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Is this real?! (Sony ad)

Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:31am

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Fill

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Look at this!
So the're into racism now?

That's it man.. Good Bye Sony

Sound Forge 8 meet my little friend EBAY.

This is sick stun

EDIT:

here's another one
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:43am

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Aculag

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It's not racism, it's just using the two people to represent the two colors of the PSP. Why do people need to get offended at f*cking everything these days?

Sony are not racists for making this ad. People need to grow up and get over it. And while they're at it, they need to get over this silly silly fear of offending people and being politically correct. None of it matters.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:46am

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Fill

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Oh trust me I hate "politicaly correct" but that's just creossing the line.

I'm glad that's in the UK because Sony would be out of business if it were in the states

even more here...

Last edited Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:48am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:47am

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zguy95135

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Why do people always try to make something out of nothing, its not racist. Jeez. If it showed a member of the KKK with a noose and burning cross, that would be racist. People need to lighten up and stop trying so hard to be politically correct.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:49am

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Fill

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Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:52am

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zguy95135

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Well I'm Mexican. As a minority I'm not offended, but they could have made the "caucasian woman" less menacing looking I guess.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 3:04am

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DigiSm89

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Artists use "black" to darken up colors and paintings and use "whites" to lighten them up.

You don't find artists in general racist for using contrasting colors in artwork for their contrasting effects?


Sorry to make that blatant, but you can classify many things as racist.

I'm Asian, and pencils are yellow. What...did they think that we are tools? Easy to write with, you can place lead on our bottoms and we'll still serve our masters? wink

My point? You can come up with reasons why everything in the world is racist, but you'll never get anywhere with those thoughts.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 3:16am

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Fill

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Yes I know that but it just really suprised me that a big company would advertise things like that.

If I were really like the idiots out there I would say "Why does everything Apple makes have to be white? Why didn't they make a black iMac!"

Last edited Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 8:56pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 3:54am

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CX3

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Rating: +2

Cuz we all know how long the white woman has been opressin the black woman...


SWG, im black too but I'm not trippin.. Its an add.. a lil weird one but i'll be damned if it means I'm not gettin any more sony products...

Why didn't they make a white iMac!"
I'm talking to you right now on my white iMac... ha
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:38am

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Aculag

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SWG wrote:

I'm glad that's in the UK because Sony would be out of business if it were in the states

even more here...
Sony is one of the largest and most successful companies in the world. They wouldn't go out of business because some people throw a fit over an ad that is NOT racist. They would simply have the ad removed, and make an apology, if that.

And I don't see what's so upsetting about any of the ads in that link you posted.

SWG wrote:

I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
This is exactly what's wrong with people. It is an advertisement. No one at all should be mad. Most people in the world nowadays seem to be LOOKING for reasons to be mad at something. So no, you shouldn't be mad.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:46am

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Serpent

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Not racist at all, black is black, white is white and they should be able to represent it figuritively in an ad. But, to me, it's a weird ad: obviously the black person in black clothes represents the black PSP and white in white for the new white (awesome looking) PSP. But why say it's taking over, that's what the ad gave me. I don't think it's completely replacing it. Racist? No. Weird advertising? Yeah.

Also: Aculag - why'd you ditch your name?
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 5:22am

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A Pickle

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So uh... chess is racist too, apparently. White goes first.

I mean seriously, people. I usually take any excuse to slam Sony, but this is retarded. If anything, it's a clever play on political correctness -- and these ads have drawn attention like this from forum boards other than this one, no?

Effective ad, I'd say.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 7:15am

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Waser

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Just reporting in:

My black friend doesn't care.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 8:15am

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Arktic

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I'd also like to add that I don't think it's racist at all. You're entitled to your own opinions, but I think you're being oversensitive here.

And about those adverts that weren't banned in the UK? Sony recieved 45 complaints... I'd hardly say that was a 'barrage' as that report suggests crazy
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 8:23am

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +2

One thing's for sure: it's a very strange advert.

For starters, why does the woman look like a reject villain from the 1980s He-Man: Masters of the Universe live action movie?

The advert clearly isn't intended to be racist, as that would be a hugely stupid move on Sony's part that they simply couldn't get away with.

However, the structure of the ad with a large, prominent white woman being clearly aggressive to the black guy and the 'White is coming' tagline is inevitably going to ruffle a few feathers. The contextual implications of the white woman subjugating the black man is somewhat disturbing, I would agree - intentional or not.

Stuff like this is all about how you can read into it. The problem with this particular advert is that it's so close to being dubious. Take away the PSP picture and replace 'Playstation portable' at the top with 'BNP' and you've got a brilliant campaign poster for them.

If not racist, it's certainly ill-conceived, naive and rather odd. At best, it's going to confuse people with its bizarrely vague message. At worst, it's going to offend people, like it did SWG.

Personally, I'm just utterly befuddled by it.

Last edited Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:03am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 8:32am

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Joshua Davies

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This kinda image has been done in fashion ads since the 80s. Doesn't seem racist to me really unless you add lots of meaning to it. It does appear to be a very VERY random way to advertise PSP.

That woman is beyond white, she is albino... Not sure why anyone would want a white PSP anyway? It looks so much better in black.

I'll be interested to see what other advertising images Sony uses in this campaign - I hope some are a bit more relevant.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:02am

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Arktic

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I agree - it's strange, and I suppose it does have the potential to be read as offensive, but I think that's people putting meaning to it, rather than drawing meaning from it...

I wonder, would anyone have seen it as racist if, say, Apple did the exact opposite? Had a white person being held down by a black person with the tagline "The Black iPod is Coming"?

EDIT - it's strange, yes, but as someone's already said, it's bound to get people talking. Maybe it was a very shrewd move on behalf of Sony's marketing dept?
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:09am

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Simon K Jones

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Arktic wrote:

I agree - it's strange, and I suppose it does have the potential to be read as offensive, but I think that's people putting meaning to it, rather than drawing meaning from it...
Definitely. But that's inevitable with anything like this - people bring their own experiences and knowledge to it, and combine that with whatever the advert designers were intending. The result is something else entirely, which is where advertising has to be careful - make it too loose and people can come away with completely the wrong impression, as would seem to be the case here.

I wonder, would anyone have seen it as racist if, say, Apple did the exact opposite? Had a white person being held down by a black person with the tagline "The Black iPod is Coming"?
It would create a different message, but would probably be similarly strange/potentially disturbing/confusing.

However, there's a crucial difference in your tagline - you specify it's a black iPod. The PSP advert is interesting because it specifically says 'White is coming', leaving it very open to interpretation (yes, I know it says 'Playstation Portable' right above it, but it's still separated somewhat).

Just showed it to my girlfriend, who is black, and she was rather shocked by it. However, she agreed that it almost certainly wasn't deliberately prejudiced - it's more that the advert's creators are rather naive and didn't think about the advert's potential interpretation outside of their comfy Sony design studio.

The other option is that they knew full well how it could be (mis)interpreted, and designed it specifically with that in mind, which would seem to be a very cynical way of creating word-of-mouth about your product. Creating controversy for controversy's sake always seems rather lame to me - although I can't deny it's a very powerful marketing tactic.

As schwar points out, this kind of juxtaposition has been used in fashion photography for ages. The difference is the context here, specifically with the ill-conceived 'White is coming' tagline. From an artist or fashion photographer it would be one thing: from a respected international company it's not quite what you expect.

It's the ease with which it could be deliberately misinterpreted by people with unsavoury motives that worries me. There aren't many adverts that could be so easily adapted into discriminatory propaganda!
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:22am

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Joshua Davies

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I highly doubt the creators are at all naive about this image. I'm pretty sure they know more about what impact it will have and how that will boost sales than any of us.

Sony are one of the big players when it comes to advertising - this image (and the others which probably go with it) would have been tested with hundreds if not thousands of people.

Sony would have know about the negative reaction this image would have had but maybe within the context of the rest of the adverts its less controversial.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:57am

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CX3

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Just reporting in:

My black friend doesn't care.
Heh, thanks Waser. Back to you Bob.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 11:34am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Remember, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Look at all the people and news outlets provided in the links SWG posted... People obviously know many things because of what's going on:

1. There's a new PSP.
2. It's white.
3. It's taking people by storm.
4. It's controversial.


Sony has done their job perfectly.

People are going to talk. Now they've got something to talk about.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 11:55am

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SyroVision

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In my opinion its a very edgie and dareing campain, they'd be fools to think that people wouldent kick up a fuss, but by doing so it just promotes the PSP further.

Sony is primeraly not a "westen" or "white" company, i dont think they are to scared.

Sorry if im slow, but i still dont fully understnad "Your Girlfreinds White Bits Here"... i mean, if it said "pink bits" id be a little flusterd but... white bits?

Mod note: Please use the 'edit' button rather than double-posting.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 2:49pm

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TimmyD

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CX3 wrote:

Why didn't they make a white iMac!"
I'm talking to you right now on my white iMac... ha
Hehe, me too!
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 3:44pm

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TommyB

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SWG wrote:

Look at this!
So the're into racism now?

That's it man.. Good Bye Sony

Sound Forge 8 meet my little friend EBAY.

This is sick stun

EDIT:

here's another one
You're being far too PC. There is nothing racist about that advert and it certainly isn't sick. How can the fact that a gadget is white be compared to skin colour? It's absolutely pathetic, it's like having a go at Tesco for advertising white bread but not black bread!? In my view, there is no room for PC in this country, but Labour really are turning us into a bunch of freaks.

PC advocators are feeble and pathetic. You have to learn to ignore things in life. Getting “offended” and upset is infantile and not an option.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:34pm

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Simon K Jones

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TommyB wrote:

You're being far too PC. There is nothing racist about that advert and it certainly isn't sick.
As with many things, it's about an individual's personal interpretation. The advert is not inherently racist, and it certainly isn't 'sick'. However, its design does clearly leave it open to a racially-themed reading, which is where the controversy lies.

How can the fact that a gadget is white be compared to skin colour?
Well, for starters, that's exactly what Sony have done by putting a white person and a black person on the advert. That's precisely what this debate is about!

It's absolutely pathetic, it's like having a go at Tesco for advertising white bread but not black bread!?
I've never had black bread myself (unless I've left it in the toaster a bit too long).

The issue here isn't about advertising black and white PSPs. It's about using a black person and a white person to advertise the product. More specifically, it's about the depiction of a white person seemingly subjugating a black person. How that is interpreted will depend on each individual person, but Sony are clearly shooting for some kind of skin colour-oriented reaction, and it is very different to simply displaying a black PSP and a white PSP (or a white loaf of bread and a brown loaf of bread).

A better comparison would be if a bread producing company was to introduce wholemeal brown bread, having only ever made white bread in the past. If they had a white person being subjugated by a black person, it would probably raise a few eyebrows (mostly confused eyebrows, as with this PSP ad). If they were to include the phrase 'Brown is coming', it'd raise a few more eyebrows. If they were to use the tagline "Tastier and more nutritious" (as wholemeal bread is known to be) then even more eyebrows would go up. As you can see, it's all about context.

Whether any of this is racist or not is another matter entirely, though. Even just in this thread, people of similar and varying ethnic backgrounds have disagreed on whether the PSP advert is racist, despite everyone viewing the same image. Which just goes to show what a complex and vague issue it really is.

In my view, there is no room for PC in this country, but Labour really are turning us into a bunch of freaks.
Political correctness started long before Labour got into power.

PC advocators are feeble and pathetic. You have to learn to ignore things in life. Getting “offended” and upset is infantile and not an option.
That's far too general a statement to make much sense. Where do you draw the line? If someone came up to you in the street and punched you in the face, should you just ignore it? Would getting upset be infantile?

While I agree that political correctness is politeness taken to a ludicrous level, I would argue that what you are suggesting is simply the opposite end of the same thing. They're both extreme attitudes, and neither are particularly useful.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:46pm

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TommyB

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I wouldn't say it's an extremist view.

"politically correct" is defined as:
1. Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.
2. Being or perceived as being overconcerned with such change, often to the exclusion of other matters.
"redress historical injustices"

That's what bugs me. Banning hot crossed buns at a school just because of one Muslim kid complaining.

I just don't see how people can get offended so easily. It's feeble and infantile. I'd only get offended if there was something like a "BLACKS only car-insurance company" or something along those lines.

Last edited Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:52pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:50pm

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Magic_man12

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in that case.......

SONY has been racist for YEARS!!!! my original PS2 is BLACK!!!! WHERE IS THE WHITE PS2?!?!?!?! THATS DISCRIMINATING WHITE FROM THE COLOUR OF THE PLASTIC ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE MACHINE

OMG!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Those Jerks!!


i think the message everyone is sending is...seeeeetttlle doownn... p2p was black in the first place - so should I have been pissed about that? no...... now they are coming out with a white one.. so why the *expliced deleted* are you?

-MAGIC
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:57pm

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Serpent

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Magic_man and others: this is not like saying they only had a black PS2 or a white PS1 whatever. In this ad it's being compared specifically to skin colour and people are taking it as racist. It's not, but that certainly is not a way to prove your point.

My 2¢.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 4:58pm

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Joshua Davies

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Its all about balance... I think Apple have got it right!

The black MacBook is way cooler than the white one while the black iPod is endorsed by U2...

*schwar hopes he isn't the only one who thinks U2 are totally uncool *
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 5:43pm

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Fill

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Well said Tarn. Weather you think this is racist or not doesn't it seem odd that Sony would post something like that? Take a look at the other ads. They are just weird.

I can do one thing though, apoligize for overreacting to the ad. I can tell that they aren't trying to intend it but it just looks demeaning. I'm not being one of those people who tries to find something to point out racism but everytime I take a look at it I get an uneasy feeling in my stomach.

And for the love of God people when I said something about the white iMac that was SARCASM.

I could care less if I have a white or black iPod. And you know what? I think the black iMac would look that cool! It looks fine white. It's not the product its the way they represent it.

Oh and by the way.. PC is probably the biggest load of horse sh*t I've ever seen. Well atleast when it's over used. Like those idiots in California who made it so you have to write a purple 'F' on the paper so you would feel so bad when you failed the test. That's what PC does in America.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 7:15pm

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CX3

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And for the love of God people when I said something about the white iMac that was SARCASM.
No, that was "typo". wink
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 7:17pm

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Waser

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Don't worry Schwar. You aren't alone.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 8:35pm

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Arktic

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In my view, there is no room for PC in this country, but Labour really are turning us into a bunch of freaks
Are you a cab driver, by any chance? Or just planning a career as a journo for the Daily (Fascist) Mail?

razz
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:45pm

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Kid

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SWG wrote:

Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
How is this at all racist? Should I be offended because there is a white person in the advert and I am white?

It gets boring people always calling up anything remotely to do with skin colour as racist rather than simply representing the diversity of life around us. Have you heard the story about the boy who cried wolf? Save the outrage for people who are actually being racist or otherwise people will stop taking notice of you.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:46pm

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Serpent

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GOD YES. Too good to be true:

Sony of Japan just trademarked the name: PooS.

Make fun off Wii all you want, you have PooS to control your system with.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 9:58pm

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Simon K Jones

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Kid wrote:

SWG wrote:

Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
How is this at all racist? Should I be offended because there is a white person in the advert and I am white?
You're side-stepping what's being portrayed (or arguably portrayed) in the photo, though. It's not just a black person and a white person standing next to each other. Nobody would have said a thing in that case.

Instead, it's specifically a white person holding down a black person - it's implied subjugation, or at least can be very easily interpreted that way. That's the source of this debate. If you totally ignore what's actually being depicted in the photo, then you miss the point of this discusion.
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 10:01pm

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Garrison

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A Pickle wrote:

So uh... chess is racist too, apparently. White goes first.
This quote reminded me of Martin Lawrence in Boomerang when he's playing pool.

He notes that the White Ball is dominant and puts all the other color balls in first. Then the object is to put the Black Ball in last because the white man fears Black *sexual reference*!

Reading a little too deep into something me thinks. Although clever advertising.

LOL!
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 10:03pm

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Aculag

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Tarn wrote:

Instead, it's specifically a white person holding down a black person - it's implied subjugation, or at least can be very easily interpreted that way.
I wonder how people would have reacted if it was a white PSP holding down a black PSP.

HARDWARE RACISM OMG
Posted: Wed, 5th Jul 2006, 10:06pm

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Kid

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Tarn wrote:

Kid wrote:

SWG wrote:

Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
How is this at all racist? Should I be offended because there is a white person in the advert and I am white?
You're side-stepping what's being portrayed (or arguably portrayed) in the photo, though. It's not just a black person and a white person standing next to each other. Nobody would have said a thing in that case.

Instead, it's specifically a white person holding down a black person - it's implied subjugation, or at least can be very easily interpreted that way. That's the source of this debate. If you totally ignore what's actually being depicted in the photo, then you miss the point of this discusion.
Ah but does the fact that that doesnt jump out at me mean that people making this assumption are more rascist than I am?

Surely its just some crazy 80s woman dominating a man and the colour of their skin is incidental to what they are doing? If the black PSP was out second then it would be the other way round and would be a black woman dominating a white guy. I'm sure more people would think that was sexy and fewer would see it as racist.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 12:07am

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Atom

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God. White. Black. They're colors, not people. White ball goes first in pool, white chess goes first, all it is is a color. Seeing superiority or ethnic control in it is just ignorant and stupid. Mainly stupid.

Swg, you are acting incredibly idiotic reading all that into it. Sony has weird ads, that's their thing. I think they're pretty cool.


It's taking literal things and puting a creative spin on it.

You don't see me saying "Ooooh! The white hand is scissors and the black hand is rock!! Ooooh! Rock is black, and it's beating white!!!!!" Why? Because it's a stupid thing to say.

Not buying Sony products because of that is just plain arogant. PSP, Vegas, Movies, TVs, Sony is truly the standard of "the best", whether or not they try and capitalize on it.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 12:34am

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er-no

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In the UK that advert would not have been allowed.

It is a very strange advert as its open connotation is exactly what we have all picked up. It might not be the intended reading, but of course.. thats the point.

Not as good as the UK Frosties cereal advert......
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 1:10am

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Arktic

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Just for interest, here's another photo that's apparently from the same advertising campaign:

Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 2:10am

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Fill

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Woah I've never seen that.. So this is just even more creepy. That's also messed up man.

Atom, and all you other people saying white beating black is what I'm mad about then you haven't read my posts. I'm saying that implying a white person "holding down" a black person is just wrong. I could care less if they showed a white psp with a black psp and the white one beats the black one. I really really don't care about the color. I care about the racial message sent by showing two races demeaning eachother. I could care less about hardware or objects and how they work or what color they are.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 2:18am

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Hybrid-Halo

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So is a chinese person holding a black person down ok?
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 2:22am

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Fill

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

So is a chinese person holding a black person down ok?
Anybody putting down another race is wrong.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 2:31am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +1

SWG wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

So is a chinese person holding a black person down ok?
Any race putting down another race is wrong.
I was hoping you'd say that, you see - in these pictures the models aren't portraying races and rather colours of a product. The colour of the models skin just happens to suit that, I'm sure if a silver skinned race existed as did a silver PSP then they'd have incorporated them into the campaign.

Is it really demeaning at all to represent a battle for dominance between individuals regardless of their race or is it just in some way representative of the human struggle for dominance? It is to most extents understandable that racial undertones may be read into them initially, though I can't see why they'd possibly remain after examining the adverts.

I think this is pretty intelligent shock advertising by Sony if you ask me. A shock first look providing a desire for investigation which concludes in a direct link to their product.

On another note - I'm really disliking the use of "us" and "them", as surely seperating people simply making assumptions on their beliefs because of their race is rascist in itself? We are all human beings and WE all live on the same planet you know... I was of the impression that race is only ever an issue to those who are either stuck in the past or rascist themselves - to everyone else aren't we all just human? What we really need is an alien invasion that will spur mankind into uniting.

... then schwar can finally make his speech!
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:11am

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Fill

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I never thought of it that way. I'm pretty close to saying that I've been proved wrong.

It still is sorta iffy but I guess I'll let it pass. As for the other offensive ads I don't know what to say. Whatever Sony wants to advertise they can and there's nothing complaining could possibly do to stop it.

Just close the topic and forget about it confused
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:19am

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Aculag

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

I was hoping you'd say that, you see - in these pictures the models aren't portraying races and rather colours of a product.
Weird, this is almost exactly what I said in the second post in this thread. smile
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 5:51am

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A Pickle

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John Travoltas Ghost wrote:

Weird, this is almost exactly what I said in the second post in this thread. smile
Well then. Have a beer.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 11:12am

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Xcession

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Frankly i'm relieved that Sony is grabbing the bull(sh*t) by the horns and tackling unnecessary political correctness head on in this way.

Sony are leading the herd by using risky race-related metaphors in a way which we all know isn't meant to be racist and by implication (a kind of double-bluff, if you will), shouldn't be considered so either!

Level-headed viewers will realised that sony couldn't possibly be advocating black oppression, so you're forced to accept that the footage of a white person fighting a black person is not racism - its just fighting!

The advert doesn't depict white humans oppressing blacks humans - it depicts an arbitrary colour fighting an arbitrary colour and you should be enterpretting it no different to if the other console was, i dunno, green.

Obviously this is a rather risky strategy since not everyone is logical or level-headed, but i applaud them for running this campaign all the same.

I think we can all agree that being PC for the sake of it is selfish and dilutes worthy struggles by genuine minorities. The same goes for oversensitivity: It may be someone's "opinion" and they have every right to feel that way but that doesn't make them right! Its counter-productive to society as a whole and just plain insulting to people suffering real oppression.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 2:26pm

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Aculag

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A Pickle wrote:

Well then. Have a beer.
Soitanly! Nyuck nyuck nyuck!
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:08pm

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CX3

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I'm not racist or anything but i think down to the core of this that this is all a ploy by asians to create another civil war here in the states and while that is happening they can take over us and the world. Then the release of the yellow ps2 will be soon to come.

Thats just were I'm comin from.. agreed to disagree if u will...
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:31pm

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Simon K Jones

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Xcession wrote:

Level-headed viewers will realised that sony couldn't possibly be advocating black oppression, so you're forced to accept that the footage of a white person fighting a black person is not racism - its just fighting!
(snippet)
Obviously this is a rather risky strategy since not everyone is logical or level-headed, but i applaud them for running this campaign all the same.
You're working on the assumption that anybody that finds the image disturbing - whether in a minor or major way - is an illogical, slightly unhinged simpleton, which isn't really the case.

The issue with this kind of thing isn't simply the intention of the image, from the creators' point of view. It also depends upon the context that the viewer brings.

To you, the image doesn't appear racist, and thinking logically you can presume that it isn't intended to be either. Sony simply wouldn't do that, right?

But what about, for instance, somebody that has suffered prolonged and serious racial abuse. If they were to see the exact same advert, they could pull a very, very different message from it, and find it offensive and/or upsetting. From that point of view, they could quite easily consider the advert to be racist to a degree. Are they wrong?

Of course, that opens a can of worms, really. On the one hand, it means just about anything can be considered racist if a person wishes to consider it so.

But the alternative that you describe is the direct opposite - that as long as the creators "couldn't possibly be advocating black oppression", that they are not. By that rationale, any potentially prejudicial images/comments/etc could be excused simply by the creator saying "no it isn't." Thinking about it, that's pretty much how the BNP function.

I guess it depends if you value the intention behind the source or the viewer's interpretation of the source. With this kind of thing, I'd say it's always going to be a communication between the two, and to ignore the 'viewer' part of that communication and only acknowledge the creator's intention is a little idealistic and divorced from reality.

With images such as these, clearly designed to provoke a emotional reaction of some sort, you can't really criticise people for not analysing them in a 'logical and level headed' manner. To only approach such material in a cold, detached, objective, logical, level-headed manner is to entirely miss the point, if you ask me. Which you didn't. smile

Then again, I'm not entirely sure that any of the above makes any sense.

Last edited Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:45pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:38pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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SWG wrote:

I never thought of it that way. I'm pretty close to saying that I've been proved wrong.

It still is sorta iffy but I guess I'll let it pass. As for the other offensive ads I don't know what to say. Whatever Sony wants to advertise they can and there's nothing complaining could possibly do to stop it.

Just close the topic and forget about it confused
It's always a good thing to state how you feel or voice your position especially in friendly communities like these SWG, I hope you don't feel shut out on this matter.

If the advert was say, genuinely rascist either intentionally or as a result of naievity then there's plenty people could do to stop it - advertising is pretty strictly monitored. I wouldn't be surprised if these Sony adverts end up being pulled as I've seen much less offensive adverts removed due to complaints (normally sex oriented ones adverts whinged about by religious groups/mary whitehouse).

It's definitely a racey subject, and for that reason I'd have to agree with Xcession that Sony should be commended for it.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:48pm

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Xcession

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Are they wrong?
...snip...
Of course, that opens a can of worms, really. On the one hand, it means just about anything can be considered racist if a person wishes to consider it so.
Are they wrong to presume that a random advert, clearly aimed at a totally different subject matter but possibly not written particularly tactfully, by a company who has no knowledge of their existence, is a directed attack on their very being? Hell yes! Thats plain moronic! Its applying those kind of gross overgeneralisations that causes discrimination in the first place!

The fact they've withstood prolonged racial abuse is just deeply unfortunate, but to monopolise on that situation by flexing their 'views' (whether right or dumb) can be extremely destructive: hence the purveyance of Compensation Culture in modern society (Another topic i could rant for pages on).

We should never forget the injustices of the past, but its counter-product in the extreme, to use every possible opportunity, no matter how irrelevant or tangential, to climb on a high horse and start stamping people with "racist" just because of previous history.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 3:59pm

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Simon K Jones

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Are they wrong to presume that a random advert, clearly aimed at a totally different subject matter but possibly not written particularly tactfully, by a company who has no knowledge of their existence, is a directed attack on their very being? Hell yes! Thats plain moronic!
The problem is that with a giant street advert, there's no way of avoiding it. If somebody is particularly sensitive to an issue (race, sex, religion, gender, child abuse, etc), then sensibly they'd avoid stuff that might offend them - that's their responsibility. Hence religious people rarely have a solid argument base when complaining about something like the Jerry Springer stageshow (simply don't see it!). With something in plain public view like this advert, it's going to be seen be all kinds of people, you're not targeting a specific audience at all, and that ought to be considered.


Xcession wrote:

The fact they've withstood prolonged racial abuse is just deeply unfortunate, but to monopolise on that situation by flexing their 'views' (whether right or dumb) can be extremely destructive
So only people that have led healthy, happy, undisturbed and pleasant lives are allowed to flex their views with impunity?

The point is that it's entirely possible to accidentally insult/offend. This doesn't mean that everyone should go around being careful of what they say - that's what leads to the political correctness that we all loathe.

However, you can't simply dismiss somebody if you accidentally insult/offend them - even if you don't need/want to apologise, it strikes me as very odd to simply invalidate their opinion/perspective.

Hence if the Sony advert accidentally insults/offends (clearly not its intention), it doesn't mean that those offended are automatically PC-waving, card-waving, cry-wolfites that should be utterly ignored.

hence the purveyance of Compensation Culture in modern society (Another topic i could rant for pages on).
Indeed. Blame culture is highly irritating.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 4:16pm

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Xcession

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However, you can't simply dismiss somebody if you accidentally insult/offend them - even if you don't need/want to apologise, it strikes me as very odd to simply invalidate their opinion/perspective.
I'm not trying to invalidate their personal sense of indignation (they're welcome to it) - i'm trying to invalidate those who manipulate their personal opinions into mindless tyranical campaigns which serve no benefit.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 4:23pm

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Simon K Jones

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Well, in that case I'd agree with you.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 4:24pm

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Sollthar

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Rating: +1

"Logic" has very little to do with how you read something xcession. Things are interpreted, and an interpretation is based on experience, or a simple feel. Often, people claim something to be logic, that doesn't mean it is.

If you've been hit in the face every time a bell rings, isn't it logic to assume, that once the bell rings, you'll get hit?
If you've experienced hatred and racism for several times, isn't it logic to assume this add does the same?
Several people here said sony clearly didn't intend to be racist, is that logic?

In fact, neither is.

What logic implies this image ISN'T racist? Do you know the person who came up with it personally? Know his or her views on life? His or her experience? Do you KNOW what the subtext of this image actually is?
I highly doubt it. Clearly, you could mistake a interpretation-deduction for logic - for example "It can't be racist, since Sony would lose business if they would offend their costumers. Every business wants money, so that can't be racist. That's logic.".
This isn't logic though, it's an assumption mistaken for a logic deduction.

Logic nor intelligence isn't going to help anyone here decide what this image actually meant to the person who created it.

The only thing we can do is interprete it the way we interprete things, based on our experiences and the so called "common sense".
Logic isn't part of this. And people getting to either solution can't be compared by basically saying "idiots will conclude A, smart people will conclude B". Both conclusions can be intelligent, both conclusions can be extraordinary silly and simpleminded.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 4:29pm

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Simon K Jones

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Well said, Sollthar! You summed up in one post what I've been scrabbling to say in all my ramblings in this thread!
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 4:58pm

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er-no

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Leave it to the Swiss to sort out our problems...
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 8:48pm

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Xcession

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Bloody bridges and clocks.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:11pm

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Xcession

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Logic nor intelligence isn't going to help anyone here decide what this image actually meant to the person who created it.
Theoretically we've no idea what the person who created it thought.

We can however make some informed decision based on what knowledge we do have. If a car is free-wheeling without a driver, down a hill, you know it'll hit something. You don't have to see it happen, you just know its inevitable.

The person who created that advert would, i think, have predicted that a racist advert would get him/her fired. It doesn't require cleverness, it doesn't require a complex personal quandry about ringing bells - its just obvious. Why would they have then deliberately created a risky advert?

In the same way that pavlov's dog understandibly concluded that it would get food, when so many employees getting fired for inappropriate comments/campaigns run by major companies ("accountability" and all that crap)......the employee who came up with this advert MUST (surely?), at some point have predicted he/she would get fired too if he/she did a similar campaign?

If they didn't, then...wow - this argument falls apart, but frankly i find it impossible to believe that so many layers of marketting, PR and management somehow didn't consider this. A national campaign isn't just down to one person.

I appreciate this is going off on a tangent, but i enjoy a bit of psychology.

Getting back to the topic at hand for a second (not for long though, i like this new direction), its these kinds of things that i consider before reacting to things. I wish more people did the same. I'm far from infallible though and i'm as susceptible to having a reactionary respons as the next person, but usually i like to over-think things to a stupid degree to avoid exactly this kind of situation.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:28pm

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Sollthar

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We can however make some informed decision based on what knowledge we do have.
That's what I meant with referring to "common sense", allthough that common sense and so called "informed decision" is only based on assumptions that seem logic to the person assuming, because they are logic in the way this person believe the world works.

If a car is free-wheeling without a driver, down a hill, you know it'll hit something.
Well, not necessarily. I assume it, because of what I have experienced myself or because of what I have seen in movies or been told etc. The car could also simply stop. It may seem unlikely to me too, but it's not impossible, so this deduction isn't completely "logic".
(The same way we all assume the sun will rise tomorrow, just because it always has - this is as well, only a deductive assumption though.)

The employee who came up with this advert MUST (surely?), at some point have predicted he/she would get fired too if he/she did a similar campaign?
That's an understandable assumption, but it could again be totally different. Maybe the person thought he/she would get away with it? Maybe he/she saw this as a cunning way to use Sony to portray his/her own racist feeling? Maybe he/she actually WANTED to get fired for whatever reason? Maybe he/she DID get fired? Maybe he/she didn't even think one second this could be seen as racist and thought nothing in that direction?
Of course, some assumptions seem more likely and are more understandable then others, they are all the same by logic standards though. None of them is something that logic "dictates", neither the conclusion of pavlovs dog.
There could have always been no food - each and every time, and no logic in the world would state otherwise.

but frankly i find it impossible to believe that so many layers of marketting, PR and management somehow didn't consider this
Neither do I think no one considered the possibility this ad could be interpreted in a non pleasant way. Maybe that's what they wanted? Maybe they will soon refer to it as a "mistake" and take the add off? Maybe they are reading our discussion right now and laughing their butts off because we all talk about a PSP add and do exactly what they wanted us to?

My point is just, you can't know. There's several possibilities coming to my mind as to what this add wants, doesn't want, how it got to be and what it will provoke... Some of these seem more likely, but none of them is purely logic.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:41pm

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Xcession

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Our discussion of this has now reduced the content of the advert to no more than factors in a wider picture, which I suppose is the...er..nub of my arguement....

We've debated the content to such a degree that, whether we believe it was deliberate or not, we can appreciate that this is unlikely to be a rash slice of abhorent, corporate-sized racism. We can also appreciate that it probably doesn't warrant a reactionary response for the same reasons - and because we don't know the answers.

Its these sort of internal, personal debates which make society function better, or conversely reduce us to ranting charlatans if we simply jump to conclusions about any advert which rubs us the wrong way.
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:43pm

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A Pickle

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They got free publicity. This thread is proof of that. People got riled up, and posted an angry thread about the ads being racist. This allowed Sony to force us basement-dwelling-computer-addicts to see the ad, as we never see the light of day, much less large, building size advertisements. biggrin

Seriously, though. As this ad descended through the various quagmire layers of corporate bureaucracy, they were aware of the "racist implications" of the image. It seems apparent to me that they probably evaluated that the public response to the ad would result in many more people gained than lost.

If someone was offended by the ad, I don't imagine they would stand a snowball's chance in a nuclear reactor with any sort of lawsuit, so their only way to really "make Sony pay" would be to not get a PSP. Big deal. Sony just lost one person, who felt inclined to post his errant ramblings about "racist connotations" in an online forum thread.

Through his actions (and many others like him), Sony has had their bit of free publicity across the internet. This thread spans five pages, and links to another thread, which links to a news post elsewhere about the same topic. Sony just got a load of free publicity from people who... frankly... whine too much. I'm usually quick to bash Sony, but this one was well-played. Anyone who takes advantage of political correctness deserves at least one pat on the back.

You shouldn't buy from Sony anyways. biggrin
Posted: Thu, 6th Jul 2006, 9:47pm

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Sollthar

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Our discussion of this has now reduced the content of the advert to no more than factors in a wider picture, which I suppose is the...er..nub of my arguement....
Yeah, I was agreeing with you... I think. smile
Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006, 10:11pm

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JoeyLawrence

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I love the advertisement.

It seems to be working. Well. wink
Posted: Sun, 30th Jul 2006, 6:29am

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ssj john

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Well thats lame....Mod*cough*

Geuss I have to say something relevent to the topic....
The Advert isn't racist.

You know what just always gets me.... If a white person says "you black people" everybody jumps on him like a lion. But black people say all the time "you white folks" I dunno I think thats hypocritical. It doesn't matter if we are the majority or not, its still racism...


MOD EDIT: Thank you for posting more on topic. However, I see you still can not abide by the restricted subject matter. I will refresh your memory this time. Political points of view are prohibited, especially if you can not voice them in an appropriate manner. I don't believe George Bush is relevant to this topic. Try to refrain from posting restricted subject matter, thank you.
Posted: Sun, 30th Jul 2006, 7:04am

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NuttyBanana

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Sick of hearing about this crap. There's nothing wrong with the advert and I read that there's a version with the black woman doing the same thing to the white PSP as though they're battling for supremecy which is what they are doing, very good advert infact if you ask me.


SWG wrote:

Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
As long as you talk like this and class yourself different, racism will always exist. Get over it.
Posted: Sun, 30th Jul 2006, 5:06pm

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Fill

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NuttyBanana wrote:

Sick of hearing about this crap. There's nothing wrong with the advert and I read that there's a version with the black woman doing the same thing to the white PSP as though they're battling for supremecy which is what they are doing, very good advert infact if you ask me.


SWG wrote:

Well maybe because I'm black? I mean if anyone should be angry it sure as hell should be us.
As long as you talk like this and class yourself different, racism will always exist. Get over it.
Get over the post. This is old.


Seriously if I could ever contact my past selves I would kill them all. I hate myself. smile

SWG wrote:

I can do one thing though, apoligize for overreacting to the ad. I can tell that they aren't trying to intend it but it just looks demeaning. I'm not being one of those people who tries to find something to point out racism but everytime I take a look at it I get an uneasy feeling in my stomach.
Nutty Banana did you even read this part of my posts?

Like I said, I would kill my past selves.

SWG wrote:

I saw the commercials and previews in the theaters...It doesn't even look funny...ITS GAY!

How much more retarted could Tim Burton get?

Oh yes he's a great director but he doesn't know how to use his imagination without making it zainy(weird...stupid) he is always coming out with these crappy ideas that really just FLOP in the theaters...

Waser I HIGHLY agree with you...I don't think its worthy to suck your ass...Not even but...but some one low enough....Bill Clinton!

ROFL
Especially that dumb ass. wink

Last edited Sun, 30th Jul 2006, 5:10pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 30th Jul 2006, 5:08pm

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Waser

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I'm glad to see that my ass can be brought to topic at even the most random times.