You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Spiderman 3 Villains

Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 7:21pm

Post 1 of 64

NuttyBanana

Force: 730 | Joined: 23rd Nov 2004 | Posts: 711

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Saw the funniest news I've seen all day earlier, rather than blabbing on, I'll just paste the article...

*Spiderman 3 Spoilers*






from Joblo.com...

I have a feeling Avi Arad isn't gonna be too happy with his SPIDER-MAN 3 star Kirsten Dunst. The actress, while out promoting ELIZABEHTOWN, trumped Marvel and Sony by revealing the two villians Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace would be playing in the third film. She told Zap2it.com in an interview, "We have really great people though as the villains in this film, Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace -- Venom and Sandman," while quickly adding, "maybe I wasn't supposed to say that." While this is pretty much how we expected it to shake down, especially after Superhero Hype reported an FX team confirmed working on the Venom design. It has also been rumored that James Franco will make the transformation into Hobgoblin (unlike another Green Goblin in the comics) at the end of the third film. Sony, director Sam Raimi and Marvel's Arad had been planning a proper way to reveal the villains for the film and rumors were there would be an announcement at the 2005 Comic-Con, but when it passed and there was no news, fans started getting antsy. Filming on SPIDER-MAN 3 is scheduled to begin this January. So now that it's official, whaddya think?!


I think we all knew but I think that's kind of a confirmation. Roll on Spiderman 3! Should be great biggrin
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 7:46pm

Post 2 of 64

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

The Sandman rocks. Seriously. I can't wait to see how they create the fights he has against Spiderman.



Hopefully something like that biggrin

Last edited Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:34pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:28pm

Post 3 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Well I saw Venom coming from a mile away, because whenever Venom was brought up, Sam would play it off as a joke. JUST like he did with Doc Ock after the release of Spider-Man 1.

Sandman, though not expected, is not a suprise. He is one of Sam's favorites, and Sam has always spoken about wanting to do the special effects needed for Sandman.

What is MOST interesting is which villain (if either) will become a good guy in the film. Venom is, as most of us know, a good guy through and through. He protect innocents. The only thing is he views himself as an innocent hurt by Spider Man, so he has to kill Spider Man. Outside of that, Venom is just a mis-understand anti-hero.

Sandman was always just a goon, but in the series he put his evil ways aside and became an Avenger (only to then become evil somehow again, personalities or something, I don't know).

If I put my money on anything it will be Venom fighting Sandman a bit so HE gets to Spidey, Harry using the serum and becoming the Goblin to maybeh help Petey, but then dying because he injected the serum instead of breathign it in.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:31pm

Post 4 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I'm not particularly familiar with either villain, especially Venom whom I know almost nothing about. Aren't they both quite similar in terms of powers - ie, they're both 'gloopy' villains (to coin a phrase)?
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:37pm

Post 5 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

First, let me say this: Bruce Campbell should be Kraven.

Tarn, Venom is solid, though CAN become "goopy" in some parts of his body. Off of Eddi Brock, it's goop, but Venom is a combination of the Goop and a Human, so he can't mearge through stuff . Sandman can turn any part of him into sand and make himself grow and such.

Here is Venom's Bio:

"

Venom has battled Spider-Man, and anyone else who gets in his way, numerous times since then. Brock sees himself as a hero, protecting innocents from the "evil" Spider-Man. Venom desperately hates his "son", Carnage, who he sees as a perversion of all that he is. In truth Venom has acted as a hero on several occasions, but he believes anyone he sees as "evil" should die, and this puts him in the same dubious category as the Punisher. He still hates Spider-Man, but for a while regarded him as a necessary evil since the Wall-Crawler also protects the "innocent". Venom served a homeless community of "under people" in San Francisco as their "protector" for a while but make no mistake: that Venom was insane. Shortly after that, Venom had an epic struggle with the returned Spider-Clone, Ben Reilly, who was Scarlet Spider at the time and managed to separate Brock and the symbiote.

After being rejoined, Venom's killer instincts surfaced once again, and little by little he became a threat to innocent people as well. He acquired selective amnesia (Brock no longer remembers Peter is Spider-Man, and the symbiote doesn't seem to make any effort to remind him of that). Brock absorbed Cletus Kasady's symbiote (who then found another one) and joined the Sinister Six shortly after the reboot. But he soon regretted it and then tried to kill his former teammates. He left Sandman near death, after biting a great chunk out of him, and attacked Electro, leaving him also for dead. He made some sort of peace with Spidey (again), only to foolishly blame him for something as farfetched as his wife's suicide. When the powerful human/alien hybrid known as Senator Ward, Venom lost his chance for revenge, since Ward split Brock and the symbiote apart (again).

A secret agency created their own symbiote using a piece of Venom's tongue that bonded with a woman named Robertson in an alaskan science lab. Eventually, Venom would absorb this symbiote into himself. Unfortunately, he wasnt unable to remove that entire 18 issues run from existence, since it was a story that never quite found its way.

Venom returned later on to reveal that Eddie Brock had cancer, and he could not survive without a permananent merge with the symbiote. In the end, spiderman convinces the symbiote to go through with this "permanent merge." However, Eddie goes through a religious awakening and auctions off the symbiote to Don Fortunato who gives it to his son, so he can be redeemed.

The last we see of Venom, Eddie has slit his wrists in an alley and the symbiote is running free looking for a host. I'm not sure how this permananent merge was undone, or why the cancer that had just about killed Eddie before didn't kill him the minute he gave away the symbiote. However, I have a funny feeling that the symbiote will find Eddie Brock and remerge before he dies of his self inflicted wounds."
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:38pm

Post 6 of 64

malone

Force: 18242 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1477

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User Windows User

FXhome Team Member

wtf, isn't Topher Grace that weedy/skinny kid from That 70s Show?



and Venom a huge hulking monster?



Maybe they'll get Arnie in to play Aunt May
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:47pm

Post 7 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Well, I don't see how he is Sandman, but Thomas Haden Church is playing Eddie Brock. Venom will msot likely be CG.

Tom: http://eur.yimg.com/i/xp/premier_photo/6/6d0ce6ceaf.jpg

Unless they randomly decide to make a young, pussified Eddie Brock. But that would be ghey.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:49pm

Post 8 of 64

malone

Force: 18242 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1477

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Oh, I was going off this post where Kirsten Dunst later says it's the other way round

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=11332

But maybe I'm reading it wrong, Topher Grace really doesnt work as Venom. Although I can't imagine him as any sort of super villian to be perfectly honest.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:51pm

Post 9 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Thomas Hayden Church is playing Sandman. Presumably they'll do a ton of make-up and CG on Topher Grace to make him Venom? I mean, it's not like they'll just put him on screen wearing a 'Venom' t-shirt.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 8:59pm

Post 10 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

"Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace -- Venom and Sandman,"

Thomas said first, venom said first. So they go together.

At least I hope so, Tom is almost perfect for Eddie Brock. Almost.

Topher however should jsut die.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:00pm

Post 11 of 64

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

As far as I know, Eddie Brock is just a young photographer like Peter Parker. That's the whole point of Venom: it brings out the anger he was concealing.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:01pm

Post 12 of 64

malone

Force: 18242 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1477

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User Windows User

FXhome Team Member

You put a paper doily on Topher Grace and it'll probably crush him to death. I imagine they'll CG most of the Venom scenes anyway. But Eddie Brock is meant to be a big muscle bound guy even when he isnt Venom.

Zeolahn wrote:

"Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace -- Venom and Sandman,"

Thomas said first, venom said first. So they go together.
Yeah, but if you look at the link I posted she then says "It's the other way around. You're right". Which seems to imply Topher is Venom. But I'm happy to believe its just badly worded, cos your way round makes more sense.

I personally like Topher Grace in the stuff he's done, but he's all wrong for this.

Last edited Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:05pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:02pm

Post 13 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Hey how about Venom AND Carnage!

I especially like Carnage...HE IS SO COOL!

Heres a pic...biggrin



Now you see what Spider-man would be up against...
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:06pm

Post 14 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

No no no no no HELL NO.

Why? Because Carnage is a 2-Dimensional muderer with no depth or personality, he jsut looks cool. Not to mention you have to have one story arc for Venom before you can introduce Carnage. Carnage would be more like Movie 5 if they go that far.

And yeah, Eddie isa big guy, and he's older than Peter. I think Eddie is like 30 whereas Peter is about 20. Something like that. Come on Church >.<
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:21pm

Post 15 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Yeah your right BUT it would work if in the beginning you see Eddi Brock and...ummm...I forget Carnages real name but you see them two in a jail cell and thats when the symbiote posseses Eddie and it reproduces on to Carnages character...Also judging by the END of the second movie...I'm saying it's going to be 'The return of the Green Goblin'(Hobgoblin IS NOT related to Harry's father WHATSOEVER...He acctually came before the Green Goblin!
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:38pm

Post 16 of 64

Squid

Force: 495 | Joined: 17th Jan 2005 | Posts: 317

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Pshhhh.....Nerds..... biggrin

I am curious about how Rami pulls off the third installment. You never know what that guy is going to throw in your face. I can't wait to see how it turns out. smile
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:43pm

Post 17 of 64

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Thomas Hayden Church would have made a better Venom, and I thought we was going to play the part for the past couple months. He'll make a good Sandman, but I think topher grace will make a crappy Venom/Eddie Brock
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:49pm

Post 18 of 64

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Hmm... I was hoping they'd stop at 3... but i guess they won't. More than three... and you're pushing it, and it'll get old. Besides, the lead actors only signed on for two and three, and have said that they don't want to do any more. That would suck.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:50pm

Post 19 of 64

Bugclimber

Force: 1305 | Joined: 7th Jul 2004 | Posts: 635

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Venom. I'm happy
Venom is my favorite supervillain out of anything. All they need is carnage in #4
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 9:54pm

Post 20 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

swg33k wrote:

Hobgoblin IS NOT related to Harry's father WHATSOEVER...He acctually came before the Green Goblin!
According to the Saturday Morning Cartoon >.>

First was the Green Goblin, Norman Osbourne. Then some guy found one of Norma's hidden HQs, changd the suit, and ravaged the Crime Scene as teh Hobgoblin. Then Harry decided to become the Green Goblin, although he injected the solution instead of breathing it in like his father and Hobby. So although he was more powerful, he was more insane and his heart couldn't take it. HEart attack = Death.

And yes, I am a Spider-Man Geek. I am PROUD!!!!! HAZZAH
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 10:24pm

Post 21 of 64

Mr Pencil

Force: 396 | Joined: 8th Jul 2004 | Posts: 367

Windows User

Member

This site helped me out a LOT.

All the info you could ever want on any Spiderman character friend or foe.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 10:39pm

Post 22 of 64

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Topher Grace was good in "In Good Company", I don't doubt he can do Venom. As far as the Spiderman movies go, they're playing somewhat off the style of the Ultimate Spiderman comics, which, if you read, you see Eddie as not an old, muscular guy, but a guy quite like Peter, only a little older and less scrawny. Topher will most likely wear prosthetics for the scenes that aren't CG, he'll be good.

As for those who are confused as to who plays who: Read the original Spiderman where the Sandman arrived. His face and build fit Thomas Hayden Church perfectly.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 10:52pm

Post 23 of 64

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Topher grace is practically the same guy as toby maguire. It would be a battle of very similar character's..."Superwimps that turn into spider-inspired superheros" Topher grace is a great actor...but..Not venom.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 10:56pm

Post 24 of 64

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

That's what some thought when Rodriguez put Bruce Willis and Mickey Rourke in Sin City. Their acting styles and looks are the same in most of their other movies, but they got along famously in RR's hit. Just you wait.
Posted: Tue, 27th Sep 2005, 11:43pm

Post 25 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

ben3308 wrote:

That's what some thought when Rodriguez put Bruce Willis and Mickey Rourke in Sin City. Their acting styles and looks are the same in most of their other movies, but they got along famously in RR's hit. Just you wait.
Actually I thought that casting was perfect, especially Mickey Rourke.

The last time I doubted a casting in a comic book film was when they casted Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane. I thought Dunst was too uptight, shallow, and not attractive enough to be Mary Jane.

And I was right. =/
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 12:09am

Post 26 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Zeolahn wrote:

I thought Dunst was too uptight, shallow, and not attractive enough to be Mary Jane.
That you were...The comics make Mary Jane seem like a super model...Kristen Dunst is not that...Mary Jane really isn't as beutifull as the comics portray her to be in the movies
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 12:26am

Post 27 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

swg33k wrote:

That you were...The comics make Mary Jane seem like a super model
She's also fun, quirky, a smart-ass, tough, and likable.

I want Mary Jane to die in the movies so we can get a Gwen or a Black Cat =/
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 12:36am

Post 28 of 64

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

or Spidergirl.

Gigity.
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 12:38am

Post 29 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

er-no wrote:

or Spidergirl.

Gigity.
Hahaha!

Seriously...It would flop like that 'super woman' movie did!
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 1:05am

Post 30 of 64

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Kirsten Dunst was okay in the first movie, with her long hair, girlish attitude, and saying of the word "Tiger", but the obvious drug use prior to the second one- baggy eyes, pale face, overbleached hairstyle , and awkwardly strange clothing in S2- completely ruined both the character and the actress. For shame, Kirsten, for shame.
Posted: Wed, 28th Sep 2005, 3:34am

Post 31 of 64

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Bryce007 wrote:

Topher grace is practically the same guy as toby maguire. It would be a battle of very similar character's..."Superwimps that turn into spider-inspired superheros" Topher grace is a great actor...but..Not venom.
That's exactly the point. Venom is like "evil spidey", so having a similar actor play the part is perfect, if you ask me. It's a good parallel. Plus I like Topher Grace.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 5:17am

Post 32 of 64

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

Bryce007 wrote:

Topher grace is practically the same guy as toby maguire. It would be a battle of very similar character's..."Superwimps that turn into spider-inspired superheros" Topher grace is a great actor...but..Not venom.
That's exactly the point. Venom is like "evil spidey", so having a similar actor play the part is perfect, if you ask me. It's a good parallel. Plus I like Topher Grace.
Exactly, which makes perfect sense when you hear they considered Jake Gyllenhal for both Venom in S2 and Spidey, he's like Peter Parker.

Heck, if I hadn't gotten used to Tobey Maguires "look" from watching so much Spiderman I might still get him and Gyllenhal confused.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 5:19am

Post 33 of 64

jstow222

Force: 970 | Joined: 28th Oct 2002 | Posts: 1146

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

I was really hoping for Carnage, but i guess he has to come after Venom. Spidey vs Carnage could be some very intense action. Thos of you who know who carnage is would agree.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 7:28am

Post 34 of 64

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hmm... I was hoping they'd stop at 3... but i guess they won't. More than three... and you're pushing it, and it'll get old. Besides, the lead actors only signed on for two and three, and have said that they don't want to do any more. That would suck.
I'll never understand why people say mess like this. These movies have been doing so well (Spiderman and Xmen) that it would make no sense to stop. If youre getting a new movie with a new chapter in the story and graphics getting gradually better everytime, hell, I'd keep paying to go see them. All these stories run so incredibly deep, its so interesting to see how the next thing they tell is seen on the screen. Not only is it all kinds of entertaining, its a also a gold mine. I love seeing marvel comics to film.. well.. some.. (fantastic 4.. hulk..).

About the whole Venom and Sandman, I can't wait. I'm not gonna bash Topher Grace, I like him. Besides, everyone said the same sh!t about Tobey Maguire and now I really couldnt see anyone else playing the part. I personally can't wait to see how this movie turns out... more so... how the villians will look.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 8:40am

Post 35 of 64

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

Peter Parker is a dork though, Eddie Brock isn't.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 12:56pm

Post 36 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Yeah seriously Waser...Eddie Brock does know Peter because they both work at the Buegal...

Nice pic Waser...Hey what about the Vulter or Shocker or something?

I think the games make them seem shallow...I want to see a movie about 'em!
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 3:36pm

Post 37 of 64

jstow222

Force: 970 | Joined: 28th Oct 2002 | Posts: 1146

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

[quote="CX3"]
... All these stories run so incredibly deep, its so interesting to see how the next thing they tell is seen on the screen. Not only is it all kinds of entertaining...
Seriously CX3? Deep is not how I would describe any super hero movie I've seen thus far.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 3:40pm

Post 38 of 64

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

not even batman begins? That movie was deeper than most regular movies.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 3:40pm

Post 39 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I'd describe Batman Begins as deep, I think. Maybe not compared to some esoteric arthouse flick, but in terms of action films it's pretty impressive and provokes much thought about all kinds of issues as well as Wayne's character.

The Spider-Man movies, however, I wouldn't describe as deep at all. That's not a criticism, however, as I really like both of them, especially the sequel, but the precise reason I love them is because of the light touch and sheer sense of fun. They have good characters (aided by a superb cast) and genuine emotional beats, which is probably where CX3 is coming from.

Besides, compare them to Fantastic 4 et al, and they're deeper than the deepest ocean.

V For Vendetta...now that might raise a few eyebrows, if done right. Same goes for Watchmen, although the Paramount (I think?) execs have remember how to do their jobs with that one (ie, they've binned it like complete idiots).

Last edited Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 3:49pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 3:48pm

Post 40 of 64

jstow222

Force: 970 | Joined: 28th Oct 2002 | Posts: 1146

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

yeah, I didnt mean any criticism, I too love the xmen and spiderman films but they are not deep. And I have yet to see Batman Begins, nor did I bother to see Fantastic 4.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 4:04pm

Post 41 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

Plus it depends on your definition of 'deep', and also probably your age.

The X-Men films, for example, probably introduced the concepts of racism/prejudice/genocide/etc to young audiences that may have never encountered or thought about such subjects before. For such audiences, the films are pretty 'deep', especially as they may be too young to yet watch what you would consider properly 'deep'.

While more knowledgeable/older audiences watch it primarily for the fun factor (and the fact that X2 is damn good), I don't think we should underestimate the films either - they're certainly a long way from the usual brainless summer fodder.

Just musing...

Last edited Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 6:36pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 6:04pm

Post 42 of 64

NuttyBanana

Force: 730 | Joined: 23rd Nov 2004 | Posts: 711

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'd say constantine was up their with the 'deep comic book' movies. I hope they pull their thumbs out and get on with a sequel for that already...
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 7:13pm

Post 43 of 64

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:


I'll never understand why people say mess like this. These movies have been doing so well (Spiderman and Xmen) that it would make no sense to stop. If youre getting a new movie with a new chapter in the story and graphics getting gradually better everytime, hell, I'd keep paying to go see them. All these stories run so incredibly deep, its so interesting to see how the next thing they tell is seen on the screen. Not only is it all kinds of entertaining, its a also a gold mine. I love seeing marvel comics to film.. well.. some.. (fantastic 4.. hulk..).
The problem is they can't keep it up for long. If you think about it, the big difference in spidey 2 that made it better than spidey 1 was that it was about the character living with these powers, as opposed to just gaining them. Anything more than a spidey 3, with a climax, would be redundant. It'd be the same "Living as a superhero" theme, and just switch around the villains. Doc Ock and Green Goblin were VERY similar, in terms of their relationship with Peter... so I don't know how they could keep it interesting, even if you do have a great director and cast and crew. IMO it should be a trilogy, with a beginning, story, and end. To quote Robert Zemekis on Back to the Future "Four begins to get too.... even..." razz

P.S. Don't think that I wouldn't see a Spidey 4, but it would probably be getting a little old.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 8:05pm

Post 44 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

evman101 wrote:

The problem is they can't keep it up for long. If you think about it, the big difference in spidey 2 that made it better than spidey 1 was that it was about the character living with these powers, as opposed to just gaining them. Anything more than a spidey 3, with a climax, would be redundant.
You do realise the comic has been going for about 40 years? And it's still coming up with new (and good) stories?

There certainly isn't a lack of material or ideas. The only lack of imagination comes from the people in charge of the Hollywood adaptations: the source material has enough stuff for loads of genuinely good films. Hollywood has barely scraped the surface of comic book potential. The sooner it gets past superhero comics the better, though...
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 9:07pm

Post 45 of 64

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

true, but then again, those are comic books, that mainstream people don't normally read. They also don't usually have very involved stories, and their purpose is to introduce new villians all the time. Movies, especially blockbuster ones, aren't usually good, if following that pattern. If the Spider-Man franchise goes beyone one or two more movies, only the hardcore fans would continue to see them. I don't read comics because I think they're repetetive, and the same basic thing over and over again, which I guess is why I don't want to see them rehash spidey till its ruined.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 9:08pm

Post 46 of 64

Bugclimber

Force: 1305 | Joined: 7th Jul 2004 | Posts: 635

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Waser wrote:

Peter Parker is a dork though, Eddie Brock isn't.
If they go on ultimate... he certainly isn't a dork, but he is still his age, and having brock be so similar would just add to him being sort of an "inverse spiderman"
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 9:50pm

Post 47 of 64

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

but venom never really was an inverse spider man, at least I never thought so while reading the comics. He was just allot like the other villains, but just happen to have a "spider" motif as well.
Posted: Thu, 29th Sep 2005, 11:35pm

Post 48 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Venom is the "Shadow" of Spider-Man. He's the oppsite in EVERY form. As a man he was big, buff, married. Peter was little, skinny, an outcast, and had girl troubles, hwne HE got married Eddie got divorced. As Venom he was dark, and was fine with killing to protect. Spidey has a no-killing code.

And the movies can continue to come out, it's pretty obvious that the "hardcore" audience is te majority of America now. The "geek" is no longer a minority. It is very common to find a group of guys (and even girls) talking about super-heroes or LOTR or something. So long as the quality of the films keep up, so will the sales of it.

As for Spider-Man being deep, I think it is. Not so much the serious topics such as Racism in X-Men, but it certainly has its level of maturity. LEtting bad things happen because "they deserve it", being true to yourself, intelligence being a gift meant to better mankind, being a bad guy doesn't neccesarily make you evil, some will hate you no matter what, go for what you want, for a hero people will ban together, and of course, "With great power comes great responsibility." One could live by that code alone and live a fufilling life.

And of course, the whole idea of Peter being such a normal guy without the super-powers makes it more realistic than any other Super-Hero movie. Future movies can have very realistic elements, Peter getting married...divorced...a child who is dying due to Peter's altered blood...etc.

And Batman Begins wasn't deep. The onyl good scenes were with Liam Neason, everything else was either fight scene that the camera-man shouldn't ahve been part or of Bale making me giggle with his Batman voice.
Posted: Fri, 30th Sep 2005, 3:10pm

Post 49 of 64

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Spiderman 4 wouldn't be bad.
*SPOILER*
I mean, they opened up a can of worms to explain Green Goblin 2 with Harry finding his dad's stuff, so if Venom and Sandman are occupying the third film, it seems only natural to have a big finale 4 that focuses mainly on Harry and Peter against eachother, not a thrown-in villian.

And Spidey and X-Men (X-men ESPECIALLY) can continue as long as they want to, I mean, look at how well Rocky 5 did, right? I know of at least 2 people who saw it.
Posted: Fri, 30th Sep 2005, 3:24pm

Post 50 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Zeolahn wrote:

And Batman Begins wasn't deep. The onyl good scenes were with Liam Neason, everything else was either fight scene that the camera-man shouldn't ahve been part or of Bale making me giggle with his Batman voice.
Depends what you're looking for, I suppose. Personally I find the themes in Batman far more interesting and 'deeper' than anything in the Spidey films, as well as more subtle. Particularly the arguments for and against vigilantism. I think Batman having no superpowers has always made him and his world more interesting for me, especially now that the camp of Burton and Schumacher has been dispensed with.
Posted: Fri, 30th Sep 2005, 3:44pm

Post 51 of 64

Waser

Force: 4731 | Joined: 7th Sep 2003 | Posts: 3111

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

SuperUser

What the hell are you talking about Tarn?

There is no moment in the history of Batman cinema MORE heartwrenching and developed as that part in Batman & Robit when val kilmer stands up in the circus and yells "I AM BATMAN! I AAAAM BATMAN!"
Posted: Fri, 30th Sep 2005, 5:45pm

Post 52 of 64

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Batman had a far darker, more stripped down storyline that spiderman, thus making it more easily relateable. Xmen was more of an action movie then either of those two. Daredevil tried desperately to be dark a sinister, but screwed up too many elements. Punisher could have been so much more, But they nearly made it an 80's action movie. Fantastic four was hilarious.

Just my opinion.


And Atom's signature always reminds me of "romeo must die" when the dude shoots DMX after he mouths off to him.
Posted: Fri, 30th Sep 2005, 7:28pm

Post 53 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

Depends what you're looking for, I suppose. Personally I find the themes in Batman far more interesting and 'deeper' than anything in the Spidey films, as well as more subtle. Particularly the arguments for and against vigilantism. I think Batman having no superpowers has always made him and his world more interesting for me, especially now that the camp of Burton and Schumacher has been dispensed with.
Dont' get me wrong, I have NOTHING against Batman. Not a favorite of mine, but I can appreciate what Batman is. I just think the Batman Begins film was poorly done.

But Burton's Camp was much appreciated, because it was properly excecuted. Schumacher's Camp just was a pinnacle of retardation that killed the Batman Franchise prematurly. The Camp of the Adam West days is just beautiful =).

But Bryce, what is so relatable about a guy who is super-mega rich for seemingly no reason using his millions to buy stuff that would be avaialb e to everyone (but isn't), facing a group of Ninjas that want to destroy a city because...well, we never really were explained that part. =/ Like I said, I mean no disprespect to the Bat-fans, but Batman is kinda the least relatable Super-hero. Well, next to Superman.


What I would LOVE to see is the REAL Dark Knight, the one Bob Kane created. Batman, the first costumed superhero to use a gun. =D
Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005, 9:07am

Post 54 of 64

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah jstow hah.. I didnt mean deep as in emotionally life changing.. I meant deep as in how far the story goes in the comics.
Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005, 4:44pm

Post 55 of 64

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Bryce007 wrote:

Batman had a far darker, more stripped down storyline that spiderman, thus making it more easily relateable.
As Zeolahn said... A Billionaire spending tons of money on equipment he needs and fighting random ninjas in a made up city is relatable to you? To me, an average kid going to high school in the real city of New York accidentally aquiring super powers, and initially trying to use them to impress a girl he likes is far more relatable. But thats just me.... Didn't know you had billions of dollars, but hey... cool.
Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005, 6:58pm

Post 56 of 64

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

It's not really about having bjillions of dollars though, it's about using what you have. If Bruce Wayne had £5, he'd be on the same mission.

Although I think you've hit it on the head evman - Spidey relates to you guys loads because you're at a similar point in your lives to him. All the issues he has to deal with - school, girls, later on trying to get a job, dealing with his parents (and/or aunt) etc. I've been through all that so, while I can remember it vividly (which is why I love the Spidey films too), it's not directly relevant to me anymore. Bruce Wayne, on the other hand, is older, moved on in the world, trying to find his place, work out exactly who he is, what he's going to do with his life: it seems more relevant to my position, bjillions of dollars aside. It's why I find the Spidey comics (Amazing Spider-Man, anyway) more relevant than the movies currently, because the comics have a 30-ish aged Peter parker, rather than the 17-20-ish aged Peter.
Posted: Sat, 1st Oct 2005, 8:36pm

Post 57 of 64

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

evman101 wrote:

Bryce007 wrote:

Batman had a far darker, more stripped down storyline that spiderman, thus making it more easily relateable.
As Zeolahn said... A Billionaire spending tons of money on equipment he needs and fighting random ninjas in a made up city is relatable to you? To me, an average kid going to high school in the real city of New York accidentally aquiring super powers, and initially trying to use them to impress a girl he likes is far more relatable. But thats just me.... Didn't know you had billions of dollars, but hey... cool.
"Ouch!" said the nail, as Evman hit it on the head.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Oct 2005, 7:10pm

Post 58 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Actually Tarn, I agree. But I've enjoyed Spidey through his life because of how realistic it is if you take away the spidey powers. He's an big boy now. He quit his job at the bugle and wnet back to school, lost his child, his wife left him, he became a professor, he worked and got his wife back. I think...THINK....it's the level of realism mixed with the level of fantasy that makes people love Spider-Man.

And the snazzy costume. Also the only super-hero who's "new costume" (the black one) was jsut as well liked as his original. Superman failed that new costume thing.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Oct 2005, 7:25pm

Post 59 of 64

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

I was speaking from my own standpoint Ev..That hardly makes me wrong.

I guess i was just never a nerd that no one liked in highschool, so i just don't relate to spiderman well wink
Posted: Mon, 3rd Oct 2005, 9:19pm

Post 60 of 64

Bugclimber

Force: 1305 | Joined: 7th Jul 2004 | Posts: 635

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

As tarn said, I think it's all about your age. I find spiderman way easier to relate to than batman, and in ultimate spiderman, even more so (He's 15 in ultimate)

In fact, that's probably why I like ultimate the best
Posted: Tue, 4th Oct 2005, 1:32am

Post 61 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

Bryce007 wrote:

I guess i was just never a nerd that no one liked in highschool, so i just don't relate to spiderman well wink
I was never the nerd nobody liked, but I've had girl problems. I've had to put up with balancing my job with...other stuff. Not neccesarily a super hero, but filmmaking. And the whole Radioactive Spider thing, happened to me so I get it.
Posted: Tue, 4th Oct 2005, 2:33am

Post 62 of 64

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Zeolahn wrote:

Bryce007 wrote:

I guess i was just never a nerd that no one liked in highschool, so i just don't relate to spiderman well wink
I was never the nerd nobody liked, but I've had girl problems. I've had to put up with balancing my job with...other stuff. Not neccesarily a super hero, but filmmaking. And the whole Radioactive Spider thing, happened to me so I get it.
Yeah, I'm not really a comic book reader, but, like others, think Ultimate Spiderman is awesome. Very like, well.....me. Dealing with school and chores and girls and stuff. Very close-to-home, which makes the movies far more appealing and definately more intruiging.
Posted: Tue, 4th Oct 2005, 2:35am

Post 63 of 64

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

I agree...Spider-man is really deep...I think it's one of the most sofisticated comics ever...
Posted: Tue, 4th Oct 2005, 2:38am

Post 64 of 64

Zeolahn

Force: 240 | Joined: 12th Jul 2005 | Posts: 114

EffectsLab Lite User

Gold Member

No, that woudl be Archie.

... >.>

...XD Couldn't say that witha straight face.