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Explotion - pls help!

Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 12:04am

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frankv

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Hi, I'm making a short, and the plan is to have a guy fire a bazooka (it's really a drainpipe with a handle and aim) and have the rocket fly over the shoulder of the herione and blow up my back yard behind her.

After conferring with my wife, we agreed special effects would be the way to go.

Have you guys got any tips on what software can help me make something like that? The bazooka firing, the rocket flying, and the explotion behind the herione? Any particular ways to shoot? (I have no bluescreen...)

Any input appreciated! Thanks! smile

Frank
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 12:23am

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Serpent

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Just shoot it and pretend he is firing a real weapon. Then use any compositing application (like Chromanator, or ELDV's stock footage system) and apply stock footage from http://detonationfilms.com Here is an example of a Bazooka using Detonation film's stock footage. You do realise that this site is dedicated for visuals like this in films with the software they provide, right? Check out the cinema at the top.

PS- The clip I posted above PERFECTLY represents exactly what you want to shoot and uses FXHome's, EffectsLab.

EDIT2: Also, special effects is exactly what you DON'T want to do. Special Effects is physically, Visual Effects is digtally created or composited.

Last edited Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 12:26am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 12:23am

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ben3308

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I would HIGHLY suggest simply overlaying Detonation Film's stock footage onto your raw video, and you're done.
To composite this on, you need to either add it in your NLE (non-linear editor such as Adobe Premiere, Avid, Pinnacle, or Vegas) or in an effects compositing program such as EffectsLabDV.

If you have an editing program that can do chroma or color difference keys with multiple video tracks, tht would be the free approach. Otherwise, it'd be up to you to purchase EffectsLab, which, in my opinion, is well worth it, especially considering the affordable price.

The only other option I can think off would be to actually make a real, physical explosion, and, in light of recent posts and ideas, I think I can guide you to a safe way to do this.


First off, there is a product called ThunderpipeFX which is essentially a debris dispension system that can make explosions depending upon what you insert into it.
More information and discussion about it among FXHome members can be found here

There is also a trick that involves igniting coffee creamer, which, luckily enough, is only flammable when airborne.
I think for the effect that you're going for, this would work well. Information, discussion, and how-to's found here.

If you feel either of the two latter effects listed are too hazardous, keep in mind you could always do them at night whilst recording, and use that footage in the first suggestion instead of Detonation Film's stock footage.

Well, that should wrap up the options I have to offer. Good luck with your effect.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 1:37am

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frankv

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Serpent and ben3308, thanks for GREAT info, just what I was looking for! biggrin

A bit of a technical question for the editor - do you think it will be a lot of work to get the explosion to seem to happen *behind* the actress?
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 1:56am

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film freak

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Serpent wrote:

Just shoot it and pretend he is firing a real weapon. Then use any compositing application (like Chromanator, or ELDV's stock footage system) and apply stock footage from http://detonationfilms.com Here is an example of a Bazooka using Detonation film's stock footage. You do realise that this site is dedicated for visuals like this in films with the software they provide, right? Check out the cinema at the top.

PS- The clip I posted above PERFECTLY represents exactly what you want to shoot and uses FXHome's, EffectsLab.

EDIT2: Also, special effects is exactly what you DON'T want to do. Special Effects is physically, Visual Effects is digtally created or composited.
What he said. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 2:16am

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ben3308

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If you want an explosion behind an actor, I don't think it'd be too hard. You could do one of two things:

a. composite the person in using a greenscreen. This is easiest in post, but can be cumbersome to set up asnd light a greenscreen for composites to match the quality of people actually standing somewhere.

b. Mask out manually. I doubt this would be THAT hard. Just animate a few feathered masks and you're set. Keep in mind that if there really was an explosion behind the person, no doubt they'd be somewhat shrouded in smoke and light, so a little footage leakage in front of the actor (possibly as a result of a faulty mask) is okay.

And though Serpent (the stickler for using correct filmmaking jargon, that sly devil!) suggested not doing special fx, as in physical effects, I'd say if you think you can pull it off- and pull it off safely, mind you- then go for.

Again, good luck with the effect!
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 2:21am

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frankv

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Boy, what a great forum smile
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 3:29am

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Serpent

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Rating: +1

Indeed. razz Masking a person for a 3 second clip at most would take a few hours, but that's it and at most. Once you draw the first frame you can pretty much go easy from there. If you don't know how to do any of these compositing techniques, I would check out EL becuase the masking sytem couldn't be easier. Try the demo. Masking around a person could be hell, but for a big (to the audience) one-time effect like this, a few hours of rotoscoping is nothing. Like Ben said, a feathered mask is the way to go. In EL/Chromy set it to around 4. In anything else, just set the feather to whatever looks best.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 6:13am

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shiftd

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Word of advice- If it's a bazooka, DO NOT pretend there is recoil. Because there isnt any. Which explains why its a tube. Just a word of advice smile
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 8:18pm

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Serpent

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When you fire a bazooka, it will have an opposite and equal reaction. It will make you go back a bit, but not tilt upward like a hand gun or a rifle.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 10:37pm

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ben3308

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Serpent wrote:

Indeed. razz Masking a person for a 3 second clip at most would take a few hours
I could add two feathered oval shaped cookie cutter plugins in Vegas in six minutes and I'm done. A couple of hours? What are you talking about? If you keyframe every frame or so, that's only....what? 90 frames or something? A couple of hours my butt. Even if I hand masked everything I highly doubt thre seconds would take that long. Highly doubt.
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 10:43pm

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Fill

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3 second clip takes 3 hours? Where did you hear this?

I've done some complicated masking for one of my movies. It took about 45 minutes and that was atleast a 10 second clip in Chromanator.

Maybe we took it the wrong way. Care to explain yourself?

Why does it seem I'm always agreeing with ben for a bad purpose?wink
Posted: Wed, 5th Oct 2005, 10:51pm

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ben3308

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swg33k wrote:

Why does it seem I'm always agreeing with ben for a bad purpose?wink
a. Since when have you ever agreed with me unless it was to avoid being flamed for a previous outlandish comment? I say never! wink

b. Bad purpose? Hey, don't include me in whatever you intend!

biggrin

think
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 12:04am

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Sollthar

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Rating: +2

Depending on what movement the actor does, how complicated his clothing / hair etc is and of course, how exact you want to work, it can take well up to a couple of hours.

Besides, he said "at most" - wich implies it could and most likely will take less.



Note to swg33k:
If you have 45 Minutes for 10 seconds, I can assure you, that was NO complicated masking. wink
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 1:23am

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Pooky

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Sollthar wrote:

If you have 45 Minutes for 10 seconds, I can assure you, that was NO complicated masking. wink
Trust Sollthar. He knows.... oh, he knows...
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 2:16am

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Serpent

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Wow, didn't have to say anything. Thanks Sollthar.
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 2:53am

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Fill

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Sollthar wrote:


Note to swg33k:
If you have 45 Minutes for 10 seconds, I can assure you, that was NO complicated masking. wink
I'll take that like Goerge Lucas said it to me.

You know your stuff.

Acctually it was kinda hard. Me infront of a friend so I had to cut my self into a video(Meaning My whole body had to be carefully frame 2 or 3 frames. Your right It can get tricky. Hey, At least you were'nt the one who had to mask out the C3-PO puppeteer in The Phantom Menace.wink
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 9:01am

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Sollthar

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Or the guy who had to do all the chain malls in Lord of the rings. smile


The worst masking I've seen yet is in the King Kong diary about rotoscoping. Did you watch that?

There's a 2 or 3 second shot of Naomi running through a forrest, and this poor guy had to mask every ***** leaf of every ***** tree. crazy


Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 1:25pm

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film freak

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But, you have to admit, that's some pretty darn good masking.
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 4:45pm

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NuttyBanana

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and i bet he got paaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiid some
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 7:13pm

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Bryce007

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I would probably cry myself to sleep after a days worth of masking that. Honestly. I couldn't handle life anymore attempting that. Sollthar, what are you talking about the chainmail in LOTR?
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 8:21pm

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film freak

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Oh, chain MAIL, I think it actually said chain MALL. I was wondering what the heck a chain mall had to do with lord of the rings. (Or that there were mall chains)
Posted: Thu, 6th Oct 2005, 9:39pm

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Sollthar

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Oh, typo. Yeah. chain mail. According to the DVD, there was obviously mostly one guy who had to manually make almost all the cain mails. He even lost his fingerprints afaik. mad. smile
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 1:39am

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Fill

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Sollthar wrote:

He even lost his fingerprints afaik.
Well there are positive things about that-

-No annoying thumb print's on you car that just got a paint job.

-You can pretty much get away with a crime since the cops have no finger prints to examine!

-And lastly you won't get smudges on your glasses. If you have them.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 2:28am

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film freak

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swg33k wrote: -No annoying thumb print's on you car that just got a paint job.

-You can pretty much get away with a crime since the cops have no finger prints to examine!

-And lastly you won't get smudges on your glasses. If you have them.

First:

You couldn't get a new paint job, cause' you wouldn't have fingers to write a check or anything.

Well, it would be kind of hard to break into a house with no fingers.

How the heck would you get your glasses on in the first place?!
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 2:47am

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Pooky

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FingerPRINTS not fingers smile
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 2:04pm

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film freak

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Oops, I just noticed that now. Well, yeah, I suppose that would be kind of cool. But then you couldn't get and use one of those awesome fingerprint readers for your computer. The ones that you can use instead of a password.