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Improving FXhome - feedback needed!

Which is most important?

Simpler quickstart guide2%[ 4 ]
Example projects included with installation20%[ 36 ]
More online tutorials17%[ 32 ]
Video tutorials49%[ 90 ]
Easier FXhome purchase system3%[ 5 ]
In-program interactive tips & guidance9%[ 17 ]

Total Votes : 184

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:21pm

Post 1 of 132

Simon K Jones

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FXhome Team Member

Rating: +4

The last few months have brought many changes to FXhome, with new products and lots of fresh faces in the community. There’s still lots to do and we thought this was a good time to ask you guys for your feedback on what can be improved.

We have many thousands of demo downloads a month, yet our actual sales are only a tiny percentage of that number. This means that people are trying the demo but not buying the final product - we need to know why.

Our question to the community is: what were your first impressions of your FXhome product? What did you like, and what didn’t you like? How do you think we can improve the experience for people that try the demo and new users? Finally, what convinced you to buy an FXhome product?

We’ve added a poll to this news post (click the 'View' button below if you can't see it), but we’d love to hear some detailed feedback from you all. This year is crucial to the future support and development of FXhome products, so we want to make sure we get it right!

Thanks for your continued support and comments, it is much appreciated by all of us in the team!

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:30pm

Post 2 of 132

JDC

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I think it would be a really good idea to have some example projects with the product, to show what can be done with a bit of thought. Also you could play around with the project and change stuff, getting use to the program even more.

I would also like to see some video tutorials on how you made the project, or how to do some more complex animation, maybe stuff like that. (i would have voted for that as well, but i could only do one!)

EDIT: Things i like about Effectlab Pro:-

- Its very simple to use
- Creates Stunning effects
- Great 'Preset' Idea
- Can edit the actual video as well

Things to maybe improve:

- The title screen with all the credits, takes a bit long to dissapear (or is it just me?)
- make the timeline more visable (bigger)
- the speed in which it preview renders (still a bit slow)


Just my thoughts,

Josh.

Last edited Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:36pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:35pm

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Oeyvind

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Well, I loved the FXhome products ever since I first visited this site, and so I have no complaines... I really loved the fact that for a tiny mount of money I could make proffesional FX, and I don't think I've ever been disapointed. I thought the interface was really easy to learn, and the online support is great! The reason I don't buy VisionLab is simply because I don't have the money, and the fact that I'm aleady very pleased with the Pro and DV products as they are. What didn't I like...? Hmm... I've always liked the whole FXhome consept, so I can't answer that question. To extend the demo experience they might get to do small test-renders, with a watermark or a limited resolution or something... I don't know. (Sorry if this is already possible. tard ) The thing that convinced me to buy the products was all the different things I could do with them. There wasn't like only one or two features, there's not much limits.. (And the fact that I've been wanting to make FX like these for about 5 years or so) biggrin All in all, there's not much I can say that's negative, so I'll just say: Great work FXhome team, I love your work! Thanx...

Oeyvind
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:35pm

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Klut

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I think everything is perfekt as it is...

Tutorials doesn't really show me new stuff lately, but if you have some really new ways to use visionlab, that I haven't known, I would love tutorials of that.
I remember how surprised I was when I saw that chromy could do tron effects razz

Still I vote Video Tutorials, not cause I need them, but cause they could be nice for the rest of the community.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:40pm

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JohnCarter

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I think the interface in the new products is very off-putting and looks overly complex. It is not obvious for a user who just wants to get the effects done quickly and efficiently - while I am sure it is - it is not necessarily obvious at first glance. People like user friendly stuff.

For me, that's why I do not use EffectsLab, which I got for free anyways because of the old ALamDV promotion. I got it but I don't use it.

Schwar has offered a version of VisionLab HD for RECON2 and while I would love to try it, I am afraid of what looks like an apparently stiff learning curve, and instead of that, I'll use tools I am more comfortable with.

Hope it helps.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:43pm

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Waser

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I'm sort of torn between online tutuorials, and video tutuorials. I miss the alamdv2 video ones.

as for my first impressions of the products, I was sort of intimidated at first, and the 4 CSB digital progams I have ever used were the only effects programs I have ever used, but foun that after some twiddling around I sort of discovered things for myself. But some people might not want to take that extra leap or make that sort of commitment of discovery, so I think more tutorials would help.

As for why did I buy my first product, which was alamdv2, which I bought with a friend, oh so many years ago? The price was right, and it looked impressive. Luckily for me, the goings only got better. I cam for the alamdv2, but stayed for the great service.

Last edited Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 5:11pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 4:52pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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For beginners it would be good with some in-program guiding or sample projects.

Waser wrote:

I'm sort of torn between online tutuorials, and video tutuorials. I miss the alamdv2 video ones.
"Masks!"
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 5:27pm

Post 8 of 132

alpha54

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I don't really know why lots of people try the demo and then don't buy the actual program... Because when I tried the demo, I was so impressed I instantly bought the full product! smile

I voted sample projects on the poll, btw.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 5:29pm

Post 9 of 132

Harvey

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I think that the there are a few things missing from the demos that would really help new users. That would be an interactive tutorial for every effect (the four engines in EffectsLab and keying out a greenscreen and doing some color grading in CompositeLab) with before and after footage for each one. I think that the average person that downloads the demo sees the program as being very complex and is overwhelmed by that. Adding before and after footage would get show that person what the program could do and make them want to do it. And with the interactive tutorials they could make that effect for themselves and see how easy the program is. This would also make the demo interface much more user friendly and bring everything out in the open as most of it is sort of tucked away from the user making him/her have to search for it. No one wants to have to search for something in a program that they know nothing about. I think that would make the user want to buy the program so that they can make those effects.

Also I think it would be cool if a few of the movies in the cinema that showed the best use of the programs were linked to in the demos to show the person using it what other users of the program have made. I remember that the reason I bought AlamDV2 (right before EffectsLab was released) was because I saw MATT PUGH's Star Wars movies in the cinema and wanted to make my own lightsaber fights. I think that linking to the movies that exhibit the best use of the respective programs in the demos would show the person what other people who own the programs have made and make them want to make their own lightsaber fight, key out their own greenscreen, etc.

As I said before I was convinced to buy AlamDV2 (while anxiously awaiting the release of EffectsLab) because I saw MATT PUGH's Star Wars movies in the cinema and wanted to make my own lightsabers. I was convinced to buy CompositeLab (well ask for it for Christmas) because I loved EffectsLab (so I knew that CompositeLab would a great program as well which it is) and was going to be doing a lot of greenscreen work this coming summer for a movie I'm making. I hope to upgrade to EffectsLab Pro in the near future and I will look into VisionLab probably next year because I'm starting to see how nice it would be to have everything in one program.

Anyway this is a great community with knowledgeable people and there's always someone who can answer my questions. Your products are great and I want to see them spread. So thanks for taking the time to read this post, I hope I've been of some help, and good luck and keep up the great work!
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 6:07pm

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Garrison

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I can concur with a few people's comments. My two cents:

First, I got the demo, I was intimidated, and working with Final Cut Pro, the whole time line is different than what I was used to, so I almost gave up with the whole thing. BUT, what REALLY sold it for me were 3 things. One, the price. Considering there are programs like Apple's Shake (which is easily $2,000), I found VisionLab to be an INCREDIBLE deal. Two, the cinemas on the site that reflect filmmaker's creatons using your product. Three, would be the forums and (at least for me), I feel like it's a special place for aspiring people to come together and share ideas.

What would sell more programs? FOR ME, I learn a lot quicker by watching rather than reading. Although, your printed materials helped a great deal (I'm trying to think of those who want to make films, and are just getting into it...), I think simple video clips (if not a DVD) of HOW to apply the effects etc. would help sell more of your product. I know there is a guy who made the video tutorial of the camera shake, but it was to quick, and if I am not familiar with the interface to begin with, it can be a turn off.

I just recently purchased some great plug-ins for Final Cut Pro based on their video tutorials.

Here is a link (click "Watch Tutorial" under System Requirements):

http://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/fcplugins/dh_box.php

Simple things like this may sell more units. I'm not saying to get rid of the printed material (as I have printed them all out and have my own binder of your tutorials), I'm just saying that people learn in different ways. Once someone gets a better idea at how simple it is, they may be more inclined to buy.

I wouldn't think about lowering the price, because OBVIOUSLY, you guys worked hard on the program, and again, it is a good deal.

If you make a DVD video Tutorial, throw it in with people who buy the software. Charge a nominal fee for those who want to see how intuitive the interface is, and they may take the plunge and buy.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 6:18pm

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Landon

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Pretty much nothing for me, except that CompositeLab get motion tracking features. Because until then I have to use Icarus. However from the stuff on the list I voted example files because I'm sure that would help a lot of new users grasp the interface faster.

What I don't get is the people who are complaining about a complex interface. Quite on the contary, the fxhome products have very powerful yet simple UI's and I would definately recommend the fxhome team not to change it. Those who are complaining about its complexity need to check out some other programs on the market. I'm assuming those who are complaining were expecting elab to have an ALAM like interface, yet you just don't have enough power and control with that kind of interface. You just can't have an interface like that with a program as powerful as elab.

I would like to conclude this post with a thank you to fxhome. The products are great, and I look foward to working with them in the future.

-Landon
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 6:49pm

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JT9

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I think every thing is fine as it is. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 6:54pm

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Mr_E_Man

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I have to say that what I loved about Alam DV 2 didn't carryover into EffectsLab DV. I love the freedom that EffectsLab offers, but it takes a certain skill level and time commitment that Alam didn't. On the other hand, I don't have to start up Classic to run EffectsLab, and the system has many many other improvements. Basically, what I'd really like is for the simplicity of Alam DV 2 to carry over with more presets. I'm sure it took awhile for the Alam library to build up, but I could always find somethign useful. Right now, I'm not sure if I want to take the time to learn the particle engine, or just use Alam when I need it.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 8:18pm

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Exclamation

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One thing that stands out to me is the lack of any promotional videos, showing the best that the software is capable of. If you download the demo you aren't going to get the jist of things really quickly, and if there aren't any online examples of what it is capable of then you might give up as you can't tell what the final results will be like.

I do know that the Cinema does have some examples, but there aren't any really awesome videos that show exactly what this software can do at its best. And if you go into the cinema you may watch a bad example, or you watch one with effects from other software too, which may be confusing.

Perhaps, to fill in the gap of no promotional video, a montage of the best effects done with your software from films in the cinema would be a nice idea.

I also agree about the whole online tutorials idea. I think that should be quite high on the list, as you would get to see how to do some of the really neat things that you otherwise may not think of. With software like After Effects there are many tutorials online, on many different sites. If you have a collection of really good tutorials to rival with that then I think that'd help.


(Geez; I hope this post makes sense!)
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 8:30pm

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TimmyD

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I think that right now, everything is almost as good as it can be, as FXvault and such is in development.

One thing that would be nice to the whole suite is to have the option to Archive a project. Basically, this would be like the archive feature in iDVD. It would simply save the project, but also put the media right into the project file, so if you were to transfer any media attached, you wouldnt have the unlinked media thing. I probably didnt explain that very well, just think of it like the iDVD archive feature.

I have a whole list of things about the comunity itself, but im sure you'd rather not hear them...
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 8:35pm

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b4uask30male

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My 2 cents worth,

It would be nice if you had your product line up on the main webpage a bit bigger, keeping with simple terms that simply explains what the software does.
eg:
Alamdv = you can add our visual effects using our software.
I know it's simplebut looking at the questions people ask on the forum shows that they need it broken down into something simple.

also on the product line up it would be nice to find out about your other projects
Eg: I was waiting for digitgrade, not really sure what happened to it, i must have missed the posts and so in your product line up (that is always somewhere to see, not on a post that gets moved down) a person can just glance and see: digitgrade = was a colour correcting software that's been joined with ..... (whatever it is)

I'll proberly get flamed for not knowing as much as everyone here now but think about the new customers or customers that visit here every so often and not stay here everyday.

I hope this helps.

(p.s where's digigrade? confused
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 8:42pm

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Klut

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Rating: +1

Waser wrote:

I'm sort of torn between online tutuorials, and video tutuorials. I miss the alamdv2 video ones.
You mean these? http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/tutorials.html
They are still around you fool razz
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 8:43pm

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er-no

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Rating: +1

Video tutorials are the way to go.

But I think actual showcases to what the products can do. It's all good having pictures and images.. but by spreading the word you need to impress. Most people want to know 'how' to use the program and I think this might be the main problem as to why people are using the demo and then not buying.

They want to be spoon-fed at the beginning. And fxhome needs to spoonfeed them.

Definetely. without a doubt, have a tutorials section of the site - that goes next to 'SUPPORT' at the top bracket of the navigation.

Make the videos free, witty, and fast, focusing on a variety of effects in different sections.

smile
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 9:07pm

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Erfa

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I voted more online tutorials. With pictures of some very cool effects. That would bring people here. smile And I wan't to include video tutorials. That would be awesome!
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 9:11pm

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Garrison

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Klut wrote:

Waser wrote:

I'm sort of torn between online tutuorials, and video tutuorials. I miss the alamdv2 video ones.
You mean these? http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/tutorials.html
They are still around you fool razz
Another 2 cents. I never saw these videos before, but they look distracting with the person within the clip, and some of those screenshots of the program go by so fast, scrolls across the screen, then there are clips where there are 2 videos on top of one another, with one of the clips opacity turned down.

Keep the videos on the computer screen to keep it interesting. Show a clip that you are trying to add an effect on. Go through the steps on how to achieve the effect, and then what the rendered result is.

I hope I don't sound like a basher. I REALLY like the product and want you guys to do well.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 9:12pm

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Simon K Jones

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Trust me, if/when we do more video tutorials, they won't be anything like the old ones. smile
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 9:16pm

Post 22 of 132

Oeyvind

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Klut wrote:

You mean these? http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/tutorials.html
They are still around you fool razz
Wow, where did you find those?? Heh! I think I might recall having seen those around when I was completly new here. Funny to see some stuff from the old versions.. Hehe Tarn, you look very much like my uncle! biggrin lol! At least at the tuts where you've filmed yourself from above... Very funny! +1 Klut! biggrin

Oeyvind
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 10:12pm

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Pooky

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DEFINATELY Tutorials... as it is now, people have to read the manual in detail to understand how it works, and most people hate doing that. I'd go for both a video and written version of each Tutorial (so non-english people can at least use Babelfish to translate or something).
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 10:30pm

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Wizard

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When I first came across FXhome I was relatively inexperienced graphically. I had done quite a few effects, but was still rather new to the field, only having done simple effects here and there. With that, my graphics needs were fairly simple, as I was just starting out. I was only looking for quick, flashy effects, such as "light sabers", explosions, and a few other miscellaneous plug-ins I saw that were modeled after movies.

However, I quickly advanced beyond simply wanting to add pre-made effects to my footage, with only a few small changes made by myself. Although the effects generally turned out well, there were many other movies that looked like my own. As my skill level advanced, so did your products, and they all under went necessary changes.

The pre-made effects are still available, and still all the rage, but you now offer the ability to create unique effects, which I feel makes a large difference to aspiring movie makers. Along with a few others, I do not recommend making the interface any simpler. I believe this would only serve to hurt the programs professionalism and your place as serious graphics application designers. Besides, it just looks so darn cool.

I voted to have example projects included with installation, as I have suggested this on several occasions. I am not sure if this will serve to increase revenue, but it may very well help, and will better the individual experience. I would also like to suggest the interactive tips, or guidance, as well; just as you currently have when using the four point neon light engine.

The more "complex looking" interface may be some what startling to those members who are familiar with AlamDV2. However, new users that come across this site will most likely just be impressed with the modern, and polished look of the current programs, which may provide a sense of accomplishment when they get the hang of it, and create some of their own effects.

I am pleased with everything you guys have done thus far, so it can be difficult to find things I feel could be improved, but those are a couple pointers that I believe may create a better opinion among prospective buyers at first glance, with out having to sacrifice the quality of work you have put into the current programs. I have said it before, and it is worth saying again, you guys are doing a fine job.

Great work guys.
Wizard.

Last edited Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 10:32pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 10:30pm

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jrg2134

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I voted for online tutorials... i think that there is no such thing as to many tutorial whether I make 'em or not!

plus i think it would be cool in the programs if there was batch processing! That'd be cool! I'd also like sample projects they're fun!


p.s how come not all the tutorials are here

jrg2134

Last edited Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 2:17am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 11:30pm

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Joshua Davies

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Thanks so much for all the help guys, keep it up! biggrin
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 11:40pm

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Axeman

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I think a lot could be accomplished by some tweaks to the interface, so that the preset sytem was more obvious. I don't think that it is too complicated as it is, but for less experienced users, it could possibly be more user-friendly. Many users first look at the software having no idea of the work and effort that goes into good visual effects, and think that with a computer, you ought to be able to click a button and have cool effects. Since this actually is possible to some extent with the preset system, if the interface took full advantage of that, I think you could hook more customers.

Possibly a button in the main interfce that was labeled some thing quite obvious, like "Add an Effect Preset", which would take you to the different categories of effects (neon light, particles, optics, muzzle flashes), followed by the list of presets for each category. Having the thumbnail for each preset shown might be helpful as well.
Posted: Tue, 21st Mar 2006, 11:56pm

Post 28 of 132

Fireheart

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I voted video tutorials too.

Mostly because I started as an Alam user and at the time I had no idea what I was doing (masking in particular) and the video tutorials really helped.

Also because as great as the interface is with EffectsLab Pro (love it by the way), it still takes some getting used to. I have a lot of time to try to figure it out (okay, I have no life), but I still get stuck for a way to make an effect every now and then. That is why I love the preset system. Most of the time when I see some new presets I think to myself "how did they get it to do that?" So I download them and look closely at the settings and figure it out. However, most people won't take the time to do that.

One thing I wish was improved was the preview frame rendering time. I have a pretty powerful mac with 1 GB of memory and plenty of hard drive space and it still takes awhile to get to the next frame even with the preview quality set to half. Not that big a deal, but it is annoying at times when your just taking a quick look through it to make sure it is animating the way you want it to.

I do think motion tracking would be cool, but I don't mind animating a bit.

Otherwise I would say that you guys are doing a great job. I am thrilled with it and have recomended it to my friends. I would even buy VisionLab if I had the money (maybe with my tax return, we'll see). Keep up the good work!
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 12:36am

Post 29 of 132

Harvey

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For those of you who might have been confused by my first post, I love the interface as it is and I would advise you guys not to change it. I just think that you might want to dumb the program down in demos by adding interactive tutorials and such. It might even be a good idea to put an interactive tutorial in the full program for those users who don't play around with the demo before buying.

I agree with Axeman that the preset system should probably be dumbed down and be more obvious judging by all the "how do I add presets" topics there have been on the forums. I love the interface as it is but I know that you guys want to sell your products and frustrated and confused customers are not something that you guys need so changing a few things with the interface might be necessary.

Two other ideas hit me since I last posted. The first one is that I think going through the forums and finding the most frequently asked questions regarding certain functions within the programs and finding a way to make those function easier to understand. And the second one, which is more for the members here, is that I think that it might be a good idea to keep sarcastic posts out of the support forums. I have noticed that a few times someone has asked a question and someone has posted a sarcastic reply which doesn't answer the question. I think that a new user might take that as an insult and be less inclined to ask questions or use the forums or even the product that they have bought. This could lead them not to spread the word about FXhome around to their friends or even spread negative words about your products and this community. Anyway I don't expect this to happen and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or insulting any new members here. This is a great community with wonderful product support I just think that that has the potential to be a problem, not likely but it could happen.

Anyway I've written way too much so I'll leave you in peace (for the time being). smile
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 12:36am

Post 30 of 132

SGB

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I think that people would buy if the demo expired after a while. or, for example, if you were able to render things in medium resolution for 30 days, and then it was disabled. Have a demo that lasts forever gives people no insentive to buy quickly. I used the demo for a while just makeing cool effects and previewing them.

There should be a tutorial mode in both the demo and the real version. THis would show you exactly how to do easy things, but unlike a video tutorial it would allow you to do it yourself. There could be a tute mode for muzzle flashes, showing you how to place them, how they should look for whatever gun you are using etc. then one for lightsabers, particles (i guess only a couple, like smoke and fire) and optics. I think this would help a lot.

There could be a "help me!" tab somewhere. you click this and there are a list of things to do. like help me render, and it'll show you exactly how to render. or help me make a lightsaber and it shows you how to do it.

There is my input. If there was a tute mode, and/or a help me tab, i think the sales would skyrocket. people would be astounded at how easy the program is to use.

SGB

PS here is a thought about preview renders. it would be better if the picture immediatly appeared in lowres and then the quality raised to whatever you have selected. so instead of clicking on the next frame and seeing the old frame for a few seconds (in highres i guess) you would immideatly see the new frame in lowres, and then wait the few seconds while you watch the quality improve. this would help a ton.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 12:37am

Post 31 of 132

Ceramite

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Defiantly video tutorials, lynda.com has Great tutorials!! (I would use who ever doesn't have the thickest British accent to help us Americans out smile

~Dual monitor support would rule.
~Opening a project from a project icon not the program icon. (skip the splash screen)
~motion tracking in Effects Lab
~Have more presets for blood, bullet hits, explosions, saber clashes, etc built in (updated with user submitted presets)
~ More short cuts (ie. clear In and Out)
~ Use ram and processor speeds more effectively. (compared with AE)

-Demo reels on the main page would help sell (less words- more visuals)
-Video tours; Apple does a great job.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6314002/wo/Wn63jpjPwYek2mFdsSm1vN2tZLu/0.PSLID?mco=8D19F826&nplm=MA154Z%2FA
-More before and afters (the ones you have are great!)
-Are you advertising in video magazines (DV mag) or other forums (Creative Cow)? I Stumbled on your page one day after looking everywhere for gun effects. None of my video friends/coworkers have heard of your product until i told them.

I think you have a great product but not enough of the right people know about it. (ie. student filmmakers, indy filmmakers)

Your product might sell amazing as an After Effect plug in.... (like Delirium but better)
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 1:36am

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er-no

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Rating: +1

What I said in Chat, but I think Axeman has re-covered it.

And also - maybe a choice of interface?
Like a really simple childlike one (going back to old-school alamdv style) for people that want to hammer out a muzzle flash or two quickly!
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 2:33am

Post 33 of 132

jrg2134

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I don't know if this has been said yet but i'd like to be able to create subfolders for presets. You know when you click an engine or whatever you have your effects. Well like under partcile it would be nice if you could creat folders like "water" "magic" "fire" etc. and things like that!


And one other thing that i do like! Well, ALAMDV2 had like a ton of video clips when you tried to open up a new project...but sometimes there not the right filetype! But in EffectsLab if it shows the video in the open window it can open it and play it and that's what i like!


FXHome.... How do you do it? These effects are great terrific job!!!!!!!!! stun clap
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 3:20am

Post 34 of 132

TimmyD

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er-no wrote:

What I said in Chat, but I think Axeman has re-covered it.

And also - maybe a choice of interface?
Like a really simple childlike one (going back to old-school alamdv style) for people that want to hammer out a muzzle flash or two quickly!
I think that would be an excellent idea. Like if we kept the splash screen, and had the option to enter East mode or Regular mode. Easy mode would be an extremely simple UI, with most of the capabilities still possible, while regular mode would be what it is regularly.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 3:31am

Post 35 of 132

SGB

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er-no's idea is basically like mine. i think it would be best to have the childlike userfreindly appearance and ability, but also with sort of built in tutes (my help tabs i mentioned). like you click "i want to make a mask" and it walks you through it.

actually, i think that if fxhome did this the sales would go way up. people would learn the software faster, the forums wouldn't be clogged with these people asking simple questions, people would be happier with their products.

Also, i have been thinking about the idea i had about have the preview renders start off lowres and slowly getting higher res. this would allow for easy scrubbing, and make things in general a lot faster. also, if the program feels faster, even if it is not, people generally like that.

SGB
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 3:36am

Post 36 of 132

Harvey

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er-no wrote:

And also - maybe a choice of interface?
Like a really simple childlike one (going back to old-school alamdv style) for people that want to hammer out a muzzle flash or two quickly!
I think that that is a a wonderful idea. Those of us who are used to the interface now would be able to keep things the way they like it and the new users would be able to start in an extremely user friendly almost interactive interface and then when they felt comfortable with the basics they could graduate to the normal interface. Combine it with SGB's help tabs idea and I really think that it would work out pretty well especially for new users who have no idea how hard it is to create visual effects.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 3:41am

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Serpent

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I want video tutorials, then maybe some regular tutorials, and lastly: tours. Like Apple's. That is the reason I bought Production Suite, the Motion tour had me all over it.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 4:38am

Post 38 of 132

brennanmceachran

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Exclamation wrote:

One thing that stands out to me is the lack of any promotional videos, showing the best that the software is capable of. If you download the demo you aren't going to get the jist of things really quickly, and if there aren't any online examples of what it is capable of then you might give up as you can't tell what the final results will be like.
^^I agree, it takes a while to learn what the programs can really do. A promotional video, i think, would help people decide if they should buy a product or not.

I also think that the video tutorials are a great idea, which maybe could combine with the above idea of showing what the software can really offer.

maybe also being able to render to different formats and different qualities...

Other than that everything is awsome. Keep up the work!!!
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 6:18am

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Klut

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er-no wrote:

And also - maybe a choice of interface?
Like a really simple childlike one (going back to old-school alamdv style) for people that want to hammer out a muzzle flash or two quickly!
Yeah! I have designed alot of interfaces fxhome could use, but malone allready knows that razz
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 10:05am

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Simon K Jones

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We already have video clips on the product info pages, with more on the way. I agree we need to push the video elements more, though.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 4:45pm

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irishcult

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I voted for more VIDEO TUTS BUT! I will be adding me muzzle flash tutorial that i made like a month ago to my FTP so there will be ONE more to add and hopfully not MY LAST~!

IRISHCULT
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 4:52pm

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ragnar

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I think a weekly podcast would be great, ala Photoshop TV. We'd get to see the creators, and get to see tips and tricks, plus you guys could generate a little ad revenue. Watch an episode of Photoshop TV online through iTunes to see what I'm talking about.

Getting the word out about your product is the most difficult thing. In the three years I've been using FxHome not once, when I've told someone how I did my special effects and that I used Alam or FxPro, has anyone said, "FxHome? Oh yeah, I know that program. It's great." I wish it weren't true. Im finding that your audience consists of a real niche, those geeks, young and older, like myself, that not only know computers, but also know and love DV. If you do a search in the dv.com or digitalvideoediting.com, or at creativecow.com-three huge DV forum areas-you rarely, if ever, see mention of FXHome. What they need to see are projects that have 'wow' factor where a buzz is created and the forum members start asking about the program.

Ragnar
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 6:51pm

Post 43 of 132

mikeysnipaa

Force: 400 | Joined: 2nd Oct 2002 | Posts: 101

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New timeline
Video tutorials
Online tutorials
Video demos
Allow to export with a watermark on demo software

I think in your sales department (under products) show demos videos of all the software most users want to see what its truly able to do.

one thing A TON of people i know have said and even I have said is "I cant export anything in the demo..." 100% of the people I recommended the product to.. did not buy it because they couldn’t even test there video's out.. what I think you should do.. is allow X amount of exports.. and they all have watermarks on them (like a big X through it or demo) that way they get to see what they have created in the 10 min of playing with your software but at the same time.. they cant run off with your demo..

One HUGE reason I normally don’t use your software is because of the time line.. for me it almost makes no since.. I’ve used final cut pro, adobe premier all the pro along with almost every video editing program.. and they all are pretty much the same.. (as far as timeline) i think if you made the time line so that you could allow it to "zoom out" (so you could see a complete 5 min film right there) it would do wonders for both sales.. and editing..

when alamdv2 came out I really wanted your software because I saw what everyone else was doing with it.. but when I would use the demo I thought "this timeline makes no since.. and I cant even see how my video would turn out.. this is all so weird"

then when your new software came out i finally saw the professional side and i said "ok they are finally trying.. this looks worth it"

hope that helps.. I kind of stopped in middle because i have to go but that’s prob allot as is -_-

Great price
Great software
Great people

and thats the main reason i've stuck around since alamdv first came out.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 8:07pm

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Garrison

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ragnar wrote:

I think a weekly podcast would be great, ala Photoshop TV. We'd get to see the creators, and get to see tips and tricks, plus you guys could generate a little ad revenue. Watch an episode of Photoshop TV online through iTunes to see what I'm talking about.Ragnar
Podcast is a GREAT idea.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 8:41pm

Post 45 of 132

Klut

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Garrison32 wrote:

ragnar wrote:

I think a weekly podcast would be great, ala Photoshop TV. We'd get to see the creators, and get to see tips and tricks, plus you guys could generate a little ad revenue. Watch an episode of Photoshop TV online through iTunes to see what I'm talking about.Ragnar
Podcast is a GREAT idea.
I can make some next month razz
(depends if the MacBook get's released next month, and if I get it that fast razz)
Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 9:47pm

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rogolo

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I think that FXhome should have a sort of video demonstration like Animation:Master has. This made me very close to buying their program, but lack of money stopped me from doing so. (The direct link is here) It would be a quick 5-10 minute video with an introduction, a quick showoff of the particle engine, then the neon light engine, muzzle flash engine, and the optics engine. Then include info on the preset library and how you can include stock footage and do some filters. Next, you would open up CLab and show some keying features, cloning, more filters and grading, more info on the preset library. Lastly, open up Vlab and explain how its both in one and carries a commericial license and whatnot. The whole video would be showing the processes of how to make smoke or roto a lightsaber step-by-step to show the viewer the quickness and awesomeness of the program(s). At the beginning and end, showcase some clips of final cuts of video with effects. I think this would definately help get people to understand the way the program works.

Also, I think that interactive quickstart tutorials would help. Instead of switching back and forth between windows, a little dialog box would box up telling me to push a certain button, and a small animation showing me where the button is or something would help a lot...so yeah...just my two cents.

Last edited Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 10:59pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 22nd Mar 2006, 10:41pm

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the Fiddler

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Rating: +5

I'm one of those who has downloaded the demo, and not purchased the program. I've wanted to get EffectsLab for quite some time, but simply don't have the money.

Personally, I think that a set US price, and USD payment (without having to convert things) would be huge improvement. I think people here in the US would be more trusting and willing to put up the money. Call it nationalistic if you like, but people want to pay the way they always do, and not worry about the conversion. I was glad to see that you had a US price on the advertisement on the main page, but it's still not available when I actually go to purchase.

Next, I say ignore all those who are asking for a simpler interface or a different timeline or whatever. This isn't editing software, so the timeline shouldn't look like the timeline in editing software. As for simpler, well there's always ways to improve, but doing a dummied down version is just dumb. If people are serious enough to drop $100 bucks plus--they're serious enough to learn how to use the software. You get 3-step, make-your-own-movie software for free. Anything more costs around $100 and is going to have a learning curve because of flexibility. The 3-step software may be easy, but you get pre-set cookie cutter results.

As for those who have suggested sample videos as well as video tutorials and in-program tutorials. I think they're right on. I decided I wanted the program only after going through it's features carefully, and researching what and how they worked. Show me some awesome before and after clips, and I'll be hooked a lot better. It's the principle they use in screenwritting as well as most creative writing: show, down't tell. Heck give out some kind of reward to people, who've made great videos using your products, to send you quality before and after stuff (they could do tutorials as well). In short, I think rogolo is right on the money.

Improve the demo for sure. Rendering w/watermark is a MUST, & I think a 30 day limit is fair as well. Also, more presets and examples to play around with--remember the demo is supposed to show what your software CAN do, not what it can't.

Also, advertise like crazy. I have to wonder if those who come, download, then don't buy just aren't the right people. Your software definitely fills a niche that's otherwise vacant, you've just got to show it off to the right people. If you want to keep with the grass-roots thing, give out a free copy to anyone who can get their school or business to purchase multiple licences.

As other's have said, a bunch of little tweaks would be great for serious users: Dual monitor support (preview on a separate monitor from the timeline, mobile presets), associate files with the program, include more presets in the download (demo & purchased), speed up the rendering of the program (if possible), etc.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 12:38am

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Evman

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Video tutorials are a definate must. I know I get hyped up about something once i see it in motion. I respond much better to video tutorials, and pick it up a lot quicker than text. Make the download speed as quick as possible as well. The key to the video tutorials would be speed. People loose interest very quickly. You need to give them as little waiting time as possible, and make the videos themselves simple and rapid.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 5:42am

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ben3308

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"Masks!"
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 6:03am

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Redhawksrymmer

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One picture says more than a thousand words, that's why tutorials in motion are better.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 1:35pm

Post 51 of 132

padone40

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Video Tutorials and sample project files are a great way to learn a new program, I always like to jump straight into the program and read the manual later. Once I get stuck, I then read the manual and it then becomes more relevant and easier to understand.

I downloaded the old Alamdv2 and Chromy demos and bought the EFLAB DV and Chromy, so the demos worked for me.

The only frustrating thing with some of the effects is the time to preview render - some programs like particle illusion seem to be able to render instantaneously - maybe some people are expecting instant gratification ??? (or maybe my computer is getting old)

wink
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 5:00pm

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SyroVision

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Can we do something about the smell...


seriously... Tarn.... im looking at you man.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 5:16pm

Post 53 of 132

Xcession

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FLV support.

Its great that you already accept cinema submissions in a wide range of formats, but there are bound to be users who aren't clued up enough, or don't have the right software, to produce a final movie in a format that everyone else can watch. I'm thinking wmv, in particular.

FLVs could be played embedded in the fxhome webpage (obviously) which would mean the voting, the comments, and all the other gubbins on that page would be far more accessible to viewers of the movie.

You're advocating Right-Click-Saving, but since this usually means playing the movies in an external application I, for one, rarely go back to the movie page to comment or rate. I either lose interest, get distracted or just can't be bothered. By keeping the user in the site while they view the movies, I think you'd be significantly improving community participation. Maybe even a few purchase conversions too.

Aside from the sticky user aspects though, the most obvious benefit to your users is platform independance.

Do the tutorials in FLV too. I'd admit that sometimes its nice to have actual movie files which you can download and save to desktop, but its simply not that convenient in many circumstances. Having a tutorial movie on a webpage surrounded by links, presets, applications and stock footage used in the tutorial itself, would be very, very handy.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 7:13pm

Post 54 of 132

mikeysnipaa

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A few reasons I don’t agree with FLV is, one when someone goes back to the video just to post comments or read something.. they don’t need or want (normally) for the video to be playing or downloading after they have already seen it.. You will only get serious downloader’s and wont be wasting bandwidth (since everyone is hosting there own videos) and some can’t afford "real" or fast hosting

two.. for dial up users.. embedded video is almost out of the picture..

not saying you couldn’t have both.. but normally FLV and such (any embedded video) is really annoying.. just my opinion, no offence by it
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 8:27pm

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Xcession

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Fair points, but the FLV player I use (and would therefore recommend to FXHome) neither plays, nor buffers unless you ask it to.

Your point about dialup users is valid, but only about as valid as, say, the argument for supporting 800x600 resolutions. Such situations/users exist, so you should certainly support them, but it doesn't mean you should fully support them. And like you say, i'd imagine there would be several links on the page to various versions anyway.

Broadband is on the 'up' as it is, with a massive 75-odd% usage (in England, at least). I think in the world of video editing, where filesizes are collosal and fast transfer is therefore important, it can be safely assumed that a sufficient number of FXHomers will have a wide enough pipe for FLV to be a success.

(In fact, if you're on a 56k i'd suspect you wouldn't want to be downloading ANY movies from FXHome anyway, except for the tiny ones.)
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 9:49pm

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jerryfastcash

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If you have an Adobe product, there are countless places to go to get video tutorials. One day, I hope that will be the case for your brand, I am rooting for you guys.

In the meantime, the staff and all the various resident experts of all levels should post their tutorials.

That, in my opinion will spike your sales. I have the product and do not use it. I really dont know what it is but I feel more comfortable with PP and AE. Maybe with some tuts that will change.

Good luck guys, you deserve much success.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Mar 2006, 11:08pm

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jrg2134

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I'll have to agree with some and disagree with others. I say that everything with the program right now should be left the same...iof there is a new interface, timeline, etc. there should be a version for those who like it better the way it is now or else don't change it! Perhaps add things but don't change it! cool
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 1:30am

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Ceramite

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I was thinking about this more.

To me, it would make more sense if there was a larger gap between the regular version and the pro version (i know this is problem because you have already sold many regular versions). Leave the pro version the way it is and make the non-pro simplified (offer a 10 dollar upgrade to pro for current users or a small refund if they don't upgrade).

I forgot the payment people you use SUCKS! My product is registered under my girl friend's name (because she has a credit card paypal account and i have a bank paypal account). Please get an American account!!!!!!!!!! I emailed you fellas several times about that when i was trying to give you money. I forgot about my anger, i wanted to give you money SO bad but that system kept denying my information for no reason........ *RRRRRRRRR*

Ahhhhhh I still like you guys smile (and the program:)
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 5:07am

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the Fiddler

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Preach man preach.

Like he said, you guys need a different payment system. If you want US customers, setup a US payment system. I know it may cost more, so charge us an extra $5 or something, but do it US for those in the US.
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 8:41am

Post 60 of 132

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

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I think the various Ultimate FAQs need to be more prominent. A hell of a lot of work has gone into them, and theres a massive amount of information in them, yet its quite clear that noobs often miss them, or deliberately don't read them because of their sheer size.

Its also confusing that some absolutely vitally essential isupport nformation is being hidden away in the "Community" section and not in "Support" (where the FAQs are mentioned, but not even linked!).

Create a "Getting started with moviemaking on the internet" page. Or similar.

It will be generated by the ultimate faq forums posts, but it will resemble a more standard FXh page. It will still contain the same data therefore, but will be layed out nicely, by topic, with nice graphics (not some mind bogglingly long linear list).

It would basically cover all the things people duplicate-post about on the forum, in a more easily digestible format.

- where to buy greenscreen cloth
- where to host your movies
- how to compress your movies
- air soft guns/laws
etc

The Ultimate FAQs cover much more than this, of course, but a lot of it isn't directly related to the FXh products. They cover Flash, Web design, AE, Maya etc. These would be stored elsewhere, further reducing the amount a newbie needs to read.

This isn't just a solution to duplicate posting, obviously - this is a general thought about helping out the beginners.
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 6:12pm

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Garrison

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thefiddler wrote:

Preach man preach.

Like he said, you guys need a different payment system. If you want US customers, setup a US payment system. I know it may cost more, so charge us an extra $5 or something, but do it US for those in the US.
What problems have you had? I live all the way here in Maui, Hawaii and was able to purchase it with my credit card with no problem. Got my download within the hour.

Just wondering. razz
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 6:27pm

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Jetwise

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1. I haven't played with the new demo because I already own Effectslab, but the watermark on the old version was overly obnoxious. Just a little smaller so people can see more of their own work.

2. This is admittedly silly, but I almost did not buy the program because it wasn't in USD. Say what you may, I believe it qualifies as a legitimate reason for some. People in the US are used to shopping online in US dollars. Call it a comfort zone. There may be some subconscious feeling that buying a product way over in England may affect customer support or something.

3. When I first opened Effectslab and tried to create smoke I got a bunch of little yellow pluses. I believe a side window in a drop-down under Help with a list called Start-up Tutorials would be great. There would be a list of them: Creating Smoke, Creating Lightswords, etc. When you click on one of those, a window stays open on the right side of the screen with step-by-step instructions and pictures while the user follows them and builds their very first campfire. Instant gratification. I felt great when I completed my first lightsabre demo, even though I knew countless others already knew how to do it...in my little circle of friends and family, I'm the only one, and it impresses..

4. Click and drag, and basically all things as similar to Windows operation as possible. This is a direction you already have moved. The more Windows like the better. I think it is exactly why Sony Vegas is so successful and Pinnacle Liquid isn't. Familiar interface. Again, comfort zone.

Love you guys, your products, and hope many, many sales come your way. Yes...I'll be getting Compositelab here pretty soon.
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 8:24pm

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Harvey

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I'm not sure if it can be done or not but having FXhome come up sooner on search engines when special effects, visual effects, etc. are searched. I looked through ten pages of search for special effects on Yahoo and couldn't find FXhome and on Google FXhome didn't come up until the fifth page. This would undoubtedly help bring people here because everyone uses a search engine when looking for something but you should probably integrate some of the changes that have already been mentioned before doing this.

Also I think that the preset library should be easier to find (not hidden in the Products tab). I know that it took awhile for me to find it at first and I think making it easier to find would greatly help new users.
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 9:57pm

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TimmyD

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Jetwise wrote:

4. Click and drag, and basically all things as similar to Windows operation as possible. This is a direction you already have moved. The more Windows like the better. I think it is exactly why Sony Vegas is so successful and Pinnacle Liquid isn't. Familiar interface. Again, comfort zone.
What are you saying about Windows? Click and drag? I dont seem to be understanding this part.
Posted: Fri, 24th Mar 2006, 11:07pm

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lwmedia

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It would be GREAT if FXhome could set up a movie hoasting service. (Users could pay for hoasting that is to be used in the cinema)

I am having alot of trouble finding a free hoaster that I know I can trust. confused
(Yes, this does mean that I trust you guys biggrin , and I would pay to hoast through you)
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 12:10am

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EelcoG

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A few things have been said already:
The low res quick preview would help
Sample movies which you download with the tutorial

Those are minor niggles, I have one major problem with the software: Workflow!

The way you set up filters, set up masks, etc, is simply counter intuitive. I keep on hunting for the basic things. I keep on searching the reference manual far more often then I should.
Don't get me wrong, the options are powerfull, the programs are good (there is a reason I bought them), but the interface is very bad.
It would definitely explain why you have a large group of dedicated followers and at the same time a very large group of people who try and then don't buy. Once you know the interface, you can use it and can do all the marvelous things the software allows. But first you have to reach that point. And I have a very strong feeling that you don't actually have to change a lot. It is not like I am asking for some kind of teletubby interface. Just, get things in a more logical order in the interface. Group things in the interface. Make things only visible in the interface if the prerequisites are there.
My profession is validation specialist for a company which makes medical software. I have experience with these things. We make software for people who use computer programs as a tool. Very intelligent people, but people who just want to use the software. They want to spend their energy on what the are diagnosing, not on how the software works. The same holds true for many people who like to do special effects. To much time has to be invested in the program, instead of the creative process.
I can probably make a list of things which would improve matters a lot (in my opinion of course). If you think this deserves further discussion, let me know and I'll draw up a list.
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 3:54am

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rogolo

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Logan White wrote:

I am having alot of trouble finding a free hoaster that I know I can trust. confused
Check out the UFAQ 4.
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 2:51pm

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TimmyD

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rogolo wrote:

Logan White wrote:

I am having alot of trouble finding a free hoaster that I know I can trust. confused
Check out the UFAQ 4.
Check out the UFAQ 4... here.

Or here's my favorites:
midPhase- UNMETERED BANDWIDTH!
or
BlueHost
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 3:23pm

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Xcession

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midPhase may claim to be unmetered, but they'll punish you if you have a particularly high b/w site - i guarantee it.
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 4:39pm

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JDC

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Quote - "It would be GREAT if FXhome could set up a movie hoasting service. (Users could pay for hoasting that is to be used in the cinema)" -

Funny you should say that, because very soon (when our website is up) we will be having the same thing. You pay $1 a month to have up to 3 movies hosted. (thats our plan anyway)

Il make a thread when its up, which should be within the month.

Josh.
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 5:08pm

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ben3308

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TimmyD wrote:


Or here's my favorites:
midPhase- UNMETERED BANDWIDTH!
or
BlueHost
This may sound stupid, but are those hosts free? Because I can't find out how to sign up for a free account on them.
Posted: Sat, 25th Mar 2006, 5:11pm

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Xcession

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keep this thread on track please. No tangential questioning.
Posted: Sun, 26th Mar 2006, 7:10pm

Post 73 of 132

mikeysnipaa

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Xcession wrote:

midPhase may claim to be unmetered, but they'll punish you if you have a particularly high b/w site - i guarantee it.
yep

also seems kinda weird they offer free domain name for life lol

also sorry for being off track me didnt realize till after

Last edited Sun, 26th Mar 2006, 9:00pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 26th Mar 2006, 7:42pm

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Serpent

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I would like to be able to group objects and change things in both more easily, such as animation properties etc.

It would also be nice to be able to import audio tracks. Example: I have a song where there is a distant shot of to people in a duel and the song has drum beats. I want to see a small saber clash in the distance at every beat. Just importing it and seeing the little zig zag lines where the audio peaks would be helpful. People could also add sounds from the upcoming FX library (which will hopefully icnlude sounds and music) and the already existing mini sound library.
Posted: Sun, 26th Mar 2006, 9:06pm

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mikeysnipaa

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Serpent wrote:

I want to see a small saber clash in the distance at every beat. Just importing it and seeing the little zig zag lines where the audio peaks
i agree it would be awesome to be able to see if not hear audio just for the ability to sync effects with audio (just would be a nice extra) if you made it so it could play the audio from the clip.. make sure you have a mute feature haha (would be really annoying if you weren’t trying to sync with audio)

(i know this software is and effects program and not really for audio..) but it can still be helpful
Posted: Mon, 27th Mar 2006, 4:48am

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Ceramite

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1st time i've seen an FX Ad!!! (looking for guacamole gun plans) Looks great guys!!!!! biggrin

*edit darn grammar and me* mad smile
Posted: Mon, 27th Mar 2006, 10:10am

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Simon K Jones

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EelcoG wrote:

I can probably make a list of things which would improve matters a lot (in my opinion of course). If you think this deserves further discussion, let me know and I'll draw up a list.
We'd definitely be interested to hear your thoughts. Any ideas on how to improve the interface are always welcome.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 2:40am

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rickblackmon

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I originally bought Alam after watching the demo. I thought it was relatively easy to use and used it albeit infrequently. I anxiously awaited the promised upgrade throughout the long development period. I anticipated something like Alam but with more effects. I am not a moviemaker but I dazzled my grandkids with Yoda and with my grandson kickboxing him and then a fire explosion. I would have no idea how to go about creating a fire with ELab Pro which I upgraded to when it first came out. I have not used it. I am intimidated by it. A video tutorial might be the answer but probably not for me.

I don't think the interface is intuitive enough for me. I don't intend to offend anyone but you asked and that is my two cents woth.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 3:53am

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SGB

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i agree. The interface was so complex it took me a full year to buy the program. It was only when i forced myself to use the demo that i realized how great the program was.

A quickstart project is a great idea. supply some footage and a project that uses it.

SGB
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 9:03am

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Xcession

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Just want to address the Interface issues raised. I can't speak for the FXHome team, but as a Beta tester i was exposed to the care and attention that went into the new interface. It was considered at length and some compromises were made, but at the benefit of some great features (which are, admitedly, perhaps a bit hidden without tutorials).

UI design is a constant trade-off between functionality and usability. In the extremely rare situations where an application achieves both, the price invariably reflects it. I think we can all agree that the price of FXHome products is still a huge plus.

To draw a comparison - you wouldn't spend £10,000 on 3DS MAX then complain that its too hard to make a full scene of starwars, since you buy 3DS fully in the knowledge that it has a near vertical learning curve and requires years of experience to achieve the kind of things you aspire to. If you don't, you're frankly an idiot.

EffectsLab is no 3DS, obviously, but i think few people have grasped the concept that EL isn't really an upgrade to ADV2 (although it was marketted as such) - its a whole new product for a whole new market.

Tutorials are the next big thing to be added to the site, they are undeniably lacking at the moment. They should help everyone come to grips with EL better, like they helped ADV in the past.

Given the company strategy information i'm parley to, as a beta user, i can safely say that while your issues with the interfaces are understood and reasonable, its unlikely the UI will be radically simplified a great deal, if at all, in the near future.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 1:46pm

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Obi Wan Kenobi

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Rating: +1



eek

Now that, you could fix…

Anyway, all the more complicated programs I learned, I learned through video tutorials. Now, maybe these products aren't that complicated,
but they may be for quite some people. So, video tutorials for teh WIN!
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 4:33pm

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SGB

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[quote="Obi Wan Kenobi"]
quote]
In case you didn't realize, thats a sig...

A few people have noticed that, but they never notice that it says Feb 30.

SGB
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 6:25pm

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er-no

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There should be a movie review section.

There should also be a seperate gaming chat forum.

Creating a better community ftw!
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 9:18pm

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TimmyD

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er-no wrote:

Creating a better community ftw!
The only sentence I wholly agree with in this entire thread.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 9:35pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Personally I vote for creating a better atmosphere amongst the community members by killing those who are either weak, cause trouble or exhibit signs of being close-minded.

Also, those who don't read the manuals should be tortured first, then killed.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 9:39pm

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EelcoG

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Xcession wrote:

UI design is a constant trade-off between functionality and usability. In the extremely rare situations where an application achieves both, the price invariably reflects it. I think we can all agree that the price of FXHome products is still a huge plus.
The thing is: it isn't. Of course, the price is important, but what started this whole thread is that the product isn't selling as good as it should, so price alone obviously doesn't cut it. What most software engineers forget is that the interface is actually the most important bit of the software (from a commercial point of view). It is the bit of the software which interfaces with the user. No matter how brilliant the software, if I can't use it, I'm not going to buy it.
This system actually works more against you with free trial versions because the relatively short time that people spend comparing software will actually be mostly spend evaluating the interface. Remember that most of your customers are simple users. The real power users are (or actually, should be) only a very small part of your total user base if you want to generate volume, and generating volume is what it is all about when you talk about low priced products.

Regards, Eelco

ps: I am working on some UI propositions but it will take some time.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 9:52pm

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rickblackmon

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Xcession said: "EffectsLab is no 3DS, obviously, but i think few people have grasped the concept that EL isn't really an upgrade to ADV2 (although it was marketted as such) - its a whole new product for a whole new market.

Tutorials are the next big thing to be added to the site, they are undeniably lacking at the moment. They should help everyone come to grips with EL better, like they helped ADV in the past. "

While I was waiting for the upgrade, I anticipated a follow-on and improvement to ADV2. I agree, Elab Pro is a whole new product. I further agree that price is not an issue. It is just a lot more complex than what I was expecting. I have both Premiere and Premiere Elements. I abandoned Premiere because of the steep learning curve. If I were a teenager, it would be a challenge I would attack. Alas, I am not...72 week after next. So much software, so little time. But, that being said, bring on the tuts.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 11:04pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +1

Abandoned Premiere because of the steep learning curve?

I mean no offence, but Premiere was one of the few programs I just picked up and worked out how to use. I'd advise giving it another look wink

Going from AlamDV > EffectsLab has obviously been a large shift. The companies product has gone from being fodder for children who want to incorporate special effects without them being either special or demanding of any effort/learning to being a rather capable tool for creating a plethora of different effects.

Whilst I understand that generally, the interface is now more complex - the results gained from this are of such a higher standard than any previous fxhome software that I can only view the change to be more than acceptable, infact I wholeheartedly welcome it.

Though, this doesn't mean I don't think the lower-end of amateur film-makers shouldn't also be catered for and having been around here for some time I know they haven't been forgotton. Two things which have been publicly announced as being 'in the works' should make the programs much more easy to pick up and use minus any thought processes. There are;

1 - The video tutorials
2 - The stock footage library.

I think the preset system also caters for users incapable of creating their own effects. I don't think the price is any issue, as it's still the cheapest program of this standard. I don't really think the interface is either, though having used it since early betas then I've in some way explored it to the extent that I know it well.

Coincidentally, so did Tarn. And he wrote a book about it which a read of can impart all of the knowledge and know-hows of the interface. He named it "The Manual".

I've voted for video tutorials, mainly because they'll provide in your face examples of how powerful the programs here are.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Tue, 28th Mar 2006, 11:45pm

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

rickblackmon - happy birthday for in a couple of weeks! You must have the honour of being our most senior user!

I understand all too well your problem with simply not having enough time. Back when I was a student I seemed to have limitless time to delve into complex interfaces - hence how I even learnt how to use Blender, infamous for having an absurdly complex 3D interface. Nowadays, I don't seem to be able to apply myself in the same way, and everything seems oddly more difficult - and I'm only 25!

I really hope my forthcoming video tutorials will help guide people around the new products in a quick, informative and entertaining manner. They should be excellent alternatives for people that don't have the time to go through the manual or experiment for hours.
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 2:29am

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Ceramite

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I keep reading what people are saying. Make the regular version simple as pie and leave the Pro version the way it is. I'm 28 working in the industry; i want every option possible. I am willing to spend over a 100/150 bucks for an effect.

kiddo: "Mom can i have 112 bucks to make fake gun flashes???"
mom: "no"

If the program was 112 and you could do simple editing, add effects, compress for the web it would sell like hot cakes!!! mmmmm hot cakes biggrin Your target doesn't have the money, thats why people are not Buying.

If I was 13 with no money to toss around i might be able to do some dishes to earn 50 bucks for a simple version (sabers, muzzle flashes, small explosions- thats it).

edit-
Take a poll of how old your users are and how they got the money to buy your product.

edit again-
Current movies- I could be wrong but no one looks over 18.
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 3:14am

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THX 1138

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Rating: +1

Video Toutorials, and Online Toutorials (for the hearing impared) should be online.

Everyone should have equal opportunaty with their visual sofware
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 5:53am

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mikeysnipaa

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Ceramite wrote:

Current movies- I could be wrong but no one looks over 18.

HEY FOR YOUR INFORMATION IM 19!!!

oh wait.. never mind... yeah your right.. lol wink saw good haha
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 7:45am

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NickF

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THX 1138 wrote:

Video Toutorials, and Online Toutorials (for the hearing impared) should be online.

Everyone should have equal opportunaty with their visual sofware
or have subtitles biggrin
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 3:29pm

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rickblackmon

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Hybrid Halo said: Abandoned Premiere because of the steep learning curve?

I mean no offence, but Premiere was one of the few programs I just picked up and worked out how to use. I'd advise giving it another look

Tarn got the message I was trying to get across. Part of the point also was that Premiere Elements will do everything I need, so why spend the time with Premiere.

Someone else made the point about target audience (user group) age. I think that was an excellent point.

As long as you are mentioning other products, I use Serious Magic's Visual Communicator, Ultra2, Vlogit, and DV Rack. All I was using ADV2 and am going to use Elab Pro for was to add effects to movies of my grandkids. Right now, I am approaching my 40th wedding anniversary April 16, the day before my 72nd birthday. I am preparing a tribute to my long suffering wife for our anniversary.

I won't be doing Start Wars shots and such. Just having fun. I can see all of the excitement the young kids have with this product but for me, a light saber is one that doesn't weigh very much. lol
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 4:44pm

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pixelboy

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Ceramite wrote:

Your target doesn't have the money, thats why people are not Buying.

If I was 13 with no money to toss around i might be able to do some dishes to earn 50 bucks for a simple version (sabers, muzzle flashes, small explosions- thats it).
I agree with this much of Ceramite's post. I didn't quite have the cash for the pro versions of each app, although I am eighteen years old, rather than thirteen. However, if you simplified the DV versions as greatly as he suggested, users in my situation, who are serious about the software and not so easily frightened by the UI, (which i found to be simple enough,) and yet fairly low on money, would be stuck with a simplified app designed for thirteen-year-olds.
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 6:10pm

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Harvey

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Instead of simplifying EffectsLab DV why not make a different, extremely simplified version and call it EffectsLab Basic or something like that. It could have just simplified neon light and muzzle flash engines and an extremely simplified optics engine that would have built in presets for lightsword clashes and lensflares and maybe add a few filters. Give it the point and click simplicity that AlamDV 2 had and charge about $50-$60 for it. It could be intended for the teenager who doesn't have very much money and wants to make some simple effects or for the home video user who just wants to put a lightsword in his kid's or grandkid's hand. It seems to me that you guys are advertising EffectsLab DV to be that and it really isn't. A basic version would appeal to the above usergroup and if it were simple enough I think they would buy it and stop complaining about how EffectsLab is too hard because it's not like AlamDV. I would not advise doing this for CompositeLab though. If someone wants to do greenscreening and color grading then they obviously have the knowledge and the attention span to learn how to use it.

Also I think it would be cool to add an online tour of your programs. Last night I was looking at the Vue 5 Easel site and the online tour almost sold the program for me. In fact I would probably have bought it if I already had any previous experience with a 3D program and if I had the money to spend on it. Make the tour as appealing to the "tourist" as possible by adding lots of pictures, some video clips, and exciting facts and knowledge about the programs. Make the "tourist" want to do the things shown in the pictures and video clips and just make the tour visually appealing. I think that would greatly help sales.
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 7:19pm

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Garrison

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Is there some mainstream commercial or even a low budget independant film that used your effects program?

Not downloadable flicks like here on the site, but one that charges you to buy their DVD kind of project.

That kind of weight can go a long way.
Posted: Wed, 29th Mar 2006, 9:43pm

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TimmyD

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I am 13, and I know EffectsLab, Photoshop, iMovie, and some of Final Cut Pro, not to mention some basic work with Xcode. I agree with people that having a much simplified version for the kids who want to make gun flashes, because a lot of people arent filmmakers or even know a lot about anything, they're just kids who know how to use a camera, and want to add some cool gun effects. I think the simplified version, like Ceramite said, would sell like Hot Cakes.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 7:38am

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JDC

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TimmyD wrote:

I think the simplified version, like Ceramite said, would sell like Hot Cakes.
Hmmm... i have to agree with you there. Im at college and i know alot of people who would be interested in that. I know how to use the pro apps, but, like you said, people with little or no experience could really benifit from this. Also if they start playing with a very basic program for a few months they might love it so much and want to upgrade to DV or even PRO. Good ideas guys!
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 12:04pm

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rickblackmon

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How are you getting the word about the products to the public? I have seen no ads, nothing in PC magazine. I Googled it and found it about 5 down the list but I searched on Effects Lab Pro. Using effects software as a search argument, it didn't show up in the first 4 pages.

As a retired business person, I don't think professional users will take a downloaded product seriously. They need to see something on the shelf. I bought my first Serious Magic software after seeing a review of it by a local Houston technology writer in the newspaper.

I realize that as a relatively new startup, advertising expenses can be daunting but if people don't know about it they're not going to buy. Rather simplistic but factual I think.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 1:27pm

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Klut

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TimmyD must have had a wierd childhood.

Seriously, I don't think kids would buy something to add gunshots etc.
When I was a kid, I played outside. I did make 2 movies or so, but I just put in some sound effects, no visual effects.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 3:55pm

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Axeman

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rickblackmon wrote:

How are you getting the word about the products to the public? I have seen no ads, nothing in PC magazine. I Googled it and found it about 5 down the list but I searched on Effects Lab Pro. Using effects software as a search argument, it didn't show up in the first 4 pages.
They haven't started the big advertising push yet. The process of making the contacts, finishing a design for the boxes, and so forth has already begun though. Eventually you will see reviews in mags and adverts all over, and boxes in the stores.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 6:20pm

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mikeysnipaa

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well i know that over here (USA) tons of kids do make movies now, its getting bigger and bigger, when i started only thing for low budget movies was a cheap analog input.. max input was 320x240 but now i see tons of kids trying to make there own films and such (at young ages) and main reason i didn’t get alamdv was because i had no money biggrin, BUT the real problem is them knowing about your software i don’t even remember how I found out about you guys

I’ve recommended about 6 people to your software.. and the demo is always what turned them off.

another good idea might be to have a reference points system or something.. if a current gold member (someone who has bought software previously) refers your product and they buy it.. you get "points" until you can upgrade your software or something.. (5 users = 100 points) i think allot more people would be out to "spread the word"
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 6:46pm

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Xcession

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Rating: +1

The trouble with making a radically simplier version of EL, is that making effects realistic and making the interface to add them basic are two tasks which compete with eachother. I'll demonstrate:-

There are hundreds of factors to be taken into consideration when adding effects to a movie - lighting, size, angle, opacity, environment, distance, visual noise, blur, masking etc etc.

To write a piece of software capable of dragging and dropping an effect onto a movie and have it automagically fit perfectly without adjustment is ... well ... simply impossible.

Consequently, you need control of that object, to make the necessary adjustments so that it blends with your project.

The control system must therefore facilitate each of the factors listed above. This implicitly creates a minimum level of complexity.

Do you see where i'm going with this?....

I can hear you saying "but what if the kids don't care about whether it looks good?" which is a fair point. The kids may not care, but FXHome will.

FXHome needs all the exposure it can get but it will not enjoy the exposure of having abysmal quality kid's movies flying about under an FXH product's name.

Its said that any publicity is good publicity, which is true to an extent. But for a company trying to rival Adobe to find itself associated with patheticly bad results, is the kind of PR quagmire that takes years to escape from. Alamdv did it to FXH once before and they aren't keen to repeat that experience!

At present the learning curve is suitably shallow to attract a good (small) demographic of intelligent users who are keen to learn, but is also sufficiently steep to deter hoards of children with no clue, diluting the pool of decent examples of what FXH products can do.

Obviously i'm not speaking for FXH here, but theres a reason why the poll doesn't contain an option for "making the products simpler".

Last edited Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 7:35pm; edited 4 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 7:16pm

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Garrison

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cheezyfilms wrote:

another good idea might be to have a reference points system or something.. if a current gold member (someone who has bought software previously) refers your product and they buy it.. you get "points" until you can upgrade your software or something.. (5 users = 100 points) i think allot more people would be out to "spread the word"
Great idea.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 7:30pm

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pixelboy

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I fully agree with Xcession. I think if Fxhome wants to improve sales, the last thing they should do is to reduce the quality of their software, particularly if they intend to compete with Adobe.
Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2006, 8:12pm

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TimmyD

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Klut wrote:

TimmyD must have had a wierd childhood.
10 Year Old Birthday Present: Belkin USB VideoBus II. 'Nuff said.
Posted: Fri, 31st Mar 2006, 12:07pm

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AndrewtheActorMan

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One thing that I noticed when getting EffectsLab was how the interface is colored.

I realize that you are trying to complimate your website and promo material with the actual software, but strictly looking at the software, it gives a sortof "beginner" look to it - despite the fact that it really isnt.

By using less saturated colors, perhaps that could help. Make the buttons, actual buttons too because manytimes I would have issues with seeing the buttons at first glance.

Take a look at Premiere and how it's layed out and looks like. Don't copy it, because it's a totally different program, but try and find what people like so much in the software you're trying to compete with - then work from there.
Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2006, 8:57am

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mikeysnipaa

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TimmyD wrote:


10 Year Old Birthday Present: Belkin USB VideoBus II. 'Nuff said.
lol i got like same thing when i was around ten.. only thing is that was like 7 years ago for me.. lol
Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2006, 4:28pm

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Brettsta

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This might sound a little odd, but I think that there is a lot of truth in this. I feel that people will be more comfortable by seeing prices that are more "even" and less random looking. For example, I think that someone would feel more comfortable looking at a price tag of $149.99 compared to $154.78, and not only because its lower. I know you are European based, so thats where those prices come in, however, its also true that you have a huge market in the US.

Just my input...
Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2006, 6:09pm

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Evman

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Brettsta wrote:

This might sound a little odd, but I think that there is a lot of truth in this. I feel that people will be more comfortable by seeing prices that are more "even" and less random looking. For example, I think that someone would feel more comfortable looking at a price tag of $149.99 compared to $154.78, and not only because its lower. I know you are European based, so thats where those prices come in, however, its also true that you have a huge market in the US.

Just my input...
Agreed.
Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2006, 8:58pm

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NickF

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Brettsta wrote:

This might sound a little odd, but I think that there is a lot of truth in this. I feel that people will be more comfortable by seeing prices that are more "even" and less random looking. For example, I think that someone would feel more comfortable looking at a price tag of $149.99 compared to $154.78, and not only because its lower. I know you are European based, so thats where those prices come in, however, its also true that you have a huge market in the US.

Just my input...
But then the prices will still look random to people not in the U.S.

EDIT: Another option is for FXhome to have different prices for each currency but that could be almost deemed "country-ist" because some people get it for less than others
Posted: Sun, 2nd Apr 2006, 8:15am

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the Fiddler

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Brettsta wrote:

This might sound a little odd, but I think that there is a lot of truth in this. I feel that people will be more comfortable by seeing prices that are more "even" and less random looking. For example, I think that someone would feel more comfortable looking at a price tag of $149.99 compared to $154.78, and not only because its lower. I know you are European based, so thats where those prices come in, however, its also true that you have a huge market in the US.

Just my input...
Amen.

JMSG wrote:

But then the prices will still look random to people not in the U.S.

EDIT: Another option is for FXhome to have different prices for each currency but that could be almost deemed "country-ist" because some people get it for less than others
As long as they're within a couple bucks, nobody's going to care. I even said to charge us US people a little more if need be. Just let us pay American. Heck make it 159.99. I don't think the few dolars difference will loose your US customers.
Posted: Sun, 2nd Apr 2006, 5:28pm

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rickblackmon

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Frankly, I don't think playing around a few$ or pennies would make any difference. On eBay, you see UK and US prices on many articles.

I think the answer is advertising as I said previously and was answered that it is in the works. I also think you must select the market you want to capture and point your ads at that market. Look at Premiere and Vegas. They are aimed at the professional market and you see many of the younger set here that are familiar with and comfortable using. If I see something aimed at the teen market, then I am not going to be interested. I would probably not even look at the ad.

Before retirement, I was a business professional. I wanted and used professional tools. No way could I have asked our accounting department for approval (and gotten it) that was not aimed at the professional market. A $300 price is no deterrent to a business that needs it bout it would be to an amateur. Pick your market.

Send your product gratis to some of the technology editors in newspapers and magazines. They have a great deal of influence in the community of software purchasers.

That is my opinion FWIW.
Posted: Sun, 2nd Apr 2006, 9:19pm

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Serpent

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I'm not going to read everything, but here's another BIG issue:

I think a better undo/redo system needs to be added. You can only undo once in the version I have.
Posted: Sun, 2nd Apr 2006, 9:36pm

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SGB

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Serpent wrote:

I'm not going to read everything, but here's another BIG issue:

I think a better undo/redo system needs to be added. You can only undo once in the version I have.
Thank you. absolutely, the under/redo system sucks. It would be good to have a list of all the things you did, and be able to undo each one individually.

Also, it would be cool if you could keyframe the speed of a clip. so like have the opening at 100% and then the end at 300% and then have it speed up in the middle etc.

SGB
Posted: Sun, 2nd Apr 2006, 9:53pm

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Axeman

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SGB wrote:

Also, it would be cool if you could keyframe the speed of a clip. so like have the opening at 100% and then the end at 300% and then have it speed up in the middle etc.
Time remapping is a very complicated procedure, and probably not something you will see anytime in the near future from these programs.

Also, I would like to point out that there have been many suggestions for features you would like to see, such as this, presented in this thread, and really they are not relevant to the topic at hand. Not saying they aren't good ideas, but the place for them is probably in the FXhome Product Discussion forum.

Note the poll at the top of this thread. I'm sure the FXhome crew will be reading and re-reading all these posts, but if we could stay more focused on the topic at hand (how to improve the products, so sales will improve as well) it will make their job much easier. So feel free to post ideas for new or improved features, but please put them in the appropriate place. And feel free to discuss your view of the products, your first impressions, and the topics in the poll in this thread.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Apr 2006, 3:49am

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mikeysnipaa

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Serpent wrote:


I think a better undo/redo system needs to be added. You can only undo once in the version I have.
YES!!! pleaseeee sad
Posted: Wed, 5th Apr 2006, 6:55am

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Redhawksrymmer

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The ability to move windows around, and support for dual displays would make the programs look (even) more professional.
Posted: Mon, 24th Apr 2006, 2:06am

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NickD

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I really like the idea of video tutorials. Don't know why.
Posted: Mon, 24th Apr 2006, 7:53pm

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destron

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personally, i hate the idea of video tutorials. with written tuts, it's so much easier to skip on ahead if you already know something; with video tutorials you have to keep skipping around for an indefenite period of time trying to find what you're looking for. with text-picture tutorials you don't have to do that.
Posted: Mon, 24th Apr 2006, 7:55pm

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Garrison

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destron wrote:

personally, i hate the idea of video tutorials. with written tuts, it's so much easier to skip on ahead if you already know something; with video tutorials you have to keep skipping around for an indefenite period of time trying to find what you're looking for. with text-picture tutorials you don't have to do that.
I think the video tutorials everyone is referring to is 1 tutorial for 1 effect kind of thing. Not necessarily one long 2 hour video with all the tutorials in them.

Course, I may be wrong.

P.S. I vote for changing the undo function so that I can undo at least the last 10 steps I did.
Posted: Mon, 24th Apr 2006, 8:00pm

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destron

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possibly, but for stuff like how to do a sequence of things, like how to make a new preset, it would be disastrous.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 8:50pm

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tsavage

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I chose sample files but I would also like to gee some cool text effects.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 10:06pm

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Ouellette

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am i just stupid or has there always been a text generator in
FX lab?

It would be nice if there was one.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 11:40pm

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Axeman

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There has never been a text generator in EffectsLab.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 1:37am

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irishcult

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DUDE the Undo thing would RULE omg i hate that undo BUTTON!
Posted: Mon, 26th Jun 2006, 3:30pm

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film freak

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Nobody has posted here in a while, but I have some suggestions that I thought of earlier. They are:

#1
The ability for all to rate posts. Gold users and product owners can, so it seems like a good idea to me. You could have a post rating option in your preferences, you put in your screen name and password, and then you can rate posts. But, like everyone else, you would lose these priviledges if you rate unfairly.

#2
Seeing who rates your posts. Not other peoples', but your own. It would be nice to see who is rating posts sometimes, IMO. And then this would give other people a way to see if someone is rating unfairly, and could report it.
Thanks for reading.

Film Freak
Posted: Mon, 26th Jun 2006, 3:34pm

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TimmyD

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film freak wrote:

Nobody has posted here in a while, but I have some suggestions that I thought of earlier. They are:

#1
The ability for all to rate posts. Gold users and product owners can, so it seems like a good idea to me. You could have a post rating option in your preferences, you put in your screen name and password, and then you can rate posts. But, like everyone else, you would lose these priviledges if you rate unfairly.

#2
Seeing who rates your posts. Not other peoples', but your own. It would be nice to see who is rating posts sometimes, IMO. And then this would give other people a way to see if someone is rating unfairly, and could report it.
Thanks for reading.

Film Freak
#1 Could be a good idea...

#2 Is NOT a good idea... anonymity plays a large part in whether or not someone will actually rate a post. You don't often see superusers rated down when someone else of a lower stature would be, most likely because 1) the superuser can see who rated them, and 2) can then remove the rating or seek action further (not that any of the wonderful almighty superusers would do such a thing).

Last edited Mon, 26th Jun 2006, 3:53pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 26th Jun 2006, 3:36pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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#1 is a bad idea for the same reasons that gold users votes are worth more in the cinema - one user could sign up multiple times and rate people down once with each account.

Gold users get the priveledge of rating posts because
1) they're sanctioned product owners and therefore granted access to the full features of the community (this is a place for product owners afterall).
2) their details are bound to their account so any misbehaviour is easily tracked.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 7:55pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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#1 is a bad idea, imagine how many people with low force would create more accounts just for rating up themselves. I know the moderators could change this, but it would just become messy.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 8:32pm

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Wizard

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Rating: +2

TimmyD wrote:

You don't often see superusers rated down when someone else of a lower stature would be, most likely because...2) can then remove the rating or seek action further (not that any of the wonderful almighty superusers would do such a thing).
I just want to make it known to every member, that this is an option available for every one. If you believe the rating system has been miss used, and that you have been a victim of another member abusing the system, the option of contacting a moderator to find out what possible solutions there are is always open.

It is the obligation of a moderator to make this community a fair, and trust worthy one, and the last thing we want is for any member to feel that they can not confide in us, or to feel that we are some how beyond the guide lines that every member must follow.

Everyone should be aware that if you are having a problem with another member, contact a moderator, and tell them exactly what is going on. If the person in question happens to be a moderator, contact one of the team, and they will pursue a subtle course of action. Usually the majority of issues between members are simply misunderstandings, and some one along the way got the wrong idea, or their intentions were misinterpreted.

Try to remember that.
Wizard.