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Battle of Zenica (Bosnia, 1992) Beta 1

Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 10:55am

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polemarch

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Here is a small sequence from our new project War Crimes. It would be great if any of you could give it a look over. As you can see on the page, it is only partially completed but I wanted to get some comments from you chaps first. The sequence is from a part of the film where the characters arer talking about fighting in the city of Zenica (in 1992), the sequence is around 2.5 mins long and concludes the final assault to break out of the ity outskirts.

Please note that the sfx and audio sounds are only around 40% complete so please bear this in mind. Also, there is no music on the clip (yet). Take this as the beta version!
More Info
Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 12:13pm

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johns

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I think you did a great job, what did you use to get the film look? After you finished your film will you have it for viewing on the web.

Keep up the great work

John
Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 2:24pm

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polemarch

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Thanks, a lot of the look is wasted on this MPEG4 file as we have not de-interlaced it yet. We only do this with the final film. Well, its a combination of camera movement, shutterspeed and the setting up of the scene. Glad you liked it though. Hopefully the fully completed scene will be an animal smile

I forgot to add, the film is looking for a release at some point. We will be putting it out on our website though. Only in high quality mode though so it will be big smile Expect a 90min DivX file.
Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 9:04pm

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nfsbuff

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Great look and feel to the clip. I especially enjoyed your dynamic camera. There are times when a tripod is just not suitable, like in the middle of a war. Add some music and you'll have an awesome film here. I do think that your muzzle flashes need to be bigger however, and there were a couple of spots where there weren't any, but i'm sure this is because it is a beta clip. smile Can't wait to see your final product.
Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 9:40pm

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Waser

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im not the familiar with this skirmish, so ill have to go look it up. anyway, this was really impressive stuff. the camera work was great. This is easily some of the most professional stuff I have seen on FXhome. Im going to give it 4 stars because it is a beta and is missing many effects and sound which kind of take from the overall feel of the film, but I wouldnt be suprised if the final version gets a star higher
Posted: Thu, 20th May 2004, 10:14pm

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ssjaaron

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wow, that was not bad. thier could have been alittle musc and mabey more tracer sounds, and a muzzler flash or at least smoke at the end when that guy with the machine gun, moes down those guys.
hey where did you get those sounds?
good job, well shot.
peace out
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 5:57am

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ari

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i really liked the feel and look to the film. was there any color grading?

what kind of camera did you use?

good job!
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 7:32am

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Galed

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Its been a while ive seen such a good movie here...... Good work and keep it up.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 9:33am

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polemarch

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Thanks for all the comments, what you have said has been very encouraging for us. We are now spured on to make it significantly better. The film features two major action sequences, this one and a running firefight through woodland/valley.

You are correct, there is no music and lots of sfx are missing. This is literally the beta version, I wanted some opinions before we slammed into this scene and messed up the fx big time! smile

Colour grading. We have done nothing other than colour correction so far. No additional filters have been added (yet) or any other modifications to the original material. This is exactly as we shot it.

Cameras. This was shot on a Sony DSR390



and a Canon XL1




The really cool thing is that the Sony is a $10k camera whilst the Canon XL1 is a $3k camera. Can you tell which camera took which footage?! With careful planning, use of settings and a little colour correction it all splices together well.

I will answer any questions as well as I can, we have no secret techniques smile Ask away.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 2:57pm

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Calibretto

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That was great.
A couple things I'd like to say...
*Sounds
Need to be louder. Its war man. Crank it up. Watch Saving PFC. Ryan for tips on volume. You can get some really amazing war sounds from the game Combat Missions. It was just released on PC.
*Effects
I liked the feel that you had, but (like has already been pointed out) gun flashes need to be bigger. Not to big though, a lot of people get it wrong on size (again SPR will be good for refference).
*Actors Geting Shot
When someone (or something) gets shot, instead of just falling backwards, maybe have them react like they just got punched really really hard. I've found that is the best way to show it on camera.
*Smoke
I really liked how you had the smoke in there (what did you use to create that effect? As well as the bullets hitting things).
*Dirty
I love the feel that dirt has in war movies. It becomes your best friend (fox holes). I think it would be cool to have more dirt flying.

These are just my thoughts, I'm not saying "Hey! Go do these things!" I am only suggesting what I've learned.

Again Great work.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 4:34pm

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Greyo

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Hey Calibretto,

I was location manager for this film and the smoke and bullet hit effects were done on set using stage pyrotechnics from a company called Le Maitre I believe.

Hey Mike,

again this looks great i love to see all those guys falling about and not one major injury occured smile can't wait to see the rest of the footage and the finished film.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 5:41pm

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terrain23

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This is a nice clip. It is almost hard to believe that this is a beta version. I cannot wait to see the final product. Right now I give a 4/5 but when final version comes out I am sure it will be a 5. Nice Work!
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 5:53pm

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Brettsta

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That was very cool. The camerawork was great. The smoke effects are cool too. Becase this is a beta, Im giving a 4. Im sure the final thing with all the effects and music will be 5 star worthy smile. The only thing Id recommend when you film is using a live blood method, because there has to be something added when the soldiers get shot down. Other than that, great work.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 6:04pm

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Greyo

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Brettsta,

trust me there are going to be some very cool blood effects when the final film is done.

I remember reading somewhere that because military uniforms are thick that when shot you don't really get a big splatter of blood coming out - don't know how true that is
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 7:32pm

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Kyeju

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This was a cool clip. I'm not satisfied with the alam fx but the practical effects were badass.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 8:39pm

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Calibretto

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I can see how the blood wouldn't shot out when someone gets shot. When you shot a deer it doesn't fly everywhere. Its just a little splat. But once the hole is there the blood flows like crazy.
I personally think that when a person gets shot its just like the old movies. Just the speck of dust, but the biggest seller on film is the reaction from the actor. The dust just lets you know what happened. On the movie We Were Soldiers they used some really cool effects for the effect of getting shot.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 10:19pm

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pboniface

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oh no, when a person gets shot, its nothing like "the movies". unless you count geting shot by a .22 or .177 air rifle... getting shot with modern weaponry makes a mess., a big mess.... the entry wound might only seem a small pinprick, but the exit wound is a big ol' hole where your spine used to be.. or wherever the bullet comes out, not necessarily opposite to where it went in, the U.K. L85 (SA80) Assault rifle is designed to spit lead at 980 Metres per second with enough spin so that it could hit you in the leg and come out of your back.. It isnt pretty.
Posted: Fri, 21st May 2004, 10:56pm

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polemarch

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yeh its true, the entry wounds are quite small in real life, think of the velocity of a round, it blows everything forward, not back the way it came smile if you check out the pics on our website you will see a head wound and our make up people tried to make it as realistic as possible, notice the huge exit wound in the back of the head, thanks for all your comments, but do remember, this is a beta, missing tonnes of effects and sounds, as well as music
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 12:58am

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Sting939

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I thought that this scene was really well done. After everything is put together, this should be a really great film, I can't wait to see the final product.

One comment I had was about the people being shot at the end (with the belt fed machine gun). Probably shouldn't have the people just running into fire and not doing anything. From the time the first bullet is shot to the time the last guy falls is 10 seconds, and the soldiers kepts running into the fire, not doing anything. Maybe next time show the troops in the back trying to stop, or at least reacting is some way to the people that are dying just feet in front of them.
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 1:15am

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Aculag

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Polemarch, as much as I appreciate your effort, I am really having a hard time figuring out what's so great about this clip. It looks nice yes, obviously the finished film has high production values, but this is an unfinished sequence. Very unfinished. It doesn't make me say "wow" at all. I liked the fact that you used practical effects for the explosions and such, but other than that, this is kinda bleh.

I'm curious...Why didn't you use blank firing guns?

I'm not going to rate this because it's not even a finished clip.
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 2:00am

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Greyo

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Aculag,

To kit out people with blank firing weapons would be an expensive task, one which is beyond low-budget films like this, the production value looks great considering the budget these guys are working with for a war film.

There was a one blank firing gun but due to circumstances beyond the control of the production it was unavailable for the day of shooting.
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 2:02am

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Aculag

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Yeah I figured it was budget constraints.
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 8:11am

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ilykdp

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i can tell alot of effort went into this film, but it was definately lacking in basic movie elements:

character depth, plot, theme, anything

but it was entertaining nonetheless

I think some of your movie screenshots are blurry-looking because you didn't deinterlace the frame when taken out of the movie.

This is vital for a clear screenshot or single frame from a movie timeline or clip; assuming you pulled out a frame from a larger movie clip (in premiere, final cut, etc.) there is usually a deinterlace option. Deinterlace the frame to cut out the crossing-bars things.

ILYKDP
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 8:13am

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ilykdp

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in regards to my last post, i didnt read the movie description.

silly me

if this is only a portion of the movie, then im sure the final product will be excellent
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 9:13am

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Snipamasta

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this is a pretty decent clip...final product should be great! biggrin
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 6:27pm

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kevinmcpoland

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I'm not sure what the purpose of showing a clip so incomplete is, because if 60% of the audio is still missing, then the whole feel of the clip could be so different... (it's amazing how much good audio (or sometimes the silences!) can make a scene).

But still, my observations (as that is what you seem to be seeking) would be as follows.

1. The few Alam FX have the same problem as quite a few people encounter, and that is they don't match the film grade. What I mean is that in the shots with the visible gunfire flare, the soldiers are behind layers of smog/smoke etc, but the muzzle flash is so white it doesn't match.

2. The machine gun sequence when the soldiers keep walking to their deaths, seems to me that this was actually the best time for muzzle flash, but nothing, just a wobbling gun.

3. As has been mentioned, when being fired upon the human being's self preservation mode kicks in, and people dive for cover or try to back up (just watch any news bulletin in relation to Iraq). By your soldiers keeping on running forward into certain doom (their guns were not even held up in a firing position), to me you removed all sense of reality. If they were passionate freedom fighters a second ago, why suddenly turn into voluntary cannon fodder?

Still, just observations....

Kevin McPoland
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 7:09pm

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Cypher

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Superb production value, as in onset things (camerawork, costumes, pyro etc)...but the post, even tho not finished, needs to be improved. Like kevinmcpoland said, the muzzle flashes seem too fake and not big enough. Adding smoke to the guns will help.
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 7:46pm

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jetaimaster

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the captain dude looks real which helped this clip seem more like a film
the dialogue at the end isn't too good
or u could have the actor say it better
Posted: Sat, 22nd May 2004, 8:10pm

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Atom

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Well done! The filming, sound, (well, most of it) and content were all impecibly presented. I thought the characters were well displayed, and the dialogue flowed pretty well. (nice subtitles) Can't wait to see a finished product. Until then, good job. (you might want to go back and work on some of your muzzle flashes, but that's it) Thanks for a good reply on my movie, and can't wait to see more.
Posted: Sun, 23rd May 2004, 4:34am

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Axel

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G'day budz, great work again!!!
I just picked up on two minor things...
1) the troops when their entering a building shound move like ther have a purpous and should be splitting up if differant directios through out the facility and not just all facing in one direction and not in single file.
2) same thing as the few previous guy's have mentioned is about the main leaders speach @ the end, needs to be a little more strict like something off of the movie; "Majour Payn": "good job you maggots!" lol jk, you'z have done a great job of this clip, thats for sure! I'd give it a 7 out of 10
peace out! \oo/o
Posted: Sun, 23rd May 2004, 8:33am

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Bryce007

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Good production values.

Heres a few things that werent so good:

1. (as already mentioned) the scene with the m249 mowing down all those dudes. No trained soldier would ever, ever just run out into the open without throughly looking around. furthermore, anyone with half a brain wouldnt run directly into gunfire, even if they didnt see it, they would hear it. (m249's are incredibly loud)

2. The camera panning inside the building they were going into dipped around and wasnt smooth at all. (if that was attempting to be Doc-style, the movement would be to slow and floating)

3. Its seemed to be alot of running around and people running into positions, but not much else. The grenade scene was overtly unrealistic, far to undamaging and small.

4. the same bullet zipping sound effect was used over and over.


The other day i was looking around online and found this, which i consider to be very well shot. http://www.sundevilpictures.com/outpost.htm

anyways, thats my 3 cents
Posted: Sun, 23rd May 2004, 7:36pm

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Calibretto

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It was just a beta, it seems that everyone is forgetting that.
There were some problems, but I'm sure they wanted to see what people thought about it. Aculag is insanely critical, (it seems that people favor his movies, for who knows what reasons) I don't even like reading his posts. I think its awesome to see this movie, even though it had some little problems. THIS SITE NOT A PROFESSIONAL SITE! Look at some of the crap that has been posted on this site. Even for a beta, this was some good work; just wait for the final product.
Posted: Sun, 23rd May 2004, 7:56pm

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Mellifluous

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This is a good movie beta; I agree that the angle interior shot needs to be sped up. For a further war effect, you could drain the colour & add a film speckled effect, as if dust is flying at the camera.

I don't know what angle the film is coming from, but the "unrealistic" stuff happens in all movies, e.g. soldiers surviving against all odds, gung-ho action. That's what most war films deliver, right? More explosions would be good, & you could also add building damage. There are some plugins of rocks & stuff that you could add flying everywhere.

It is a beta so people will find faults with it. As such, people won't really think about the final film - they look at what's presented so far.

Aculag is being a bit too critical but that's his opinion, & you shouldn't personally attack him. His films tend to be rather fun & usually well made. As you say, look at all the other crap that's been posted smile

Last edited Mon, 24th May 2004, 7:15am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 24th May 2004, 5:32am

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Bryce007

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Well, i suppose if i compared it to alot of the other stuff on this site, this is quite good...
Posted: Sat, 5th Jun 2004, 2:35am

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DeezNutz24

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I like it alot. Almost perfect. I would have liked more close ups on a main soldier, to see his feeligs, it would make it more intense. Very good overall.
Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004, 10:45pm

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Two Gunned Saint

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Was it just me, or did all of a sudden some of the soldiers would alternate between being right and left handed, maybe I'm seeing things.

Good film though, the bits before and after the actual combat where the better parts, some nice shots. The actual fight lacked intensity I thought, personally I think it'd be better, more visceral and tense. If you made it faster, louder and more kinetic, but that's just me.