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Effects LAB & ALAMDV2

Posted: Fri, 2nd Sep 2005, 3:43am

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rdelavega

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Don't know how to say this politely but here it goes,

EffectsLab is not AlamDV's evolution its a totally different thing.
When I was told about an upgrade I really expected to see a bunch of new and astonishing plugins.

Bad marketing move - Just a thought.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Sep 2005, 4:53am

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Hendo

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rdelavega wrote:

When I was told about an upgrade I really expected to see a bunch of new and astonishing plugins.
I think some confusion can arise because, at first glance, some people may think that EffectsLab can only create 3 effects: lightsabers, gun muzzle flashes, and whatever that particle system thing does.

Instead, these are really 3 effect generators. They can dynamically create a wide variety of effects based on the parameters that you specify. By way of example, the Particle System can create effects like smoke, fire, blood, rain, explosions, and so on.

The power and creativity is with the user who has full control over all the options. The "downside", I guess, is that users currently need to configure these parameters themselves. But this will soon change when the announced preset-support arrives.

EffectsLab is currently in its public "Preview" release. More features are still being added, as can be observed here:
http://fxhome.com/effectslab/development.html

The preset support will give you quick access to pre-configured effects (like smoke, fire, blood, rain, explosions etc. for the Particle System).

Most of the AlamDV2 plugins can be generated dynamically by these 3 effect generators. The other plugins that cannot be dynamically generated (like a CG X-Wing) are still supported via stock media.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Sep 2005, 5:18am

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Serpent

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rdelavega wrote:

Don't know how to say this politely but here it goes,

EffectsLab is not AlamDV's evolution its a totally different thing.
When I was told about an upgrade I really expected to see a bunch of new and astonishing plugins.

Bad marketing move - Just a thought.
EffectsLab's stock footage feature is AlamDV2 on steroids. Stockfootage = plugins. If you knew anything about visual effects, you would be well aware of this. Then they added 3 different generetors in this preview release. Good job making another unintelligable Alam DV2>EffectsLab post. I don't see why you are still inside their old marketing scheme, which was to advertise the stock footage as "plugins." Making it sound like a entire effect. All it was was an image stream someone made in another program. Do some research before you bash something.

Here's a quick example. Please read and you will understand.

Here are some EffectLab plugins: http://detonationfilms.com Keying the black out of exploisons is what Plugin maker did, except you don't have to do anything excpet hit "import" and manipulate it however you want, including animation, scale changing, masking, color adjusting, and look adjusting using the grading tools. Then they are converting all the great plugins. Also, EL has freehand masking, so you can put explosions etc. behind people and buildings with multipoint precision, you cut around it. I am sorry but, this topic pisses me off, you need to understand that plugins are the same thing as stock footage, only different format. i can't stress it enough.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Sep 2005, 7:40pm

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Evman

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LOL

If you feel you're being cheated because you got a program 20 times better than the one advertised to you... wow... just wow...
Posted: Fri, 2nd Sep 2005, 9:11pm

Post 5 of 35

Fill

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WOW...dude...you really think AlamDV is better?!?!?!

thats the biggest load of it!
Psh...AlamDV could only use plugins taht were hard to find other than FXhome but now Effects LAb has stock footage...which means you can find it anywhere...and upcoming FXvault thats going to be the hive of stockfootage!

I've said stupid stuff before...but nothing can compare to what you just said...yes i thought Effects LAb was a little dissapointing at first then i got to useing it and my point of veiw widend and i saw it TRUE power...like someone said on an erlier post...

AndrewtheActorMan wrote:

The only limit to quality and effects is you.
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 2:05pm

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Simon K Jones

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Once the preset library system is in place I think a lot of this confusion will simply disappear. Expert users are already catered for, but for new users or those with limited time the preset system will enable them to use EffectsLab to its full potential.
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 5:14pm

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

rdelavega wrote:

EffectsLab is not AlamDV's evolution its a totally different thing.
It is a totally different thing, yes. A simple evolution of AlamDV would not have sufficed - we wanted to take it a lot further than that and take things into a whole new arena, hence the new name. However, at the same time we wanted to retain the core aspects of AlamDV: affordable price, ease-of-use and flexibility.

When I was told about an upgrade I really expected to see a bunch of new and astonishing plugins.
The three engines currently in the program can create hundreds of different effects, at vastly higher quality and of greater variety than AlamDV could ever dream of. In addition to this you still have access to the old AlamDV plugins, as well as a large variety of third party stock footage. Throw in various grading tools as well and it's a hugely more powerful program, even in its current preview state. Once the remaining features are in place this will be even more apparent.

EffectsLab DV can do everything AlamDV could do, as well as an awful lot more.

Bad marketing move - Just a thought.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'm afraid I don't quite see your logic in this case. smile
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 7:18pm

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ben3308

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I have to semi-agree.

While EffectsLab, yes, is far more powerful and superior, it lacks the simplicity of ADV2. I loooovvved ADV2 'cause I could get a movie out and done in 20 minutes, and do the effects in like 5. EffectsLab is different because, while far more powerful, it leaves so many options that one who wants simplicity becomes flabbergasted, and the casual 2 minute project in ADV2 becomes a 30 minute endeavor.
His complaint is understandable, if I want to do quick muzzle flashes on an action quickee, I know I'd use AlamDV. However lightsabers are another thing.... smile
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 7:42pm

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Pooky

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AlamDV stuck images onto video. Period.

It's called stock footage... and it's just one of EL's features.
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 8:23pm

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Simon K Jones

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ben3308 wrote:

While EffectsLab, yes, is far more powerful and superior, it lacks the simplicity of ADV2. I loooovvved ADV2 'cause I could get a movie out and done in 20 minutes, and do the effects in like 5.
Currently, you're correct. In terms of speed, EffectsLab can take a little longer than AlamDV2 at the moment, especially if you're not familiar with it. On the other hand, the results will certainly be of higher quality and variety (ie, it won't look like everyone else's work).

This will all change once the preset system is in place, of course. Once that is active, you'll be able to load up EL, click the muzzleflash engine and select the type of weapon you want, and that's that. All you have to do is position it on screen - exactly like good ol' AlamDV2, except you'll benefit from a slicker, more stable program. Plus, of course, you'll still have full control in case you do want to change an attribute.

There's also always the stock footage - if you convert your old AlamDV2 muzzleflash plugins to stock, you can import them into EL and use them pretty much exactly like a plugin, but benefiting from EL's extra control.
Posted: Mon, 5th Sep 2005, 11:22pm

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ben3308

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Sounds awesome. Can't wait.
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 12:02am

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Pooky

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Hehehe, for Ben, every milisecond counts.
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 4:30pm

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rdelavega

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I am not talking about particles or flashes I am talking about putting angel wings to a person or have an starship fly over. Tell me how to do that with EL...stock footage? from another site? at extra cost? - LOL!
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 4:32pm

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Simon K Jones

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No, use the old AlamDV2 plugins, as mentioned above.

For the kind of complex compositing you are talking about, however, Chromanator would be more appropriate, as well as a proper 3D program so that you can create and manipulate the elements properly.
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 8:18pm

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Pooky

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Sorry dude, you might think we're the evil ones but, being someone that's been in your position before, I have ot say you're the one that's mistaken here. You'll get it eventually, but the things you're talking about are to be done with a compositing application and a 3D program.
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 9:43pm

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Fill

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Besides...In a future to be quality of EL in the description it says it will be able to tie into Chromanator!! biggrin
Thats going to be great!
Really all you need are five things...

-A camera
-A greenscreen
-Chromanator
-Effects Lab
-and an Animation Program

those simple things and you can do potentially ANYTHING

I hope we have silenced your blasphemy!
And I REALLY hope Effects Lab works better for you...
Wait...acctually its you thats not working...so i have to say I hope you can work with Effects Lab...thats better...lol
Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2005, 9:57pm

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Serpent

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I know they're going to be great, but that is a bit of an exaggeration. You still need an NLE, motion graphics software, 3d modeling/animation packages, various plugins, Photo editing application, motion tracking stuff, and even more than that before you will be able to do "ANYTHING" you want.

Also, will Chromy 2 support motion tracking?
Posted: Wed, 14th Sep 2005, 5:57pm

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CTLW83

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I just can't wait for some of the older "plugins" to be converted. I mean, sure the particle generator and the lightsword generators are friggin awesoem, but, I would like to get some of the better stock footage back. Such as the Ghostbusters Particle Stream and such. You can't easily create that effect. You could try to photoshop it, or you could use After Effects but, it would be time consuming.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Oct 2005, 9:12pm

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cinemafreak

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I just can't wait until the presets come out. I had no problem learning Alam DV 2 and when I upgraded to EffectsLab and saw all the millions of micro-managing gadgets and gizmos I just thought "Woah' and haven't had the chance to sit down and really learn the program, but I guess I'll have to at some point.
Posted: Tue, 4th Oct 2005, 7:39pm

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Remco Gerritsen

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rdelavega, I'm sorry that EffectsLab DV was in your sight a waste of money. But what already is mentioned above; Effectslab has just all the features that AlamDV2 had, and even more...

I'm sure if you take time to learn the particle engine, you'll be able to make fantastic things.

I admit, stock footage will always be beter than computer generated effects. But as (again) already mentioned above, EffectsLab DV has also that feature.
Convert plugins with the Chromonator or with quicktime, wich you can do:

Here ! (with Adobe Priemiere)
and
Here ! (with Quicktime Pro)

and last but not least
Here ! (with the Chromonator)
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 5:25pm

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rdelavega

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rrfproductions wrote:

rdelavega, I'm sorry that EffectsLab DV was in your sight a waste of money. But what already is mentioned above; Effectslab has just all the features that AlamDV2 had, and even more...

I'm sure if you take time to learn the particle engine, you'll be able to make fantastic things.

I admit, stock footage will always be beter than computer generated effects. But as (again) already mentioned above, EffectsLab DV has also that feature.
Convert plugins with the Chromonator or with quicktime, wich you can do:

Here ! (with Adobe Priemiere)
and
Here ! (with Quicktime Pro)

and last but not least
Here ! (with the Chromonator)
RRF- You are very kind. Thanks for this!
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 5:36pm

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Magic_man12

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random question...

Effects Lab = stock footage... = removing the black BG from whatever element you are putting in...

Chromanator = compositing =.. cant you just put that same stock footage in this program and have it do exactly the same thing...?

Difference is Effects Lab has penguin particle generator....

or am I wrong?


and if I'm right.. doesn't it make more sense to put them together? lol

maybe im totally wrong - i dont know..

can anybody clear that up for me? wink

-MAGIC
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 8:06pm

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Fill

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No you can't just put in stock footage to do the same...It would be much harder to shape a neon light around a lightsaber prop then just use the engine in EL...I can only agree with one thing...That they should combine Chromanator with Effects Lab...Err...Chromaffects!
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 8:24pm

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Serpent

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swg33k, please don't answer people's questions if you don't know the correct answer. Look up the definition of stock footage, then go to Chromanator's tutorial section and read the importing stock footage one. Hell, it can even import image streams.

Magic_man, for stock footage, yes, Chromy can handle it. But that is not really the point of EL. In the future, it will be for the generators. On Chromy's tute section it shows you how to use stock footage and it has more compositing options and imports image streams. EffectsLab has already the sbaer gen, the muzzle gen, and the basic particle gen. Chromy 2 will be much different than Chromy 1, so by that time it will make more since to have them seperated.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 8:46pm

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Fill

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Huh?

Difference is Effects Lab has penguin particle generator....

or am I wrong?
I said you can't put in stockfootage to do the same functions(engines) as Effects Lab. I didn't say that you can't simply put in stockfootage, just stating that EL isn't the same as Chromy only with a particle engine.

Either I misread his post or you misread mine. I'm sorry if I was unclear.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 9:30pm

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Simon K Jones

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Bottom line is that if you want full a compositing solution, get Chromanator. If you want whizz-bang CG effects, get EffectsLab.

We put light stock footage support into EffectsLab so that people could a) use the old AlamDV2 plugins and b) continue to use stock explosions/fire etc, which we felt were a big part of AlamDV2. But it's not really intended to be a full compositing tool, as that's catered for by Chromy in quite a distinct manner.

The differences between the programs will become more apparent as time passes.
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 2:22am

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Serpent

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swg33k wrote:

No you can't just put in stock footage to do the same...It would be much harder to shape a neon light around a lightsaber prop then just use the engine in EL...I can only agree with one thing...That they should combine Chromanator with Effects Lab...Err...Chromaffects!
Listen dude, this is what you said. Magic Man was asking about stock footage, like explosions, not stock pictures for lightsabers for example. Read his post. You were very clear but obviously misread his post by quite a bit.
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 2:47am

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Fill

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Ok ok you win. I don't like to see people with over 1,000 force quoting me to prove a point.

I hope we answered your question.
Posted: Tue, 18th Oct 2005, 9:51pm

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david regenthal

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rdelavega wrote:

Don't know how to say this politely but here it goes,

EffectsLab is not AlamDV's evolution its a totally different thing.
When I was told about an upgrade I really expected to see a bunch of new and astonishing plugins.
I couldn't agree more -- I was expecting the same . . .

Nearly a year ago some where crying that they couldn't start their features without AlamDV3, and others were unable to eat, sleep, have sex anymore etc., etc. FXHome took a lot of heat for not delivering a finished product. I felt bad about that because it was undeserved.

Now comes an individual who states he was expecting something different and he gets belittled for it . . . then someone else referred him to the development page (somehow overlooking the fact that very little of that stuff has been implemented). No doubt the 3 powerful new engines are fantastic for the dozen or so people that really understand how to implement Effects Lab DV (I am certainly not one of them).

Then we finally get to the, "my dog (force) is bigger than your dog thing" -- just had to throw that in . . could help it I suppose. Funny how maturity just kinda works that way (or perhaps in reverse).

I couldn't be more supportive of the FXHome Team -- their efforts have been super-human, the software has been productive and fun to use. The community here, while sometimes a "tough room", is pretty cool too. I just hope this won't turn into another one of those sites where new guys (or old guys) with questions or valid points get run off while we're waiting for the team to cross the finish line . . . which, I have no doubt they will and that when the program fully matures we will all be doing cartwheels -- even stupid people like me.

Be nice to one another for gawd sakes!
Posted: Wed, 19th Oct 2005, 1:54am

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Serpent

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On this board, I rarely see an occasion where some are treated better if they have a lot of force points. FXHome is hardly a "tough room." You have probably never been to that many forums, the moderators make this a clean and usually less harsh than most. I don't see why you jus can't learn the program, it isn't very difficuylt to get down the basics, and the stock footage engine is Alam DV2 on massive steroids alone. Just take the time to learn the interface. Questions by new users are only annoying if they have been asked at least three other times. I can name 30 members that can use EffectsLab off the top of my head. Becoming an EL pro requires time and skill, I have seen some effects that look brilliant, mostly from the time. Seriously, just sit down and learn it, it should only take a weekend to get down the basics. You need to get more advanced than Alam DV2 limited you to, you will never get better if you avoid learning new things, trying new things, and practicing new things. Staying at Alam DV2 level will not better you in any possible way.

EDIT: Also, if you find one thing in the "To-Do List" that isn't currently in the program, I will give you a gold star and a frickin' cookie. I didn't see anything that was on there that was not in the current version, unless it was one of those things that I didn't understand due to my lack of knowledge on programming terminology.
Posted: Wed, 19th Oct 2005, 9:39am

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Simon K Jones

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I always take rather a lot of pride in how friendly and open FXhome.com is - you only have to look at the 'Against Racism' thread in General Chat to see how different FXhome is to most internet forums. If you can find me many other public forums whereby such a sensitive topic could have reached 10 pages and still be entirely civil, sensible and interesting I'll be surprised.

As for program development, we have been at 'preview' stage for longer than we had expected, but once you see why I think you'll see why. Keep your ear to the ground, something approaches... smile
Posted: Wed, 19th Oct 2005, 3:52pm

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RudyPicardo

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Mr. De La Vega:

I am saddened by your frustration with FXHome products. I too get baffled at times with the problems I have trying to figure out some of the particle systems and other aspects of EffectsLab. And if you're like me, any questions you post you want quick, concise, and personalized answers. (not just go use google or the search engine here).

With this in mind, I hope you try to understand a few things:

1) It can be argued that EffectsLab is an evolution. The term evolution, implies a "process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state".(taken from Merriam Webster Online). Using this definition, one can argue that the improved lightsword and muzzle flash system is itself a change to a more complex state. Note the word "complex" is used to descibe evolution as well.

I can see from your point of view where you expected to see "a bunch of new and astonishing plugins" I believe that some users have written to you or another user in other threads similar to this with a proposed solution. So I hope that the intergration of Chromanator, AlamDV and EffectsLab will provide the results you need.


2) Note that the above definition of evolution says "continuous." Since you are an IT professional, I'm sure you find all kinds of bugs or problems that are in releases of other software products. Sometimes these issues just weren't things that the Quality Assurance testers anticipated; other times they're just new issues that people didn't know existed until someone finds it. Hopefully as new updates and versions come out, they'll improve upon
people's suggestions.

Lastly a note about your post:

rdelavega wrote:

Tell me how to do that with EL...stock footage? from another site? at extra cost? - LOL!
Again, I can understand that you probably are seeking specific step-by-step instructions. Although I can't promise results, I'll see if I can try doing this with AlamDV, Chromantor, and EffectsLab. More specifically, I'll try to work on something within the next 2 weeks. Sadly I cannot promise any quicker results as I too am in the "real world" and can only work on these projects in my spare time.

In the meantime, your last quote with the "LOL" seemed to have a tone of sarcasm. Its hard to tell if this was intentional or not. If it was not intentional, please accept my sincere apologies and ingore the following rebuttal.

If there was sarcasm in this quote, I would suggest that you avoid this, especially since this sarcasm was directed to someone that was doing their best to help you (and notably one of the leaders on the FXHome team). I can understand and accept your frustration. But this tone of sarcasm, if it was intentional, isn't helpful to anyone on this site because it doesn't solve any problems.

Regardless, I'm sure your marketing issues, although debatable, will surely be noted. If you expect FXHome to evolve as you want it to, then they need people to help make it better. As an IT professional, I can't think of anyone that is more qualified than you to help out the people in this community in this regard. They need intelligent and qualified users, like yourself, to make FXHome better. I anticipate with a more humble and inquisitive tone, you'll get better responses.

I still believe that that FXHome creates solid products. I hope that any technical issues are temporary. Those can argue that After Effects, Maya, and Motion 2 are better (and yes I've used all of them). But when you compare these programs respective prices and some specific things they can do really well (such as the muzzle flash and lightsword engines) I think anyone will be satisfied with their purchase.

As stated before, I'll do my best to take a look at your specific problems. I will update you within 2 weeks of any success or failures. If I do not respond, please send me a PM within 2 weeks time.
Posted: Tue, 25th Oct 2005, 10:14pm

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Z28Jerry

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Tarn wrote:

Bottom line is that if you want full a compositing solution, get Chromanator. If you want whizz-bang CG effects, get EffectsLab.

We put light stock footage support into EffectsLab so that people could a) use the old AlamDV2 plugins and b) continue to use stock explosions/fire etc, which we felt were a big part of AlamDV2. But it's not really intended to be a full compositing tool, as that's catered for by Chromy in quite a distinct manner.

The differences between the programs will become more apparent as time passes.
Heck, I can't wait until I can take advantage of the old AlamDV2 plugins with EffectsLab, for some reason that part still escapes me (as well as more than a few others on here) I now understand that EffectsLab is not really an AlamDV2 upgrade, but a whole different program which doesn't quite hit the mark with the majority of the AlamDV2 users (YET guys, calm down, all I'm not bashing EffectsLab, just making a business observation)

However, when everything is said and done, I have no doubt the FXHome team will bring out a solid product that envelops most of our common concerns.
Posted: Tue, 25th Oct 2005, 10:49pm

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rogolo

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Z28Jerry wrote:

Heck, I can't wait until I can take advantage of the old AlamDV2 plugins with EffectsLab
You can convert plugins to video if you wanted to, THEN use them in EL. Quicktime Pro is only $30 if you need to convert the plugins before the preset library comes.

Tarn wrote:

Keep your ear to the ground, something approaches... smile
Ooooh! The anticipation.
Posted: Wed, 26th Oct 2005, 1:05pm

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Fill

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*cough* Leave this topic alone *cough*

I'm so suprised it's not locked. I've said what I've had to say. Still, you just can't do anything about it. EFFECTS LAB IS HERE! And it will stay here.