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What do you guys think of Maya..

Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 7:10pm

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TommyB

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Hi Guys,

I'm starting to learn Maya, well I 'have to' complete a project in a few short weeks. I'm used to Cinema 4D, which I've got a firm grip on, Maya however has the most appauling interface known to man, and I'm finding it extremly difficult and frustrating to use.

Can anyone reccomend some begginer's tutorials?

Or would I be better of mastering C4D, rather than trying to start learning Maya?

Cheers,
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 7:23pm

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Rawree

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1) You won't learn Maya in a few weeks
2) If you're more comfortable using C4D then use that for your project
3) Start learning Maya now as well or else it's a lot of money wasted. (Tutorials that come in the manual?)
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 8:09pm

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TimmyD

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Try out Wings 3D. Google it to find the website. I find it extremely good. I have modeled countless things and impoted them to Cinema 4D for rendering.(Wings 3D's renderer sucks). Once you get the hang of it its extremely easy. Check out the thread that Rawree posted of the 3D showcase. That lava lamp there i modeled in Wings, then rendered in CD4. I have no idea how Maya works.
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 8:16pm

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Rawree

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Yeah but if you've bought/have access to Maya you really should learn it rather than Wings or else it's just a waste.
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 8:54pm

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TommyB

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I don't have access to the manual, and I don't have Maya at home yet - only the "PLE6 Version" - No idea what PLE means as I haven't installed it yet...

I tried google, but it'd be nice if anyone knows some start tutorials?
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 8:55pm

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TimmyD

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I just noticed that great screen name you had. just like mine biggrin
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 8:57pm

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Rawree

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PLE means Personal learning Edition, it's fully functional but watermarks all your renders. How come you don't have access to the manual? It will have been installed with Maya.
Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 10:07pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +1

The sole reason that lots of people like Maya, is that it's a buzz word. You know... the kind of thing the stupid spoilt kid would crave after because it's well known. Because aside from that I find Maya an extremely bad program to learn the concept of 3d or the basics of modelling with.

If you're able to, have a look at the latest MacUser you'll read in their "best 3d app award" section that they feel the same, rating Cinema 4D release 9 the best 3D application available on macintosh (up against maya and lightwave).

My advice to you, is to stick with Cinema 4D, it really is a truely powerful program capable of easily creating things which, in other applications takes lifetimes. And the results you can get can be just as good. Check these out;





Cinema4D is more than capable of doing what you want it to. The only other 3D application worth a glance is 3DS Max, and I'm only saying that because Sidewinder WILL kill me if I don't wink

Last edited Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 11:06pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 26th Nov 2004, 11:05pm

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ssjaaron

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i totally agree! but if you do learn 3ds max it is very powerfull tool for film making. so if anything stay with C4D or learn 3Ds Max. hybrid you took the words out of my mouth eek
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 1:27am

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cinematography

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I've been using Maya for about 2 years now and I still think it's a piece of sh*t! Sometimes the problem isn't you, but the program itself. I found 3D Studio and even Softimage XSI MUCH easier to use. XSI has the best tools and interface of them all though, but that's just my personal opinion. Look on the bright side though: The more programs you learn, the more valuable you'll be as an employee.

Good luck.
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 4:40am

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cantaclaro

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Now yall know I can't sit idly by while you bad mouth my favorite app. Maya is the best program to use once you pass the learning curve. If you worked hard for 2 months you wouldn't have any trouble learning. I recommend the Maya books available on their website as they come with a DVD and video tutorials of all of the tuts in the book.

Canta unsure

Last edited Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 4:25pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 11:01am

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otteypm

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What would be the point of Maya if it were easy to use, it is capable of outstanding results the tools that are made available and the depth of the program are the reasons that it is hard to learn.

I find the interface to be very easy to use, the tabbed layout of modifiers the detachable menus and so on all work well once you understand them. It's not a beginners package and you have to walk before you can run.

The best place to learn from is the video tutorials on www.3dbuzz.com
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 4:52pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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The problem with that theory, is that incredible things are possible with any 3d application provided you sit down and master them. I'm not convinced at all that "you can do some cool stuff if you learn it" is a good enough reason to use it when I find the interface so horribly bad.

Sure, some truely excellent things can be produced with Maya, but if I can create those faster and better looking with Cinema4D... then why would I want to use any other program other than to build up a knowledge base of 3d applications?

Whilst it's true that learning more than 1 3d application gives you more 'learnt applications' under your belt, at what point do you want to master a program rather than being a jack of all trades? For a large part, 3d and modelling is just a theory and technique which can be ported into any modelling program including those that are company specific (Like Marionette for example).

You have to remember, that more complicated doesn't necessarily mean any better. The programs on sale here at fxhome are a great example of that.
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 5:18pm

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billy3d

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I just knew Hybrid would post here wink
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 5:34pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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*hides his Maxon business card*
Posted: Sat, 27th Nov 2004, 5:37pm

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xbreaka

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well the advantages maya has over many other 3d apps is it has all the tools you need, it can be the 3d pipline not a piece of it. Ala its a complete studio in a box. But being so complete means the interface is very cluttered where it might take you a hour to do something in maya it might take a few clicks in XSI but all progs have different there advantages and disadvantages. Ill post some, ill try not to be biased as myself i use maya and max.

Maya-
-expensive
-powerful nurbs modeling
-can be a complete 3d pipeline
-great dynamics
-software renderer is utter crap
-hardware renderer is worse than utter crap
-i find editing materials very hard
-lighting is difficult at times
-character animation seems difficult

Cinema4d-(this is from what iv heard hybrid or whoever correct me if im wrong)
-inituitive interface
-good renderer
-can be confusing having to move between windows
-ok student version price
-ok plugins
-doesnt have the seniority in the industry that softimage and maya have

Lightwave-
-best modeler out of all the apps(this may cause a flame war but from experiance and reading countless reviews many pros consider this the case)
-Excellant software renderer, although the renderer is aging most 3d houses still use it.
-used extensively in the star trek series
-particle system(hyper voxels) not used much but with time can look very good
-moveing between 2 programs(modeler, and layout both part of lightwave) can be a pain

Softimage 3d and xsi-(i dont know much about this one)
-used by industrial light and magic
-used on many vfx heavy films(star ship troopers etc)
-incredible student price(295$$ eek)

Houdini-
-used extensively for particle effects
-modeler is a bit weird compared to other apps

3ds max-
-nurbs modeling is utter crap
-capable of great effects but many times requires expensive plugins
-good polygon modeling
-great character animation abilitys
-interface is clunky at times
-default renderer is utter crap
-node based particle system seems odd
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 2:30am

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otteypm

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The problem with that theory, is that incredible things are possible with any 3d application provided you sit down and master them. I'm not convinced at all that "you can do some cool stuff if you learn it" is a good enough reason to use it when I find the interface so horribly bad.
Yeah, I agree with you on the idea that incredible things are possible with any 3d app, and anyone who knows me can say I am a C4D evangelist, the fact that you find the interface is bad in Maya is fine, but that is personal preference, people create top notch stuff in blender, but I would prefer to have my eyeballs peeled than use it.

Ultimately the quality of the work is the result of the users skills, I enjoy using Maya and I find it's interface very intuitive to use. I don't comment on programs I haven't used so I don't comment on XSI, lightwave, real3d etc etc but in my experiance Max and Maya beat C4D on sheer depth of functionality, up to version 7 C4D was missing some very important tools, such as good basic polygon manipulation and multi object selection. But I still use C4D and still put it high on the list for it's speed and simplicity of use, and the fact that it has a very good built in rendering engine.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 6:41pm

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Mellifluous

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I'm a Cinema4d fan and I find that quite easy and intuitive to use. I've just recently bought a 3ds max student version though and already I'm finding that pretty easy to use too. Keyframing appears to be a bit easier with it than C4d (the version of C4d I have is 5 though, so maybe that's changed).

Shouldn't you have tried the demo of Maya before buying it (as I get the impression you have done)? I'd definitely try the demos of ALL 3d progs just to see which one you're least daunteded by
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 7:06pm

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ben3308

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My dad got Maya about a year ago for his work (He's an architect) and bought a quickstart manual- it was a 6 inch thick book, really- for it- and I learned Maya after about a month of toying with it. Sadly, the computer that it was installed on, with all my renders- a flimsy 90's Dell Latitude- was obliterated in extreme weather conditions. *Ben looks into the sky, holding an empty Latitude case* "Why God? WHY?!?!?!?!?!?"
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 7:09pm

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Rawree

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So you've still got Maya?
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 7:16pm

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ben3308

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No. The disk got messed up through no fault of my own. And my dad's work gave it to him, so I didn't have to spend any money. All I could ever make was an old man or some type of room L, with a couple of objects in it. I wasn't really good at all. Like I said, it was my dad's and he was pretty protective of it, so I didn't use it THAT much.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 9:07pm

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A Pickle

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Rating: +1

I'm an ardent Max user, so i'll try and be balanced.

If I were to point out the strengths of 3d Studio Max over other software, it would be these.
-Powerful Material Editor
-Powerful Procedural Materials
-Vast Freeware Plugin Library
-Vast Commercial Plugin Library
-Help files that actually help
-Physics emulators (Reactors 1 & 2)
-Powerful Character Animation
-Ease of learning.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 9:19pm

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ssjaaron

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i agree pickle. i know that 3d Studio max is probebly the best 3d program out thier. i wish they had it for mac i would by it and learn it in a heart beat razz
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 9:25pm

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Rawree

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The only real downside to Max is that it's not used as widely in film as Maya. Apart from that I'm with Pickle
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 9:53pm

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xbreaka

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i tried to be balanced, with my points about each some may not agree but for the most part i wrote the real facts about them.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 10:17pm

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Joshua Davies

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Just to comment on the c4d winning in MacUser thing... It was the top version of c4d (over £2000 worth) taking on the baby version of Maya (Maya Complete which is about £1200 worth) and they both got the same rating but c4d managed to just win. Put it up against Maya Unlimited and it wouldn't stand a chance - every professional 3d artist would take Maya Unlimited (but then it is like £4500).

I tend to play with 3d rather than do it at a professional level (although I doubt many people here do make a living from it). I do know a few professionals who do 3d for a living on games and a couple in advertising.

It would seem that for games etc that 3DS Max is the king still (as it has been for a while) but when it comes to film visuals that nothing comes close to the power of XSI - everyone seems to agree on that one.

After that its all down to preference. Most people seem to go for Maya over 3DS Max with Cinema 4D behind both of them. Then Lightwave and stuff at the end of the pack. This is if you are talking about full 3d modelling and rendering applications. If you are just looking for a modeller then you can add some other applications in to the list.

As for me, I've only played with XSI stuff for a short time but it did seem amazingly impressive. 3DS Max I could get on with straight away and was building semi-complex stuff within a week. Maya seemed far more complicated to me with its none-standard gui but I also got the feeling that if I gave it time it would be better for my animation needs that 3DS Max. I used Cinema 4D from its first version up to 7 or 8 but never found it that good for the semi complex stuff i was trying to do - i often felt like i was fighting against the program which just seemed a little too simple. That said it is on version 9 now (?) so when i have some time i'll give it a go again.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 11:04pm

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xbreaka

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lightwave at the end of the pack, i think not lightwave xsi and maya are the most used apps for film, lightwave is more in the front of the pack
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 11:09pm

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Rawree

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But I was under the impression that Lightwave was used in film more for Animatics and the like rather than final renders (I believe max is sometimes used for similar purposes)
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 11:10pm

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xbreaka

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actually lightwave is used by alot of vfx houses as a renderer, but its never really used for particles. Most also think it has the best modeling tools of them all.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 11:34pm

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Joshua Davies

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Lightwave is still used by lots of places for modelling but then work tends to move to XSI of Maya for what you see animated and rendered in films.

Lightwave is becoming less and less popular even as a modeller as more dedicated sollutions come on to the market.

Where Lightwave is still strong is for special effects for TV productions where the cost of the 3d work is far more limiting. In advertising and film where the highest quality is need it tends to be XSI and Maya all the way.
Posted: Sun, 28th Nov 2004, 11:44pm

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xbreaka

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yes i agree
Posted: Tue, 30th Nov 2004, 8:54pm

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sazdmz77

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I've used 3d Studio Max in the Past and it's easy if you've used basic 3d modeling programs. A starter program like Rhino 3d would be good. The only problem is that you are very limited with what you can do in all of those beginers programs. You're best off using Cinema 3d or whatever it is, but maybe next time try out one of the ones above.
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 4:20pm

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Klut

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Isn't like "the best 3d software is the one YOU think is best" ? If you think 3dmax/c4d/maya is best, keep using that software.
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 4:57pm

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Mellifluous

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I agree that people should find the software that suits them best, but there's always going to be programs that are objectively just simply the best.

I'm lovin' 3ds max. Weirdly, I'm finding it easier than Cinema4d now. 3000 pages of manual is ripping the p*ss out of the fury though.
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 5:28pm

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Z28Jerry

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Yes, I agree. The best 3D program is the one you can use and get the most out of with your skill level and free time you have to invest in it.

I personally went down the Maya road (argh). It has a HUGE learning curve and I would not recommend it for casual 3D graphics or quick things that most of us like to do. I have been on it for 7 months and counting. That being said, Maya is a friggin powerhouse and at the same time a bragging right like someone else already mentioned.

I have done some REALLY neat stuff in Maya that took me HOURS, hell...DAYS that I have seen some of you schlepts do even better with what some people consider "lessor" programs. Makes me sick I tell you. Just goes to show, a tool is just as good as the person using it. For that reason, every 3D graphic program I use will turn out to be crap;)

bla...bla....bla....my software is more expensive than your software, lol. Shows what kind of idiot I am. Hell, if someone asked me, I would not even admit to using maya after seeing some of your guys stuff.
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 5:36pm

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Klut

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But I think cinema 4d is a greate place to start, I'm going to save upp for the studio bundle. My friend might to, but for now, we're using blender.
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 5:55pm

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GeeksGoneBad

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Hey guys! Sorry to jump into the conversation so late smile

I've got a friend that does game animation. He modeled and animated the characters for the Lord of the Rings PC game... Anyway he swears by 3DS Max (or whatever it's called, I can't keep track) smile so I challenged him to NOT find the similar functionality in Lightwave and he couldn't, BUT he's not going to switch... Which brings me to my next (and not final) point smile

Whatever 3D road you decide to go down, will probably be the road you should stay on! Unless whatever app you chose doesn't do something that you need it to... Most of the 3D apps are plenty good enough...

so my last point is... Saying that this one is better than that one, just doesn't make sense... For instance... My Friend using 3ds is way way way better than me using Lightwave, but NOT because the app is better, it's because he's that much better of a artist, period... The 3d app is just the "paintbrush and canvas" and the real talent is in the person who uses it...

So you'll have to pick ONE and get on with it! smile
Posted: Wed, 1st Dec 2004, 10:17pm

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TommyB

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Hi,

Sorry for late reply...

Ok, so I gather that Cinema4D is a great programme to get you started. I'm aware C4D can produce stunning results, I've used it for about a year now, and integrated it with my films. I agree with those saying how easy it is... its interface is nothing short of fantastic, and most goals can be accomplished by guessing.

I personally think Maya's advantage is the range of plugins, I've heard that effects in The Day After Tomorrow were acomplished using Maya and fluid plugins. However, as you said... it's outrageously difficult to learn... It doesn't take a genious to say it has a very poor interface.

I'm afraid 3DS Max is out of the question... I'd much rather learn it that Maya, but I've only got access to Maya (at college) and C4D (which I bought)

At the moment, I'm only going to use 3D programmes to integrate effects in to my films, so I'm not too interested in modelling and animation.