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Do you make a film with fx's in mind.

Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 5:44pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi
Just trying to get a feel for something,
When you plan a film do you guys think:

I want to blow people away with fx's and so this new film will have the best

I want to only have a few fx's ( but good ones ) and work more on the story.

You think of an excellent scene, then work a story around that.

You go for a hard hitting title first then work from there.

if none of the above, can you tell me how you start your filming proccess please.
thanks.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 5:45pm

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Klut

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I go for a hard hitting title first then work from there and then want to blow people away with fx's and so this new film will have the best.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 5:50pm

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b4uask30male

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That's interesting, i do the same, i didn't expect anyone else to work from the title first.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 6:04pm

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theone

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i jusually visualizes parts of a scene i find interesting, work out a list of things i want to connect them with and think mainly most of not getting the movie to long and boring, fx comes last.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 7:15pm

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Sollthar

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I usually start with some small idea, either visual or dramatic - then develop the rest around it.

For example "Oh, I want to make a movie where someones head gets chopped off" and then I made Wild Danger. "Oh, I want a film where to brothers have to kill each other" then Face to Face was made. "Oh, I wanna see what footage looks like if I make it blue" then GHOST was made. And so on.


The most important part for me is the pacing and tension. I always think first of what I want to film to FEEL like, then I think about what it should LOOK like and then how I do it.


Never want to blow people away with anything. Especially not FX. I just do them where the script demands them. If I need a VFX shot for the story, the character, or for the tension, or simply because I like it, then there it goes.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 7:16pm

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GeeksGoneBad

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until now I've just been making stupid little effects tests, which I only just wanted to see if I could pull off an effect, etc... but now I'm working on my first 'real' movie (one with a plot, LOL) and I started with the idea first and wrote the story, and then I broke it down into scenes and then wrote the script for it... So I guess you could say that I'm a "Story first" person... smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 7:16pm

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Andreas

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Yikes, butt hard question there Ian.

I got this huge bunt of notes of excellent first scenes for various movies that mostly present the charachers in one way or another.
From there my hard work begins trying to countinue with the story.

So yeah basicly I get this excellent scene in my head and work from there, but I never think I'll build a story from an effect I thought about. neutral
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 7:17pm

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MrShmoe

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I make up a story and then I decide if I want to have fxs (often I want to), but i like to focus more on the story.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 8:09pm

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Evman

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I make movies with mainly story in mind first (excluding tests), then the characters and development. Then I focus on how I can blow the audience away with a special effect of two. Usually, the title comes last for me. Its either a code name assigned to it, or just "the movie". Titles should reflect the content, not the other way around.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 8:14pm

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Serpent

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I make movies based on ideas in my mind, like, I think of a cool short or something, if it envolves effects, I will try and make 'em good.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 8:15pm

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boffa86

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first time im starting with the title haha biggrin (dead walkers)
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 10:58pm

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ben3308

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If I want to make a movie I think about all my favorite things from movies; including angles, props, techniques, all sorts of stuff. I'll make a list of about one-hundred or so ideas or phrases like:
I need sugarglass, fireworks squibs, overhead monopod angle, the use of the local diner, a shot in the bathroom with the character looking into the mirror, and the phrase, "My father braved those whom others feared". And I go from there. Writing the script, I mean. Most times the script can't get finished in time for filming so I make a schedule for filming with times, locations, and bits of dialogue and elaborate upon that.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 11:03pm

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Pooky

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I usually just get an idea, then when I am in the bus or in my bed trying to go to sleep I think of what scenes I could have, then later find ways to connect them together to for a full movie.
Posted: Wed, 20th Oct 2004, 11:12pm

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Waser

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the movie thats in my sig will have 1, MAYBE 2 effects in it, but they are really small. I think it is just whenever I think of a movie, an effect is needed, but I don't think about a movie to make because of effects (most of the time)
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 2:49am

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xbreaka

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personally i think fo the plot and everything and if at all possible try ro do everything physically, if it cant be done or can but cg would be hella faster*im lazy) for example starships flying, sure it can be done phyiscally but its a pain in the ass. So i use cg when a effect is not capable of doing physically or if it can but cg can produce equally good results in a less period of time.
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 3:28am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +2

I thought I'd leave it a bit before I posted in this thread with my view on amateur film and the importance/involvement of special effects in the creation or development of a film.

I'll start by simply stating, that a film doesn't need any special effects to be a good film. Some genre's however need special effects to back up a storyline or inject the feel of realism into a scene whereas some films revolve totally around the fact that it has bodacious (heh) special effects.

Personally, I don't believe I consider special effects until I have already developed some basic form of idea for a film, I find it to be very rare indeed that a special effect drives me into making a film as a pose to having an idea, and then implementing special effects into the storyline at parts I believe will be effective or in some way which is visually pleasing.

Obviously here at FXhome, special effects are somewhat popular... what with the fact that CSB make applications which specialise in such areas and for that reason alot of films are submitted which are in essence effects tests, however there are many films in the cinema with well thought out ideas that utilise special effects to their advantage, and that's the way I like to work.

I see AlamDV2 and soon AlamDV3 to be very powerful tools in backing up a storyline or idea and adding the visually exciting element to scenes in a movie, when the special effects are more important than a storyline it normally shows, quite often in a way that derives from a movies overall effectiveness.
I think that covers everything, there have been some interesting answers in this thread smile In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with creating a movie from a title, as it's only just a means of inspiring creation. smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 5:37am

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Redhawksrymmer

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Heh, before I always started with a movie created around a specific special effect.

- Oh, let's have that cool AlamDV Slomo muzzleflash in a movie!

And then I builded a movie around that. To be honest, I think a lot of people here have actually done it sometime, except I can admire it doesn't sound too good to actually say it. Anyway, i have learned from my mistakes, as I am currently making (my first) long movie with a script not based around any effects.

That's only my thought. smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 7:50am

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Klinn OWarren

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A lot of times I find myself thinking of really explossive and exciting single scenes. I've tried to make up stories in the past revolving around sleak moments, but I found that they turn out like every other Steven Seagal or Arnold Schwarzenegger movie - lots of action, but not much "story meat" to have any kind of a lasting impression or entertain anyone beyond a one time view. I find that I love watching movies/films that have a number of great elements that work together to form a great piece of art - (including by not limited to)A.K.A. great characters/acting, depth of story/script, humor, and yes, bits of action. Any of these by themselves doesn't hold my attention very long and ultiamtely ends up on the $1 sale wrack. The rule I like to keep these days, is that if you can't tell a good story without sfx, you'll never be able to tell a good story with sfx. I say compose a story outline involving no sfx first, then add those elements later as a accent when the script is mapped out, to allow for creativity to give birth to a broader spectrum of possibility and a much more artistic and visually interesting piece. This is not to say that someone may come up with a stunning piece based on a single idea - I won't deny that this could spawn something truly great. From my own experience, I say, "write first, animate later." smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 8:09am

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b4uask30male

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so, looking at the answers i can see a pattern that I hoped would be there.

Passion, most of you use passion first weather it's from a single scene that fires you up or special fx's.

I've seen some really bad films from hollywood recently and thought why the hell do these get made, and from your answers i can see,
i think they get made because a story is written and sold, the passion is not there, THE INDUSTRY NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT GET EXCITED BY single SCENES, SCENES ARE WHAT KEEP US WATCHING TO THE NEXT SCENE.

Keep it up guys and never lose the passion.
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 10:04am

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NoClue

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I see images in my head sometimes eek and try to think about expanding on them (and where they came from !). They could be a single scene, or the begining of a film, or the end. I just try to build around them. SFX either end up in the film or not, but they're not the basis of the films.

Then of course work gets in the way and I never actually get a chance to MAKE any of the films I think about. How do you lot find the time? I know most of you are kids, so you don't count, but what about the few adults that are part of this website. Where do you get the time to make these films? I'm always too busy and it's really starting to P#*% me off because I love making films.
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 10:14am

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Klinn OWarren

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I have the same problem, between my job and family related stuff, there never seems to be any time. To be honest, the moments are a bit fair and few in-between. Sometimes you have to stay up an extra hour one night, or go so far as to specially plan a segment of a weekend to make something happen. It's the only way...
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 10:34am

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Hybrid-Halo

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b4uask30male wrote:

so, looking at the answers i can see a pattern that I hoped would be there.

Passion, most of you use passion first weather it's from a single scene that fires you up or special fx's.

I've seen some really bad films from hollywood recently and thought why the hell do these get made, and from your answers i can see,
i think they get made because a story is written and sold, the passion is not there, THE INDUSTRY NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT GET EXCITED BY single SCENES, SCENES ARE WHAT KEEP US WATCHING TO THE NEXT SCENE.

Keep it up guys and never lose the passion.
Enthusiasm and a passion for film making is indeed a good thing, but enthusiasm over individual scenes is not solely capable of making a worthwhile movie as ultimately some form of overlying string is needed to keep everything together. namely... a beginning middle and end.

Enthusiasm isn't alays a good thing either, some of Arnold Schwarzeneggers acting for example... I think what the industry needs is someone who can inject his enthusiasm into learning which in turn becomes talent, because enthusiastic, talented people are exactly what the industry needs.

I'd like to think that here at FXhome, through constructive criticism and reviews of submissions, Users can improve and learn and hopefully fuse what they have learnt into talent that will lead to better and more cinematically impressive cinema submissions, hopefully to some day surpass that.

I think that's right, FXhome is the fusion centre of gung-ho effects and enthusiasm. The powerplant of amateur effects. biggrin
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 10:57am

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b4uask30male

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Sorry, what i was trying to say is:
Most crappy hollywood films = made for money only (including sequals)

Amatuer film makers = make films that they think people would want to see because if they have a passion for the story or scenes then it shows on the film and you have better chance of making a better film.

Not really talking about talent as we can't compete with the studios but what we all have is the desire to impress.
Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 1:03pm

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Sollthar

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Most crappy hollywood films = made for money only
Honestly I think thats crap. smile


Some people just have an odd taste (Like David Lynch wink ) or simply fail at doing exactly what they had in mind.

Take Stephen Sommers for example. He always gets attacked for being the typical Hollywood-Blockbuster-made-for-money-only director. But if you watch his interviews, even a blind man can see that he's as excited as a small child about what he does. Cool weapons here, explosions there, CG monsters here - his eyes start to glance. smile

Same with Michael Bay.


I don't believe there are films made for "money only". Wheter good nor bad ones. There's always someone behind it all who just enjoys that kind of thing.

It's just not always what other people enjoy too.


To be honest, I don't think there's much of a difference between "hollywood" and "amateurfilmmakers". Everyone wants to do what they like and what they like to see.

The only difference is that hollywood has money and makes money with it, and we don't. That doesn't make them bad though. wink

Last edited Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 1:20pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 1:16pm

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hippa03

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Sorry I should have posted this earlier -- I think!!!

In amateur filmmaking, as always I have that movie feeling haunting me. Wherever and whenever I go and do, I feel that something missing or evenmore something telling me WHY ARE YOU SO IDLE IN MOVIES GO AHEAD AND START ONE NOW,TODAY. !!??
Now it comes to me that a subject would be bearing in my mind for a long time, then when the time is right I sit down and start to formulate the script.
Once I start something the first thing that I do is to look around for the available actors props equipment an all that there is available for my production.
In short I write and make my movies around my availabilities.

And rcamuk don't be that pessimist, a day is 24 hours long you work who much 8, 10 hrs like myself. Still got 14 hours left. Use some for your family maybe 2 0r 3 hrs. still there is some 11 hours left. In the remaining time you came work a bit a day, say 1.5 hrs and enough time to sleep or rest. If you do this three times a week you can have 4.5 hrs which are utilised by your movie apetite. Now go on and get going.

But then when it comes to business which I like to do to increase my daily bread, that's another thing. I meet my clients and after they show me their needs for the assignment I sit down and work my sum, which sometimes would be much different from the above, which I do with more amour................ love!

Last edited Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 1:35pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Oct 2004, 1:29pm

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stqagehanduk

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Script first. If it ain't on the page it ain't on the stage ...
Posted: Sat, 23rd Oct 2004, 7:46pm

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Two Gunned Saint

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"If it aint on the page, it aint on the stage." I disagree, Wong Kar-Wai never uses a script. He's just an absolute genius, who gets some fantastic actors (and some not so great ones, who he makes great) and his manic DP Chris Doyle and things just kind of... spring from the moment. So whenever he wants to get permission or something, they always ask to see a script, but he don't got one. However that often improves things 'cos he just has to go guerrilla like most guys out there do and that makes the moment all the richer.

"2046" which went several years over schedule happened bacause and I quote "when you have to use visual effects, I recomend you have a script". (I'm not recommending that all of you just throw away the screenplay and wing it, by the way.)

John Woo created pretty much all of his action sequences back in Hong Kong up as he went along.

Sam Peckinpah used to create whole scenes out of thin air, and they're often the most memorable parts in his films.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the script is everything it's the Idea, if you're good enough you can just wing it and great things happen. However I personally and it's a safe bet most of the rest of you aren't as good as Wong Kar-Wai, so I spend alot of time writing, but even more time storyboarding getting my ideas straight, but still sequences do happen out of nowhere.

The starting points for my films have been "I want to make a Monty Python style comedy", "I want to make another Monty Python style comedy", " I want to make more Monty Python style comedies", " I want to make a James Bond, style Mission: Impossible movie now", "wouldn't it be cool if you had a guy in white and a guy in black in a mexican stand-off, like the yin-yang symbol" and finally "why not put all of those thoughts that have been floating through you mind for seven years into a film"

But I try to keep effects to a minimum, as much as possible live action. So I do take into account computer effects when making a film but normally, it's "if we can't do it live don't do it at all." And I don't think about it at all when I start out making a film, I'm thinking about the characters normally.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Oct 2004, 8:03pm

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stqagehanduk

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SCript doesn't just mean dialogue. It meams structure, and without structure you just get a mess. Fine, you can impose structure after the vent through editing, but it doesn't change the fact that if you don't go in with a clear idea of what you want you're not going to get it.

Obviously film is a visual medium, but if the script's unreadable
the fikm is most likelty going to end up unwatchable.

There are obviously exceptions to the rule - the Robert Altmans and the Ken Loaches - but I still stand by my assertion that a film made from a weak script is inevitably going to be found wanting.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Oct 2004, 8:17pm

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Two Gunned Saint

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Yeah yeah true true. The scripts all about the Idea you're right on all counts there, I'm just saying don't underestimate the power of the moment. smile
Posted: Sat, 23rd Oct 2004, 10:02pm

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fertesz

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I never wrote a single word of a script smile It's partially because I'm lazy, and partially because I don't always have a paper but I can think about it everywhere (bus for example). My first movie had no complicated plot - on the contrary: the plot was invented to suit the movie. I mean: I knew I was going to try making Star Wars movie (TFN inspiration), so I looked around, learned few things (got Alam DV2 biggrin ), in the same time the script was forming in my mind. It is like: "it is hard to get Star Wars costumes (convincing) and Star Wars location - so I can make it nowadays - in present world but with Star Wars elements" - so I made Initiation - episode 22856. Everything was in my mind - yeah, I know that it could be difficult with longer projects, but I have quite a good memory, so I experienced no problems in working like that, on the contrary - it makes it more flexible.

As for effects - it's hard to say whether I think of effects first or last. These effects are tools which could be used to make movie more interesting, especially with so little plot - my first movie (and my second too) are made for pure amusement - it's fun to make it, it's great to watch it. But we are constantly learning. So probably - my eventual third movie would have a real plot, bacause you can't really make same movies again and again - first was beginning, second will be like "everything better", so third should be "level up" too. I was fully aware that you can't make a great movie with great plot and effects just like that. But making movies is very instructive, even more then I suspected before, so my skill and knowledge grow. It is important to know your capabilities, so you won't try to make something "too big for you" (at the time).

And as for title - that's kind of last thing I do smile Often when there is nothing else to do at the moment (script is ready), and I have some free time. It's hard - to come up with some title that would satisfy you. My first movie had no complicated title (Initiation), but I like it, you can understand it in two ways - characters initiation, and ours (filmmakers) - because that's our first movie. Second movie won't have complicated title either - Second Strike, but I think it is O.K., never had special ambition for the title wink

I also agree that passion is important, and not only in filmamaking! With passion everything is much easier and gives better results: coocking, studying, fighting etc. If you are interested in something - it's a pleasure to do it and that's important. After all, on amateur level we all do it for fun, at least to some extend. And I agree that those guys in Hollywood have to have some sort of "passion", at least most of them. How else did they got into this bussiness? But they have money, which opens whole new possibilities. That's surely cool cool
Posted: Sat, 23rd Oct 2004, 11:30pm

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Serpent

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rcamuk wrote:

I see images in my head sometimes eek
I think of story, and I get the images in my head too. My images usually come true, but I have to concentrate on fx to get the image right. I go for the passion, as b4 put it.