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Vx2100E help

Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 2:05pm

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billy3d

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I'v been looking all over for a reply, even posted on some Vx2100E user groups, still waiting for a reply. Now my question is when i shot in progressive mode, and captured to my comp, with Studio8 and a Pinnacle AV/DV capture card (i dont edit in Studio8, just capture the video) Now when i got this video into Aftereffect's every frame repeat's once. I dunno why. But the video looks a little slow or has a strobing effect in the view finder when shooting. How can i get proper 25p. Also i cant find the custom preset button! The manual stinks, it says what it does but not exactly where it is.
billy3d
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 3:22pm

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billy3d

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hmmm here is a link for a video show with it, its small in res, but 25fps, see that every frame repeats once. Is on geocities so i'm gonna exceed my bandwith in notime mad
http://www.geocities.com/billyfx/ProgressiveProblem.mov
Is this how a progressive scan looks? Cuz i'v never used progressive mode.
billy3d
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 3:23pm

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Mellifluous

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Looks like you exceeded it in 2 minutes sad
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 3:30pm

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billy3d

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heh
now for the replies biggrin
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 6:44pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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Silence...

smile
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 7:25pm

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Solidus

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Rating: +1

I'v been looking all over for a reply, even posted on some Vx2100E user groups, still waiting for a reply. Now my question is when i shot in progressive mode, and captured to my comp, with Studio8 and a Pinnacle AV/DV capture card (i dont edit in Studio8, just capture the video) Now when i got this video into Aftereffect's every frame repeat's once. I dunno why. But the video looks a little slow or has a strobing effect in the view finder when shooting. How can i get proper 25p. Also i cant find the custom preset button! The manual stinks, it says what it does but not exactly where it is.
billy3d
It's because the VX2100 doesn't shoot 25p, it shoots 12.5p on the PAL and 15p on the NTSC version. So that's why it looks stuttery. The only 'cheap' consumer camera that can do progressive at 24p and regular framerates is the Panasonic.

So what is the use of 12.5fps progressive? Well it's good for fast action stuff, you get that stuttery look like in Gladiator and other films. It's good for non active stuff. Also probably it's best use is as a motor drive stills camera, because it's essentially a Digital SLR that is taking photos at 25fps.


The Custom Preset button is on the end of the handle, close to the viewfinder. It has a white label 'CUSTOM PRESET' biggrin
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 7:57pm

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Mellifluous

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It's also good if you want to slow down your footage; In my experience, progressive mode slowed-down results in ultra smooth slow motion, with very high quality picture.
Posted: Mon, 7th Jun 2004, 8:19pm

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Solidus

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Yes that is very true, especially if you alter the shutter speed as well.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 2:41am

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Bryce007

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You cant alter the shutter speed when progressive is on.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 3:08am

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Gibs

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I remember Schwar saying that the VX2100 is the only camera that shoots true progressive, as it has progressive CCDs. Solidus, are you saying that true progressive is half frame rate, or did I miss something here. confused
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 4:25am

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Bryce007

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Im Not one to answer questions directed at others. The vx2100 shoots true progressive, but only at 15 fps.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 4:52am

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billy3d

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dude's so i wasted just a load of money, for the vx2100E thinking it could do 25p?! Schwar!!! i listened to you, i need an explination mister biggrin
Seriously is there no way to shoot 25p in the vx2100E? Everyone was like if ya got the cash get the vx2100E or else get the XM2
Oh and +1 for you solidus
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 6:27am

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Bryce007

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The vx2100 is the best prosumer cam out there as far as im concerned. progressive isn't as big of feature as everyone thinks, unless you plan on tranferring to film. Everything else other than the progressive framerate is absolute top notch for a camera in this price range.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 9:17am

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Joshua Davies

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The VX2100 does have a true progressive CCD pickup although it doesn't run full frame rate just like the VX2000. Apparently it was going to run 25/30FPS but for some reason this feature wasn't included in the final version.
Seems like Sony dropped one of the main features people were looking for. I was talking to someone else the other day who said they tested one in a shop but it had no 25FPS Progressive - they had also read that it did on the internet. That makes the 24FPS Panasonic the only camera with true progressive pickup at full frame rate - although the simulated progressive on the XM2 is very good.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 9:34am

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billy3d

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waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh! frown why!!! why!!!!
i wish i had spent more time researching razz
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 9:36am

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Joshua Davies

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It is very odd that Sony only states its camera as "Progressive" but doesn't give a framerate in most places - a wee bit evil. Hope you can take your camera back and get something else if you need progressive.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 2:38pm

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Solidus

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You cant alter the shutter speed when progressive is on.
I just switched my camera on, put it into progressive and changed the shutter speed.... so it works fine.


Do you really need 24 or 25fps progressive scan though? The only camera you can get that feature on at resonable money is the Panasonic at another 2 and half grand on top of the VX. People really do seem to constantly be making a big deal over progressive scan when it really isn't that much of an issue.

Here are some stills I made from the first short I've shot on using my VX2100:










Now I shot this abroad and it has not proper lighting to it, however with a few filters thrown on, I think it looks pretty good and the feedback I have recieved is also the case.

Last Friday, it was shown with other films from my University course on a full size cinema screen for the general public and industry. Did it need to be transfered to film? No... did it need to be 25p? No?

It might get entered into Bradford's Shine Film Festival next year..... and this is just proof that if your films are good enough, they can be shown without the need to transfer to film.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 2:39pm

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Brettsta

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Those are cool, but you should play witht the focus, cause theyre kind of blurry. But maybe that was the look you were going for?
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 2:54pm

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Solidus

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It's not out of focus on the actual video... those stills just seem to have come out like that for some reason.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 3:33pm

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billy3d

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sorry, cuz i got it at a discount from a store that was closing down, gonna head off the sony world tommrow to see what i can do. But still is it the best camera, excluding the crap progressive scan?
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 4:12pm

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Brettsta

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billy3d wrote:

sorry, cuz i got it at a discount from a store that was closing down, gonna head off the sony world tommrow to see what i can do. But still is it the best camera, excluding the crap progressive scan?
I wouldnt consider it crap progressive scan.... But yeah, its the best camera, besides the panasonic whihch is a few thousand more. So best for the money I guess. The progressive scan is really powerful compared to canon cameras.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 5:42pm

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Cutty201

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I hate to be a stinker, billy3d, but my post most likely isn't going to help you, but others who were looking to buy a cam with the progressive feature. So now I ask why hasn't anyone mention the Canon GL2 ? As far as I am concerned the Canon is one of the most amazing Camera's out there but no one has brought it up, only the Panasonic? Just to verify before I posted I am going to quote the Canon website:


Frame Movie Mode
Unlike Normal Movie Mode, where video is captured using interlaced frames, in Frame Movie Mode video is captured by the GL2 in a non-interlaced form at the rate of 30 frames per second. This delivers spectacular clarity -- perfect for those who need to grab high-quality images from videos for making prints, adding website content, or sending images over the Internet. This non-interlaced method was popularized by Canon's XL1S and has been acknowledged by users for its cinematic-like appearance.
And the Prices from FotoConnection (i picked them just cuz they came up first) are:

VX2100 - $1879
GL2 - $1499

Here is the comparison of them. I think they are in the same league.

....Heh I am sorry this doesn't really help you I guess, just wanted to point out that I don't think you need to spend a "couple of thousand more" on a Panasonic to get the Progressive feature. Sorry bout your cam dude smile

===EDIT====
OOOH MY BAD sorry bout that, completely forgot about the 24FPS feature confused Tho, I think that as long as ytouy get Progressive Footage you slowing it down in Post does the trick. Motion Perfect WORKS INCREDIBLY awesome for me, producing GREAT results smile

===EDIT 2====

Um hey ... Billy could you send me a clip of that 15FPS on Progressive I want to try something smile
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 6:30pm

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Joshua Davies

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15FPS progressive is utterly rubbish really and has pretty much no useful application.

Progressive is a really useful option - we use it all the time.
1) Its best if you are making stuff for the internet, projection or printing to film.
2) It makes compositing easier.
3) Its better than deinterlacing interlaced footage where you drop image information.
4) It contributes towards "film look".

The only thing progressive isn't better for is TV playback (unless you have a progressive screen).

The pretend progressive on the XM2/GL2 at least does run at full frame rate and the camera is cheaper than the VX2100. Sure the VX2100 does have a better CCD in low light conditions but thats about it - its a great interlaced camera but putting 15FPS progressive on it is just silly.

Try and get an XM2 billy3d if you can.
Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004, 7:32pm

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Solidus

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You still haven't said why you actually need progressive scan? Over just shooting in normal interlaced.
Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2004, 11:46am

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billy3d

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hmm, now i cant i'm stuck with it sad oh well, atlest its the best excluding the crap pscan and cutty its 12.5progressive i think, i'v added u on AIM, i'll send it when u log on.