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Scribble presents 'The IInd' production diary!Yay

Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 8:10am

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mercianfilm

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Hi, allow me to introduce my first feature length film 'The IInd', it's already in its pre production stages and most of the concept art for sets has been completed and production on miniatures is well underway!


'The IInd' is set in the early period of the 5th century Britannia. It follows the story of Argillis- a young Legatus commanding the Legio II Avgvsta.
When the majority of the lands the Saxons sought had been conquered they moved to attempt to take the biggest prize of all : Rome. But not being equipped enough they decided first to invade the much weaker defence of Britannia and establish a firm foothold on the island- which they could then attack Rome from.
With this agenda the Saxons struck Britannia- Within weeks most of Caleodnia (Scotland) had been conquered- hearing of this dire threat on the north Argillis gathers what's left of his legion and prepares to head north.
Constant barbaric ambushes have taken its toll on the 4 original legions to be deployed inBritannia and now they are very weak. 1 Legion was wiped out by Boudicca's revolt- the XXth and the VIth have not been heard of for decades.
To combat the threat of being outnumbered Argillis makes a fragile truce with the nativeBritons and marches to Hadrian's wall- the last defence of Britannia- where they can hopefully hold off for a long enough period of time so the innocent can escape to otehr Roman provinces.

Expect ambushes, glory and treachery along the way!!

The above is just a very vague concept idea behind the story, tell me what you think!

Once i get my camcorder sorted i'll start posting some more pics and video diaries!

Status:]
Pre-production:

Script: 100%
concept art- 100%
miniature sets: 10%
costumes: 0%
Set construction: 0%


Production:

Camcorder: Canon XM2
Frame rate: 25fps
Scenes to be shot: 21
Scenes completed: 0
Pick up shots: 0


Post production:
Scenes edited: 0
3D aspects completed: 0
Grading and colour correction: o
Soundtrack and sound effects: 0

Last edited Sat, 18th Aug 2007, 2:50pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 12:47pm

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Balketh

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Sounds great, BUT.

Yes, I have a but.


Did you purposely make it similar to 300 in the ways of numbers of troops, and the direction things look like they're heading?

Just curious... =P
Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 12:57pm

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mercianfilm

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Numbers of the troops? i thought there was only 300 spartans and several greek allies? My legion has around 3000 men in it ( Getting difficult to replenish them to full strength)
Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 1:08pm

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Balketh

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The way you wrote your Synop instantly reminds me of 300. Plus, 3000 is just 300 + an 0.

With this agenda the Saxons struck Britannia- Within weeks most of Caleodnia (Scotland) had been conquered- hearing of this dire threat on the north Argillis gathers what's left of his legion and prepares to head north.

Replace Scotland with the world, Saxons with Persians, Argillis with Leonidas. The only differences. =P

Please, for god's sake, don't take this the wrong way. I'm loving the idea very much, and I'm hoping greatly that you'll make a kickass movie, but I just noticed some similarities.
Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 1:41pm

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Sollthar

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Hehe, okay. I'm working on a similar concept: Loads of people, medieval etc - I'd say I'm pretty experienced, and I'm struggling to make that happen.

So I'm REALLY curious as to how you'll be able to pull that one off... wink
Posted: Sun, 29th Apr 2007, 2:00pm

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mercianfilm

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I get ya point Rogue - the script is nothing like 300! The snyopsis does sound a little like it i guess!

All you need Sollthar is ambition and dedication mate biggrin And we all know you have that! Hopefully i do too!
Posted: Mon, 30th Apr 2007, 3:16pm

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Merrick

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It's good to see that you're really picking up speed on your movie now, Scribble. You better have a lot of friends if you're going to have that many people in your movie. smile When you make the costumes, Don't make too many. Just tell the people to wear clothes that are the same color as the uniforms then use those people in your background. One more thing: if you're going to go through all this trouble to record a movie, I suggest that you use something better than an ordinary camcorder. I'm trying to find a good camera, but so far, I'm completely baffled as to how I'm gonna get one on my budget. The best of luck! smile
Posted: Tue, 1st May 2007, 5:49pm

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mercianfilm

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Thanks for the advice mate biggrin
I Have quite a lot of acting friends (Only school and college ones) who would be glad to help- hoepfully they'll find others too biggrin As for the costumes i want it to be as authentic as possible! So a lot are going to be needed biggrin
The camera i'm having problems with i don't know whether to get the XL2 or the Sony DCR vx2100e...Hmm...Thanks for the comments!

P.S Some of the concept sketches are up for on my website for the miniatures and sets biggrin Be warned! The website is extremely dull as it hasn't got too much on it yet sad here's the link f you're interested!

www.theiind.uk.tp
Posted: Thu, 10th May 2007, 3:52pm

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mercianfilm

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Conept art for most of teh miniature sets is virtually completed now! It took a long time but was incredibly fun! Some of the pictures may be squashed and quite a lot of the mortar/wattle texture on some of the buildings has been lost due to scanning issues...sorry sad

If you'd like to look, click the link below- then go to 'The IInd concept' Just click any of the locations that may interest you.

www.theiind.uk.tp

Note: The warrior and costume concept don't have any images- they're not uploaded yet.

Thanks!
Posted: Tue, 15th May 2007, 7:54am

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mercianfilm

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Well- i've managed to do half of my title- here's a quick render of it if anyone's interested:



it's supposed to be blood....ah well- my first attempt at a logo biggrin
Posted: Tue, 15th May 2007, 7:11pm

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Merrick

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It doesn't look like blood but it looks cool. Sort of like looking through blackness at bloody cement. I can definately imagine a big, shining IInd below that. Sort of like MIB. smile
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 3:39pm

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mercianfilm

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lol thanks biggrin i've done a rough sketch of how it's going to look- remember it's only rough! :



I haven' put the 'ND' bit on it yet sad Not bad for a first attempt though
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 3:49pm

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Merrick

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Just make sure you make the II a bit higher in the real thing.
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 7:46pm

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mercianfilm

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Yeh will do- I've made the 'II' phsyical- e.g out of materials and painted it- just need to get a better camera and then composite it onto that layer. Not a clue how i'm going to make the 'THE' appear- i was thinking like a slash and then a burst of blood and when it lands it forms into 'THE'. Your thoughts?
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 8:05pm

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Merrick

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It all depends on the mood of it. I definately think that the camera should pull back through the center of the II.
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 6:23pm

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mercianfilm

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Woahhhhh this is so freaky! i don't know when you posted that last comment Merrick, but last night i was doign a few practice shots on a handycam and i did exactly that! lol looks good biggrin
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 8:14pm

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Merrick

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Wow freaky! I posted it at about the same time, but you do live in a different time zone from me. biggrin
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 9:02pm

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doppelganger

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Is the movie pronouced The "end" or The "2nd"

Cause I couldnt tell wether it was i's or roman numerals other than that it looks awsome went to the website and the concept art looks pretty awesome can't wait.
Posted: Fri, 18th May 2007, 3:32pm

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mercianfilm

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Wow thanks for the compliments dude! It's the Roman numerals for '2' Yeah (After all it does focus on the 2nd legion, i thought it would look good like that biggrin) Most of teh miniature set concept is virtually done now- just have to do Caerleon- then i can start on the costumes! Some of the sketches take a hell of a long time to do and then the scanner doesn't even pick up the shading!

Anyway, thanks, and i'll keep you updated!
Posted: Fri, 18th May 2007, 10:49pm

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Plainly

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I really like the "The" in the logo!!! It's really awesome! I presonally think that "The" looks like blood a lot, kinda like if it was splahed on some rusty metal.

Just an idea-
Maybe do all the words in blood. Or do "The" in blood, "II" like it is right now, and "nd" in blood, too.

What do you think?

(If you absolutely despise that idea don't be affraid to tell me, by the way - I won't be offended wink)
Posted: Sat, 19th May 2007, 11:52am

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mercianfilm

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Excellent idea! I think i'll try the latter biggrin I was a little stuck on the 'ND' bit...Thanks for that one buddy!
Posted: Sat, 19th May 2007, 12:24pm

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mercianfilm

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Sort of like that?
Posted: Sat, 19th May 2007, 5:43pm

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doppelganger

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The logo looks good but it looks kinda scatterd and random, to make it look less scatterd the placement should be more centerd

___________________THE
_________________IInd

At least thats what I think you might not so do what you think looks good, oh you also might want to make the "nd" the same as "II" it wouldnt seem as random also as said before the "II" look scrunched up together try to make them taller the'll look more important that way.

(sorry for spelling)
Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 3:40pm

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mercianfilm

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Yeh yeh for sure! (Woah...went into a san andreas moment then...) I totally agree with what you say! This was just a rough sample anyway- to see how it'd turn out! Thanks for the positive ideas biggrin
Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 8:40pm

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Plainly

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I think it would look good if you do as RebornProductions said, and maybe make the "nd" smaller? Just an idea... wink

Scribble07 wrote:

Excellent idea! I think i'll try the latter smile I was a little stuck on the 'ND' bit...
Thanks!

Scribble07 wrote:

Thanks for that one buddy!
You're welcome!

-Plainly
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 12:26pm

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mercianfilm

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Excellent! i shall try it soon- i'm a bit busy with exams and concept art biggrin
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 5:02pm

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mercianfilm

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Phew! After a 4 hour non stop sketching marathon i've managed to churn out yet more Caerleon concept art- if you would be so kind to check it out. The new additions are as follows:

Hill street ( One of the city designs)
Roof level view (City design)
Apartment designs 2 - about 12 i think.
My brothers Port design.

I can really start to imagine a very vivid image of the city now! Now...where's that Ebay seller gone who sells polystyrene.....
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 11:49am

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mercianfilm

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Done a few more Caerleon concept art- this time focusing on the slum style apartments.
I wanted a clash of architecture- Roman and well..other. The majority of the buildings in Caerleon have Roman features and are owned by Roman citizens (Born in Rome or had served 25years in the army) so they'd be very grand and solid. Because of the frequent raids on many Briton villages, hundreds have emigrated closer to Legion bases because of the protection they provide. However these villagers only have natural resources and find it very difficult to build any kind of solid apartment. So they've resolved to either build a shack from scratch or- a nic, but illegal idea- build on top of existing apartments. Below are a few examples of some of my work- check out the 'The IInd concept' for more pictures:







The top is an example of a roman villa- the bottom a slum.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:08pm

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mercianfilm

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Well, finally figured out how to widen chainmail after two days of practising! i like the look of the results, below is an example of my first attempt at chainmail:


I'm very pleased with it! yay. I've made a quick tutorial on my site if anyone wants to know how to make chainmail- if they still need it in a year or two Scribble UK would be more than happy to sell left over costumes to anyone wanting them!

sam
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 9:14pm

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mercianfilm

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Ouch....kinda hit a snag with production of the chainmail- i finally learnt the basics after 3 days and was having so much fun linking them i compeltely forget i'd only produced about 3 hundred rings...oops- so- instead of linking i've begun by hacking up more PVC pipes into rings- just another 27 metres of them to go!

On the miniature side of things- i've halted the village construction in favor of making ome Saxon tents- 1 down, 200 more to go!
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 9:21pm

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SilverDragon7

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When are we expecting the script to be finished, and when do we start filmming?
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 12:17pm

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mercianfilm

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Script is finished biggrin the fourth and hopefully final draft is done and spell checked- it needs printing off- but i think i'll use the school's printers there- waste their ink he he.

I've got some interest from a film soundtrack composer! woohoo hopefully he'll stay on with the project- he's interested in seeing a copy of the script so i may send him some snippets from it, and if there's enough requests maybe others biggrin

Filming is hard to pin down at the moment- i have insufficient funds at present for production- only pre-production is going to budget at the moment though i'm getting a full time job as soon as my drama exam is finished this friday! Other than that i can't really comment on that one for you! We hope to be finished before 2009- there's a new cinema opening in our city centre which showcases local talent, we want to try and make it for that! So filming is probably going to start either spring next year, or summer!
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 10:15am

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mercianfilm

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Woohooo! Finally started on some costume concept ( a welcome relief from all the architect concept) at the moment i have completed some design for the following characters:
Argillis
Bruttius
Brennus
Dacien
Jaredius

To view the concepts go to my site, click on 'The IInd' concept- then scroll down to hero costume and broswe through them biggrin

Thanks guys!

I've also mastered my technique of sewing- oh yeah! I've started work on my second vexillium (Flag) for the IInd Augusta legion and it's looking a lot better than the original....now- if i could only do embroidery...
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 6:07pm

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SilverDragon7

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Another update.

I have joined the production team for this film, and we are starting to get in some of the areas the movie will take place in, as in I'm using my 3D program to create the areas.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 6:16pm

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FreeZ

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Sounds good to me smile
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 6:25pm

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mercianfilm

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Good biggrin glad you like it!
Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007, 8:44pm

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Merrick

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You using Blender for all this? unsure
Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007, 8:50pm

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doppelganger

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silver dragon uses vue 6 for enviroments
Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007, 9:21pm

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SilverDragon7

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I think we may use Blender for the bigger battle scenes, but most of it will be Vue 6 xStream (mixed with live action).
Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007, 10:53am

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mercianfilm

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I might be using blender- not too sure- i've been searching other film making forums for a crowd simulator and had a bit of success with people who use 3ds max and cinema 4D (i think it's that one) There's also a dude on here who is fairly interested (GLP productions i think it was i'll have to check me emails- i'm getting too many people confused!)

We'll be compositing live action with agents for obvious reasons - we won't be able to get an entire legion of actors together plus a massive warband of Saxpns because of budget restraints.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 12:49pm

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mercianfilm

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UPDATE: Saxons are here baby! .....well nearly.

Ok! Done a lot more Concept images for my heroes- most notably the oracles, Argillis and some of the Saxons- they are taking a while as i'm finding a job, sixth form and cutting chainmail but it's all good! Below is an example of my most recent one:



To view them, click on my signature- then go to:

The IInd concept. Then to Hero costume concept and browse through the names (I've done up to Ono [bar Sigbert] )

Thankyou!
Sam.

p.s Also! Many thanks to Felipe who rendered the new logo! biggrin Cheers dude!
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 6:29pm

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Plainly

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Cool picture!

Will you put your movie on the fxhome cinema?
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 6:34pm

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mercianfilm

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I certainly hope so! Maybe after a year or so after it's release though. A share of the profits from the film are going to charity so i hope to make a bit for it-then after that i hope to yes!

Sam
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 6:41pm

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Plainly

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Cool. smile I'm looking forward to see it. (If I'm still going on this website when you'll put it here. wink)
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 2:44pm

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mercianfilm

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wow thanks! biggrin pre-prod is going petty slow- but i'm gathering mroe and more materials and appliances that is gradually making the process a lot faster! So once i get more sufficient funds (I only have enough for either all teh costumes- or half the armour at the moment) i can continue to produce some!

Glad to hear someone's interested! biggrin

Sam.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 7:42pm

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mercianfilm

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Ah the truly wonderful thing about filmmaking is that it can be changed at a whim- it is never truly finished until you finish teh final cut- and even then there's still tons for you to do!

I really did think that after tweaking the last bits of the 7th script draft i should be done- but only the other day as i was walking (Well running...sprinting....ok collapsing) with the dog i thought ' Hey wouldn't it be great if Argillis (My main character) had a mother?' Well of course - a bit more additonal material about a character is always good- especially family context.

This got me thinking- why do all baddies have to be bad- and why do all Goodies have to be good? Because they are represented as binary opposites doesn't mean they have to be pure of one thing or the other surely? So, i decided to swing against the tides of cliched characters in my film and make some , fairly, original adjustments to them instead.

Argillis, whilst being the hero and good guy- is still young, naive and easily corrupted- he has a very cocky attitude to serious scenarios and is inept at making the right tactical decisions because of his age.

Basically Argillis is Human- not a super man style, loincloth wearing, goatee wielding, ab flexing macho boy. Human. With Human emotions and reactions.

Good! Now we have the hero sorted- but what about teh bad guys? Can they still be bad...but not evil? Well i thought about comedy- maybe if the villain was slightly comical, albeit black humour, whilst being power mad! Excellent! And so Alric was born- a fat old king who has numerous Saxon minions to do his bidding whilst he cowers behind the massed ranks of his scale armoured Huscarl.Well...he wouldn't want to get his lovely robes muddy would he?
And then on to the next villain. Argillis' mother. Technically nota villain- just awicked, wicked woman. I only added her to the script yesterday! I'm unsure whether her actions on teh film are deliberate because she feels ashamed of her incapable son (Argillis) as he tries to mount a defence- or because she is slightly mad. I 'm not sure! Either way she's a bit mean.

And finally the point of this update- i've nearly finished a miniature set!!!!
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 7:46pm

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WorldFamousFilms

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Miniature Set?

Is this like a small scale model of an actually town or city. So you can do sky shots of some kind?

P.S. This is very interesting to me as well. Has there been any filming yet?
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 7:52pm

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Phileep

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will you be posting any pics of the minature set?
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 7:56pm

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mercianfilm

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It's of a miniature village yeah- for wide shots and some sky shots biggrin It's also to make the live set look larger. I think i've found a possible location for shooting- it's a replica village but it only has around 2 huts- whilst the village in question needs about 20. So some compositing is in order.

Hopefully i can get some pictures up soon. thought they may be bad quality.

Sam

P.S i haven't started filming no- my rough schedule indicates i should be able to start filming by next June/July. Until then it's pre-prod all the way!
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 8:33pm

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WorldFamousFilms

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WOW, thats great. I have another question. Why is it some of the projects going on here are taking so long to get shooting? Is it because theyre feature length, or just a really big budget. You would think a Major Motion Picture Company was making them. smile

Just a question. & maybe there is alot more to it, then script, storyboard, locations, cast, lights camera ACTION!!!

LOL. j/k
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 8:46pm

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SilverDragon7

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Well my feature film is schedualled to be shot next july also (which puts me in a pickel because I also am working on this movie and several others, most of which are this year).

Why it takes so long is basiclly because of having no budget (i.e. if I had a nice budget of maybe 10-20 thousand dollars I could have made this film last month).

With making such big movies, that involve alot props/costumes/sets, it's gonna take a little more time.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 8:52pm

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WorldFamousFilms

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

Well my feature film is schedualled to be shot next july also (which puts me in a pickel because I also am working on this movie and several others, most of which are this year).

Why it takes so long is basiclly because of having no budget (i.e. if I had a nice budget of maybe 10-20 thousand dollars I could have made this film last month).

With making such big movies, that involve alot props/costumes/sets, it's gonna take a little more time.
An thats what I figured, that it was a budget thing. Because money doesn't just fly out of your a**! (And Thank God It Doesn't) And if anything would slow down production it would be money.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 9:05pm

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mercianfilm

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Most cases it's budget yeah- others is because it takes a while to arrange things.

Mines a mixture of both- i'm looking for a job to fund my film, and i need to make around 300 individual costumes and weapons...eek.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 9:15pm

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WorldFamousFilms

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Scribble07 wrote:

Most cases it's budget yeah- others is because it takes a while to arrange things.

Mines a mixture of both- i'm looking for a job to fund my film, and i need to make around 300 individual costumes and weapons...eek.
Got a ballpark figure of how much your project's gonna cost.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 9:23pm

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mercianfilm

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I've put roughly £3000 into each stage- £3000 for pre production, £3000 for production (Including technical stuff and transport) and finally £3000 for post production. Including a margin of £1000.
Posted: Thu, 9th Aug 2007, 9:51pm

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Phileep

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Woah! 9 Grand, thats a hell of alot of money, is this your 1st film?
Posted: Fri, 10th Aug 2007, 12:24am

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SilverDragon7

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Why would it take 3 grand for post? Are you purchasing a bunch of programs and what-not?
Posted: Fri, 10th Aug 2007, 11:09am

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mercianfilm

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yeah i'mhopefulyl buying some and also paying others to help with it as i'm quite incapable at 3D.
Posted: Sat, 18th Aug 2007, 6:44pm

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mercianfilm

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Well after many gruelling decisions, concepts and ideas i think i've possibly found the way around my fort dilemma!

You see the problem was- in the beginning scenes there's a shore fort that gets compeltely annihalted by the invading Saxons- i didn't have the necessary resources and funds to build such a fort only for it to get burnt down so i decided iw ould build a rather large miniature and greenscreen the live actors and motion track it to the miniature.

But- it would beome obvious that it was green screen and look very amateur-ish.

Then after weeks of searching for a solution i came across this:


Perfect!

I realised i was going in the completely wrong direction and so soon i'll be contacting the owners of the lunt fort(When i begin location scouting) and see if there's any chance i can get a few score extra's down there next year to film a siege. I know they've had a few indie films shot tehre already- mostly LOTR fan films.

Then- by compositing footage from this live fort with a miniature replica of the fort (To extend and add barracks and addtional buildings- if you look it only has one- the granary) It could possibly work!

So...basically...Woohoo!

Sam.

P.s Production on the miniature fort is about half way through- i havethe gatehouse built and i'm about to construct the walls- then all that needs to be done is additional micro details have to be added and then painted!
Posted: Sat, 18th Aug 2007, 7:39pm

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SilverDragon7

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Good Luck on that wink... and if youneed any help with compositing... You know where to find me.
Posted: Sun, 19th Aug 2007, 8:18pm

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mercianfilm

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wow thanks! I'll remember yeah! I'm hoping to purchase Visionlab within the next year anyway biggrin
Posted: Wed, 31st Oct 2007, 10:24am

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mercianfilm

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Well after 6 months and 26 days the script is complete to the standard i want it to be! Weighing in at just 81 pagesit should qualify as a feature- once the 'fight' words are physically translated on screen biggrin

It's been fun- yet gruelling- no doubt i'll add yet more to it some time soon (Iwas supposed to have finished in July!) but it now means i can concentrate on costumes and armour biggrin yay!
Posted: Wed, 31st Oct 2007, 5:50pm

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SilverDragon7

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Very cool.
Posted: Thu, 1st Nov 2007, 4:23pm

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mercianfilm

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Just had an idea that i completely avoided during the writing stages of pre-prod- Tapetries! Yep- for the Saxons! I was thinking of ways to define the Saxon culture as beiong proud of their history and trying to display it for generations to come- but not like the Romans - who built solid structures of marble and gold (Saxons were fairly nomadic after all!)

Then i came across a website about their tapestries- which is perfect! This probably makes no sense to any of you whatsoever but i'm really excited about it! However- all that embroidery is a daunting thought- have you ever had the feeling you might have taklen on too much?

Ah well! I'm loving every minute of it!

Sam
Posted: Fri, 2nd Nov 2007, 1:29am

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Merrick

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I honestly think that you should give up making chainmail for all of your actors, it'd take off a huge amount of work.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Nov 2007, 8:08am

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Dead Iris

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Or find more people to do it for you. Buying chain mail can be expensive.
Posted: Fri, 2nd Nov 2007, 9:40am

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mercianfilm

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As i said in the PM Merrick- without the chainmail there'd be no Film-How can i create a historical film without...well the historical bits? There are dozensof films out there- maybe hundreds similiar to my genre that get abused and slated because of the minor inaccuracies- and i really don't want that! I'm enjoying the chainmail- just thought i'd update you is all biggrin
Posted: Sat, 3rd Nov 2007, 7:40pm

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Merrick

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I just meant that you should give it up for the extras and use something that looks similar. I think it's really cool that you're making this all yourself, though.

Edit: This has nothing to do with chainmail, but check your PM, the logo's done
Posted: Sun, 4th Nov 2007, 3:19pm

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mercianfilm

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Yeah i understand what you mean- i just think it's worth putting the extrapaina nd effort into it to make it look authentic.

Sam

P.s Sorry i haven't been on this weekend to check- meeting long lost relatives...They smell of tuna... biggrin