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I need critiques.

Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 4:03am

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Aculag

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We shot this short Saturday night. I think it's turning out really nice.
This is a rough cut, with placeholder titles, and unfinished effects.

The effect sequence you see here is just a removed background that I did really quick in after effects. I'm using Chromanator to do it better, and it looks much better so far.

The title sequence is going to take me a while, because what I have in mind is quite complex.

Anyway, what I want here is ideas for what I can do to enhance this, or fix things that are wrong with it. Should I change the title? Can you think of a better music choice? Are there some strange edits? Anything like that. You tell me. When it's all done, I'm going to upload the finished version in the cinema.

So help me out, if you think it needs help.

Full Moon (Rough)
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 4:17am

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JohnCarter

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OK. For starters, the rythm is slow (which is OK) but a bit off. Editing needs to be tighter.

Sound needs serious work but it's either too early or too late for that I guess.

Effects are in progress so no comment on that.

There is a serious jump cut when the girl picks up candy in the beginning - flip or flop the shot to fix that - it's a really weird cut. It's like the candy bowl is suddenly at her right...

You could cut faster between the girl thinking he's gay and the guy's reaction - you lose the joke's timing there.

Cut faster on the end shot on the reaction of the girl - we should move faster to the credits from there.

overall it's not bad - just needs a little tightening pass in the editing.

Last edited Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 9:54pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 4:39pm

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Aculag

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Thanks for the comments.

The sound is only like that because of the compression. Unless you're meaning something that I missed...

Also, I've been looking at the shot of the candy bowl, and I'm having trouble getting how that's an awkward cut. Care to elaborate?

EDIT: Ok, I flipped the candy bowl shot around, and it does look better now, EXCEPT! now the text on the magazine next to the bowl is backwards, and it's incredibly obvious... Any suggestions?

EDIT 2: Also... It looks like she's using her other hand to pick up the candy, so it makes a continuity error...
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 7:46pm

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JohnCarter

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What I meant is the sound is very uneven - doesn't seemed mixed at all.

Also something it is too loud, sometimes too low - it needs to be more balanced. Also seems to be a lot of BG noise.

The candy bowl shot is awkward because you jumped the axis when you shot it. We are facing the girl when she reaches for the bowl and when her hand is in it, it's like you went over her shoulder - or on the other side of the sofa - creating a weird feeling when you watch.

I'll play with the shot and try to find a solution for the flop. But I think you know what I mean if you played with it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it yesterday but try to intercut with closeups of the girl and the guy when the camera is obviously having problems. Cut to a reaction shot before we get the shaky cams...
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 8:01pm

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Aculag

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I'm fairly sure that the background noise is from the compression, because I ran it through some filters and it sounds fine. Well, as fine as something can sound when it's recorded with a mic on a camera in a large, acoustic room.

There's nothing to be done about the shot of the candy bowl. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I've been trying to cut faster to get the shaky shots gone, but when I do that, there are problems with the dialogue not matching up. Kinda hard to explain, but that's one thing that I've been working on since I started editing it, and I hope to get it fixed.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 9:02pm

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LtMcMurphy

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lolol i liekd da grrt she was hot and da guy was good aktor maybe u shud fix that blak crap tis ugly durrrrr

SO but seriously I liked it.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 9:11pm

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Solidus

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I figured that the noise I could hear was probably the compression, but I've also been there and done that with an on camera mic. It's my biggest regret with my last project that I didn't use a mic on a fishpole to get in close. It really does make a big difference on a shoot, even if you are using a regular mic strapped to a broom handel or something.

Only way to salvage is to boost the audio levels and put it through a sound package which has filters for hiss and reverb levels.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 9:17pm

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Aculag

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Yeah, but to tell you the truth, I don't really care if the audio isn't top notch for this one. The next one we shoot I'm taking all of the mistakes I've made and learning from them, and hopefully we'll get an AtomFilms.com worthy project... Heh. You know, 'cause atom films.. they're really.... strict or something...
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 9:50pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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yeah, I like this one. And the bowl thing, yeah you shoot reshoot the 1 second she reaches into the bowl. It's really bad. I could tell you more, but then I think the others already did a good job mentioning the editing to avoid some jerky moments. Please, just reshoot the bowl scene, it will do a lot for the movie.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 10:25pm

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Aculag

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Let's all assume re-shoots are not an option, just because I don't want to have to deal with it.

If that one shot ruins the movie, I can take it out. I just don't really want to have to organise a reshoot, because it's more of a hassle than it might seem.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 10:35pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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well then I'd cut out that one (To flip the picture is not an option too), but then you have one cut less and it's painful, because it was actually good. If you cut that one out, you need to replace the empty spot with some other shot, like from the door maybe.

Ok, I have an idea, do you have the book she read? Or any other book similar. Take a shot of a page of the book and cut it into the empty spot.

So she reaches for the candies CUT the pages she reads CUT she puts a candy into her mouth END

Like this you don't need to organize a reshot, you just need to take your cam and shot a page from a novel.

Just a solution.
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 10:41pm

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Aculag

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I personally think that would be WAY more jarring than if I left the shot in. Because then I'm cutting away from an action, to a book, then cutting back to an action. That wouldn't work. If I can, I'll get a re-shoot sometime this week. It is a really quick shot, after all. And if it'll satisfy all of you... wink
Posted: Tue, 6th Apr 2004, 10:54pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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no, it will satisfy you too. wink



PS.
ok. I'll be putting some links to my movies here too, so I can hear some reviews of yours, but until then I need to reshoot the entire two days we wasted shooting the first part of the film.
Posted: Wed, 7th Apr 2004, 2:05am

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Aculag

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I'm already satisfied with it. I personally think the shot is fine.

PS.
ok. I'll be putting some links to my movies here too, so I can hear some reviews of yours, but until then I need to reshoot the entire two days we wasted shooting the first part of the film.
Thanks for letting me know. smile
Posted: Wed, 7th Apr 2004, 2:05am

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elementcinema

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man as always i love your work! lol. That was so jokes! I just got time to watch it now. The story was a little far fetch'd from reality and all but still good. I liked when he was explaining himself and the moon in the background then the fire then the photo..genius. I loved it. BUT, is there anyway to get rid of the Noise in the background? once that is taken care of then it would look and sound great! also who is the girl??? I hope you mack her up. she is so fine! razz If not give me her phone number! cool jk
Posted: Wed, 7th Apr 2004, 3:28am

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Aculag

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There's not really any way to get rid of the ambience. I've tried. It sounds better, but not much. It'll be better for the final version. It's much more... steady now.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 12:59am

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Aculag

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Ok, there's a new version now. This one has better everything, except sound. The sound leaves something to be desired, but oh well. Is it better?

Full Moon (2nd Draft)
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 7:25pm

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JohnCarter

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It is slightly better but there is still plenty of room for improvements.

I assume the FX are still not final because the mask around that guy's head is all over the place. Knowing your skills in AE I am sure that's not the final product.

Needs still some tightening - but I like much better how you edited the whole knocking on door thing - much more fluid. You need to tighten the guy's reaction to the girl statement that he's gay... That joke still falls flat.

And really try to do something about the shaky cam stuff - it really distracts from the viewing enjoyment.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 7:43pm

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Aculag

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JohnCarter wrote:

It is slightly better but there is still plenty of room for improvements.

I assume the FX are still not final because the mask around that guy's head is all over the place. Knowing your skills in AE I am sure that's not the final product.

Needs still some tightening - but I like much better how you edited the whole knocking on door thing - much more fluid. You need to tighten the guy's reaction to the girl statement that he's gay... That joke still falls flat.

And really try to do something about the shaky cam stuff - it really distracts from the viewing enjoyment.
Yep, FX are still not done. Having some problems with Chromanator.

I cut back to the guy's reaction to her saying he's gay a lot quicker than last time. I'm really losing you on what you think should be done there. Can you be a bit more specific? Do you think it should cut from her back to him quicker?

I added the two shot to try and get rid of the shaky cam stuff, but in places I wanted to get rid of it, the 2 shot is even worse. So there's nothing to be done about that.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 8:05pm

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JohnCarter

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Aculag wrote:

I'm really losing you on what you think should be done there. Can you be a bit more specific? Do you think it should cut from her back to him quicker?
You should shave off his reaction time - after she says My God you're gay! he makes faces for a little while then say "oh! No!" etc...

The faces he makes before he says Oh!No! go on for too long - it feels like he has a delayed reaction - whereas the audience already gets it.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 8:13pm

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Aculag

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The point of that is that he HAS a delayed reaction. He is telling this girl that he loves her, so he thinks she feels the same way. The delayed reaction is his shock at the fact that she said that. He needed to collect himself. I think maybe the reason you think the "joke" is falling flat is because it's not actually a joke...
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 8:32pm

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JohnCarter

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If that's the emotion you wanted to put across then it's really badly acted because I don't see that in the scene and I don't feel it either. It has more elements of comedy than anything else...

I dunno then. I still think it'll be more efficient if shortened.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 8:52pm

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Aculag

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I'm sorry I didn't live up to your standards... biggrin

I think that if I shorten it, it's still going to bother you because he says "OH! No, not that." Like he's just realized what she said... If you don't think it works the way it is, I kinda doubt you'll think it works any way, but we'll see.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 9:03pm

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Aculag

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Ok, here's that part edited to take out the reaction time. Personally, when I watch it, it makes me wince. I think it's bad. But.. here it is

"Not Gay"
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 9:33pm

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JohnCarter

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Well, it's already better - you can leave a bit of his reaction before he says oh! No!

What I was trying to say was that lingering on it for so long is akward. The message you tried to convey doesn't pass (it's my opinion - nothing else). By cutting the scene a bit faster, you get rid of that lag and the thing flows more smoothly.
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 9:34pm

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Aculag

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So now it's not long enough!? Man.. nothing pleases you!!

wink
Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 11:39pm

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adamlightandmagic

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I totally agree with what John's saying. The above clip is close, but needs a little bit of reaction, otherwise it's not real. You can't just chop it off entirely! lol

Here are my other thoughts:

Aculag wrote:

There's nothing to be done about the shot of the candy bowl. ...I'm already satisfied with it. I personally think the shot is fine.
Technically, it's a bad shot. Purely because of the 'flip' nature of the shot. I won't go on about it as you seem to like it.

?? wrote:

filters for hiss and reverb levels.
A hiss one exists, but there's no such fix for reverb effects. If it was recorded like that, it's staying like that! But the noise on the track CAN be removed. Actually, HUM removal is what you really need. You could just EQ out some of the low-end. Just listen for the part where it's most prominent.

Aculag wrote:

I don't really care if the audio isn't top notch for this one.
Well, things sound fine, apart from the hum. I don't anyone can ever forget that sound is the second biggest part of your movie. It's very powerful. Just remember that your posted clips sound good. Just remember about the hum removal!

Aculag wrote:

Let's all assume re-shoots are not an option, just because I don't want to have to deal with it.
Really? Awww...


Well, that's about all. Just cut some of that gay joke that's not really a joke, down! crazy tard

Adam.

Last edited Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 12:07am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 8th Apr 2004, 11:54pm

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Aculag

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I didn't say all of those things you quoted me on... The thing about the hiss and reverb filters, that's not me.

I know the candy bowl shot is "technically" bad, but hey, "technically" I'm no pro. Heh.

Here's something that interests me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone give contructive criticism like this on a film that's in the cinema. Is it only because you know I'm not done with it that you're all giving such critiques?
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 12:03am

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adamlightandmagic

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You wanted critiques. What I've read throughout all sound very real and sincere. Sorry you don't like them, but you did ask for them. Just trying to help...

Adam.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 12:31am

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Aculag

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What? Who said I didn't like them? I have taken every comment I've gotten into consideration, and changed a lot of things based on them, there are just certain things (the candy bowl) that nothing can be done about.

I was just wondering how come no one ever posts good critiques like this for movies in the cinema. Haven't you noticed that? I hardly ever see that. I'd really like more criticisms sometimes, and I think a lot of people would as well. It's very helpful.

Did I come off as sounding like I don't appreciate the help you guys have given?
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 2:14am

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Spanish Prisoner

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nononhononononono!!!

guys, you are all wrong!

the gay situation thing is has nothing to do with cutting it tighter, no its an acting flaw there. the actors reaction is pretty much good, but after she asks if his gay, he reacts good only then his eyes are moving down right from his pov and then he sais no. well the problem is he's looking down, which

first:
makes him like he is thinking "ah? am I gay? ah no!"

second:
it's not natural and doesn't fit to the comic.

yeah, you guys may be right about the tighter cutting, but the problem is not the length of the cut, it's the reaction of the actor. the tighter cutting is only the solution, when you cut out the second where the actor looks at right with his eyes... no good acting here. otherwise perfect.

I edited the scene like I would do it if I had to fix it:

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/unbreakable/aculag_werewolf_scene_gay_divx.avi

Aculag, hope you're not mad at me for editing your movie without your permission.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 2:27am

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Aculag

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Interesting take. I think that if I were to do that, I would make the cut of delilah a little longer. The way you have it is too short, if you ask me. Although, I understand you had the constraints of not having the original footage... heh.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 2:49am

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Spanish Prisoner

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yeah you may be right, but then may be too long again. We shouldn't forget, it's something we are trying to fix, which is hard to fix unless you reshoot it.

Yeah I wish I had more original footage of Delilah... biggrin
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 3:05am

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Aculag

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I think I'm going to go with johncarter's suggestion and trim the reaction time, but make it a bit longer than what I have at the moment.

Again, I'm not really too concerned with this one, but it's definitely been a learning experience. If for nothing else, I'm glad I posted it to get some editing tips.

I will add the new knowledge I have to the next film we shoot, and like I said, I hope to put the next one on atomfilms. Even though that may be a long shot.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 3:21am

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Aculag

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Ok, here's what I came up with. Good? No?

I think it looks pretty good.
[url=http://www.dennisandronnie.com/movies/notgay2.mov]
"Not Gay 2"[/url]

I forgot to make the size smaller.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 3:29am

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JohnCarter

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That's definitely MUCH better Aculag!

See what I meant?

Sorry if I sounded harsh before - wasn't my intention - but you asked for critiques. I believe in blunt honesty in those cases.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 3:41am

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Aculag

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Blunt honesty is the best thing to give to someone who asks for critiques. I'm glad you didn't just say "It sucks" and have that be the end of it. That happened to me a couple times before.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 2:20pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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Aculag wrote:


I will add the new knowledge I have to the next film we shoot, and like I said, I hope to put the next one on atomfilms. Even though that may be a long shot.
hmm... I know Atomfilms... but haven't been there awhile. Are they really that picky?
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 2:22pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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Aculag wrote:

Ok, here's what I came up with. Good? No?

I think it looks pretty good.
[url=http://www.dennisandronnie.com/movies/notgay2.mov]
"Not Gay 2"[/url]

I forgot to make the size smaller.
well I still don't like it that much, because I know the initial reaction. That reaction where he is like "what?". But then when I was a person who hasn't seen the first cut, I'd say it's not bad... think so.

For me it doesn't seem natural or serious enough when he looks away. He should look her in the eyes.
Posted: Fri, 9th Apr 2004, 6:26pm

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Aculag

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Well, nothing can be done to change that now. Sorry. biggrin

And yes, it seems to me that atomfilms are really picky about what they put up. They've had the star wars fan film awards the last couple years, and those seem to be the most amateur of all the movies they have on there.