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sword stab effect

Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 7:15pm

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tylerw

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Hello all.

Can someone really explain to me a realistic and efficient (& somewhat safe) way of creating a stabbing effect with a full scale, fully functional sword? This effect would involve the actor plunging the blade into the stunt actor and a blood squirt reaction all in one shot: no jump cuts involved.

I'm not talking about the cheesy side angle where the sword is shoved under the armpit.

Thanks for your help!

Tyler

-Oh, and no one try to be funny by saying, 'just really stab the guy and get real blood lol'
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 7:37pm

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Ryan

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Um, maybe a dummy with a bag of fake blood to stab...

I really don't know. confused
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 7:41pm

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Slick

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Well I guess you could setup a squip and poke it... but it wouldnt work if you want the sword to go through the actor.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 7:44pm

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aenigma

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cg the blade, use a dummy like ryan said or go with the cheesy armpit move.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 7:45pm

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Ryan

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Ya know, it would be pretty complicated, but if you use your imagination and Chromy you could probably do it. Film both actors separately (make sure the camera doesn't move and that the exposure is locked) and cut it together with chromy. I still don't know about the blood and it could be pretty hard to make it work.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 8:52pm

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tylerw

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well, thanks for the suggestions.

I did have another idea. I think they did this in LOTR (FOTR) when Aragorn fought Lurtz. Tell me what you think...

Create a rubber (or even wood) duplicate of the sword w/out the blade tip. If swung quickly and if the stab was smooth, the camera wouldn't pick up the blade length. The blood pack could break just by the sheer force of the stab. By that time I would cut to another shot.

Hmmm- might work

Thanks again
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 9:36pm

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Evman

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i think your best bet would be to use a shortened blade, like you said, and do everything else with the blood pack. Then, in post, add a CG blade to make it full length, or there could be a plugin for the end of a sword (i don't know if it exists, but someone could make it) for Alam DV if you cant do the CG thing...
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 9:51pm

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Gibs

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I certainly wouldn't go as far as making a dummy or trying to recreate a sword with CG. Shoot a bunch of angles, and a blood pack or something like the others suggested. Then on the computer, cut the angles in really quickly, and it should look pretty good.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 9:54pm

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Evman

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tylerw wrote:


This effect would involve the actor plunging the blade into the stunt actor and a blood squirt reaction all in one shot: no jump cuts involved.

That, and why should you not go that far? It would make the shot look real cool and would enhance the believability.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 9:56pm

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Ryan

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That, and why should you not go that far? It would make the shot look real cool and would enhance the believability.
One word:

Budget
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 9:57pm

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Evman

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Ryan wrote:


That, and why should you not go that far? It would make the shot look real cool and would enhance the believability.
One word:

Budget
He already has Alam.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:02pm

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Ryan

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Two more words:

Artistic creativity

It's hard to make a realistic dummy.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:03pm

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Evman

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Ryan wrote:

Two more words:

Artistic creativity

It's hard to make a realistic dummy.
Dont use a dummy! Just use the short, blade trick that i mentioned.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:07pm

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Pooky

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You could always stab the guy for real... rolleyes
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:15pm

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Ryan

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tylerw wrote:


-Oh, and no one try to be funny by saying, just really stab the guy
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:24pm

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Aculag

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evman, what's up with you trying to argue with everyone about everything lately?
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:29pm

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Evman

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Aculag wrote:

evman, what's up with you trying to argue with everyone about everything lately?
I dunno.

A) - Im bored cause its summer
B) - I like to argue
C) - I dunno
D) - Did i mention im bored
E) - I think (in this case at least) that my suggestion is better.
F) - Sorry if im offending anyone
G) - I like to be on the "other" side
H) - I gotta go now before this really bad Thunderstorm knocks out my computer.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:40pm

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aenigma

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Rating: +2

if you had a flexible blade you could just stick it through a hole in their shirt etc. then film it being yanked out. then just play the clip in reverse and it would look like they got stabbed.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:40pm

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Pooky

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Ryan wrote:

tylerw wrote:


-Oh, and no one try to be funny by saying, just really stab the guy
Oops Sorry didn't notice that redface
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:47pm

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Evman

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pooky wrote:

Ryan wrote:

tylerw wrote:


-Oh, and no one try to be funny by saying, just really stab the guy
Oops Sorry didn't notice that redface
sure you didn't... wink
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:48pm

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Aculag

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evman101 wrote:

A) - Im bored cause its summer
B) - I like to argue
C) - I dunno
D) - Did i mention im bored
E) - I think (in this case at least) that my suggestion is better.
F) - Sorry if im offending anyone
G) - I like to be on the "other" side
H) - I gotta go now before this really bad Thunderstorm knocks out my computer.
I) - !listen i like creamy man batter
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:52pm

Post 22 of 27

Evman

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Aculag wrote:

evman101 wrote:

A) - Im bored cause its summer
B) - I like to argue
C) - I dunno
D) - Did i mention im bored
E) - I think (in this case at least) that my suggestion is better.
F) - Sorry if im offending anyone
G) - I like to be on the "other" side
H) - I gotta go now before this really bad Thunderstorm knocks out my computer.
I) - !listen i like creamy man batter
Maybe im missing something...
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 10:56pm

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Gibs

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He wouldn't have to use a jump cut. If he just cut to a shot of the guy's face in pain when the sword entered, then he wouldn't actually have to show the sword going in.

I feel like a moron arguing with you, when you aren't even asking the question, but oh well.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:32pm

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Evman

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Lloyd66 wrote:

He wouldn't have to use a jump cut. If he just cut to a shot of the guy's face in pain when the sword entered, then he wouldn't actually have to show the sword going in.

I feel like a moron arguing with you, when you aren't even asking the question, but oh well.
Just saying that it would look real cool if he just used the Alam method. Its up to him anyway. No use in arguing about it. Let him decide on his own.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:35pm

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tylerw

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Thanks. I think I'll just go for the shortened blade deal. I don't want CG involved in the shot for simplicity (considering it will be about a 4-5 second shot). Anyways, thanks again.

Oh, about the jump cuts; this specific shot is meant for impact on the audience- to show the intensity of the battle. With sudden jump cuts, the audience wouldn't have time to comprehend the action. But, a lot of the other skilled attacks & parrying done by the hero will be w/ jump cuts.
In FOTR, they do what I'm talking about several times in the Amon Hen fight sequences.

Ty

Also, for anyone who's interested, I found a really cool site that may work.
Great RP sword tutorial



[url] http://home.clara.net/arianrhod/Aldebaran/DoItYourself/index.html


Someone made this using that technique:

[/url] http://www.geocities.com/twilightbanana/bit.htm

It would be good for gritty stunts
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 5:39pm

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geigel1

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There is a stage illusion (I forget the name) where the sword looks real but is extremely flexible. The stabee wears this metal device under his clothes that bends around the body from the front to the back...when you stab him you are actually inserting the sword into the metal device where it guides the sword around the body of the actor and comes out the back...looks very real...you will have to hunt under magic catalogs though.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 5:54pm

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Arktic

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geigel1 -

It's a nice stage illusion (for a amazing/terrifying version of the effect, watch out for a performance of it by Simon Drake) - however, it probably wouldn't be much use in a film, as it's a very fiddly thing - and you could never do it quickly, so that it looked like they were really being stabbed. The only possible use I can see would be for a reverse angle shot as the sword penetrates from the person's back.

However, you're going to be looking at about £50-£100 for that effect, which is a lot to pay for one shot.

I reccon you'd be much better off doing the effect digitally smile

Cheers,
Arktic.