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Explosions for battle scenes

Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 2:32pm

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Kristian

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Hi, I am about to make a large battle scene for a film I'm making. But I need some good realistic, easy-to-make bombs. When I say bombs I don't mean bombs that can get me and my friend bolw up. neutral.

I want some recipies for bombs that can make dirt and grass blow up. And generate some smoke as well. (Maybe something like the explosion in Ghost Soldiers)

And I might need some recipies for minor explosions like gunshot impacts.

If anybody has seen Cameron Duncan's chapter on the Return of the King extended version, then you know what I'm talking about! wink

I have seen you guys talk about something like "the spielberg method" what is that?? And what is a 2x4?

Thanks in advance! wink
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 3:15pm

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Zea

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Cant you just use stock footage? Its safer.


-Z
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 3:18pm

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Erfa

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Zea wrote:

Cant you just use stock footage? Its safer.
I think so too. The explosion in Ghost Soldiers is stock footage.
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 3:32pm

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Pooky

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I'm also looking for this, for a WWII movie I'll eventually make. I'll still use stock footage, but for when the explosions are closer, I want to do it live for many reasons that have to do with realism.
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 3:35pm

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Nagual

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If you want to make smoke, there are ways to create large amounts of smoke by burning green / wet plants, like moss and leaves. There shouldn't be much fire and you'll have plenty of smoke.

If all you want is dirt and leaves being 'blown up' then I'd get a long plank of wood, stick a couple of bricks underneath, near an end, and a bucket of leaves and dirt, nailed to the top so only the leaves etc come out, when your mate jumps on the other end... razz practice it so it stays out of view, and get your timeing right.

NOTE, any use of fire or any burning of stuff, should only be undertaken

1)If you know what you are doing.
2)You own the property you are burning on.
3)You have fire fighting equipment on hand, and you know how to use it.
4)You have absolutely no way of doing it any other way.

Even if you do tick all 4 checks, I'd still favour trying to find a differnt method.
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 3:59pm

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LilCaesars

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Yeah like Nagual said the wood is a very good way to get explosions. If you look at the Saving Private Ryan special features Speilberg explains how he made all of his war films when he was a little kid. They would take a board with a rock in the middle and pile dirt on one side. When the actor ran past he would step on the board and fall over. To the camera it looked like he had gotten shot of hit by an explosion and been killed.
(Also if you are actually going to use fire or real bombs make sure if it is on grass to wet all of the grass within 3 feet of the explosion. Trust me you don't want to get caught with a wildfire on your hands.)
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 4:58pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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For smoke you could by smoke in a can, which you then spray. At least you can do this in Sweden. It looks really cool, and it's completely safe. I used it for my new movie for steam coming off a pipe in a wall.
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 5:17pm

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sk8npirate

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Well I am planning on filming some mud hit/dirt explosion stock footage. If I do I will put it online.
Posted: Sat, 6th Aug 2005, 5:27pm

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Jrad

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Buy a fire extinguisher and hook the nozzle up to a box. Fill the box up with dirt and debris. Pull the lever then POOF.
Posted: Sun, 7th Aug 2005, 9:31am

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Redhawksrymmer

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Big Kahuna wrote:

Buy a fire extinguisher and hook the nozzle up to a box. Fill the box up with dirt and debris. Pull the lever then POOF.
That sounds safe. smile
Posted: Sun, 7th Aug 2005, 6:52pm

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Madmanmatty

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Here's what we did for water bombs in MB3K. With a little tweaking you can make it work for dirt.

Buy several pieces of PVC piping. Seal it and have an air nozzel in one end and a "spout" on the other. Connect plastic tubing to the "spout". Place an air-pressure-gauge somewhere on the main body (preferrably close to the intake nozzel.

We used several pipes to make a "U" shape for the tubing, the bottom section of the "U" being the export hole for the tube, and one of the ends being an intake nozzel.

At the end of the plastic tubing make a spot for attachments. Put a twist-seal on the connection between the pvc air tank and the pipe. Twist to release air into:

Some attachments we had:
-PvC pipe with small drilled holes to sink underwater and make a water bomb.
-Funnel to be filled with leaves and dirt for dirt explosions.
-DO NOT TRY: Gasoline in tube and a nozzel on the end to spray a large fireball, with a gas lighter on the end. DONT TRY THAT. EVER. It's unsafe.

Rent a generator and fill the tube up with air pressure. You will need to ask someone what pressure corresponds with the amount of tubing you have. You'll need the volume of the tubes. Ask your local science teacher for a formula.
Fill the tubes up with air to the proper capacity and release the valve to send the air rushing out.

NOTE: Science teachers generally use something called a "Potato Cannon". Confer with an adult who knows things about pressure and math to help you. Don't do it alone, and don't use the real explosions.
Posted: Tue, 9th Aug 2005, 4:33pm

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CurtinParloe

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Look at this site for safe bullet hits and blood spurts. The blood spurt technique (using compressed air and fake blood) can easily be modified to create a small but safe ground hit.

For a big explosion, use stock footage or a qualified pyrotechnician. Anything else is dangerous, irresponsible, and possibly illegal.
Posted: Wed, 10th Aug 2005, 1:35am

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Sniped

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go to your local terrorist faction and buy loads of c4 explosive
Posted: Fri, 12th Aug 2005, 9:53pm

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viper3139

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Hey Madmanmatty that sounds really cool is there a way you could show us a diagram I had a hard time understandind the directions. Thanks.
Posted: Sat, 13th Aug 2005, 1:25pm

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Arktic

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Rating: +2

Guys -

I've been watching this thread, and several times have had to delete various posts that contained unsafe information.

Let me make this nice and clear:

DO NOT PLAY WITH FIRE OR EXPLOSIVES UNLESS YOU'RE QUALIFIED TO DO SO!

And, no, having read a few home-made explosive recipes on the internet does NOT make you qualified!

Furthermore, anyone posting links to such material should really think long and hard about what they're doing - this is a forum with many younger members, and encouraging them to try and make explosives is an incredibly irresponsible and dangerous thing to do.

I'd also like to point out that if you get caught making home-made explosives, in today's political climate, you're likely to get punished very severely under new anti-terrorism legislation - creating bombs is a crime, and the police will probably think that your film is just a coverstory.

So, just to recap incase you haven't got it:

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES POST LINKS TO SITES WITH 'RECIPES' FOR EXPLOSIVES ON THIS SITE. Doing so will result in action being taken by myself or one of the other moderators.

Arktic.
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 2:35pm

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Parker Skiba

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**************************************************************

Last edited Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:06pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 2:47pm

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Pooky

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Freedom of speech? This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about safety! You probably don't know what this is yet, but you'll understand eventually when you grow up. I hope confused

If you were one of the people that posted, thanks for trying to help, but as Arktic said, internet bomb recipes are not to be trusted... I think the tons of "kids make bomb and it blows up in their face" videos on the net show that.
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 2:55pm

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jotoki

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Arktic is spot on. Freedom of speech is one thing but if it puts others at risk as a result then only a fool would fail to see the danger in that. You should ask yourself this, what pisses you off more, your post being deleted or finding out some kid was killed cos you showed him how to make the bomb that killed him. If the answer is the former then you need to seek professional help.

The safest way to do the dirt being thrown up thing is with either the suggested plank (or similar methods of mechanical deployment) or a better way is the compressed air method. Both techniques are used in Hollywood so if they're good enough for them....hey you know that rest. Safety of cast crew and the public should be your top priority so using explosives of any kind is just not an option unless you're a professional. You dont need to be an expert or even have any explosives experience to know that they are dangerous in the extreme. So you have two options, do things the safe responsible professional way or try homemade explosives and we can read about you in the darwin awards next year
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 2:59pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Parker Skiba wrote:

you have delete so many posts that it, i speak for everyone who got deleted, ************ me offfff!!!!!!!! you can delete this but you cant delete freedom of speach
I don't think you speak for anyone but yourself, tragically you've misunderstood how the internet actually works so I'll enlighten you...

Freedom of speech is null when you're posting on a forum, the forum is like a big billboard owned by the company in the sense that people are more or less free to post what they want, though if a moderator deems something posted as unsuitable then it's simply removed, the billboard is not public property afterall. This leaves you with no grounds to attack moderators for deleting posts which are potentially dangerous to other users. As a moderator myself I completely agree with Arktic's choice, we as moderators simply won't be responsible for kids blowing themselves up trying to make explosives, especially when we're moderating for a company who make safer alternatives.

If you wish to continue on with your current blasts of immaturity, then your posts will inevitably end up getting deleted. Wise up a little, it's not a good idea to attack the people that control your every action on these forums afterall wink

Now, back on topic.
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 2:59pm

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Arktic

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These guys are right - this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It's about ensuring the safety of the members of our community.

And here, freedom of speech is a privalege, not a right. If you're stupid enough to abuse that privalege, it will be taken away from you.

Arktic.
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 3:25pm

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devilskater

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"You can take our trees, but you CANT take our freedom"
quotet from Ali G

biggrin

Cheers,
devilskater
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 3:37pm

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Fill

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Umm....

About freedom of speech...In someways that doesnt apply in Britain(NOTHGING AGAINST IT)...just thought i would let you know because the people who design Effects Lab The old Alam Projects and Chromanator are BRITISH(correct me if im wrong) even the website designer is from britain so really...you have no room to speak because the forums are...well pretty much made British..I better shutup...I think im so tired i can think str8....sad

(please dont erease this one Arktic...wink)

Last edited Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 4:10pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 3:54pm

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Pooky

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Er.. what? No freedom of speech in the UK? What is this propaganda? neutral
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 4:07pm

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Fill

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Well...

I did say correct me if im wrong...
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 4:07pm

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malone

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Actually, like most democratic countries, we have freedom of speech.

We've already wasted enough posts on this discussion, but I think I should point out that freedom of speech only applies to your government trying to censor you. Last time I checked we wern't sitting in a big white house, but feel free to vote us in next time around smile
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 4:14pm

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Fill

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I agree...I think...or can i?...cos im so darn tired...but how would i think im tir-

Never mind that...Im going to take a nap...well any way we should lay off this topic for a few years....-.-

Then come back and laugh at our sleves for how stupid this arguement really was...even though there were some pretty good points...

Oh yeah Malone...I downloaded that Babylon 5 I've found her game...IT ROCKS!!! Thanks for introducing me to it!
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 4:24pm

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malone

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Babylon 5? I don't think I've ever watched a single episode of that. It pretty sure it wasnt me that introduced you smile
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 6:05pm

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Bugclimber

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swg33k wrote:

I agree...I think...or can i?...cos im so darn tired...but how would i think im tir-

Never mind that...Im going to take a nap...well any way we should lay off this topic for a few years....-.-

Then come back and laugh at our sleves for how stupid this arguement really was...even though there were some pretty good points...

Oh yeah Malone...I downloaded that Babylon 5 I've found her game...IT ROCKS!!! Thanks for introducing me to it!
Um.... lol That was...... an amazing post
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 6:46pm

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Fill

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Sorry Malone...For some reason i thought it was you...-.- hmmmm...I was chatting with people on Fxhome chat and someone recommended it to me.....

um...Thanks for the positive feedback on my last post Yamfanny....i think...
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 6:47pm

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Bugclimber

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The key to my last post's real meaning was this:


lol
Posted: Fri, 19th Aug 2005, 6:54pm

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Fill

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Yamfanny wrote:

The key to my last post's real meaning was this:


lol


Umm....Right...well...it seems this topic has been abandoned and we can just say whatever!

Whatever!!
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:03pm

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Parker Skiba

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ok. Fine some of you have a good point. BUT!!! most kids over 12 know what a match is, And most kids under 12 don't even know how to use these programs and ok fine if its about safety then you can delete my "unsafe" thread. But look at this http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19891

1. The people ordering would have to be over 18
2. If the parents bought it for the U18 person then they were taking the risk of buying for them in the first place
3. All of these are safe in the right hands

So you can see why arctic kind of annoys me.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:09pm

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er-no

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Parker Skiba wrote:

ok. Fine some of you have a good point. BUT!!! most kids over 12 know what a match is, And most kids under 12 don't even know how to use these programs and ok fine if its about safety then you can delete my "unsafe" thread. But look at this http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19891

1. The people ordering would have to be over 18
2. If the parents bought it for the U18 person then they were taking the risk of buying for them in the first place
3. All of these are safe in the right hands

So you can see why arctic kind of annoys me.
Because your a child and someone talking direct sense wants to make you run to your room and 'omfg' slam your door?

But really now. Exploding anything is stupid. You'll break.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:18pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Parker Skiba wrote:

So you can see why arctic kind of annoys me.
It's spelt Arktic, with a K.

Your reaction to what is undeniably a post containing links to potentially dangerous information being deleted was still absolutely pathetic, you personally do not have the right level of maturity to be around anything explosive. Falling back onto any warnings you'd given won't really work because by putting those up although in a sense you may be protecting yourself from blame you can't rely on everyone heeding your warnings and being adult about it. Having such content on a site read by people of all ages and levels of maturity which provides means to create potentially lethal explosives is not something seen as desirable by any of the forum mods here, and that's why it was deleted.

This is not a topic that will be argued any further. Any form of potentially dangerous information will always be removed from these boards and at the least, highly criticised.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:23pm

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Parker Skiba

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Your a child. how the F*** would a child know how to build a prop rocket launcher on a batterie opperated igniton sequence (nichrome wire) then ignites the fuse wich ignites the chemical sending off sparks. Look, I know a fair shair about chemistry. You however probably are a teenager who every day checks these forums just to try and say something. Well i have something to say. From now on i am not going to be in the forums arguing over a pointless situation. ILL be making a film so STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:24pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Parker Skiba wrote:

Your a child. how the F*** would a child know how to build a prop rocket launcher on a batterie opperated igniton sequence (nichrome wire) then ignites the fuse wich ignites the chemical sending off sparks. Look, I know a fair shair about chemistry. You however probably are a teenager who every day checks these forums just to try and say something. Well i have something to say. From now on i am not going to be in the forums arguing over a pointless situation. ILL be making a film so STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Probably from after-school rocket club.

Off you go then!
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:36pm

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Simon K Jones

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Parker Skiba wrote:

Your a child. how the F*** would a child know how...(snip)....ILL be making a film so STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your maturity is self-evident.

Considering your reactions in this thread, explosions are the last thing you should be experimenting with, let alone instructing or providing anybody else.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:50pm

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jotoki

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well he's even more volatile than the stuff stuff on the links he was posting. He'll probably explode before his bombs do. wink
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 2:52pm

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Mellifluous

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/me nukes topic with grenade launcher

Seriously, it's been said before but I'll say it again - use EffectsLab, the Detonation Films stock footage, and the AlamDV 2 plugins...it's what they're for.

Looking at tutorials on the internet or even buying and using explosives without a) knowledge and b) an experienced supervisor present means you're at a strong risk of getting hurt.

In professional films, they use only the most experienced practical effects guys, take loads of safety precautions and they calculate precisely in preproduction where the explosives will go, the area that the explosions will affect, computer simulations etc.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005, 3:46pm

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er-no

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Most explosions (fire) are added to dry/dirt explosions that are filmed on the day.

Six weeks ago I was involved in helping rig and watch over the safety of a house exploding for BBC Production. It was interesting as the precautions carried out for the shoot were so dramatic that not much but the very week sugar-glass windows could have been hurt. When the final rig went off, it was pretty pathetic, but the smoke and illusion that can be created in post will really sell it.

Don't try anything that might hurt, you really don't want an injury that will damage your life. Believe me.