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Superman Returns - *SPOILERS* What did you Think?

How was Superman Returns?

Awesome, Better than expected - Perfect36%[ 16 ]
Good - I'm happy31%[ 14 ]
A Let Down.... :(22%[ 10 ]
Terrible - How could they wreck superman with this??11%[ 5 ]

Total Votes : 45

Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 1:54pm

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Magic_man12

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*** WARNING - SPOLERS IN THIS THREAD***


Hey All

Surprised there isn't this topic yet, there are alot of "omg superman is going to be awesome"... but now that its out etc - I figure its time to find out what people think.


Overall I thought it was great. The effects were pretty awesome almost the entire time, story was good - although I thought it didn't go enough into his kid, and the ending seemed to easy....
like okay he almost died and was getting whooped... but then they they pull him out he flies up to the sky - gets all better, then just lifts the thing into space......

I dont know I wanted something more at the end.


What did you think?

-MAGIC
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 2:50pm

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Magic_man12

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oh and in case anyone interested - Brian Singers video diary - pretty similar to Peter Jackson's production diaries

http://www2.warnerbros.com/supermanreturns/videoblog/


-MAGIC
Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2006, 10:07pm

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Evman

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I suppose since I spent so much time writing this in another thread, I'll post it here as well.




Most dissappointing movie of the year for me.

Most likely because I was really really really hoping for it to be great, and it wasn't. X-men 3 is perhaps the biggest let down for most people, but I wasn't looking forward to that nearly as much.

I can't really describe my gripe with Superman Returns. I really wanted to see it, and I was expecting it to excellent.

I guess my biggest problem with the movie really comes down to one thing.

I saw this film with 4 other people. We all came out of the movie with a general concensus that something was wrong with the movie, but none of us could place it. I finally realized, by finding out what had worked, what didn't.

What bothered me wasn't the story. I thought the idea itself was brilliant and fine. The Lois/Superman love story was a fabulous idea. It wasn't the acting either. The three main characters, Routh's Superman, Spacey's Lex, and Bosworth's Lois were all very very strong, with some very great side characters filling out the narrative. It definately wasn't the effects or the action - these were all spectacular, and the flying was simply aweinspiring. I felt amazed after he caught the plane and the entire ending was incredible...

So then, if all the pieces work... why doesn't the film?

The answer is simple - Pace.

It's ashame really, that this movie fell apart so late in the game. All the ingredients were fantastic and seemed like they took a long time to prepare and get just right, but the final cake just feels like Singer threw his masterpieces into a blender, pressed the start button, and walked away. The editing killed this film. The pauses between exciting/great things were far too long, and I felt myself checking my watch far too often. It doesn't help that the film's most spectacular set piece, the 777 crash was so early in the movie. It made everything else seem boring.

That leads me to another point - the action in the middle of the movie seems extremely tacked on. The bank robbery? What was that about?

Another minor gripe with the movie's end in particular is sheer impossibility. SPOILERS- How could Superman possibly lift that entire continent INTO SPACE if it was made out of kryptonite? How did he die and then come back to life? How come they can't stick a needle in him when he's infected with kryptonite, but lex luthor can stab him in the back?

I really really wanted to like this movie. I was really excited about it.

It kinda hurts a little to me that I know i'll buy the DVD and skip through most of it to get to certain scenes I like... then shelf it and maybe watch the whole thing again when I'm really bored.

Could have been a classic, but fell apart apparently late in production, and became... good. Less than Singer's usual work.

6.5/10
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:29am

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SyroVision

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I couldn’t disagree with the above post more, It seems Evman that you were expecting a MARVEL movie to be made of this DC comic.

Marvel are flamboyant, quirky and overall a little camp, this was shown in X1 and X2 (and X3 by different director) DC comics are based more in a reality based universe, This ironic thing in being that Superman is by far the most unthinkably overpowered hero of all...

Portraying him in a real life light was a challenge and I along with every other person in my group (12 close friends + 150 extras) all felt it pulled this off rather well...

Dare I say it I enjoyed this film even more than Batman Begins, which as a Batman fan is a hard thing for me to say.

The film showed Superman as the Alien, the protector and Clark as the bumbling fool....

It was clear that Brian was showing that at Heart Superman is a being from another world, and Clark is the facade, Clark is the paragon of what superman sees around him.

The movie was well written, well acted, well directed, well animated, well shot, well Lit and to those who went to see a FILM as opposed to a Marvel Movie Special Effects Bonanza... it was well paced.

This was the best film I have seen all year.

*edit*


Another minor gripe with the movie's end in particular is sheer impossibility. SPOILERS- How could Superman possibly lift that entire continent INTO SPACE if it was made out of kryptonite? How did he die and then come back to life? How come they can't stick a needle in him when he's infected with kryptonite, but lex luthor can stab him in the back?
Unless you closed your eyes for the 2 minets he was Bathing in the sun regenerating and overdosing on the very thing that gives him power then there is no reason to suspect he couldent lift it and throw it into space... and sure it would have drained him... ALOT... but again you must have sliped into your "not enough effects" coma and missed him plumeting down through the clouds and like a metior smashing into the ground compleatly drained...

Shame, really.

Unless you closed your eyes for the 2 manets he was Bathing in the sun regenerating and overdosing on the very thing that gives him power then there is no reason to suspect he couldn’t lift it and throw it into space... and sure it would have drained him... ALOT... but again you must have slipped into your "not enough effects" coma and missed him plummeting down through the clouds and like a meteor smashing into the ground completely drained...

Shame, really.

I suspect your a Smallville fan and probably are a little confused or possibly irritated that he doesn’t have the same relation to Kryptonite as he does in the series but im sure if you read one or two of the comics you’ll understand.

It’s a weakening that’s all, not a completely imobilizing venom. It’s a draining weakness that gets worse and worse.

Last edited Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:47am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:40am

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ben3308

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SyroVision wrote:

Marvel are flamboyant, quirky and overall a little camp
I think you're making too large, and too off of a generalization there. It's just not true. Maybe it's because DC has only really put out this and Batman Begins recently, so that's all you have to compare to; but Marvel isn't campy, really.

And then to call Marvel movies special effects bananzas when, in actuality, Superman Returns had far more action-driven sequences and less dialogue ones than any of the X-Men movies. All my friends agree that Superman's pacing wasn't a COMPLETE bore because they used dialogue sparingly.

Also, I'm a little ashamed of your use of the -1. Alot of people use it to denote things they don't like, rather than things to disregard, which is bad enough as it is, but to give someone one simply because they have a difference of opinion is ridiculous.

A minus one is supposed to say "ignore this post", when I see no reason at all to ignore Evman's. For shame.

Mod Note: The -1 has been removed. Rating guidelines are available here.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:50am

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SyroVision

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No man the comics are flamboyant...

The Marvel comics are flamboyant and so are the movies, The Hulk, The Fantastic Four, X-Men, Even Spidey 1 and 2 all the movies are ... flamboyant and kinda camp...



Granted not all DC comics are 100% reality, but they wouldetn be comics if they were... Marvel simply have a tendency to push the limits of the imagination into the relm of magic as opposed to super-fantasy.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 5:00am

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Atom

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Rating: +1

?


No. You must just be a DC fanboy. You also failed to mention X2, Blade, Punisher, and Daredevil. Some of those may suck, but they are in no way campy.


I can't even believe someone would take a jab at Marvel for being a campy movie franchise. Were you BLIND for the past 10 or so years?

Two Words:


Rubber Nipples.

Need more? Okay.
Type in the word "campy" on GoogleImages and you'll get this
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 5:26am

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Mr Pencil

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I wasn't expecting anything going into the theater, and I came out happy; satisfied and pleased. I felt the critics were right, and even Ebert was right but still too harsh.

However, after I thought about it and began to talk about it, my dissapointment grew. Thinking about it, there were a few problems that made me angry, but the film was so dazzling that I was too high to realize anything. My point: don't think about it, just take it in and enjoy.

But still, there should have definitely been more Lex. Great casting with Spacey.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 5:39am

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Evman

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Syrovision... did I make some sort of personal attack on you or something?

What you're saying the movie had is what I was expecting and didn't get. That's why I'm dissappointed. Stop listening to the explanations of the movie in reviews and such, and actually watch the movie. I didn't get nearly a strong feeling of him being an outsider or of him being a jesus like figure from the movie. If a movie can't stand on its own it's got problems, recently I've learned that.

There should have been more action and more effects. Period. It's a Superhero movie and it should have them. And it should find just the right balance with plot and story, which this movie had none of. Brandon can't do Clark well. He's a great Superman but a less than perfect Clark. There was far too much Daily Planet chatter and Clark Kent not having the charm or wit of previous incarnations of the character for my liking.

I didn't like the movie as much as I thought I would. My expectations were high and the resulting movie didn't contain the right mix of elements for me. That's all.

If I'm supposed to take this as a MOVIE, like you say, then stop lecturing me on the differences between Marvel and DC, because I for one don't really care. I'm not a comic book person. I'm a FILM person... and this FILM didn't work for me. And it certainately seems you have somewhat of a DC bias, so whats to stop me from simply declaring all of what you just said as fanboy ramblings?

Sorry I offended you... somehow...

EDIT:

Might I add, if you actually took the time to actually read my post, you will find that I was extremely depressed and saddened to find that I didn't like the movie. I actually was kinda down the rest of the night after seeing the film, because I was looking forward to it so much and it did nothing for me.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 9:05am

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Waser

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ah, I know how that feels. You should have seen me a week after Revenge of the Sith came out. I'm serious, I'm not trying to be clever.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 9:42am

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CX3

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No man the comics are flamboyant...

The Marvel comics are flamboyant and so are the movies, The Hulk, The Fantastic Four, X-Men, Even Spidey 1 and 2 all the movies are ... flamboyant and kinda camp...
Yeah Syro, I'm gonna have to agree with Waser. Could it be that you are a lil biased because...hmm.. iunno, you were on the set of superman? DC may have put out some good movies in the past 3-4 years and marvel may be rushing some of their films to get them out in the theatre, but Marvel isnt campy. DC would take the cake before that. Marvel's story lines are so much more indepth than some of DC's. Superman really doesnt have that much story going on in the comics, which is why I was surprised they pulled out such a great story for the movie.

I like them both (DC/Marvel) but if I were going to start taking shots at one.. id start with DC... Like the names of certain characters.... "Super..man.." "Bat..man.." "Wonder..woman.." "Hawk..girl.." "Martian Man Hunter.." (who is a badass btw) but a lot of their names are a joke.

I had a few other points i was goin to say but I was typing this as I was watching a movie and I forgot what I was going to say... so just act like I said something with depth that made every1 see "the light" so to speak...

p.s. its funny as all hell that when u type campy in, you do get that pic of batman heh
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 12:06pm

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SyroVision

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I agree, my opinion is prorably biased due to my connection with the film, I'm not and wont argue that.

However the post made was in my opinion overly critical, I was simply responding. No you didn’t offend me or attack me and I hope my post wasn’t received as an attack on you, In your post you asked questions... I answered them.

Furthermore, posting images from the 60s Batman VS the new batman (post 1980) is silly... As "The Dark Knight" didn’t exist in his entirety till then.

Yes George clooney is crap and camp, cant fight that one.

However if you look at Batman 1,2 and Begins along with Superman Returns you can't say DC are nearly as cheesy or campy as Marvels:

Blade, Daredevil, Hulk, The Punisher, Elektra, Fantastic Four, or the coming Ghost Rider.

You also failed to mention X2, Blade, Punisher, and Daredevil. Some of those may suck, but they are in no way campy.
They did suck, they were lame and cheeze, Sure not camp but flamboyant. (especialy electra, id rather watch an eternity of Ed Wood movies than see that again)

I vote we head on back to the forum topic, im sorry if i offended you man, it was not intentional. Peace. smile

I enjoyed the film, and in my opinion (however biased) it was a good film, and as of almost everyone i have talked to they agree.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 3:29pm

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Evman

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Well Singer did X2, and that was a fantastic movie... I'm suprised you thought it was "camp".

I personally think there is a fine line to walk between fun and seriousness in a comic book movie.

Spiderman 2 walked this line the best I've ever seen it been walked. Batman Begins was a little bit heavy on the dramatic side, but had enough fun to not make it depressing.

This movie in my opinion just wasn't fun. It took itself too seriously and ended up with... well you know my opinion. I hope to see the movie a second time and perhaps this time I'll be able to enjoy it without the initial shock of disappointment.

And for the record, I am a Smallville fan. I think its one of the best shows on TV right now. I was simply basing my kryptonite ideas on The ORIGINAL Superman movie... which had him basically get sick and become completely worthless just being near a small piece of it. And considering that's the movie that is considered a rough prequel to this film... I was confused by the continuity.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 3:32pm

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SyroVision

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for the second time...

I re-visited stating very clearly that they were not camp. Some one said "You also failed to mension X2..." but no i didnt forget to mentsion them.

X2 wasnt camp. it was pretty cheesey BUT i still enjoyed it alot, Singer is a true talent i very very much enjoyed X2 and X1.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:16pm

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PillowBruise

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Rating: +1

It was defidently better than I had expected. After the first 5 minutes I thought it would be terrible. Mainly because I was at the drive in and couldnt really hear what they were saying. But then it got clear, and the movie was 10 times better than I had expected. Recomended to anyone who hasn't seen it.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:28pm

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Fill

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And Syro I would so say that Justice League show that was good for about 4 episodes was definitely campy. And if you think you heard me critisize Xmen III then don't get me started on that.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 4:54pm

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Magic_man12

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im not a HUGE superman fan - so maybe im missing some of the details...

BUT - from what i do know.. its my understanding that kryptonite kills superman.

in this movie.. he...

stands on a huge rock partially/monstly? made of kryptonite... \
gets STABBED with kryptonite (that alone should mean hes dead or pernamently wrecked and might as well be dead...)

yet hes still alive and seemingly perfectly fine? so how do you make anymore? obviously he cant be freeeekin killed! so we have a guy whose basically invincible now.... uh... wheres the threat?



I thought kryptonite to superman was like sunlight to gremlins!!!!!

apparently not....

-MAGIC
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 5:08pm

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Atom

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Kryptonite as like an allergy to Superman. Being near exposed kryptonite rock makes him as weaker than a human, and then some, but not usually enough to kill him, unless it was refined kryptonite of some sort.

On the "new land" Lex had made, there were kryptonite crystals covered with dust and underneath other rocks (possiby lead-based rocks, who knows). Superman wasn't susceptible to the effects of the crystal until he walked up the steps toward Lex and some of them were exposed. When he was stabbed with Kryptonite, you could equate it to any regular human being stabbed in the back.

The reason he was able to live and get better from this injury so fast is that he fell into the water where there was no exposed kryptonite, and Lois took the kryptonite knife out before he died. He then had enough strength to fly up towards the sun, which is the ultimate source of Superman's power. Not only did the sun rejuvenate his superpowers, but it healed him completely from the stabbing.

He would've been killed if he didn't get to the sun in time. However, the fact that he was able to fly up right near the un is what kept him from dying.
Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2006, 5:10pm

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Garrison

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Rating: +1

CX3 wrote:

I like them both (DC/Marvel) but if I were going to start taking shots at one.. id start with DC... Like the names of certain characters.... "Super..man.." "Bat..man.." "Wonder..woman.." "Hawk..girl.." "Martian Man Hunter.." (who is a badass btw) but a lot of their names are a joke.
Speaking of goofy names... Does anyone remember these guys?

http://members.shaw.ca/legion_roll_call/legionnaires/

http://members.shaw.ca/legion_roll_call/reserve/subs/

http://members.shaw.ca/legion_roll_call/temporary/
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 2:46am

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Harvey

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*SPOILER WARNING*

Well I saw it this afternoon and I have to say that I was disappointed. I remember at the beginning of this year telling myself that the two must see movies for me this year were Superman Returns and Pirates of the Caribbean 2. I expected this film to be great and it wasn't. I wanted so badly to like it but I just couldn't. While it did have some good and really cool parts I'll focus on the stuff I didn't like right now.

The pace was bad. Read Evman's first post, I don't really feel like reiterating what he said. razz
It was incredibly unbelievable even for a superhero movie. I think this is a problem with the Superman series in general. It's just not believable. I never get the feeling that anyone could die (did any non-bad guy accomplice even die in this film?) some absurd things happened.
Brandon Routh was just bad. I hate to compare him to Hayden Christensen but most of the time Routh delivered a line I felt like I was reading the script as there was barely any emotion displayed just like when Hayden delivered a line (if you can even call it that) in Episode II and Episode III. Routh wasn't as bad but that really is the only comparison that I can think of.
And I also thought that some of the CG was pretty fake looking although for the most part it was good.

Now for the good:
Luther and Kitty were great but we needed more of them.
The kid being Superman's son was a great twist that I really liked but I agree that they could and probably should have done more with him.
The score was really good.
And I also liked the plot idea with the love triangle between Lois, Richard, and Superman. I thought it was a great idea but it wasn't executed well enough.

Like I said, I wanted so badly to like this film but I just couldn't. Hopefully Pirates won't disappoint.

Last edited Tue, 4th Jul 2006, 4:11am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 3:55am

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Boyocs

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I really wasn't expecting much when I saw this film, but I thought that it was fairly well done. IMO Superman movies never will be as good as Marvel movies like Spider-Man, simply because they are about Superman, the hero that is invincible.

*SPOILERS*

Really, what's the point of a movie if your hero has no physical imperfections except for a little kryptonite allergy. For god's sake he dies during the movie and then comes back to life.

*END SPOILERS*

All things aside, I think that Superman Returns is about as strong as any Superman movie possibly could be.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 2:52pm

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Fill

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Boyocs wrote:

IMO Superman movies never will be as good as Marvel movies like Spider-Man, simply because they are about Superman, the hero that is invincible.
Ever heard of doomsday?

Last edited Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 2:54pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 2:54pm

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JohnCarter

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Well, Supes survived that too now, didn't he? Took him a little while to come back but he did...
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 2:55pm

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Fill

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JohnCarter wrote:

Well, Supes survived that too now, didn't he? Took him a little while to come back but he did...
erm didn't he die then good ol' superboy came along to replace him?

(by the way superboy is crap)
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 11:12pm

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pixelboy

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JohnCarter wrote:

Well, Supes survived that too now, didn't he? Took him a little while to come back but he did...
Well, yes, of course he came back. He is a comic book superhero. If he died for good, there could be no more Superman comics. That would be insanely foolish on DC's part. Furthermore, he is a character that is so ingrained in human culture that "killing" him would be impossible.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 11:16pm

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Garrison

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pixelboy wrote:

JohnCarter wrote:

Well, Supes survived that too now, didn't he? Took him a little while to come back but he did...
Furthermore, he is a character that is so ingrained in human culture that "killing" him would be impossible.
I think Hulk Hogan suffers from that same syndrome. He keeps coming back over and over and over again.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 11:54pm

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Aculag

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I absolutely loved this movie all around. Anyone complaining about anything Superman accomplishes in this movie are retarded and need to take a step back and realize that it's Superman, and he's done more outrageous things.

Kevin Spacey KILLS Gene Hackman as Luthor.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Jul 2006, 11:59pm

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Fill

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Aculag wrote:

I absolutely loved this movie all around. Anyone complaining about anything Superman accomplishes in this movie are retarded and need to take a step back and realize that it's Superman, and he's done more outrageous things.

Kevin Spacey KILLS Gene Hackman as Luthor.
Amen!
Posted: Tue, 4th Jul 2006, 12:44am

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DigiSm89

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Aculag wrote:

I absolutely loved this movie all around. Anyone complaining about anything Superman accomplishes in this movie are retarded and need to take a step back and realize that it's Superman, and he's done more outrageous things.

Kevin Spacey KILLS Gene Hackman as Luthor.
QFT

It was a good movie. Some people are just overanalyzing the movie a tad bit.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:21pm

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Kyeju

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For real guys stop analyzing the character of Superman, we're here to talk about the movie. I loved every minute of it. It felt so classic to me, especially after that spectacular opening shot. All of the cast seemed to fit so well with their characters and the acting was very believable to me. My only complaint is they should've kept the Jason revelation until the end of the second film. But if the same writers are on it I'm sure they can keep it interesting. For you guys who didn't like it: I watched the original Superman: The Movie right before I left for the theater, and I think that enriched my viewing quite a bit.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 12:09am

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DigiSm89

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Kyeju wrote:

It felt so classic to me, especially after that spectacular opening shot.
That opening shot was awesome.

My only complaint is that they kind of underplayed Luthor. I don't know, after watching the trailers, I was kind of expecting more from Luthor's character (probably since all the highlights of his acting were in the trailers).
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 12:29am

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Serpent

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I enjoyed this and I HATE Superman the character/superhero. I expected nothing but cool visuals, and I got a prett cool movie. I'm happy.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 2:12am

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Aculag

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Well, you got the cool part right.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 7:17am

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Gnome326

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The main problem I had with the movie is that it was way to predictable and inconsistant. For example.... Superman barely flies ahead of the plane to stop it in time. Then he flies faster then a speeding bullet to stop that in time. LAME!!! First off, why couldn't he just fly that fast to stop the plane, and second off.... why did he have to get there right before the first shot every hit some one. It totally took any suspense out of the shot. The movie just was real uninteresting to me because I knew exactly what was going to happen when the event was established.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 7:36am

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ben3308

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Seeing as flying isn't real, Bryan Singer used his own prerogative in how 'great' Superman's flying was.

Limiting Superman's power at times and unrestricting it at others is a point of good storytelling. If Superman was always completely perfect or always just below being able to save people, he wouldn't make for an interesting character, now would he?

Inconsistencies aside, it made for some good drama and some good suspense; which I think is what it was meant to do. If we KNEW Superman was gonna catch the plane in time, why would we care?
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 12:23pm

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SyroVision

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Gnome326 wrote:

The main problem I had with the movie is that it was way to predictable and inconsistant. For example.... Superman barely flies ahead of the plane to stop it in time. Then he flies faster then a speeding bullet to stop that in time. LAME!!! First off, why couldn't he just fly that fast to stop the plane, and second off.... why did he have to get there right before the first shot every hit some one. It totally took any suspense out of the shot. The movie just was real uninteresting to me because I knew exactly what was going to happen when the event was established.
Your right a movie where there is no suspence, just 2hrs 50minets of him flying super fast would have been better, screw the romance too throw that away; superman could just x-ray vision her 24/7, and the story throw that away too, who needs that right? throw that away and Kevin Spacey as Lex... that was horrible.

/sarcasm
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 2:40pm

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DigiSm89

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Gnome326 wrote:

For example.... Superman barely flies ahead of the plane to stop it in time. Then he flies faster then a speeding bullet to stop that in time. LAME!!!
That happens in almost every cartoon/movie. Two guys are racing each other to the finish line. At the moment, both are directly in line which each other, giving their all, trading off on the lead of the other person.

Suddenly, one guy gets this enormous amount of energy from somewhere and immediately he has a solid lead. The other guy gets the same burst of energy, and before you know it the race has reached a new level.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2006, 6:00pm

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Gnome326

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^ My problem is that while he's trying to catch the plane he barely makes it. Then catches the bullet in plenty of time. If I had done that scene, maybe i would have let those people get hit by the bullet, or maybe had he bullets snap by them, and they duck for cover with maybe only a wounded leg if you really don't want them to die. But this is all just things thought I would have done differently to make it more interesting to me. I think he was to god like and to holy, he doesn't really have any inner conflicts, just physical conflicts.

For example Spiderman. He has plenty of inner conflict, be spiderman and save the day, but when he comes home he has no one but himself. This dilemma reflects apon his character during the movie, and plays a decent size role in the movie.

Superman: He loves Lois Lane, but when she's taken off the market what does he do about it? There's no real conflict about it, he just accepts that she's gone, although you think he's kind of disappointed. But this doesn't reflect apon his saving the world. He just runs around saving the world, stopping globes from fallowing on people, and putting out fires, and throwing large masses of eath into space.

He never stopped Lex Luther, he just smashed the earth and that ruined Lex's plans. But there was no real confrontation of any sort. When there was, Superman was powerless and got his ass kicked, then he was stabbed. Where's the exitement in that?

Then there is the end where he fall onto the ground after falling several miles from space. That was a waste of 10 minutes, you knew he was going to live so why put it in? It would have been more exiting to me if he had thrown the thing into space then came back and everybody applauded him, then he went off to finish lex off, instead of leaving it that he crashed on to an island.

All of these factors combine to make one of the most mediocre movies I have ever seen. And while it did have some cool visuals, visuals alone aren't enough to make the movie.
Posted: Sun, 9th Jul 2006, 10:40am

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shadu

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Hulk did have a crappy story, daredevil was not good and Fantastic four was a mess (Doom was very bad and the casting ...)...

Shadu
Posted: Sun, 9th Jul 2006, 5:47pm

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DigiSm89

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Gnome326 wrote:

^ My problem is that while he's trying to catch the plane he barely makes it. Then catches the bullet in plenty of time. If I had done that scene, maybe i would have let those people get hit by the bullet, or maybe had he bullets snap by them, and they duck for cover with maybe only a wounded leg if you really don't want them to die.


Thing is, Superman, believe it or not, is a "super man". As hard as it is to believe, that's just fact. oneeye

Superman Returns was not intended to be like modern action films where you have a hero trying to vanquish some villiain, but fails multiple times until he finally thwarts the villain using some intricate, well thoughout scheme.

I think he was to god like and to holy, he doesn't really have any inner conflicts, just physical conflicts.
Have you watched Smallville or learned about what happened before Superman Returns? Just like when Spiderman was realizing the full extent of his powers and learning how to live a normal life while at the same time be spiderman, Clark Kent faced a similar beginning when he learned about his past.

For example Spiderman. He has plenty of inner conflict, be spiderman and save the day, but when he comes home he has no one but himself. This dilemma reflects apon his character during the movie, and plays a decent size role in the movie.
Spiderman's journey is just beginning whereas Superman has had many years to internalize everything around him. He has a set journey (well almost), knows how to handle the people around him, and has a sense of duty. Spiderman is still learning and will soon get past all those problems at full realization of his duty.

Superman: He loves Lois Lane, but when she's taken off the market what does he do about it? There's no real conflict about it, he just accepts that she's gone, although you think he's kind of disappointed.
?

When he saw the pic of her and her new family, the glass of the frame broke slightly. Now tell me there wasn't any conflict. wink

He went to Lois to talk to her, he visited her house twice in the movie as if to vent his jealousy while at the same time restrain it. Can you still tell me there wasn't any love conflict?

But this doesn't reflect apon his saving the world. He just runs around saving the world, stopping globes from fallowing on people, and putting out fires, and throwing large masses of eath into space.
Well, yes. He's a superhero. He has his duties and must fufill them. Just because Spiderman lost his powers due to a lack of will power and depression doesn't mean Superman will instantly lose his powers when he's depressed. Superheroes are different. Some handle depression differently than others.

He never stopped Lex Luther, he just smashed the earth and that ruined Lex's plans. But there was no real confrontation of any sort. When there was, Superman was powerless and got his ass kicked, then he was stabbed. Where's the exitement in that?
The excitement is in a human of pure darkness able to defeat a superhero. It would have been incredibly lame if it was the other way around, where Lex was the one who got stabbed by Superman.

Since this is more of a comic book style movie, the movie was entirely rudimentary in plot: bad guy does something wrong, good guy comes to save the day, good guy foils bad guy's plan, bad guy goes back to the drawing board.

Then there is the end where he fall onto the ground after falling several miles from space. That was a waste of 10 minutes, you knew he was going to live so why put it in? It would have been more exiting to me if he had thrown the thing into space then came back and everybody applauded him, then he went off to finish lex off, instead of leaving it that he crashed on to an island.
Read the above comments about the fact the land mass was kryptonic.

All of these factors combine to make one of the most mediocre movies I have ever seen. And while it did have some cool visuals, visuals alone aren't enough to make the movie.
It was a good movie, just you have a negative opinion of the movie because...

Gnome326 wrote:

But this is all just things thought I would have done differently to make it more interesting to me.
Regardless of every technical reply up top, I think it's important to remember that this movie is in fact a...

Superman movie!

It's not supposed to be logical. If you should ever question the "hows" and "whys" of a superman film, then I suggest you also question the existence of a superhuman being able to fly around and shoot lasers from his eyes. wink

You can't really compare a Superman movie to any other action movie. It would be like comparing an orangutan to a banana. You just can't.
Posted: Mon, 10th Jul 2006, 3:57am

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Evman

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Okay, I saw this film again in IMAX 3D while I was on vacation.

I don't know what it was, but I really enjoyed the movie the second time through.

I'm pretty sure it was that my initial dissappointment of it not being the best movie ever had gone away, and I was able to enjoy the movie a lot more.

I swear it was a different movie... The pacing was a lot lot lot better the second time around.

I'd raise my rating to about an 8/10 or a little higher.
Posted: Mon, 10th Jul 2006, 4:21am

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Landon

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Well, although I havn't seen the film yet, the high quality clips and images of the effects look absolutly stunning. I'll be seeing the film in a few days, but in the meantime I thought I'd share this article:

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3644

Wow, its stunning to think that even those close-ups of Superman were digital.

But the effects don't make the movie. I'll post back after I see the film. I'm seeing POTC first though.

-Landon
Posted: Mon, 10th Jul 2006, 4:26am

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Aculag

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Evman wrote:

I'd raise my rating to about an 8/10 or a little higher.
8.21/10 maybe?
Posted: Mon, 10th Jul 2006, 7:05pm

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starfan

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i saw it,i thought it was ok but i agree timing was a necessity for this film to be *super* smile

oh and for fans of john williams' work on the film, check this out

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HbL7f_6Zv6E&mode=related&search=superman%20guitar

im learning it myself smile
Posted: Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 3:34am

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Hendo

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VFXWorld (free registration required) has a 2-part article on the visual effects, workflow and previs that went into the movie.

Part 1
Part 2
Posted: Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 4:15pm

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Simon K Jones

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Surprised to see such a muted reaction here (other than the positive poll).

Loved the movie, easily the best blockbuster of the year - in a different league really.

Brandon Routh was absolutely spot-on. I wasn't sure until he stepped into the plane and gave his little line about flying being safe. Genius, perfect delivery.

I also don't really get the complaints about pacing - seemed just right to me. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed that it took its time and wasn't obsessed with trying to ram in as many action sequences as possible.

Superman Returns captures the spirit and style of the Donner movie, while fixing the elements I've never liked much about that (Otis). Great stuff - Singer really is an excellent storyteller.

If I had to pick two words to sum up Superman Returns, I'd go for 'restrained' and 'beautiful'. I've never even thought about applying those words to a comic-inspired movie so far (especially of the superhero ilk). It's at once a gleefully nostalgic movie and something entirely new and fresh.

In the words of Lex Luthor: bring it on.

Last edited Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 4:38pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 4:27pm

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Joshua Davies

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Really wasn't sure I was going to like it but I really did. More than made up for the terrible week after seeing PotC2 last Sunday.

8.5/10 for Superman returns...
Posted: Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 4:48pm

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Evman

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If there is a sequel it will be better.

Unless of course the WB cuts the budget drastically because the movie might not make 200 million in the US... I know, it doesn't make any sense, but thats supposedly what the minimum is for a sequel to be greenlit...

Even then, the budget will definately be cut, and Singer&Co might be replaced.

Unless this film pulls a Titanic on us and randomly keeps raking in money for weeks until it reaches 600 mil...

Hollywood... rolleyes
Posted: Fri, 14th Jul 2006, 5:57pm

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Simon K Jones

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This'll definitely be one that sticks around, both in the cinema and on DVD. It's going to take a while due to the Superman movie brand being rather diminished from the crappy sequels and dodgy TV shows. Superman's back where he belongs, though, and hopefully people will begin to realise that.

I imagine people will still be talking about Superman Returns decades to come, while the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels will have been left on the same pile as the Matrix sequels.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jul 2006, 1:05pm

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Mantra

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I have to say that Superman Returns is the first film in a long time that delivers on all levels, for me. I'm not a Superman fanboy, but went to the movie hoping to be entertained and came out totally blown away.

Finally this year, a blockbuster with a heart and soul, where characters take centre stage and FX serve the story in an excellent way.

All the performances were great, Brandon Routh especially.

Mantra
Posted: Sat, 15th Jul 2006, 2:18pm

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Simon K Jones

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Mantra wrote:

Finally this year, a blockbuster with a heart and soul, where characters take centre stage and FX serve the story in an excellent way.
Absolutely. Singer brought the same fine touch to Superman that he delivered in X2 - perfectly mixing together hugely fun, blockbustery action with involving, interesting character dynamics and nice, quiet moments.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jul 2006, 4:08pm

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TheRenegade

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I liked it. It had the same solidness of Batman Begins to me. I didn't like it as much as Batman Begins but I enjoy it. I really think that DC Comics are doing a good job with their movies. Also I saw Syrovision twice. I felt cool leaning over to my friend in the theater and saying "That kid is from FX Home".
Posted: Sat, 15th Jul 2006, 8:15pm

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Mellifluous

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Just come back from seeing this, and I have to say I was disappointed.

It was amazingly disjointed and did lack pace in my opinion. The editing had lots of repetitive shots and there were a lot of overlong shots with a 20,000-people backing chorus. The duality of Clark Kent and Superman was nonexistent, something I enjoyed in the first couple of films. I liked the idea of the kid, but other things bothered me like Lois not seeming to know Clark was Superman. The plot had other illogicalities , like why didn't America go underwater as Luthor planned. But I certainly enjoyed a lot of it and thought all the actors were good, especially Kate Bosworth and the lead, though Olsen's character was annoying (the actor played him like a dumbed down version of Rob Schneider). The baseball scene was great, as was the bullet/eye scene. But yeah, aspects of the story and general editing were too noticeable for me to rate this movie too highly.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jul 2006, 9:21pm

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Evman

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Tarn wrote:

Mantra wrote:

Finally this year, a blockbuster with a heart and soul, where characters take centre stage and FX serve the story in an excellent way.
Absolutely. Singer brought the same fine touch to Superman that he delivered in X2 - perfectly mixing together hugely fun, blockbustery action with involving, interesting character dynamics and nice, quiet moments.
I'd say he didn't perfectly balance it in the same way as X2.

SR had too much "nice, quiet" moments for a film this size and scale. About 80% of it (or felt like it) was quiet. The plane sequence was the best action scene, and it was the first one. Made the others seem pathetic.

To me Singer didn't hit the right balance, and while this film is still good, it's no where near perfect. I've discovered that it's not a matter of adding/subtracting stuff to balance the movie... I think that for the movie to be perfect, the script had to be completely scrapped and restarted from scratch.

Mellifluous has my basic opinion of this film down pat. Although if you watch it a second time, then you like it a lot more. I know I did.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jul 2006, 9:45am

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Simon K Jones

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Evman wrote:

SR had too much "nice, quiet" moments for a film this size and scale. About 80% of it (or felt like it) was quiet. The plane sequence was the best action scene, and it was the first one. Made the others seem pathetic.
The plane sequence was definitely the best action scene, no arguing with that. However, the "nice, quiet" moments you dislike are part of what I liked about the film. It has more of a late-70s feel, like the original Donner film, than the bombastic action of the 90s/00s.

I wouldn't expect it to have exactly the same balance as X2. X-Men to me is a much more militaristic concept, while Superman is much more utopian.

To me Singer didn't hit the right balance, and while this film is still good, it's no where near perfect.
Well, no - no film is perfect!

I think that for the movie to be perfect, the script had to be completely scrapped and restarted from scratch.
Given the dire scripts of other blockbusters this year, such as X3, I thought Superman's was a breath of fresh air - albeit slightly overlong.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jul 2006, 10:07am

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Sollthar

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I imagine people will still be talking about Superman Returns decades to come, while the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels will have been left on the same pile as the Matrix sequels.
Hehe, would you take a bet on that? Seriously? smile

At the moment, Pirates 2 is beating the crap out of Superman Returns, both in box office (by faaaaaar!) and many user based review polls I've read (and it also bounced the first pirates movie back to 2nd place in DVD charts).
Obviously, the critics are disagreeing with the public, but they always do. wink

I predict the exact same thing will happen to the Superman returns sequel if it actually competes against PotC 3 and state the oposite; while Superman returns will maybe remain an interesting movie in the superhero franchise and will obviously be loved by fanboys all over, it's Pirates of the caribbean that will still be known and talked about in 10 years, more like the Indian Jones trilogy then Matrix.


I haven't seen either movie yet, so my opinion is merely based on statistics, not on my personal preference.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jul 2006, 10:18am

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Simon K Jones

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Sollthar wrote:

I imagine people will still be talking about Superman Returns decades to come, while the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels will have been left on the same pile as the Matrix sequels.
Hehe, would you take a bet on that? Seriously? smile
That was a bit of a silly comment, especially seeing as how I haven't seen Pirates2 yet. smile

At the moment, Pirates 2 is beating the crap out of Superman Returns, both in box office (by faaaaaar!) and many user based review polls I've read (and it also bounced the first pirates movie back to 2nd place in DVD charts).
Obviously, the critics are disagreeing with the public, but they always do. wink
High box office doesn't always mean that the public are loving it, though. The Matrix sequels also did massive, massive business, as I recall - especially Reloaded, before everyone realise they were a bit pap. Those sequels were succeeding of the well-earned reputation of the first movie, much like Pirates2.

General response I've seen on FXhome.com and other communities/reviews/etc seems to be disappointment, with people finding the sequel nothing like as good as Pirates1.

That general sense of disappointment, even from big PotC fans, is why I haven't bothered seeing Pirates2 just yet - if even the fans aren't sure, then I doubt I'll enjoy it much. unsure

it's Pirates of the caribbean that will still be known and talked about in 10 years, more like the Indian Jones trilogy then Matrix.
I guess it all hangs on part 3. If the story has a good ending, it'll be remembered. If they mess it up, it'll be forgotten quickly. Fingers crossed they'll get it right.

With PotC, I'm not even sure if the trilogy-big-story approach is the right one. I think I'd far rather have seen 'continuing adventures' of the characters, in unrelated stories - more like the Indiana Jones films, in some ways. Trying to give it a big, important over-arching storyline seems to go against the sense of simple, pure fun that I expect a pirate movie to be.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jul 2006, 10:31am

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Sollthar

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High box office doesn't always mean that the public are loving it, though.
Yeah, totally agreed. What high box office means is that a lot of people are willing to see it.

General response I've seen on FXhome.com and other communities/reviews/etc seems to be disappointment, with people finding the sequel nothing like as good as Pirates1.
I think the main problem is, that the "public" has no voice except for the box office.
People posting on fxhome, imdb or anywhere else in the internet hardly represent the "public", since I'd say about 70 to 80% of moviegoers wouldn't even think of posting about it in the internet.
Every internet community has a certain demographic attracted by it which looks at movies a certain way.

Same as most filmfreaks really like Army of Darkness. But if you ask 100 random people from the street, you can be happy if even 1 knows what you're talking about. smile

I expect the "publics" opinion of PotC2 will be shown by the box office of part 3 mostly...

That general sense of disappointment, even from big PotC fans, is why I haven't bothered seeing Pirates2 just yet
I'm prepared for being disappointed myself. Not because I expect PotC2 to be a bad film, not a bit, but because PotC is one of my favorite movies of all time and it's just almost impossible not to be disappointed (The "Terminator 3" or "X Men 3" effect)
Posted: Sun, 16th Jul 2006, 10:03pm

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Harvey

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Maybe I'm just biased against Superman or biased for PotC or maybe I have no taste in movies but I really liked PotC 2 a lot more than I liked Superman Returns. Then again, maybe I just need to see each of them again and get the first impressions out of my head.

PotC will probably do better at the box office but if PotC 3 is not amazing, then the new Superman franchise will probably be more remembered than the PotC films.

Tarn wrote:

With PotC, I'm not even sure if the trilogy-big-story approach is the right one. I think I'd far rather have seen 'continuing adventures' of the characters, in unrelated stories - more like the Indiana Jones films, in some ways. Trying to give it a big, important over-arching storyline seems to go against the sense of simple, pure fun that I expect a pirate movie to be.
I would definitely agree with that although I think PotC and PotC 2 stand alone as different films with different storylines just fine. The Curse of the Black Pearl is not really the start of a trilogy whereas Dead Man's Chest is the first half of a story and PotC 3 will be the conclusion to that story.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Aug 2006, 4:20pm

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Sollthar

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I'm late, I know. But superman has only just started his theatrical run here in switzerland last week. And I went to see it.

It was exactly as I imagined it to be, both in good and bad ways. First of all, Singer is indeed an excellent storyteller and a brilliant character director. As expected, he focuses on the characters, their struggles and inner conflicts more as on action and wowing his audience with visual gimmicks.
The pacing of the film is slow, yes. Which is what I liked about it. In a time where movies seem to throw everything at you in the shortest amount of time I like films that take their time.

The score was amazing - captured the spirit brilliantly, excellently used and leaves nothing to be desired. When the theme started, i felt like back when I was 12 or so and really enjoyed Superman films.

There were fun little homages to the first film with the design of the titles and the last shot of the film, that is an almost exact replica of the one with Reeve. Brilliant.

The acting was very good. Kevin Spacey loved his role and amusingly overacted Lex Luthor to keep us all entertained and laughing - in a good way. Brandon Routh was also good doing the best he could with what he had.

The cinamtography was beautiful, the effects were very solid and well done. A very excellently crafted film in every aspect.


Now, why did it still not work for me even though everyone did a good job? Why did it still not impress me and why does it still fails to be a "more then once" movie I'll probably not watch again and leaving no impact on my "best movies of the year" list by far?


Because especially since everyone was so talented and did such a great job, the same problems that always bothered me in Superman were painfully obvious: Superman has nothing to him. Singer tried everything to make him more then a simply stereotypical "I can do everything" hero, gave him an inner conflict, a love issue, a moral issue, hell, almost killed him and even gave him a son - but all that just showed: Nothing works. In the end, he's nothing more then a "Superman", painfully boring and with innter struggles and I never believed anything I saw about him to have any impact.

Then Supermans powers remain a mystery to me. Sometimes he can fly faster then lightspeed, then he has problems catching a plane or barely arrives at the right time. He can hear EVERYTHING, but still falls for a simple diversion he should have heard being planned in the first place. His powers feel utterly random to me and I'm never quite clear what he actually can do and what he can't do. It seems like his limits are always those that would make the scene interesting (if he hears everything, he would have heard Luthor talking to Louis or anyone else about his crystals, no? Or he could simply blow a huge laserbeam into anything Luthor does?)

Supermans weakness is an even greater mystery to me. Sometimes, being around cryptonite almost kills him, then he lands on a chunk of it and doesn't even notice anything. it completely drains his powers. Then he gets stabbed with a huge chunk of it, and still survives as soon as you take it out. Then he is surround by huge green cryptonie crystals again, the same crystals that made him so weak before, and yet he remains powerful enough to throw them into space. Then he falls down, from space, and still survives the fall and everything, as if his powers all remain as they are.

Then there's Lex Luthor, an obviously brilliant man... who surrounds himself with idiots and traitors; like Pinky and Brain, and doesn't even kill them, even though he can't care less about the death of billions. And that makes Lex Luthor... well... shallow and a typical kiddo-villain.

Aan at the end of the day, we have Superman again. Who happens to wear his superman outfit all day, just in case, leaves his Clark Kent clothes in an elevator (one might think sooner or later, someone might wonder about that) and puts on some glasses and suddenly no one recognises him anymore. Sorry, I this is as "bending" as it can be to reality and is across the line to what I'm willing to accept as an audience member.

And there's several other moments I had to laugh a bit. Seeing those crystals react so utterly amazingly strong to water, would you carry them losely on a ship? What if a drop lands on them? You'd have a big chunk of BLERGH on you in no time...
Then Superman is cared for, then randomly flies out of the window without even saying anything?
Or my favorite part, where Luthor shows Lois those maps and his chick (forgot her name) acts as if she's never seen them before. I just wonder, how did they get there? Someone might has had to install them, yes? What for? So he can keep them, just in case he has a hostage and can dramatically support his "that's my plan" speech?



Well, I'll stop, allthough I could go on and on.

In the end, Superman is an exceptionally well made film with huge of talent involved. And it still fails because Superman is utterly no interesting character to me and has glaring plotholes I can't ignore for some reason. Sure, every superhero film bends reality, but there' something about the whole Superman atmosphere which makes me just inwilling to buy into it. I keep at an enourmous distance watching it all with utter unbelief, unable to dive into it.

Which leaves me a bit depressed Singer left X Men, since the X Men have sooooo much to work with for him, especially character wise. And as amusingly good Kevin Spacey was, I prefer an Ian McKellen Magneto or a Johnny Depp Jack Sparrow any day.


So unfortunately, Superman Returns ist indeed what the titles suggests... It's just superman, and he returns.