b4uask30male wrote:I did offer them a while back for sale ( at a loss in fact ) if people wanted to see a better quality version. the reason that idea started was because i had some people show the online versions at stargate conventions and i thought that dvd quality would have been better. I took the for sale down after about 1 month ( this was 6 months ago )
Unfortunately, Ian is spreading a misleading version of the story again (and I see James got over here before me while I was copying and pasting this info), so here's the whole post (so you guys can have a record of it here) as to what's *actually* been going on.
So, here's the chronology:
July 2 - IanPaterson shows up on TFN, hawking the fifth episode of the Call it a Stargate
series. Within 12 hours, people notice that the filmmaker is offering the films for sale on his site THAT DAY and ask questions about this activity. (at that point, he was asking £10.00 GBP, $17.00 USD, $23.00 CAD, $25.00 AUD, 14.00 EUR, 1,820.19 JPY - information taken from pages listed at www.archive.org)
July 3 - IanPaterson claims he has "written permission to sell the films from the makers of the real show."
He also exhibits his tenuous relationship with grammar and spelling.
Other readers express incredulity at these claims, as this flies in the face of precedent set from nearly every major studio. Readers also note that if this *is* the case, nothing on the filmmaker's website mentions this, and warn the filmmaker about the consequences of selling his films, both to himself and to the fanfilm community.
Filmmaker (which is what I'll call him from now on) goes silent on TFN.
July 28 - Filmmaker claims to have just discovered the original TFN thread, even though he is the one who started it. Acuses aother filmmakers of being lazy.
He makes the contradictory statement "Just because they argreed I could sell them doesn't mean they should be out their in shops."
Actually, had anyone with the capability to grant permission *HAD* granted permission, that is *exactly* what it means.
In a separate thread, filmmaker offers to show the *email* he claims is his proof. An email is not written permission, as he claimed on July 3. He also claims on this date that "we don't sell that many and i'm selling them somewhere else."
So - July 28, and HE'S STILL SELLING THEM.
Also makes the claim that he is the only one who ever contacted a film company about their fanfilm, and in his haste ignored the precedent set up by many others, including Durbnpsn (Oobie), Josh Meeter (Steven Spielberg BOUGHT his original fanfilm), and the entire official Star Wars fan film contest.
STILL July 28 - begins to crack on his permission story - lets on that his email is not from MGM, which sinks his argument right there, as they are the only entity who can grant permission.
Claims the email granting permission said "We have no issue with your films being sold on your site at this time, we have viewed the content and find it no offensive to the brand."
Ignores the fact that this statement *does not grant permission*, just mentions that they aren't concerned *yet*... yet will become very important later.
Filmmaker then begins ranting rather incoherently about being called a liar, gets huffy, and vows to storm away from the thread, since he's been persecuted so unfairly.
STILL July 28 - Filmmaker returns to the TFN thread. Big surprise. Claims someone on the Stargate crew (names the person as "William Boyd Godfrey", but an IMDBpro search does not turn him up as an actual crew member) saw one of the films and showed it around the set. Also claims a website reviewed his films positively, although that bears no relation to the subject at hand, as the site in question (sci-fi-online.co.uk) is a fan site, not affiliated with The SciFi Channel or any studio, especially MGM.
Filmmaker NOW claims that the above message ("We have no issue with your films being sold on your site at this time, we have viewed the content and find it no offensive to the brand.) which he claims is permission came from The SciFi Channel UK, which ALSO shoots down his permission argument, as the channel does not have the authority to grant those permissions.
Filmmaker goes silent.
At some point during this time, the filmmaker received a letter from MGM UK stating he is not allowed to use the Stargate name, request that he remove the content, and bring up the subject of damages.
October 13 - Filmmaker shows up again on TFN "to clear things up"... claims he stopped selling the film "ages", before the original thread, which is an outright fabrication, as the films *were* on sale on his site when the discussions started, and *still* on sale at least three weeks later.
Filmmaker gets annoyed people have a memory and can read the archived posts, asks us to "please drop the selling part". Again charges that he's the persecuted one here, since other nameless people agree with and like him so much. Also tries to draw attention away from his own wrongdoing by stating that he "noticed that someone else was selling films and was a member of TFN, when i asked jedi if he would report him.... well you can guess"
- however, this must have been in a PM, as I can find no record of it on the boards. Also, I'm curious as to who he means, as I haven't heard of another TFN member selling films illegally - if there was one, we would have dealt with it exactly the same way.
Filmmaker also posts on the gaters.net boards that he told MGM he lost money on the deal, and [/i]"I had the for sale part on for about a month, 6 months ago but pulled it off".[/i] He's clearly lied to them now, as the facts show he did have them for sale as late as the end of July, and as far back as October 2003, as evidenced by the page archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/20031023135134/http://superteam.biz/aboutus.htm.
October 14 - This morning on TFN, the filmmaker posts that the films weren't for sale on his own site (using the quote I used above from July 2
, as if that makes everything okay. However, he ignores the fact that it was finding the films for sale on his website that caused this discussion in the first place. And you can see an archive of that page here: http://web.archive.org/web/20040207174421/http://superteam.biz/aboutus.htm.
But then IN THE SAME POST (!), he claims that "i never did sell them somewhere esle so i hope you lot feel guilty"
- I'm frankly at a loss to understand this one...
Also that morning, the filmmaker claimed again on gaters.net that (all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding), he pulled the sale of his Stargate films "ages ago", clearly showing that his definitions of "ages" doesn't match the norm. He also claims that any negative comments about his films were because people didn't really watch them. He tries to slam the Star Wars fanfilm community with the misconception of the films being "4 mates fight with sticks and then add some fx's"
, which although may have been true several years (or ages) ago, is now a swift ticket to having your film rejected from TFN - which BTW, is also what happened to the Call it a Stargate
films when they were submitted to TFN some time ago...
Frankly, I'm astounded by the filmmaker's latest post on gaters.net - he mentions the details of MGM's demands, which unfortunately are exactly the kind of actions we thought a corporation might make (stop making the films, destroy the masters, pay court costs) in a situation like this, and vows to stand defiant in their path - had he done nothing wrong, I might applaud that, but this person was selling his film without permission, lied multiple times about the chronology of events, and cannot accept the fact that he's made a mistake (a *very* big costly mistake, now)...
And now he's trotting out the unsubstantiated claims again that other people are selling fanfilms, so that somehow makes it all better. Well, sorry, Charlie, it doesn't work that way - *if* other people are actually doing that, and *if* the copyright holders feel the need to take action, woe be unto them - but that doesn't change the fact that you did something wrong, were warned *REPEATEDLY* and yet continues blindly along, and you got caught.
I'm gonna close with a quote from the filmmaker that he made on July 28 - "Just thinking whats the worst that could happen if someone sells dvd's without permission (like some people i've seen, but i;m not going to bug them to show me if they are allowed)
worst case. = the company asks the sell to stop selling, the seller still sells, the company threaten seller with court action. the seller sells story to papers, "poor fanfilm maker is sued by giants ", it goes to court, the court order the seller to stop selling and charges for court costs."
Guess what, Ian/Mark - you at least got one thing right - enjoy your prediction...