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How can I get a movie look in vegas 5

Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 4:19am

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GuitarsRule89

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How can I take raw footage from my camera and edit it in vegas to have a movie look. Any tutorials?
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 4:36am

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Magic_man12

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many of them

i think 1000 people have asked this question....

use the search


in the mean time start by cranking up the contrast a bit



-MAGIC
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 5:22am

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SPCDixon

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http://www.hollywoodindustry.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=22424

I just found this tonight. its for Vegas 4 but it may help
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 6:48am

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Redhawksrymmer

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I think Vegas 6 (to be released on monday the 18th) should have some great tools for this.
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 10:53am

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Bryan M Block

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Try the forums at www.creativecow.net or VASST (all things Vegas)
http://www.vasst.com/login.htm

IMO thouugh, good lighting and color saturation are the best things you can do. De-interlacing, color correction, motion blur and all that only work if they are used in very subtle ways to enhance well framed, well shot footage.

Douglas Spotted Eagle has written tons of stuff on Vegas and published the VEGAS editing books. He posts regularly at the VASST forums and the http://www.dmnforums.com/htm/homeset.htm DMN forums where he is a moderator. Vegas 5 came with "Movie looks" plug in from Magic Bullet to help you on your way. A letterbox matte also enhances the illusion.
I just upgraded to ACID pro 5 and Sound FOrge 8 (I've never had a FULL version of Sound Forge before! So this is a real treat) So I probably won;t be able to afford the upgrade to Vegas 6, but I AM curious!! What could it do? Rotoscoping and 2D animation with a full set of paint tools?!? Built in text effects? (beveling and embosing and color gradient fills? Metallic textures?) A better rendering/real-time preview engine? (Vegas already has AWESOME preview and audio and everything else....) so what will it have!?

smile
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 2:14pm

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pboniface

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hmmm, intrigues me this question does..

It's asked so many times. and yet... what is a "movie look"

The Matrix... has a different look from Saving private ryan... which in turn has a different look from Spy Game... ?

Gladiator... looks nothing like The wizard of Oz !
Star Wars, looks nothing like Gone with the wind !!..

When you ask for a movie look... what movie do you want to look like...

Magic Bullet movie looks has presets for most of the above, and is tweakable for any others.. DigiEffects Cinelooks plug in for After Effects will add the grain from most film types, from Kodachrome to Fuji, from 8mm to 32mm

But if you can afford After Effects and these plug-ins.. then why do you use Alam DV.. (no offense to the CSB guys)

I can only hazard a guess that Chromanator will do some of this... and hopefully allow us to code up plug-ins and presets that can create any that dont exist.. but like I say, i am only guesing and hoping..

(edit... yes.. oops, I meant Digigrade.. but its saturday, and Ive been on the margaritas since lunchtime)..

Last edited Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 8:53pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 4:28pm

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PhLogan

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I assume you mean Digigrade, not Chromanator.
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 8:38pm

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Bryan M Block

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pboniface wrote:

hmmm, intrigues me this question does..

It's asked so many times. and yet... what is a "movie look"

The Matrix... has a different look from Saving private ryan... which in turn has a different look from Spy Game... ?

Gladiator... looks nothing like The wizard of Oz !
Star Wars, looks nothing like Gone with the wind !!..

When you ask for a movie look... what movie do you want to look like...

Magic Bullet movie looks has presets for most of the above, and is tweakable for any others.. DigiEffects Cinelooks plug in for After Effects will add the grain from most film types, from Kodachrome to Fuji, from 8mm to 32mm

But if you can afford After Effects and these plug-ins.. then why do you use Alam DV.. (no offense to the CSB guys)

I can only hazard a guess that Chromanator will do some of this... and hopefully allow us to code up plug-ins and presets that can create any that dont exist.. but like I say, i am only guesing and hoping..
I think what most people are looking for is the motion aspect of film vs. what video looks like.
Again though, IMO good lighting and framing of shots will enhance the illusion better than most processes. To me, many of the processes still look like procesed video, not film, unless they are done professionally by trained artists that know just how much to apply. De-interlacing, color grading, and motion blur are three of the things that usually happen to make video look more "film-like" regardless of which ultimate "look" (Wizard of Oz or Matrix or whatever) you are going for. But what I found was that adding a subtle "glow" filter also gives a bit of a softer quality to things and is a part of many "film look" packages. Try adding that.

And of course, the letterbox matte also helps. But I think in general it is the motion and clarity of video which differs from the softer look and more indistinct motion of 24p films that people are looking for. For the record many modern filmstocks don't have much visible grain, so IMO, that actually becomes irrelevant in many ways.

Try detinterlacing
Color correction or movie looks or other filtering
extremely subtle glow
and extremely subtle motion blurring

in that order.
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2005, 11:24pm

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Atom

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GuitarsRule89 wrote:

How can I take raw footage from my camera and edit it in vegas to have a movie look. Any tutorials?
The "movie look" greatly varies from film to film. However, it has much to do with 3 things:
The camera
The lighting
The grading. (which can be done with apps like Magic Bullet and DigiGrade)

Most movies nowadays use Panavision cameras, which gives most of the "movie" look. However, in movies like "Charlies Angels" and most Michael Bay movies, the 'look' is acheived by turning the exposure and saturation levels way up.

What everyone else said, pretty much. smile
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 1:31am

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Serpent

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Magic Bullet isn't an app.
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 11:46am

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TommyB

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Magic Bullet editors plugin for Vegas 4 is amazing... although I usually modify their presets to acheive my desired look.

This thread is skating on thin ice considering there's Digigrade.
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 4:12pm

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Bryce007

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I doubt they are going to shut this down Just because of someone discussing other options than digigrade. Also, magic bullet editors is for vegas 5, Not 4. And im guessing he is referring to 24p or 30p look/movment, and the best way to do that is with revision fx fieldskit
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 4:32pm

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Mellifluous

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DigiGrade probably isn't coming out for a while. As a recent News topic emphasised, DigiGrade will only be produced once AlamDV3 & the final version of Chromanator have been released. This being so, I think it's reasonable to explore solutions if you're in need of grading tools immediately. The preset solutions such as MagicBullet are expensive though, & DigiGrade will undoubtedly be a cheaper & equivalent alternative, IF & WHEN it's released. I think it's probably important to stress this in posts about DigiGrade, otherwise people may get confused & think it's been released or is imminent.

For the time being, if you don't want to fork out lots of cash for MB, then it's worthwhile experimenting with the settings in Vegas, things like colour, hue, saturation, contrast, etc.
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 5:46pm

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Bryan M Block

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Hello again.
First of all Magic Bullet is a plug in that is available for SEVERAL different editing packages including Avid and Premiere and Final Cut Pro as well as Vegas- and it should work in Vegas 4 or 5!
Check out the actual facts, and not a bunch of misinformation at:
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/mbforeditors.html

One other package that is pretty affordable that I doenloaded a demo of and gave a try was DVFILM MAKER:

http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/

It actually looked pretty darn good overall, but as I've stated before, you can probably get a similar look in your NLE by just applying selected effects (de-interlacing, color curves, glow, motion blur, etc...) But if you want an all in one solution that works on your entire rendered AVI or Quicktime movie then it may be worth a look, it also does something nice by converting true 16:9 footage to a letterbox 4:3. It's only 149.00 USD.

Use of any of these increases rendering time to ungodly amounts sometimes smile

Another Vegas solution is called "celluloid" and has been developed by some other Vegas users (Sonic Foundry and Sony have continued to make a "plug in developers kit" available to programmers that wish to support the Vegas platform and I think that ROCKS!)

Try searching the VASST forum links I posted in previous posts for the underground world of cool plugins and scriptng for Vegas (scripts are bundles of commands that can be stored as presets and then used as functions- again, this is one of those thngs that makes Vegas so cool!)
Also check into Satish's FREE Vegas packages such as "Wax" which is aa rotoscoping and particle engine tool that does a bunch of other stuff too. Satish is a programmer that
offers these for Free and yet still supports them as if you were a paying customer.
His company is:
www.debugmode.com

I hope FXHome doesn't feel threatened by these posts. Personally I would still like to upgrade to Alam DV3 (been waiting for a LONNNNNNNNG time now smile ) and I think that providing a forum for open discussion is great.

B
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 8:28pm

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cinemafreak

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1. Convert to 24 frames per second.

2. add a little saturation using the color correction tool

3. add contrast using the brightness/contrast tool.

That should about do it. Some depth of field would also be good and it can be done with masking, but it may turn out to be tedios. Depending on whether or not your camera has a manual focus ring will determine whether this is needed. If you can do manual focus you can do depth of field on set.
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 8:40pm

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Mellifluous

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Don't convert to 24fps unless you actually plan on transferring it to film (which is unlikely since this is very expensive)

To elaborate on the depth of field thing, DoF does give your video a filmic look, e.g. if you have a subject or person near the camera & something further away is blurred. If you look in TV shows etc I'm sure you'd notice it
http://weblog.bergersen.net/depth-of-field.jpg
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 9:05pm

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Bryan M Block

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Mellifluous wrote:

Don't convert to 24fps unless you actually plan on transferring it to film (which is unlikely since this is very expensive)

To elaborate on the depth of field thing, DoF does give your video a filmic look, e.g. if you have a subject or person near the camera & something further away is blurred. If you look in TV shows etc I'm sure you'd notice it
http://weblog.bergersen.net/depth-of-field.jpg
I think it's PK top convert to 24p as long as you follow these steps:

1. convert your RAW footage to 24p
2. edit in a 24p project

If you do that, you should be OK- if not, you run the risk of your edits being 'converted' in the transfer process from 29.97 fps to 24fps (NTSC)-
what I mean by that is fades and wipes and cuts can become something else when frames are dropped during conversion to an edited piece due to frame blending. If you convert your raw footage youshould be OK, but honestly I think you are going to spend alot of wasted time on that. deinterlacing 29.97 or any of the other methods should give you a nice look. Video is video.
Posted: Sun, 17th Apr 2005, 9:19pm

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hatsoff2halford

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How do you de-interlace your footage? When you export it from your NLE or what?

Logan
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 1:24am

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cinemafreak

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Mellifluous wrote:

Don't convert to 24fps unless you actually plan on transferring it to film (which is unlikely since this is very expensive)

To elaborate on the depth of field thing, DoF does give your video a filmic look, e.g. if you have a subject or person near the camera & something further away is blurred. If you look in TV shows etc I'm sure you'd notice it
http://weblog.bergersen.net/depth-of-field.jpg
eek What are you talking about? Film is shot at 24fps and if you convert to 24fps your video will look more like film.

How do you de-interlace your footage? When you export it from your NLE or what?
In Vegas you look under options, click "blend fields" and then render and save as. The next time you bring up that clip it will be deinterlaced.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 2:26am

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Serpent

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Bryan M Block wrote:

I hope FXHome doesn't feel threatened by these posts. Personally I would still like to upgrade to Alam DV3 (been waiting for a LONNNNNNNNG time now smile ) and I think that providing a forum for open discussion is great.

B
I hardly call it an upgrade... Alam DV2 composited premade effects onto video, Alam DV3 is based off of generators in wich you create your own effects etc, including a complex particle system.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 8:53am

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CurtinParloe

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check this thread.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 1:11pm

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pboniface

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cinemafreak wrote:



eek What are you talking about? Film is shot at 24fps and if you convert to 24fps your video will look more like film.

Film is projected at 24FPS.. what it is shot at is completely down to the cinematographer and director... although.. yes, usually 24 FPS..

If you are using 30fps NTSC then you may notice a little difference.. but without all of the other stuff (colour correction etc...) it will still look like video.

If you are using PAL at 25 fps.. then converting it to 24 fps would be completely unnoticable to the human eye....

basically, what Melli is getting at is... unless you are going to convert to film, then you are wasting your time... time that could be better spent doing many other things... including but not limited to... colour correction, prop making, costume making, script writing... 3d rendering.. etc... smile
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 8:51pm

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Mellifluous

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Thank you. Converting to 24fps won't make it look more like film...it will look exactly the same. A film look is only got from numerous lenses, filters or in our cases, plugins & edit adjustments.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 9:13pm

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TommyB

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I doubt they are going to shut this down Just because of someone discussing other options than digigrade. Also, magic bullet editors is for vegas 5, Not 4. And im guessing he is referring to 24p or 30p look/movment, and the best way to do that is with revision fx fieldskit


It is fully supported by Vegas 4.

Vegas 4 also has the options to convert your footage to 24p. No need for expensive plugins.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 9:54pm

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cinemafreak

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Mellifluous wrote:

Thank you. Converting to 24fps won't make it look more like film...it will look exactly the same. A film look is only got from numerous lenses, filters or in our cases, plugins & edit adjustments.
This is not true. I converted a 30 fps clip to a 24 fps clip and it DID look very different. It had the "dreamy" feel to it, just like a movie would, as opposed to the live action news/sports feel to it. It also makes it look less like a home video.

If you still don't believe me, ask Douglas Spotted Eagle, a professional vidoegrapher who mentioned it in his book on Vegas 5.
Posted: Mon, 18th Apr 2005, 10:21pm

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Atom

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So, now that this question has pretty much been answered,






Who's up for a midnight taco run?
Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005, 12:48am

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hypnotic01

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Check out this link. A lot of this has been stated elsewhere, but still another good resource.


http://www.b-independent.com/production/filmlook.htm
Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005, 1:32am

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Bryan M Block

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cinemafreak wrote:

Mellifluous wrote:

Thank you. Converting to 24fps won't make it look more like film...it will look exactly the same. A film look is only got from numerous lenses, filters or in our cases, plugins & edit adjustments.
This is not true. I converted a 30 fps clip to a 24 fps clip and it DID look very different. It had the "dreamy" feel to it, just like a movie would, as opposed to the live action news/sports feel to it. It also makes it look less like a home video.

If you still don't believe me, ask Douglas Spotted Eagle, a professional vidoegrapher who mentioned it in his book on Vegas 5.
I've corresponded with Spot before on other forums and you are absolutely right. converting your video to 24p looks vastly different, I've done it before as well along with deinterlacing and all the other tricks.
But it still looked like video to me, only "processed" and in fact ina way almost distracting. But as I have stated in above posts, if you are going to do it- I suggest converting ALL OF YOUR RAW FOOTAGE and editing in a 24p project. If you don't you will get strange edit things happening.

Good luck.


Ps. There is also the "celluloid" plugins for Vegas that are only 24.99 USD!
They do all the tricks in a "one stop" process, so you don;t have to do multiple renders- supposedly Vegas 6 (released today) has rendering times up to 60% FASTER !!!! Un-believable.
Chck Spots article at his website.

B
Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005, 7:01am

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Mellifluous

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Doesn't look any different to me... unsure
Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005, 3:17pm

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Bryan M Block

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Mellifluous wrote:

Doesn't look any different to me... unsure
Well we aren't talking about image QUALITY or anything like that. It's about the MOTION. If you are simply looking at someone sitting there talking, yeah- you won't notice a difference at all. But if someone is moving around a bit you should see quite a difference!

Unless you are already editing in PAL which is 25fps anyway. 24 fps doesn't look really any different, so if your eye is used to PAL, then it won't do you much good. I think that was stated in the earlier posts by someone as well.

B
Posted: Tue, 19th Apr 2005, 9:59pm

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Bryce007

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Didn't know that MB editors is now compatible with vegas 4.

I think the best method of making video look more like film is all in the lighting and camera movement. Color grading and 30p conversion are secondary to those. However, Progessive conversion Does go a long way to creating the proper effect. Ive shot some footage lit properly, using camera moves that were smooth and had some "weight" to them (remember, film camera cant just be swung around like tiny dv cams), then graded and converted to 30 fps progressive, and the final result could easily be taken as film. remember though, if you are Really trying to make it look like film, your definately going to need a 3ccd cam.