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Adding damage to filmed street and buildings?

Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 3:56pm

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tommynator

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I'm making a movie and there is a scene where we are filming on the streets, but there needs to be allot damage to the street and buildings. twisted Do you guys have any idea how i should do this?

thanks
Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 3:57pm

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NickD

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Here you go:

http://www.nccinema.ch/efx03.html

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Nick
Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 5:10pm

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tommynator

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thanks but they say you need cinema 4d and i don't have it sad
Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 5:12pm

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NickD

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You could probably use another app.
Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 6:35pm

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NuttyBanana

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i thing that only the smoke was rendered in cinema 4d. You could find some stock smoke footage easily enough, [url-http://www.detonationfilms.com/free_stuff.htm]try here[/url]. That site has loads of free stock footage.

Everything else in that NCC tutorial seems to be photoshop mainly so if you have that then you're set to go biggrin

If you're new to it all then you should check out the ultimate FAQ here on fxhome.
Posted: Mon, 8th Jan 2007, 10:02pm

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petet2

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If you have a still locked off camera for the shots you can shoot a blank background plate for each set up (i.e.: the scene without your actors) before the action takes place.

Export a still frame grab from your empty scene video and work on it in Photoshop or similar editing program to create the damaged background. Make sure you leave the area where the actors are untouched.

Reimport the damaged background and matte out the areas where your actors go, superimposing it over the footage with the actors. It's a digital equivalent of the old glass painting trick used by Hollywood. The only limitation is that you have to ensure that your actors stay in an isolated area of the frame (they can't go in front of the damage with this technique).

The last shot in the first Raiders of the Lost Ark movie (where the man with a trolley pushes the wooden box containing the Ark of the Covenant in a huge warehouse full of similar boxes) was done this way. The warehouse was painted on a huge sheet of glass with a clear space left in the middle for the aisle. The camera filmed the man with the trolley through the glass plate so he appeared to be walking up the aisle in the painting of the warehouse.
Posted: Tue, 9th Jan 2007, 5:18pm

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tommynator

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thanks for your reply's

but if i should do it as the toturial on nccinema do i need to do it then with every frame or not

and pete2 i don't not have program for compositing yet . sad
Posted: Tue, 9th Jan 2007, 6:57pm

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petet2

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I think you'd need a compositing program for the nccinema tutorial. To be honest whichever way you want to add effects to some prefilmed footage you are going to need a compositing program.

You could try using a video edting program and use a vertical wipe transition where the start and end are set at 50% (so it creates a split screen effect rather than a wipe). Your video clip with the actors is visible in the bottom half of the screen and the still with damage applied is in the top half of the frame. It helps if you have a horizontal line to follow to avoid any misalignment between the two images.

Alternatively you could actually get a photograph of the street (with damage applied) blown up and film through a cut out hole in it just like the old glass painting technique I described in my previous post?

Failing that you could have some images of damaged buildings in long shot using models or photographs to set the scene and then frame the shots of your actors very tightly so as not to show the background. You could dress the shots with your actors with bits of debris and the odd burning rag etc to link to the damaged street images.
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 4:13pm

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tommynator

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hey thanks for the reply petet2 and i am going to try it out .
but if i try the nccinema toturial will i have to do it then frame by frame or not ? if not , i will try both and will i use the best looking.

thanks
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 6:06pm

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petet2

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I'm not sure what you mean by doing it frame by frame to be honest. Yes you will need to add effects to each frame but whther you do that manually on each frame or not depends upon what program you use.

If you use the FX Home prgrams for example you can use key frames so you only have to draw on some for the frames and the software will fill in the intermediate frames for you. If you are using some photoediting software then you will need to draw on each frame yes.
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 7:12pm

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tommynator

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yes that is what i meant so thanks for the reply . i am going to try your method and i will see how it looks.
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 7:37pm

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DavidLittlefield

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I didn't follow petet2 exactly, but I think this is a different approach...
I'm assuming, oh wait. Do you have Effectslab?
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 7:58pm

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tommynator

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no i don't have effectslab .
Posted: Wed, 10th Jan 2007, 11:26pm

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lwmedia

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You can matchmove the scene, and in a 3D app, add alpha planes textured with dirt, and wreakage overtop the buildings.
Posted: Thu, 11th Jan 2007, 4:48am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Stumbled across this nice piece of CG which involves adding damage to buildings. I think it's appropriate as it deconstructs the elements involved. Really rather nifty stuff this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFmPeakghs

-Hybrid.
Posted: Thu, 11th Jan 2007, 4:41pm

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tommynator

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wow Hybrid-Halo that is really cool .
but 3d turtle i can't work with 3d app .
Posted: Thu, 11th Jan 2007, 6:43pm

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tommynator

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:


Stumbled across this nice piece of CG which involves adding damage to buildings. I think it's appropriate as it deconstructs the elements involved. Really rather nifty stuff this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFmPeakghs

-Hybrid.
does any one know how this can by done and what program you need for it , or is it to hard to do ?

thanks
Posted: Thu, 11th Jan 2007, 7:43pm

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petet2

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Well it depends what you mean by hard, lol.

It must have taken a while to put together. It will have used more than one peice of software including image editing and compositing (and I guess 3D - I don't think the armoured car was a model).

And even if you had all of those pieces of software it requires talent and imagination to do it so well.
Posted: Fri, 12th Jan 2007, 4:57pm

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tommynator

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alright i have more thane enough imagination but the talent do do that is a problem . but do you know what kind of software you need to do that because everybody needs to start somewhere and maybe i will be anable to to sutch a cool thing .

thanks
Posted: Fri, 12th Jan 2007, 5:57pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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tommynator wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:


Stumbled across this nice piece of CG which involves adding damage to buildings. I think it's appropriate as it deconstructs the elements involved. Really rather nifty stuff this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFmPeakghs

-Hybrid.
does any one know how this can by done and what program you need for it , or is it to hard to do ?

thanks
It took a trained digital arts student who had been studying for 3 years 6 months of nonstop work to do that. So yeah, it's definitely not easy. I'm currently amidst a load of work else I'd create a tutorial on this kind of effect, it's major work though which requires a good knowledge of 3D graphics, modelling and tracking.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Fri, 12th Jan 2007, 6:43pm

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tommynator

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alright so i cant do that but. i am gonne by a compositing program biggrin
i will just have to wait when i have enough money to by it .
and then green screen the scène .
Posted: Fri, 12th Jan 2007, 11:33pm

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Big Man

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That is SO COOL. I would love to be able to do that. It is even remotely possible with Effects Lab, After effects, or Photoshop?
Posted: Fri, 12th Jan 2007, 11:34pm

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NickD

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Definitely. With those three programs you should be able to pull it off.
Posted: Sat, 13th Jan 2007, 3:17am

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ben3308

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

tommynator wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:


Stumbled across this nice piece of CG which involves adding damage to buildings. I think it's appropriate as it deconstructs the elements involved. Really rather nifty stuff this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFmPeakghs

-Hybrid.
does any one know how this can by done and what program you need for it , or is it to hard to do ?

thanks
It took a trained digital arts student who had been studying for 3 years 6 months of nonstop work to do that. So yeah, it's definitely not easy. I'm currently amidst a load of work else I'd create a tutorial on this kind of effect, it's major work though which requires a good knowledge of 3D graphics, modelling and tracking.

-Hybrid.
Actually, I think because most of the shots are pretty static, to duplicate this you could get away with just Photoshopping the background plate, compositing in ambient smoke and fog, and then getting someone to rig whatever CG element you'd want in there (like the tank. this would probably be the difficult part). If you're good at Photoshop and grading footage I don't think doing something similar should be a big problem, except you'll have to composite in whatever's in the frame, be it a person, vehicle, etc.
Posted: Sat, 13th Jan 2007, 3:35am

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Bryce007

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Wow. that was Really slick. However, I can't imagine it being too hard to do aside from the 3D work. Infact, I'd bet I could pull that off if given a month or so.
Posted: Sat, 13th Jan 2007, 5:15am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Yeah, I agree whole-heartedly that if you give the main/core aspect of doing that clip to someone else then it'd be easy. Emulating the piece in different ways would probably be faster, what I found to be impressive was that the texture of all the buildings was done entirely within a 3d environment onto 3d Objects which match those of the real ones.

As someone who works in 3D, I respect the high quality this guy has achieved - could I achieve similiar? Probably, though to do exactly what he has would definitely take me a good while. Especially the physics simulation on the vehicle.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sat, 13th Jan 2007, 7:47am

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ben3308

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

...what I found to be impressive was that the texture of all the buildings was done entirely within a 3d environment onto 3d Objects which match those of the real ones.
That's actually what made the clip so interesting, is that they went completely overkill by modeling and tracking the area on the clip, when mostly static camera angles were used. Why not use more moving footage to show off how much work was put into the effect?
Posted: Sat, 13th Jan 2007, 3:34pm

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coldside

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Rating: +1

Back to tommynator, if you were looking to do something similar to this, then photoshop, a compositing program and greenscreen footage shot on a locked tripod is the way to go.

Process-

+Film your actors againt greenscreen as this will be the eaisest way to go. To help sell the realisim of the final composite, add actual debris and junk infront and around the actors.

+Take still photogrpahs to use as your background plates. Make sure you keep the lighting, proportion and perspective the same or very similar to the live action plate. On-set measurments during filming can help alot.

+Color correct the background plate to the dark greys, brown, greens or blues of your apocalyptic world. Possibly increase contrast to get dark shadows with added depth. Writing down these values can help later.

+Manipulate and destroy the background plate using photoshop or a similar product. Add cracks, bullet holes, collapsed walls, destroyed cars, rotting skeletions or whatever your scene calls for. Replacing the sky with an overcast and color corrected one can change the mood extensively.

+Try to stay away from adding 3D elemnts as this will increase the production time and, due to your limited knowledge, possibly take away from the realisim. But if you really need 3d elements then get someone else to make them at this stage. Give them the background plate and greenscreen elements to help them.

+Get stock footage of smoke or shoot your own. Preferably stay away from particles to increase the realisim.

In your compositing software-

+Place your background plate behind your greenscreen elements.

+Key out the greenscreen and color correct the footage to match the background plate. Add, if any, the 3D elemnts behind or infront of the greenscreen footage, depending on the situation as described by the 3D artist.

+Add your layers of smoke ontop of the greenscreen element, color correcting if needed.

+Add sounds of burning, screaming, explosions, gun shots, wind or whatever your shot calls for and your done!


Obvioulsy this is just an overview of how you would do such a shot and will vary slightly with your own work, but hopefully it explains it in a way that you can understand, grasp and visualise eaiser.

Daniel
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 6:21am

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KA Productions

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Nice little Tut Coldside, but yes, I have to say that little clip was amazing. I might try and practice with that, to use in my feature film, so that way I don't have to rely so much on the 3d.(don't worry coldside lol).
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 7:08am

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coldside

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Thats okay. If my work load can be lightened (at least I think thats what you mean), then I can concentrate on the harder, more time consuming stuff.
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 9:42am

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tommynator

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wow thanks allot coldside that really helps

but about a program . i am gonna buy one very soon but can greenscreening been donne whit sony vegas 7
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 12:41pm

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coldside

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Glad to be of some help.

About Vegas, I think it can, but it would be rudamentrey at best. I reccomend looking into something like Adobe AfterEffects www.adobe.com or even FxHomes CompositeLab.

Daniel
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 2:00pm

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tommynator

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i have the trail of vegas so can sombody explain me how i can add a green key to a scène.

thanks
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 3:11pm

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coldside

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Here you go:

http://digitalproducer.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=31596

Its a very good tutorial. Although they use a bluescreen in the example, its eaisly tailored.

And suprisingly the reasults are acceptable.

Daniel

Last edited Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 5:19pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 4:38pm

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tommynator

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thanks coldside you really help me again i woud give you some force if i knew how to do that and if i had some .

so the greenscreening workt really wel but if i just want to ad an effect like smoke or somthing like that then everething turns grey sad
can someone tel me whet i am doing wrong
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 5:04pm

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KA Productions

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coldside wrote:

Thats okay. If my work load can be lightened (at least I think thats what you mean), then I can concentrate on the harder, more time consuming stuff.
Yep that's what i meant.
On the subject, would Microsoft Image editing (i think that is what it is, kinda like photoshop) work?
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 5:08pm

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coldside

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No, it doesn't have the versatiliy and options found in Photoshop.

Daniel
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 5:10pm

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KA Productions

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Damnit... How to get photoshop now....
Posted: Sun, 14th Jan 2007, 5:30pm

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coldside

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Buy a copy.

Anyways:

It is 3:30 in the morning over here in Australia, but thought I'd help anyway smile

thanks coldside you really help me again i woud give you some force if i knew how to do that and if i had some .

so the greenscreening workt really wel but if i just want to ad an effect like smoke or somthing like that then everething turns grey
can someone tel me whet i am doing wrong
Try using the various overlay modes in the Transparency settings dialog brought up by Right Clicking the smoke clip.

Using Luminance, difference, lighten, darken, and other overlay keys may provide different results.


Daniel:) smile
Posted: Wed, 24th Jan 2007, 3:56am

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Big Man

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coldside wrote:

Back to tommynator, if you were looking to do something similar to this, then photoshop, a compositing program and greenscreen footage shot on a locked tripod is the way to go.

Process-

+Film your actors againt greenscreen as this will be the eaisest way to go. To help sell the realisim of the final composite, add actual debris and junk infront and around the actors.

+Take still photogrpahs to use as your background plates. Make sure you keep the lighting, proportion and perspective the same or very similar to the live action plate. On-set measurments during filming can help alot.

+Color correct the background plate to the dark greys, brown, greens or blues of your apocalyptic world. Possibly increase contrast to get dark shadows with added depth. Writing down these values can help later.

+Manipulate and destroy the background plate using photoshop or a similar product. Add cracks, bullet holes, collapsed walls, destroyed cars, rotting skeletions or whatever your scene calls for. Replacing the sky with an overcast and color corrected one can change the mood extensively.

+Try to stay away from adding 3D elemnts as this will increase the production time and, due to your limited knowledge, possibly take away from the realisim. But if you really need 3d elements then get someone else to make them at this stage. Give them the background plate and greenscreen elements to help them.

+Get stock footage of smoke or shoot your own. Preferably stay away from particles to increase the realisim.

In your compositing software-

+Place your background plate behind your greenscreen elements.

+Key out the greenscreen and color correct the footage to match the background plate. Add, if any, the 3D elemnts behind or infront of the greenscreen footage, depending on the situation as described by the 3D artist.

+Add your layers of smoke ontop of the greenscreen element, color correcting if needed.

+Add sounds of burning, screaming, explosions, gun shots, wind or whatever your shot calls for and your done!


Obvioulsy this is just an overview of how you would do such a shot and will vary slightly with your own work, but hopefully it explains it in a way that you can understand, grasp and visualise eaiser.

Daniel
That's very interesting. I think I would be able to do it all, i understand how the programs all work and all. However i run into trouble at "Manipulate and destroy the background plate using photoshop or a similar product. Add cracks, bullet holes, collapsed walls, destroyed cars, rotting skeletions or whatever your scene calls for. Replacing the sky with an overcast and color corrected one can change the mood extensively" i can do cracks, holes, even sky, but how do you blow out windows and walls?