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Hollywood in crisis????

Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 4:41pm

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ashman

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I'm in the UK, on the news recently there is a lot of reports of hollywood crashing. IMO as i see it, i think hollywood is running out of ideas, and the new generation of directors are spewing out MTV movies which suck. I was so dissappointed when i saw blade 3, gutted when i saw my fav franchise aleins and predator destroyed by possibly the worst director ever. All the great directors get shoved aside so fresh faced easy to push around ones get to direct awful movies. I'm asking myself whats next, then i saw it. Because the big wigs have run out of storys they decided to nick ones that have already been produced, first already on the screen (remakes) then from the TV (series) now from computer games. I saw my old time fav resident evil get ruined (by the worst director ever) and now they want to ruin Halo. I hear there going to make a metal gear solid movie directed by rob coen, WHY!!!! that is my fav game ever and now i will never be able to bring myself to watch the crap that will spill out. This year has sucked for movies so far, im holding out for peter jacksons king kong, for who i hold great respect for. The only great films i have seen are two horror movies. First the descent and second the devils rejects, both were fantastic. Where are all the summer blockbusters that use to grab you by the balls. The 80's were the best time for great inventive scripts, and it's a shame they can't bring the same wonderful ideas to the screen now. I know there have been some breakthroughs in great story telling but they have been too far too few between. And i think we should start a petition to kick paul W S anderson from planet earth and sit him on the moon where he can do no more harm. biggrin
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 4:49pm

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Waser

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what we need is more black and white movies with no dialogue and really annoying camera angles. THAT'll save hollywood.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 4:55pm

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ashman

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And with the money they make from the movies, they can buy a rocket and send it to the moon, But we would need some one to fly it there.................Paul W S (i suck at everything including life) Anderson
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 5:41pm

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Zeolahn

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Hey, Paul Anderson is a decent director, he just sucks at writing. Visually AVP looked awesome...but the five year old-like dialogue and story made it retared =/

America might have Paul Anderson, but at least Hollywood isn't home to Uwe Boll.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 5:56pm

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Sollthar

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asherman69erdude wrote:

Bla bla bla
Eh? blink
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:01pm

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Simon K Jones

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ashman69erdude wrote:

I was so dissappointed when i saw blade 3, gutted when i saw my fav franchise aleins and predator destroyed by possibly the worst director ever.
If they're the only kind of films you're seeing, no wonder you're depressed about the state of Hollywood.

Personally, I feel this year has been fantastic. Lots of really interesting 'big' films, and even more smaller independent films. Best year for film for ages.

It depends on what you hunt down. If you only go for the mass-marketed push-em-out blockbusters, then you're not going to be satisfied. Check out the schedules and go see films you haven't heard about; I think you'll be surprised. Every year going back decades has had its mix of bad blockbusters, good blockbusters, arty films, independents, etc etc. I'd say we're better of now than we have been since the 70s.

I think this whole 'Hollywood in Crisis' has been brought up every year since 1915. There's tons of variety out there, you just have to hunt for it sometimes. Don't just rely on trailers and adverts - buy proper movie magazines and read decent film websites to keep up-to-date on what's really on offer.

Last edited Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:25pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:04pm

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Andreas

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I partly agree with you, they are doing alot remakes and might indeed be running out of ideas, which i hardly think. Hollywood are just afraid of taking some wild cards.
but i think there are a bunch of good movies coming out this year and next. Paper Man, Idiocracy, The Wendell Baker Story, Andrew Henry's Meadow, School for Scoundrels (should be funny), Shopgirl, Broken Flower, Thumbsucker, Chumbscrubber, Weather Man, Dear Wendy, Everything is Illuminated, The Squid and the Whale, Clerks 2, The Fantastic Mr.Fox.. i could go on forever smile
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:10pm

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film freak

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I really want to see: Harry Potter 4, King Kong, Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, there's so many great movies coming out. I sure hope they make Napolean Dynamite 2. I think, that if they run out of ideas, they can always make a new spider-man movie or something.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:25pm

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Harvey

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So are you saying that Batman Begins and Star Wars III were horrible movies? What about all the other great-looking films that are coming out soon?
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:32pm

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film freak

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WhiteMtPictures wrote:

So are you saying that Batman Begins and Star Wars III were horrible movies? What about all the other great-looking films that are coming out soon?
Nuff' said.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:35pm

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Zea

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film freak wrote:

I really want to see: Harry Potter 4, King Kong, Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, there's so many great movies coming out. I sure hope they make Napolean Dynamite 2. I think, that if they run out of ideas, they can always make a new spider-man movie or something.
Napoleon Dynamite wasnt hollywood. And I hope they dont make a sequal, it would be pointless.

The Devil's Rejects was one of the best movies of the year, and as for Hollywood dying, it wont. Because of how commercial it is, they may run out of ideas but they wont "die." Lions Gate is getting bigger too, which could equal them and hollywood out, but Hollywood wont die.


-Z
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:38pm

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film freak

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Zea wrote:




Napoleon Dynamite wasnt hollywood.

I know that, it's just one of my favorite movies.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 6:49pm

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TommyB

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Hollywood is the place of generational, pationless filmmakers who are in it for nothing more than money.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 7:13pm

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Lithium Kraft

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I don't know, I saw the Devil's Advocate and thought it was ok. It's definitely not my type of film - random gore, random romance, but the plot twist at the end left you in the good kind of suspense.

As for Hollywood...I don't even bother going to the movies anymore.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 7:16pm

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Magic_man12

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Star Wars makes it a good year by itself...


+++++ KING KONG in december (14th I think?) - thats going to be feeeeekin SOO good

and yeah everything everyone else already said

-MAGIC
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 7:17pm

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Evman

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It is impossible to "run out" of ideas.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 7:18pm

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film freak

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Dec 14th? Man, can't wait for that. But, as for pirates of the caribbean, we have to wait till' june next year. sad
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 8:11pm

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Fill

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Interesting.

I think that Hollywood is just a bunch of people having fun and being stupid. It is it's OWN little country when you think about it. Some people are innocent good people and are just LOADED with drugs and sex. In a way I'm glad that it's going 'downhill becuase as with music that is another BAD influence for America. It's sad that these ignorant poor filmakers are pushing aside pro's that know there stuff and there fore making crappy sequals to GOOD movies. That is why I hope some idiots don't come along and make ANOTHER Star Wars movie. They simply don't know how. The only person that would be 'suitable' to make another Star Wars movie is Steven Speilberg.

Anyway I can't wait for King Kong or Pirates of the Carribian 2 to be released! I think they will both be great films!

Kinda sad that this is happening.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 8:28pm

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Evman

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swg33k wrote:



Kinda sad that this is happening.
Nothing is "happening"... as Tarn said, Things like you've mentioned have been happening for years and years and years.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 8:28pm

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Sollthar

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Oh gimme a break with this bad hollywood crap. Seriously.

Just because you don't like certain films doesn't mean that the people involved don't love doing what they do and do it out of passion. Sure, there's people doing it for money, as there is everywhere else. And certain studios make films on simple dollar-estimates.

It's a market after all. And every filmmaker who denies that is blind. If you do it as a hobby or for pure fun, you can take "risks" wherever you want, because frankly, the only "risk" is that out of the 17 people who will actually watch your film 12 might not like it and the 5$ you've spent on something it will be in vain and you can't afford the sandwich you usually buy on wednesdays.

If you have to make a living from it, you are getting into what is a very difficult struggle. The combination between marketing and art. If you go just for "what your heart tells you" you might not get enough money to feed your family. If you guy just for the "it will sell good" route you might land a film that sells, but leaves certain things unfilled artistically.


Besides, 98% out of everything is always average or crap. No matter if it comes from hollywood or not. Or even if it's about film or not. It's always just been a few gems here and there. And it's up to you to find them.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 8:35pm

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Fill

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confused....

I've just never liked hollywood...Maybe I've been brainwashed to think that it's 'EVIL' or something but I just think it's a weird place and if you like your hobby as you said it is pure fun. Just these crazy people there ruin it for the 'good' people...I really don't want to get in an arguement so you win. confused
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 9:48pm

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Zea

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swg33k wrote:

The only person that would be 'suitable' to make another Star Wars movie is Steven Speilberg.
Steven Spielberg? Last I checked George Lucas was the one making commercial based star wars movies. I doubt Spielberg would ever make anything that commercial. I beleive that the Star Wars series is why some people are saying Hollywood is just in it for the money.

Hopefully my opinion against Star Wars is safe on a forum where we earn "force" eek

-Z
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 9:52pm

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Fill

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Zea wrote:

Steven Spielberg? Last I checked George Lucas was the one making commercial based star wars movies.
Ouch. Bad topic to get me started on.

All I'm saying is Steven Speilberg is the only one suitible to make another Star Wars movie. If you haven't noticed Goerge Lucas has just made his LAST one. They are pretty much best friends and they went to film school together. I never said he was but I said that he is the only possibility we have of making another one.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 9:55pm

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Sollthar

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If you haven't noticed Goerge Lucas has just made his LAST one.
And I hope he keeps that promise. And while he's at it, he should leave his fingers from ruining Indiana Jones too. clap
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:05pm

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Fill

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Lol...Umm...you know he teamed with Steven Speilberg making that?

How would he ruin it?(Don't answer that)

Well...I'm pretty much out of this...Unless some one horribly insults me or if some one says something really retarted(rofl wink).
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:15pm

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Sollthar

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Yeah, I know he teamed up with Spielberg. Witch is what worries me. Lucas sucks imho.

How he'd ruin it? By making it as bad as the new Star Wars films. Or worse. Hmm... If even possible. wink

Oh, I answered. Dang. sad
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:37pm

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ashman

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how can you say lucas sucks???????? He made one of the greatest films ever, not just star wars but american graffiti and thx. Lucas is a good director but i feel he has lost intrest of late. I also think that the last three star wars was more of a money making scheme than love of making film. But i think saying he sucks, is a bit harsh. They are making a series of star wars and its confirmed. Its about boba fett and is being played by the kid in episode 2 who also played boba fett, Now 18. And is being directed by none other than kevin smith. Im not saying hollywood is bad or evil, i feel let down by the fact they have all these facilities to make wonderful films, and to an extent abuse them to meet quotas because they have to pay the bigger co orperations that own them. There are talented hollywood directors out there, but Paul anderson is awful, thing is he writes his scripts and like some one said before, it's like a ten year old wrote them. What upset me was he said he was a true fan of the franchise, but how can he say that and completely rip of some of the books about that very thing. Funny thing is you can get away with stuff like that in a book, but trying to make the predator talk to a human in a film is just wrong, it felt like he had raped the film and destroyed it. What i dislike, others will love, and it's all fair game. I respect every ones opinon and no matter how strongly i feel about it being wrong, I am no better than them. Lucas may suck to you, but to me he is a great man, We all love movies and thats what matters. Roll on Dec 14th bring on the kong.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:47pm

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Sollthar

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Honestly I find Anderson to be a better director then Lucas. He hasn't done anything I find even closely as stupid and bad as Star Wars episode 2, wich made me want to leave cinema.
And some of his films I find to be rather entertaining really (The first half of Event Horizon and Mortal Kombat, which is just randomly fun).
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:50pm

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Fill

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Ok..Some one has horribly insulted me! lol

YOU LEFT THE THEATER IN THE MIDDLE OF EPISODE II?!?!

Dude...You have some serious issues or your REALLY harsh when it comes to movie quality...What did you do next, walk out of The Return of the King?!

Geez...That's amazing...A first!
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 10:58pm

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ashman

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What about THX and star wars , american graffiti. Your saying paul andersons films are better than these? I don't understand that you think mortal kombat is a better film?? Are you comparing these to Episode 2? Or all of Lucas's work? If you compare paul andersons early work to lauca's im sorry but Lucas is better. I did enjoy Mortal kombat and event horizon, i even thought the idea behind soldier was good. but they are in no way as well directed as Luca's early work?? I know you get great respect from everyone on the site, but i think paul anderson sucks and its a shame because he gets all the film that could be great.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:06pm

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Sollthar

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You should try and read swg33k. smile

I wrote it made me WANT to leave cinema. I didn't leave it. I never did yet and never will, because I respect films too much to do that.

Actually, I don't consider myself to be really harsh. There's hardly a film wich I consider to be "bad". I find most things I watch entertaining.
But episode 2 is in my top5 worst films. I just found it incredibly stupid, cheesy, silly and insultingly bad (except for John Williams score and some work of ILM of course).



@asherman

I didn't see American Graffiti unfortunately, so I can't comment on that one. THX was cool, allthough I wouldn't watch it again really, while I've bought Mortal Kombat on DVD.

Lucas has made better films then anderson, but he has also made worse (episode 1 and 2), a lot worse. So as a whole, I'd say I prefer Anderson to Lucas by quite a bit. Even though I wouldn't consider Anderson to be anything more then an average director, if even that.


It's a matter of taste at the end of the day anyways. Lucas just doesn't make films I hugely enjoy. Not even the original Star Wars, sorry. I do think he's not a good director and I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, don't worry. smile
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:11pm

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Fill

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Sollthar wrote:

You should try and read swg33k. smile
Sorry..Speedreader here...lol

Well...I don't want this discussion to go any further...I'm sick of argueing
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:13pm

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Sollthar

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Didn't think it was an argument. Just a mere discussion. smile

Sorry if it came across as an argument. neutral
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:13pm

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ashman

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ok, i have no problem either, so every one is cool. biggrin

What about the go kart kids, any one remember that, wayyyyyyyyyy to old and obsure, but i remember it from years ago. Must have seen that in 84 so i was quite young. mmmm the old days.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:29pm

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jonky64

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I think most movies of today are crap. It's very rare when I go to the movies and Im not able to predict what's going to happen by just seeing the trailer for it.
Posted: Fri, 7th Oct 2005, 11:37pm

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ashman

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Whaaa!!! okay i agree 80% say, but I bet no one could guess what was happening in the descent, that film was so refreshing and a joy to watch. Neil marshall is wonderful and i bet his next film is going to get better. Im so glad he's nothing to do with dog soldiers 2, he's sticking to his guns. Hell you gotta give a guy respect when he doesn't become a sell out. I won't even bother slagging of the cave. (a complete rip off).
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 12:23am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Rating: +2

Citing Slow Summer Box Office, Hollywood Calls It Quits
October 5, 2005 | Issue 41•40

BURBANK, CA—Universal Studios joined DreamWorks SKG, Sony Pictures, Warner Bros., Paramount, and Fox Monday, when CEO Ron Meyer announced that the company is shutting down operations and ceasing all film production, effective immediately.


Demolition begins on a Hollywood landmark.


"In their hearts, every studio chair would like to be a patron of the arts," said a candid and reflective Meyer, speaking from his New York office on the 69th floor of Manhattan's Rockefeller Plaza. "But this is a business, not an artists' charity ward."

According to Hollywood insiders, summer 2005 dealt the death blow to an already ailing industry. With box-office receipts 9 percent lower than those of 2004, the few successes, such as The 40-Year-Old Virgin and War Of The Worlds, could not carry the industry.

Regarding the decision to liquidate Paramount, Viacom CEO Sumner Redstone said, "It was a simple choice: cling to an outdated business model or cut the pictures loose."

To better protect their stockholders' interests, Hollywood will be shifting its focus to safer, more reliable profit models, including real estate, life insurance, and the sale of hygiene products.

Said Meyer: "The mortuary industry also seems like a good bet. No matter what happens in the economy, there's always a market for funeral homes. People are always dying. That doesn't go unpredictably out of fashion with the public's taste, like, say, historical costume epics or Russell Crowe."

Monday, construction crews quietly dismantled the storied Hollywood Walk of Fame.

"This is a real shame," said foreman Kevin McKnight, directing members of his crew to pry the brass stars from Hollywood Boulevard and transfer them to a nearby freight crate destined for a Japanese smelting plant. "I love movies. My whole family does. All my life, I loved movies."

With each studio's decision to cease operations, dozens of films in various stages of production will quietly die, some going to DVD, others disappearing entirely, amounting to little more than tax write-offs. Assets are being sold for pennies on the dollar, and hastily liquidated prop houses and set rooms have flooded an already deluged eBay resale market. An original Indiana Jones flight jacket was sold Tuesday for $1.49 plus shipping.

Figures from the California Labor Department reflect the industry's sudden collapse. As of Tuesday, some 700 directors, 15,000 producers, 2,900 entertainment lawyers, 14,000 writers, and 72,000 actors—not to mention countless gaffers, tour guides, production designers, publicists, souvenir sellers, and personal assistants—were reportedly out of work.


Mel Gibson begs for work on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles.



"I feel a little betrayed," said Stealth director Rob Cohen. "After the summer season ended, I had hoped that people would start coming back to theaters, or maybe the industry would cook up some new concepts."

Cohen added: "Now it looks like I'll have to go back to directing TV ads."

"I don't know how my family will get by without a steady source of income," said 43-year-old Los Angeles resident Kirk Ferguson, a third-generation set carpenter. "Making facades that get blown up is all I know."

The absence of films is creating a ripple effect far beyond Southern California. Movie ushering has become an obsolete trade overnight, as first-run theaters shut down, convert to loft apartment space, and force hundreds of thousands of adolescents into the already crowded lawn-mowing and car-washing professions.

"A lot of movie history was made on the Warner Bros. lot, but not a lot of money," Warner Bros. CEO Barry Meyer said. "We've been sitting on valuable land at the height of a booming real-estate market. We could have sold it off months ago instead of making Must Love Dogs. We acted irresponsibly, and for this I apologize to our stockholders."

With little hope of getting a job in Hollywood, ex-film-industry employees are understandably reacting with anger and despair. Some, however, are more philosophical.

"I can always go back to Wisconsin and tend bar," actor Mark Ruffalo said. "Maybe do some community theater. The folks you should really feel sorry for are Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise. They're f*@^ing nuts. I have no idea what they'll do without Hollywood."

The void is not likely to remain for long, with heavy hitters such as Bollywood producer Aamir Khan ready to swoop in.

"We are very excited to be entering the American entertainment market," Khan said. "Our first release, timed to coincide with the American holiday entertainment rush, is a remake of Mahabharata, a five-hour retelling of the ancient Hindu epic, filled with thrilling synchronized dance numbers and much romance."


Source: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41239 biggrin razz

Last edited Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 12:27am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 12:26am

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Zeolahn

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WhiteMtPictures wrote:

So are you saying that Batman Begins and Star Wars III were horrible movies?
...I'd say they were.

Well, Bats wasn't HORRIBLE...but it was bad.

As for Anderson Vs. Lucas...

Anderson is a shitty writer but a decent director with some good vision for Action.

Lucas comes up with great stories but is a shitty writer and a shitty director.

Uwe Boll must commit suicide.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:10am

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Bryce007

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I really don't see what all the complaining is about. Think you can make a better movie? Then make one and quit crying about it. Everyones entitled to there opinion, But the most powerful division of the entertainment industry is definately not going to sink because you spent your $8 to see a movie you didnt like.

Hollywood isn't running out of ideas. Its using ones that sell. it IS after all an industry, not a gigantic group of people looking to take huge risks with there money. I really find it entertaining when people are bitching about something but won't do anything about it. I assume most people on here aspire to be directors or thereabouts. So Study the craft. Get motivated. STAY motivated. And go out there and show these "hacks" what a Real movie is.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:24am

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NuttyBanana

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War of the worlds, batman begins, star wars 3, sin city, the island, 40 year old virgin.......just a few movie off the top of my head that i thought made this years movies great, i had all the fun i'd want through a movie and they were all top movies in their own genre imo.

And for anyone thinking that halo is gonna go down the pan, peter jackson has signed on as a producer and the visual effects team he's glued to is on the project the last i read. Not sure if jacksons other projects might prevent him being as involved as we may like but hey, its all a good sign no?

As many have pointed out, the year isnt over, with king kong on it's way. I'm also dieing to see serenity, the Sci-fi channel had a Firefly weekend last weekend and it was absolutely amazing, I know I'm gonna love that movie. Anyways, I doubt Hollywood is going anywhere soon.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:31am

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Zeolahn

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War of the Worlds was mediocre, Batman BEgins was bleh, Episode 3 was jsut as shitty as 1 and 2 except it had more action. Sin City was gorgeous (becasue Roddriguez is a god), THe Island was pretty swell, and 40 Year Old Virgin was AWESOME.

Jsut because Peter JAckson is a producer doesnt' mean anything. It means he helps with decisions and pays for stuff. Sam Raimi produced the GRudge and Boogwyman and they were still crap. I'm not saying I think Halo will be crap, I personalyl ahve never played the game for more than a few minutes. I'm just saying that Jackson is not a saving grace just because he's listed as a producer.

But no, Hollywood isn't going anywhere soon. There are a ton of crap movies, but there are a lot of good movies too. Unfortunatel,y the majority of movies directly from HOllywood are kinda crappy.

If you're wondering why Hollywood movies have gotten so bad, I'll tell you why: It's because Hollywood get 60% of their money from DVDs, all of which are bought by young, dumb male demographic. The same dempgraphic that's given us Maxim, ADD, and George Bush.

When I was younger, Hollywood didn't give a damn about me- and that was good! Good for movies and good for me because I was forced to smarten up instead of dumb down

A good movie is like good sex- you dont' have to put it out everyday, but when whole seasons go by without getting one, you do start to get horny for entertainment.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:33am

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NuttyBanana

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nah, i still stand by all the movies i listed.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:34am

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Zeolahn

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NuttyBanana wrote:

nah, i still stand by all the movies i listed.
Just discussing ^.^ Didn't mean anything by it.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 3:29am

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Fill

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Bryce007 wrote:

Think you can make a better movie? Then make one and quit crying about it.
This dude is right on.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 6:33am

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Zeroman

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Zeolahn wrote:


Uwe Boll must commit suicide.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 9:12am

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Bryce007

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I definately think uwe boll has style. He sure uses alot of "trendy" camera moves, but he knows style. He cannot, however, direct actors worth crap. He also can't recognize a bad script when he see's one. He also needs to learn storytelling.

Paul ws anderson makes cool looking movies. Not well scripted emotion fests.. AVP looked really, really cool. bad acting and storyline, but everything looked great and had excitment to it.

It seems like lucas CANNOT direct actors anymore. He used to be able to, But apparently he loses the touch. He also can't right screenplays worth crap either. When he attempts writing romance scenes, its borderline Macabre. amongst other things, I think he got lost in commercialism. I don't blame him.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 9:22am

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Waser

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NO. I'm in love with YOU
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 11:14am

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ashman

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He also can't right screenplays worth crap either.
So i take it you think the indiana jones's trilogy is crap do you? I agree of late he has lost touch with actors, but that satatemwnt you made was just typing before thinking, I bet the ratio is higher for people loving those movies than not. I can understand being a bad director maybe, but a bad writer, confused i think not
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 11:40am

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er-no

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jonky64 wrote:

I think most movies of today are crap. It's very rare when I go to the movies and Im not able to predict what's going to happen by just seeing the trailer for it.
Get yourself along to watch A History of Violence (if your old enough, its 18 for a reason).

One of the best films I've ever seen. My favorite of the year. Saw it last night, fantastic twists and just a simply brilliant film - relying on nothing but a great story to deliver the effect. Going to watch it many times over once its out on DVD.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 11:42am

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Sollthar

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Asherman

You are aware that Lucas hasn't written the scripts for the indiana Jones trilogy? he had the idea, but he didn't write the scripts.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 1:29pm

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jonky64

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er-no wrote:

jonky64 wrote:

I think most movies of today are crap. It's very rare when I go to the movies and Im not able to predict what's going to happen by just seeing the trailer for it.
Get yourself along to watch A History of Violence (if your old enough, its 18 for a reason).

One of the best films I've ever seen. My favorite of the year. Saw it last night, fantastic twists and just a simply brilliant film - relying on nothing but a great story to deliver the effect. Going to watch it many times over once its out on DVD.
Notice I said "most" movies. That doesn't mean all. I found Sin City to be a good movie along with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 3:01pm

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Zea

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It's funny that there is a topic about hollywood, and we have to start over whether George Lucas sucks or not. This happens all the time.





I've already stated my opinion on Hollywood. Consider me a little birdy telling you to get back on topic.



-Z
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 3:29pm

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ashman

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George Lucas's didn't write the scripts??? eek I honestly thought he did. Ok lets get things straight here, im not a massive george lucas fan who defends him for the sake of, i just thought that some of his work was really good, not so much directing but his storys. And when some one say's, so he's rubbish because i hate star wars i think, what about other films he has done. People seem to focus on the negative aspects then crusify his whole lifes work on it. If anyone out there made a couple of bad movies i would never say, o thats rubbish you're nothing why do you even pick up a camera. It seems people are quick to judge and lay the smackdown. And i always like to look at the better aspects of a film makers movie, no matter what part in it he had. I like george lucus for what he has contributed to the film industry as a whole, he has set a standereds on film in many areas and many people followed in his footsteps. Peter jackson, James cameron, ridley scott all have admitted they have been influenced by lucas's work then improved on it. The sound quality is awesome and special effects industry opened up. Lucas helped many people into a niche that never existed before in film. Sure it would of happened sooner or later but Lucas got there first. To blatently say he has no talent or vision was not thought through. His time has come and gone, which is fair enough. Next some one is going to say stanley kubrick is crap, ahh, lets just not go there.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 3:34pm

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Simon K Jones

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People always go on about Lucas being a bad director, which I don't really understand. A dodgy writer, certainly, but I've never seen evidence of him being a bad director, except in terms of pacing issues (then again, that stems mainly from the writing stage).

Great at stories, good director, dodgy writer. Hence whenever he's collaborated with other writers, the results have been invariably rather spiffy (THX1138, American Graffiti, Indiana Jones, Empire Strikes Back).
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 5:02pm

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Sollthar

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Well, I can elaborate on why I think Lucas is a bad director:

First, what does a director do? He directs actors. He makes artistical decisions and he directs how the screenplay is being set in scene. So the pacing is one of the main work a director does.


What has Lucas actually directed?


American Graffiti (not seen)
THX
Star Wars - a new hope
SW Episode 1
SW Episode 2
SW Episode 3 (not seen)

As far as I'm aware, thats it. (if you leave the no name productions aside which he has done earlier, wich I haven't seen or heard of)



So if otherwise good actors appear wooden and ridicolous, I think that's mainly the directors fault (there's enough movies with dodgy writing where the the lines are still delivered well). If a film has pacing problems, that's also mainly the directors fault (because at last, it's his decision how the screenplay should be interpreted).

And all that was major in Episode 1 and 2. At least for my taste. I thought those two films were a complete mess, they were boring and the acting was mediocre at best. For me, he didn't manage to make the story or the characters look good. And that's what a director is supposed to do. So in 2 of the 4 films I've seen, I can say that I feel he has done a "bad" job.
While I did enjoy a new hope, I wouldn't consider it anything that makes it near my favorite films. It is technically a masterpiece that set new standards, no doubt.
THX was alright, allthough it's nothing I'd watch again. Just not my style. Too boring for most places.

So tu sum it up, what I've seen of Lucas work sums up to two bad, one alright and one good film.


As a writer, I can only base my opinion about the Star Wars sequels, since I haven't seen his only other screenplay American Graffiti. Star Wars as well as Indiana Jones was mostly written by Lawrence Kasdan based on ideas of Lucas. So as I writer, he think he sucks major ass.
He does have great ideas though, when he lets other people develop them.


I do have respect for what Lucas has achieved. I think Lucas is an absolutely brilliant business man. Allthough I do question a lot of his methods (forced cinemas to upgrade to his technique, otherwise he won't allow them to show the new Star Wars films - fires employees if they disagree with scripts etc). So as a marketing man, I think he has a remarkable talent.



Besides, I think this is well on subject. Because when I hear "hollywood money making machine", Lucas is the first person coming into my mind, as I think he stands perfectly for a system of profit-maximation.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 5:08pm

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Simon K Jones

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Except, of course, George Lucas is about as separate from Hollywood as it is possible to be, so it's a muddied argument. smile

It's also a shame you haven't seen American Graffiti, because the performances in that are great and the film holds together nicely. It helps if you're still a teenager when you see it, of course, as that's who it's aimed at.

Personally I love THX - I love its clinical minimalism. It does what The Island was so desperately trying to emulate.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 5:13pm

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Sollthar

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That's true. Still I think he's closer to that association "hollywood" than hollywood itself. smile


Might watch American Graffiti when I get the chance. Would be very interested to see if it's actually as good as people make it out to be. (wich is usually a bad reason to watch a film, because you will most likely be disappointed by it to begin with) sad
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 6:29pm

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jonky64

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I think Goerge Lucas just doesn't know how to work with actors. Natalie Portman is a great actor but for some reason she sucked in Star Wars and I would have to blaim that on Lucas.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 7:27pm

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ashman

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Watch american greffiti, it really is a wonderful movie, and i agree he has no relationship between his storys and the actual actors who are the characters, Tho didn't he write willow, I thought that movie was ok. I'm pretty sure Lucas did write more tho obviously i can't prove without reaserch. But tarn is spot on with THX, and to me the story remains that storng to this very day, it has been copied a number of times in different ways, not just through the island but again with logans run and the prisoner series. And remember THX was first written as a short Lucas did when he was a teenager. At the end of the day it's all about preference, so every ones a winner. And i heard someone say Batman begins was amazing in this forum some where. Only to die hard comic book fans, i felt the film was weak, chris nolan is an amazing director but this first helping of batman just didn't feel amazing, but i have high hopes for round 2. I'm looking forward to seeing nightwatch, and king kong an so on. But i can't wait for transformers that (im really hoping) will be great, mainly due to the fact its gonna be based on the 80's version. YAY!!!
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 7:30pm

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Sollthar

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Transformers.... YAY! Can't wait to see a Transformers movie on the big screen really. I've grown up with those cartoons. cool

Didn't like Batman Begins much either I must say. It's still Burton all the way for me.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 7:36pm

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Fill

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Lol yeah I grew up with that too..I'm with you there. Never knew they would acctually make a movie out of it. I saw the Digimon movie the first day it came out so booya!
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 7:43pm

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ashman

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Did you ever see the citreon ad with the car/robot. If its anything like that,mmmmmmmmm gonna be so good. In fact im gonna watch tranformers the movie right now. Tho its not live action, it still rocks out!
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 7:45pm

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film freak

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Speaking of animated movies, the pokemon creators seem to be coming out with a new one every other month. wall Also, dosen't it seem as though we there's an ad for a new set of pokemon cards every WEEK???
I think I melted my brain with pokemon when I was younger. (a lot younger) burst
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 9:06pm

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Bryce007

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I never actually said lucas was a bad director. i said he "can't direct actors". Although i don't think he is a great director, he tends to have really creative ideas, some of which flop and/or lose continuety. Unfortunately he also has a problem with critisism, so alot of the bad ideas he has that he falls in love with get left in his movies.

A quick way to tell that, Even from a commercial standpoint, Is that Everybody and they're mom's is convinced michael bay is 100% pure sh!t.
But why is it that he seems to pull much better performances from his actors than lucas, yet everybody loves lucas? Strange. In my opinion, Bay also has better cinematography and just as good if not better action sequences than lucas.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 9:22pm

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ashman

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OK after all i said you are all going to hate me for this, I think micheal bay is a good director. AH i said it and i would say it again. Ok it's like this, I like the lighting and the use of shadows, i find it very attractive the way he has his shots set, they are great, but i hate camera shake it's so damn annoying, and he does it too much. I liked the rock tho i know it was a poor script, i really think he would make an amazing metal gear solid film, i can see that being perfect. Ok you can kill me now, but Paul anderson still sucks mwahahaha.

Funny thing is, all of micheal bay's films are bad, but why? I really don't feel its in his directing, I know it sound mad and alot of you won't understand what i mean, but there really is quality dying to get out into his films. I really hope it happens soon, if it doesn't im screwed in my discussion on this topic.

Last edited Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 10:28pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 9:59pm

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NoClue

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evman101 wrote:

It is impossible to "run out" of ideas.
Really? So why yet ANOTHER remake of Pride and Prejudice? The Remake of Superman is on it's way. The remake of Charie and the Chocolate Fatory is out, and on, and on, and on ......

But, of course, it's impossible to "run out" of ideas.

Evman101, this is not a dig at you. It's directed at the world in general. Hollywood (and the UK film industry) has not run out of ideas and never will. It's just that every 5 - 10 years the new directors come through college etc and are just untalented, lazy, money grabbing, F*** wits.

The industry is run by big companies. Big companies are interested in one thing - M.O.N.E.Y.

Why think up new ideas when you can get the sheeplike general public to pay again for something they've already seen?
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 10:11pm

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Sollthar

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Why do you think a remake is a sign of running out of ideas?

A remake can be a very creative process. Many remakes I can think of have some brilliant new ideas or look at things. Even though it's called "remake" you hardly remake something in the exact way it has already been done. You look at the same thing from a different angle, wich is not a bad thing in any way.

To think that's something you don't need new ideas for is a bit shortsighted really.
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 11:23pm

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Fill

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If you think it's impossible to run out of ideas then you are RIGHT.

Solithar I agree with you on that one.

I was comepletely overly melted down in the head with pkemon too... the games too...I caught a dragonair!!

Lol
Posted: Sat, 8th Oct 2005, 11:46pm

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Evman

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rcamuk wrote:

evman101 wrote:

It is impossible to "run out" of ideas.
Really? So why yet ANOTHER remake of Pride and Prejudice? The Remake of Superman is on it's way. The remake of Charie and the Chocolate Fatory is out, and on, and on, and on ......

But, of course, it's impossible to "run out" of ideas.

Evman101, this is not a dig at you. It's directed at the world in general. Hollywood (and the UK film industry) has not run out of ideas and never will. It's just that every 5 - 10 years the new directors come through college etc and are just untalented, lazy, money grabbing, F*** wits.

Exactly, its impossible to run out of ideas, but people just don't feel like trying hard enough to find new ones.
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 1:05am

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Bryce007

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Thats funny coming from you Ev. And asherman, I agree that michael bay is a good director as far as im concerned. Just like john woo, He makes movies for people who like big action movies. Period. You see all the "big" critics railing on him and other action directors for having, apparently, too many explosions, or too many gunfights, or a somewhat shallow script. But the fact of the matter is, Basing a movies content on its target market is not poor filmmaking. it just so happens that sometimes, I just want to see a bunch of stuff blown up.

I can't see anything wrong with remakes, unless they're worse than they're original counterpart.

From what i've noticed, one of the only things you can count on hollywood for is they're constant and obvious drive to make money. Great idea's get made into total crap movies every day. Its all about being able to distinguish and distill the really excellent idea's for many movies into one.
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 11:33am

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Simon K Jones

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Michael Bay is a very good director, he just has a tendency to pick awful, awful scripts. The fact he can make generally entertaining movies from appalling screenplays is a good testament to his skill as a director. It'd be interesting to see what he'd come up with given a decent script.

Having said that, he made a total mess of The Island. The script seemed to be a rather interesting, serious affair, and he turned it into lighit comedy action...although it was still technically fairly accomplished. He makes 'solid', unremarkable films...well made, good fun, won't change your life.



As for the Transformers movie...I'm expecting it to have amazing special effects, but be absolutely godawful. That could just be because I've always wanted to make a TF movie...
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 11:35am

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Joshua Davies

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Our Transformers would have been better Tarn. sad

Give it 20 years and we'll be able to reinvent it all....
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 1:43pm

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Zeolahn

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Transformers? NEIN! BEAST WARS!
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 1:49pm

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Sollthar

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I think Michael Bay is a very good director. He made "the rock", wich is one of my favorite films ever. Brilliant movie.
Except for "Pearl Harbor", wich was patriotic crap, all of his movies were at least entertaining to me.

I didn't know he makes the Transformers movie! WEEEHAA... Sounds good to me. smile
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 5:35pm

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Waser

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my goal is to out-do bay with my robot movie.
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 6:29pm

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ashman

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I dont think Bay is involved in Transformers, the producer is the same guy as extrodinay gentleman, i think rob cohen is director, im not sure tho. I also heard cohen was doing metal gear solid with josh lucas as snake, Micheal Bay should direct it, its the perfect project for him. As for transformers I can't wait, soundwave is gonna look so cool. They should use david warner from omen to play megatron lol. I loved that hairstyle <<< dont take the last comment seriously btw
Posted: Sun, 9th Oct 2005, 7:04pm

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Simon K Jones

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Bay was directing TF, but I think he got chucked when The Island didn't perform as expected.

Don Murphy is indeed one of the producers, which I can't say I'm thrilled by. He has a history of producing awful adaptations, and there's no reason to think TF will be any different. He also has a highly unpleasant attitude, if you take a moment to browse his official site forums.

Two potential rays of light are Tom DeSanto, who is heading the creativity side, who was responsible for getting X-Men up and running, and slight creative involvement of Simon Furman, officially the best Transformers writer ever (seriously, you don't actually have any comprehension of how much potential Transformers has as a franchise/story until you've read his classic UK comic runs).

As for director, I don't think I've heard anything for a while. The snippets of story I've heard coming from the Murphy and Spielberg camps, however, have been pretty worrying. There seems to be a distinct feeling of 'missing the potential' in just about everything I read. They're sitting on a concept that could easily be as big, or bigger, as Lord of the Rings/Star Wars/etc - both in audience size and critical appreciation. But I get the feeling all they're shooting for is your average summer blockbuster action flick.
Posted: Mon, 10th Oct 2005, 3:11pm

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Remco Gerritsen

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Waser wrote:

my goal is to out-do bay with my robot movie.
I'm really looking forward to Electric Mans 8000, it's a very original concept. It will be a remarkable movie !