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keying in composite lab vs premier

Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 12:11am

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the new godfather

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http://www.vmix.com/viewVideo.php?ID=552085

that was done in permier pro 1.5, its ok as long as the lighting of the greenscreen is not too bright or dark..., at the end you can see the problems...Can composite lab to this better? And the car was originally a dark green, is there a way to keep the greenscreen key from affecting the other parts of the footage....Im looking into buying composite lab, I enjoy this stuff alot.


Thanks, means alot.

-the new godfather
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 1:03am

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Axeman

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By using the key grade filters in CompositeLab, you can have greater control over which parts of the footage are affected. Also garbage mattes can be very useful for this type of shot, where you have a defined edge to your object, like a car.

As a rule, if you want to use a greenscreen don't use a green car; or if you must use a green car, use a bluescreen. Even so, I have done successful test in Clab keying a person wearing a dark green shirt in front of a greenscreen.

You should download the demo of Compositelab and give it a go, see what results you can achieve with this footage, and judge for yourself.
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 9:34am

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Simon K Jones

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CompositeLab could do at least as good a job as that, probably better given the available tools. However, it's hard to say for sure without seeing the original footage.

Given the greater filter control and garbage matte facilities, compositing in CompositeLab will generally give you far more control and precision than using a general NLE (even a good one).
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 2:06pm

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ben3308

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godfather, from what you sent me, I think you could really use CompositeLab's freeform garbage mattes, especially in covering up the blown-out portions of the greenscreen and keeping the car's color consistent.
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 8:23pm

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the new godfather

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do I need pro for that?
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 9:05pm

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brennanmceachran

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Nope, lite should work perfectly
Posted: Mon, 12th Jun 2006, 9:24pm

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the new godfather

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thanks
Posted: Tue, 27th Jun 2006, 11:48pm

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Lior

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clab is awsome for greenscreaning but what i found to be way better is vector keying by a program created by serious magic called "ULTRA 2". This program with a click of a button erases the green blue out easy. Even when u use regular lighting althogh its even better when you do use good lighting. I am not downing clab. Clab does other things also not just greenscreening so it is good for lots of things; but Ultra was made for keying so look into that. The price range is a bit steep but now for about 400 bux i saw it for. Look into it.
Posted: Tue, 27th Jun 2006, 11:57pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Though that'd be 4 times the price.

CompositeLab IS made for keying and is more than likely able to match the result provided it's used by someone who has read the manual/watched the tutorials.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:14am

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Lior

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Wow it's used by someone who has read the manual/watched the tutorials. That’s amazing. I am not putting CLab down I’m a proud owner of both and am buying Vlab very soon. Yes ultra is expensive as I mentioned above but it depends what line of work u in. I have many videos I edit daily as a side job. Weddings take up so much time especially when ur put on the edge by customers who always ask, when is it complete? I read the tuts and found them helpful; but I found ultra simpler and that equals less stress. Now Clab can get the almost the same results if lighting and all was taken into consideration prior to filming. Ultra I found also useful for lets say a gal has frizzy hair for instance. That would be hell to try to key that. Ultra is fast and effective. My reason for getting it is it is fast and produces superb quality. I used after effects all the time till I saw effects lab which made things faster; again that’s why I got effects lab, superb quality and its fast. So hybrid save the sarcasm. This forum isn’t about u. Its about helping a fellow fxhomer.
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:31am

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Hybrid-Halo

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I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

If Money really is no issue (or you're in that line of work) then I'd go for After Effects bundled with the Keylight Plugin as with the two you would be sorted handling almost any sort of greenscreen scenario. Which would cost:

AE 7 pro: $400
Keylight : $650
Total : $1050.

I'd also buy cameras with ultraviolet light attachments as well as crystal-laden fabric to provide perfect keying material. (this stuff does exist) which would take the cost well into the $20,000 area.

Trying through Ultra 2 will cost you $495.00.

Getting some lights, Material or paint for a decent greenscreen and spending a little time best lighting a subject for keying + CompositeLab will cost you less than $200.

All of the methods will provide similiar, if not the exact same results. Perhaps Ultra is 10 minutes faster at providing results with badly lit screens - though the cost is still more than what it takes to buy decent screening equipment as well as other software to key it.

Perhaps in some scenarios, faster is better. Though personally I've never seen a point in spending larger sums on money when with a small amount of effort and knowledge (hence reading the manuals or watching the tutorials) you can gain the same results. I'm a firm believer in the idea that the screen is more important than the software and that spending more money on software to handle poor captures should only ever exist as a secondary option.

It's really the final result that matters most at the end of the day rather than how you achieved it.

p.s.

Out of interest, what are you chroma-keying at weddings?

Last edited Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:38am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:36am

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alpha54

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I use AE7 Pro with the Keylight plugin, and I'm telling you... its damn nice! smile
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:36am

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Garrison

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

I'd also buy cameras with ultraviolet light attachments as well as crystal-laden fabric to provide perfect keying material. (this stuff does exist) which would take the cost well into the $20,000 area.
www.reflecmedia.com
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:37am

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Hybrid-Halo

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alpha54 wrote:

I use AE7 Pro with the Keylight plugin, and I'm telling you... its damn nice! smile
I agree, though from experience I can match the results in CompositeLab with little time/effort difference.

I think the moral of the story is:

Whatever you do, don't key in premiere. wink
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 12:49am

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alpha54

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Yeah... I think we can all agree to that! wink
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 1:06am

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Lior

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What I key in weddings just an example: I would have the grooms family come into my studio individually to be interviewed with moving backgrounds so on and so forth. Another thing I do is use that cake that comes with ultra it’s a virtual studio. I make the husband and wife dance on a cake seems cheesy buy looks nice and sells like crazy. I agree what you’re saying in terms of money. But also remember in jobs time is money and if you make deadlines you get paid. The average wedding takes about two months or more to have it made. My crew gets it done for faster and gets paid well. 495 if you look at it is not really that much of a difference. I can take my green screen with stands to the hall itself without even worrying about lighting and produce one hell of a result that wipes most of my competition away her in the NYC. That’s not what I implied about sarcasm. It’s the part where you say “it’s used by someone who has read the manual/watched the tutorials." I mean common dude that’s as if you’re implying that nobody here reads or watches that stuff which is pretty rude. Now I get what’s ur opinion; was that line really necessary?
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 1:38am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Interesting. I can agree with the time = money statement when working to deadlines for clients. And perhaps my words came off the wrong way - I hadn't intended to suggest that most users don't bother reading application documentation. (which incidentally, they don't).

I think the majority of users at fxhome work on film projects of varying lengths as to which CompositeLab is ideally suited (affordable and capable of effects which are seldom suitable for documentary style projects). I've personally used CompositeLab for both short-films and for other client based projects and have so far been pleased with the results.

That's not to say it's the best there is out there, though for the price and range of functionality I'd say it's an extremely valuable application.

It's arguable that the intended functions of CLab and Ultra 2 are entirely different - CLab is keying and compositing and tweening/visual effects whilst Ultra 2 is quite clearly intended for fast/on the go keying for static/pre-designed backdrops. Don't you agree?

Having been around the scenes here at fxhome I'm pretty sure I've heard a reason that CompositeLab doesnt do Vector Keying as the subject has definitely been raised before.
Posted: Sun, 8th Jun 2008, 12:56pm

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Elijah

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:


I agree, though from experience I can match the results in CompositeLab with little time/effort difference.

I think the moral of the story is:

Whatever you do, don't key in premiere. wink
Thank goodness you confirmed this. My first attempt in keying was with premiere this week and it SUCKS! Granted I am a noob and don't know how to use it but yuck just like the rest of premiere.