uask30male

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Hi John,
Just commenting back, not trying to argue as you know i love you smile

csb give away the plugins free ( i know you have to buy the product ) but the plugins are not charged for.

If I brought a POSER model from Daz3D, am I not allowed to use it how I want, could I not put a still shot online and allow people to download it and draw over it if they wanted ?
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 4:32pm

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Simon K Jones

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You are, of course, correct. The plugin submission rules clearly state that the plugin and its images must have all legal issues sorted and no copyright problems. By submitting a plugin a user is confirming that they have seen to this.

If anybody spots plugins which clearly should not have been submitted, simply message the team with a link to the plugin in question and a reason for why it should not be present (preferably with a quote from the relevant licence, if applicable).
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 4:55pm

Post 4 of 18

JohnCarter

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b4uask30male wrote:

Hi John,
Just commenting back, not trying to argue as you know i love you smile

csb give away the plugins free ( i know you have to buy the product ) but the plugins are not charged for.

If I brought a POSER model from Daz3D, am I not allowed to use it how I want, could I not put a still shot online and allow people to download it and draw over it if they wanted ?
You have every right to use what you bought but even then, there's a license that limits what you can do with it. You cannot give it away for free (in your case, the model) to everybody, or make it available to download on your site (the model again I mean), etc. You bought the 3D model but the animations you make with them are yours and your copyright therefore you don't breach the limitations of your agreement when you make it available to people AS AN ANIMATION. They only have your animation, not the model itself. Even a still shot of a pose you made is copyright by you.

In the case of the LiveType footage, it is clear in the License agreement that you can use the footage as long as you are a owner of the software, therefore giving away the footage AS IS is a breach. Maybe if the maker of the plugin had modified it (beyond changing the colors, which is something you can do in the software itself), it would be different.

Not to mention that by doing this, you can hurt CSB as they do not always know where the footage came from and they have to rely on your word for it, as Tarn just said.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:04pm

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Kid

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This is asumming that the footage is from a given source and they haven't obtained the appropriate licence. The artbeats stuff for instance is available from other sources with a totally free licence and so can be distributed however you like.

Last edited Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:07pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:12pm

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Kid

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I doubt you know that for certain and also I would be interested to see how the licence differentiates between distributing the footage as part of a movie and on its own.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:12pm

Post 7 of 18

JohnCarter

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Kid wrote:

This is asumming that the footage is from a given source and they haven't obtained the appropriate licence. The artbeats stuff for instance is available from other sources with a totally free licence and so can be distributed however you like.
LiveType footage isn't distributed any other ways than with the software.

Artbeats stuff may be a different matter as they have special license for promotions (Although it usually assumed you bought a book with a CD with the Artbeats stuff in it), I agree but that's why this post is not a Artbeats ripoffs as plugins title.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:14pm

Post 8 of 18

Kid

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See my post above and try editing next time rather than deleting and reposting.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:14pm

Post 9 of 18

JohnCarter

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Kid wrote:

I doubt you know that for certain and also I would be interested to see how the licence differentiates between distributing the footage as part of a movie and on its own.
I'll post the license...

PS: My brother-in-law works for Apple... So yeah, I know for sure.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 5:41pm

Post 10 of 18

JohnCarter

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Kid wrote:

See my post above and try editing next time rather than deleting and reposting.
I had typed my answer then decided it would be clearer if I included your quote. To my knowledge, if you edit, you cannot add the quote. But feel free to corect me if I'm wrong. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 6:25pm

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sidewinder

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links to the plug-ins that are disputed?
Posted: Mon, 2nd Feb 2004, 7:37pm

Post 12 of 18

b4uask30male

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thanks JohnCarter,
I wasn't being funny, I just thought this would be the perfect thread to ask my questions.
You answered them perfect, many thanks.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Feb 2004, 1:02am

Post 13 of 18

Kid

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JohnCarter wrote:

Oh someone is quoting something I never said
As you can see you can quote anybody saying anything you like.
Posted: Wed, 11th Feb 2004, 8:36am

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BDOG

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Can you please tell us what plug-in/plug-ins you are talking about. Its silly to do such a big rant without actually telling us the plug-ins involved.
Posted: Wed, 11th Feb 2004, 2:00pm

Post 15 of 18

JohnCarter

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The plugins have been removed by CSB the day I "ranted". I had warned them of the plugins before the "rant".

They were called Detonation and I don't remember the other.
Posted: Wed, 11th Feb 2004, 5:39pm

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raider

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I think big corporations (Microsoft) overcharge for some products (check out windows xp). In my belief, they know that several people pool their money to buy this and then share it. Some programs are priced because they're meant for another company-sized organization to use. Supply and demand. CSB products are meant for the amateur user and are accordingly priced. This is why I would defend smaller companies moreso than the conglomerates.
Posted: Wed, 11th Feb 2004, 6:54pm

Post 17 of 18

JohnCarter

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Apple gives you 4 apps for a product priced at $1000 which does the exact same thing than a $50,000 AVID suite and then even more with the extra apps.

I support Apple.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Feb 2004, 3:16am

Post 18 of 18

anonymous

Hats off to JohnCarter: I agree 100%.