You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Tutorials CD?

Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 9:55am

Post 1 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Just read the Full Plug in downloads thread... I couldn't help but think, what if CSB decided to make a tutorial CDROM. These could be more in depth and feature higher resolution clips. I'm sure users here would buy them.

Just a thought...
Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 1:45pm

Post 2 of 33

Klut

Force: 2120 | Joined: 16th Apr 2004 | Posts: 1585

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Tutorials for plugins? Alamdv? Chromy? I've lost you...
Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 4:21pm

Post 3 of 33

MrShmoe

Force: 1114 | Joined: 29th Apr 2003 | Posts: 411

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

sigerson wrote:

Just read the Full Plug in downloads thread... I couldn't help but think, what if CSB decided to make a tutorial CDROM. These could be more in depth and feature higher resolution clips. I'm sure users here would buy them.

Just a thought...
I really like that idea.
Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 5:05pm

Post 4 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Klut wrote:

Tutorials for plugins? Alamdv? Chromy? I've lost you...
Not sure how I lost you, but...

Yeah. Everything. Doesn't matter what they're tutorials of. It could be for AlamDV plugin design to Chromanator tricks. Just all the tutorials they have, with more indepth coverage and higher resolution clips. Maybe $15-20 bucks a piece. A training CD, or series of CDs, if you will of their products.

An element that professional software have, whether it would be from Microsoft Office to Avid Xpress to 3DS Max is the availablilty of reference material. Not sure if CSB has the finances to start publishing training books of their software yet, but I think a tutorial CD would put them in the right direction. Not to mention, a little extra cash flow for them, too.
Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 8:20pm

Post 5 of 33

Klut

Force: 2120 | Joined: 16th Apr 2004 | Posts: 1585

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

How about new members getting the tutorials 40% cheaper???
Since the need it the most...
Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 9:09pm

Post 6 of 33

Marek

Force: 2225 | Joined: 25th Dec 2002 | Posts: 1754

EffectsLab Lite User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Klut wrote:

How about new members getting the tutorials 40% cheaper???
Since the need it the most...
That makes absolutely no sense.

It's just like saying

Marek ~Hypothetically~ wrote:

How about old members get it for half price because their cooler?
See? No sense.

Last edited Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 9:13pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 9th Sep 2004, 9:11pm

Post 7 of 33

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

alam and chromy are so simple to understand and so easy to use. I don't see how the tutes online are not enough.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 12:34am

Post 8 of 33

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

It's like the plugin CD. More and more get added everyday.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 7:42am

Post 9 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

alam and chromy are so simple to understand and so easy to use. I don't see how the tutes online are not enough.
confused

How simple you think Alam or Chrom is, is not the point. Fact is, popular established software have reference learning materials that people can purchase.

You seem to be missing the bigger picture here. If Alam/Chrom and CSB are to keep going, they're going to need to have some offline reference material available, IMO. Think about the new users who've never seen Alam or Chrom before. Is it so simple and easy for them? Different people will have different learning curves. It's different when you have offline resource material to refer to, as well. That's why computer reference books sell as well as the do, in spite of how expensive they normally are. It's different when you actually see someone do it on screen without having to log onto the net.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 7:53am

Post 10 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Serpent wrote:

It's like the plugin CD. More and more get added everyday.
New tutorials being added? Great. Purchase a new CDROM with newer tutorials. Sort of like a Vol 1., Vol. 2, etc. thing happening.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 7:17pm

Post 11 of 33

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

you want a cd?

http://fxhome.com/support/tutorials/list.php?cat=1

burn those to a cd. biggrin Thats really straightforward. I think making cds like that would just hurt CSB. The programs are so simple, and the current tutorials (free) are so great, that paying money for having those cds produced, and taking the time (less alamdv3 work) to produce them, when no one would buy them because its not complicated like after effects, would just hurt them.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 9:01pm

Post 12 of 33

sk8npirate

Force: 590 | Joined: 28th Feb 2004 | Posts: 757

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

I think AlamDV and Chromanator are made to be simple and not needing users to purchase extra tutorials than whats in the tutorials.
Posted: Fri, 10th Sep 2004, 11:21pm

Post 13 of 33

wpl

Force: 1782 | Joined: 17th Jul 2002 | Posts: 1389

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I just can't see why you guys wouldn't want to pay for something that is currently free. This is just beyond me razz








If anyone out there is wanting a tut. CD I have made a couple copies and am willing to sell them for $10.

I have a limited amount. So get your orders in quick.

For an extra $5 I will throw in a link on the CD where you can find the same tuts. for free. How about that for a deal wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 1:31am

Post 14 of 33

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

sigerson wrote:

You seem to be missing the bigger picture here. If Alam/Chrom and CSB are to keep going, they're going to need to have some offline reference material available, IMO.
No, YOU'RE missing the bigger picture here. Currently, CSB products are offered as online downloads, so making tutorial CD's of the tutorials that are already available to download for free makes absolutely no sense.

Once CSB's software is available for purchase in software stores in boxes and on CD's (if that ever happens. Not saying it's not possible, just that online downloads seem like a better idea), then it would make sense to have reference material packaged with the box.

Doesn't it seem fairly redundant to you to have cd's of the stuff that's already online, and perfectly helpful as it is?
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 11:38am

Post 15 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

you want a cd?

http://fxhome.com/support/tutorials/list.php?cat=1

burn those to a cd. biggrin Thats really straightforward. I think making cds like that would just hurt CSB. The programs are so simple, and the current tutorials (free) are so great, that paying money for having those cds produced, and taking the time (less alamdv3 work) to produce them, when no one would buy them because its not complicated like after effects, would just hurt them.
Well, I think it's called a difference of opinion here. CSB is going to need some help to get along dry spells, guys. How complicated or easy CSB products were was never up for question. Neither were the quality of the current tutorials.

As much as the CSB crew would probably disagree with me on this...I think they probably will at some point make a best of CD for the plugins some time down the road. Yes, I can see their point when it comes to curbing piracy and whatnot. But that's just a fact that all software developers have to deal with everyday. Any system that you can think of that will curb piracy will at some point be compromised. And the potential revenue of a CD of plugins is tempting. That's simple business. It's not easy making software for profit these days, guys. Every little bit can help or hurt in the long run. Anything you try to do has some risk involved.
Samething with a CD of more indepth tutorials. It has potential for some revenue. But its just potential. Nothing more until someone actually tries it.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 11:49am

Post 16 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

sigerson wrote:

You seem to be missing the bigger picture here. If Alam/Chrom and CSB are to keep going, they're going to need to have some offline reference material available, IMO.
No, YOU'RE missing the bigger picture here. Currently, CSB products are offered as online downloads, so making tutorial CD's of the tutorials that are already available to download for free makes absolutely no sense.

Once CSB's software is available for purchase in software stores in boxes and on CD's (if that ever happens. Not saying it's not possible, just that online downloads seem like a better idea), then it would make sense to have reference material packaged with the box.

Doesn't it seem fairly redundant to you to have cd's of the stuff that's already online, and perfectly helpful as it is?
No, in fact it only can make sense to me. Not everyone wants to log onto the net just to get tutorials. Some people have their work machines offline, too. Everyone's setup is a little different. Software makers need to make note of that. Which is why I am so thankful that they have not implimented a online registration/activation scheme for their products!

As for the tutorials, a little more indepth to them is not a bad thing. Screencapture movies of what the guys did step-by-step. Or possibly, another idea is to take email questions, and then answer them showing exactly what they did, step-by-step. Sort of like a computer show atmosphere, except done only on a Pay CD basis. I mean anything that will help. Anything at all.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 11:59am

Post 17 of 33

Rawree

Force: 3250 | Joined: 27th Jun 2002 | Posts: 1925

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

It's pretty pointless comparing CSB to most other software companies in terms of the impact of piracy or what other companies release in the way of tutorials or CDs as they are not in the same league:

Adobe After effects - £1000 (something like that??)
AlamDV or Chromy - £50

Adobe Team - Thousands
CSB - Less than 10

I'm sure you can see where I'm going.

Anyway add up:
The cost of a CD
The shipping from the UK to the US, Australia, etc..
The cost of their time making, posting, these CDs which could be spent on better things.
The fact that they would be in need of constant updates (Plugins for AlamDV2 are uploaded nearly every week, when Alam3 comes out they'll all be redundant, Tarn has a new tutorial for chromy every few months etc)

I really think that if it was of financial benefit to them they'd have done it before.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 12:42pm

Post 18 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Rawree wrote:

It's pretty pointless comparing CSB to most other software companies in terms of the impact of piracy or what other companies release in the way of tutorials or CDs as they are not in the same league:

Adobe After effects - £1000 (something like that??)
AlamDV or Chromy - £50

Adobe Team - Thousands
CSB - Less than 10

I'm sure you can see where I'm going.

Anyway add up:
The cost of a CD
The shipping from the UK to the US, Australia, etc..
The cost of their time making, posting, these CDs which could be spent on better things.
The fact that they would be in need of constant updates (Plugins for AlamDV2 are uploaded nearly every week, when Alam3 comes out they'll all be redundant, Tarn has a new tutorial for chromy every few months etc)

I really think that if it was of financial benefit to them they'd have done it before.
I probably wouldn't have worded the part of CSB not being in the same league with Adobe quite like that... smile

CSB's products are just geared for a particular consumer group. That's all. The comparision isn't a great one because Adobe is already a recognizable name, they're already at or near the top they can go. CSB is still on the ground floor waiting to take off. That's a far more exciting position to be in...ok, not quite as financially rewarding, but still.

You can't really say that if it was a financial benefit that they'd already done it, either. I mean there are probably far more users of Alam/Chrom now then there were say a year ago. User base gets bigger and bigger. And they're hungry for more ideas and techniques. The smart thing is to try and exploit it.

And you're right, it's going to cost money to make a tutorial CD. Time is money. It's a gamble. No one can say that it is a bad idea if they've never tried it. At least if you try it, you can either mark it down as a success or failure. If it's a failure, fine...cross it off on the list of things that could work. But at least now you know. Right now, we don't know.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 1:32pm

Post 19 of 33

raider

Force: 774 | Joined: 25th Mar 2002 | Posts: 360

Windows User

Gold Member

there's a very smart reason they do not provide a cd. Leaving it at the hands of the general public allows for the vast content you see here. If they distributed this content on cd and charged the public, there would be no alamdv3 - they would be tied up in litigations! Take another look at a lot of the plugins and tell me if you think there's no copyright issues there. And as for tutorials, what would you put on the 600 MB left over on the disc? Plugins? See above.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 2:23pm

Post 20 of 33

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I don't think they will make a best of cd, as alamdv3 will not use as many plugins, and it would be pointless to sell outdated plugins to people when they can get them FOR FREE. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 3:01pm

Post 21 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

raider wrote:

there's a very smart reason they do not provide a cd. Leaving it at the hands of the general public allows for the vast content you see here. If they distributed this content on cd and charged the public, there would be no alamdv3 - they would be tied up in litigations! Take another look at a lot of the plugins and tell me if you think there's no copyright issues there. And as for tutorials, what would you put on the 600 MB left over on the disc? Plugins? See above.
Well...I guess we're in big trouble then aren't we?

The biggest asset to AlamDV are its plugins. This exposes the gravest issue with the software. More users = more attention by the general public. Meaning, more people asking questions. Maybe what CSB will have to do is make more stricter rules in terms of what plugins they allow to be available on their site.

You telling me there are no legal plugins at all?
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 3:05pm

Post 22 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

I don't think they will make a best of cd, as alamdv3 will not use as many plugins, and it would be pointless to sell outdated plugins to people when they can get them FOR FREE. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Convienence makes no sense? Are you being serious?

But the plugins thing was never what this thread was about...that was just an example of other things CSB could do to get revenue.

I'm just thinking out load...I'm sure CSB has already thought this through anyways. If they didn't, then they'd better.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 3:31pm

Post 23 of 33

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Convienence makes no sense? Are you being serious?
no, thats not convenience. SELLING THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY FREE MAKES NO SENSE. Why would you pay for something that you can get online FOR FREE anyway? The products are downloads online, so anyone who has a product, has the internet. So they can also download the plugins and tutes!
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 5:02pm

Post 24 of 33

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Guys, it is a bad idea and isn't going to happen, so stop even arguing, it's a wate of time.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 5:13pm

Post 25 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

Convienence makes no sense? Are you being serious?
no, thats not convenience. SELLING THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY FREE MAKES NO SENSE. Why would you pay for something that you can get online FOR FREE anyway? The products are downloads online, so anyone who has a product, has the internet. So they can also download the plugins and tutes!
Umm, dude... Linux/BSD is free. Yet people buy it. Shakespeare plays are free. Yet people buy it. It's different when people have access to it right at their fingertips as opposed to having to get it online. Not to mention, it wouldn't be just limited to the tutorials that are on here. Maybe not everyone wants to spend time downloading extra stuff. You have to give consideration for that when you're a business, either small or big.

There could be more stuff included also. Whether it would be demoing other features that people probably had never thought of using before, or using them in a different way.

Honestly, you guys...what is up with you? Take a look around at your local bookstore chain. Look at all those computer reference books. Notice anything similar? They *ALL* contain information that you can get online. In fact, none of the computer books that I have held information that I couldn't have gotten online. But that's the convienence of it. I can refer to it immediately instead of having to make the trek online. It was worth it to me. Obviously, a CD of the nature I'm proposing isn't to you. But you can't speak for every user here.

As the user base grows, the need for such a thing will increase. The more users, the more desparity in them in their ability to either understand the software right away or the need of more hand-holding. And please don't say something like, if they can't get how simple this program is, then they shouldn't be using it garbage. Seriously, that way of thinking doesn't wash. With the advant of affordable DV, there is a floodgate opening up of newbies. Some of which are going to want to use software such as Alam or Chrom. And some of those users aren't going to catch on as quick. So I would argue that a tutorial/extra/etc. CD will be a good idea at some point for CSB to get into.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 5:16pm

Post 26 of 33

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Serpent wrote:

Guys, it is a bad idea and isn't going to happen, so stop even arguing, it's a wate of time.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 5:20pm

Post 27 of 33

Marek

Force: 2225 | Joined: 25th Dec 2002 | Posts: 1754

EffectsLab Lite User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

This could be one of the most annoying arguements in recent FXHome history.

There aren't going to be any tutorials cd's. Just because you refuse to back down, sigerson, doesn't mean that you're changing anything.

If you own the programs, you obviously have an internet connection. And it's not like getting online is a hastle.

Give it up. It's not going to happen. Not today, not next month, most likely not ever. CSB is an online company. Hence, they should have online materials. They're not Adobe, get over it.

I'm sure there will be something to increase revenue for CSB in the future, but selling something that's already free is not what it will be.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2004, 5:31pm

Post 28 of 33

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

yeah, somebody lock this, im getting tired of arguing for something that is so blindingly obvious. I think you are the only one who thinks this was sigerson. Point is... IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2004, 8:14am

Post 29 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

yeah, somebody lock this, im getting tired of arguing for something that is so blindingly obvious. I think you are the only one who thinks this was sigerson. Point is... IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
All this is, is conjecture and surmise. No one can say for certain if it will or won't work. The only way to find that out is if CSB actually tries it. The safest way for CSB to find out without actually losing anything is to put up a pre-order option of some kind with the condition that it will go ahead if they reach a certain number of orders. If they get enough pre-orders then there you go. If they don't, no big deal. They can send an email to those that pre-ordered it by saying, "We're sorry, we did not reach the number of orders that we needed to make this worthwhile. Your credit card will not be charged. Sorry for the inconvienence, but we thank you for your consideration." That's probably the only way CSB can find out for sure without losing any sleep over it. This can do two things; One, prevent CSB from losing money by making x number of CD's, and Two (most importantly), it gives CSB the hard numbers of their target audience. That's the most important thing for any business in their business plan.

The only other ways for CSB to generate revenue from what I can see at the moment would be creating another software title; one thing that is clear about CSB products is that they are trying to put the power of the professionals to the hands of non-professionals at a non-professional price. Problem is that whatever this other title would be would only slow them down in their development of Alam3 and DigiGrade. Another option could be to add a donation button. I've seen some sites do this now, though, it's mostly for freeware/open-source stuff. But I guess it can't hurt since they won't lose anything. I guess the only other thing I can figure would be...well, I have no idea if this actually makes money, but I have seen other sites do this. Sell CSB t-shirts, mugs, and merchandise. "Got Chrom?" T-shirt anyone?

Never, ever, say that something is so blindingly obvious. There is no such thing as a bad idea for business or film making. It's all about the execution. I mean hey, before Smith made Clerk's, no movie executive in the world gave him the greenlight on a screenplay for a movie about nothing that featured two foul-mouth clerks. Business is just like film making, it's all about problem solving. Money is a little tight for CSB so that's a problem that needs to be solved. That's all.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2004, 9:52am

Post 30 of 33

Rawree

Force: 3250 | Joined: 27th Jun 2002 | Posts: 1925

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Why don't you start a Poll in the forums saying "Would you buy a Tutorial CD" - Yes, No

Then outline what sort of stuff you'd want to see on it, then show the results to CSB or whatever. That way there is no risk to anyone and you'll get the reaction of the people who would/wouldn't be buying it.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2004, 10:07am

Post 31 of 33

sigerson

Force: 810 | Joined: 15th Apr 2003 | Posts: 112

Gold Member

Rawree wrote:

Why don't you start a Poll in the forums saying "Would you buy a Tutorial CD" - Yes, No

Then outline what sort of stuff you'd want to see on it, then show the results to CSB or whatever. That way there is no risk to anyone and you'll get the reaction of the people who would/wouldn't be buying it.
That's a good idea. Especially since it would mean less trouble for CSB. But I just couldn't help but think that it would be like an election poll result. Poll results get skewd. It's like a cause. You have people supporting rallies and causes...but sometimes when it's time to put your money where your mouth is... People can disappear. sad

The way I figure it, with a pre-order system, there is no going back. But there is a flaw with that, too. A pre-order system would exclude anyone who wants it who does not have a credit card. So that does kind of suck. I mean there is no point in sending CSB a cheque or money order for potential vapourware. So no idea is perfect. But nothing wrong in thinking out load, either. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 27th Oct 2004, 3:52am

Post 32 of 33

rdelavega

Force: 1250 | Joined: 12th May 2004 | Posts: 89

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

I just watch the tutorials because the guy in there is really funny wink
Posted: Wed, 27th Oct 2004, 11:11pm

Post 33 of 33

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Yes, that'd be Tran. smile But they are also very useful.