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Revolution Renamed Nintendo 'Wii'

Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 7:25pm

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Zea

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The new upcoming Nintendo next-gen console has just been officially dubbed, 'Nintendo Wii' after several years of being code-named the 'Nintendo Revolution.' Pronounced "we," the small, thin, and sleek console with a new name may reveal some more secrets at this years upcoming E3.

Nintendo's UK Press Branch has released a teaser flash movie here, and the following text:

Introducing Wii.

As in "we."
While the code-name "Revolution" expressed our direction, Wii
represents the answer.
Wii will break down that wall that separates video game players from everybody else.
Wii will put people more in touch with their games ... and each other. But you're probably asking:
What does the name mean?
Wii sounds like "we," which emphasizes this console is for everyone.
Wii can easily be remembered by people around the world, no matter what language they speak.
No confusion. No need to abbreviate. Just Wii.
Wii has a distinctive "ii" spelling that symbolizes both the unique controllers and the image of people gathering to play.
And Wii, as a name and a console, brings something revolutionary to the world of video games that sets it apart from the crowd.

So that's Wii. But now Nintendo needs you.

Because, it's really not about you or me.

It's about Wii.

And together, Wii will change everything.

Nintendo has also confirmed that the Wii will play 12 centimeter "Wii Discs." Instead of a tray, the Wii will feature a self loading bay, which can also hold and play GameCube discs. There wil also be an external device for DVD Disc Video Playback.

(I work for http://www.gamedrift.com , and I wrote that article.) What do you guys think of the new name?
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 7:34pm

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film freak

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I like the concept of the name, but still. It sounds so strange. "Hey man, wanna come to my house and play some wii?" I would rather it have stayed the revolution, but oh well.

EDIT: Also, if anybody is interested, there is a new New Super Mario Bros. trailer at http://mario.nintendo.com enjoy. (Note: Macromedia flash 8 required. It's downloadable on the website.)

Last edited Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 8:37pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 7:41pm

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Evman

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Yeah, IMO it seems their defeating their purpose of keeping it simple and easy to understand, because it took that entire paragraph written there for me to get what Wii means. I think revolution was a good name anyway, and they should have kept it.
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 8:51pm

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Waser

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I do agree though, Wii really is the name of some futuristic socialist nightmare electronic device.

"Hey, what are we going to do tonight?"
"We could get some orange drink and play some Wii."
"That sounds accceptable."


Bill Hicks is my God.
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 8:58pm

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A Pickle

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*stabs self*

/cry
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 9:01pm

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Pooky

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Hopefully the Wee jokes will get old soon. They're even worse than the name. surprised
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 9:02pm

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Waser

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Don't get me wrong, I far from hate the name. It's just really.....odd? But that can be really good as well. Either way, I'm still getting one
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 9:17pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Perhaps for a change Nintendo can Wii all over the competition...

Come on, it's a pretty damn stupid name.
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 9:22pm

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Waser

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Fine. I'll admit it. The name sucks. But this is the only time I'll say it. After this I'll always pull the "It's not bad, it's different!" thing. But yeah it blows.
Posted: Thu, 27th Apr 2006, 11:01pm

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er-no

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Almost as bad as the 'Playstation 3', or 'Xbox'.

It'll attract attention. I just Nintendo can make that worthwhile.

It's a crap name, but Revolution was pretty stupid too.
They shoulda called it 'OMFGraphics' or something
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 8:26am

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Simon K Jones

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This is joke, I presume? An internet spoof?
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 9:58am

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er-no

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Tarn wrote:

This is joke, I presume? An internet spoof?
Nope.
Actually, the Japanese will love it.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:40am

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Serpent

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However, the Americans and Europeans, who aren't as crazy, will hate it. o_0 I am boycotting the name, I am calling it Revolution forever. I will never invite any friend over to play my Wii.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:41am

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er-no

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Serpent wrote:

However, the Americans and Europeans, who aren't as crazy, will hate it. o_0 I am boycotting the name, I am calling it Revolution forever. I will never invite any friend over to play my Wii.
How is it even pronounced? heh
Oh boy, I'm taking the mick outta some of the Nintendo guys when I speak to them next. What a retarded name.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:42am

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Simon K Jones

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Yeah, "Do you want to come round and play with my Wii" just doesn't sound right if you ask me.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:44am

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Serpent

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Pronounced "We" as Zea said. Read the interview with Perrin Kaplan on IGN Wii (Oh God), lame excuses.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 11:28am

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Hybrid-Halo

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If anything, this will highlight exactly how ridiculous some Nintendo fans are - I'm not saying that Playstation or Xbox fanboys are any less ridiculous, it's more of a study of fanboy related activities as a whole.

If Playstation 3 is renamed "PooStation" then it'll be as bad as "Nintendo Wii". Not before.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 11:35am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Wii? Eh, makes no more sense than 'Atari', 'Nintendo', 'Sega', 'Dreamcast', or 'X-Box' mean to us. Sure, some of those may have Japanese or other language interpretations or not, but none of them really tell the American or Europeon markets as to what they do. 'Gameboy' and 'Sega CD' may have had a little more info, but that's after Nintendo and Sega had already made a name in the market. Sony's release of 'Playstation' created a concept that was blatant and obvious as to what it was, so their leap into the game market worked. So I don't think Wii will be that bad once it establishes itself.

My main concern is the fact that I just do not play video games anymore... or more realistically, I don't play any NEW video games. The newest system I own is Nintendo 64, and after the fall of the cartridge I just kinda lost interest. For me, there is something classic and gritty in blowing on the chip contacts and inserting the cartridge to hear that click as it locks into place. I could never get into the whir of a CD. Plus, when I buy a game, I like to be able to buy it, play it, save it, and play it later... I do NOT like to have to buy separate memory cards and crap... more money spent does not equal a Happy Dan... especially now that systems get more and more expensive.

Furthermore, I like the old games. Games are not made like they used to be made. The hardest puzzles to figure out were in Zelda, but doable. When it comes to things in newer games, the things that seem to come out more and more are racing games and RPGs, both of which I never played anyway. Or they just get to the point where I lose interest too fast if it becomes too difficult. I don't even look to beat games, I never have. It took me forever to beat Zelda: A Link To The Past... And I have played Sonic The Hedgehog 2 so much that I can beat it in about 10 minutes. Regardless, I still play them either to work hard (at something that people now find to be cakewalk) or to speed through something that is now second nature, because in both cases I still have fun. Thus, I have to be entertained, and that often just doesn't happen anymore. I don't care how sexy the graphics are. Which brings another pet peeve of mine is that a lot of companies think that Awesome Graphics=Awesome Game.. and that just isn't true. When I try to play new games, I usually end up sounding like this kid, and that gets just too damn ugly. That isn't fun, that is anger.

So while all these new systems continue to come out, I will still continue to stare at them with glazed eyes. And then I will turn around and pick up my cracked joystick and play Donkey Kong on my Atari 7800.

I know that many many others do NOT share these sentiments, and I know the video game market is massive (which is worthy of another topic: the downfall of the toy. I think I'll start that topic up). My personal motto lately has been: "The Emulator Is The Greatest Invention Ever!" biggrin


And after all that, I will take a deep breath, perhaps swallow a bit of that pride I just spouted off above, and leave with this final thought... I watched the trailer for the new Mario game, and had what my friend Talitha calls a "joygasm"... Why? Because while there are some 3D elements shown, it still had one key thing: it looks to be a SIDE SCROLLER!? I hope the entire game is like that. And one last thing as well... I have heard that Nintendo will be releasing a large library of its classic games from the past that can be purchased and downloaded to the hard drive of the Wii system... is this true? Because if so, even me, the man who lives in the video game dark ages, may take a closer look at this system. Perhaps I might even consider *cough*buyingonefromebayatsomepointafteritsrelease*cough*

More info would be GREATLY appreciated.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 11:37am

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Simon K Jones

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BackOfTheHearse wrote:

Wii? Eh, makes no more sense than 'Atari', 'Nintendo', 'Sega', 'Dreamcast', or 'X-Box' mean to us. Sure, some of those may have Japanese or other language interpretations or not, but none of them really tell the American or Europeon markets as to what they do.
None of them sound exactly like an alternative word for 'urine', either, which I think is the main issue here.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 12:29pm

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Remco Gerritsen

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Nintendo lost one buyer here....
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 6:20pm

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jonky64

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The names fine with me. In time the name will grow on you so don't deny the inevitable, you will like it! HAHA (Evil Laugh)
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 6:58pm

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film freak

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Serpent wrote:

However, the Americans and Europeans, who aren't as crazy, will hate it. o_0 I am boycotting the name, I am calling it Revolution forever. I will never invite any friend over to play my Wii.
Let's just hope that the motto isn't, "Finally, you can play with your wii." biggrin
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 7:16pm

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Evman

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rrfproductions wrote:

Nintendo lost one buyer here....
Lol. My respect for Nintendo has now dwindled to an all time low, even beating out when the DS first launched and there were no good games. Hopefully the same thing will happen (games like Mario Kart and Metroid and Tony Hawk come out a year later), and my respect will be boosted enough to warrant a purchase. If not, I'll probably have to settle for "Poopstation 3" or "X-Bawx Three Six Tee" (sigh.)
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 7:44pm

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Fill

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I thought Revolution was a pretty cool name but I wasn't suprised at all considering Nintendo's very odd moves...
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 7:55pm

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Waser

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The name may be stupid, but there's no way in hell im not getting one
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 7:59pm

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jstow222

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"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet."
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 8:57pm

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Waser

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"Not if they were called 'Stink Blossoms'."
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 9:31pm

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jstow222

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Waser wrote:

"Not if they were called 'Stink Blossoms'."
Gee Waser that post was for you. Considering you are the only one here who actually wants to own a wii.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:41pm

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Waser

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heheh I know, but I just wanted to use that really funny simpsons quote.
Posted: Fri, 28th Apr 2006, 10:41pm

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petet2

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Maybe they should pronounce it "double-you two"...or say it is a symbol and doesn't have a sound like the artist formerly known as Prince smile
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 12:08am

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destron

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what the heck is wrong with just 'revolution'?? 'wii' sucks.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 12:08am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Waser wrote:

"Not if they were called 'Stink Blossoms'."
Actually, here's a little history lesson of sorts for you:

"Stinks" used to refer to any kind of smell, pleasant or not... It was normal to hear something along the lines of, "This rose stinks sweetly".
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 6:57am

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Atom

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"Wii" completely defeats the sexyness of Nintendo and it's fanbase.

I know ima cop-out for my elegant, graphic-trumping, blu-ray disc-playing playa:

Pee Ess Three. It just sounds so foreign and naughty. I'll take a Playstation over Nintendo anyday. Settle for a PS3? Settle? Saying you'll settle for a PS3 over a Wii is like saying "I guess I'll settle for that Ferrari over this Dodge Neon." wink

I mean, I was thinking about getting a Revolution, even with the less powerful processor and graphics, but c'mon........."Wii". What Caffeine-induced, pot-smoking, inbred-retarded Japanese dude came up with that crap?



"Dude, you got some Wii?"
"Come get in the van little children, I got a Wii for you."
"Let's Wii all night long."
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 4:34pm

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Evman

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I don't give a crap about graphics. Thats why I hate PS3 and Xbox 360- they're just the PS2 and the Xbox with updated graphics. At least Nintendo had the balls to try something new. I hate the name, but at least the system itself is something different than the same old crap.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 4:45pm

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Kid

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Evman wrote:

I don't give a crap about graphics. Thats why I hate PS3 and Xbox 360- they're just the PS2 and the Xbox with updated graphics. At least Nintendo had the balls to try something new. I hate the name, but at least the system itself is something different than the same old crap.
The PS3 isnt even out yet so how can you comment that it is only a PS2 with better graphics?

What you fail to realise is that it takes a while for developers to figure out how to use the full potential of a new system. Thats why the PS2 lastest so long.

At first they may just be better graphically but after a while that extra power will enable features like HDR and proper nightsight that can be dazzled and fully destructable scenery and lots of other things that haven't even been thought of that will not only look good but seriously impact gameplay.

Also you can not underestimate the improvement of online modes which are improving and changing the way we play on consoles.

In comparison to this a gimmicky controller that has been tried and declared rubbish on the PC already is not really going to cut it.

As for it being called Wii I guess they can only have not have realised its meaning in the west and the way a Japanese company is structured it wouldn't feed back to those that call the shots. I don't think it will actually make much difference, people who like crazy nintendo games will buy it and those that don't will get a PS3 whatever the name is.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 4:55pm

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er-no

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I actually think 'Wii' is a better name than XBox360.

Also, the 'Wii' is the first Nintendo console which doesnt have 'Nintendo' in the name. It's a brave or stupid move by Nintendo, and apparently they won't go back on it at E3... although I do think they'll do the decent thing and apologise somehow....
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 5:11pm

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Klut

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Who decided that PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are good names?

I find Nintendo Wii far more original.



And what you're all forgeting is: It will be better then everything else, so the name doesn't really matter.
I never judge people by their names, and I don't judge products by their names...


I'm getting one on the release date.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 5:18pm

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er-no

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Klut wrote:


And what you're all forgeting is: It will be better then everything else, so the name doesn't really matter.
I never judge people by their names, and I don't judge products by their names...


I'm getting one on the release date.
I had to hand someone a payment voucher the other day, his name was 'Richard Nobhead'.

I found it hard not to smile.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 5:23pm

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Waser

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I read a really cool article about other things that had really stupid names at first, but people grew to accept them. The article focused on Yahoo! and Google. Seriously, think of google.

Then again, Google isn't a synonym for taking a wiz. At least for not most people.

Oh and if we're going for funny names. Karl Asshammer. I swear to God he's in the salt lake city phone book
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 6:10pm

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er-no

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I saw Silent Hill Waser...

I might even start a topic (although I was waiting for someone else too) wink
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 9:03pm

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Bryce007

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Evman wrote:

I don't give a crap about graphics. Thats why I hate PS3 and Xbox 360- t
So you'd prefer the graphics be terrible as long as the game is sorta fun? I doubt anyone really thinks that. Think about it. Which was more fun. 2d zelda, or a fully 3d zelda with alot more exploration etc.. options? and the new zelda thats coming out, Maybe you'd rather have it have Crappy graphics?


And I haven't a Clue why you "HATE" the ps3 and xbox360. Thats abit ridiculous. the 360 have some really fun games on it, and the ps3 looks to as well. Apparently, You only think consoles are cool if they have a new controller type.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 9:35pm

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Pooky

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I care about graphics. They make for some great gaming moments, and playing through a game while marvelling at its looks the whole time is awesome. However, good graphics rarely make a game, and this is why the Revolution seems so appealing to me. It has something that could possibly make for some really great games.

The Xbox 360 is an updated version of the Xbox, with better hardware and much more solid online features. That's great and all, but it just means games can be prettier, and thus, doesn't guarantee that they will be any better.

The PS3 is shaping up to be about the same as the Xbox 360, with an online service much like it, but a better CPU. From what I've seen it doesn't seem like its graphics will be that much better than the 360, seeing as the GPU is more important than the CPU for graphics, and I believe it has a special version of the Geforce 7. And I can't trust the videos we've seen since they might be prerendered (and probably are).

The Wii, however, has the new controller, which will either make it fail entirely, or be something completely different from pretty much every game we've seen up to now. It's also the only console that will do something that my PC can't, which is why I will probably get one. Of course, the graphics won't be mind-boggling, but from the Red Steel screenshots I've seen, it still looks like they'll be pretty decent.

So that's my take on the subject. I still think the Wii is an unfortunate name though. Especially here, where we speak french. Oui and Wii are pronounced the same way, so talking about a "Yes" makes for some confusion.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 9:47pm

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Fill

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Well I agree with Evman, I think Pacman owns halo wink.

Actually the Wii will probably price ofr around $250 or $200 so I don't plan on buying some $400 xbox when I can upgrade my memory to 4 GB with that money. I'd rather get a Wii and play Metroid Prime 3(Hmm it rhymes).

Tim: Hey Jon come to my house so we can smoke some weed.
Jon: Yeah dude I'm totally up for it!
Principle: Did you boys say you're smoking weed?
Tim: Uhh no sir we said we're going to play some wii.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 10:01pm

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Klut

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Also, on a Nintendo Wii, you can legaly play old nes, snes, n64 and gc games...

Who doesn't want to play Super Mario Bros. 3 and Bikermice?

^^

I've always said that I'm not going to get more consoles, but when I heard that "revolution" could play old games, it excited me right away razz
Sure, there are emulators for pc, but it's not the same, and it's not legal in my case.

And then I hear about the controler.
Now the new name.

E3, I'm waiting...
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 10:32pm

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Joshua Davies

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Nice name....
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 10:37pm

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SlothPaladin

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This might be the first consol I will ever buy, I am one of the few who does not care one bit about graphics, my favoret game ever is Nethack and I play it rendered in ASCII. The thing I like about it is I could play any of the older Nintendo on it as well, that would be nice for someone who does not own any of the older consols.
Posted: Sat, 29th Apr 2006, 11:08pm

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Pooky

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swg33k wrote:

Well I agree with Evman, I think Pacman owns halo
Pfff. Halo. You Xbox people are all the same. smile
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 12:41am

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Evman

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So you'd prefer the graphics be terrible as long as the game is sorta fun? I doubt anyone really thinks that. Think about it. Which was more fun. 2d zelda, or a fully 3d zelda with alot more exploration etc.. options? and the new zelda thats coming out, Maybe you'd rather have it have Crappy graphics?


And I haven't a Clue why you "HATE" the ps3 and xbox360. Thats abit ridiculous. the 360 have some really fun games on it, and the ps3 looks to as well. Apparently, You only think consoles are cool if they have a new controller type.
I'd rather play the fully 3D Zelda than basically all of the games on Xbox360 right now. I'm not saying graphics don't matter, cause we've come along way from Pong. The graphics of the current gen consoles (Gamecube, PS2 and Xbox1) are fine with me, as long as the gameplay is interesting.

My options are -

Xbox360 and PS3 - basically same type of gameplay... can't avoid this. Better graphics.

"Wii" (Jesus that names sucks) - with still better than current gen graphics, but an interesting and innovative control set up, which offers up a million different possibilities.

Would you rather play a racing game with a few pretty levels and amazing graphics, with no story or different gameplay, or... to use Bryce's example, Zelda: Ocarana of Time...? I don't see how the racing game with amazing graphics could last that long or be that interesting. Now imagine a similar Zelda game with the ability to really swing your arms in conjunction with the sword. Which would you rather play?

Another example would be a game like Goldeneye for N64. Its 10 years old and I still enjoy it, and its leagues better than some of the games out today, no matter how superior their graphics might be.

Graphics matter, but they aren't the most important aspect of a game, and the graphics of even the current generation satisfy me.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 1:34am

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Serpent

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Bryce007 wrote:

Evman wrote:

I don't give a crap about graphics. Thats why I hate PS3 and Xbox 360- t
So you'd prefer the graphics be terrible as long as the game is sorta fun? I doubt anyone really thinks that. Think about it. Which was more fun. 2d zelda, or a fully 3d zelda with alot more exploration etc.. options? and the new zelda thats coming out, Maybe you'd rather have it have Crappy graphics?
It's funny, because the majority of the core Zelda fanbase prefers ALttP over OoT/MM/WW any day... Failed that one.

Graphics do matter to an extent, but get of your arse and do some research. First, compare early GCN games to RE4. Now look at the first game ever to be developed on Revolution (I'm sticking to my boycott):
http://www.ngcfrance.com/images/news/revolution/red_steel/
It looks great.

I'm out of this topic, I'm just going to read and laugh at the ignorant posters after I go and take a nice long Google.

By the way, one of the head honchos at NOA in the latest issue of GI stated that 20 games will be out at launch. That's probably a record.

Lately I've been loving Nintendo, and this name is kind of weird, but I will definately buy it and enjoy it. It is sad to not buy something because it has a weird name. I mean come on, Twilight Princess?
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 3:32am

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Pooky

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Preferring ALttP over WW is just beyond me. To be honest, and you might find this funny for some reason (as you often do), I can't see a single thing that it has over WW, although I can see many things WW has over ALttP. What am I missing?
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 4:34am

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Landon

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Pooky wrote:

Preferring ALttP over WW is just beyond me. To be honest, and you might find this funny for some reason (as you often do), I can't see a single thing that it has over WW, although I can see many things WW has over ALttP. What am I missing?
1) In my opinion WW was way to easy in comparison to ALttP. I beat WW in twelve hours after I bought it...ALttP took soooooo much longer.

2) The games are very very different, so its really a matter of personal preference. One is 2D, the other 3D, which means they have very different, although in many aspects similar, gameplay, ect. As for me, I prefer ALttP mainly because its so much harder and in my opinion, the dungeons are a lot more tricky and fun...plus I just like it better....just personal preference again...


Back On Topic:


I don't mind the name. I did at first. For me it was like the Revolution controller. When I first saw it, I'm like, "What the heck!? Now I'll be swinging around a bloody T.V. Remote!!??" but then, after reading about and after several hours, it ceased to bug me and instead I was excited about the controller. Of course, all the sony and xbox fans were constantly making fun of it for a while, but around here even they have come, in some ways, to respect it for creativity at the least.

Back to the note of the name.

You guys only don't like the name for several reasons, both of which I will discuss and debate to the best of my ability, hopefully allowing you to see a different outlook on the matter.

1) First and foremost, it strikes people as odd because, as Tarn said, wee supposedly means urine.

The key word here is "supposedly"

According to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition I quote
Wee
adj. we·er, we·est

1. Very small; tiny. See Synonyms at small.
2. Very early: the wee hours of the morning.


n. Scots

A short time; a little bit.
Next we hear from the famous Merriam-Websters Dictionary:
WEE
Function: abbreviation
western equine encephalomyelitis
No, Western Equine Encephalomyselitis is not another name for urine. Thus I quote from the CancerWEB's on-line medical dictionary© 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB:
An equine encephalomyelitis found in the western U.S. And parts of South America, transmitted by mosquitoes and caused by the western equine encephalomyelitis virus (a species of Alphavirus in the family Togaviridae); the infection is similar to but milder than eastern equine encephalomyelitis in man and is, as a rule, inapparent, but some cases with central nervous system involvement have been fatal.

(05 Mar 2000)
I scoured through numerous dictionaries where I could find them. Amongst them I only found one that mentioned urine in the definition of wee, and that dictionary defined such usage as slang and improper usage of the term. Thus, we can see that this interpretation that so many people are mistaking it for is nothing but what has become a too common improper term in our English language.

2) My second point: People seem not to like the name because it is odd sounding, mainly due to its confusion with the common word "We"

This is also something I intend to clear up.

This only sounds weird at the moment, within time, this will sink in as a common term. The first point clears up the main "problem" with the name and this part just takes some getting used to. If you think about it, how many times could you actually confuse the two words?

Of course, I would have preffered it if they had stuck in an extra W as well (World War II is a more appropriate name for the console war)

Anyway, here I come to my final point, and my second most important.

3)The name doesn't matter! Its the console and especially the games!

This I can't stress enough. If they named the console the Nintendo Coconuts, or lets say the Nintendo Console That Goes PING! I would still buy it. Its going to be a great console...inovative, and more importantly fun. I absolutely love the Zelda, Mario, and Metroid series and definately wouldn't give up playing them just because I don't really like the name of the console.

On a side note, Nintendo does have a meaning behind Wii (arrgghh! I just said World War I as I was typing this aloud!) It stresses the multiplayer aspect and the amount of control and freedom you have with the console.

Then there are those old classics! Oh what would I do to get my hands back on some of those old classics!

Regards,

-Landon
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 9:04am

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Hybrid-Halo

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WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University wrote:


wee

adj 1: (used informally) very small; "a wee tot" [syn: bitty, bittie, teensy, teentsy, teeny, weeny, weensy, teensy-weensy, teeny-weeny, itty-bitty, itsy-bitsy] 2: very early; "the wee hours of the morning" n : a short time; "bide a wee" v : eliminate urine; "Again, the cat had made on the expensive rug" [syn: make, urinate, piddle, puddle, micturate, piss, pee, pee-pee, make water, relieve oneself, take a leak, spend a penny, wee-wee, pass water]
Slang is not always documented in Dictionaries, though regardless of true english - it's undeniable that "wee" is a way of referring to urine. There's no point in trying to be smart with that, it's just the way it is.

Nintendo have named this console badly, I just dread to think of what names were turned down as for "Wii" to be the best. I acknowledge that a consoles name affects next to nothing in regard to power and so on although I can't see a great many customers buying something which is named so outright stupidly. With fewer people buying and less support from western developers I can imagine Nintendos european/American efforts only worsening and let's be blunt - they're so bad that even most hardened Nintendoheads have a suspicion Nintendo hates us.

Ontop of this, there hasn't actually been a top-quality Nintendo game for a long time now, I count the last one as being Eternal Darkness although that wasn't of Super Mario 64 standards.

Due to all of this, I won't be getting a Wii. Good luck to those who do.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 10:28am

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er-no

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It's ok Hybrid - you can always play mine biggrin
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 10:52am

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film freak

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http://videogames.aol.com/sweepstakes

OMG! tard

Look at that! A sweepstakes to win, 3 days and nights near the pre-E3 press conferance. Three people win the following: DS lite, New super mario bros., and a nintendo t-shirt. The grand prize winner gets to play the "Revolution"! You even get to sit in on the conferance, I beleive.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 11:24am

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Joshua Davies

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Always surprised how many people like to talk about Nintendo home consoles yet not that many people bother to buy them. Nintendo stuff seems to appeal far more to mobile gamers than those who sit on their sofa.

If the reports are correct then its Wii's the lack of power which worries me more than anything else. You need to remember to just fill all the pixels on HD equipment you need at least 4 times the power of last gen consoles of which the GameCube was the weakest. Even when the N64 was more powerful than the PS1 it didn't stand much of a chance and the GameCube which had less raw power than the PS2 (although the PS2 was mostly not used as well as it could be) didn't really do well either.

I hope the PS3 developers will be more original & quirky with there titles this time round - I really think they might be following some of the more interesting "traditional" games which have been release on PC/Xbox360 (Oblivion, Psychonaughts), PS2 (Shadow of the Colossus) recently. If this is the case I don't think Wii will get much market just like the GameCube. I'm not sure it will even have much of a chance even if we get a bunch of unoriginal but polished games like the PS2 has for most of its life.

In the end it seems most consumers are not that taken with Nintendo's brand of quirky games unless they are on a handheld - they didn't give the N64 or the GameCube a huge market share and I can't see them helping the Wii. Maybe if Nintendo could mix traditional and quirk games it might get somewhere - but for that it might be best to have some killer hardware to start with.

Hmmm. I guess we'll see soon enough.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 11:48am

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Simon K Jones

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I've never fully understood the graphics vs gameplay argument. The attitude of some people seems to be that good graphics = poor gameplay - hence the dismissal of all PS2/xbox games.

However, I've played some great games that also have great graphics. Arguing that you can only have truly great gameplay when the graphics are restricted sounds like a bit of an excuse to me.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 11:59am

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alpha54

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Serpent wrote:

Graphics do matter to an extent
Now I realise I'm probably just talking for myself here, but graphics quality is one of my biggest considerations when buying a game. I don't mean I'll happily buy a game with great graphics and shit gameplay, but I'm very unlikely to buy a good game with a good storyline if the graphics are subpar.

I always build myself computers that are top-of-the-line to be able to take advantage of the best possible graphics, and I find that I just can't play games that aren't ncie to look at.

Personally, I don't really see this as much of a problem - recently, games such as Half-Life 2, FarCry, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Battlefield 2, Oblivion and Tomb Raider Legend, among others, have had extremely good graphics and excellent gameplay to boot! biggrin

So, either way, I'm not a console person at all but I would be much more likely to purchase a PS3 with revolutionary shader abilities and a conventional control system than a "Wii" (wtf mate? razz) with subpar graphics capabilities and a quirky control scheme!

EDIT: Only just read your post above Tarn - that's basically my point too.... Who the hell says you need bad graphics in order to have good gameplay??
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 1:50pm

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Landon

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Tarn wrote:

I've never fully understood the graphics vs gameplay argument. The attitude of some people seems to be that good graphics = poor gameplay - hence the dismissal of all PS2/xbox games.

However, I've played some great games that also have great graphics. Arguing that you can only have truly great gameplay when the graphics are restricted sounds like a bit of an excuse to me.
I am very involved in this argument, as my older brother is a graphicist.

I have seen people who try to say good graphics mean bad gameplay, but this, as you said, is often not true. The only truth behind this is that one might assume that they spent more time of graphics than gameplay, but this, again, is not often true.

My argument in this regard is thus:

Graphics do NOT make a good game.

But you can have good graphics and a good game.

It is the gameplay that makes the game, not the graphics. How good the graphics are is really superflous information at times. I'd pick the original LoZ over Jack and Daxter any day. Yes, sometimes the graphics are neccesary for the gameplay. Ocarina of time wouldn't have been the same in 2D at all. But there comes a point where all the barriers for gameplay created by graphics have been broken, and then where do you go? And thats where Nintendo is going. It is spending more time on innovative ideas, on new ways to play games, and new ways to experience them.

Oh, and for those who want standard controller style, Nintendo has a Standard controller shell you can slide the controller into so that the 3rd party games don't have to change the game completely for the new controller.

Ending on a note about the name, Wii has finally sunk in for me. When I first heard it the day before yesterday I was shocked and dissatisfied. Last night it still kind of bugged me, but now it doesn't at all. Speaking of which, a note to hybrid, that was the dictionary I was reffering to and you must notice the "informal" at the top there.

-Landon
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 1:55pm

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Klut

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I like how the subject "Nintendo Revolution has got a new name!", has turned into a graphics debate...
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 2:03pm

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Arktic

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Landon - informal or not, I imagine if you ask the majority of British (if not American) people, especially children, they'd tell you that 'wee' or a homophone thereof, means urine. Even if the dictionary says it's informal or slang, it doesn't make it an uncommon defention of the word.

Also, has anyone else read how it's not called "Nintendo Wii" or even "The Wii", it's just "Wii". Doesn't that seem odd to anyone? Like, every other console they've ever made has been 'Nintendo something or other'. Strange that they want to drop that for this console.

Oh, and if anyone releases a console called "The Console That Goes PING!", I'd buy it! biggrin

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 2:27pm

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alpha54

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Can't we just agree that graphics are more important? razz

Sorta joking btw, read my previous post! wink
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 4:56pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Arktic wrote:

Oh, and if anyone releases a console called "The Console That Goes PING!", I'd buy it! biggrin
You mean a microwave?

Back on topic, gamers crave impressive graphics as they most likely need to feel impressed by technology they've forked out on. Graphics sell games, though it doesn't make them.

Graphics are pretty much the only really obvious improvement in gaming over the years too.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 5:07pm

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Evman

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Landon wrote:

But there comes a point where all the barriers for gameplay created by graphics have been broken, and then where do you go? And thats where Nintendo is going. It is spending more time on innovative ideas, on new ways to play games, and new ways to experience them.

Ending on a note about the name, Wii has finally sunk in for me. When I first heard it the day before yesterday I was shocked and dissatisfied. Last night it still kind of bugged me, but now it doesn't at all. Speaking of which, a note to hybrid, that was the dictionary I was reffering to and you must notice the "informal" at the top there.

-Landon
The first statement quoted there is the smartest thing supporting my argument i've heard in this entire thread.

As for the second statement, I have to agree, I'm finding myself less and less bugged by it each day. Besides, I know at least here in my area, no one uses the word "wee" to describe urinating unless they want to be seriously harmed.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 5:43pm

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alpha54

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The thing is, graphics still aren't anywhere near good enough. Once we have virtual reality, I'll agree with you.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 8:28pm

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Fill

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Graphics are important but a good storyline in a game always stands out. Kotor in example is probably one of my favorite storylines and it would be just as good if it looked like a zelda game for the super nintendo. ONe way to prove that is loking at the metroid games. If I were to choose between Metroid Fusion for GBA or Metroid Prime 2 I would most definitly choose Fusion. I love the great story behind it. That's why I think the Sims suck even though they keep upgrading the graphics.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 9:32pm

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alpha54

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I agree somewhat - graphics and story are both important, but a lot of people (myself included) find it tedious to play games with bad graphics, no matter how good the story is.

So, when you've got a good game with good gameplay and a good story, just add great graphics and you're on to a winner!
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 9:48pm

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Joshua Davies

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Any well rounded game uses graphics to tell its story as much as any other element (if not more).

Some games might use a more simple/unrealistic style of graphics than others, and often these games might be made by Nintendo, but it doesn't mean you should be limiting developers with less powerful hardware.

The GameCube suffered for its lack of power in the right places and its disk format and the N64 suffered because, although it had the power, it was unable to use it. Before that the SNES was a top notch bit of kit which outclassed much of the direct competition from both consoles and computers. I'm sure, given the option, Nintendo would rather have a cutting edge machine.

If you're giving developers new input devices etc to create "innovative" new games then why not give them cutting edge power as well from both graphics and sound. Greater power gives developers more options for everything from graphics to sound and AI. There are NO good points to the Wii being slower than the competition but until we see the quality of the games produced on all this new hardware we can't really tell how many bad points there are either.

HL2 has great gameplay on any system from a AthlonXP 2600+ with a GeForce 4 to an Athlon64 4800+ with a 7900GTX - but its better (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little) on the 7900GTX machine. The same can be said of just about any modern 3D game I can think of.
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 10:02pm

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Serpent

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Revolution graphics are not subpar... There have only been a handful of screens for one game, by one developer, and very very early.



What's this, Xbox graphics suck? OMG. They do cuz of that one game lol1

No.

People are also saying the control scheme is awkward. Tell me, where did you try one? I want to hear about it. Every developer is praising the controller and how it works. When you got hold of a developer kit, you must have received a faulty one. Or wait, did this not happen at all and you are making biased assumptions that you are using for your joke of an argument?
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 10:05pm

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alpha54

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schwar wrote:

Any well rounded game uses graphics to tell its story as much as any other element (if not more).

HL2 has great gameplay on any system from a AthlonXP 2600+ with a GeForce 4 to an Athlon64 4800+ with a 7900GTX - but its better (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little) on the 7900GTX machine. The same can be said of just about any modern 3D game I can think of.
Thank you!

Its like you read my mind with that one mate; that's exactly what I was trying to say, only it didn't really come across all that clearly when I said it... razz
Posted: Sun, 30th Apr 2006, 11:11pm

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Joshua Davies

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Serpent - Who were your controller comments aimed at - I don't think it was me as I didn't talk about the controller?

My comments about the graphics of the machine do not come from any screenshots I have seen - the come from reports I've read about the intended specification. From what I've read from several sources the CPU and GPU are not going to be a patch on the PS3.

IBM will make sure the PS3 has the most CPU power of the 3 next-gen consoles (as its making the CPU for all the systems and the PS3 is being used to show off its Cell technology it shares with Sony).

The Wii seems to be getting a significatly slower and cut down version (far fewer Mhz and less cores) of the PowerPC architecture used in the Xbox 360 - itself a cut down version of that used in the PowerMac G5. The amount it has been cut down makes it look like it might not even reach the first gen Xbox when it comes to raw CPU power - this would be terrible if it is the case and would mean many next-gen games from the Xbox360 and PS3 would not make it on to the platform. I don't think it can be as slow as this, it would just be silly.

The reports on the GPU also make it sound rather poor and not much of a step on from the last generation consoles. By the looks of it the GPU might be under 1/3rd as fast as the competition - again this would stop ports of Xbox360 and PS3 games so I hope its not true.

Sure, the GPU and CPU don't mean everything, but when the competition is over 2 times faster (maybe more) and technically far superior the Wii would have to pull something amazing out of the bag to stand a chance.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:16am

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er-no

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Again, if Nintendo manages to get the Wii to ride along with the success of the DS. Hell, it'll be up there with the PS3.

But I doubt that. Oh well.

'Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!'
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:17am

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Evman

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schwar wrote:



If you're giving developers new input devices etc to create "innovative" new games then why not give them cutting edge power as well from both graphics and sound. Greater power gives developers more options for everything from graphics to sound and AI. There are NO good points to the Wii being slower than the competition but until we see the quality of the games produced on all this new hardware we can't really tell how many bad points there are either.
Number one reason for keeping the power down -

PRICE!

If their goal is to reach casual gamers, or those who don't game at all, they can't afford to make the system too expensive. Nintendo has said numerous times Wii will be very cheap. Their goal is to get those people who are turned off by the high prices of say an Xbox360, or the inevitable highish price of a PS3. They simply can't do that without keeping the hardward relatively restricted and CHEAP

Money means everything, no matter how much one can say it doesn't. Sure it'd be nice to have an amazing processor and killer graphics as well as the innovative games, but Nintendo's target market can't afford it.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:19am

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Serpent

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schwar wrote:

Serpent - Who were your controller comments aimed at - I don't think it was me as I didn't talk about the controller?
Nothing in my post was aimed at you. I forgot who said that, but I didn't make it up, that's for sure. smile
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:30am

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er-no

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Monkey Ball, Metroid and Mario Kart on the new Nintendo console with the possibility of playing all Gamecube games and older SNES and NES classics online and multiplayer.

I don't give a beep about graphics when thats on offer.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:54am

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Bryce007

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Monkey ball on teh cube (along with Ninja gaiden) is one of the few games that has made me literally throw a controller in sheer frustration...Well...also "Dead to rights" (but thats barely a game...)
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 1:08am

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er-no

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Bryce007 wrote:

Monkey ball on teh cube (along with Ninja gaiden) is one of the few games that has made me literally throw a controller in sheer frustration...Well...also "Dead to rights" (but thats barely a game...)
I never got too stressed at Monkey Ball. I was too good.

smile

As for Dead to Rights, when you hear a game is that dire, you don't waste time playing it.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 1:52am

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Fill

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Hmm...

-I literally broke my XBOX controller from throwing it so hard in anger while playing an elimination round in Burnout three.

-I almost broke a window getting angry at the last level of Metroid Prime 2.

-I've broken 3 mice(Crushed, cord torn apart ect.) thanks to Windows. smile
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 2:29am

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brennanmceachran

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swg33k wrote:

Hmm...

-I literally broke my XBOX controller from throwing it so hard in anger while playing an elimination round in Burnout three.

-I almost broke a window getting angry at the last level of Metroid Prime 2.

-I've broken 3 mice(Crushed, cord torn apart ect.) thanks to Windows. smile
LOL! reminds me of this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9015039751037156260&q=Angry+German+Kid&pl=true
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 11:21am

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Simon K Jones

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Landon wrote:

But there comes a point where all the barriers for gameplay created by graphics have been broken, and then where do you go?
That's working on the assumption that improving graphics is all about realism, which I disagree with quite strongly.

Take Psychonauts, for example - while it certainly isn't cutting edge technically, its visuals still couldn't have been achieved a few years ago. However, it's not going for realism. Increased graphics technology also provides game artists with more options and ways of expressing themselves and the worlds they are creating. Shadow of Colossus is another good example, which uses graphics to create a particular mood and atmosphere.

Sure, you're always going to get the HL2-style games striving for realism, but the games I'm really interested in are those that use the latest graphical tech to set up a particular style or do something really interesting.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 12:39pm

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Remco Gerritsen

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I recently bought Zork...
I don't give a sh*t 'bout graphics. Altough, nice graphics are great biggrin
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 1:02pm

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Joshua Davies

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The PS1 and PS2 never really suffered from being expensive when they came out. Within 2 years all the new consoles will drop in price with the most expensive being around £150 and then where does that leave Wii?

Games are expensive and always have been - people are also willing to pay money for the Sony name and even more prepared to pay for powerful consoles with big names.

When your screen is tiny (like a handheld) then people won't care so much about graphics hence the DS doing so well.

When your home screen is 14-50 inches (and in many cases HD) I think people care a lot more about what they are looking at. If the PS3 and Xbox360 provide visuals which look a generation beyond the Wii (as they could well do) then I can't see people spending money on what looks like "old technology".

It might work for handhelds, but for main consoles I can't see it. PS3 will support HD and Blu-ray DVDs for your HD content. From its stats (low performance, older tech GPU with terrible 480P max output and DVD drive) Wii looks more like competition for the current Xbox and PS2 rather than next-generation consoles.

I really don't get it - I get the feeling only Nintendo lovers will. I hope when all the final stats are released that most of whats been "stated" on the internet is proven wrong and Wii really can compete to some degree with next-gen consoles.

P.S. Taking Tarn's great example of Shadow of Colossus on the PS2. Fun game with great visuals for a PS2 but had you given the developers the PS3s or Xbox360s power and HD output it could have been one of the most stunning game ever. I've sure the developers would have loved to have had the power of modern GPUs to make their ideas come to life.

Just looking at the work of CG films by Pixar to see what is possible given more technology, complex programming and computing power. Each film they make has an cartoon style yet they have evolved with what technology has made possible over time.

More power their software and rendering hardware has given them more options they have from everything from animation to rendering and grading - just compare Finding Nemo or the Incredibles to Toy Story 1 & 2.

By the way, anyone in London should check out the Pixar exhibition at the Science Museum - its fantastic!
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 1:32pm

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Kid

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Serpent wrote:

People are also saying the control scheme is awkward. Tell me, where did you try one? I want to hear about it. Every developer is praising the controller and how it works. When you got hold of a developer kit, you must have received a faulty one. Or wait, did this not happen at all and you are making biased assumptions that you are using for your joke of an argument?
What developer is gonna say it's bad when they are trying to sell games on the thing? If you actually think that is a reliable source then you are more than a little nieve. If you are just using it for the sake of your argument then at least come up with some sensible reasons.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 3:50pm

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Vega70

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This does'nt get any better ! Koch Media are Nintendo's distributor in the UK & Ireland. That means that Koch will be putting Wii on the shelves.

The jokes will literally never end.

Also this from IGN

IGN Wii: We're now called IGN Wii. How could you do this to us?

Perrin Kaplan: Say that again.

IGN Wii: It is pronounced like "we," right?

Perrin Kaplan: Yes, as in inclusive, you and me. So how could I do it to you?

IGN Wii: Yes. Don't you guys think about us when you do these things?

Perrin Kaplan: I think about you pretty much 24/7.

IGN: Well, of course you do.

Perrin Kaplan: Let me just tell you that if you're disrupted by it today, it's obviously caught your attention. And at the show, you're going to get to try out a lot of products that will make you happy.

IGN Wii: Revolution seemed to be a pretty cool code-name that a lot of our readers liked. Why abandon it?


Perrin Kaplan is VP of corporate affairs at NOA

Perrin Kaplan: You know, I thought it was a neat name, too, but it's not as fitting for what we're trying to do. You think about Google being an unusual name. You think about Virgin Airlines. Amazon. Napster. All those. I think it's as unique as those. They aren't just unique, but loved names for places that we all know. And I think this is more fitting and the two Is work on a bunch of different levels. It looks like two people with heads who can play, which is the inclusive nature of everybody. It looks like the controllers. So for us it looked like a couple of different levels.

IGN Wii: You have said that you're going for a name that's unique, like Google. But Wii is also used as "we" every day and therefore only unique in spelling. Do you think there is a risk of confusing potential buyers with a title like this?

Perrin Kaplan: I think it's really fun to look at, the logo. I think people are going to see that on the box and our package art. I think people will get it straight after a while - it's just something they're going to have to get used to.

IGN Wii: Was the name decided on out of Japan or was it a global decision by Nintendo?

Perrin Kaplan: It's a global name. As most things at Nintendo are done, it was not done by any individual. It was really a team effort.

IGN Wii: How long have you known about the new name?

Perrin Kaplan: Well, let me see. We've been working on a name for a good year and have had this one in mind for some time.

IGN Wii: Simplicity seems to be part of the reasoning behind the new name. Why not just spell it "We" then?

Perrin Kaplan: I think that there's a really strong visual to it by having it symbolize the controllers and symbolize people. And, as you pronounce it, the Wii does stand for that whole worldwide inclusion of players. So you get both out of it.

IGN Wii: The logo and the video teaser you put out seem to stress the plurality of the name. What message can we take away from that?

Perrin Kaplan: I think it's just a reminder that the system can be played individually or be played by a lot of people. It is for people of all sized and shapes. It's really a system for everybody. It's a system for the core gamers. It's a system for the people who are just going to be re-entering gaming. I think that's what people can get from it.

IGN Wii: Why announce the final name now and not at E3 2006?


Perrin Kaplan: Why are we doing it now? Well, let me just say that if you look at how much time people have spent online talking about it today and paying attention to it today, it really, I think, required that kind of attention and seeping in for people to let it settle a little bit. It would be really, really easy to lose that at the show. Also, I think it's important for us to go into the show with people knowing what we're talking about.

IGN Wii: Some overzealous readers have created some truly phallic Wii designs. We e-mailed you several of them, as you saw. Any plans to use any of these brilliant materials in your official marketing plans?

Perrin Kaplan: What a nice way of asking that question! We actually have had a day of a lot of smiles around here with a variety of things that fans have created, let me just say that. It shows you that people are big fans of Nintendo.

IGN Wii: Do you think it will come as a shock to some of the Nintendo leaders back in Japan to see some of these fan-created Wii graphics?

Perrin Kaplan: Well, they might have to find those themselves.

IGN Wii: Some fans have already started petitions in hopes of somehow convincing Nintendo to change the name. Any message for these people?

Perrin Kaplan: Live with it, sleep with it, eat with it, move along with it and hopefully they'll arrive at the same place.

IGN: So will Wii be your focus at E3, or will DS have its place, too?

Perrin Kaplan: We're going to be focusing on both, as you probably know. We know people are really interested in hearing about the new system so we will obviously be having a big portion of our focus on it.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 3:55pm

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Katsu

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Is it a homophone for a British slang word that means "urine"? Yes. But so is the first-person plural pronoun. If I said, "What are we doing tonight," would you repeat back to me, "What are wee doing tonight? Huh? Huh? Get it?" I would wonder what the hell your problem is, quite frankly.
Just one part of this blog:
http://blog.wired.com/games/index.blog?entry_id=1467976
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 7:15pm

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Evman

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schwar wrote:

The PS1 and PS2 never really suffered from being expensive when they came out. Within 2 years all the new consoles will drop in price with the most expensive being around £150 and then where does that leave Wii?

Games are expensive and always have been - people are also willing to pay money for the Sony name and even more prepared to pay for powerful consoles with big names.

When your screen is tiny (like a handheld) then people won't care so much about graphics hence the DS doing so well.

When your home screen is 14-50 inches (and in many cases HD) I think people care a lot more about what they are looking at. If the PS3 and Xbox360 provide visuals which look a generation beyond the Wii (as they could well do) then I can't see people spending money on what looks like "old technology".
The PS2 and Xbox did well because at that point the only people buying games at all were really gamers. Nintendo's aim is to reach nongamers. And they're not going to do that with a high price tag. Nongamers in general won't care as much about graphics, and most likely won't be as technically savvy and have a huge monster HD TV anyway. Those nongamers also will not be experiencing games for OMG TEH MOST L33T GARFICZ EVAH!... they'll just be playing a game.

The average person won't easily notice the difference in graphics quality or performance, and the nongamers or casual gamers that Nintendo is reaching for will have no idea what the hell any of the statistics you're showing even mean. They're goal is to have fun, not to look at pretty things. That, in a way, is the whole point of the Wii, and they can't do it with the high prices of modern games. The old codename was Revolution, and it wasn't just meaning a revolution for control schemes, it meant reaching out to new people.

That means it has to be cheap. And it can't be compared to how well other systems did in the past, as they weren't aimed at the same market.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 9:02pm

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Serpent

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Kid wrote:

Serpent wrote:

People are also saying the control scheme is awkward. Tell me, where did you try one? I want to hear about it. Every developer is praising the controller and how it works. When you got hold of a developer kit, you must have received a faulty one. Or wait, did this not happen at all and you are making biased assumptions that you are using for your joke of an argument?
What developer is gonna say it's bad when they are trying to sell games on the thing? If you actually think that is a reliable source then you are more than a little nieve. If you are just using it for the sake of your argument then at least come up with some sensible reasons.
Heh, so did reviewers who got to try early versions last E3. Also, Nintendo has always had some nice controllers, none made the games awkward. Some layouts may have been weird, but once you got used to it the control was great... Either way, the poster I was referring to couldn't have said it was bad any more than I could say it's good, except for the facts I provided. NOA hates the name, they told US fans to "deal with it." That isn't a sentence that hints that they think it's awesome. People may be willing to pay for Sony PS3, schwar, but most can't afford it.

Also, EDIT, developers complain about things all the time, and they don't come crawling to the system. 3rd parties are coming to Revolution and staying on the platform.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 9:26pm

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Joshua Davies

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Evman wrote:

The PS2 and Xbox did well because at that point the only people buying games at all were really gamers. Nintendo's aim is to reach nongamers. And they're not going to do that with a high price tag. Nongamers in general won't care as much about graphics, and most likely won't be as technically savvy and have a huge monster HD TV anyway. Those nongamers also will not be experiencing games for OMG TEH MOST L33T GARFICZ EVAH!... they'll just be playing a game.

The average person won't easily notice the difference in graphics quality or performance, and the nongamers or casual gamers that Nintendo is reaching for will have no idea what the hell any of the statistics you're showing even mean. They're goal is to have fun, not to look at pretty things. That, in a way, is the whole point of the Wii, and they can't do it with the high prices of modern games. The old codename was Revolution, and it wasn't just meaning a revolution for control schemes, it meant reaching out to new people.

That means it has to be cheap. And it can't be compared to how well other systems did in the past, as they weren't aimed at the same market.
Non-gamers are even more critical of bad graphics and slow framerates if you ask me. They do not consider technical limitations - just what looks nicer and is more impressive. Beyond that its the system which is coolest and has the most new games being made for it. This is why so many PS1 and PS2 buyers were "new" to gaming and consoles.

The other problem i see is sticking a DVD player in it. Non-gamers trying to save money won't want to pay out for a new console which has fairly poor graphics and doesn't make use of their HDTV and then go out and get blu-ray of HD-DVD drive as well because there new toy only works with old technology.

I can see its appeal for hardcore Nintendo gamers wanting to play all their old games on one system but for new gamers or people not attracted to Nintendo before it seems to offer nothing at all.
Posted: Mon, 1st May 2006, 9:51pm

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alpha54

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I wholeheartedly agree. I'm a hardcore PC gamer; I have friends that play consoles, play computer games or don't usually play games at all. Only one of them is a hardcore Nintendo fan. He's also the one who's planning to buy a "Wee"! razz
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 3:11pm

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Serpent

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[quote="schwar]I can see its appeal for hardcore Nintendo gamers wanting to play all their old games on one system but for new gamers or people not attracted to Nintendo before it seems to offer nothing at all.[/quote]

Er, I hope you are specifically talking about virtual console. The Revolution offers: old games for low price, free online services, new controller that will be easy to use for new gamers, good graphics, etc. all for a much lower price than anyone else. That's a lot to offer for new gamers.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 3:25pm

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alpha54

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Serpent wrote:

good graphics
Yeah right razz
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 3:38pm

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Joshua Davies

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Serpent, it might offer good graphics compared to the PS2 and Xbox (although not a huge amount better by the sounds of it) but it'll be nothing on the PS3 and Xbox 360. Once both these consoles are out the graphics of the Wii won't be considered good at all.

Both of those next gen systems can also work at HD resolutions (unlike the Wii) and the PS3 even can play Blu-ray and current DVD films with no additional hardware making it worth the extra money in my book.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 7:14pm

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Landon

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Shopping.com wrote:

The GameCube runs on a 128 bit 485 MHz IBM processor. It has 40 MB or memory. Its graphics card has 2 MB of memory and runs at a speed of 162 MHz. The GameCube has a 16 bit sound card capable of 64 channels at a speed of 81 MHz and a sampling rate of 48 KHz. Overall the hardware is slightly better than the PS2's, however the GameCube seems to pride itself more on its compact size instead of power.

About.com wrote:

With that in mind, the Xbox is the technically superior console in terms of processing power, followed by the GameCube, and then the Playstation 2, which is a year older than the others and showing its age
Now that we've clarified that the Gamecube is superior to PS2, lets move onto the Revolution specs:

IGN.com wrote:

March 29, 2006 - Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has said that his company is not interested in waging a technology war against Microsoft and Sony, whose next generation consoles promise more power and in turn high-definition graphics. The Big N's still-codenamed Revolution system is in contrast designed to be quiet, small and affordable. Nintendo has invested millions in an innovative new controller that has the potential to permanently change the way people play games - for the better, the company hopes. As a result, players would be hard-pressed to find any Nintendo executive willing to go on the record about Revolution technical specs. In fact, former Nintendo of Europe marketing chief, Jim Merrick, indicated in an interview last year that the company may never divulge details on Revolution's horsepower to the public.

Obviously, Nintendo is unable to take the same approach with game studios, many of whom are currently working with Revolution development hardware and in possession of finalized system specifications. IGN Revolution is in regular contact with software houses making titles for Nintendo's new generation system. Last year we relayed to our readers initial system specs based on insider reports. Today, we present updated information on Revolution's "Broadway" CPU and "Hollywood" GPU, which are provided to Nintendo by IBM and ATI respectively.

For today's report we spoke to a variety of trusted development sources, all of whom are in possession of Revolution development hardware - some more finalized than others. The studios who updated us with this information have asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, but we can verify that the specifications forwarded to us are current and come by way of either official Nintendo documentation or benchmark tests with working Revolution kits.

Insiders stress that Revolution runs on an extension of the Gekko and Flipper architectures that powered GameCube, which is why studios who worked on GCN will have no problem making the transition to the new machine, they say. IBM's "Broadway" CPU is clocked at 729MHz, according to updated Nintendo documentation. By comparison, GameCube's Gekko CPU ran at 485MHz. The original Xbox's CPU, admittedly a different architecture altogether, was clocked at 733MHz. Meanwhile, Xbox 360 runs three symmetrical cores at 3.2GHz.



Nintendo's Revolution console, as seen on-display at the Game Developers Conference 2006
Clearly, numbers don't mean everything, but on paper Revolution's CPU falls performance-wise somewhere well beyond GameCube and just shy of the original Xbox. However, it's important to remember that there is no way to accurately gauge the performance difference between GCN's PowerPC-based architecture and the the Intel-based CPU of Xbox. Further, even if we could, these numbers are only one part of the equation.

Revolution's ATI-provided "Hollywood" GPU clocks in at 243MHz. By comparison, GameCube's GPU ran at 162MHz, while the GPU on the original Xbox was clocked at 233MHz. Sources we spoke with suggest that it is unlikely the GPU will feature any added shaders, as has been speculated.

"The 'Hollywood' is a large-scale integrated chip that includes the GPU, DSP, I/O bridge and 3MBs of texture memory," a studio source told us.

The overall system memory numbers we reported last December have not greatly fluctuated, but new clarifications have surfaced. Revolution will operate using 24MBs of "main" 1T-SRAM. It will additionally boast 64MBs of "external" 1T-SRAM. That brings the total number of system RAM up to 88MBs, not including the 3MB texture buffer on the GPU. By comparison, GameCube featured 40MBs of RAM not counting the GPU's on-board 3MBs. The original Xbox included 64MBs total RAM. Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 operate on 512MBs of RAM.

It is not known if the 14MBs of extra D-RAM we reported on last December are in the current Revolution specifications.

"The external RAM can be accessed as quickly as the main RAM, which is a nice touch," a developer we spoke with alleged.

Lots of numbers, but what do they all mean? The short answer is that Revolution is exactly as Nintendo has publicly stated: a console whose primary focus is not quadrupling raw horsepower, but rather a potentially gameplay-changing new controller. Nintendo's new hardware supports this innovative new peripheral and not the other way around. Looking back, it makes sense.

In early 2004, Nintendo's former president Hiroshi Yamauchi said that it was unnecessary to accelerate the release of next generation consoles; that current machines were more than adequate. The Big N announced that it would release a series of peripherals to extend the life of GameCube, but only halfheartedly supported the approach with limited microphone and bongo-enhanced titles.

Sources close to Nintendo have, however, told IGN Revolution that the company was experimenting with in-development GameCube controllers very similar to Revolution's freestyle-style unit. The problem research and development faced at the time was that these controllers encountered unavoidable latency issues, which made them nearly incompatible with fast-paced software. Apparently the Big N overcame this particular hurdle.

Whether or not Revolution is, in fact, a vehicle for the new freestyle controller or not, systems specs rarely tell the whole story. We would remind readers that during an era when polygon numbers meant everything, GameCube's polygon peaks were lower than PlayStation 2 and Xbox. However, few would disagree with the assertion that Resident Evil 4 - a title developed from the ground-up for Nintendo's system -- was one of the prettiest games of the generation.

A spokesperson for ATI had no comment, except to say that the provider was excited to be working with Nintendo on the Hollywood GPU.

IGN Revolution contacted Nintendo of America for comment, but the company did not return our query in time for publish.
Ok, so its not as powerful as the PS3 and the XBox 360, but its significantly more powerful than the gamecube.

The graphics will still be good, just not as good. The screenshots I have seen demonstrate this.

But in the end, its not the graphics that make the cut. As serpant, evman, myself, and others have stated earlier, its the innovative gameplay, real backwards compatibility all the way back to the NES, online features, and most importantly the games themselves that will make the Revolution revolutionary.

Regards,

-Landon

EDIT: Oh, dang. I called the Wii revolution throughout the entire post. O well, I'm to lazy to fix it. Just pretend "revolution" is a really badly mispelled "wii" smile
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 8:16pm

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alpha54

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Landon wrote:

But in the end, its not the graphics that make the cut. As serpant, evman, myself, and others have stated earlier, its the innovative gameplay, real backwards compatibility all the way back to the NES, online features, and most importantly the games themselves that will make the Revolution revolutionary.
DId you read any of Tarn's posts? Because he perfectly illustrates two important points - firstlym that good graphics can enable more innovative gameplay, and secondly that the 360 and PS3 are also superior as home entertainment centres (HD resolution, DVD player, Blu-Ray). Now I don't know about you, but I'm not going to put a box under my plasma that only allows me to play graphically-inferior games. I'll also be looking at the mnultimedia aspect!
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 8:43pm

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Landon

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erm......

you do know that the Revolution as a DVD player right? No extras needed either.

Secondly, I can't think of any time that graphics would allow more inovative gameplay. Sure you can make it more moody, but that doesn't really change the gameplay itself. To me, the PS3 and XBox 360 are mainly hardware updates.

To show how I feel on this, I will tell you that I would rather play the original Zelda (shown below):



Than Shadow of the Collosus (and yes, I have played both):



Regards,

-Landon
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 8:58pm

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Evman

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It seems that all that matters to a lot of people here is graphics. If thats the only thing that matters to you... and it seems to be, since it's your main argument... I don't want to call you shallow, but I guess I am.

Sure they're important, but not as important as the gameplay. It is true you can have a game with both, but that should not be what makes the game, and it isn't for me. Better than current gen graphics are fine with me, as I thought current gen graphics were enough for me.

The power of a system shouldn't be judged on its technical specs, I don't think, but it's ability to provide the innovations needed to create more fun and entertaining games. That is the whole point of videogames afterall. The console that generates the most entertainment and fun is the most powerful...

If pretty graphics = fun/entertainment to you... well then... wow.

So stop telling me the same thing - "The Wii's graphics aren't nearly as good as PS3 or Xbox360" I know that... it's obvious... I'm not denying it.

Instead, tell me - why do the superior graphics of Xbox360 and PS3 alone make a game good? I know Tarn has already partially answered this question, but give me some examples of what he's talking about.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 9:11pm

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alpha54

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Evman wrote:

It seems that all that matters to a lot of people here is graphics. If thats the only thing that matters to you... and it seems to be, since it's your main argument... I don't want to call you shallow, but I guess I am.
Graphics are one of our main arguments; that doesn't mean its the only thing that matters.

Let me twist the question somewhat, it might make it easier for you to understand where I'm coming from. Why do you think we should have to live with subpar graphics just because the gameplay is good?

In my opinion, gaming isn't just about a few minutes of entertainment anymore. Its about immersion. And that's something that great graphics can further!

Last edited Tue, 2nd May 2006, 9:41pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 9:14pm

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Waser

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SuperUser

In my most humble opinion


and

Are better games than


And yes, I have played all three.

Not counting like a 5 year run where I swear a good adventure game was coming out every month, I think games are getting better.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 9:52pm

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Serpent

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I agree with Waser that games are getting better. Also, how are Revolution graphics sub par? They look great to me... and they'll only get better. Along with awesome gameplay. However, my favorite single player game (as of now) is on the Nintendo 64: OoT. I am sure I will like TP and Oblivion more, (maybe not Oblivion), but yeah. Anyways, we have onloy seen one Revolution game and the graphics look fine to me. So shut up and wait. Then you can shove it in my face when they suc...oh wait, they won't. wink Seriously, wait for the big E and then you can further your argument. But if you've seen RE4 on GCN, improve that by a bit with developers that are striving for graphics in this new gen and I think there won't be much to complain about in that field. But graphics are the least of my worry. I want the controller to rock and I can't wait to even see how it plays.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 9:59pm

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Joshua Davies

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Serpent :

Your GC information isn't totally correct - the performance stats are different depending where you look. From what I've read from developers it seems that the PS2 is generally faster than the GC but only if its programmed in a very specific way (not good when you are making multiple versions of a game).

In terms of CPU the PS2 could be the fastest of the lot when its well programmed for. The problem here is that it hardly ever is as its very VERY hard to program for - maybe 10 games ever took advantage of its power. The Xbox was the easiest to get decent performance from in every respect.

When it comes to the GPU the Xbox wins hands down by a significant margin. The GC and the PS2 are pretty similar again but easier to get performance from its fairly standard ATI hardware in the GC. In a perfect world, with full optimised software on both systems the PS2 would probably be a bit faster - but most games are far from perfect. In the end the Xbox thrashes them both at graphics so it doesn't really matter as they all are very slow compared to new hardware.

Even if the Wii is twice as fast as the GameCube its still very slow compared to the other next-gen systems. Your other point about "its not the graphics that make the cut" has been supported by other well documented Nintendo fans which is hardly amazing. I pointed out where graphics can help both gamers and developers in several of my last posts.

If Wii was meant to reach out to new gamers I would say that from this thread so far it seems to have failed at FXhome. Where is HD-DVD or Blu-ray or HDTV support for that matter. Its old looking tech before it even appears - I don't get which "new" gamers would buy that.

Last edited Tue, 2nd May 2006, 10:03pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 10:00pm

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Simon K Jones

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As alpha has been trying to explain, the point isn't that we only look at graphics and nothing else. I'm sure some do, but I don't think many do in this thread. The point is that if you can have great gameplay and great graphics, that's what you go for. You don't deny the possibility of the great graphics - that's just illogical.

And saying that graphics contribute nothing to a gaming experience is just silly. Atmosphere, mood, sense of wonder, tension - they are all vital parts of gameplay, and often can only be achieved with a certain level of graphics.

Take the comparison to movies. A great story is a great story, but I'd far rather have it shot on film or HD than on hi8. Doesn't change the quality of the story, but it removes barriers between you and that story. Yes, there are exceptions, as always, but in general this is true. It can work for something specific like The Idiots, but Lord of the Rings, Lawrence of Arabia, Citizen Kane, wouldn't quite be the same on hi8.

Maybe this is down to a difference in the type of games we play. I don't tend to play arcade games, as I find them rather pointless repetitive to play on my own. They can be great fun with friends, but in that case I'd often rather play a board game, a card game (basically the non-digital equivalents) etc, rather than all huddle around a screen. I tend to play games for an emotional experience of some sort, be it excitement, tension, wonder, inspiration, humour (basically games that are the digital equivalent of a good novel, or movie, or comic, or painting etc) - and good graphics can definitely help that. Nintendo games often tend to angle more for the arcade side (which can be damn good fun, don't get me wrong here), so maybe their main market and types of games have different requirements - that could be where the divide is appearing here.

The age-old assumption that if you like good graphics then you're shallow and don't care about gameplay is simply absurd, and an easy get-out clause for people that like defending inferior technology, perhaps out of nostalgia or due to misplaced funds and capitalist brand loyalty.

So, to sum up - great gameplay = vital. One element that can aid the creation of great gameplay are graphics. Gaming is a hugely visual medium, so to dismiss graphics as irrelevant is a very odd stance, if you ask me. Gaming is slowly evolving into a very interesting entertainment and art medium, and to fail to embrace new technology would be to deny the forthcoming artists and creators opportunities to express themselves. That would be something of a crime, in my opinion.

Last edited Tue, 2nd May 2006, 10:21pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 10:16pm

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alpha54

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Thank you! That post was pretty much a perfect summary of how many of us seem to feel in this thread. Really isn't much I can add to that. smile
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 11:04pm

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MidnightJester

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Well, I guess for me it goes like this:

I don't expect to win over anybody who doesn't plan on purchasing the Wii, nor do I expect to be won over by those same people. I personally plan on buying one for the things that appeal to me. The virtual console, the revmote, and the ability for online play with nintendo games (not living in the same state as many of my friends, it would be great to be able to play Super Smash Bros with them).

Now, I am not saying that the Wii is thereby better than the other systems. I don't really care about how the three next generation systems compare to each other, quite frankly. If I worked for one of the companies, I guess it would probably concern me. Not being in that position, though, all I really care about is if the Wii will entertain me (I am somewhat limited monetarily, and have decided that the Wii is the one I want). I have decided that, while a shame that the Wii will be graphically inferior to the competition, the graphics it seems capable of are enough to give me the level of immersion that I desire. I also feel that these graphics are capable of providing the various style approaches to the games. I know that the graphics could be better, and I am not about to argue that better graphics are somehow worse, but looking at Resident Evil 4 and knowing that the technical specs of the Wii are better than the Revolution, I am content with what I could be given.

I guess the point of what I am trying to say is that there really isn't so great of a need to compare the systems. It will always come down to an inidivdual, subjective decision in the end. I don't care that the Gamecube didn't sell as well (didn't own any of that generation's consoles anyway) because it had probably my favorite game: Super Smash Bros Melee. There are plenty of great things about all of the next generation systems (I can't really say as much about the Xbox 360 or the PS3 since I haven't really been following them), so I don't see why people find a need to choose one and bash the others. Even though I only plan on buying the Wii (unless something at E3 seriously turns me away from it), I still think all are great options with various advantantages and disadvantages. "Can't we all just get along?" to bring this to a sappy level.

Now, to finally address the topic of this forum. My official stance (since I am such an important figure) is that I prefer the name "Revolution," but I also recognize that this is not something we are all getting to vote for. The name is Wii now. I'm not going to turn away from the product because I don't care for the name. I've accepted the name, but still ocassionally refer to it as the Revolution in conversation. I wouldn't necessarily refer to the name change as "a shame," because that implies some greater effect the name has. You can still call it whatever you want, it will just oficially be known as "Wii." Guess I'm done here.
Posted: Tue, 2nd May 2006, 11:43pm

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Bryce007

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I don't think i've ever agreed with Tarn more, especially with the

"The age-old assumption that if you like good graphics then you're shallow and don't care about gameplay is simply absurd, and an easy get-out clause for people that like defending inferior technology, perhaps out of nostalgia or due to misplaced funds and capitalist brand loyalty."
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 12:34am

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Englet

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I liked the revolution better.
Wii sounds stupid and Japish.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 12:46am

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Evman

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alpha54 wrote:



Let me twist the question somewhat, it might make it easier for you to understand where I'm coming from. Why do you think we should have to live with subpar graphics just because the gameplay is good?
I've already answered this - price. It's unrealistic for Nintendo to equip the Wii with a super graphics engine and have no one experience their new innovations simply because it's too expensive. I'm sure everyone would love to have tons of money, and then Nintendo could release a super console with amazing graphics and great gameplay. But not everyone is rich. The graphics aren't bad. They just not as good as some of the competition. If gameplay truly does matter, innovation truly matters, and affordability does truly matter, then the graphics of the Wii are fine for their Nintendo's goal. Games should be affordable and fun.

I equate the Wii to the FxHome products, in a way.

Offering a cheaper alternative to the established powerhouses of the likes of Adobe. You're trying to keep the software affordable so more average people can participate in visual effects and filmmaking.

I'm no expert, but I'm sure, considering the price difference, that FxHome products have less power and sheer capabilities. What you're products have over Adobe is a user friendly system which can appeal to new users as well as seasoned pros. Exactly like the Wii.

As for this:



The age-old assumption that if you like good graphics then you're shallow and don't care about gameplay is simply absurd, and an easy get-out clause for people that like defending inferior technology, perhaps out of nostalgia or due to misplaced funds and capitalist brand loyalty.
That's entirely untrue. First off, my remark was mainly made at those who keep spitting statistics at me and not telling me why. I like defending what you call inferior technology. It certainately is inferior if you look at it from a standpoint of pure power and stats. If you look at each system in terms of the options they produce for game producers, then Wii surely wins. It wins as well if you consider a great technology one that has the abilitiy to branch out to new people. If you think that the motion recognition technology and the ability to support all past generations of Nintendo consoles are inferior... then I don't know what to say. Those features certainately aren't, and the Wii's ability to offer some innovation in a stagnant game market is also certainately not inferior just because of its computing power.

As for misplaced funds and capitalist brand loyalty, I do not have misplaced funds. I could afford any of the 3 consoles available. The problem is, I don't want to spend that much money on videogaming. If I know i've drained all my savings on games then I'll have a nagging feeling in the back of head. I'd much rather spend the money saved on buying a cheap Wii on more film equipment... or, perhaps, Visionlab HD? razz

I'll be the first to admit I've pretty much stuck with Nintendo for quite some time now. I'm not ashamed of it. It's because of the reasons I've listed countless times now. I have had my doubts about them in the past, but they keep redeeming themselves. The Wii will outdo anything they've come up with thus far, however.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 1:08am

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Bryce007

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" stagnant game market"


Hmm...I assume you haven't checked all the great games that came out in 05' and thus far into 06'?


" I don't want to spend that much money on videogaming."


Ladies and gentleman, This kid is smart. Very smart.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 1:13am

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er-no

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All that matters to me is that I shall play you (the ones that buy Wii) and beat you all on Smash Bros wink
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 1:15am

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Landon

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Evman pretty much summed up everything I was going to say, so that saves me a lot of typing. That was really well worded, especially the fxhome analogy.

I especially agree with that closing comment about being stuck with Nintendo. It is very much the same in my case. My first console was the original Game Boy, and my first game, which happens to be a favorite of mine to this very day, was Links Awakening, I believe the third zelda released just after the NES release of Zelda II. Then I remember the N64. Ah yes, the good old days. My first game was Super Mario 64, shortly followed by Ocarina of Time, possibly my favorite game to date. Mario Kart, all the classics. Then sony came into the market, and the gaming industry really changed, now that some real competition came. Now here is something I absolutely have to show, the history of playstation. From the IGN Playstation channel.

http://fxhome.com/forums/posting.php?mode=reply&t=23510

Ever since I read this, I make frequent references to the 'Treachery at the Eleventh Hour' when criticizing Sony.

Anyway....I remember when I first saw the Playstation in stores. I thought it was cool, but never got enough into it to consider buying, being the Nintendo fan I am. It was several years later that I got my Gamecube, completely ignoring the Playstation 2 and later the XBox as was my custom. Oh yeah, and I upgraded all my GameBoys, but still have the orignal somewhere in my room.

So, thats my story. I've always been a Nintendo fan, and likely always will be. Though I do in addition have to admit that I liked the Sega Genesis a lot. I still play the old Sonic games.

-Landon
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 1:26am

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zguy95135

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The name doesn't really bother me, but I wont be buying one mainly because of the fact that I am not at all a Nintendo fan.

I will be buying a PS3 when it comes out. More power equals bigger, more realistic and immersive environments, which will change the way we think about games. I'm not a big fan of gimmicks that generally end up being mediocre (like the DS).
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 1:36am

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Pooky

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Just a small update. This is possibly old, but apparently the MGS4 trailer was actual game engine footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDudPTOznE

Of course, since we don't see the guy actually interacting with it, it could still be a very elaborate fake... but it'd have ot be a pretty darn good fake, and there's no point in faking it anyway.

So... well there's one thing the PS3 really has going for it. It doesn't just have good graphics, it has mind-boggling graphics.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 3:01am

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Serpent

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schwar wrote:

Serpent :

Your GC information isn't totally correct - the performance stats are different depending where you look. From what I've read from developers it seems that the PS2 is generally faster than the GC but only if its programmed in a very specific way (not good when you are making multiple versions of a game).
Don't think that should have been directed at me as I didn't list any stats. smile However, why is RE4 on the GCN so much better than the PS2.


PS2



Cube

Full page of comparisons here.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 7:42am

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Joshua Davies

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Try Google and look up the technical aspects of the PS2 emotion engine. There are lots of site which state how it is very powerful but also a night make to program for.

Your one example is very easy to explain and it follows the very reasons I stated about the PS2 being much harder to code for - especially as RE4 was codec for GC then ported was it not?

This is the reason why some multi-platform games which are not specifically coded for the PS2 are weak on the PS2. This is also the reason why some PS2 games do perform better than the do on the the other consoles - because they have been specifically coded for the PS2 and are not so optimised on the other systems.

This leads me to another problem with the Wii.

Many games are now multi-platform. Where the current platforms have quite an even spread of CPU/GPU power (+/- 10 to 15% difference in performance) developers can use the same media and assets to make games for each. If the Wii really is over 50% slower than the PS3 and Xbox 360 (which are fairly close) and doesn't even support the same shader technology and HD resolution it means developers will have to make specific ports to the Wii which won't use the same assets, physics, models, animations and graphics as the PS3/Xbox360 versions.

This will cost them significant extra money so they may not even bother. The lower quality conversion would also hilight how poor the graphics/performance on the Wii would be compared to the PS3/Xbox360 and therefore make the game look bad - again they might not even bother.

Lets not forget Oblivion without the power to do fancy AI, physics and graphics is just Morrowind. The same is true of HL2 (just HL1 if you take out all the stuff which modern hardware allows it to do) and just about every modern game I can think of. Hardware pushes games forward, and even if on release the PS3/Xbox360 don't seem that much more advanced than the Wii given 2 years and 50% more GPU and CPU power (if this is true) the best games on these platforms are going to be a level beyond Wii.

I'm sure if Nintendo had release stats saying their new systems was 50% more powerful than Xbox360 and PS3 the Nintendo fans would have been running about talking about what new things their system will bring to gaming which are not possible on other consoles. Saying "its ONLY gameplay which matters not the performance of the machine" is an excuse. Both matter a lot as performance impacts directly on gameplay and what is possible in terms of AI, physics, animation, sound and graphics.

I really do hope the Wii is a great console. Of the PS2, Xbox and GC it was only the GC which I enjoyed every game which I purchased. The PS2 was an even split between rubbish games and good ones and the Xbox was just manky (well, I got rid of mine early as Halo wasn't as good as I hoped so I didn't give it a full chance). As a fan on older gaming I might get the GC for the retro games alone (depending how this system works and if there is some kinda button bashing Track and Field game). I'm not sure about PS3 and Xbox360 as I tend to use my PC for games these days - I'll see what comes out.

Last edited Wed, 3rd May 2006, 7:50am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 7:43am

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Waser

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What does Ron Gilbert (aka the, that's right THE God of gaming as far as I'm concerned) have to say about the Wii?

"Leave it to Nintendo to come up with a name for a product that any conformist marketing department would reject in a second. This is why I love Nintendo."

Grumpy Gamer
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 7:44am

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Simon K Jones

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I feel I should slightly clarify my position on the consoles themselves. I don't really have an opinion on 'which is better' out of the new generation as it isn't really an area I'm interested in. My arguments here were specifically against the "graphics don't matter" brigade, I wasn't really intending to be directly anti-Nintendo or anything.

I've only ever bought one console, the PS2, which is something I regret now as I've hardly ever used it. In fact, it turned out to just be a glorified DVD player, and rather a shoddy one at that. Other than some fun with GTA, it's proven to be a bit of a pointless purchase as the games I actually enjoy playing are either PC-only games, or also available on the PC.

So with that said, I won't be buying any of the new consoles, no matter which is 'better'. In fact, the only one I'm vaguely interested in seeing (not buying) is the Nintendo Wee, simply because the controller is intriguing. smile

Also some interesting industry comments here on the Wii issue: http://gamasutra.com/features/20060501/sheffield_01.shtml
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 8:16am

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Hendo

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On a bit of a tangent, this article is a good read -- it details the history of the Xbox 360's development, including why/how MS went with IBM & ATI instead of the original Xbox's Intel & Nvidia partnership.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 8:29pm

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Serpent

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er-no wrote:

All that matters to me is that I shall play you (the ones that buy Wii) and beat you all on Smash Bros wink
Woah woah woah. I missed that one. Now, Mario Kart I trust you could beat me in, though we never went head-to-head. But SSB is my domain. I consider this a challenge. You better import your Revolution for I must take that challenge up immediately. SSB better be a big part of E3, I am SO excited and SO glad that Nintendo is keeping everything secret. It shall be fun.

Schwar: maybe in graphics, but we'll just have to see. I too am excited about the power of the next gen main consoles, and for the awesome way to play games on Revolution. I've played several modern PC games and went back to Metroid Prime 1 and still have a cool environment and feel. I have no doubt the graphics on the Wii will be good. I may sound like a fanboy right now, but I am just defending the console because we don't know anything about it and mostly everyone is making assumptions. But I am getting a PS3 and it will be amazing. I am so glad ES4 is announced for it and all.
Posted: Wed, 3rd May 2006, 10:12pm

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Landon

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Serpent wrote:

er-no wrote:

All that matters to me is that I shall play you (the ones that buy Wii) and beat you all on Smash Bros wink
Woah woah woah. I missed that one. Now, Mario Kart I trust you could beat me in, though we never went head-to-head. But SSB is my domain. I consider this a challenge. You better import your Revolution for I must take that challenge up immediately. SSB better be a big part of E3, I am SO excited and SO glad that Nintendo is keeping everything secret. It shall be fun.
Second that.

Speaking of SSB, I am really curious as to exactly how it will work with the Revo--sorry Wii controller. Maybe it'll use the standard controller shell like Nintendo is doing for 3rd party games? I hope they have something about this at E3 because this is probably one of my most wanted titles.

-Landon
Posted: Thu, 4th May 2006, 1:22pm

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Klut

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Super Smash Bros. Melee might be the best game of all time.
Uncountable hours of fun.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 2:08am

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MidnightJester

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That's something I definitely agree with.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 2:25am

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er-no

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Definetely.

And also. Metroid Prime's graphics compare with nearly all PC games up until Half Life 2. So if Nintendo can squeeze out something better than Metroid Prime on the Wii.

No. Worries.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 3:22am

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Atom

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I love how Nintendoers back the Wii by saying "you're comparing graphics, not gameplay. Wii is waaaay better for gameplay, especially for new gamers."

Three things here:

1) Better graphics generally=Better gameplay

2) Not having actually experienced Wii gameplay, how the hell would you know how it is? It could severely suck balls, and be another innovative, but ultimately crappy gameplay-attempt like EyeToy. (Which I actually enjoyed for a while, but........still, yeah.)

3) How do you know that new gamers will be more attracted to the Wii? Why does Nintendo think new gamers will be attracted to Wii? My little 9-year-old brother played Gameboy like 14 hours a day for the past 3 or so years, and DS for 1 year-and a month ago he got a PSP and "bye-bye" went the crap-phics. IMO, with both teenagers and tweens (the target market of retailers, and the general community of gamers, if I'm not mistaken), better graphics will be the seller.


I've had a PS2 since it came out. I got it a year earlier from some foreign deal in 1999, and have never strayed from it ever since. Before that, I had a Playstation, though I always wanted a' Nintendo Sixty-FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUR!!!!!!!'. Boy was I glad I stayed with Sony. I can't imagine 3 years of subpar, lower-than-DS graphics when I could be playing the PS2.


I heart my PS2. And my PSOne. And my stolen PSP. And my new PSP. They all rock my pants.

The End,
"Atom, Out."
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 12:04pm

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Adam Ullstrom

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DAMN I want that Nin soooo much!!. can't wait until the new Zelda game will be released.


~DM
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 12:55pm

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Klut

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Atom:

1) No.

2) Because it's Nintendo, it has to be good. Also, I'm pretty sure I read that you can use a gamecube like controller any time, if you don't like the Wii controller..
And don't compare it to EyeToy, the Nintendo Wii controller is not a crappy web-cam.

3) Sure, graphics might sell better, but as you all know, most people today are stupid.
But I don't think Wii will have crappy craphics at all...

Oh, and for that last thing you said.
I've had N64 since 97 or something, I dunno, and I've had the ps2 since it came out.
I still play N64 more then I play ps2.
Actually, I play N64 allmost every day.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 8:18pm

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

I've had a PS2 since it came out. I got it a year earlier from some foreign deal in 1999, and have never strayed from it ever since. Before that, I had a Playstation, though I always wanted a' Nintendo Sixty-FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUR!!!!!!!'. Boy was I glad I stayed with Sony. I can't imagine 3 years of subpar, lower-than-DS graphics when I could be playing the PS2.
You are the typical casual gamer. When you said: "I can't imagine 3 years of subpar, lower than DS graphics" what exactly were you referring to? The controller shell on the Wii will allow you to play normally with a sensor inside. Also, who cares what sells better? If you think about the controller and how it could function if it is indeed good, then comparing it to things like the Eye Toy is a joke. Maybe the "Wii" controller will suck, but Nintendo always delivers good quality controls and systems that work, they aren't Mad Catz. So until it is out, we'll see how it works. You are more shallow/blind than any Sony fan I have ever seen. My friend who has a Sony fan provides good reasoning for preferring his PS2 over the GCN that I understand. You just come here and sound like a fool.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 8:45pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +3

Atom wrote:

1) Better graphics generally=Better gameplay
Most idiotic comment of the week award goes to you.
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 8:49pm

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Evman

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Atom I'm not going to even bother responding to what you said, since that post was so utterly wrong and stupid, and makes it clear you've read no intelligent discussion in this thread. I'm just gonna throw my complete support behind what Hybrid just said.

Chao (For Cinco de Mayo)
Posted: Fri, 5th May 2006, 10:31pm

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Landon

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Atom wrote:

1) Better graphics generally=Better gameplay
Most idiotic comment of the week award goes to you.
Second that.

About the N64, yeah, I got that right after it came out. Great console, one of Nintendo's best. I play it a ton mainly because it has some of the best games on it (ex. OoT, SM64, MM). I know several people who consider graphics majorly before buying a game, and the one's that gave OoT a chance love it, even though the graphics are next to nothing compared to today's standards.

As for Atom's post, I'll just save myself from typing and say I'm of the same basic opinion of Klut, Serpent, and Hybrid.

On one last note, its almost time for E3! I can't wait to see what surprises Nintendo has up its sleeves. They promised that one of the playable Wii demos will be a racing game, which I am really anxious to see, and we'll see some more Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, and who knows what else.

-Landon
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 1:00am

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Fill

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Serpent wrote:

schwar wrote:

Serpent :

Your GC information isn't totally correct - the performance stats are different depending where you look. From what I've read from developers it seems that the PS2 is generally faster than the GC but only if its programmed in a very specific way (not good when you are making multiple versions of a game).
Don't think that should have been directed at me as I didn't list any stats. smile However, why is RE4 on the GCN so much better than the PS2.


PS2



Cube

Full page of comparisons here.
A very good point. I think the GC has a different type of programming even though it has a weaker system. But hey a mac mini in many ways runs smoother than a desent windows system. This all goes to the programming.
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 10:07am

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Serpent

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Nintendo booked out the theatre where the Academy Awards are held for their conference. Wow. Something big is going to happen I think.
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 11:56am

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Bryce007

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Landon wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Atom wrote:

1) Better graphics generally=Better gameplay
Most idiotic comment of the week award goes to you.
Second that.

Naturally, Having a different opinion makes someone an Idiot, Right?
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 1:24pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Bryce007 wrote:

Naturally, Having a different opinion makes someone an Idiot, Right?
If you'd like to point out where exactly I called anyone an idiot? The comment Atom made was idiotic, yes. Though I can't recall throwing out a personal insult...

If you'd like to argue the graphics=gameplay point, go ahead - could be interesting. (Though be warned, I will shoot you down).

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 2:14pm

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Fill

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In '04 Satoru Iwata(Owner of Nintendo) said this during the E3 convention while revealing the Revolution(when it was called that)

"I suppose I could give you a list of the technical specs. I believe you would like that, but I won't for a simple reason: they really don't matter."


Well, the freakin owner of the company said it so why are people still argueing?
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 3:09pm

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SMB

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the one thing i like about nitendo,

is thinking about the people who make the games for them


some of them are insane, most of there games are pumped up on LSD, dont buy drugs, get a DS with that warrior game.

woooo


anyway, i dont actually like nintendos games, they apeal to a certain people. mainly because alot of the games make my eyes hurt with the wacky colours - lol

I prefere sporting games, Pro evo 5 and Fifa 06, on the PS2. The rugby games are pretty cool aswell.

anyway


People who wanny by wii cus they wanna experience what it is like, thats fine

but i wont be buying it

regards,
SMB
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 8:57pm

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Serpent

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Miyamoto showed the Rev at the 05 expo last year, not in 04. Also, he doesn't own the company, he's just up there in making decisions and directed the games. He is really just one of the creative geniuses behind the madness and created many of the favorite genres and brought Nintendo into the video gaming industry.
Posted: Sat, 6th May 2006, 10:34pm

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Pooky

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Graphics have nearly no effect on gameplay in most cases. Better graphics does not equal worse gameplay, in the same way that worse graphics do not equal better gameplay.
Posted: Sun, 7th May 2006, 2:46am

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Bryce007

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Hybrid, I was insinuating that In order to make "Idiotic" statements, you'd have to be an "Idiot" yourself.

And yeah, Graphics don't matter entirely. They do matter to a point (for me personally). I find it hard to get into a game with Ultra muddy smeared textures and a super low polygon count, where as i find games like "F.E.A.R" alot more immersive and intense. And While I AM a big fan of old school mario, tetris, contra, etc... I Honestly can't see myself enjoying those over say, Half Life 2. And yes, its based purely on graphics. If your pitting games with primitive graphics, then he arguement holds plenty of water.


But not if we're talking something better than the Cube. RE4 scared the hell out of me occassionally, same with the RE1 remake. metriod 1 and 2 had good graphics (But less than impressive gameplay..), So really, Yeah the Wii has QUITE abit less potential Graphically then the other consoles, But not enough to Make people dodge the games (Although, Since it's up to me, I'll be getting a ps3 since everyones already got 360's).
Posted: Sun, 7th May 2006, 8:00pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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I personally think it's entirely dependent on how the games genre and desired effect is. Some games require some form of graphical realism in order to improve immersion whereas others do not. Some of the most beautiful games I've ever played also happen to be the most visually minimalist (See Darwinia).

It's undeniable, Graphics are important, however...the idea that good graphics=good gameplay is farcical, and the people who hold that belief are people I see as the cause of the surge of lacklustre titles pumped out in the guise of some film or other high-profile license by money grabbing corporations.

I'm by no means a Nintendo Fan, however something deep inside of myself - perhaps my inner gamer sympathises deeply with the way they seem to operate - as though they are holding out a hand filled with gaming improvements and excitement to a world which is too stupid to go for anything without a FIFA branding.

Though perhaps I'm wrong. smile

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sun, 7th May 2006, 9:11pm

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Serpent

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Wii Tennis, and Wario Ware Wii (WWW? smile) were announce.


MAJOR NEWS!!!!

Twilight Princess confirmed for use of Revolution controller for sword play, fishing, and bow and arrow so far!!!! I was excited when it would implement Wii controller, but after thinking about it I didn't think you'd be able to swing the sword with it yet. This is great news. I hope Miyamoto meant it literally when he said TP and Revolution were launched at the same time, because I would love to not have to wait to play it on the Revolution.

EDIT:

OH MY GOD:

Nintendo gave TIME the first look at its new controller--but before I pick it up, Miyamoto suggests that I remove my jacket. That turns out to be a good idea. The first game I try--Miyamoto walks me through it, which to a gamer is the rough equivalent of getting to trade bons mots with Jerry Seinfeld--is a Warioware title (Wario being Mario's shorter, fatter evil twin). It consists of dozens of manic five-second mini games in a row. They're geared to the Japanese gaming sensibility, which has a zany, cartoonish, game-show bent. In one hot minute, I use the controller to swat a fly, do squat-thrusts as a weight lifter, turn a key in a lock, catch a fish, drive a car, sauté some vegetables, balance a broom on my outstretched hand, color in a circle and fence with a foil. And yes, dance the hula. Since very few people outside Nintendo have seen the new hardware, the room is watching me closely.

It's a remarkable experience. Instead of passively playing the games, with the new controller you physically perform them. You act them out. It's almost like theater: the fourth wall between game and player dissolves. The sense of immersion--the illusion that you, personally, are projected into the game world--is powerful. And there's an instant party atmosphere in the room. One advantage of the new controller is that it not only is fun, it looks fun. When you play with an old-style controller, you look like a loser, a blank-eyed joystick fondler. But when you're jumping around and shaking your hulamaker, everybody's having a good time.

After Warioware, we play scenes from the upcoming Legend of Zelda title, Twilight Princess, a moody, dark (by Nintendo's Disneyesque standards) fantasy adventure. Now I'm Errol Flynn, sword fighting with the controller, then aiming a bow and arrow, then using it as a fishing rod, reeling in a stubborn virtual fish. The third game, and probably the most fun, is also the simplest: tennis. The controller becomes a racket, and I'm smacking forehands and stroking backhands. The sensors are fine enough that you can scoop under the ball to lob it, or slice it for spin. At the end, I don't so much put the controller down as have it pried from my hands.

John Schappert, a senior vice president at Electronic Arts, is overseeing a version of the venerable Madden football series for Nintendo's new hardware. He sees the controller from the auteur's perspective, as an opportunity but also a huge challenge. "Our engineers now have to decipher what the user is doing," he says. "'Is that a throw gesture? Is it a juke? A stiff arm?' Everyone knows how to make a throwing motion, but we all have our own unique way of throwing." But consider the upside: you're basically playing football in your living room. "To snap the ball, you 'snap' the remote back toward your body, which hikes the ball," Schappert says. "No buttons to press, just gesture a hiking motion, and the ball's in the hands of the QB. To pass the ball, you gesture a throwing motion. Hard, fast gestures result in bullet passes. Slower, less forceful, gestures result in loftier, slower lob passes. It truly plays like nothing you've ever experienced."

Read the Tennis section. The Time reviewer loved it, there is so much sensibility. In Red Steel for example, when you tilt your hand to hold the gun gangster style, your character does too. Wow, I think I know exactly what it will feel like and I can't wait.
Posted: Mon, 8th May 2006, 1:02am

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Fill

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Serpent- You just got me REALLY excited for the wii to come out.

Well for all you people copmlaining about the "weakness" of the wii you never considered how small it is compared to everything else.

Posted: Mon, 8th May 2006, 1:37am

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Hybrid-Halo

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swg33k wrote:

Serpent- You just got me REALLY excited for the wii to come out.
Ahahaha... ahahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man, sorry. smile I'm afraid this may never grow old.
Posted: Mon, 8th May 2006, 2:03am

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Serpent

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I am not associated with swg33k in any way that you think he may have implied.



wink
Posted: Mon, 8th May 2006, 8:22am

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Simon K Jones

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

swg33k wrote:

Serpent- You just got me REALLY excited for the wii to come out.
Ahahaha... ahahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man, sorry. smile I'm afraid this may never grow old.
I'll fetch a bucket.
Posted: Thu, 11th May 2006, 12:02pm

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Fill

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Tarn wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

swg33k wrote:

Serpent- You just got me REALLY excited for the wii to come out.
Ahahaha... ahahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man, sorry. smile I'm afraid this may never grow old.
I'll fetch a bucket.
Erm... I have no clue.....
Posted: Fri, 12th May 2006, 8:32pm

Post 144 of 144

Fill

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swg33k wrote:

Tarn wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

swg33k wrote:

Serpent- You just got me REALLY excited for the wii to come out.
Ahahaha... ahahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man, sorry. smile I'm afraid this may never grow old.
I'll fetch a bucket.
Erm... I have no clue.....
Oh for fu-

The NINTENDO Wii...