You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Fahrenheit 9/11

Page 1 of 2: 1, 2 | Next

Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:47pm

Post 1 of 283

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Wow... just got back from seeing this... Definately a well done documentary. I'll be shocked if Bush wins again... I doubt he will after this flick...
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:51pm

Post 2 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Looks awesome, I'll be seeing it soon.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:52pm

Post 3 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I want to see this, but don't know anyone who will go with me. Although... I might.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:52pm

Post 4 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I hate when this happens! Usually I would see this, because its supposed to be good, but I don't agree with the message of the film. No matter how hard I try, I will just be disagreeing with the film in my mind, depite any attempts to just look at the filmmaking.

I think it will ruin the whole experience for me, so i might as well save money. neutral
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:54pm

Post 5 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Well, I normally don't agree with anything Michael Moore says, and I'm a republican, so I have no idea why I want to see it, but I really do. I also don't want to spend the money on it.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:55pm

Post 6 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:55pm

Post 7 of 283

PhLogan

Force: 490 | Joined: 1st May 2004 | Posts: 290

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Gonna see it tommorwo night (Saturday). Cant wait. I loved Bowling for Columbine, and this one looks better.

Pooky - last night in the chat you said it looks boring! tard
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:56pm

Post 8 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Heh, I was only judging by the name and the poster.

Then I found out it was anti-bush........ biggrin joking.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:58pm

Post 9 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

pooky wrote:

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
I want to see it because it looks like it was well done, but i wont agree with it, so i would feel really angry and not pay any attention to the film itself.

So i might as well stay out of it.

The movie only shows what it wants to show by the way, he cuts it together to make it seem like ONLY his view is right. As is the case with most biased documentaries.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:59pm

Post 10 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

The movie only shows what it wants to show by the way, he cuts it together to make it seem like ONLY his view is right. As is the case with most biased documentaries.
Of course, but that doesn't mean his view is wrong. biggrin
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2004, 11:59pm

Post 11 of 283

PhLogan

Force: 490 | Joined: 1st May 2004 | Posts: 290

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Also the case with EVERY news program you may watch out there.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:02am

Post 12 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Ok wait let's not start another one of these debates...
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:03am

Post 13 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

It's not a debate, pooky. It's discussion about a film. The film is about politics, so of course politics will come up.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:23am

Post 14 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

pooky wrote:

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
I want to see it because it looks like it was well done, but i wont agree with it, so i would feel really angry and not pay any attention to the film itself.

So i might as well stay out of it.

The movie only shows what it wants to show by the way, he cuts it together to make it seem like ONLY his view is right. As is the case with most biased documentaries.
Interesting view on things...

Wether or not you agree with a subject, you should still listen to what the other person has to say.

That being said, I tend to agree with you that Michael Moore's documentaries are a bit elastic on the truth at times. He does exagerate to make his point. And sometimes he does go too far. Which damages his credibility. In the end, it is a show too though... Like reality TV - so things need to be helped I guess, at least that's what Moore seems to think and I view his stuff as docutainment...

But having seen the trailer, he couldn't pick a better subject. Bush doesn't need help to put his foot in his mouth and manages to sound both arrogant AND stupid at the same time... Some scary comments there too...

I am curious to see but like with everything, you have to take and leave... That's where a good critical sense comes into action.

And as far as this: "Also the case with EVERY news program you may watch out there."

You are right to a certain extent but the same can be said of what the government says as well... So far, not much of what the White House did say turned out to be true... And the White House statements were contradicted almost daily during the public inquiry...

Mulder was right: TRUST NO ONE!!!
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:25am

Post 15 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I agree with your statements, JohnCarter.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:49am

Post 16 of 283

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'm planning on making a documentary with compelling evidence against Michael Moore.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:51am

Post 17 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I would pay to watch that.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:51am

Post 18 of 283

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

But there are so many shots where bush is caught on camera looking like a complete idiot... lol, its funny as hell.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 12:52am

Post 19 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Somebody beat you to it. It's done. Coming out soon.

It's called Michael Moore hate America: http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

Sounds like the filmmaker used Moore's exageration techniques against him.

It's bound to be interesting... Although it does seem as one sided as Moore can be after watching the trailer... Hopefully it will balance itself out.

EDIT: I got beaten to it too! 2 posts before I could answer. I was referring to the documentary against Moore.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:13am

Post 20 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

JohnCarter wrote:

I


Wether or not you agree with a subject, you should still listen to what the other person has to say.

I already know what the other side is. I've seen all the arguments already from friends, TV, internet, etc.

I guess what im trying to say is that i can be angry at so many things already, why should i pay to see something that i've already heard, and will make me angry. Who wants to pay to be angry.

Plus i don't want him having my 7 bucks
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:14am

Post 21 of 283

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

If I spend money on the movie, I support Micheal Moore.

And I don't support him in any way.

http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Have fun.


Oh Pooky, you personify the uninformed liberal.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:16am

Post 22 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sidewinder wrote:

If I spend money on the movie, I support Micheal Moore.

Oh Pooky, you personify the uninformed liberal.
-Exactly

-Yes, I was thinking the same thing Pooky.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:18am

Post 23 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I have to see this movie. it looks so funny! I'm a republican but I don't like Bush to much. Mainly because of the us patriot act. omg what was congress thinking by passing that?!? If I was to guess I would say Bush isn't a republican...he's more of a socialist. I mean I like a few of the things he has done but all in all he is just like his Pa that wanted the UN to run everything. Bush is NOT a conservative.

Now don't get the impression that that means I like Kerry. He would suck just as bad as Bush. He would use the us patriot act to allow him to put the US army under UN power. (he said he wanted the US army under UN control) and besides.....the pope told all Roman Catholics to oppose same sex marriage. (Kerry is a Roman Catholic) Kerry’s response to this was, “Even though I am a devout Roman Catholic I do not feel that I should impose my religious beliefs upon myself” (I'm just saying that quote from memory. it might have like an "a" or sothing missing. but that is what he said)

that's just a stupid thing to say. if you don't impose your beliefs on yourself then why have them? lol

so all in all no one is perfect. I don't think either man is fit to run the country. vote ralph nader!!! lol jk (I would never vote for that fool)

Oh, back to the movie. I have to see it because any movie that has a man in an icecreame truck reading the patriot act has to be the best movie ever!

btw I do think that Bush is the lesser evil.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:19am

Post 24 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I don't want to support Moore though.....
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:21am

Post 25 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sidewinder wrote:

If I spend money on the movie, I support Micheal Moore.

And I don't support him in any way.
See, this is my precise viewpoint. I don't want to spend the money to see it, because that's supporting Moore. Maybe I'll whip out my swashbuckling costume.... *WINK* *WINK*

Yarr...
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:29am

Post 26 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'll join you. heh

I hate Moore. Most of that movie will be stupid crap that he made up. But the icecreame truck and the us patiot act will be funny.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:30am

Post 27 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

ill join, but i don't want to be swashbuckling. I'll just shoot him. wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:33am

Post 28 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

crap, I wanted to shoot him. taking all my fun cry
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:33am

Post 29 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

ill join, but i don't want to be swashbuckling. I'll just shoot him. wink
It's comments of this nature that gives Republicans a bad name... wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:34am

Post 30 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

oh, I guess mine didn't help....

but of course it's all in jest
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:36am

Post 31 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

WiRyPoCkEtLiNt wrote:

oh, I guess mine didn't help....

but of course it's all in jest
Yours happened while I was typing the other.

But yeah... Notice the smiley...
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:37am

Post 32 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

JohnCarter wrote:

evman101 wrote:

ill join, but i don't want to be swashbuckling. I'll just shoot him. wink
It's comments of this nature that gives Republicans a bad name... wink
Not a republican. I don't want to be called a republican cause it locks down my views. Im basically a republican, but i don't want to be so narrow minded as to blindly follow my party where ever it may go. No offense. wink

Last edited Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:38am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:38am

Post 33 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

So then you're not going to vote, when you're old enough?
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:39am

Post 34 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

ill vote for whoever i think will better our country. Or at least the lesser of two evils.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 1:49am

Post 35 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

ill vote for whoever i think will better our country. Or at least the lesser of two evils.
Smart move. Basically reflects my own view.

No offense taken BTW - I was joking too.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:01am

Post 36 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I feel Bush is the lesser evil. I would vote for Bush. I could never vote for Kerry [shudders at the thought of Kerry with power]

I would like Bush if it wasn't for the patiot act.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:30am

Post 37 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Michael Moore (in my opinion) is an extremely gifted man. Yes, I'm a democrat, so you Republicans are prob. saying "Well, he's DEFINATELY gonna' be against Bush. He's a DEMOCRAT. (add snooty high-pitched voice here) " But truthfully, he's a good man with a good message. It's not an elaborate plan to rig the November election. It's not an Anti-Bush/Bush hate film. It's his view of today's politics, and how corrupt they are. It's not meant to be a documentary. It's a only a MOVIE. He means it to be truthful, yes. But, by editing it, he OBVIOUSLY changes the facts somewhat. That doesn't mean that he's trying to lie to the public so that Bush won't be re-elected. I mean, I'm a Texan, and I used to know Bush. He truthfully is cocky and stupid. He was an OKAY governor. Not bad, O.K. But he obviously is a bad president. Others will fastly disagree, but everyone agrees that things could've been done better. I think it's great that there is a film out. I, for one, can say that the main highway in Dallas is CONSTANTLY closed so that Bush can be escorted to the Dallas Country Club to play golf. THAT alone just isn't right. I don't like Bush, not because he's a Republican. Heck, I don't like Kerry at all either. I think Bush is one of the crappiest presidents we've had. (and that's MY opinion, nothing else. So, please don't disagree. You can't disagree with an opinion.)

Thanks for starting the topic, cause I sure had something to say. smile
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:37am

Post 38 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

I agree with your statements, JohnCarter.
*atom's eyes widen at luminescent letters on the semi-dusty LCD computer screen. atom shudders. "Has the world gone to an end?!?!?!?" *
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:51am

Post 39 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

If you’re going to bash Bush, do it right.

Bad stuff about Bush:

1. Patriot act
2. Allow illegal aliens to just cross our boarder and allow them to vote and have drivers licenses
3. His like what 50 million dollar Medicare thing
4. He has spent like over a trillion dollars during his time in office.
5. Never making a declaration of war for his war of terror

well that’s all I can think of now.


I'll write one about Kerry when I get back from vaction. I don't want to do it now because it will take to long and I have to pack.

Last edited Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:56am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:56am

Post 40 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Are you talking to me, cause I wasn't bashing Bush. This is bashing Bush: !@#$%^&*()_)(*&^%$##!!!! #$%^&^T%&&^!!!!!!!#$%^$$#^&*(!!!!!!!
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:59am

Post 41 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

kindda but not really. I just wanted to say that. I want to make a Kerry list but it I have to pack.

I'll talk to you guys later. be back in about a week.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:59am

Post 42 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

WiRyPoCkEtLiNt wrote:


2. Allow illegal aliens to just cross our boarder and allow them to vote and have drivers licenses
You can't talk unless you live near the border like I do. I swear that if I didn't know I lived in Texas, I'd think I was in Mexico the way all the shops and stores and stuff are. All in spanish. (but that's a different argument.)
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:15am

Post 43 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'm going to post this then I have to go pack.



I scaned this from a magazine
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:26am

Post 44 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I dunno if thats supposed to be funny or dramatic, but either way, illegal immigration is unimaginably horrible in my area. Dont really want to get into it, but I feel like I'm forced to learn Spanish just to get by. People actually get ANGRY if i dont know it. I hate border control.

Last edited Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:46am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:28am

Post 45 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

no dude. that's real. that's not fake. they really do that.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:32am

Post 46 of 283

Gibs

Force: 1663 | Joined: 21st May 2002 | Posts: 1611

CompositeLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

atom wrote:

He's a DEMOCRAT.
That's a bit of a stretch. I'd call him more of a socialist.

The biggest problem with "documentaries" like this and Bowling for Columbine is that people believe them. Just like most people will watch The Real Cancun and think that's what spring break is really like, people will watch Fahrenheit 9/11 and believe all of it without thinking another thought. Sure, Moore totes it as a documentary, but all it really is is a cleverly edited political statement.

I found this site a while back in another Fxhome post, I think from LtMcMurphy, where basically everything of Michael Moore is debunked.

http://bowlingfortruth.com (It's undergoing server switching sometime soon, so if it doesn't work just check back later)
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:33am

Post 47 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

atom wrote:

It's not an Anti-Bush/Bush hate film.
Yes it is. It is aimed at showing the "truth" (and I put that in quotes because I just don't know if it is or not) about the Bush administration. And it obviously isn't trying to help Bush. Therefore... Anti-Bush.

atom wrote:

It's not meant to be a documentary.
Yes it is. It involves no actors, and it is a narrative, featuring real news footage, and documentary-style filmmaking. Therefore... Documentary.


Wiry, what magazine did you get that from?
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:44am

Post 48 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

The new American this is the most consevative mag. out there.

And I agree with everything you just said except the thing about it being a documentary. It’s not. Even the movie critics say it isn't. And they should make a new classification for this film. a documentary is supposed to be just facts. Moore puts his own opinions into this movie
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:46am

Post 49 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I know, its not right
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:49am

Post 50 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Don't over analyze my comments.They were only meant to be a happy medium to evrything else.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:49am

Post 51 of 283

Gibs

Force: 1663 | Joined: 21st May 2002 | Posts: 1611

CompositeLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

People call it a documentary because Moore claims that it is, and that it's all facts. But most of it is not.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:49am

Post 52 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

man you guys are keeping me from packing....

That's a bit of a stretch. I'd call him more of a socialist.


I'd go further then that.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:51am

Post 53 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

atom wrote:

Don't over analyze my comments.They were only meant to be a happy medium to evrything else.
a "happy" medium?!?! are you saying we aren't being happy???!

nah j/k wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:53am

Post 54 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

when i said "hes a democrat." I was referring to someone taking about ME.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:53am

Post 55 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Seems like a documentary to me. Even the movie "Comedian", which was more or less just camera's following this stand up comedian around backstage and stuff, I would call a documentary. As it is DOCUMENTING something.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:55am

Post 56 of 283

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

which was more or less just camera's following this stand up comedian around backstage and stuff,.
You mean you didn't know that that's Jerry Seinfeld?
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 3:56am

Post 57 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Obviously, you didn't see it.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 5:39am

Post 58 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

Moore's so called 'critical acclaim' for his crapumenatries personally insults me as a filmmaker.

I pray to whatever Gods there may be that I never come face to face with Mr. Michael Moore. I couldn't afford the lawsuit afterwords.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:37am

Post 59 of 283

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

I dont think michael moore ever intended to get into filmaking as an art or educational medium. Im pretty sure he was frustrated that his self motivated socialist views werent being widely spread, and realized that he could make a fortune and get his crappy contradicting views out there easier with the help of ridiculous editing shrouded by humor.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 2:55pm

Post 60 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

sidewinder wrote:

Oh Pooky, you personify the uninformed liberal.
Heh, I wouldn't call myself liberal, I just don't like Bush.

Course you're probably right about the uninformed bit..... neutral
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 4:09pm

Post 61 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Michael Moore is a prick and I hate him...but he sure does know how to make a documentary.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 5:46pm

Post 62 of 283

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I thought "bowling for columbine" was simply brilliant. Both from the filmmaking level as well as from the message. Definately my favorite documentary.

As for Fahrenheit 9/11, I doubt I´ll go see it. Pretty much the whole world makes fun of bush and hates bush anyways, there´s no need for a Michael Moore anymore. Besides, Bush manages to make himself look like fool even without the help of any filmmaker.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 5:59pm

Post 63 of 283

PhLogan

Force: 490 | Joined: 1st May 2004 | Posts: 290

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Im with Sollthar. Loved Bowling for Columbine. But I plan on also seeing Farenheit 9/11. Gonna watch it more as a film rather then a documentary that is trying to get a big message out to me...I already hate Bush. Kerry isnt much better though. Wheres Nader when you need him?

On a side note: I know shit about politics except for if I like our president or not. And I dont. So dont feel like im trying to be smart at all....even though I cant find any smart comment in this post at all. Hmm.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 6:44pm

Post 64 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

I saw the movie last night, and I thought I couldn't hate Bush anymore, now I do, and I thought I knew all there was, but I didn't. This was a very powerful movie, and durring most of the film I felt almost overwhelmed. The message is important and the movie itself is compelling.

I can't wait to see the rebuttle bull sites on this movie a la "bowling for 'truth'" and I put interior quotes around "truth" because that site is a joke.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 7:35pm

Post 65 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I can't believe any of you trust this guy. He has a historic track record of lies, half truths and just plain biggotry. I will not be replying back to this thread after someone lampoons me, so save your fingers some trouble.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 7:37pm

Post 66 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

I can't believe any of you trust this guy. He has a historic track record of lies, half truths and just plain biggotry. I will not be replying back to this thread after someone lampoons me, so save your fingers some trouble.
I love you.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 7:55pm

Post 67 of 283

aenigma

Force: 480 | Joined: 5th May 2004 | Posts: 416

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

i might go see this when the crowds die down or at least rent the dvd. the thing that fascinates me is that someone who is supposedly "intelligent" would let themself be taped repeatedly looking like an idiot. somebody on his staff needs to grow a set and say mr. president when the cameras are around just smile and wave, don't open you're f*&%ing mouth.

but i guess it's more fun this way so...
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:31pm

Post 68 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

The only reason his crap is \compelling\, is because he only shows you part of the truth, and on top of that, that part of the truth is in itself out of context, and used outside of an accurate timeline.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/20/ING2976LE41.DTL

and definitely read the article that Sidewinder posted.

Michael Moore makes me sick. Guh. Seriously now, he's threatened to SUE PEOPLE who speak maliciously about his film, when in his film, he's rather malicious about his portrayal of GW Bush. just a bit of a hypocrite. unsure


oh, and I love you too, sfbmovieco. smile
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:42pm

Post 69 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Share the love. There are many non Americans in this forum, but some are American. I myself will be voting in November, and I urge anyone here in the states over 18 to get to the polls and vote for your candidate. Especially if you support Bush, do more than say you support him and go vote for him at your local voting place. Michael Moore is a puppet, and I hope he is happy in his position, just like many leftist/marxist anti-republicans before him, trying to oust a sitting president who has increased jobs, lead to the workforce in this country being the greatest it has ever been, steady economic growth, and the jobs we are getting are seeing some of the highest wages in 20 years. The democrats have to keep changing their anti bush commercials because one day their commercials say "It's a jobless recovery." The next day, their are reports of 2.4 million jobs given in this year alone. Hey, my advice to all those liberals out there. Look to your God, Bill Clinton...He actually said something true a few weeks ago...I'm gonna be paraphrasing of course....

'I don't know why everyone is up in arms, the guy is just doing what he said he was going to do in his campaign...'


p.s. - Try to graduate from Yale...And then we will see who is smarter...Some fucking idiot on a fxhome message board or the president of the most free and independent country in the entire world.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:45pm

Post 70 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

p.s. - Try to graduate from Yale...And then we will see who is smarter...Some fudging idiot on a fxhome message board or the president of the most free and independent country in the entire world.
Two thumbs up.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:48pm

Post 71 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Does this mean I can join the tag team?!?!
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:53pm

Post 72 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

You've been a member since before I came up with the idea. wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 8:59pm

Post 73 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Conservatives gotta stick together! Okay, I'm done with this thread...Before a bunch of liberals try to pidgeon hole me.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:02pm

Post 74 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

I, again, second Aculag.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:04pm

Post 75 of 283

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Try to graduate from Yale...And then we will see who is smarter...Some fudging idiot on a fxhome message board or the president of the most free and independent country in the entire world.
Heh, I usually tend to defend americans when their called simpleminded arrogant children... You´re not always making it easy though... smile
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:05pm

Post 76 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

great comments on my "side"! cool
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:17pm

Post 77 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

If you want to see bush made fun of, watch the daily show. At least they do it well and with a sense of great style; michael moore does it well too...but his is always in a "screw-you-all, i'm-always-right" way. I hope something terrible happens to him; but not too terrible so he can still make an enjoyable film (his shit aren't documentaries, they're just films. i dont consider any of his stuff a documentary).
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:20pm

Post 78 of 283

aenigma

Force: 480 | Joined: 5th May 2004 | Posts: 416

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

p.s. - Try to graduate from Yale....
thus the supposedly "intelligent". personally i could care less what he does but that won't stop me from laughing at him.

p.s. it's pretty obvious who the puppets are.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:20pm

Post 79 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Speaking of The Daily Show... Did anyone see Larry King Live last night? Jon Stewart was on. Good stuff.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:34pm

Post 80 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

aenigma wrote:

p.s. it's pretty obvious who the puppets are.
you?

wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:38pm

Post 81 of 283

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

The Daily Show is THE best show ever, OMG, John/Jon Stewart is hilarious.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:47pm

Post 82 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

Speaking of The Daily Show... Did anyone see Larry King Live last night? Jon Stewart was on. Good stuff.
AH! OFF TOPIC!

wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:48pm

Post 83 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

evman101 wrote:

AH! OFF TOPIC!

wink
AH! RETARD!

wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:49pm

Post 84 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

evman101 wrote:

AH! OFF TOPIC!

wink
AH! RETARD!

wink
AH! BACK TO THE TOPIC! QUICK! LIKE A BUNNY!

wink
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 9:52pm

Post 85 of 283

aenigma

Force: 480 | Joined: 5th May 2004 | Posts: 416

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Cypher wrote:

you? wink
ding..ding...ding we have a winner. crazy

the daily show is the only news worth watching.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 10:05pm

Post 86 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco: you are conservative. do you think Bush is conservative?

btw I couyldn't leave on my trip yet so I'll be back for alittle bit
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 10:21pm

Post 87 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

aenigma wrote:

the daily show is the only news worth watching.
exactly what I meant
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 10:32pm

Post 88 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I believe Bush is conservative, not as conservative as those in the past, but conservative none the less...And a far better choice than Kerry in ANY election.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 10:42pm

Post 89 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

yes he is FAR better then Kerry. and I will vote for him. but he's not really conservtive if you look at some of the things he has done. like the patriot act.

no right thinking conservative could make something like that. He's a good man and he has done some good stuff for the country. like the economy and stuff but he's not really conservative. he hasn't done anything to downsize the goverment, he just makes it bigger and more powerfull.

I would not call him a liberal though. he's just a not very conservative replublian. he has done what he said he would though. I would just like to see a more conservative republican candidate.
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 11:20pm

Post 90 of 283

wdy

Force: 1700 | Joined: 30th Dec 2002 | Posts: 1258

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User MacOS User

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

The movie only shows what it wants to show by the way, he cuts it together to make it seem like ONLY his view is right. As is the case with most biased documentaries.
Isn't that the point...the documentary is trying to prove something so ofcourse it would have been cut for infromation that serve its purpose. That's how most documentaries are done when trying to push a point about something.

Michael Moore is amazing at his work and I'm looking forward to taking a look at his new peice of work smile
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 11:23pm

Post 91 of 283

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

John Stewart for president!
Posted: Sat, 26th Jun 2004, 11:45pm

Post 92 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Wdy wrote:

Isn't that the point...the documentary is trying to prove something so ofcourse it would have been cut for infromation that serve its purpose. That's how most documentaries are done when trying to push a point about something.
a documentary should be more factual and objective than Moore's ever are. his are decidely one sided, and skew by half truths and lies.

and all you lot call his junk what you will, he calls them documentaries. he's the one who says they are rigorously researched to be 100% fact.

which is 100% bullsh*t.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 12:22am

Post 93 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Wiry...Even Abe Lincoln took more power, and gave it to the government during the Civil War. During extreme times, extreme measures must be taken for the betterment of the people. Now the patriot act is not the sole concoction of Bush; you have to remember, congress and the house passed it as well. I think he's a perfect conservative candidate.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 12:34am

Post 94 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

they intoduced it so fast that no one in the congress even had a chance to read it. or get a lobbiest to tell them about it. I mean they only had a few min. to think about it. and what kind of guy would you be if you voted against somrthing called the patriot act?

I don't think any of them knew what they were voting on.

and the patriot act is the concoction of the bush administration though.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 12:51am

Post 95 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

If you vote on something you know nothing about then your an idiot. Simple.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 12:59am

Post 96 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

then your saying all our congress men are idiots? in this case I would have to agree.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:15am

Post 97 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

You don't know for a fact that they voted blindly.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:34am

Post 98 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

You don't know for a fact that they voted blindly.
That's what the film leads us to believe. lol

who cares, as long as its enjoyable. i dont give a shit about moore's opinions.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:38am

Post 99 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

If you don't give a shit, then it can't be enjoyable.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:46am

Post 100 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I disagree. I enjoyed watching Bowling for Columbine and think it's very well made. But moore's anti-american campaign even in that I dont care about, nor his un-needed bashing of Charlton Heston.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:47am

Post 101 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Being well made and being truthful are two different things.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 1:54am

Post 102 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Exactly. I dont care how truthful or not his stuff is, I don't take his opinion seriously, but I do enjoy watching because its well made.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 2:43am

Post 103 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

His documentary is about as real as the documentary on Spinal Tap.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 2:49am

Post 104 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

lol

why do people believe moore?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 2:57am

Post 105 of 283

Gibs

Force: 1663 | Joined: 21st May 2002 | Posts: 1611

CompositeLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Because for some reason, if they see it in a movie, they think it's true no matter what. At least most of the time. confused
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 3:09am

Post 106 of 283

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'm going to make a movie that says everyone should make me the world leader and if they do I will make everyone rich.

hey, it could work.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 3:25am

Post 107 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

WiRyPoCkEtLiNt wrote:

I'm going to make a movie that says everyone should make me the world leader and if they do I will make everyone rich.

hey, it could work.
Sadly, it could...
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 3:30am

Post 108 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 4:33am

Post 109 of 283

PhLogan

Force: 490 | Joined: 1st May 2004 | Posts: 290

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

I just got back from Farenheit. I rather enjoyed it, quite funny and entertaining the whole way through. Truth or lies, I dont know for sure, seems like he knew what he was saying though, either way, great film.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 5:24am

Post 110 of 283

streetsk8erdc

Force: 50 | Joined: 10th Jun 2003 | Posts: 163

Member

it was a really good movie..just saw it tonite...only thing i didnt like was the amount of time the one lady who lost her son in the war got in the film...they just dragged it on wayyyy too long..it definitly looked like she started acting and tryin to get attention after a while.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:35am

Post 111 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

i actaully thought that was one of the most powerful parts of the film, at least when she read her dead son's letter to her.

I saw it again today, and I think I am going to see it again tomorrow. First time I saw a movie 3 times on opening weekend.

By the way, could someone please tell me why his documentaries or no more reliable than spinal tap? by the way I am fully aware of stuff like "bowling for 'truth'", but I can't belive that people use it as evidence.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 12:41pm

Post 112 of 283

jjuerss

Force: 1150 | Joined: 5th Jul 2003 | Posts: 332

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

I can't believe any of you trust this guy. He has a historic track record of lies, half truths and just plain biggotry.
Well, we already know this about Bush, what do you think about Moore?

(And yes, I already know what you really meant)
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 5:16pm

Post 113 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Because Waser, he makes shit up. If you read any truthful articles on the guy (Moore) you'll see that he sets up things to look a certain way in his movies, to set them up as truth, when really they are not. (Like getting the gun for signing up the bank account--a total work of fiction.)
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 5:59pm

Post 114 of 283

aenigma

Force: 480 | Joined: 5th May 2004 | Posts: 416

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Who cares if it’s a total work of fiction. Why would someone go to the movies to find truth? If I have been entertained then its money well spent. If someone goes to this movie and is swayed by it to cast their vote differently then they are weak.

It’s Moore’s movie, it’s his point of view. Just like everyone’s posts are their points of view. We air our opinions and that’s about it. Nobody’s mind will be changed. The Moore haters won’t all of a sudden love him and Moore lovers aren't going to start plotting his demise.

Someone should really get those two guys on the same bill because who wouldn’t vote for “Moore Bush” wink
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 6:13pm

Post 115 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

"This is Spinal Tap" rules. My favorite rockumentary, no doubt.

"This one goes to eleven."
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 6:24pm

Post 116 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

I care...I care because he is winning awards because it is a documentary. If it is a total work of fiction, entertaining or not, it's not a documentary and therefore should be stripped of all his honors and awards. If he wants to make a fiction and try to get awards, thats fine. But he tries to pass off his lies as the truth and we shouldn't tolerate that. I mean this is a guy who is a HUGE racist. He wrote a book called Stupid White Men, and has repeatedly said that Americans are the dumbest people in the whole world. How could anyone care for this biggot?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 6:43pm

Post 117 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

ive read many articles about how the gun and the bank scene was staged, but it never grasped me how it actually was. could someone please explain to me how it was staged.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 6:55pm

Post 118 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 7:48pm

Post 119 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

I have read that article (and the entire site actually) and it does nothing for me. It seems that the article makes the following three main points:

1. It took a long time to get the gun.
2. You can't get the gun at the bank (or at leas that the vault is 4 hours away)
3. That moore is implying that the bank people are crazy and that someone could rob the bank with the gun.

In response to "bowling for 'truth'"'s and many other attacks against his film moore posted more information beyone the movie on his site.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

after reading the article you would know:

1."bowling for 'truth'" says the they were filming for 90 minutes (approx) and that the film made it look like a "wham-bam thing". Though this is just opinion, 90 minutes is pretty wham bam to me. ( This isnt from moore's response)
2. He did infact get his gun inside the bank. You can watch this footage not used in bowling for columbine here: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/movie.php?mov=bank-full ( if that link doesnt work you can see it in his response.) In the video you see a man walk up to moore, inside the bank, and hand him his gun in a box.
3. This is just speculation. Never does moore say that the people are crazy or that someone would just rob the bank. This is purely objective and to take it as fact is absurd.

In response to moore's response, Richard Bushnell wrote this article : http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/wackoattacko.htm

Bushnell writes "[moore] doesn't respond to anything on bowlingfortruth.com!" . I was originally going to say that this was crap, but i realized that on concerning the bank, Bushnell right. Moore didn't respond, but I didn't see anything to respond to. "bowling for 'truth'" doesn't seem to make any points at all and really does nothing for me. Please show me how "bowing for 'truth'" discredits the bank scene.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 8:11pm

Post 120 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Your obviously not looking objectively, because if you did, you would of seen more than your small list of three things you found. How about doing more than skimming and licking the balls of Moore. I mean Jesus Christ man, why do you like this guy? He called you a freakin idiot! And if your white, he said he is scared of you.

Your really not making any sense because you obviously didn't read it in its entirety or else you would know why Moore is full of horse shit. So...



You wouldn't defend a biggot, and if a republican defended biggots like the KKK they would surely hear it from the liberals...Hmmm, nice to know how truly hypocritical liberals are.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:04pm

Post 121 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser


I mean this is a guy who is a HUGE racist. He wrote a book called Stupid White Men, and has repeatedly said that Americans are the dumbest people in the whole world. How could anyone care for this biggot?
Way to be a pedant. I do hope your arguement is based on more than picking holes in the title. People care for the biggot, because to many many nations - mine included - americans are renown for their stupidity, so in this respect, its funny coz its true (at least in our minds).
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:05pm

Post 122 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Go ahead and call yourself stupid. I have too much self respect to do that. Go ahead and flame me, no more on this topic.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:09pm

Post 123 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Heh, you can't back out with a "i know you are"-style playground retort - Thats not a discussion!

The 'stupid white men' he refers to are those in seats of power. I have no power, and unless i'm mistaken you have no power either (or none of the type moore aludes to). To take offense at this blatant poke at the *government* belies a deeper seated dislike for moore. Why not tell us what it is, since your "he called me stupid" defense is rather transparent.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:16pm

Post 124 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

What is meant is different from what is said.... (in regards to the title)
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:30pm

Post 125 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

okay Xcession, if I'm reading your interpretation of the title correctly, he's referring to government officials as stupid white men; yes?

by correlation that would mean that Moore immediately thinks that
(A) there are ONLY Caucasian males in office in the USA, or
(B) by default any non Caucasian males in office are clearly superior

making him a racist anyway. and a moron.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:31pm

Post 126 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

Edit: This is in response to sfbmovieco's respons to my post

You didn't really respond to my post other than saying "Oh man you are a stupid liberal you don't know what you are talking about." Also, I'm trying to keep this from getting as foamy as possible, so please restrain yourself. Want me to go throught the entire article?

[im skipping the first six paragraphs because they are just describing the scene]

The first paragraph talks about what Jan Jacobson (the girl teller who you see through most of the scene) and how she thought that micheal moore portrayed her as some back water hick throwing guns at people. Honestly, I didn't think that the people at the bank looked stupid durring anytime I have watched the film, and since michael moore never says this it is speculation that that is what were his intentions. The first paragraph also goes on to say how they were filming for about 90 minutes, and how in there opinion that isn't "wham bam" (but I think it is). More opinion coming from "bowling for 'truth'" that people call facts.

The second paragraph talks about how no guns are kept at the bank, even though you can watch a bank employee hand him his gun inside the bank with a link that i provided earlier.

The third paragraph says that the gun doesn't give the guns at the bank, but you can see that they do with the link I provided earlier.

The fourth paragraph says that moore walked out of the bank with his gun two months after filling out papers. Michael moore claims that the only contact he had with them prior to shooting was calling ahead to make sure that they could film. Why would the bank let him sign the papers just for show if they knew he was going to walk out of the bank just moments later? Since NEITHER have a source or proof, you cannot take either as fact, you basically have to choose who to trust.

The fifth paragraph talks about how the program has been a sucess. This paragrah really does nothing to add to the argument.

The sixth and seventh paragraphs and the list the follows "show" that moore wanted us to belive that it is just that easy to go get a gun. We see him filling out his paper work, but "bowling for 'truth'" chews moore out for not showing him producing phot ID, giving them 1000 dollars, and spending a half hour at the bank. When you watch this film, you dont think that michael moore just walks in and gets a gun. He shows the teller saying you have to go through all the normal procedures, just he didn't include them in his film. Micheal moore always states that he is a filmmaker first, and wants to make his films entertaining (this doesnt mean he lies) but that would just be unnesessary to show, as it would really change nothing about the film, only making it longer.

The eight paragraph talks about how a robber would never rob the bank with the gun he just got. Never never never never never never does more claim that someone would do this. This is just more speculation. He only suggests it is dangerous handing guns out of a bank, I mean, some person could technically come in with ammo and load the gun there and shoot someone. But that is just as much speculation as bushnell's claims, so don't take them as facts either.

The ninth and one sentance tenth paragraph basically just show how these "lies" setup the whole rest of the "lies", and if I had allot more time, I would analyze (sic?) paragraph by paragraph of Bushnell's work. Maybe I'll get around to it one day.

The eleventh paragraph, and first of the YOU MISSED THE POINT section, talks about how he "can't read moore's mind" so he can't say what he intended with the scene, but Bushnell seems to have no problem doing that earlier when he claims that moore says someone would rob the bank. This paragraph illustrates how most of bushnell's "facts" or speculation.

The twelfth paragraph basically just throws in "remember, moore is a liar" so let me use the space to throw in "Bushnell uses speculation as fact"

The thirteenth paragraph calls moore a hypocrite (sic?) for claiming that guns do not cause gun deaths but shows this scene of the USA's gun culture, even though it really isn't. The fact a bank is giving out guns with an account shows that america is obsessed with guns, but he never links this obsession with gun murders.

The fourteenth paragraph says that no matter what your view is, michael moore screwed you, as the audience, over. Uh-oh, I guess michal moore is bad no matter how you look at him. [/sarcasm]. Bushnell also says in this paragraph that he didn't feel that this scene was an attack on gun owners, but the power of suggestion, bushnell's favorite ammunition, would leave you to belive that he must have been threatened by this scene. But since I am not bushnell I have no idea what all of his other intentions were in the rest of his article, and further more, since I am not him, I will not use his bull style of presenting "facts".

The fifteenth paragraph tells of something michael moore said on the Oprah show (and this is basically the only fact in the article with a source) where moore asks "What ever happened to giving out toasters, you know? I'd never heard of anyone getting killed by a toaster, you know?"

The sixteenth paragraph links to http://www.gunowners.org/ and shows the reader an article by Larry Pratt where he describes some freak toaster accidents.

The seventeenth paragraph goes on to say that maybe michael moore should make a documentary about tougher toaster laws (even though bowling for columbine isnt really about tougher gun laws). You have to remember that guns are designed to kill, toaster are designed to toast. Even if there are accidental shootings, the gun is still carrying out its design. If Larry Pratt talked about accidental toastings, he would make somewhat more sense. I should go find some articles about people using guns to make their bread crispy to prove that we need more lax gun laws.

The eighteenth paragraph expands on the whole "why not ban toasters?" idea. Hmm, that kind of sounds like "why not blame bowling?" THis whole toaster Idea seems to be something that moore would include in the movie along with people blaming video games, movies, music.

The last paragraph reads "Michael Moore makes less and less sense under the revelation of key facts to his arguments-and this is only six minutes into the movie!" Well after reading this I felt compelled to watch the first six minutes of bowling for columbine to see if bushnell had all his facts strait. Well, guess what? HE DOESN'T! THE FIRST SCENE ENDS AT ABOUT 3 AND A HALF MINUTES INTO THE MOVIE!!! HOLY HELL HE IS A LIAR!!! ALL OF HIS SITE IS TRASHY LIES!!! BUSHNELL IS FAT! The last few lines were very sarcastic (even though that scene does end 3.5 minutes after hitting Play Movie on the DVD). I am just pointing out what kind of tactics Bushnell is using to discredit moore, and when you do use these tactics, it is easy to portray them as facts to a group of people who fear that their values are being challenged.

Oh, and just in case I actually made no point at all with my post:


I know this is actually off topic becuase this is about farenheit 911, but I am just defending moore's credibility
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:46pm

Post 127 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser


by correlation that would mean that Moore immediately thinks that
(A) there are ONLY Caucasian males in office in the USA, or
(B) by default any non Caucasian males in office are clearly superior
Nice conclusion jumping. That isn't what i implied in any way. Nor, i dare say, what moore implies either. Read the book. Read it. Read it.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 9:59pm

Post 128 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Waser wrote:

but I am just defending moore's credibility
What credibility? He's a talented film-maker and a bullshit lobbyist, can't we just leave it at that? This is, after all, a filmmaking website is it not?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:00pm

Post 129 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Amen
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:13pm

Post 130 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

I disagree becuase I don't think he is a liar in respect to his movies and books.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:18pm

Post 131 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Waser wrote:

I disagree becuase I don't think he is a liar in respect to his movies and books.
Do you think that politicians lie to get people to see their point?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:18pm

Post 132 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Some do. I'm not saying it's impossible that moore is lying. He could be, but the "evidence" that shows he is a liar in respect to his movies and book, to me, is weak, and proves nothing
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:19pm

Post 133 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Well, I for one haven't ever seen his movies, or read his books. I just know what people tell me. So I should probably just silence myself until I see the movie in question. wink
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:22pm

Post 134 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

f*ck. I just lost a long reply to Waser and Xcession, because I hit the 'Back' button on my mouse, and when I clicked forward again, it was gone.

damnation.

screw it, I don't feel like typing it all again. suffice to say that speculation is used in abounding quantities on both sides to try and discredit each other.

in closing I am, however, curious about something.

Xcession wrote:

because to many many nations - mine included - americans are renown for their stupidity
Do you find me stupid? Do I strike you as an uneducated Yank?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:24pm

Post 135 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

No, why would I?

Its not always about you. Get over yourself. Its a stereotype.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:25pm

Post 136 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Ice_Man wrote:


suffice to say that speculation is used in abounding quantities on both sides to try and discredit each other.

That I can agree with, and I hope I made that somewhat clear in my post.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:28pm

Post 137 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

Why would you? because I'm an American.

Not about me as an individual no, about me as a member of the American people.

but I'm an American! Americans are stupid, yes? why shouldn't this stereotype apply to me?

Last edited Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:29pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:28pm

Post 138 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

Waser - you did. that had been part of my huge reply that was lost.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:30pm

Post 139 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

good, oh and by the way, I just have to say that even though we are polarized argument-wise in the conversation you aren't foamy and I appreciate that.

End foam now people
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:31pm

Post 140 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Stereotype. n A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.

Its oversimplified, thats why. Stereotypes don't apply to everyone. Thats their nature. Take some pride in your intellect and don't doubt yourself so much.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:35pm

Post 141 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I am sorry if I began to become foamy, it is just in my nature. I'm very adament about my views and I would and expect the same from all of you. I respect this country but more importantly, it's history. So thanks to everyone for participating in this banter with me. Whether it goes on or not is your guys' choice, but thanks all the same. It made the past two days somewhat interesting for me.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:39pm

Post 142 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

woop. you caught me. I was so wrapped up in the ridiculous stereotype you held of \my people\ that I was forgetting what I'm really all about!
. . . . end sarcasm . . . .



how does that saying go? sarcasm is the recourse of a. . . . weak mind?
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:40pm

Post 143 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Ice_Man wrote:



how does that saying go? sarcasm is the recourse of a. . . . weak mind?
I hope that isn't true because I am the most sarcastic bastard I have ever met
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:40pm

Post 144 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

...and the highest form of whit.

Yes i know that saying too,
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:41pm

Post 145 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Waser wrote:

I hope that isn't true because I am the most sarcastic bastard I have ever met
But I'M the most sarcastic bastard you've ever conversed with.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:42pm

Post 146 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Yeah, you're sooooo sarcastic!





razz
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:42pm

Post 147 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

damn aculag, you are always one step ahead of me! That's not sarcasm, Im serious!
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 10:44pm

Post 148 of 283

Ice_Man

Force: 1390 | Joined: 26th Nov 2002 | Posts: 1208

Windows User

Gold Member

I was just being silly about that stereotype garbage. It was all in jest


seriously though, from what I have heard and seen about Moore's views on gun control, politics, and his spin tactics involved with his so-called documentaries, I have little respect for the man. that's my two cents. but then again, my two cents are just speculation anyway.
Posted: Sun, 27th Jun 2004, 11:13pm

Post 149 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I say we blame the French. No particular reason, really. More of a, why the hell not?


...(in Michael Caine voice)..."or the Dutch."
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 2:09am

Post 150 of 283

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Cypher wrote:

I say we blame the French. No particular reason, really. More of a, why the hell not?


...(in Michael Caine voice)..."or the Dutch."
I blame the French for a lot too....

Pretty much second nature to me. smile
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 2:10am

Post 151 of 283

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Can we blame Michael Moore on the French?
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 2:13am

Post 152 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I don't know why, but I've always assumed he was Canadian. I'm pretty sure that's not right though.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 2:48am

Post 153 of 283

PhLogan

Force: 490 | Joined: 1st May 2004 | Posts: 290

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

"Q: My wife is convinced you're Canadian. I say you're American. Which is it?
A: People often think I'm Canadian, probably because of Canadian Bacon. Lots of people also seem to think my name is Roger Moore. Well, I'm not Canadian, and, sadly, I'm not James Bond either. I'm just an all-American Michigan kid, and proud of it. Sure, Canada has a lot to teach us--universal health care, lower crime, funny accents--and Canadians are great to work with, but the nearly deceased Bald Eagle on the American quarter is always going to be cooler than the beaver on the Canadian nickel. "


And no that wasnt a "hey look at how easy it was to look up the information on your own you lazy bastard" post. Just read that earlier today and it answers your question.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 3:19am

Post 154 of 283

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Yeah, I looked it up too. I had no idea he directed Canadian Bacon until earlier. I think I saw that a long time ago.

At least I'm not the only one who thought he was Canadian.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 12:20pm

Post 155 of 283

Brettsta

Force: 3385 | Joined: 15th Nov 2003 | Posts: 2114

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I saw this last night. It was great, well made, comedic, and kinda scary. Ill be very surprised if Bush is re-elected after this.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 2:21pm

Post 156 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Ice_Man wrote:

a documentary should be more factual and objective than Moore's ever are. his are decidely one sided, and skew by half truths and lies.
A documentary by it's very nature, can only be a partial reflection of reality or "the truth". And in fact, especially when they just follow a person, I wonder how accurate this representation really is because people WILL modify their behavior somewhat because cameras are present, which begs the question: is it really true then?

Any of you remember those animal documentaries on Discovery Channel? With perfectly framed shots of wild animals at ALL times? Some of those "documentary" makers got under fire a few years back for "staging" the situations depicting the animals... Why did they stage it? Because it is impossible to be there ALL the time when this shit happens...

Also, a documentary, by the very fact it is made by a filmmaker - and by the fact that it needs to be edited in order to be watchable - WILL be tainted and not objective, no matter how hard the documentarian tries to be objective about it... It is impossible to not ahve an opinion and therefore that opinion will be reflected on the footage somewhat. Your opinion will guide the questions during the interview and your opinion, conscious or not, WILL make the documentary what it is... Give the same footage to 50 people, you will have 50 distinct documentaries...

While I think that Moore plays very elastic with the truth, he still has a fairly narrow margin of error to play within: he can't outright lie because he'd be sued to kingdom come! We are talking about a country where people are allowed to sue a company for millions because they neglected to write "Caution: Content may be hot and cause scaldings" on a piping hot cup of coffee... Or better yet, as somebody pointed out to me: In the "documentary" "The Corporation" in which it they refer to a certain law case in which two reporters were suing Fox for attempting to make them tell a false news story was overturned when the jury came to the conclusion that news didn't need to be based upon facts!!!!

Based on that, and the national American lawsuits average, if Moore was constantly lying as his critics made him out to be, he should be so busy with libel lawsuits he shouldn't have the time to make movies...

Again, that being said, it doesn't preclude him from being elastic with the truth - juxtaposing some images in a certain order to give a certain idea is not a crime - and as long as you do not go and say clearly what you are hinting at, you cannot really get sued... It is merely a suggestion and therefore becomes a matter of interpretation... There lies the true talent of Michael Moore. Suggesting without flat out telling... Leaving his critics to speculate on his intentions and on his message a lot of the time.

But in most cases, the camera is pointed at the people saying the things... I mean Moore didn't stage Bush saying stupidities - he said them himself... Is the order in which the stupidities been said chronological, probably not - or not all... And even if it was, would it really change the message all that much? Maybe.

That being said, I don't see why Moore's stuff can't be called a documentary - he does after all, document things, people and events... Is it tainted by his opinions? Sure as hell! Is it the total, absolute truth? Hell no! But then again, no documentaries ever made can claim that either...

I call his stuff docutainment. He presents some facts and opinions in an entertaining fashion. He leaves the viewer to make his own decision in the end - but he presents his views. And you should make with it what you want.

I don't know the man, don't owe him anything, I do think some of his fame went to his head a bit (curious to see that Michael Moore hates America where he is served the same methods he uses against his "victims" - the trailer is already promising some Moore style contradictions within the man himself - and as much as we like heroes and wish or like to think they are near perfect, I have yet to meet anybody who is, let alone any person who doesn't contradict him/herself at one point or the other), but he sure does know how to put some people's panties in a bunch and that alone is funny...
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:16pm

Post 157 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

Wow... just got back from seeing this... Definately a well done documentary. I'll be shocked if Bush wins again... I doubt he will after this flick...
can u say partisan politics?.....spoon fed propaganda?
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:19pm

Post 158 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

pooky wrote:

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
POOKY!!!!! Compelling EVIDENCE!!!???? its what they call the power of filmmaking...its ONE MANS opinion. I give him respect for his opinion, but no respect for using it to help out Kerry. Instead of Bush bashing, why didnt he make a film of this is why you should choose Kerry, cuz he has no good reasons!!!!!!!!!!! The last time i checked, discrediting someone else to make yourself look better was a childs tactic.....woops, i just bashed 80% of politicians
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:21pm

Post 159 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Brettsta wrote:

I saw this last night. It was great, well made, comedic, and kinda scary. Ill be very surprised if Bush is re-elected after this.
No, it won't make much difference. He is preaching to the choir. Hes making bush haters into bigger bush haters. People who will vote for Bush won't see it (most of them), and even if it does, i doubt it would weigh too heavily on their minds.

His main targer audience seems to be those who would never vote for Bush anyway. And the people who like Bush will most likely not see it because they don't want to support Moore. This may seem like it will change the election to those who agree with Moore, but I think that it will barely change voters opinions...
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:22pm

Post 160 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

gent23mj wrote:

woops, i just bashed 80% of politicians
I think its more than 80%... wink
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:28pm

Post 161 of 283

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

gent23mj wrote:

pooky wrote:

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
POOKY!!!!! Compelling EVIDENCE!!!???? its what they call the power of filmmaking...its ONE MANS opinion. I give him respect for his opinion, but no respect for using it to help out Kerry. Instead of Bush bashing, why didnt he make a film of this is why you should choose Kerry, cuz he has no good reasons!!!!!!!!!!! The last time i checked, discrediting someone else to make yourself look better was a childs tactic.....woops, i just bashed 80% of politicians
I don't think he was bashing Bush to promote Kerry. He just ended up promoting Kerry by bashing Bush.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:32pm

Post 162 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

pooky wrote:

gent23mj wrote:

pooky wrote:

You don't want to go see a movie because it has compelling evidence against Bush?
POOKY!!!!! Compelling EVIDENCE!!!???? its what they call the power of filmmaking...its ONE MANS opinion. I give him respect for his opinion, but no respect for using it to help out Kerry. Instead of Bush bashing, why didnt he make a film of this is why you should choose Kerry, cuz he has no good reasons!!!!!!!!!!! The last time i checked, discrediting someone else to make yourself look better was a childs tactic.....woops, i just bashed 80% of politicians
I don't think he was bashing Bush to promote Kerry. He just ended up promoting Kerry by bashing Bush.
OK....**deep breath**....ill accept that smile
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:40pm

Post 163 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Darn you kids for postin 11 pages before i can to anything lol...by then my post is irrelevant to the current idea being talked about.

I will say this though. Anyone who believes what F9/11 says is just like some one who believes what the News Media says. Thats just as stupid. THATS PRPAGANDA.... "Hey guys, come and see what this 'humble' American film maker has to say as he uncovers the truth about this monster of a president"

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

**wants to pull his own hair out**

Ok, I am acting like a woman...whew...basically my point is that you have got to be an idot to believe that Moore is telling you the entire story, just like any news network.

"The individual is smart, but people are dumb."
-Tommy Lee Jones (MIB)
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:50pm

Post 164 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Wow, this movie ranked in at number 223 in all time box office weekend just under Legally Blonde 2: Red, White and Blonde. Good job Moore.
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 10:54pm

Post 165 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

Wow, this movie ranked in at number 223 in all time box office weekend just under Legally Blonde 2: Red, White and Blonde. Good job Moore.
Isn't that every filmmaker's dream? To be up next to the greats?
Posted: Mon, 28th Jun 2004, 11:03pm

Post 166 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Hahahaha!
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 12:11am

Post 167 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

evman101 wrote:



Isn't that every filmmaker's dream? To be up next to the greats?
Or be considered on of the greats smile thats right, i love him
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 12:15am

Post 168 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Waser wrote:



Or be considered on of the greats smile thats right, i love him
*shudders*
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 12:22am

Post 169 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

As big as he is, I'm sure he could give a lot of love right back at you. Are you white? Nevermind! He's afraid of you!
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 12:31am

Post 170 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

A few quotes from Moore to show you how much of a dolt he is:

"I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a 'deserter.' What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants" --Michael Moore

"White people scare the crap out of me. … I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord … never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person bury my movie, and I've never heard a black person say, 'We're going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here - have a nice day!'" --Michael Moore, writing in "Stupid White Men"

(The last quote shows how truly out of touch he is.)


Now here is a cute picture to make up for the fact blah blah blah. Some of you guys really gotta grow up.

Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 12:34am

Post 171 of 283

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:


HAHAHA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! great! I love it.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 3:02am

Post 172 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Those last few posts are great!!!!!


And the quotes by Michael Moore have...."i want to encourage blacks to continue voting democrat" written all over it

Does he think blacks are stupid.....i think that one made HIM look stupid
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 4:45am

Post 173 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Erm...

Slavery still exists in Brazil...

Communism is still in existence in China, North Korea, and Cuba...

Nazis are making a comeback...

Fascism is still all over the globe (too many countries to list here) and a surprising amount is financially backed (and armed) by the good old U.S. of A...

Just thought I'd point that out...

Some of you guys really gotta grow up. tard
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:17am

Post 174 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

i would like to think that being a kid is what keeps us humble... wink also, blah, its a thread we are having a bit of fun with....i take it you like Moore?
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:27am

Post 175 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

oh and johncarter, the point wasnt to say that it has TOTALLY ended all those things, but to make a poitn to anti-war fanatics, who have no clue why they are against war
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:50am

Post 176 of 283

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

When war must happen, I'm all for it, but under my ideals, war is very rarely justified, and only a few wars had to have happened
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 1:35pm

Post 177 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

gent23mj wrote:

i would like to think that being a kid is what keeps us humble... wink also, blah, its a thread we are having a bit of fun with....i take it you like Moore?
If you had read my previous posts, you'd see I am not particularly a fan of Moore but I don't hate him either. He is just a guy voicing his opinion. He did specify, by the way, in an interview, that F 9/11 was an op-ed piece, the equivalent of a newspaper editorial...

I just find that there is people here just as extreme as he is in their own particular views...

And in my book that doesn't make them any better than the man they denounce so adamantly...

I think it's funny that when right leaning people voice their often extreme and controlling views, they expect everybody to swallow it without a fight (and are shocked and outraged when it's not happening), yet if an extreme left leaning person offers his views as well, then it's the death threats festival and the name calling and mud-slinging...

Michael Moore may not be perfect but he still has a right to his opinion and to the expression of it. Same goes for Michael Wilson, who is doing an "antiMoore" documentary along the same lines of Moore's documentary style - attacking the man with the same weapons Michael Moore used on others... And trying to make sense of it all as well. I think that is more constructive criticism of the man and his ideas than all the nonsense I read on this thread.

This is what I am really a fan of: Freedom of Speech... It would just be nice if people where allowed to express themselves without being called all kinds of names just because their opinions differ from another.

As for this statement of yours: the point wasnt to say that it has TOTALLY ended all those things, but to make a poitn to anti-war fanatics, who have no clue why they are against war

I understand the idea but the picture clearly sates: If not for ENDING blah, blah,blah...

The way the sentence is grammatically constructed, it means that yeah, those things don't exist anymore...

And as far as the current war being a way of ending terrorism, why has terrorism risen to an all time high since the very beginning of that war?

I really fail to see the logic in this: we will carpet bomb a couple of poor but resources rich countries and therefore get rid of micro cells of fanatics spreaded out ALL over the globe, including our own country and allies countries (especially those). This should make things easier since we have no idea who they are or where (Osama anyone?) since we haven't managed to infiltrate them in years, our intelligence (and the rest of the world's) is totally deficient in that respect, we do not understand them and have no clue about their plans or ideas... But boy does it feel good to trash a couple of countries...

Meanwhile terrorists blow up trains in Spain, night clubs in Indonesia, steal nuclear waste in the US, and so on and so forth... Osama and the heads of Al Quaeda are still on the run and the US actions have angered more than half the muslim world and Al Qaeda recruits are flowing in the thousands...

Brilliant plan Georges! History will hail you as a freakin' genius!

I would like to note that I haven't seen F-9/11... I forged this opinion all on my own by reading/listening to the news from various sources and by exercising my own critical sense and not blindly believe every single so-called "official" statements... They've been proven wrong often enough...

Last edited Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 2:41pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 1:42pm

Post 178 of 283

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

"White people scare the crap out of me. … I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord … never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person bury my movie, and I've never heard a black person say, 'We're going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here - have a nice day!'" --Michael Moore, writing in "Stupid White Men"

(The last quote shows how truly out of touch he is.)
Erm. I think you somewhat missed his point there.

gent23mj wrote:

oh and johncarter, the point wasnt to say that it has TOTALLY ended all those things, but to make a poitn to anti-war fanatics, who have no clue why they are against war
Hang on, surely everyone is anti-war? Or are you pro-war?

Any sane, intelligent person should be anti-war. That's not to say that was isn't sometimes necessary, though.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 1:45pm

Post 179 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser


"I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a 'deserter.' What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants" --Michael Moore
Heheheh, that doesn't show him to be a dolt, that just shows him to have an immature sense of humour. As a fellow child in this respect, this quote just amuses me razz

On a more objective note re: "functional illiterate" however, it did amuse me to see GWB struggling to pronounce "Abu Ghraib" in one of his speeches shortly after those photos were released.

It takes a startling level of moronic tactlessness, to deliver a speech in such a way that it sounds like you're pronouncing a name of such political importance for the first time ever, when it should have been on the forefront of his conscience for weeks razz
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 2:22pm

Post 180 of 283

Mellifluous

Force: 5604 | Joined: 6th Oct 2002 | Posts: 3782

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Just read through the last 12 pages of this crazy Obviously, people have preconceived notions about Michael Moore & nothing will ever change that.

Some take everything he says as gospel. I disagree with that. Some feel extremely threatened by him & think he's the devil incarnate. I disagree with that.

I disagree with Moore in having a single agenda in wanting to depose Bush, & favouring Democrats. What I agree with is what he's said about guns being too accessible in America, the Florida election & some of what he's said about the Iraq war.

The people who hate Moore seem to be Republicans who dislike what he says about the government. The government happens to be Republican. Does this make ALL of what he says invalid? IMO, Moore does make some valid social comment which, though not as unbiased as I would like, does hold true if you take the time to research what he says. I've read some of his books including Stupid White Men & found that much of what he was saying was verifiable.

But I suppose many people will ignore what Moore says simply because they see him as attacking their party & so themselves. I disagree with that, but Moore has set himself up for that by the agenda he takes.

Kind of like an alien religion back in the old days...only yours holds true & ignoring the alien one is the way to go whatever ounce of divine truth it holds. Again, this is something I disagree with Moore about. He's become a critic of the Republicans, but then said "Oh, by the way I'm a Democrat"... I would have more respect for him if he was just a social critic with no political affiliations (I'll just have to take that role, then), & people from other parties would probably take more notice of the truthful things he says.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 2:41pm

Post 181 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

I think to a certain extent its just national pride too, for which americans are infamous.

It always strikes me that pretty much every other country loves to have a jab at the USA, whenever the opportunity arises. I'd suspect this is mainly out of intimidation: America is collosal, imposing and scary to most outsiders and however we analyse it, life always does seem that little bit better in America, despite the fact that it isn't. All in all, the USA seems an easily enviable place (perhaps for misinformed reasons, but thats not the point).

As a result, everyone has a go at america and americans - so in retaliation, americans put up their defenses. Their responses are off the cuff and more about saying something rather than about its content. Involuntarily the reply is over-patriotic, nonsensical and full of the same tired old phrases and pseudo-justifications.

This is a bit of crackpot theory to have, i suppose, but i can't remember the last time (or even the first time) when anyone had a real go at England (where i am).
Without constant abuse, i guess i just don't really give much of a sh1t about what people say, but i dare say i *would* if i suffered as much abuse as American's do. "Sticks and stones..." etc. They may not hurt you in small quantities, but if you throw an infinite supply of sticks and stones...it'll bloody well hurt after a while!

Perhaps its not just america which gets picked on so much, but it certainly feels like everyone jumps on an opportunity to have a go.

In these circumstances, i think its understandible to find Americans stabbing out a quick retort without much forethought or analysis and being caught out looking stupid/uninformed/naive - which doesn't help fix their "dumb" stereotype.



[edit] interestingly, having scanned through a bunch of recent heated discussions, such as this one, theres a notably high percentage of Americans writing foamy posts, then apologising later. Perhaps theres some psychological truth to my theory!
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:44pm

Post 182 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

sfbmovieco wrote:

"White people scare the crap out of me. … I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord … never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person bury my movie, and I've never heard a black person say, 'We're going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here - have a nice day!'" --Michael Moore, writing in "Stupid White Men"

(The last quote shows how truly out of touch he is.)
Erm. I think you somewhat missed his point there.

gent23mj wrote:

oh and johncarter, the point wasnt to say that it has TOTALLY ended all those things, but to make a poitn to anti-war fanatics, who have no clue why they are against war
Hang on, surely everyone is anti-war? Or are you pro-war?

Any sane, intelligent person should be anti-war. That's not to say that was isn't sometimes necessary, though.
Yes Tarn, of course I am anti-war, but I am pro-life....and when that means removing a mad dictatore i am all for it. The jokes about the anti war signs were referring to the people that are fanatics just to be fanatics, the crowds that Jesse Jackson appeals to smile
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:46pm

Post 183 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Thanks for helping me be more clear Tarn.... I do not want to appear as a war junkie smile
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:53pm

Post 184 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Xcession wrote:

I think to a certain extent its just national pride too, for which americans are infamous.

It always strikes me that pretty much every other country loves to have a jab at the USA, whenever the opportunity arises. I'd suspect this is mainly out of intimidation: America is collosal, imposing and scary to most outsiders and however we analyse it, life always does seem that little bit better in America, despite the fact that it isn't. All in all, the USA seems an easily enviable place (perhaps for misinformed reasons, but thats not the point).

As a result, everyone has a go at america and americans - so in retaliation, americans put up their defenses. Their responses are off the cuff and more about saying something rather than about its content. Involuntarily the reply is over-patriotic, nonsensical and full of the same tired old phrases and pseudo-justifications.

This is a bit of crackpot theory to have, i suppose, but i can't remember the last time (or even the first time) when anyone had a real go at England (where i am).
Without constant abuse, i guess i just don't really give much of a sh1t about what people say, but i dare say i *would* if i suffered as much abuse as American's do. "Sticks and stones..." etc. They may not hurt you in small quantities, but if you throw an infinite supply of sticks and stones...it'll bloody well hurt after a while!

Perhaps its not just america which gets picked on so much, but it certainly feels like everyone jumps on an opportunity to have a go.

In these circumstances, i think its understandible to find Americans stabbing out a quick retort without much forethought or analysis and being caught out looking stupid/uninformed/naive - which doesn't help fix their "dumb" stereotype.



[edit] interestingly, having scanned through a bunch of recent heated discussions, such as this one, theres a notably high percentage of Americans writing foamy posts, then apologising later. Perhaps theres some psychological truth to my theory!
Clever, Now i feel so childish....if you ever want to hurl an insult, thats the way to do it. Very elegant. But i would say what you described is childishness, and that is a characteristic of a human being not a country, which i would say applies to any person in the world.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:56pm

Post 185 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

xcession, I have an English soccer coach, and you sound just like him wink He gets put out with us 'wankers' and our ways every now and again.

I blame the media, ITS THE MEDIAS FAULT YOUR HONOR! THEY MANIPULATED AND INFLUENCED US!!! hehehehe so JK!!!
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 6:56pm

Post 186 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Thats my point - it's only human. But more importantly with so many people seemingly against *America* and its people, more so than any other country, its more likely - statistically - that americans are going to behave in this way. It wasn't a deliberate attack of any sort...merely an observation of statistics i guess.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 7:45pm

Post 187 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

9/11 happened 3 years ago and Michael Moore decided to release this movie three years late, in an election year, with dvd sales to begin around october/november I would guess? And it's merely an op ed piece? You are all being SHAT on by this guy.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 7:46pm

Post 188 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

If its entertaining, i'll happily pay £4.50 to get shat on in a cinema, with popcorn and a hotdog.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 8:17pm

Post 189 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

One more reason to vote Kerry! Hahahaha.

You would think he would follow Dole's example and resign, but since he knows he will lose in November he still wants a job next year

And in 2000 Bush Bush forfeited his pay as governor for days he was campaigning and had a Lt. Governor in his place when he was not in Austin.

The Republican lieutenant governor of Massachusetts asked John Kerry on Tuesday to resign from the Senate, saying that Kerry has failed to fulfill his basic congressional obligations during his Democratic presidential campaign.

Lt. Gov. Kerry Healey pointed particularly to Kerry's poor attendance record in at the Capitol this year, which she said has left the state "under-represented in one of the highest lawmaking bodies in the land."

"That is not fair, it's not right and the public is not being well served," she said.

Through Tuesday evening, Kerry had missed 103 of the 117 roll call votes conducted in the Senate this year -- or 88 percent, by far the most of any senator. He last cast a vote in the Senate on March 25. Last year, he missed 64 percent of the roll calls. In none of his previous 18 years as a senator did he miss more than 5 percent of the votes.

The average senatorial participation score last year was 96.1 percent.

Kerry's Senate office referred questions about his attendance record to the campaign staff, which brushed off Healey's comments and said Kerry would not step down. "The best thing we can do for the people of Massachusetts is get a new president, and we're doing that," said Allison Dobson, a Kerry campaign spokeswoman.

The state's other senator, Democrat Edward M. Kennedy, said his colleague "is doing an outstanding job of representing the people of Massachusetts now," despite his minimal presence at the Capitol.

A spokesman said that Mitt Romney, the GOP governor of Massachusetts -- who would fill the Senate seat by appointment if Kerry vacates it -- endorsed the lieutenant governor's request.

The precedent was set eight years ago, when Republican Bob Dole, who was then the majority leader, resigned his Kansas Senate seat in June in order to focus on his campaign to unseat President Bill Clinton. But Kansas is reliably Republican, and the seat stayed in GOP hands.

Four years ago, Joseph I. Liebermann caused frustration in his own party when he chose not to give up his Connecticut Senate seat to run for vice president. But the vacancy then would have been filled by a Republican governor.

The 14 votes Kerry has cast this year all occurred over three days in March. He voted against enacting the law (PL 108-122) creating a separate federal crime for harming a fetus during another crime. He supported several gun control amendments but then voted with a lopsided majority to defeat a bill (S 1805) to shield gunmakers from lawsuits. And he voted with his party against the Senate GOP version of the fiscal 2005 budget resolution (S Con Res 95).

On May 11, a Democratic effort to provide extra federal unemployment benefits was defeated by one vote in Kerry's absence. Democrats defended Kerry, who was campaigning in Kentucky, suggesting that Republicans would have been able to change one vote to "no" if Kerry had returned.

Thanks to Silver from the Acura-cl.com community. This was his original post.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 8:34pm

Post 190 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Xcession wrote:

...life always does seem that little bit better in America, despite the fact that it isn't.
Now now, Xcession. Jumping the gun too, aren't we? That's not fact at all. It's your opinion really. Yes, there are terrible places in the USA to live in, but there are terrible places in the UK as well. I was born in Europe and now live in Canada. If I had to move, I would choose New Jersey over Liverpool. I didn't much like liverpool. From my experience, I don't consider life to be better there than in New Jersey. Not even for a second. That too, is my opinion and not fact, same as your statement.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 8:43pm

Post 191 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

I thought that statement was about as neutral as possible razz
Basically, life is no better in england than america, as far as i'm aware - both have their good and bad places. Of course its my opinion, the entire post was opinion. When did i say it was fact?

The point of that line in the context of the post, was highlighting how people always see the grass as greener on the other side, and envy it...even when the grass is exactly the same shade razz
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 8:48pm

Post 192 of 283

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Xcession wrote:

When did i say it was fact?

Xcession wrote:

...despite the fact that it isn't...
right there wink

Xcession wrote:

grass as greener on the other side, and envy it...even when the grass is exactly the same shade razz
I love that saying. Funny thing about that is that the grass isn't greener on the other side for me. One yard is full of dead grass and the other is a yellow semi-jungle. lol
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 8:51pm

Post 193 of 283

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

hehe, ahh, now i getcha.

My grass is a marsh, thanks to having emptied the pond over it.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 9:57pm

Post 194 of 283

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

gent23mj wrote:

The jokes about the anti war signs were referring to the people that are fanatics just to be fanatics, the crowds that Jesse Jackson appeals to smile
Indeed. Personally the only thing I'm fanatical about is being anti-fanatics.

I don't tend to bother distinguishing between fanatics, or whatever they're supposed 'cause' is. Fact is, as soon as you become a fanatic - of any cause - you become nothing but fanatical. That's all you are and will ever be.

Extremes are rarely a good thing. There's my side and there's your side, and somewhere in-between lies the truth. Consequently, the further either one of us strays into our own opinions, the further we get from the truth.

'I', 'you' and 'us' being hypothetical and general in this particular instance.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 9:57pm

Post 195 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

sfbmovieco wrote:

9/11 happened 3 years ago and Michael Moore decided to release this movie three years late, in an election year, with dvd sales to begin around october/november I would guess? And it's merely an op ed piece? You are all being SHAT on by this guy.
An op-ed piece does not preclude having an agenda. Moore stated clearly that he wants Bush out of office...

The point is not there.
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 11:29pm

Post 196 of 283

gent23mj

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Apr 2003 | Posts: 224

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

JohnCarter wrote:

sfbmovieco wrote:

9/11 happened 3 years ago and Michael Moore decided to release this movie three years late, in an election year, with dvd sales to begin around october/november I would guess? And it's merely an op ed piece? You are all being SHAT on by this guy.
An op-ed piece does not preclude having an agenda. Moore stated clearly that he wants Bush out of office...

The point is not there.
i think it is obvious that alot of us will do what we can to get done what we think is right, no exception made for politics or an election. Moore is acting on behalf of his beliefs and doing what he thinks is right, by supposedly uncovering the long lost truth about bush.....so i think his AGENDA is VERY CLEAR
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 11:45pm

Post 197 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Great! So why is everybody foaming at the mouth then?
Posted: Tue, 29th Jun 2004, 11:53pm

Post 198 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Because he is lying to get his point across. Anyone can lie to make one side more appealing than the other.
Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2004, 12:09am

Post 199 of 283

JohnCarter

Force: 3295 | Joined: 11th Mar 2003 | Posts: 1078

VisionLab User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Since you haven't (and won't) see the film, how do you know he's lying?

How fair of a chance are you giving the man?

I haven't seent he movie myself yet but from what I understand, it's msotly a montage of clips from various media recounting the events since 9/11. And unless Moore has access to the best CGI team ever assembled in the history of Computer graphics, the moron on the screen saying the stupidities is the real, one and only bumbling idiot himself, good old George W.!!!

We are talking about news footage here... Stuff that was recorded from various sources... Moore can't be accused of staging White House events now, can he?

As I said before, if Moore was lying so much, he'd be drowning in libel lawsuits so much he wouldn't (and couldn't afford!) to make movies.

I agree with you that Moore sometimes "spins" the truth by cleverly juxtaposing images or statements, leaving things left open to a narrow interpretation that obviously makes his point and suits his agenda. But that's not a lie. And it's not a crime. It's done all the time...

In fact, Moore and his target, georgie boy, are basically similar in my view...

Because he is lying to get his point across. Anyone can lie to make one side more appealing than the other.
Kinda like when Bush and his cronies said there was WMDs all over Irak complete with mobile labs and the next best thing to a nuclear device when in fact there was nothing but rusted cans and shells? That's spinning the truth and a half my friend!

And I think that's much worse because that's an outright lie from a major government no less, not just some schmoe filmmaker. The republicans tried to impeach Clinton for a blowjob yet nobody says a peep about an administration that lies baltantly to not only it's country but the world... Fascinating.

It's not because somebody disagrees with the leader of a country that he's obligatory an enemy of the State. That's a very dangerous slope to be on I believe.

Patriotism is a good thing. Blind patriotism is the embryo of fascism.

And as far as propaganda and disinformation goes, the current U.S. administration is doing a much better job than Moore if you ask me...
Posted: Wed, 30th Jun 2004, 12:14am

Post 200 of 283

sfbmovieco

Force: 2354 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 1552

VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

They DID impeach Clinton, not for oral sex, but for lying to grand jury. If I had done what he did, I would be in prison. And spinning the truth IS LYING. Read Sidewinders posted websites to see where he is lying. Moore got his information from his own studies. GWB didnt go personally looking for wmd's and relied on his staff and other countries intelligence. We did find wmds and links to al queda if you were kept abreast to the official 9/11 report and the UN. Only open your fucking mouth if you know what your talking about bitch.

You follow the other side just as blindly, if not more so. So your the one making the judgement call. All liberals want to be Robin Hood, but a fucked up one at that. Stop blaming other people for your problems and take some responsibility.

Liberals realize that if and when we did win the war, they wouldn't do good. So what do they do? Try and make it appear as if we are losing and blah blah blah. We lost more men in ww2 training excercises than in those whole war. The misinformed liberal is the worst kind of idiot any sane man can encounter.

Page 1 of 2: 1, 2 | Next