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Upgrading. Need some help on new computer parts.

Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005, 8:13pm

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steelglass

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Alright guys I need some help. The time has come for me to upgrade my computer. So I need some info on what to get as far as mother board, cpu, Graphics card, and ram. I have a buget of around $400 but I dont need any drives or case or and thing like that just what I mentioned above. I am have a pretty good knowlege of computers but its just old knowlege and I dont really know whats the best now days. So what would be a good setup for around 400 bucks. Ive been looking into the amd 64 cpu and they look promising. For lets say a 3500-3700 amd 64 would that be better that getting a 2.8-3.0 p4 which one provides the best bang for your buck. Another thing itell has those new p4s out now that have 64 bit tech. Are they worth checking into? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1232719
Whats the diffrence between a athalon 64 and a 64x2 and a64fx?

Mother board is there really and diffrence between brands of mother boards if they have the same specs? Whats the diffrents between an asus thats more expensive and a ecs that have the same specs? Which mother board should I get.

RAM. Im probably going to get 1gig of Ultra ddr pc3200 ram. I guess I dont really have much for questions on ram. Ive heard ddr2 isnt worth looking into.

Graphics card. Heres where I want to shine. Whats out there now adays. I've heard very good things about gforce 6600gt its that pretty much the best card for the mony hands down or what. What should I get for a Graphics card. I do play games and watch movies so I want a good graphics card.

Well If you guys could help me out and give me the scoop on all this stuff I sould be greatfull and there will be some force for helpfull posts.

Thanks
Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005, 9:07pm

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TommyB

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AMD Venice 64 3500+
Abit AN8 Ultra
Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 GTO² 256MB DDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express)

Those three will give you amazing performance in games. The GTO² is a special version of the X800 chip that clocks above X850 XT PE speeds.

RAM. Im probably going to get 1gig of Ultra ddr pc3200 ram. I guess I dont really have much for questions on ram. Ive heard ddr2 isnt worth looking into.
You're right. DDR2 is a waste of time. As long as you buy a decent brand of memory, it should be fine. Memory doesn't really affect performance too much. However, if you go with AMD 64, ENSURE that you get TWO sticks of 512MB ram. They will then run in dual channel, and perform much faster than one 1GB stick. Most decent memory companies will have a 'Dual Channel' guarantee.


Whats the diffrence between a athalon 64 and a 64x2 and a64fx?
The X2 series is dual core, and many upcoming games, such as UT2007, will be using both cores to enhance performance. The processor will be able to take load (eg Physics calculations) off the graphics card, and thus increase performance.

FX is just incredibly fast, although I'm not sure if it's dual core. Anyways, X2 is the one to get (if you can afford it)

Mother board is there really and diffrence between brands of mother boards if they have the same specs?
Not really, as long as it's based on the NF4 chipset. My motherboard cost £100, and the identically spec'd one in another computer I have cost £50. The performance is practically identical.

Just ENSURE that you get the correct Motherboard/Graphics card combo. You'll want PCI Express, **NOT** AGP.
Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005, 10:52pm

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Pooky

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Ditto what TommyB said. Athlon 64 is the way to go, and I'd go for the 3500 (seeing as it's socket 939, and there are far more socket 939 CPUs than socket 754, which is what the 3700 is. this'll be useful if you ever want to upgrade).

Go for some Value Corsair PC3200 RAM, and get 1GB or more of it (just be sure your mobo has enough RAM slots, and it's better to use 2x512MB than 1x1024MB if your mobo supports dual channel RAM).

For a GPU I recomment the x800GTO2 as well... if you do some research you'll see that you can unlock some pipelines, and then you can use some sort of overclocking tool to get it very close to the x850xtpe (which is awesome).
Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005, 11:41pm

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Colincsl

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mobo-(almost any) Nforce 4 Ultra ~$100
cpu-AMD63 3200 (Venice) $152
gpu-XFX Geforce 6600GT (PCI-E) $149 (or I guess the X800 GTO like others said)
ram-OCZ Value Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) $84

total-$485

You can't use DDR2; AMDs just use DDR(1) at the moment (until socket M comes out Q2 next year)

Semprons-cheap solution
AMD64-base line
AMD 64 FX-enthusiats line; faster clock speeds and better overclocking abilities (afair)
AMD 64 X2-dual core

Pooky- there is a 3700 for both 754 and 939
Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005, 11:59pm

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Pooky

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I wouldn't get a 6600gt considering the x800GTO2's ability to become almost like an x850xtpe.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 12:06am

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A Pickle

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CPU:
For a person who's into video editing, and wants good graphics, I would by all means get a Pentium D 820. A single 2.8 GHz core will perform just fine for gaming, and the dual cores will give you better performance in video/3D applications than an FX-57, a $1,000 single-core processor.

Pentium D 820

GPU:
I would recommend the GTO2 as well, but it's fairly expensive. It's over $200. If you can't do that, go with the plain jane X800 GT... there's nothing that tops that card on the value lineup offered. You do want PCI-E, though, like TommyB said (upgradeability).

ATI Radeon X800 GT

Motherboard:
If you choose to go with an Intel CPU, the best sense tells you that you should take an Intel motherboard. This is a big strength of Intel, is the unmatched stability they offer. Anyways, you'll need a board with a 945G, 945P or 955X chipset-based motherboard. Whee.

Intel 945P System Board

RAM

pooky wrote:

Go for some Value Corsair PC3200 RAM, and get 1GB or more of it (just be sure your mobo has enough RAM slots, and it's better to use 2x512MB than 1x1024MB if your mobo supports dual channel RAM).
DDR2-667 Corsair ValueSelect

Well said, though, if you go with an Intel, you will almost certainly need to go with DDR2. Like pooky said, there's no sense wasting an obscene amount of money for "performance RAM," which *might* give you a whole 100 more MB/sec transfer rate (in other words, nothing). You'll more performance out of 2 gigs of value RAM than 1 gig of "performance" RAM.

TommyB wrote:

You're right. DDR2 is a waste of time.
Incorrect. DDR at DDR2 frequencies consumes far more power than DDR2, this is the advantage of it. It does come at a cost of higher latencies (which is improving over time), but bandwidth means a lot more performance than latencies, particularly on NetBurst (Pentium 4, Pentium D, Xeon) based processors.

Memory Latency Performance Impact

Last edited Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 12:26am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 12:18am

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Pooky

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Don't know that much about Intel CPUs - are Pentium Ds 64 bit? If not, Athlon 64 is still better because then you won't have to buy a new CPU if/when you upgrade to Vista.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 12:27am

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A Pickle

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Pentium D's support EM64T... which is essentially the exact same thing as AMD64 technology. And uh... Vista will work juuuust fine with any Intel CPU.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 12:40am

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Pooky

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Yeah but there's a 64bit and 32bit Vista. Buying the 32bit would be kinda stupid though.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 1:24am

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A Pickle

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I wouldn't say so. Even when Vista comes out, I doubt many programs and drivers will be 64-bit ready. Given that 64-bit doesn't give outlandishly superior performance to 32-bit, I think going with 32-bit Vista or at least having 32-bit as a secondary boot option would be a smart thing to do.

But... the Pentium D's are 64-bit anyways, so the point is moot.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 2:33am

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Pooky

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Well I doubt anyone in his right mind would buy Vista at launch (bugs), so if you wait a year I bet there will be 64bit drivers and programs aplenty. Besides, Windows is expensive, so having to buy the 32bit, and then the 64bit verison is a rather large waste of money.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 4:05am

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A Pickle

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What's interesting is that Vista is going to be considerably cheaper than XP was at launch.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 4:06am

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Pooky

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Yeah, although that depends on which of the 8 versions you'll be getting.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 4:36am

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steelglass

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Wow thanks guys. Um a few questions though. You say to get a pci express graphics card and not an agp one. This goes against what Ive thought. I've always thought that agp was faster that the pci slots. After all the agp slot was made for graphics card. Or am I totaly just not getting what you are saying. And the x800 gt is no dought about it better card than the 6600 gt or do you have to do all this stuff to make it better.(Could you explain the things you said in more detail about it having the capabilities of the higher end card)

One of you are saying to get the pentium and the other the amd. The pentium is more expensive than the amd and so is the mother board. Do they both perform about the same. I am probably going to get vista sometime when it comes out and would like to get into 64 bit tech.

Remember my budget was around $400. I dont think I can aford the gto2 but will the gt work well. Whats the diffrence between the gto and the gt?

Thanks

On a side note. I got to play an xbox 360 today. I played call of duty 2 and it was amazing. I cant wate to play a ps3.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 4:48am

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steelglass

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O one more thing. Should I get a 128 graphics card or a 256. Is the performance a huge difference or not to big. Seing as how the 128 is cheaper.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 5:18am

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A Pickle

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steelglass wrote:

You say to get a pci express graphics card and not an agp one. This goes against what Ive thought. I've always thought that agp was faster that the pci slots.
PCI-E 16x has a transfer rate of 8 GB/sec.
PCI-E 1x has a transfer rate of 500 MB/sec.
AGP 8x has a transfer rate of 4 GB/sec.
PCI has a transfer rate of 133 MB/sec (shared among all your slots)

PCI-E = PCI Express
PCI = PCI (Peripheral Component Interconnect)
AGP = AGP (Accelerated Graphics Port)

steelglass wrote:

The pentium is more expensive than the amd and so is the mother board. Do they both perform about the same.
I'll be honest. In games, you will get far better frame rates with the AMD, however, the Pentium will give plenty good frame rates (I own a 3.0 GHz Pentium 4, and I get 50-140 frames per second in Half-Life 2). However, the advantage you get in games will be nothing to how much performance you will get in video applications with the dual-core Pentium.

Athlon 64 3500+ ~ $201
Pentium D 840 ~ $235

steelglass wrote:

Whats the diffrence between the gto and the gt?
The "GTO" series was an ATI "ploy," for lack of a better term, to get excess X800 and X850 chips out. The GTO is more powerful, but the GT is an excellent "value" card. Plus, GTO just sounds stupid. The X800 GT is the ATI "equivalent" of the 6600GT, though the X800 GT performs a little better.

steelglass wrote:

O one more thing. Should I get a 128 graphics card or a 256. Is the performance a huge difference or not to big. Seing as how the 128 is cheaper.
256 MB, if you can afford it, fer sure.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 2:45pm

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Pooky

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I second all of that smile
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 2:56pm

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steelglass

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OK thanks guys. So I have to make sure I get pci-e 16x than and not 1x? Does it say in the description if its 16x or 1x What I should get then is.

1. amd 64 3500 (939)
2. Some good mother board. I hade to make sure of what now when I got a mother board?
3. x800 gt(not gto) 256mb
4. 2 512mb sticks of ddr pc 3200

Am I right on what I should get.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:02pm

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Pooky

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It will say both in the mobo description and graphic card description if it's 16x

And no:

Pentium D 840
good mobo (PCI-E x16, 4 RAM slots is nice, nForce 4 chipset, right socket for the CPU)
X800GT
2 x 512MB of Value Corsair PC3200 RAM

Last edited Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:02pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:02pm

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TommyB

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steelglass wrote:

OK thanks guys. So I have to make sure I get pci-e 16x than and not 1x? Does it say in the description if its 16x or 1x What I should get then is.

1. amd 64 3500 (939)
2. Some good mother board. I hade to make sure of what now when I got a mother board?
3. x800 gt(not gto) 256mb
4. 2 512mb sticks of ddr pc 3200

Am I right on what I should get.
PCI express is NOTHING to do with PCI. PCI means 1X, PCI-e (or Express) means 16X. Finaly, PCI-X is a strange tiny slot for things like sound cards. Most motherboards have about 2 PCI-x slots, 1 PCI-express slot and 3-5 PCI slots.

Those specs look fine. I've got a 3500+, and it's incredible at both gaming and video editing.

Just make sure your motherboard supports the following,

16 X PCI-Express Slot
Dual Channel Memory Support
NForce 4 Chipset.
Socket 939
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:03pm

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Pooky

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Remember: if you do more normal computer stuff and video than gaming, get the Pentium D.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:04pm

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TommyB

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pooky wrote:

Noo get a Pentium D smile
Unless he's taking video editing very seriously, what's the point.

My Athlon 64 3500+ handles video at incredible speeds. Also, Pentium D is probably more expensive.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:05pm

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Pooky

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Yeah about 30$ more but it'll be muuuuch faster at video work. Dunno, your choice.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:33pm

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steelglass

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O boy. You guys are confusing me. The amd is better for gaming but the pentium is better for editing. How much faster is the pentium at editing. Because it is more expensive and I think the motherboards are too.

Thanks
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 3:40pm

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Pooky

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I'm not sure, so don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a benchmark that showed the Pentium D was about 50% better at compressing and editing than an Athlon 64 3500+. I also seem to remember those same benchmarks showing it to be about 30% less good in games.

I'm not sure though!
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 7:16pm

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steelglass

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One other thing. What chipset should I get? Is there really a diffrence between them or what?
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 7:30pm

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TommyB

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steelglass wrote:

One other thing. What chipset should I get? Is there really a diffrence between them or what?
Try and get NF4 if you're going AMD.

Unless you're working with HD, just get the AMD. I promise you that the video editing performance is fantastic. My machine renders video very quickly. I'll give you an example.

1) I capture about 50 minutes worth of footage in to Vegas.
2) I do a basic edit and trim this down to about 15 minutes.
3) The re-rendering to the PAL-DV Avi file takes about 70 seconds.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 7:57pm

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steelglass

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Ok so the fact that im getting a ati radion card doesnt have any effect on the chipset right? Whats the diffrence between chipsets? Heres the motherboard I think lookes pretty good. What do you guys think. http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=493&MenuID=90&LanID=0

Also does it matter who makes the x800 gt 256 or are they all the same just diffrent outputs. Because I kinda want to get duel dvi outputs.
So is there any diffrence between this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131420&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Video+Cards
and this one. http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/product.asp?pid=12727&sid=XR82NWW1A5A98PHMUXHA6LUAMJ7F1K10
Besides the outputs.

Are pci express x1 and regular pci the same thing? Because I have a firewire card thats a regular pci card. Will that still work with a pci x1?

Thanks
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 8:55pm

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TommyB

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steelglass wrote:

Ok so the fact that im getting a ati radion card doesnt have any effect on the chipset right? Whats the diffrence between chipsets? Heres the motherboard I think lookes pretty good. What do you guys think. http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=493&MenuID=90&LanID=0

Also does it matter who makes the x800 gt 256 or are they all the same just diffrent outputs. Because I kinda want to get duel dvi outputs.
So is there any diffrence between this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131420&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Video+Cards
and this one. http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/product.asp?pid=12727&sid=XR82NWW1A5A98PHMUXHA6LUAMJ7F1K10
Besides the outputs.

Are pci express x1 and regular pci the same thing? Because I have a firewire card thats a regular pci card. Will that still work with a pci x1?

Thanks
Yes, your firewire card will work in a normal PCI slot.

Both makes of GFX cards you've chosen are good ones.

That motherboard is fine.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 9:20pm

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Kid

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pooky wrote:

I'm not sure, so don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a benchmark that showed the Pentium D was about 50% better at compressing and editing than an Athlon 64 3500+. I also seem to remember those same benchmarks showing it to be about 30% less good in games.
No the difference is nowhere near that much for either editing or games. Also if you have 64bit programs the Athlon will actually be faster for video work.

The Athlon is way better value. Plus the 64bit will work with XP and Vista 64bit versions whereas the 64bit pentiums currently out wont.

steelglass wrote:

Are pci express x1 and regular pci the same thing? Because I have a firewire card thats a regular pci card. Will that still work with a pci x1?
PCI Express 1x is not the same as PCI. It is also not PCI-X.

Think of PCI Express as simply the next version of AGP. The similarity in name is just confusing. The 16x ports are for graphics cards. Motherboards generally have 1 or 2 of these depending on if they support dual graphics or not. They also may have the small 1x ports which at the moment are useless but in the future will take the sort of board that is currently available as PCI. The 1x ports are intended to replace PCI in the long term but currently will be alongside regular PCI ports as the old PCI cards will not fit in the new ports.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 10:02pm

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A Pickle

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Kid wrote:

No the difference is nowhere near that much for either editing or games. Also if you have 64bit programs the Athlon will actually be faster for video work.
The fact that the Pentium D is dual core and 64-bit will lead it to perform faster than the 3500+ in all multithreaded applications (video editing, 3D animation, etc). The 3500+ has a stronger advantage in single threaded applications (gaming), but the Pentium D will flatly annihilate it in anything else, given that the "measly" Pentium D can outperform an FX-55 in multithreaded applications.

The Pentium D 820, at 2.8 GHz, can outperform the Pentium 4 670 at 3.8 GHz. Respectfully, that Pentium 4 will outperform the 3500+, and the Pentium D will conversely annihilate both of them in every multithreaded application in existence. Considering also that gaming will soon be making a leap towards multithreading, the Pentium D is the choice processor so you can adopt dual-core technology and 64-bit memory addressing in one processor.

64-bit computing.

Pentium D 820.

As you can see from the above two benchmarks, 64-bit computing offers nowhere near the performance advantage that dual-core does, especially considering that you need a special 64-bit operating system and 64-bit software and drivers to take advantage of 64-bit. Currently, fewer programs support 64-bit operation than support multithreading. The Athlon will get better gaming performance, but that's what GPU's are for.

If you can't afford the Pentium D, however, the Athlon64 3500+ would be an excellent deal. Given the performance advantage offered by the Pentium D, however, I would highly, highly, recommend that processor. Dual core is the way of the future. biggrin

Kid wrote:

The Athlon is way better value. Plus the 64bit will work with XP and Vista 64bit versions whereas the 64bit pentiums currently out wont.
...What?

As you can see in the above benchmark, they clearly use a Pentium 4 660 (64-bit Pentium 4, 3.6 GHz) in Windows XP 64-bit edition.

Kid wrote:

PCI Express 1x is not the same as PCI. It is also not PCI-X.
PCIe x1 is PCI Express, which is merely the "modern" incarnation of PCI technology. PCI-E is merely a modern implementation of the PCI bus.

PCI Express.

Kid wrote:

Think of PCI Express as simply the next version of AGP.
PCI-E x16 is currently the "AGP replacement," though PCI-E x1 and x4 are someday to replace the PCI slots (finally biggrin).
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:09pm

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Pooky

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Also, don't buy from dodgy sites. If you're in the US, newegg is fantastic.

Kid - ah, ok.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:11pm

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rogolo

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After reading some of these responses, I feel really, really stupid. Really, really stupid.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:13pm

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Pooky

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Yeah but you haven't heard anything about RAM frequencies and CPU multipliers/fsb yet. See, when I take my Athlon XP 2600+ and overclock the fsb to 186 from 166 and keep the multiplier at 11.5, my AGP clock speeds usually go up to around 68mhz because my mobo's BIOS doesn't have AGP clock locking. This means that I can't overclock... don't even mention tightening my little brandless PC2700 RAM's 2.5-3-3-3.5 timings.


biggrin
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:19pm

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rogolo

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Haven't you ever heard that it's not nice to make fun of the handicapped kid? Mean little pooky....
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:21pm

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Kid

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A Pickle wrote:

Kid wrote:

No the difference is nowhere near that much for either editing or games. Also if you have 64bit programs the Athlon will actually be faster for video work.
The fact that the Pentium D is dual core and 64-bit will lead it to perform faster than the 3500+ in all multithreaded applications (video editing, 3D animation, etc). The 3500+ has a stronger advantage in single threaded applications (gaming), but the Pentium D will flatly annihilate it in anything else, given that the "measly" Pentium D can outperform an FX-55 in multithreaded applications.
This is a stupid comparison to make. The 3.6Ghz Pentium D will of course beat a 3500+ because you are not comparing like with like. Its like saying hey don't buy a Ford because a Ferrari is tons better. You are completely overlooking the fact that it is several times the price.

The fact is that if you have bottomless pockets you would get dual Xeon processors, but people don't so AMD offers the best power for money. If you compare your benchmarks with an Athlon X2 you will see that the Pentium D isn't all that special at all.

Gaming has been supposedly making the leap to multiprocessing for years and years. It won't for a while because not enough people have those cpus and secondly the cpu power is not generally the bottleneck.

Kid wrote:

The Athlon is way better value. Plus the 64bit will work with XP and Vista 64bit versions whereas the 64bit pentiums currently out wont.
...What?

As you can see in the above benchmark, they clearly use a Pentium 4 660 (64-bit Pentium 4, 3.6 GHz) in Windows XP 64-bit edition.
The older version of 64bit pentium doesn't work. The new emt64 ones will but they do more in 32bit than the Athlon64 so don't run 64bit apps so well.


Kid wrote:

PCI Express 1x is not the same as PCI. It is also not PCI-X.
PCIe x1 is PCI Express, which is merely the "modern" incarnation of PCI technology. PCI-E is merely a modern implementation of the PCI bus.

PCI Express.

Kid wrote:

Think of PCI Express as simply the next version of AGP.
PCI-E x16 is currently the "AGP replacement," though PCI-E x1 and x4 are someday to replace the PCI slots (finally biggrin).
Thats what I already said smile AGP is simply a modern incarnation of PCI too, PCI-E is the next step.

PCI-E wont be replacing PCI any time soon since there is too much legacy stuff around. Just look at how long ISA lasted. It will replace AGP quickly since people only have 1 graphics card which they tend to replace more often than the motherboard. Hence why VESA, PCI (for graphics) and AGP are all easily replaced whereas ISA or PCI linger for ages for general purpose cards.
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:24pm

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rogolo

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Awww. I'm so left out.... sad
Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2005, 11:42pm

Post 38 of 69

Kid

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rogolo wrote:

Awww. I'm so left out.... sad
Its pretty easy smile

Just get...
-The fastest socket 939 Athlon 64 you can afford. An X2 if you have that much.
-A motherboard with NForce4 chipset, PCI-E and socket 939.
-Memory of the speed required by the mobo you pick (In 2 sticks)
-PCI-E graphics card with 256Mb ram or more.

That way its the best value and will be as future proof as it can be.

What you buy for a graphics card is a whole other choice in itself smile
Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2005, 12:12am

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A Pickle

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This is a stupid comparison to make. The 3.6Ghz Pentium D will of course beat a 3500+ because you are not comparing like with like.
This isn't a stupid comparison to make, at ALL. There is no such thing as a 3.6 GHz Pentium D, and the Pentium D 820 (which I was talking about) runs at 2.8 GHz.

You are completely overlooking the fact that it is several times the price.
The Pentium D 820 is $245, the Athlon64 3500+ is $200.

If you compare your benchmarks with an Athlon X2 you will see that the Pentium D isn't all that special at all.
You will also find that no Athlon64 X2 is offered at $245, where a dual core Pentium is. Otherwise, I would have recommended an X2 3800+.

Gaming has been supposedly making the leap to multiprocessing for years and years.
Hopefully, with the increased focuse of physics in games, more CPU threads will be utilized. biggrin

The older version of 64bit pentium doesn't work. The new emt64 ones will but they do more in 32bit than the Athlon64 so don't run 64bit apps so well.
While it's true the Pentiums work better in 32-bit mode than in 64-bit mode, they run 64-bit applications just fine, as specified in that benchmark. The Athlon64's K8 architecture is better than the Pentium 4's NetBurst architecture for the 64-bit memory addressing, but, this is on paper only. You won't notice a difference.
Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2005, 6:33pm

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Kid

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A Pickle wrote:

This is a stupid comparison to make. The 3.6Ghz Pentium D will of course beat a 3500+ because you are not comparing like with like.
This isn't a stupid comparison to make, at ALL. There is no such thing as a 3.6 GHz Pentium D, and the Pentium D 820 (which I was talking about) runs at 2.8 GHz.
You in fact compared the 2.8Ghz dual core and the 3.8 single core. Neither of these is supposed to be the same speed as an amd processor rated at 3500!

You are completely overlooking the fact that it is several times the price.
The Pentium D 820 is $245, the Athlon64 3500+ is $200.
I don't know where you are digging these prices out from, the Pentium D 820 is nearly twice the price of an Athlon 64 3500, the 3.8Ghz almost a 3rd.

If you compare your benchmarks with an Athlon X2 you will see that the Pentium D isn't all that special at all.
You will also find that no Athlon64 X2 is offered at $245, where a dual core Pentium is. Otherwise, I would have recommended an X2 3800+.
The Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2Ghz) is the same price as the Pentium D 830 (3.0Ghz) and yet benchmarks faster than the Pentium D 840 (3.2Ghz).

The Athlon also has the other major advantage that it runs a lot cooler. This is a key factor if you are going to overclock or try and make a silent pc.
Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2005, 7:45pm

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A Pickle

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You in fact compared the 2.8Ghz dual core and the 3.8 single core. Neither of these is supposed to be the same speed as an amd processor rated at 3500!
Irrelevant. The point here is price-to-performance, and the Pentium D 820 offers the best ratio, at a low price to boot anyways.

I don't know where you are digging these prices out from, the Pentium D 820 is nearly twice the price of an Athlon 64 3500, the 3.8Ghz almost a 3rd.
I never recommended the Pentium 4 670, despite the fact that is an excellent performer in video applications. The Pentium D 820, however, would almost certainly beat it in nearly all of these video applications, while costing a third the price. In any case, the Athlon64 3500+ would not stand a chance next to the Pentium D 820 in video applications, and the Pentium D 820 would perform just fine in games, which rely on GPU more than CPU.

The Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2Ghz) is the same price as the Pentium D 830 (3.0Ghz) and yet benchmarks faster than the Pentium D 840 (3.2Ghz).
Of course, I haven't disputed that, however, the Pentium D 830 is a good $50 below what the 3800+ costs.
Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2005, 10:37pm

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steelglass

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You guys are tearing me apart. But heres a question. Will the amd 64 3500 perform much greater than my current processor(pentium 4 2.4 800mhz fsb 512k cache)? Will it perform alot faster?

On the x800 gt 256 is it worth going up to the gto or is there not much diffrence. An I cant seem to find a gto with duel dvi outputs. Do they make the gto with duel dvi?
Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2005, 11:40pm

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A Pickle

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Will the amd 64 3500 perform much greater than my current processor(pentium 4 2.4 800mhz fsb 512k cache)? Will it perform alot faster?
It will perform faster in everything, and I imagine you'd see a significant increase in performance overall.

On the x800 gt 256 is it worth going up to the gto or is there not much diffrence.
Might just as well push it up to the GTO. Not the GTO2, as that is significantly more expensive, but the GTO.

Here's one.

An I cant seem to find a gto with duel dvi outputs. Do they make the gto with duel dvi?
I believe only Nvidia offers dual DVI outputs on their cards, while ATI ships their cards with a VGA and a DVI output, and they include a VGA-DVI adapter.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 12:22am

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Pooky

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I would buy only from Newegg.com if you're buying the parts on the internet and are in the USA!

They really are fantastic, and they need money so they can grow and come to Canada biggrin Great cutomer service and great prices, too.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 4:56am

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steelglass

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It will perform faster in everything, and I imagine you'd see a significant increase in performance overall.
Even it editing and using multiple programs.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 5:22am

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A Pickle

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Even it editing and using multiple programs.
Yeah. I have to say it though, the Pentium D will vastly outperform it in just about everything except gaming.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 11:58am

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Pooky

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So basically:

Buy from Newegg.com if you're in America.

Get an Athlon 64 3500+ if you're more of a gamer
Get a Pentium D 820 if you're more of a filmmaker

Get a motherboard that has the same socket as the CPU you get, with an nForce 4 chipset, PCI-Express graphics card slot, 4 dual channel DDR RAM slots, I recommend getting an Asus brand if you can

and for your graphics card get an x800gto


And buy from Newegg.com if you're in America.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 9:14pm

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steelglass

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Ok heres the deal. Why is the gto better the the gt. I looked at the specs and the core clock on the gt was 475mhz and the gto was only 400mhz. So wouldn't that make the gt faster than the gto. The only other diffrence is that the gto PixelPipelines is 12 and the gt is 8. Does that make a noticable performance upgrade or what. I just dont see much diffrence in performance between the two. But like I said before Im all old knowledge.

Thanks

EDITE: Pooky I get it I get it you dont have to keep going on about buying from newegg. smile hugegrin

EDITE: A pickle Its not that I dont want to get a pentium d its that I dont have the money. The mother boards for the pentiumd are also more expensive that the amd 64 ones so with a mother board it would put me over $100 more expensive the the amd cpu and mother board. If they werent that much more expensive I would deeply consider getting a pentium d.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 9:37pm

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A Pickle

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The fact that the GTO has 4 more pixel pipelines than the GT will result in a far greater performance advantage than the 75 MHz the GT has on the GTO.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 9:47pm

Post 50 of 69

Pooky

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Besides, you can overclock the GTO and get some of that 75mhz back (not that it'll make a huge difference). And as Pickle said, pixel pipelines are important.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 9:57pm

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A Pickle

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Or you can flash it, and run it like an X800 XT or X850 XT PE. Whee.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 10:09pm

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Pooky

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It's flashable too? Neat.
Posted: Tue, 8th Nov 2005, 10:11pm

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Kid

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A Pickle wrote:

I believe only Nvidia offers dual DVI outputs on their cards, while ATI ships their cards with a VGA and a DVI output, and they include a VGA-DVI adapter.
Its worth noting that the vga-dvi adapter gives you 2 vgas and not 2 dvis.
Posted: Wed, 9th Nov 2005, 12:48am

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steelglass

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What do you mean bye its flashable. What is flashable.
Posted: Wed, 9th Nov 2005, 12:54am

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Pooky

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Not quite sure, but I think it means installing the BIOS for another card, thus unlocking the features that card has... but it only works for specific cards that turn into other specific cards.
Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005, 8:53pm

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outsiderlookingin

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Go buy a dual core opteron, a nvidia quadro card or fireGL from ati, some ecc RAM, and you're good to go.

If you can't afford that just make sure you get a 64 bit chip and pci-e. It will help you in the near future.
Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005, 9:48pm

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A Pickle

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outsiderlookingin wrote:

Go buy a dual core opteron, a nvidia quadro card or fireGL from ati, some ecc RAM, and you're good to go.
$400 budget. Not gonna happen.
Posted: Fri, 11th Nov 2005, 10:38pm

Post 58 of 69

Pooky

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I'm updating my CPU too and have been doing some research:

ASRock 939DUAL-SATA2 seems like a fantastic mobo for the money:

-It has both AGP8x and PCI-Express x16
-It's socket 939 but later on you'll be able to add a card that upgrades it to socket M2 and DDR2 memory
-Has SATA2 and supports Raid 0 and 1
-Performance is 5% less than higher end mobos at most, but it's the drivers/BIOS's fault so it will be fixed in an update... not that it's noticeable anyway
-75 US$
Posted: Sat, 12th Nov 2005, 2:18am

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A Pickle

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The S.D.G.E technology? Scalable Dual Graphics Engines? Yeah... those're pretty sweet. biggrin
Posted: Sat, 12th Nov 2005, 3:25am

Post 60 of 69

Pooky

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Huh?
Posted: Wed, 16th Nov 2005, 1:02am

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steelglass

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Hey guys one more thing. About ram. Besides how big it is and how many mhz it runs at what are the other things that make ram run faster than the same size and speed of another brand? What is cas and is that a big factor or not really? Because the ram I want to get has a cas of 3 is that bad or good. I only need one stick 512 because I already have another one, can you mix ram with diffrent cas or no?
Posted: Wed, 16th Nov 2005, 1:14am

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er-no

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SuperUser

http://www.crucial.com/

Read all about that at Crucial.com

Fantastic website, that'll make sure you buy the best and most suited RAM, as well as giving you all the answers as to what the random numbers mean wink
Posted: Wed, 16th Nov 2005, 2:29am

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A Pickle

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I would definitely recommend going to Crucial.com to learn more about RAM, as er-no has suggested. While they are trying to sell you their RAM, they provide accurate information that is applicable to memory as a whole.

Besides how big it is and how many mhz it runs at what are the other things that make ram run faster than the same size and speed of another brand?
Not really. Unlike processors, a 400 MHz Corsair stick will run "just" as fast as a 400 MHz Crucial stick. One will run faster than the other, but the difference is so incredibly minimal...

What is cas and is that a big factor or not really?
Many people will maintain that CAS latencies are an extremely important factor... and... truth be told.. they really are not. Performance comes mainly from bandwidth, and while low latencies will yeild better performance, the difference between a CAS of 2 and a CAS of 3 is really notwithstanding (nor is it worth the amount of money you pay for that CAS of 2).

CAS latencies are some tough concepts. I still fully don't understand what they actually are. I am able to make input on their performance impact due to a benchmark available here.

I only need one stick 512 because I already have another one, can you mix ram with diffrent cas or no?
You can. In all likelihood, however, your computer will default to the lower cas latency for both sticks.
Posted: Wed, 16th Nov 2005, 2:32am

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wdy

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I bought an HP Media Center PC and I love it. Its came with a 200 GB Hard Drive, P4 3.2 GHZ, 1GB DDR RAM expandable to 4GB, DVD Writer, CD Drive, Connections at the front and back, then extra features like cable for watching TV using the Media Center with the remote. Overall I have not problems editing with Premiere on this machine.. its always ran smooth. Now here at college I do use Macs with Final Cut Pro and I must say if I ever get a chance to go for a Mac I'd go for it. My Media Center bundles was about $1900 CAN and came with a 19" HP Flat LCD Monitor and all in one printer. Check out some HP Media Center Machines, or go for the Mac!
Posted: Wed, 16th Nov 2005, 5:45pm

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steelglass

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Ok thanks,

I think Im going to get ultra ram. You can look at it here.http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=586829&Tab=0&NoMapp=0

What do you think.
Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005, 5:14pm

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Steeb

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Since we're discussing Corsair's ValueSelect Ram, I have a quick question I thought I'd toss in: what's the difference between these two packages on newegg? As far as I can tell, the only difference (besides price) is that one has a Cas Latency of 2.5 while the other is 3. What's strange is that the lower-latency sticks are cheaper. Am I missing something?
Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005, 7:25pm

Post 67 of 69

A Pickle

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No, probably not. Companies'll want to move to the better technology, but they can't do it all at once. All the same, if they've got old sticks out there that are still just fine, they might just as well make money off of them.

So, that's what you're seeing. Of course, no one in their right mind would go for the $81 pair... so... consider yourself lucky. biggrin
Posted: Sat, 3rd Dec 2005, 5:05am

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steelglass

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Hey guys,

I think Im going to be able to roundup a bit more money so I was wondering if I should step up from the 64s to the 64+x2. Its about a $165 diffrence and I hear dual core cpus are really nice for running multipule programs. My question is will I lose gaming performance if I decide to go with the x2s or are they faster in every aspect the the regular 64s. And how does this motherboard look. http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=90&LanID=9&DetailID=493&DetailName=Feature

And one more thing if I do get some more money is the cpu the best thing to upgrade or should I upgrade something else.

Thanks
Posted: Sat, 3rd Dec 2005, 7:09pm

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steelglass

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Hey I need an answer pretty quick. I was reading on mobos and I found that this is a pretty nice one. http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=3471&CATEGORY_TYPE=LP&SITE=US

I just want to make sure I can use it with just one PCIe x16 video card. Im pretty sure you can I just want to make sure. What do you guys think of this mobo. I need some answers soon because Im looking at one on ebay and it had and hour and a half left on the auction.

EDITE: I see some power supply have 20 pin and 24 pin what are the 24 pin ones for? I only need a 20 pin for a amd 62+x2 right? Is there a certain number that tells you how many ide hook ups a certain power supply has or what cuz I dont know how many certain ones have.