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Can you believe this?

Posted: Tue, 19th Mar 2002, 11:56pm

Post 1 of 22

RCG81187

Force: 250 | Joined: 16th Sep 2001 | Posts: 19

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I dunno if you all saw this already or somebody posted this already but look at this

http://www.theforce.net/theater//postproduction/saberresults.html

The person who made the lightsabers for the alamdv part sucks. They gave it a rating of last place. I at least think it should be around 3rd place or 2nd. What do you think about the persons drawing the saber?
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 12:11am

Post 2 of 22

Cypher

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must be a mistake, no way alamdv did that

maybe a pre-alpha version of 1 was used smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 1:23am

Post 3 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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I don't think Alam Dv's sabers are that great. Yeah they are easier to place, edit, and use than other programs, but there is a much better look if you use other programs. Thats one thing i joped would improve with the change to ALAM dv2 but i have yet to see anything that matches up yet. One of the reasons is that all ALAM is doing, is pasting a bunch of 2d pictures onto your movie. Now the big difference is that on all the other programs, you can make the saber react to the light in the background of the clip, giving it a much more realistic look.
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 1:25am

Post 4 of 22

Cypher

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but did alamdv ever have anything that sh**y?
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 1:29am

Post 5 of 22

glh3586

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He could of used a bigger glow. It would of improved the look. But by far Alam Dv's sabers are second rate at this point.
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 1:34am

Post 6 of 22

Cypher

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but not that horrible
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 2:14am

Post 7 of 22

RCG81187

Force: 250 | Joined: 16th Sep 2001 | Posts: 19

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I dunno if i'm seeing things but the sabers to me look the same in alamdv to me in photoshop. If they remade that movie with how alamdv sabers really look it would be in the top 5. That photo right there is makeing alamdv look bad which it really is a nice program.
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 2:19am

Post 8 of 22

sidewinder

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I must say...

The fault lies in the creator. he or she could have done better...
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 3:42am

Post 9 of 22

anonymous

I think someone just made those lightsabers that bad on purpose. AlamDV can do better than that. For a static picture, the sabers could have been as good as in any photoshop picture...
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 5:14am

Post 10 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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Sorry, but theres a lot more going into a "photoshop" version of the saber than you'd think. It may of been able to get into the top 5, but it by far is not the best. Photshops sabers (inculding MSP, and After effects at the least) can actually interact witht he background, alam's can't do that.


EDIT: I just saw the new version of alam dv's saber test at the force.net It looks a lot better, but if you look at it, it still doesn't match up to a lot of the others. Though by far it doesn't deserve last place.

[ This Message was edited by: glh3586 on 2002-03-20 05:36 ]
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 11:52am

Post 11 of 22

Simon K Jones

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Yeah, but one important thing to note with the new clip is that it only took me a maximum of 15 minutes to do. To achieve a similar effect in Photoshop would take a lot, lot longer.


And what is this 'interacting with the background' you're on about? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

_________________
Keena Films
no-budget epics

[ This Message was edited by: Tarn on 2002-03-20 11:53 ]
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 1:10pm

Post 12 of 22

Joshua Davies

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The AlamDV lightswords react exactly the same way to the background as they would in photoshop - infact the lightmapping is better. Unless you were to draw the saber glow by hand then the only difference is the colours and the compression. Sorenson was a bad compressor to use in the competition as it effects colour.

If we change the colours slightly our swords will be exactly the same. Unlike your doing the glow by hand (which ILM don't do) and taking days to do a 5 second clip.
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 2:24pm

Post 13 of 22

X

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2 points.

1. (No slight to whoever made the clip) But I wne through the cinema section and not one clip looked like that. I mean... look at the frame they froze the clip on! I think that when people vote on things *cough BBG has 3 stars* things get realy warped. And it is down right wrong!

ALAMDV rocks. Alot of people have done stuff rotoscoping and you can argue back and forth on it about quality/time but that "contest" was not fair to ALAM. Look at this one fact: They picked the worst frame of the whole movie to freeze. I mean... come on!

There are at least 10 movies in the cinema section that are done up far better than that. (Again no slight to whoever made that clip)

That said... "FIXED! FIXED! FIXED!" sorry had to say that wink

That said.... 2. As far as the background light I have found nothing about that and light sabers and rotoscoping. Before I found ALAM I did a pretty extensive search on creating a light saber, that is how I found ALAM, and I found nothing on the light interacting with the background. I did see a post where the guy talked about three layered light sabers but also said it took way to long. Anyway I kno what I will use in my new FX flix smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 2:48pm

Post 14 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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The reacting to the background that i was talking about is, when the lightsaber moves over a light surface you can still see the glow very easily. To me thats not realistic. I have yet to see Alam do this. My favorite way to do it is still After FX, it requires a little more set up time, but its just as easy to move around if not easier than alamdv.

EDIT: i must of seen this happening when people used the flickering plug in. the offical one seams to work fine for the most part

[ This Message was edited by: glh3586 on 2002-03-21 03:25 ]
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 3:20pm

Post 15 of 22

Joshua Davies

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Move the lightsword over a light surface and you can't see it at all. Not a bit.

Where have you seen this happening.

The lightswords against the sky in the trailers disappear - it works perfectly in that respect. AlamDV works the almost the same way a Photoshop and exactly like AfterEffects for making the Add key. Therefore with the same colour you will get the same result.

[ This Message was edited by: schwar on 2002-03-20 15:33 ]
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 3:33pm

Post 16 of 22

averagejoe

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Uh, not to be a smart arse but, could u give examples of what ur talking about and included which plugin what version and what color, I would like to see if I could make it look as bad as u say razz All things aside. Light swords are not real and no one REALLY knows what they would actually look like... So when u say it does not look real enough have u seen a "real" light sword? If so we could make plugin that looks just like it.

[ This Message was edited by: averagejoe on 2002-03-20 15:39 ]
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 3:59pm

Post 17 of 22

billy3d

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man i love alamdv and its a good sofware (i mean the best VFX software ever) lightsabers in alamdv1 were not too great but ok but in alamdv2 they are great. placement is easy tweening is easy, setup is easy. alll is easy! anyway who wants to spend 100's of $$ on AE when they have a easy solution.
and the person who made those light sabers on TFN must not be knowing the right method to make sabers

billy
Posted: Wed, 20th Mar 2002, 11:40pm

Post 18 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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Well i just tried the flickering lightsword plugin on a completely white background. Besides giving me a script error, when i turned up the glow i could still see it. Now personnaly i think it looks a lot better in other programs. But for the price Alam works great. I'm not saying that the Alam sabers suck, its just that personnaly i don't like them, and have gotten better results in other programs. Of course this may improve as alam develops, but so far i haven't seen any advantages to using Alam for sabers. Well except for speed, because you can get pretty good results with very little time. But I personnaly don't mind the 2-3 extra minutes it takes to set up affter fx.

(btw there isn't just one "photoshop" method, theres a lot of them, by far the worst is just drawing a line, duplicating that layer, bluring it, and then coloring it whatever color you want the saber to be. )
Posted: Thu, 21st Mar 2002, 1:36am

Post 19 of 22

Joshua Davies

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Right,

I'm gonna test the flickering one - its not made by the AlamDV team. Try one of the standard ones - it won't show up more than it should.

The method I would use in Photoshop is to draw the core and then use an outside glow which uses the screen key.

[ This Message was edited by: schwar on 2002-03-21 01:39 ]
Posted: Thu, 21st Mar 2002, 2:52am

Post 20 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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Ahhh much better. My only complaint about it is how the size of the glow is handled. If the glow is too small than it ends up "disapearing" towards the bottom and upper edges, although this can be fixed by making the glow bigger in alam, but it still fades near the bottom. It looks like thats what happened ont he original tfn alam video. Also (i don't know is this would be possible in the future) the core should have a feathering/blurring control. But other than that the lightsaber isn't that bad, now if some of the other problems that bother me where fixed than i might start using Alam for lightsabers again.
Posted: Thu, 21st Mar 2002, 4:01am

Post 21 of 22

Joshua Davies

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Tell us the problems and I'm on it. Be quick, I'm making the final release of AlamDV2 right now smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Mar 2002, 4:11am

Post 22 of 22

glh3586

Force: 250 | Joined: 21st Dec 2001 | Posts: 9

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Well i don't know how easy this would be to fix. Moving frame by frame works fine for me, but when i hold down the arrow keys for even a second it continues on for several more seconds before it finnaly stops. Of course when effects are on there it will lag on the effects for a couple fo seconds then speed even farther down.

[ This Message was edited by: glh3586 on 2002-03-21 04:13 ]