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Web Site Re-Desiging Help

Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:26pm

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Vault FX

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Hi, I am looking at re-desiging my website, and i was wondering if anybody could give me some help or a few tips? smile

I've got Front Page 2003, Paint Shop Pro 8, Gimp 2.2.4, if this helps at all, i would really like to create a really cool lokking site that stands out, and visitors think WOW, but i really do need some help, i don't really have many skills in web design, i really know only how to make a stand website.

My current site address is http://members.lycos.co.uk/firelightmovies/

If any one has any ideas on how i can change the apperance and the design without it look stupid please feel free to list your suggestions, but if anyone could help me create one with the software that i have listed above that would be great.

Thanks in Advance

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:31pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rule number 1 : get your own decent webspace. Having a site at lycos will impress a total number of zero people. It just reaks of cheap crappy hosting and no one will want to touch it.

Crap hosting that throws advertisements into every frame on your site are something that every site designer avoids.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:35pm

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Vault FX

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Hybird - I am in the process of sorting the webspace out, so that isn't a problem. But i was hoping to put my re-designed site on the webspace i that i have got smile. Sorry i should of made that clear at the beginning, sorry.

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:36pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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So you're not actually re-designing anything so much as designing something. As you have no previous site, just a broken image.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:40pm

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Vault FX

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Hybird, it shouldn't be a broken image, that is suppose to be my intro screen with my company logo, if you click on it, it should take you to the main site.

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:41pm

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PhLogan

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

So you're not actually re-designing anything so much as designing something. As you have no previous site, just a broken image.
Click around on the site, there's a link hiding somewhere in the black.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:45pm

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DigiSm89

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1.) Get a different hosting service. Your site is ad ridden and will repel your users no matter how good the design is.

2.) Get rid of the odd intro movie. If you want to keep it, make it optional (place a link saying "Click to skip intro")

3.) I can't see your film title with all the fire on your pages. Tone down on the fire. Also, don't put page headers on top of your title. That adds more to the lack of visibility of your logo.

4.) The buttons really plummet your site down to a level of amatuerity. Get rid of them. Simple text links work nicely too.

5.) If you somehow keep your buttons, preload the images that come up when you move your mousepointer over them.

6.) Tone down on the default font size. It's a bit on the large size. Also, I orange/red text as the dafault color isn't really good, especially if you are trying to convey a professional look. In fact, the whole color scheme is bad for professionality. Reconsider: black background, orange/red text.

7.) Place something that will grab the user's attention on the first page. Perhaps place a screenshot of your latest film or something. (The intro video does not count as grabbing attention FYI)

8.) Gallery Section is wacked. Don't use unneccesary scripts if you don't have to. Place the images on separate lines rather than one.

9.) Make the page fit at least 760px width and no more.

10.) No tabling. Use raw div/css. (This isn't essential atm, however, the results are very significant. I can help you if you need help in this regard)

Other than that, good start.

DigiSm89
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 9:56pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - Thanks for the tips, but that is the problem with my whole site, i like it, but i don't if you know what i mean. With the page titles over the logo i can't get rid of them without messing everything up, it is something Front Page does confused , But this is the problem i got, i don't feel that i can create a professional looking site, because i haven't any skills/knowlegde in web design, so i am finding it very difficult, thats why i have asked people if they would mind helping me. I don't want them to make the site i would just like them to help me with design it so that it helps develop my skills aswell. Sorry for a long big bulk of text.

Hope this all makes sense

Thanks for the tips

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:14pm

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Sharp

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Hello.

Go to www.netdesign.cc and take a look at the website templates there.

If you see any one you like, and you feel that a SwishMax Website is something you would like to own. Let me know which design you like and I will arrange to have it sent to you free of charge.

Regards.
Sharp.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:15pm

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Rawree

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I really think Sharp should be nominated for some kind of award - he's just so damn helpful all the time (newbies take note)
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:19pm

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Xcession

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For god's sake - Say NO to flash wank.

Those who actively encourage people to use flash (yes, even the newbies who may actually be after flash's whizzy, kiddy-pleasing nonsence) should be f*cked up the bum.

HTML is 100% editable, controlable, understandible, parsable, readable and degradable. So you can't write html? LEARN IT you lazy pleb! The web is a privilege, not a right - earn your place on it by at least learning vaguely how it works, rather than ambling about like a sunday driver.

For the uninitiated - flash does not equal html. Flash is a gimmicky tool which never really took off as it was meant to, for making SMALL bits of pretty multimedia stuff, not for releasing your company's presence onto the world wide web.

I'd sooner see every website on the net use one of those tragically samey html templates with some generic 3d swirly stock graphic across the top, than the entire web disintegrate into the inaccessiblity sewer that is Flash...now thats saying something.

[no offense intended, btw Sharp, i (and the rest of the civilised web development community) just loath flash with a deep passion. It is my mission to sweap it into the corner of little advertising boxes, the odd menu and the genius of strongbad email, where it belongs]

Last edited Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:34pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:27pm

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Vault FX

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Sharp - WOW thank-you very much for the offer, I really like the 2060AD template, but the only thing is that my company name is Fire Light Movies, and i think the site should sort of show the comapny name by having things that link to it i.e. fire - flames, red, orange. I really like the 2060AD design but the only thing is that the colours are not right and i dont really want a space look either. So thank-you for the extremely superb offer, but i dont want to cause you any trouble with major alterations, so i would just like to say thank-you for the offer. But i don't think i will. Sorry and Thanks again

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:33pm

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DigiSm89

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dalder: Listen to xcession. Don't do a flash site. Your site would be worse off than it is now.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:40pm

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Vault FX

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Ok, thanks for the tip, I have been playing around with Front Page, PSP8 & Gimp all day and i can't seem to get the hang of designing, lol. I not really sure what i can do does anybody have any ideas, i know you say don't use Flash, but i do like some of the Flash sites that are around, lol. If anybody has any tips or ideas on how i can make a site in the software mentioned, please feel free to list them.

Thanks again for all your help guys

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:47pm

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Sharp

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Hey Xcession

Just because you don’t like Flash, don’t turn my gesture of good fait into something evil and twisted. I’m only trying to help the guy out here.

Your welcome to your opinion of FLASH, but I don’t appreciate your tone and choice of language.

I would rather hear constructive advice. I am a programmer after all in a position to help a guy stuck.

Sharp.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:49pm

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Xcession

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yes yes, i'm sorry, like i said - its a kneejerk reaction. flash is the from the devil's loins, used in the wrong way.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:49pm

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DigiSm89

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Sharp wrote:


Your welcome to your opinion of FLASH, but I don’t appreciate your tone and choice of language.
You got a problem with the words "wank" and "pleb"? razz
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:51pm

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Vault FX

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Hey Guys

Please don't start an argument over my problem, it isn't worth arguing over, you have all been helping me, which i am ever greatful for.

But please don't argue over my problem. smile

Thanks again for your continuing help

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:52pm

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DigiSm89

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If you can fix that logo and place it on a white background and post it here, I might be able to get you started with a quick image (no markup) layout.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:55pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - Sorry m8, don't mean to sound stupid but would you mind going into more detail, because i don't quite understand what you mean, lol, sorry.

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:57pm

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DigiSm89

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Can you post an revised version of that logo you have there with a white background instead of a black one?

I'm going to make a quick layout for you to get started off from.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 10:59pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - the company logo on the very first page, or the logo that is on the home page with home witten over it?

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:00pm

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DigiSm89

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Whichever one you like.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:09pm

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Vault FX

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Well the one on the first page of the site that has the link on is my company logo/lintro, but on all the other pages i have a company logo aswell which i think id the one you want, i have removed the black as much as i could it isn't very good, but the final 1 for the site will be much better.



Hope this helps smile

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:15pm

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Hendo

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Firstly, it should be mentioned that "good web design" can be both objective and subjective. There are some principles which most people would agree make a site appear to be well-designed. But sometimes people will have their own personal subjective preference whether a site is good or not.

Anyway, one useful way to learn good web design is to learn from existing good sites. That doesn't mean you can just steal their HTML (Copyright issues), but you can definitely learn the principles that make some sites work and others not.

Things to look for are:

- colour schemes
- layout
- how easy/hard it is to find what you're looking for
- how easy/hard it is to perform the function you want to do (e.g. search)
- use of styles
- hyperlinks
- how the site uses images (or doesn't)

As an aside, try to learn the <Div>, <Span> and <Table> elements and the "style" attribute.

Flash is handy and definitely has its place, but, as has been observed, not everyone likes it, so you may turn away some potential visitors from your site.

Here are a few sites that, IMO, are well designed (irrespective of their content):

www.google.com -- note the simplicity for the functionality that it provides
www.microsoft.com -- note use of white space and hyperlinks
www.uq.edu.au -- note white space and organisation of content
fxhome.com -- note the consistency and colour scheme

So, to conclude, I'd suggest you find sites that you (and others) think are well designed, and apply those principles to your own design. Remember to design your site around what you think visitors will need to do. E.g., if they need to download your movies, make sure it's clear how to do so.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:16pm

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DigiSm89

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final 1 for the site will be much better.
Can I have the final one instead?[/quote]
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:22pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - Do you mean the final white version? Or the black one?

I'ts just that i haven't got a final white version, because i didn't plan to have the site white, lol.

Sorry if this doesn't help

dalder
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:26pm

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DigiSm89

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Final black is okay.
Posted: Tue, 29th Mar 2005, 11:38pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - Here is the final black logo, but, i am looking at change the logo, but i don't think that will be a problem.



dalder
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 4:59pm

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Slick

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Rating: +1

http://www.siteprocentral.com/ - This has just about everything you could ask for.

http://www.zymic.com/ - Layout/PHP/HTML tutorials

http://www.purephotoshop.com/ - they have cool little tutorials including one about how to get your ps layouts into dreamweaver which can be very useful.

Those three sites should be enough to get you started but you may need additional software if your planning on really learning html I suggest http://www.w3schools.com/ . Have fun!

http://slickslick.deviantart.com
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 5:37pm

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DigiSm89

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dalder wrote:

DigiSm - Here is the final black logo, but, i am looking at change the logo, but i don't think that will be a problem.



dalder
Yeah, I think you need a better logo. No offense but this logo looks very amateurish. If your intent was to emphasize "fire light" with fire, it's more or less degrading the quality of your logo than helping its meaning.

The best way to go about making logos is to use a symbol to represent the meaning such as a torch. The text shouldn't really express the meaning because it gets to be complicated (it's obvious that the fire in your logo messes up the text a bit so you can't really see it well). Although, text can express a meaning well if done correctly (check out the FXHome logo..good example of this)

Also, your logo should play nice with other background colors as well.

I was trying to make a sample layout for you to get the idea but it was really hard to because the logo wasn't really good. Get back to me with a better logo and I might be able to show you some samples for what you can do with that logo.

DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 8:45pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - I am in the process of making a new logo, i have just brought Adobe Photoshop Elements 3, can you please give me some ideas on what sort of thing i need to- do for a logo, because i am still a bit confused, if i created a fireball to go in the top left corner or something, would that do? I am just a little bit confused. Sorry about this.

Thanks for your help

dalder
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:04pm

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DigiSm89

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This is what I came up with, done in 10 minutes:



2nd version with tint of fire in the text:



DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:10pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - That is good, what did you do that in, the only thing is that i would really like it to have really looking fire and torches, i've got the font i want, can i still use the original font that i used for the original logo?

dalder
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:14pm

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DigiSm89

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I used Photoshop 7.

Do whatever you want. What font did you use? If you can find realistic torches and fire, you can post them here and I'll add them.

I can even give you the photoshop document so you can make the changes yourself if you want.

DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:20pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - The font i used is Firestarter i got it from http://www.searchfreefonts.com/. I only got Elements today, so i have just been playing with it, i don't think that i am good enough at the mo, if i can't find any really torches, coud we just have fireballs either side? because i would prefer to have that but if it will cause probelms, don't worry about it. smile

Thanks again m8

dalder
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:23pm

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DigiSm89

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It's your logo, not mine. You make the calls. You want fireballs, you got fireballs.

Just...I'll need those fireballs. razz

DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 9:26pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - You can create nice fire effects/fireballs in Photoshop, you just need to look for tutorials on the net smile

That's what i'm sorta doing at the mo to learn Elements smile

dalder
Posted: Wed, 30th Mar 2005, 10:15pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - I am really having trouble creating a nice looking fireball in Elements, i think it is as i don't rally know my way around and i need to get used to it.

dalder
Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2005, 2:00am

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DigiSm89

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Sorry for the delay.
Here's what I came up with:

Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2005, 9:08am

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - I really like that, but would it be possible to gave the background in back? If not it doesn't matter smile

Thanks again

dalder
Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2005, 1:10pm

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DigiSm89

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In black:



Need anything more, just ask. smile

DigiSm89
Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2005, 11:59pm

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Serdar3500

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If you like this and want more (or something different), contact me personally and I will make a custom logo and website for you for a fee.



serdar at aydemir films dot com.
Posted: Mon, 4th Apr 2005, 10:41pm

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Vault FX

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Hi all sorry for the late reply, been really busy.

DigiSm - I have made another logo i just wanted to know what you thought



What do you think?

Serdar - Thanks for the offer, but i think i would like to try and make my own website and logo, to start with. It's just that i am very fussy on what my stuff looks like, and if i create my site and logo, then i can't get mad at anyone if it is not how i want it (apart form myself), sorry if this sounds harsh and horrible, as it is not my intention to be harsh and horrible. I hope this all makes sense smile.

But i am still in need of help if people would like to help me/ give me some tips and then if i get really stuck, if someone wouldn't mind doing the certain task that i am stuck on they can feel free to do that smile.

Thanks for all your help guys smile

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 3:29am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Serdars logo kicks ass, whereas yours is cliche' and boring. unsure
Maybe you should tone down the reference to fire in the image, something much more sublte would fit into a sites design alot nicer.
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 12:26pm

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DigiSm89

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dalder wrote:

It's just that i am very fussy on what my stuff looks like, and if i create my site and logo, then i can't get mad at anyone if it is not how i want it (apart form myself), sorry if this sounds harsh and horrible, as it is not my intention to be harsh and horrible.
Huh?

Well, I think you need to sort some things out like what your company's image is first before you venture off into ideas like these.

DigiSm89
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 1:22pm

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Xcession

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its only a logo. if someone can't read it they won't remember it.

At least make it something simple and effective. My idea is below

Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 2:48pm

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Vault FX

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Xcession - Wow i really like that logo, what program did you create that in?

What would people suggest for me to do for the site? It is just that i would really like to get it re-designed and up and running as soon as possible. smile

The logo - what would you suggest for the logo i really need help as all the logos that i have created don't seem to be good enough/the right logo for the site, so what would people suggest?

Thanks for all your help guys smile

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 2:50pm

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Xcession

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Fireworks
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 7:31pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Xcession's logo is exactly the sleek simplistic type of logo I was talking about.

Talent, eh? smile
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 7:41pm

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Vault FX

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I think that logo is really cool, your right Hybird it is simple yet effective smile

My only thing is that it doesn't say movies on it , the company name is Fire Light Movies not Fire Light smile

Thanks for the help smile

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 7:42pm

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Xcession

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jeez why didn't you say earlier razz
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:19pm

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Vault FX

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Sorry smile it's just that i am trying to sort out so that i can upload my site to the webspace, but it is being looked at. But also i would of said earlier it is just that i didn't want to say anything, beause i actually haven't got a site design or anything, so i thought it was pointless in saying because i haven't got a site at the mo, not even made, lol, smile

But i do like the logo smile

Thanks again

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:27pm

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Xcession

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how bout this?

(i made a couple of other modifications, as you can see)

Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:29pm

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Pooky

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Wow Xcession, that is some awesome stuff!
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:33pm

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Vault FX

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Xcession - WOW, i really light that one, i think it is really cool smile

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:35pm

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Rawree

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Nice Xcession, just personal taste but I like the version without the dot on the "i" better.
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 8:55pm

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Vault FX

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Yea, i would have to agree with rawree, i like the first version, but in the second if you know what i mean, would the second one be able to have a shadow? if not ti doesn't really matter smile

Sorry to keep messing you around smile. I really don't mean to.

Thanks for all your jelp guys

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 10:17pm

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Xcession

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hmmm. I've added the shadow, and done it properly this time, but i don't like losing the dot of the flaming 'i'.



versus



The dot looks more like the core of a torch, or a match. Without it, it seems less solid - it loses the stylised 3d aspect of being able to slight see through the flames and looks flatter (dimensionaly) and weak. The resulting 2d look makes the whole shadow seem out of place too.

I'd say go with the dot.
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 10:20pm

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Rawree

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Actually seeing the direct comparison I'm thinking that keeping the dot is better - looks like theres actually something burning. Either way it's not my logo so it's irrelevent what I think of it.
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 10:54pm

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Vault FX

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I also think that the dot should stay, now that i have seen them both i think that it looks alot better with the dot smile.

What font did you use on the logo? the font i use is Firestarter, but i actually like the font you have used smile. If i used this logo on my site would tat mean i would have to change my company intro to match my website logo to help keep a constent company identity? or would i be able to keep the same 1?

Thanks again for all your help guys?

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 11:12pm

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DigiSm89

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dalder wrote:

If i used this logo on my site would tat mean i would have to change my company intro to match my website logo to help keep a constent company identity? or would i be able to keep the same 1?
IMHO, cut the intro. razz

There are some instances where flash intros look snazzy, whearas, in most instances they just ruin the whole appearance of the site.

If you were to turn this logo into an intro, the most I can see you doing is having the little flame on the "i" animate. The whole fire downpour thingy is a little wacked, however, it can still work fine if done correctly.

It's up to you, whatever you want. I'm personally against any intro, unless it's something like www.starwars.com biggrin

My $.09. wink

DigiSm89
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 11:20pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - I didn't mean have the intro for the website, i meant for films, lol smile, would i have to recreate a new film intro or could i use my current 1

Sorry i should have noticed what i typed and changed it in the first post, lol smile

Hope this makes sense

Thanks again for the tips & help

dalder
Posted: Tue, 5th Apr 2005, 11:33pm

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Madmanmatty

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I would suggest making a new logo- one that is legible and professional... it'll help add precious credibility to your movies (in the first few critical moments).

I like that banner! (with the dot)
Xscession- great job, you're a good guy for doing all that!!


-Logan-
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 2:13am

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DigiSm89

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dalder wrote:

DigiSm - I didn't mean have the intro for the website, i meant for films, lol smile, would i have to recreate a new film intro or could i use my current 1 dalder
It depends again on what your image is. Try both and see what works for you. I don't think any of us can do more than just comment on the overall result of your productions and perhaps give a pointer here and there.

You have to decide most of this yourself.

DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 9:27am

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Xcession

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The font is 'Warp 1' and is available from any number of free font sites. I suggest you google it.

I'd recommend you change the intro to your movies. Having two differing brands will just be confusing and pointless.

I was actually planning to do an animation for it too, to be used as an intro, but that won't be till later in the week. Don't hold your breath either coz i may find its too tricky to do, or get bored razz
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 10:13am

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Vault FX

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Xcession - Thanks for letting me know what font you used smile also, i don't mind doing the animation if i decide to use the logo, becuase most of the guys that have posted have suggested to just animate the flame, i have paticleIllusion so i should easily be able to animat the flame smile

Not to sound rude or anything but if i did decide to use your logo, how much would in cost in the terms of fees?

Thanks again for all your help smile

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 10:51am

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Vault FX

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I have just got the warp 1 font and i have created a logo which i think is almost the same as the 1 xcession made smile



What do you think? smile

I created it in photoshop elements & i did the flame in particleIllusion smile

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 11:22am

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Xcession

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hmmm.

1. mine is deliberately stylised. Mixing 3d flame graphics and 2d stylised text just doesn't work.

2. the shadow on mine is being cast by the flame itself. The shadows aren't very deep or obvious, because a good logo should be effectively 2d, but with only a hint of 3d for interest-factor ... but mainly because the flame is above the text, so the shadows would be cast directly downwards anyway, not backwards.

3. don't use the same font for 'movies'. You want to brand the name, hence using the font for "firelight", but the movies bit isn't a brand - its just a description of the company - therefore should be simple. I used arial narrow with a 10% kerning increase.

4. calling it "fire light" as opposd to "firelight" makes the use of a flame on the 'light' less pointful, as theres less of a difference between the 'i' in "fire" and the 'i' in "light". There are also obvious balance and symmetry issues too. If you're going to adopt my logo, you'll have to join the words.
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 11:47am

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Vault FX

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Xcession - I have just done a few changes like you said, i'm not quite sure if the shadow is correct. But the flames areb't actually 3D, particleIllusion creates 2D effects smile. But here are a couple of new 1's smile

1.



2.



What do you think? smile

Thanks for all the help

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 11:52am

Post 71 of 114

Xcession

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ok but now you're repeating the 'clever' bit - the fact that the dot of the 2nd 'i' is flaming. Familiarity breeds contempt, so having two flaming dots means the innovation of using the 'i' as a torch is totally lost. thats why i deleted the dot off the 'i' in "Fire" in mine.

And as i said before - using a 2d image of actual flames (whether its rendered by shizzlonator or what) means the vector style is totally lost.

Would it just be easier if i provided my version in a suitable format? Why exactly are you changing it anyway?
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 12:02pm

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Vault FX

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Xcession - that would be fine if you provided me witht he file, if it is ok with you? smile

I don't quite get what you mean, waht have i cahnged, i'm abit confused? lol sorry, i didn't mean to change anything, it's just that i was trying to make a new film intro based on the logo and i was just wondering what you thought of my attempts, and i thought if i tried creating it myself, i am then improving my skills etc & you then would not have to send me the file, not trying to be horrible or anything, sorry. I just thought it would also be easier if i made the logo. I am really sorry i didn't mean it to be horrible and to upset you, i am sorry.

Thanks for all you help i really do appreciate it.

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 12:16pm

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Xcession

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Don't worry i'm not upset or anything, i'm just a bit baffled biggrin

For instance:- i thought it was obvious that the whole 'thing' with my version, is that its all vector graphics - by which i mean solid blocks of colour and stylised shapes. Vectors make the logo simple and bold, yet smooth and elegant.

You seem to be intent on adding a flame effect, which won't look as good as a real flame but won't look as cool or stylised as a vector flame either.

As far as the things you've changed, you've added *two* flames. I only have one and it was a very deliberate choice in my design.
The point of having just one flame, is that it gives your brand a 'motif'. Putting that flame on the 'i' towards the middle of the name, also means the flame gives a nice centralising effect to the logo. Adding two flames, one way over to the left, makes the logo imbalanced.

Perhaps i should have mentionned earlier - i'm a professional graphic designer (and by 'professional' i don't mean i'm 16 and have "my own design company" with a website i made using a template razz) and i've done brands for large organisations. The methods i'm using for your design are standard graphic design concepts.
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 12:24pm

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Vault FX

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Xcession - Thanks for the tips, so bascially, it's best if i get rid of the flame on the first "i" and the flame on the second and bascially have a vector flame? The only reason i used them flames was so that i could animate it and have it as a film intro so that the logos are then he same, but 1 is just animated, so it's best if i get rid of the flames that i have done? I think it looks really nice and cool, but your the pro smile.

Thanks again

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 12:28pm

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Xcession

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you mentionned earlier that you do already have some kind of logo used in your intro. Presumably you were wanting to animate the flame so that your new intro' would be animated like your old intro'.

Perhaps if you give me/us a link to the old intro as an avi/mpg/whatever we could see what you're talking about.
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 12:54pm

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Vault FX

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Basically for the intro of my films i have an explosion and then a fire wisps up and it sota creates the company name, and then the fire continues to burn the link is

http://members.lycos.co.uk/firelightmovies/

It may take a while to load, but it shouldn't take that long.

But if i am going to change the logo for the site, i would rather change the film intro to match it, that's why i used paritcleIllusion for the flame smile

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 6:08pm

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Vault FX

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Here is another version without the dot on the first "i"



What do you think? I know that it would be better with a vector flames, but i think this 1 looks cool aswell smile

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 8:36pm

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Vault FX

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Ok, now that the logo is done of some sort, the final logo is still yet to be decided, but the thing that i need help with now is the actually site, does anyone have any ideas on how i can create a really nice/cool looking site but still professional? I don't really know much and web design smile

Thanks for the help

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 8:49pm

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Pooky

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Hmm I must agree with Xcession that the particleillusion fire is out of place and looks very bad. The key to a good logo is often keeping it simple, and that particle effect just looks random and kind of "Look! I'm a newbie!" ish.
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 9:03pm

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Vault FX

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pooky - Ok far enough, i sorta agree, but 1) i can't draw the flame like Xcession has 2) I am trying to create the logo so that when i create a film logo, they both match 3) if i have a logo where the fire has been drawn how will i animate it, you see when it comes to fire i am very fussy, it has to look just right, i have created some of my own particleIllusion emitters and my biggest library is fire, and i feel/ would like to use them in my film intro, so that is why i used PI in my company logo so that there is consistency, if you know what i mean. But if having a professional looking company logo means that i can't really have an animated fim intro then so be it. Because i think that if i have a drawn flame it would be very hard to animate.

Sorry if this sounds to be angry, i really dont mean it to be smile

Thanks for the help

dalder
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 11:04pm

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DigiSm89

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Why don't you just use xcession's? razz

If your concern is animation, you can create the logo in a 3D fashion w/ the particle illusion effect and then as the last part of the animation, you fade out to xcession's logo.

My $.02

DigiSm89
Posted: Wed, 6th Apr 2005, 11:14pm

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Vault FX

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DigiSm - Well i suppose i could do that, as people have been saying don't use the logo that i created myself, i will use Xcession's.

I actually had an idea for my film intro, i like your idea, i thought i could start with xcessions logo with the flame (and if i could have it without the flame) fade/morph into without the flame and the use particleIllusion for the animated flame, or i could do all this but in reverse, basically like you said smile lol

I know that i will probably use xcession's logo, but what do you actually think of the 1 that i created?

Thanks for the tip smile

dalder
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 12:34pm

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Xcession

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Ok after a bit of pissing about last night when i got home, i came up with this:

(requires DivX)

firelight intro
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 12:51pm

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Vault FX

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WOW I really like that smile, so i have now decided to use your logo smile the only thing is for the intro would i be able to have it a the PAL size 720 x 576?

Thanks again smile

dalder
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 12:54pm

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Xcession

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yeah i'm sure i could do it at that size. will see what i can do this weekend.
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 1:00pm

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CurtinParloe

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just a thought, but wouldn't it be a better idea using a flash movie? Conventional movie clips are notoriously rubbish at loading up really quick...
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 1:02pm

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Xcession

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Its meant to be for his films, not the website
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 4:04pm

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Mellifluous

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Cool job, Xcession.
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 6:41pm

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Vault FX

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Cool, thanks Xcession smile i am going to use your log, where do i stand in the way of fees?

The next thing is, now i have a logo, i need the site, lol, to match the new logo design, does any 1 have any ideas? Please feel free to let me know:)

Thanks again

dalder
Posted: Thu, 7th Apr 2005, 8:12pm

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CurtinParloe

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Xcession wrote:

Its meant to be for his films, not the website
Well, if you're sure... *thinks back to this morning when he clicked on the website link and got bored waiting for a WMV file to play* wink
Posted: Fri, 8th Apr 2005, 2:32am

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DigiSm89

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xcession, the flame looks like it's spazzing. razz

Perhaps randomize the morphing or w/e effect you're using. It looks a bit odd.

DigiSm89
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 2:20pm

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Vault FX

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Hi, i was just wondering if anyone knew how i could create a decent site in Front Page, i am going to use Xcession's logo, if that is ok with him?

Xcession - How much is the fee for the logo?

Thanks guys for all your help smile

dalder
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 3:29pm

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DigiSm89

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Decent site and frontpage don't go together. smile

Actually, it doesn't go well together with almost any WYSIWYG editor.

I think you should use notepad and learn some html.

DigiSm89
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 3:50pm

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Madmanmatty

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Frontpage isn't too bad. You can design a decent site on an editor. HTML is preferrable, and customizing a design in photoshop is ideal, but really, it is possible to make a decent site in Frontpage.
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 4:05pm

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Vault FX

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Hi guys, I have been playing around with Front Page and here is what i came up with, i really think this looks cool smile



What do you think, it isn't finished yet, i just wanted to know what you guys thought?

dalder
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 5:25pm

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Deepcoiler

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That looks good dalder. Way better then when I used to use frontpage smile
If you have Photoshop as matty said you should certainly use it for buttons and stuff.
Posted: Sat, 9th Apr 2005, 5:35pm

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Vault FX

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Deepcoiler - Thanks for the feedback, i will look into using photoshop for the buttons in the future once i've learnt a bit more of frontpage, But i think it looks really good at the moment smile i only created it by using the wizard to create a corporate website and changes a few things and this is what i came up with, lol, i think i am going to stick with this one at the moment as i think it is really good, i am just going through and transfering the info form my old site into the new one and you know up date bits and change things, lol. But i really do like this new design, and i'm glad you like it.

Thanks for the feedback

dalder
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 2:01am

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DigiSm89

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I feel kinda bad telling you this, but...it isn't really that great. Movie sites don't look too professional as you're trying to make them and I am still a bit baffled at whether you make movies or you make fire effects and sell them for movies. Either way, a corporate template doesn't express your image very well.

On the lightner note, it is 10x better than your original site layout and you should be very proud of that! Excellent work. Keep it going.

My $0.05.

DigiSm89
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 4:39am

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Madmanmatty

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I definately like it better than the old site! smile

I think it needs a bit more pizzaz... a bit more color... try to come up with a color sceme that goes with your logo (white background, orange and red header text, black regular text). Check out other (similarly themed)sites through google to get a good feel for what kinds of things your website will need. I'm also in the process of creating a website, and I'm doing a lot of research before I finish. It's hard work, but it pays off in the end.

I think the understated "firelight" and "Movies" makes it look forced. Perhaps make it all small caps, or just put it regularly in the text. The logo is great, but on the text, it looks a little out of place. Also, there isn't too much need to mention the company over and over... use the space more constructively. People will sometimes only read two or three sentances and leave, so you have to hook them in quick. Also, I think the text is a little vague, or worded a little wierd. It just doesn't leave an impression on me... I'm not sure I can tell you how to fix it, but try changing it a bit!

Photoshop the buttons, and perhaps even a nice toolbar at the top... here some GREAT tutorials:
http://www.good-tutorials.com/tutorials/5

Alright. That's it for now! Keep it up!

-Logan-
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 6:01am

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ben3308

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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=alongside
Alongside is one word, and it means with, so using the word 'with' after it is unecessary. C'mon, you're trying to sell stuff on this website, don't be sloppy; put some thought into what you write.
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 2:55pm

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Vault FX

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Hi, i have changed the colour of some of the text for certain headings smile so here is a new shot of it



What do you think i am currently working on some new buttons, but i not sure what colours to do?

Thanks for all the tips

dalder
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 3:42pm

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Madmanmatty

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I would probably suggest some sort of redish glossy tint... it would be nice to have them animate, just a shimmer of white gloss or something. Check out the turotial site I gave you. It would make sense considering you do graphic animations to have some sort of standard animation on the page itself. But then again, that's my take... maybe it would be more professional to have simple designs, but I think the nature of your business should be CLEARLY conveyed on your main page.

Also, your mission statement is a little clumsy.
Provide or Create: that's almost redundant..
That we can: Sounds unconfident. You need to sound confident to sell.
Any project that we do: sounds immature.

Try something more like this (if it suits you):
Our mission is to provide the best visual and special effects for (independant?) film.

And maybe, if your specialization is "Fire" and "Light" effects, add that like this:
Our mission is to provide the best fire and light effects in independant cinema.

Something that is short, simple, concisely worded, and accuaratley describing your aims, goals and ambitions.

As for the buttons: Don't have a button for software used. Have an "About" section, and list your software there. Other than that, it's looking SWEET. Keep it up, DUDE.

-Logan-
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 6:19pm

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Vault FX

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Hi, here is anoher shot of my site, with the suggested improvements that have recently been made smile



What do you think?

Thnaks for all the tips & advise smile

dalder
Posted: Sun, 10th Apr 2005, 6:33pm

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Madmanmatty

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Rating: +1

I put the (independant?) in brackets because I didn't know if you are planning on doing independant films. If you are, just take out the brackets and question mark.

The buttons are nice. I like the glow at the bottom... maybe if you put a little mouse-over animation, have them flicker slightly, like the fire is casting a glow (but not so much you can't clearly see the words)

The first line:
"Welcome to the firelight Movies website, please feel free to look around"
Is too homey. The "website" is redundant, because if you are there, you know where you are. Either cut off the "please feel free to look around" or put your company "tagline". I don't know if you have one, but examples would be (and don't use these, they're going to be stupid):
Welcome to firelight movies: Making movies since 1345
Welcome to firelight Movies: Burning stuff in the privacy of our own homes
Welcome to firelight movies: Graphics shmafics, let's light some fires
Welcome to firelight movies: Taking the "funda" out of "fundamental"
Welcome to firelight movies: Taking the "piss" out of "pisstachio"
Welcome to firelight movies: We do fire.
Welcome to firelight movies: Tim Alder likes fire. Alot.

something along the lines of a catchy phrase that describes your purpose in life (as a company) and makes people want to keep reading.
The look of the site is very nice though.
Keep on truckin'

-Logan-
Welcome to firelight movies:
Posted: Tue, 12th Apr 2005, 10:08pm

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Xcession

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Rating: +2

720x576 divX
Posted: Wed, 13th Apr 2005, 3:38am

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Gnome326

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I personally like having my links cast shawdows when you scroll over them, creates a nice basic image, but still looks pretty nice, and proffessional. It helps to look at other people's sites, and creat your own idea. One of the websites I'm basing my dad's website off of is Pixars. It's really simple, but looks really nice. It would be extremely easy for you to create if you have Macromedia Studio MX.
Posted: Wed, 13th Apr 2005, 5:47pm

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Vault FX

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WOW, Thanks for that Xcession i really like that smile i really like the way you have used the "i" as the match, lol, i think it is genius, lol smile, what do u want me to do about fees?

Thanks again smile

dalder
Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2005, 12:52pm

Post 108 of 114

Vault FX

Force: 2550 | Joined: 30th May 2003 | Posts: 602

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Hi All, I thought i would just let you all know that the new site is up and running smile

I hope you all like it smile I really like it smile

Thanks for all your help guys

dalder
Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2005, 6:08pm

Post 109 of 114

Madmanmatty

Force: 368 | Joined: 17th Mar 2003 | Posts: 372

FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

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clap clap clap clap clap
Very nice.

Two points to mention:
1) The buttons load a little slow and I have high speed... Just something to think about, as I'm not sure how to fix that... heard something about preloading...
2) The film projects page is a little TOO professional.. lol.... it's ok to say "we"... you don't have to always refer to yourself in the third person!!!


That's about it.. the rest is fantastic. Great job, dude!!

-Logan-
Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2005, 10:05pm

Post 110 of 114

Vault FX

Force: 2550 | Joined: 30th May 2003 | Posts: 602

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

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Hi, I'm gald you like the site smile, Thanks for the pointers, i will try and look into them smile

Thanks for the feedback

dalder
Posted: Fri, 22nd Apr 2005, 10:08pm

Post 111 of 114

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

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I don't like the gel buttons things on the site, looks like a preset,even if it isn't, I say it should be more toony like the logo Xcession nicely made. If you know anything about creating cool vector graphics, you should re-giveitago. And uh, the copyright stuff at the bottom should be centered IMO. Otherwise, very nice.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Apr 2005, 4:08pm

Post 112 of 114

Vault FX

Force: 2550 | Joined: 30th May 2003 | Posts: 602

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

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I am looking into changing the buttons, but, i'm not sure how to create vector looking buttons so that they go with the logo

dalder
Posted: Sun, 24th Apr 2005, 3:42am

Post 113 of 114

Madmanmatty

Force: 368 | Joined: 17th Mar 2003 | Posts: 372

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Maybe try having them white with a red glaze/gloss?
Or better yet... orange.
Posted: Sun, 24th Apr 2005, 4:10am

Post 114 of 114

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

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Madmanmatty wrote:

Maybe try having them white with a red glaze/gloss?
Or better yet... orange.
Yeah, orange would be better in my opinion, with a more muted gloss.