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iRobot needs help

Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 9:18pm

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johnatkins

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I was watching the irobot spechial features and saw how they did the robots. The had guys in green screen suits. I thought, wow that gives me an endless supply of ideas. All I need is a way to build a green screen suit. I googled all day, can't find bright green swets or any kind of outfit. Does anyone have sugestions. I thought swetpants hooded swetshirt and gloves and socks can all be dyed if I could find bright green dye. bright green face paint should be easy enough. Any sugestions???
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 9:44pm

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Mellifluous

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What kind of effect are you wanting to do here?
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 9:55pm

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johnatkins

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Create unique charictors green screen the person and add video of shinny metal to make robot of running water to make a liquid guy pretty much insted of green screening to background I wanna green screen to person to create sci fi charictors I could film a close up of a curcit board and have curcit board man seen alot worse on late night tv LOL
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 9:56pm

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TimmyD

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Do you have ANY idea how you could accomplish this?
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 10:00pm

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johnatkins

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yes as I stated originally if I can get an full outfit hood socks gloves that are the green screen color face make up, easy to find in white and white can be dyed so if I figure out how to get clothes that color I will have it all figured out
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 10:01pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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The robots in i, Robot are fully 3d models are they not?
I think you'll find that to a large extent, movements for the 3d models just followed their green-cladden counterparts.

Though, I'm not totally sure.
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 10:04pm

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johnatkins

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not all of them if you watch the spechial feature it shows the actor that plays the main robot and how they did it and other actors in the green screen suits walking jumping and stuff they used an actor in a green screen outfit and cgi'd over it it's really genious
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 10:52pm

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Mellifluous

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Rating: +1

Yeah, but they probably had electrode type markers on their suits, transmitting data back to a computer. This data would be used to apply movements to 3d models. In I Robot, the robots are a result of this transmission of data & 3d modelling, not green clothes. The point of the green clothes is having an actor in a scene giving a live performance to help other actors & to provide data for the 3d computer, an actor who can be removed & replaced with a 3d model as a result.

You could try wearing green clothes though, see what kind of effects you could come up with. You could never have detail like faces or eyes though, just shapes of people filled in with a metal background, water, circuit boards or whatever. Would look a bit strange, but I would be interested in seeing results of any tests you do. Good luck.
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 11:00pm

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johnatkins

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didn't look like electroids were used at all I know they were used in Van Helsing to create the vampire brides I know that I'm not going to be able to cgi over it I know it will look weird my eye and mouth should apear if not green but I think if I can figure out how to get a clothes that color it will be a really cool thing, not in a hollywood blockbuster way but in a me in my basement small town guy kind of way thanks for the tips though
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 11:12pm

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theone

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maybe you have some miraculous way to do this effect but i wanted to say that i can say with 99% surtenty that in i,robot and vanhelsing, if not whole 3d they would obvisly use some kind of electrodubbedits to track their motion into the 3d software. i know that was done allmost everywhere when it came to gollum.+++++++++++
Posted: Fri, 11th Mar 2005, 11:22pm

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johnatkins

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Dude watch the bonus features, there amaising! It shows how they do it! Van Helsing female vampires were films in the air in front of a blue screen with elecroids all over there clothes. Anyone and everyone who is a film maker future film maker or even interested in it, should be watching all the behind the scenes stuff for ideas. Not that anything I do will come close but on the public acess level I will be high above the rest!
Posted: Sat, 12th Mar 2005, 12:29am

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Rawree

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The general workflow for most CGI characters in movies is (I believe):

1) Filming of live action actors and somebody in a (usually) green suit doing the CG characters movement.
2) Filmng of live actors alone miming to the non-existant CG character.
3) Motion capture of the CG character's movement matched to the plate shot in step one.
4) Mocap data refined by animators and composited into mime pass or (as with most of the Gollum shots in LOTR) the actor is removed digitally from step one.

The green suits are only so that the actor can easily be removed from the footage rather than lots of masking as they are keyed out the same as a greenscreen is leaving the background.

Mocap is a separate process and that's when the "ping pong ball suits" come in. The actor wears a suit covered in markers and is filmed by infra red cameras which send information about position and rotation to a computer and applies the movement to a "skeleton" and eventually the fully rendered character. Both processes are done at completely different times.

With a green suit there's not a lot you can do that couldn't be done with masking (you are essentially just removing the actor) and a clean background plate (required however you do it). If you tried keying out the actor and replacing him with an image of a circuit board it will look the same as if you had used an OHP to project the image onto him: no rotation, no movement, just the outline of a person and in all honesty a pretty useless effect.
Posted: Sat, 12th Mar 2005, 12:50am

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johnatkins

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I'll have to read up on masking didn't know it was that easy
Posted: Sat, 12th Mar 2005, 3:19am

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Steeb

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johnatkins wrote:

Dude watch the bonus features, there amaising! It shows how they do it! Van Helsing female vampires were films in the air in front of a blue screen with elecroids all over there clothes. Anyone and everyone who is a film maker future film maker or even interested in it, should be watching all the behind the scenes stuff for ideas. Not that anything I do will come close but on the public acess level I will be high above the rest!
Listen to these guys, they know what they're talking about. Most of the time when the vampire brides were flying, they were CG from the neck down. They filmed the actresses painted blue from the neck down and stuck the real heads on the fake bodies.

The robots in I, Robot are CG. The dudes in greenscreen suits are there for the interaction and movement pacing.
Posted: Wed, 18th May 2005, 2:23pm

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schmutly

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Rating: +1

and lets not forget one of the most important people on the set with his measuring tape,yep tape.The match mover. Even having match moving software like mokey,pftrack,SynthEyes,Boujou,scenengenie...the list goes on its just 1 step in hundreds to get the shot you want.They have to track 3d data,calibrate it match a CG element to the set and physically walk over to sometimes difficult shots where the "balls" or "crosses " cant be see and theres no reference to fix on (from the camera's point of view) so joe bloggs has to measure from the camera to point a,b,c,d take height measurements to the camera lens from floor...this massive list goes on and this is for 1 shot that might last a few seconds.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. if you want to incorporate a 3d object into a 2d sceen and i mention this AGAIN for people who cant seen to find that great camera tracking software that was once FREE it was called icarus.Its similar to mokey(motion keying software) and did more than just extract 3d data from a camera pan.You could "REMOVE" a person walking along with his mates as if he wasnt there in the first place.Hard to use????NAH!!!!! Piece of cake...in fact just as easy as fxhomesoftware:-)
Heres 2 links. The first is to the hard to get icarus program:
http://www.world3d.hu/letolt.php?show=free&page=1&spp=40
The second is a german tracker:
http://www.digilab.uni-hannover.de/docs/manual.html
head on over had a good look at the tutorials/avi's as well and i think its what you need.
All the best and keep well,
Robbie:)
Posted: Thu, 19th May 2005, 8:33pm

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The video machine

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That is honestly one of the best posts i've ever seen from a noob, well done, i gave you a +1 and a blue peter badge for your efforts.... lol
Posted: Fri, 20th May 2005, 11:36am

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schmutly

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Thanks for the comments....lol...Peter badge? Dont know that one but im from Down under so that explains it i guess..smile
Im making some tuts from my old days of using 3dsmax with video inc a cg element. The 4 inch manual, not to mention, the 5 inch Ref manual was a bit overwhelming for me Esp. for camera matching.Sori if theres die-hard maxers but the tuts for cam match with the hippo and pool table were gay!
My tut will show you how to easily track a street,say, & with icarus then incorporate another few buildings intergrated into scene as if part of the film.
Itll have to wait till june sometime but it will be done and if youve ever stuggled with it you'll understand it a bit easier once you see the basics.
I use wink, found here http://www.debugmode.com/wink/ which is
Tutorial and Presentation software outputting it as flash (SWF).
And of course...its FREE. Dont by robodemo for >$200.
Lastly....saw Star Wars III today....little disappointing but the continuity at the end was very well done.
C U L8R, Robbie:-)
Posted: Fri, 20th May 2005, 8:39pm

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Serpent

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How is he a noob? He joined two years before you did and has posted three things, one of which is a +1. 1/3 of his posts or positively rated. I wouldn't call him a noob. smile Lurkers are just as much un-noob as the others. Anywho, I really doubt the effect you are trying to generate, johnatkins, is as simple as you are thinking it is. Maybe I am misreading all of your posts, but your ideas don't seem ver plausible to work.