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Great camcorder with NO! tapes or dvds

Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:41am

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doppelganger

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on another forum Someone siad that tapes are better than digital storage for filming a movie. thats not nesesarily(sorry about spelling) true, because i have a JVC hard disk camcorder and it has great quality and control ive had a sony digital 8(broke) icam(ran over by a lawn mower) and a sony mini dv(broke on the first day i had it). the icam was the worst horrible quality(thats what you get for spending $150)
anyway the JVC is great for $500... no need to spend money on tapes or dvds. hoped this helps anyone with there "is this camcorder good questions"
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:52am

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King of Blades

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Well, I'm sure that people will be able to research on their own on purchasing a camcorder. Granted, I may have the JVC Everio-G camcorder, but I believe that the majority of people on this website own a miniDV cam. (i.e. Canon GL2).

I bought the JVC cam. because of my rather low budget. I've been told that quality on miniDV cams are, indeed, far superior to digital storage cams, such as HDD (hard disc drive) cams.

I know that you're just trying to be helpful, but just remember that other people have minds too (heh). Not trying to be an @$$ to you or anything.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 1:43am

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Serpent

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Price quality ratio, mini dv is leagues beyond standard HDD recording. Hard Drive recording isn't cheap, small, fast, big enough yet. There are really expensive ones that work just as well. But film and tape are simply superior.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 2:18am

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doppelganger

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well considering im 14 i dont have $2000 bucks to burn on a camcorder ... so i was trying to be helpfull to the people in the same situation that im in, and i know there ARE people on this site who dont have $2000 either.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 2:47am

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Serpent

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Panasonic GS300, Panasonic GS500. Same price range, and the best camer ain that range to boot. I'm not saying the one you have is bad, or that you wasted your money. Just that there are some better options out there.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 2:49am

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King of Blades

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1 dollar budget wrote:

well considering im 14 i dont have $2000 bucks to burn on a camcorder ... so i was trying to be helpfull to the people in the same situation that im in, and i know there ARE people on this site who dont have $2000 either.
Well, I'm not sure age should be a real dillema. Granted, you won't be able to work when you're 14, but you really don't need $2000 for a decent camcorder.

You could probably buy a miniDV camcorder for the same price of an HDD cam, but I chose the HDD because I just didn't want to hassle with constant replacing of discs. Then again, that's probably the price you'd have to pay for a good quality camcorder...

I realize that you were trying to be helpful, and I'm totally sure that there are people here who would find this information helpful. Like I said in my previous post, I don't mean to be an @$$.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 3:33am

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Lior

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Please liten to me and listen good. I am risking getting a negetive for this but I am warning u because i don't want to see people getting tricked. HDD cams are bad. The quality is horible and u think spending 2000 is much wait till u go for repairs. I had many of my freinds who bought into that crap and regreted it ones errors strted to occure. I have a firestore which is expensive and yes way better then those hdd cmas if i use it on my dvx but i still use tape for backup because i dont trust harddrives due to errors. All my freinds accept for one and i am serious after the first yesr the hdd cam was dead due to errors. They are the worst peice of junk that ever came out and i hope nobody will buy this crap because its a true waste of money. If you cant affor 2000+ bux on a cam mabe you should stick to a good 3ccd cam. Hell for 1500 get a hdv which im not a big fan of but still worth the price. I would only get a hdd cam if i had money to throw away to get an expensive paperweight.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 3:36am

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King of Blades

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Then it seems that I have "bought into that crap".

lol
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 4:27am

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crazymonkey01

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1 dollar budget wrote:

icam(ran over by a lawn mower)
How exactly did you manage to run over a camera with a lawn mower?
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 4:48am

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King of Blades

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crazymonkey01 wrote:

1 dollar budget wrote:

icam(ran over by a lawn mower)
How exactly did you manage to run over a camera with a lawn mower?
Heh, pure ignorance of where you are and what is around you...?
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 4:49am

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ben3308

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1 dollar budget wrote:

ive had a sony digital 8(broke)............
.........icam(ran over by a lawn mower)..........
.........and a sony mini dv(broke on the first day i had it).......
I'm sure everyone will be willing to take an opinion from someone who destroys cameras for a living. wink
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 9:37am

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Simon K Jones

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While HDD cameras can be very cool for point-and-shoot filming, on holiday etc, some of them can cause a lot of problems when it comes to extensive post-production, due to storing the video as highly compressed MPEG. This can make compositing and grading very difficult, and re-encoding will rapidly reduce the quality of the video.

If you're not going to be doing much post-production or editing it won't be a problem, but it's worth bearing in mind.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 10:00am

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Jazzmanian

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For what it's worth, I got to play with a hard drive camera for a bit while shopping for mine. (It was a relative's and I believe it was a JVC in fact.) In the end I wound up getting a miniDV camera (the Panasonic PV GS300 mentioned above) and I have to tell you, the final quality of the output was worlds apart. The miniDV was just hands down better for that price range.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 11:10am

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Bryce007

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HDD cam's aren't awful, they simply don't afford their users the quality most filmmakers would need to make great looking films. Not to mention, Tapes are incredibly cheap.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:17pm

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doppelganger

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i have no problems with post or compositing. i just convert the funky codec that it comes in to avi. and it works fine. also look at fatdaves movie or clip called saving private elbando he has the exact camera i have and the qaulitys not horrible
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:30pm

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Kid

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Also its all very well saying that you dont have the hassle of changing tapes or dvds but where do you store all the footage then?
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 12:40pm

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Mellifluous

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The real benefit I see for hard disk video cameras (as well as dvd ones) is being able to transfer the video files quickly from camera to computer. I'll be interested in them once you start getting more pro-sumer cameras that save as .avi's so that you can start editing footage in 5 minutes.
Posted: Thu, 14th Dec 2006, 1:16pm

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Kid

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The bottom line is that tape is and always will be a cheaper and higher bandwidth format than harddrives. Because they are based on the same technology improvments in one field can be applied to the other.

The fact that they are becoming comparable in price is only because the video industry has lagged behind in tape technology merely because it doesnt want to sell a new standard yet. In the data industry tapes are upto 500GB at 50MBps, way way faster than DV tapes. And some standard similar to these is going to be neccesary for high definition formats and/or lossless compression.

I dont think the future is in harddrives at all. I think its either in a similar device that uses new technology to store much more data or more likely in a hybrid tape format that allows you to read the data off faster than realtime. Theres no technical reason why you should be limited to realtime but we are stuck with that because when DV came out it really wasn't meant for everyday use with computers.
Posted: Fri, 15th Dec 2006, 2:35pm

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StrikeEmStudios

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i happen to own the JVC mg21 or whatever, so far i ahve had no problems

it has not been hard for me to grade(then again ive used presets and im a beginner)
ive had good quality videos and im entierly happy with this camcorder.

what i hate is the fact is that it cannot use an external mic, and the 1 hour battery you get with it.

been a tight opinionated arse i didnt want to buy a load of mini dvs and dvd for £8 every month or so(depending what i do) i also hate tapes scince stuff like taht will be outdated next year or so.

and you dont get that horrid noise of a tape or disk moving round inside with a hdd camera.


for £350 i think its a perfectly good camcorder. the only way id buy 1 of those £1200 mini dv camcorders is if i was crazy or a millionaire.
Posted: Fri, 15th Dec 2006, 7:51pm

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DavidLittlefield

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I think we all just need to chill out a little. I think we're getting off topic.
Posted: Fri, 15th Dec 2006, 7:57pm

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Corby

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think of the problems that can happen to a normal hard drive(not counting viruses) now imagine that happening to your camcorder right after u just finshed filming ur big project.
Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006, 5:34am

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Kid

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You keep saying that you dont have to spend money on tapes or dvds but what do you do when you fill the harddrive?
Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006, 12:08pm

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StrikeEmStudios

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Kid16 Dec 2006 05:34
You keep saying that you dont have to spend money on tapes or dvds but what do you do when you fill the harddrive?


you know thats a really dumb question!


any idiot could tell you any camera with a hard drive can be wiped, any clip you dont want or need and be deleted singaly(not sure if thats a word or a mistake),

i highly doubt that a company would make a camera with a hard drive if you couldent erase what you dont want, because no one would buy it, especialy with a price like £350/$500
Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006, 12:25pm

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Mellifluous

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I think Kid's point is that with tapes, you can record on them and then save them if need be. If you want to save your footage shot on hard disk after you've edited it (as backup) then you have to save it on your pc hard disk, which takes up loads of space. Also, when you're shooting and suddenly notice you're running out of space, you don't have the option to change tapes.

Personally, I'd rather have hard drive storage in videocameras, as it would result in better quality footage and easier transfer. I'd root for a portable disk format like hdvd or blu-ray if the footage was recorded as uncompressed, not .mpg
Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006, 1:15pm

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StrikeEmStudios

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on the everio hdd camera the files are saves a MOD. which is wiered you then change it to whatever you perfer on your editing software.

if your making a full length film its just common sense to make several copys, as in put you clips on a couple of discs/external hard drive/flash sticks.

personaly i try to compress my edited footage as soon as posibal then a eather get rid of the larger file or use it as a backup.