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Leopard sneek peek now on apple!

Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 9:13pm

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film freak

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http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Time machine looks awesome, and making your own widgets will be cool to. Discuss.

The new intel G5 replacement is also announced.
Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 9:41pm

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Pooky

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What I'm wondering is, where does it back up those huge amounts of data for Time Machine? Isn't the point of deleting to... well... get it off the hard drive?

Pretty much the lamest excuse for a new OS I've seen from Apple so far, TBH.
Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 10:21pm

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TimmyD

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Pooky wrote:

What I'm wondering is, where does it back up those huge amounts of data for Time Machine? Isn't the point of deleting to... well... get it off the hard drive?

Pretty much the lamest excuse for a new OS I've seen from Apple so far, TBH.
You need an external harddrive or server. It must be configurable so it doesn't take up mounds of space.

And shut up. What about the "top secret" features they couldn't show us? I'll admit that overall the keynote was boring, but hey, who cares. It was better than any MS conference.
Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 10:35pm

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Atom

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What is with this "at least it wasn't as boring as the _______conference."

I've heard this for many things including Sony, Microsoft, etc. and it seems to be the lamest excuse.

Apple's conference had a laser light show, so there's is better!What ever happened to listening to those kind of things for content? For innovation? People seem to get hung-up on the gimmicks nowadays, which is fine, as long as you weigh it with the functionality and practicality aspect of things.

On another note, Leopard looks to be just another reason to upgrade OSX. A small, gimmicky tool. Why not just offer Timemachine as an upgradable option for Tiger? Why sell a whole new version, if you're not going to build at least a little bit more on the predecessor?
Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 11:26pm

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er-no

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Heh, looks to be a brilliant upgrade.

But I'm holding out for my new MBP. Damnit Apple. Hurry up.
Posted: Tue, 8th Aug 2006, 11:53pm

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DigiSm89

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TimmyD wrote:

You need an external harddrive or server. It must be configurable so it doesn't take up mounds of space.
Still doesn't account for what if you want to actually delete the file.

I still don't understand the big hype around recovering old data files that were deleted. When you delete a file, you go through the process of selecting the file, consenting to some sort of file delete dialog, and finally permanently deleting the file after it has entered the trashbin/recycling bin (well at least on Windows this is the case, most likely the same on OS X too). Because of this long file deletion process, you almost never delete a file unintentionally. When a file is deleted on your machine, most likely you wanted it to be deleted, otherwise you wouldn't have gone through such a daunting process in the first place.

Now when a file is deleted unintentionally, let it be an accidental disk write or an accidental file rewrite, it's a totally different story.

An accidental disk write error...well, unless you have a lousy harddrive (I've even heard disk fragmentation can do this), you most likely wont run into this sort of problem. In fact, modern file systems are transactional, meaning that operations work in transactions (sort of like an ATM transaction), where the filesystem wont save the changes unless the operation is successful (like moving a file from one place to another). Say if your system accidentally shuts down, anything the OS was doing to a file wont exist partially when you restart the OS. It will exist as if nothing happened to the file at all.

An accidental file rewrite where you or an application might accidentally rewrite the contents of a file...well, that's not actually deleting a file afaik. That's more or less modifying the contents of the file. Most file manipulation/storage systems store file changes in these situations.

Furthermore, in most cases IT are usually competent enough to have dedicated backup solutions, like have 4 redundant drives in case one fails (typical of a RAID solution). The IT at my school employs a whole second server dedicated for redundancy and load balancing, so if one server fails or is acting slowly, the other will kick into high gear.


So, back to my original point, the ability to recover from accidental deletion isn't at all too special. To use this as a major selling point for an OS is a bit OTT. It's great that OS X now has this built in. It's great that the functionality is located in one central location and not spread out to enduce complexity into what should otherwise be a simple operation. But as one of the "neat features" of Leopard, it's not at all "ZOMG, WOW!!!1!!!1!two", just as how most of the glitter and gloss in Vista isn't anything more than "meh, we should have had this years ago".

Though, I did enjoy the star animation. I'm quite envious of that animation tbh. disgust


TimmyD wrote:

And shut up. What about the "top secret" features they couldn't show us?
No need to be rude. He was giving an opinion. I agree with his opinion, and so do others. Are you going to go tell us to shut up as well? Saying such a thing sounds more or less like a desperate plea for something magical to happen, with the childish undertone of "they'll come up with something cool real soon, just you wait!"

And in regards to these Top Secret Features, I will be expecting these to be at least 5x better than the features released during the keynote.

If they're not, well...poo. snooty
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 1:08am

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TimmyD

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Atom wrote:

Why sell a whole new version, if you're not going to build at least a little bit more on the predecessor?
I'm not sure what you're saying here.

EDIT: I suggest some of you look at this article about Time Machine: http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/firstlooks/leotimemac/index.php?lsrc=mwrss
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 2:04am

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Atom

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I'm saying, while it may be a nice and helpful feature, it still alone doesn't constitute a new OSX, at least not in my book. Why can't Apple offer these items as software that you can add to Tiger, or Jaguar for that matter? Why is it always just another new OSX?

I'm not angry, I think it's great they have Time Machine now, I'm just saying it all always seems abit pointless to me.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 2:17am

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er-no

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Atom wrote:

I'm saying, while it may be a nice and helpful feature, it still alone doesn't constitute a new OSX, at least not in my book. Why can't Apple offer these items as software that you can add to Tiger, or Jaguar for that matter? Why is it always just another new OSX?

I'm not angry, I think it's great they have Time Machine now, I'm just saying it all always seems abit pointless to me.
Well, it doesnt constitute a new OSX. Because thats what it is, and as with each new OSX there are very large changes as to how the OS runs and what options a user has. The latest is built for the new Intel systems and thus Apple probably couldn't offer a simple upgrade from the current OS.

Bring it on is what I say. I can't wait for my MacPro in January.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 2:21am

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TimmyD

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Atom wrote:

I'm saying, while it may be a nice and helpful feature, it still alone doesn't constitute a new OSX, at least not in my book. Why can't Apple offer these items as software that you can add to Tiger, or Jaguar for that matter? Why is it always just another new OSX?

I'm not angry, I think it's great they have Time Machine now, I'm just saying it all always seems abit pointless to me.
As er-no said, it doesn't constitute a new OS X. They made another OS X, and Time Machine is just something they added. It's not like they made Time Machine and said "Oh, we'd better make another version of OS X to handle this." You're forgetting about the thousands of tweaks, fixes, and changes under the hood, as well as a considerable many on the outer layer. There's so many little things Apple doesn't talk about... System Preferences, Preferences on the whole, GUI, you know, the stuff you look for in a new version.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 2:27am

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

I'm saying, while it may be a nice and helpful feature, it still alone doesn't constitute a new OSX, at least not in my book. Why can't Apple offer these items as software that you can add to Tiger, or Jaguar for that matter? Why is it always just another new OSX?

I'm not angry, I think it's great they have Time Machine now, I'm just saying it all always seems abit pointless to me.
Er, wait. I see what you mean kinda, but the new updates are 104 to 10.5 etc. It seems kind of soon. But, Jaguar? That is 3 OSX versions ago, hardly relative. Jaguar to Panther was a HUGE leap in features and stability. Maybe you could have said Panther, or addons to Tiger to make your point.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:11am

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A Pickle

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It frustrates me how Apple loves to make fun of Microsoft's inablity to innovate, and then claims that stuff like "Spaces" and iChatAV's "Remote Desktop" ability is new.

Bullcrap. Spaces has been in Linux for years now, and Apple ripped a new one off of Redmond, who apparently "can't innovate," because we've had Remote Desktop since Netmeeting in Windows 98, and in Windows Messenger which was integrated into XP. It has since always been in every subsequent version of MSN Messenger, and now Windows Live Messenger, which, apart from remote desktop, can also talk to another platform.

A fully 64-bit operating system? What about a 64-bit operating system that not only supports it's 32-bit predecessor, but also supports emulation of all previous variants of the OS? Windows XP 64-bit Edition. No, Microsoft, you can't innovate at all. Our Linux friends were the first out with a GUI operating system with 64-bit support.

Spotlight now supports boolean operands, something which Windows Desktop Search has supported since it's inception after Tiger. Of course, on a PC, you can also get Google Desktop Search or Yahoo! Desktop Search for free, and those support booleans too.

Microsoft's Windows Live Mail Beta supports adding photos to your email, in a similarly easy (and configurable) fashion.

Then, there's widgets... which... are widgets. Not only did Konfabulator have them first... they're useless.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:31am

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ssj john

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Atom wrote:

On another note, Leopard looks to be just another reason to upgrade OSX. A small, gimmicky tool. Why not just offer Timemachine as an upgradable option for Tiger? Why sell a whole new version, if you're not going to build at least a little bit more on the predecessor?
They are turning into microsoft. Windows 2000 and xp very very similar...
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 11:31am

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Simon K Jones

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What's going to happen when they run out of big cats?
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 11:44am

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er-no

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Tarn wrote:

What's going to happen when they run out of big cats?
Electric cats!!!!!!
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 12:14pm

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Joshua Davies

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A Pickle is right that Apple should stop claiming Windows copies them when they are in fact copying other people. To a degree this is true of Microsoft as well so I think its just part of being a huge software company and trying to pretend you're the one who has all the bright ideas.

Apple should stick to saying why their implimentation are innovative or perform better which would be very easy as most of Apple's software is fantastic and as good or better than what you get from the competition either on the Mac or on Windows.

As for people saying this is a lame excuse for an update I really don't get it. I've used every single version of Mac OS X since the first beta and this appears to be a huge update to both the OS and loads of the standard software which comes with it. Its about the biggest update I can remember to OS X since 10.2.

I also have to agree with A Pickle about dashboard as I never really use it. But then I know many people who do so maybe its just not for everyone.

Last edited Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:27pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 12:29pm

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Sollthar

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I simply don't see why I have to pay for every single OSX update and it starts to annoy me.

While someone who sees behind everything might see huge differences, I sure don't and I don't get why I have to pay for it.
Because to me, most big OSX updates have only had one or two gadgets I don't even use... crazy

A few more buttons here and there don't justify buying a new OS every so often.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 4:30pm

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Xel

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Wow. this place is *just* like slashdot. Same comments.

First off, all of this was announced at WWDC. Stuff for *developers*. Frankly, there was a lot there that interested me and my friends. XCode 3 anyone, Obj-C 2.0?

Secondly, you do realize that they announced this would be coming in the *spring*, right? That's like, uh.. 1/2 to 3/4 of a year off. They have *mounds* of time to announce more stuff at another convention.. Macworld anyone? I think they are right to save the best stuff for later.

As far as copying goes, why *shouldn't* (aside from patents/copyrights being enforced) we be encouraging people to copy bits and pieces from other OS's? Shouldn't everyones product get as good as it can be? AFAIK, Time Machine is basically a versioning system from Linux, which is pretty cool considering Apple has brought their GUI on top of it (With some pretty slick and accessible CoreAnimation features, .. Oh, hey CoreAnimation? What's that? Oh wait, something DEVS should care about..), and Spaces is a very Linux-y thing as well, .. But we're talking about bringing Linux' features to the everyday person. Your average computer moron doesn't know how to back up their data, doesn't use their whole hard drive, and sure as hell can't be bothered to use Linux for features like these.

Sure, maybe the jabs at MS are uncalled for, but who can't take a joke every now and then? (Ahh, wait, .. this crowd.. Doh..)

So yeah. I'm recommending you chill til MacWorld, and you'll find yourselves way more satisfied.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 4:33pm

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Xel

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Sollthar wrote:

I simply don't see why I have to pay for every single OSX update and it starts to annoy me.

While someone who sees behind everything might see huge differences, I sure don't and I don't get why I have to pay for it.
Because to me, most big OSX updates have only had one or two gadgets I don't even use... crazy

A few more buttons here and there don't justify buying a new OS every so often.
So uh. Don't?

I'm wondering who is forcing you at gunpoint to buy the new OS every 1.5 years. Wait for 3 and get the excitement of 2 OS releases! At least that's *still* slower than Windows releases. You'll get two releases for the price of one.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:09pm

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TimmyD

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Another article for you guys to read. About the "top secret" features.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/opinion/ihnatko/index.php?lsrc=mwrss

And stop pointing fingers at who copies who. Everyone copies everyone else, and sometimes they make the features better, and sometimes they don't. That's how the world works. I.E. if Apple didn't get the idea of GUI from Xerox, Mac OS wouldn't have a GUI. And neither would Windows, cause they got the windows 95 GUI from Apple. How bout the mouse? The keyboard? Yeah, stop pointing fingers. They copy each other, and that's how it should be.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:23pm

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Fill

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Time machine?!

I'm never getting a Mac! What's the point of deleting your history? Your parents just flip on the time machine and BAM! You're busted! razz
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:24pm

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Joshua Davies

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I expect there will be a secure delete feature, or you can just switch Time Machine off. With massive hard disks becoming so cheap I know its a feature I'll use on my Mac Pro when I get it.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:26pm

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Sollthar

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So uh. Don't?
Feeling clever today? smile

I'm wondering who is forcing you at gunpoint to buy the new OS every 1.5 years.
The guys who make certain applications I would like to use only compatible with the newest of these OSes...
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:32pm

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TimmyD

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schwar wrote:

I expect there will be a secure delete feature, or you can just switch Time Machine off. With massive hard disks becoming so cheap I know its a feature I'll use on my Mac Pro when I get it.
There is already a secure delete function in Tiger.

In the Finder, click on "Finder," then go down to "Secure Empty Trash." Simple.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 5:33pm

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Joshua Davies

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Its only Universal binary apps which tend to require 10.4 at the moment as that OS had been out a while by the time Intel Mac appeared and none of the older OS X versions are Universal.

I don't think thats really that harsh that you to upgrade as 10.3 came out at the end of 2003, coming up to 3 years ago.

I doubt you'll be required to update to 10.5 for software to work and I can't see the hardware changing any time soon.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:09pm

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Garrison

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Sollthar wrote:

I'm wondering who is forcing you at gunpoint to buy the new OS every 1.5 years.
The guys who make certain applications I would like to use only compatible with the newest of these OSes...
Quicktime is a perfect example of this. I had to upgrade just so I could view movie trailers and the like.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:19pm

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DigiSm89

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TimmyD wrote:

There is already a secure delete function in Tiger.

In the Finder, click on "Finder," then go down to "Secure Empty Trash." Simple.
Now, why couldn't you have said this when Pooky and I asked about permanently deleting files?

Instead of posting to articles for us to "read", why not just reply to others' responses in a calm manner?

Last edited Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:26pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 6:25pm

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DigiSm89

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schwar wrote:

Its only Universal binary apps which tend to require 10.4 at the moment as that OS had been out a while by the time Intel Mac appeared and none of the older OS X versions are Universal.

I don't think thats really that harsh that you to upgrade as 10.3 came out at the end of 2003, coming up to 3 years ago.

I doubt you'll be required to update to 10.5 for software to work and I can't see the hardware changing any time soon.
schwar, I have to ask this. If Apple goes the way of releasing updates to an OS, shouldn't there be minimal under the hood changes and only improvements to the OS version with each update? Upgrades, afaik go through the major revisions like core restructure, new kernal, etc. Updates seem more like a fix this, fix that, add new feature, patch this exploit kind of deal. So for OS X to have updates, why should backwards compatibility suffer?

Unless I'm sharpening the line between update and upgrade.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 7:28pm

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A Pickle

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TimmyD wrote:

And stop pointing fingers at who copies who. Everyone copies everyone else, and sometimes they make the features better, and sometimes they don't. That's how the world works. I.E. if Apple didn't get the idea of GUI from Xerox, Mac OS wouldn't have a GUI. And neither would Windows, cause they got the windows 95 GUI from Apple. How bout the mouse? The keyboard? Yeah, stop pointing fingers. They copy each other, and that's how it should be.
I agree, that is how it should be. I'm not complaining about who copies who, I'm frustrated how Apple can put banners all over WWDC about how "Redmond has a cat, too. A copycat," or how Apple's Bertrand Serlet says, "If you can't innovate, you imitate, but it's never quite as good."

Then they announce all of their "new" features, many of which have been in Windows for a long time. A bit hypocritical, you might think, no?
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 7:34pm

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Joshua Davies

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mVPstar - Its not backward compatibility which suffers, backward compatibility is just fine. Old Mac OS X programs still work in 10.4 and 10.5 even PPC ones on Intel system.

The issue is that new applications (both 3rd party and by Apple) which make use of core new system technology might require the latest version of the OS to function. I see no problem with this, its what keep things moving and I want everyone to make use of the new technology operating systems offer.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 7:49pm

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Sollthar

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This core technology isn't interesting for a standard user though, because not visible.

I see your a programmer schwar and you look at an OS in a completely different way then a normal user. I'm a complete noob user when it comes to OSes and while I see a HUGE difference between OS 9.2 and OSX, I can't really see much actual updates from there onwards. They all look the same and feel the same to me, apart from some greatly announced gadgets that I never ever used yet.

I think it's a bit of the same when you suddenly have to buy a new mobile phone for 200 $ because it has a new chip inside, but apart from that, to you, all looks exactly like before. You can still call someone, hear their voice and when you speak, they can hear yours, which is all you want from your phone. The same was true for your old phone though. So it leaves you a bit puzzled why you had to spend 200 bucks for it.

The should make it look different maybe. At least you get the feeling you have something new. I just bought OSX 4 yesterday and I can't see one single bit of difference. Oh yeah, the "find" thing is in different looking window now, but that's about it.

While updating from OS9 to OSX made me go "whoa, everything is new, great, I'll explore" smile
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 7:53pm

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Joshua Davies

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I'm talking about Spotlight, QuickTime, Time Machine, OpenGL. All of these are totally visible to users. Core technology is both visible and invisible. The difference between 10.1, 10.2 and 10.4 are very evident to all users I'm aware of. I would check out Spotlight if you've just upgraded to 10.4 - its a great new addition and totally different to what went before it.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 7:57pm

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Sollthar

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Then I'm the first user you know that really actually sees no differences between 10.1, 10.2 and 10.4 except for a few gimmicks. :I

What's spotlight?
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:13pm

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Pooky

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Spotlight - can be useful sometimes
Quicktime - er, the upgrade was free on PC...
Time Machine - as I've said, I've never deleted anything by accident, and I'd rather have the disk space

Nothing worth upgrading for IMO.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:25pm

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Joshua Davies

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Pooky - I'm not even going to bother, it was a developers show but they did show a lot of stuff which will be useful to consumers as well.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:28pm

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Pooky

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Not really razz
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:32pm

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JohnCarter

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Sollthar wrote:

What's spotlight?
Spotlight was reason enough to get Tiger alone IMO.

It's a great search engine that indexes everything on your drive and you can search anything, anywhere as long as you know a word or a descriptor that is in the document.

I just LOVE spotlight. Makes my life a hell of a lot easier...

Last edited Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:44pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:34pm

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Joshua Davies

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I'm with you John Carter when it comes to 10.4. I wasn't a fan of 10.3 or 10.1. But 10.4 has been the best update so far and I expect 10.5 to be even better. Lets also not forget that Apple has also moved from PPC to Intel in this time period.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:44pm

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A Pickle

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Pooky wrote:

Time Machine - as I've said, I've never deleted anything by accident, and I'd rather have the disk space
And besides, Microsoft announced that Windows Vista would ship with "undelete" well before WWDC 2006.

schwar wrote:

But 10.4 has been the best update so far and I expect 10.5 to be even better. Lets also not forget that Apple has also moved from PPC to Intel in this time period.
Tiger was a massive upgrade, and it was really innovative. Spotlight was the neatest addition, in my opinion. RSS had been seen in Firefox for quite some time... but Spotlight was pretty revolutionary. I use Windows Desktop Search all the time now (of course, WDS supports Boolean operands smile).

Last edited Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 9:14pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:45pm

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Sollthar

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Hm, a "search engine for files on my harddrive" is exactly one of these feature I have absolutely no use for... I know where my files are.

Chances are much higher I forget how I named them then where I put them. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:47pm

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JohnCarter

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Wasn't there something like Time Machine on XP? Where you could go back to a previous install of the OS in case of a problem? In typical Windows fashion, it was unnecessarily complicated and cumbersome, that is when it worked, but it was there.

I agree that Apple is pushing their luck with their derision of Windows. While it may be an easy target, both sides have copied the others since their respective inception...
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:48pm

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JohnCarter

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Sollthar wrote:

Hm, a "search engine for files on my harddrive" is exactly one of these feature I have absolutely no use for... I know where my files are.

Chances are much higher I forget how I named them then where I put them. biggrin
Well, talk to me again when you have to sift through 4 Terabytes of data... wink

You may know where it is but it doesn't mean that you have the time to look for it. Spotlight brings it out in the forefront in a heartbeat.

It is amazingly efficient - way beyond any search engine I have ever seen.

Last edited Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:52pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:51pm

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Pooky

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Hmm, with TBs of data I can definately see how Spotlight would make the upgrade worth it, heh.

Thing is though, how can Time Machine work with 4TB of Data? Where will it back it up?
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:53pm

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Sollthar

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I'm only at 2,5 TB at the moment, but the way I work doesn't even have many files.

For Example, I hate captures that produce a single clip wherever the cam was stopped. I want one clip per Tape... On my exchangable NightCast disks, I have avout 20 files on each of my 7 disks.

8 videofiles namend "Day12.mov" "Day13.mov" etc and 12 final cut files named "scene20" "scene21" "scene22" etc, which I then export onto my maindrive into a drawer namend "NightCast/finalscenes/" and then again numbered. smile
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 8:54pm

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JohnCarter

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Well, storage is my issue. I use Backup daily for my files anyways so I don't care that much for Time Machine. I haven't seen much yet in terms of new features to make me jump for Leopard. But it is still early in the game, as others mentionned.

This sounds more like a wet people appetite thing...

As for the way you store your files, I do the same - per days, scenes, etc. I know where my editing stuff is. But spotlight indexes everything - emails, addresses, word files, etc.

You want to find a particular email from a year ago, as long as you remember one keyword from it, bingo, it's there.

I LOVE IT!
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 9:16pm

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A Pickle

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Sollthar wrote:

Hm, a "search engine for files on my harddrive" is exactly one of these feature I have absolutely no use for... I know where my files are.

Chances are much higher I forget how I named them then where I put them. biggrin
That's exactly how it is with me. That's why I absolutely hate when programs create folders in my "My Documents" directory. I have my methods of organizing, and those interrupt it. I recall posting a rant about this on FXhome somewhere... no offense schwar. smile

...but can you put the FXhome folders in Application Data or something? unsure
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 9:21pm

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nfsbuff

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Hey TimmyD, since you like articles razz heres one you might like. Kinda gives you a view of this whole thing from the flipside, by someone who's not ooo-d and ahh-d by apple's eyecandy, nor microsoft's ineptness.

Article - by Paul Thurrott
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 9:44pm

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DigiSm89

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nfsbuff wrote:

Hey TimmyD, since you like articles razz heres one you might like. Kinda gives you a view of this whole thing from the flipside, by someone who's not ooo-d and ahh-d by apple's eyecandy, nor microsoft's ineptness.

Article - by Paul Thurrott
You post an article by a Microsoft Valued Partner. crazy


Anything Paul Thurrott says is BS usually. He writes articles just to generate visitors who can click on the many ads around his site. His article style is basically this: he posts something negative about OS X/Windows, then when something new comes up he goes and totally flips around his opinion just to shed light on the very products he previously dissed. This style generates more lame visitors, further generating more revenue for himself.

What he posts is generally what a lot of the internet has been saying for quite a while now. He's quite late to the party, not an event any new to him. When something new comes up with Leopard, I can bet you he will immediately change his perception of Apple.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 9:54pm

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nfsbuff

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My post was somewhat, if not more then a little, tongue-in-cheek...
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 10:07pm

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Pooky

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Actually I completely agree with Thurrott's opinion most of the time, especially in this case.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 10:14pm

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nfsbuff

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Being a Microsoft product reviewer, I can see how his opinion may come across as tainted. But some of the facts he brings forward are, well, facts.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 10:30pm

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TimmyD

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A Pickle wrote:

Sollthar wrote:

Hm, a "search engine for files on my harddrive" is exactly one of these feature I have absolutely no use for... I know where my files are.

Chances are much higher I forget how I named them then where I put them. biggrin
That's exactly how it is with me. That's why I absolutely hate when programs create folders in my "My Documents" directory. I have my methods of organizing, and those interrupt it. I recall posting a rant about this on FXhome somewhere... no offense schwar. smile

...but can you put the FXhome folders in Application Data or something? unsure
Yeah, jesus christ, I use the "Documents" folders for documents, like text and stuff. Put the FXhome folder in the "Applicatoin Support" folder.
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 10:30pm

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Pooky

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You mean Application Data razz
Posted: Wed, 9th Aug 2006, 11:22pm

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ssj john

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Is there a microsoft press conference anywhere?
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 3:29am

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Pooky

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Yeah but they're all boring and mostly just for developers.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:15am

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TimmyD

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Pooky wrote:

You mean Application Data razz
No, I mean Application Support.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:37am

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A Pickle

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ssj john wrote:

Is there a microsoft press conference anywhere?
WinHEC. Of course, Microsoft also participates at CES, Spring and Fall IDF, Computex, E3, and Cebit. They used to attend Comdex... but... Comdex... died. unsure

nfsbuff wrote:

Being a Microsoft product reviewer, I can see how his opinion may come across as tainted. But some of the facts he brings forward are, well, facts.
I was about to say. He's slightly bent towards the Windows world (obviously), and he's considerably less harsh on Apple than the Mac columnists out there. I can't tell you how many times I've read his articles where he writes about how Vista still isn't up to snuff to Mac OS X in some areas... but then he writes about where Vista trounces Mac OS X, and the ripple effect through the Mac channel is, to be frank, denigrating to Paul.

Then he comes back, and writes another pretty thoughtful post about some other topic, and the process repeats. I really respect the guy.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 6:39am

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Atom

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All I know is this:

OSX and Windows both shipped the same time, 2001.

Since then, OSX has had 5 "major" updates, XP has had none.

Sure, maybe the option is there, but certainly not required to run certain apps. What does this tell you? I've had XP for 4 years now, and never had to upgrade, never faced any truly horrendous problem. And still, that same XP boot disk from 2002, owns most the market, and still rivals the newest version of OSX.

Using this reasoning, is it possible to assume that Vista will live, rivaling 5 more MacOSes over the next 5 years? Quite possibly. That's one reason to have a PC. I spend my $150 on Vista, and 5 years later I've still been able to use that $150 with every new peice of software, whereas in Thurrott's words "that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades".

Highs and lows, PC and Mac, I know one thing:
Those Macs sure are perdy. wink
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 6:47am

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rogolo

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I'm not too keen on everything that the Core Animation does, but will FXhome be able to use it to improve anything in a future version of CL/EL/VL for Mac by using it? And will the programs be optimized for Intel? Or am I just asking ignorant questions? smile
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 10:22am

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A Pickle

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Atom wrote:

Since then, OSX has had 5 "major" updates, XP has had none.
Well... Steve got on his bandwagon a bit early on that one. Windows XP has definitely had some major updates, updates that, quite frankly, Mac OS X doesn't quite touch, in some areas. If his intent were to imply that Microsoft has been sitting still as far as their operating system, hell, entire software lineup goes, he couldn't be more wrong.

I disagree with Mr. Thurrott a little bit on his listing of releases of Windows... but Windows has been updated, and many times. Windows XP, Windows XP Service Pack 2, Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, Windows XP x64 Edition (for running 64-bit code on EM64T and AMD64 systems), Windows XP 64-bit Edition (for running IA-64 Itanium-based systems), Windows Server 2003, Windows Mobile 2003, Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition, Windows Mobile 2005...

...and that's not mentioning the slew of Windows Live services we are enduring the barrage from, now. Some of them are flim-flam services that are ultimately useless, but some are damn good, such as Windows Live Mail Desktop, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Live Safety Center and Xbox Live to name some of the good ones.

Even still, if you're talking about updates to Windows XP in general, then... frankly... I'm fine without them. A few weeks ago, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer announced that the time between new versions of Windows would be lessened, and I see this as a bad thing. Perhaps between routine updates (akin to Apple's system) but frankly, the transition to a new operating system can be difficult. Windows XP has matured into a solid, fast, stable, and accelerated platform. The amount of support it has from freeware applications to hardware devices is nothing short of appalling. You can do so much with it, it's just unreal. Vista looks fun, but I hope I get to stick with it for another five years, too. More, if I'm lucky.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 12:54pm

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Penguin

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Garrison wrote:

Quicktime is a perfect example of this. I had to upgrade just so I could view movie trailers and the like.
Because, of course, movie trailers are an integral part of your life...

Anyway we upgraded so we could get EffectsLab
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 12:59pm

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Fill

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Atom wrote:

Since then, OSX has had 5 "major" updates, XP has had none.
They sold me half a program. They're still sending me the rest. smile

But, think about how much better Vista will be though. XP is like Windows 2000, skinned to make it look like it's better. I didn't have hopes at all for XP. But I gotta say, Vista looks pretty spiffy.

OS 10.5 however, doesn't look any different. All I noticed was a few more dock icons and some widget maker.

Apple makes all these almost unnoticeable upgrades. Microsoft seems to make big leaps.

Mac's are cool. They have nice fun smooth working features that "wow" you. For me it's starting to lose it's "shine". I'm sorta sick of Macs, and all the Mac people that wont shutup about "How great my Mac is!" "Lets talk on iChat!" "iPod! iTunes! iPhoto! iThis! iThat!"
(Mac users please don't take offense to this light humor)
[EDIT: I almost completely agree with Paul thurrott.]
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 2:20pm

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TimmyD

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Darth Penguin wrote:

Anyway we upgraded so we could get EffectsLab
Hehe I lived in Jaguar for a long time, and in that time I had to run EffectsLab. All you had to do was right click on the icon, select "Show Package Contents," then go into the folder "Contents," and select the program item in there, and it bypasses any OS X version check.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 3:55pm

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Garfield Street

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It's sweet, our new laptops we get in school have Leopard X on the computer. *drools on new Mac*

So this makes me offically a Mac/ Windows user *hints to icons* -->

YIPEE!
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:04pm

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Xcession

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Garfield: is it deliberate, or by accident, that the image in your signature says "Garield Street" ?
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:07pm

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Joshua Davies

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Garfield Street - Leopard isn't out yet so your new computers can't have it on them. Leopard isn't out till sometime next year.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:19pm

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Xel

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Au contraire, It's possible to have it on your computer if you got one of the discs from WWDC (or from someone who went there) because they hand out free developer previews.

I've taken a quick peek at it because we got one in the office for a bit, but there is still a lot of buggy stuff.. Of course that's why we're not paying for it, heh.. And the license expires in month or two.
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 4:58pm

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Garfield Street

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Probably, I'm not sure how we got it, but I know we have a deal with Mac and our school maybe we did somehow! I don't know.

Xcession - yes it is delibrate biggrin
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 5:18pm

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DigiSm89

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Isn't that er...against the Agreement for beta software?

And exactly why would you want a beta OS which will expire in a few months installed on computers people will actually use?
Posted: Thu, 10th Aug 2006, 7:13pm

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Garfield Street

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Hey it wasn't me look to my school board for the answer to that question. All I know is that I have a Mac and suddenly I feel secure again!