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Some CG - What do you think?

Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 7:08pm

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SMB

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OK i have been working on some CG stuff recently using cinema 4D, I was wondering what you think of this shot i did.



its not amzing but i think its ok
Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 8:06pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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A little more depth of field is needed, since the whole shot is in focus all att once. Also, you might want to blur the bullet a bit since it is quite edgy right now. Other than that, really good.
Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 9:08pm

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SMB

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ok what about his then, i have reduced the contrast levels aswell



its getting beter
Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 10:00pm

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NuttyBanana

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looks good as a still but i guess for a movie its how it looks in motion, you got a video clip of it in action?
Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 10:45pm

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SMB

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not yet, im working on it, shouldnt be hard to do though

SMB - next weekend
Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005, 11:18pm

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Arktic

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Rating: +1

I'm not sure I like the coloured 'bullet time ripples' - they look really weird. It'd look better if they were just ripples, rather than big gold circles.

Also, what's with the dent at the front of the bullet?

Redhawksrymmer wrote:

A little more depth of field is needed, since the whole shot is in focus all att once.
Just to point out - you're using the term 'depth of field' wrong there, Redhawksrymmer. It's a minor point, but technically it makes a lot of difference.

When you have a large depth of field, it means that a large distance remains in focus from the camera. The more shallow the depth of field, the shorter the distance at which objects go out of focus.

So when everyone says "add depth of field" in response to questions over how to get 'film look', they acctually mean 'LESSEN the depth of field'.

As I say, a very minor point, but it does help to use the right words when you're talking about this kinda thing.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 1:01am

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BlueSmudge

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I assume the bullet is a hollow tip, so that dent could exist, but I think you have the coloring all wrong. Its too gold and the dent would be the same color.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 3:35am

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Serpent

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I actually want to know more about the muzzle flash, looks authentic. Could you give us some info? It looks ok, maybe change the bullet time ripples and the weird threshhold looking dent in the front, looks like cigarette ash.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 12:58pm

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Sollthar

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Work on the overall texture of the bullet. It doesn't look good really... :I
The yellow color is odd, it should have a bit of reflection.

And yes, why are the bullet ripples colored? They shouldn't be completely visible at all; only disturb the background image in a certain way. But the ripples are no solid material.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 6:44pm

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SMB

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hey thanks for comments everyone

Solthar:

I know you are a fellow Cinema 4D user, and a hell of alot better at it than me, how would i go about mking the helix texture distort the backround image, if i made it transparant an added blur or something

help would be great

SMB
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 6:51pm

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SMB

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And another thing,

BlueSmudge wrote:

I assume the bullet is a hollow tip, so that dent could exist, but I think you have the coloring all wrong. Its too gold and the dent would be the same color.
Actually most hollow tip bullets have the end a different colour

e.g



But yes some hollow tips are one bullet and one colour

{EDIT}

Sorry for re-posting, next time ill edit

SMB
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 7:28pm

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Sollthar

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Are you working with Cinema4D SMB?

It's really just a few steps that will increase the look of your bullet by a lot.

First you should make the bullet-material a bit reflective (maybe somewhat around 20 to 30%?) and make sure, your background plate will be reflected (You can do that by mapping it onto a sphere outside of the camera range).

Apply a "ripple" material to the ripples with a transparent material, not reflective. There is an option in the newer versions of cinema to distort the background. If you have that option, use it.


Hope that helps. smile
Let us know how it goes!
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 8:09pm

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SMB

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i have a new version,

where do i find this distort tool

i am quite new to cinema 4D i am afraid

lol

SMB
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:09pm

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SMB

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ok, this is another attempt. I have changed the gold colour, added a better texture, plus bump and reflection.

I have tried to make the lines distort the image a bit, but it is kind of hard to do, im getting better though:

Here it is



comments and critizm welcome

SMB
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:23pm

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sk8npirate

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Bullet looks cool but the rings still looks wierd. You need to have the rings displace the background, not being a completely solid object on their own.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:28pm

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SMB

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i know, but it is hard - lol

I am trying to it, but its hard cus usually i just end up loosing the rings, or it looking weird, ill keep tweaking it
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:30pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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SMB wrote:

i know, but it is hard - lol

I am trying to it, but its hard cus usually i just end up loosing the rings, or it looking weird, ill keep tweaking it
It's not hard at all whatsoever, infact it's very very easy. Just set the transparancy higher and increase the refraction slightly.

Not the most difficult of 3d techniques, sometimes you just need to learn where stuff is and what it does. wink

-Hybrid.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:38pm

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pcremag

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SMB wrote:

ok, this is another attempt. I have changed the gold colour, added a better texture, plus bump and reflection.

I have tried to make the lines distort the image a bit, but it is kind of hard to do, im getting better though:

Here it is



comments and critizm welcome

SMB
HOLY CRAP!!!! Thats freaking cool!
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:49pm

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SMB

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Hybrid - lol

i just looked at the refraction thing before i looked at your post, it looks really cool now, pic comig in a minute. I am hoping ot put this into an animation soon.

SMB
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 9:55pm

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SMB

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Heres pic, used full transparency and 1.007 refraction, laured 3 helix's over each other two distort the pictures as if a vullet has ripped through it

pic:



more critism would be great

SMB

P.S -

Thank you pcremag for the comments, i apreciate it
and everyone else too
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 11:18pm

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Sollthar

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Ah! Much better!

A minor detail:

I'd reduce the bumpmap on the bullets texture a bit and add a slight blur to the whol CG elements (so it matches the less exact CCDs of your camera better). But this is just finetuning.

Congrats! Looks tons better then before.
Posted: Mon, 21st Nov 2005, 11:22pm

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Sollthar

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Ah, heh. I just noticed another thing:

Bullet Ripples are actually audio shockwaves, I think? So they should be expanding in size once they are emmited from the bullet.

So basically, your bullet ripple trail should be thinnest AT the bullet and then continuingly increase in size (and fade in transparency) further back the bullets trail - if I'm not mistaken.


So if my assumption is true, the waveforms should have a different curve then the one you modelled on your pic.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 12:14am

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er-no

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Sollthar is right.
His country is run by spiders who holster guns. In Switzerland you occasionally see said talked about bullet trail with sound curves etc.

Just for your interest. Here are some cool photos of bullets leaving guns:


ShadowGRAPH of a bullet passing through wind or something... wink


And to confirm what Sollthar said somewhat:

Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 2:07pm

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CurtinParloe

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It looks pretty awesome.
Just one thing, the bullet is going in slightly the wrong direction, compared to the gun barrel. It might not be noticable in the final shot, but it would annoy me if it was in my film and I'd not noticed till later.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 3:27pm

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SMB

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yeah i noticed that bullet thing after i had rendered it too - and yes it pissed me off - lol

Thanks for the comments guys, ill look into the rings and distortion in the trail, maybe ill come up with something better and post it,

thanks again

SMB
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 3:48pm

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Bryce007

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what version of cinema 4D are you using?
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 3:57pm

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SMB

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i am using, dum dum dum (looks under help, info)

I am using Cinema 4D v.9 i think it is one of the new ones, i bought it recently so it must be i suppose

by the way, i made another adjustment, i made the waves get bigger and altered the shape slighly

IMAGE


SMB

Oh yer another thing,

is their a way of using a plane/wall, then instead of adding a picture like i did, add a video file. This would be usefull becuase then it would distort the image, whereas if i just composited it after it would distort the background image. If you know what i mean.

It would just be a bulet flying past the camera

tips anyone?

Thanks SMB cool
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 9:03pm

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pcremag

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SMB wrote:

i am using, dum dum dum (looks under help, info)

I am using Cinema 4D v.9 i think it is one of the new ones, i bought it recently so it must be i suppose

by the way, i made another adjustment, i made the waves get bigger and altered the shape slighly

IMAGE


SMB

Oh yer another thing,

is their a way of using a plane/wall, then instead of adding a picture like i did, add a video file. This would be usefull becuase then it would distort the image, whereas if i just composited it after it would distort the background image. If you know what i mean.

It would just be a bulet flying past the camera

tips anyone?

Thanks SMB cool
You gotta release some stock footage like this!
Posted: Tue, 22nd Nov 2005, 10:42pm

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Arktic

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Stock footage, in this case, would be useless.

3D effects canot satisfactoraly be composited onto shots for which they were not specifically created - they almost always look bad.

Also, the effect in play here distorts the background image - so rendering out stock footage with an alpha channel is pointless. An overlay such as stock footage cannot affect the background which is it placed upon.

If you want these kind of effects, you either have to learn 3D, or find someone to do it for you.

SMB - that's looking great now. I'd be tempted to reduce the bump map a little as the bullet is looking a tad too rough. But other than that it's fantastic!

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 1:23am

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The Chosen One

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The image looks good, I have never used Cinema 4D but maybe if you could add a small motion blur to the bullet ( to look like it was spinning) would make the image look more realistic. (just a thought)
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 5:57pm

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SMB

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thanks arktic and thechosenone

adding the small motion blur


Adding motion blur in cinema 4D is really easy, BUT when i did it with the rotation it just makes the bullet really smooth, if you know what i mean. I wil tweak with it though and see what i can do.

Stock footage


Arktic is correct, stock footage of this would be pointess. You would NOT get the ripple behind the bullet refracting the image, all you would get is a bullet. If you just want a bullet spining towards and past the camera then i can do that, but there really isnt much point.

Future Animation

I am hoping of filming me shooting the gun and then placing the film on a plane/wall in cinema 4D like i did with the bullet. I am not sure f you can do this though, ill have to experiment.

Actually i have an idea - if i film me shooting it then just select a good frame and capture the image, place it on the plane then that would work to.

Anyway i am rambling now and it probably doesnt make any sense what so ever -lol.

Thanks for all of your comments guys, ill keep you posted on any updates with the animated version.

Thanks again
cool SMB cool
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 6:10pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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You can set a background object and texture it with a texture with a video loaded into its colour channel, yes.
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 6:28pm

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SMB

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cool,

ill do it maybe tonight, or on saturday, thanks

SMB
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 10:11pm

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SMB

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FORGET ABOUT SATURDAY, IVE DONE IT TONIGHT

bare in mind this is a first and very rushly composited and editing example of what things could be done with it.

I have uploaded it to yousendit, im not sure how long the link lasts, so ill try to find a better host. Meanwhile this will have to do

http://s54.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=08UHHYS893GID1ZSHQ0UIDBSYO

please post comments and tips

all critism apreciated

thanks
SMB

[EDIT]

P.S

Sorry for the bad video ad audio compression on this mpg, i tried to get it as small as possible, so it will have to do for know, SMB
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 10:22pm

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mattio

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i think the bullets very jittery. You want it to run smoothly so I think you should split a bit of the scene and slow it down so it will run much more smoothly and not jittery etc. A slow motion bullet should be in slow motion you need to change the clip to slow motion and THEN you add the bullet so it could last longer and would not look such as fast and jittery. You also need to deinterlace the footage.
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 10:31pm

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AAAx2

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I would also like to know about that muzzle flash. Very cool looking.
Posted: Wed, 23rd Nov 2005, 11:00pm

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SMB

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apologies for the aliasing,

and yes it does need to be in slow motion, this was a rough example of the effect in action, i will produce a final product in the near future,

apologies again

SMB

[EDIT]

the muzzle flash isnt just one layer, alot of people just use a standard muzzle flash. what do is take some smoke effects and muzzle flashes and combine/layer them together (compositing)

to get a realistic muzzle flash play around with the settings in effects lab

i might post a simple tutorial sometime,

SMB
Posted: Thu, 24th Nov 2005, 12:52pm

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Sollthar

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Add a bit more motion blur - scene blur would work best I think - and work out your compositing settings. The background plate looks noticably different in the part you've rendered. The cuts are cleary visible.

Oh, and get rid of the "I'm trying to be funny and cool face"... wink
Posted: Thu, 24th Nov 2005, 1:07pm

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Bryce007

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Oh...the macabre images will soon transfer into nightmares...


The Bullet moves more like a rocket than a handgun bullet. Also, Keep in mind desert eagles are usually chambered for 357 mag, So if you were planning on using that in whatever movie this is a test for, You might try making it look more like the actual bulletnose. The muzzleflash is abit Big as well, and add some more motion blur for sure...
Posted: Thu, 24th Nov 2005, 3:31pm

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SMB

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solthar wrote:

Oh, and get rid of the "I'm trying to be funny and cool face"...
NEVER - lol

thanks for the comments guys, its really helpfull. I wanted the backround film to slow down alot when te bullet was fire, almost still, can you change the rate that the movie plays at in cinema 4D i dont know if you can or not. I have looked but i find anything

Thanks again
SMB
Posted: Sat, 26th Nov 2005, 9:26pm

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BlueSmudge

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It seems that the bullet exits the barrel before the muzzle flash and recoil which looks odd. A little better timing would go a long way.
Posted: Sat, 26th Nov 2005, 9:56pm

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LilCaesars

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slow the video down in your nle accordingly and then edit it in cinema 4d
Posted: Sat, 26th Nov 2005, 10:57pm

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SMB

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thanks

i am going to try and film a better shot tommorow, and then take all your advice,

SMB