Land of Choas Trailer.
Posted: Thu, 28th Dec 2006, 4:32pm
Post 1 of 36
After listening to your advise in recent posts I'm doing my best to correct my "lazy" editing so that my movies move along at a better pace.
I hope my little trailer for the upcoming movie shows this.
The film is called Land of Chaoswww.superteam.biz/loctrailer.wmv
Posted: Thu, 28th Dec 2006, 6:27pm
Post 2 of 36
I'm aware of the comments made towards you and am happy to say that to me, this seems like a big step forward.
As with most videos we see around here there is still some room for improvement but this trailer showed that you can actually edit
The only thing I can suggest you add to this trailer is some "trailer narration" of sort to tell us what the hell is going on. Looks good though so far and I hope you keep us up to date with it's progress
Posted: Thu, 28th Dec 2006, 6:42pm
Post 3 of 36
thanks, I had asked John Carters friend to do narration, but as yet they are busy so I thought the text might help.
If and when J.C.s friend can do the text i'd sent then i'll redo the trailer.
Thanks for your comments.
Posted: Thu, 4th Jan 2007, 4:14pm
Post 4 of 36
great! really can't wait. Doesn't seem sloppy or poorly editted at all
Posted: Thu, 4th Jan 2007, 10:53pm
Post 5 of 36
The shots of the fireball were pretty beautiful. Some of the 3D (dragons, skeleton) was very well done as well. Great job!
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 12:10am
Post 6 of 36
I like very much the skeletton CGI.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 12:16am
Post 7 of 36
I don't like most of your stuff (just not my kind of stuff), but this actually looked fun and entertaining. I wish you luck on it. Though, a lot of the effects were fine (the 3d stuff was good for what it was, etc.). But the particle effects were absolutely atrocious. I suggest using stock, or getting particle illusion, or learning EL better. They didn't integrate well, they were flat, not very glowy, sharp ugly details, and looked like they we're hovering over the video, like a mouse trail in a 90's website. The other thing that could be fixed was sound editing. The music was very well fitting, but everything else sounded like it was being played (loudly) through a cell phone speaker and it did not fit well. I think those few things could make or break this as a fun amateur film. I liked the camera movement, composition, editing etc. A lot of the color could have been better. It seemed overexposed and sometimes a little corny in the grading. But it looks interesting.
Also, you acknowledged that you are actually taking others advice and it honestly shows. I respect that, because it seemed hard for you to do in the past. I think if you studied 2d compositing and color management and theory, you could move your work much further.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 10:22am
Post 8 of 36
Thanks for your comments, the 2d effects could be better, Shadu will be doing the 2d particle effects for the proper film and will be better than my version, I use alamdv effects for the 2d.
I always listen to peoples comments, weather it's things I can improve on is another matter, eg having the time to learn PI etc, but I'm going through a colour grading learning process at the moment, been watching the LOTR extras and seeing what they did.
Once again many thanks.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 1:53pm
Post 9 of 36
Editing, costumes, camera work are all getting really top notch for you. As to the 3D, I liked the skeleton very much, but I'm afraid the dragons are a bit lacking. They just didn't come up to the level of the rest of the film. I don't know what options are available to you to improve that aspect, but I know they need to be just a tad more realistic and integrated into the live action footage a little better. Acting was quite good and overall it's a well put together, intriguing trailer which makes me curious to see the whole film. (Which is, after all, the purpose of a trailer.) So I'd have to say that overall it's an excellent job.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 2:08pm
Post 10 of 36
Great little teaser from the Superteam mob.....and yes it does the job perfectly .
This movie in the making is very close to Ian's heart and I think that shows in the care he's put in.
I'm looking forward to finished film.....I personally love fantasy type movies.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 3:34pm
Post 11 of 36
Nice one - this is a lot better than previous stuff. There's more to be done, but I really like it. The compositing is excellent for the most part, particularly the skeleton and the fireball.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 3:48pm
Post 12 of 36
Thanks again for the kind comments, you are spot on about the dragon, i've been looking on the net for the last year to buy a dragon model (this is the only film i've spent my own money on) But the only the dragon I could find at the time of doing the trailer was a poser model.
If anyone comes across a dragon model with textures that look half decent, prefer 3ds max, no matter what price please let me know.
Thanks once again
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 4:07pm
Post 13 of 36
Yep, i will do the 2D/3D particle effect.... I will try some 3D particle for the first time in this one... Maybe in the third part of hunted. Depend who will be finish first... hehe.. What ever... They will be much better... trust me on this. I beging to understand PI very well.
For the CGI, the dragon of poser is not so bad. He is even very good, even if the texture could be better, but you need to make it blend better with the environnement. If you still have a the same poser file for the dragon i can make a try with my software... We talk about it later...
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 4:19pm
Post 14 of 36
b4uask30male wrote:If anyone comes across a dragon model with textures that look half decent, prefer 3ds max, no matter what price please let me know.
You can actually convert your Poser model into 3D Studio Max. There are tons of Poser models as opposed to more traditional 3D apps ones and usually Poser models are really good - except on the textures department. But once you have imported it in 3DS Max, you can apply a new Shader and create a whole new, better looking model from your old Poser one. I'll post some examples later when I have a a minute.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 4:35pm
Post 15 of 36
If anyone comes across a dragon model with textures that look half decent, prefer 3ds max, no matter what price please let me know.
No matter what price?Dragon Model
That looks kickass. Though you'd expect it to be at that price!
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 5:20pm
Post 16 of 36
Thanks JC and Arktic,
I had seen that dragon and really thought about it, but for some reason it looked a bit shinny, still better than my dragon but light reflecting off the dragon looks a bit... well reflective.
I guess i'm hoping to find one that was in reign of fire. maybe asking too much.
I'll have to try the poser to max thing, I tried that years ago but the software wasn't very good to convert, do you know a good one that will bring in the bones.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 5:44pm
Post 17 of 36
I would have thought that the shiney-ness is just the render, though? Surely you can tweak that?
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 5:58pm
Post 18 of 36
You could be right, but i'm not that good with max, best i can do is bone and animate, the rest such as textures are way beyond me
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 6:00pm
Post 19 of 36
Poser models can be truly amazing if you are careful with the application.
A lot of hogwash is spoken about poser and I feel
that most of the critics don't know how to create a decent looking
model in the first place.
With all applications inc. 3ds you can turn out crappy stuff if you are not fully versed in their procedures.
There is too much bulls..t spoken about various 3d software when in reality all are capable of tremendous quality.......like most things..
it depends on your commitment.
This post is NOT to start a discussion but was "triggered " by an innocent remark from Ian which brought to light a point ,about 3d software, that really gets me goin'.....hehe.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 6:48pm
Post 20 of 36
Let's be objective though, you can't compare Poser to the likes of 3DS as they perform almost entirely seperate functions.
Ian - As with alot of 3D, the textures play a huge role in creating a realistic final render. If you took the poser stock dragon and went about adding some environmental texturing it would instantly appear to be much more grounded within your shots.
Saying you don't know how to do something doesn't mean you should avoid it but rather than you should now strive to add it to your existing repertoire of skills as it is obvious that it would benefit your work.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 7:11pm
Post 21 of 36
I'm trying to learn 3ds, brought the bible and a few tutorials, when I find a few mins spare I have a go at it, but as mentioned it goes over my head, so please don't say "Saying you don't know how to do something doesn't mean you should avoid it" i'm not avoiding it, I try everything myself first.
But your right textures are soooo important.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 8:27pm
Post 22 of 36
best i can do is bone and animate, the rest such as textures are way beyond me
Heh, fun, I find organic boning and animation the most difficult part of 3D work. Far more difficult then texturing.
I'm sure you can learn that when you've managed to do bone and animation work.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 8:34pm
Post 23 of 36
It was a matter of earning money from adding bones, the textures I wouldn't earn any money, but time is my biggest problem, not enough of it, if i was 10 years yonger or there was a parnter to help me that would solve it.
Make that 20 years younger
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 8:49pm
Post 24 of 36
I was talking about same thing to my wife this afternoon...Time.
As above and many other guys on this forum who have Family commitments I really do feel sorry for you fellas......I'm retired with plenty of time but the days are not long enough when you are trying to learn 3d apps.....poser about 3yrs ....c4d same....vue same.
premiere same...... afterfx same and I still feel I have'nt learned a thing ....so my heart goes out to you guys who want to conquer these 3d apps. but their commitments don't allow the time required.
Movie making in its more natural form (excl. fx etc.)is a difficult enough hobby to fit in your schedules but add on 3d it must be a
very frustrating situation.
I like Ian would love to go back to my teens and start on all these fantastic applications and perhaps make something half decent.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 8:54pm
Post 25 of 36
I think people like Solthar, John Carter and myself have missed the boat so to speak, we grew up with super 8, vhs-c, v8, vhs, hi8, The kids today are lucky and don't know it, I'm trying to push my 12 year old daughter to learn filming or some 3d software but she can't be bothered
breaks my heart, if I was her age.....
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 9:00pm
Post 26 of 36
I concur, growing up with VHS helped the creativity and actual understanding of techniques if anything. Back in those days without computers, there were no programs which created dragons on the push of a button, or applications that could turn your bright day scene into a night shoot or anything of that sort...
You had to do it all practically and that is still helping me out loads today.
I dare say if I didn't grow up learning "old classic" techniques I wouldn't be making a visual effect heavy action feature film today that will have a theatrical run.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 10:23pm
Post 27 of 36
The trailer looked better, but I have an important peice of advice for you. It lacked good pacing, it didn't flow together well at all. Work on picking the music then editing your shots to it. It's all about finding balance.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jan 2007, 10:29pm
Post 28 of 36
Thanks Kyeju, your right, was a bit stupid of me, totally got wrapped up in the fx and how i was going to try to convey a sort of story that I didn't think about timing it properly, I'll make sure I do that in the future.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 3:09am
Post 29 of 36
The shiny look of this model, http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/264267,
is probably only a clic or two in 3DS. So it can be arrange very easily i thing.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 7:41am
Post 30 of 36
Didn't have the time to view your short before. But now that I've seen it realy impressed me. Realy great work Ian hope to see the full movie. You made great steps ahead. Keep it up friend.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 2:16pm
Post 31 of 36
Have a look at my new guide:http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27135&highlight=
Especially the chapter about grading and sound might be able to help you improve, because I can both see and hear in your trailer that there's room left to do so especially in these areas.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 2:33pm
Post 32 of 36
Thanks, I've skipped past your post before I din't think it would have anything I could use, but i'm wrong, thanks.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 2:43pm
Post 33 of 36
The guide is newely written with examples etc, it's quite different to the one before.
There's numerous things in there you can use. Just the sound and grading really stood out which is why I've mentioned them.
Btw. good work on that crane shot that's in the trailer! Always good to see a shot like that in an indiefilm. Makes a huge difference.
(If you're willing to share info on that I'm sure many other aspiring filmmakers would love to hear about your experience with it)
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 3:22pm
Post 34 of 36
The jib was around £180 from ebay, the guys that sell it make it themselves, it splits into 2 and takes 2 people to set up (one person can do it but with a struggle) the rest of that shot your talking about sees the actor walk up and past the camera and it follows him, the way i done that was to turn the camera side ways, not facing front but facing to the right, i was lucky the camera i used fitted, but now my fx1 wouldn't be able to turn sideways.
The biggest problem I could see anyone have is the tripod, i've got a very good (not a pro one) but very nearly and the jib sometimes pulls the tripod head down, so a cheap tripod would be a waste and won't work.
I don't use weights on the end, i should but i've found as long as I hold onto it i can get good results with out the need to carry even more heavy stuff.
The jib is an 8foot one, i've seen on ebay bigger ones but i've read they might sway in a strong wind.
The cons, heavy, cost money, hard to transport, splits into 2 4ft bits.
The pros, worth every penny, LOVE IT everyone should have one, I don't care how heavy it is, they are worth it.
I've got some shots of us using it if anyone wants to see the clips?
Posted: Sat, 6th Jan 2007, 3:31pm
Post 35 of 36
Sounds cool. And the shot in the trailer really did stand out. I've always thought about investing into a proper jib but never got around doing it.
I've get a heavy chrome steel tripod - because I've managed to kill all my other tripods off - so that should be able to deal with everything.
Yeah, if you've got any B-Roll footage that be great.
Might add a part on cranes and dollies in my guide when I got some proper experience using them, which I don't have at the moment.
Posted: Sun, 7th Jan 2007, 5:01pm
Post 36 of 36
I did make a test with the dragon of Daz. I import it, without modification (standard texture), in vue then render it with some 3D element.
Here is the result:http://www.imaginethisproductions.net/images/dragon_demo.jpg
AS you can see i can be good looking. The render engine in poser just not that good.... Only default of this method? Vue can't import morph form poser...