You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

The Moon Miners - script development

Posted: Sun, 6th May 2007, 9:58am

Post 1 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

This topic is for discussing development of the script for the Moon Miners (working title!) idea. All feedback welcome!

It's highly recommended you read the fllowing documents in the order they're listed....


History timeline - rough timeline of important historical events leading up to our story.

Character breakdowns - overview of the 4 characters in the story.

Plot outline: 5th draft - a detailed plot treatment for the story.

SCRIPT DRAFT 3: http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/Terminusv3.1.pdf

Last edited Sat, 17th Nov 2007, 3:04pm; edited 6 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 6th May 2007, 10:39am

Post 2 of 65

Arktic

Force: 9977 | Joined: 10th Nov 2003 | Posts: 2785

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

That's really cool, I like the premise a lot! Sounds like there's a lot of potential there for some really cool looking sequences.

I do have a slight reservation though, I'm not sure if this is just me, but it almost seems as though it's a cautionary health and safety movie, warning people of the perils of not following best practice? I do *really* like the idea, but I'm not sure there's enough of a conflict there to make it really gripping.

Also, and again this is just me, but I think the idea of their bosses being cold, hard and only caring about money is a bit of a cliché in terms of space dramas. It was done very well in Alien, and I think bringing this element into the plot (especially so late on in the film, where it almost comes accross as an 'afterthought') will draw unfavourable comparisons; as essentially you have the same kind of plot - hapless crew get into difficulty in space, they try to fix the problem, and at the end of the day, it turns out the "The Company" are all bastards and only in it for the money. So it might be viewed as Alien... without the alien.

As I say, I do really like the premise, but I just think that the script is missing some other element that would really bring it all together, for me at least. The first thing that springs to mind is rather than just having Peter sacrifice himself for the good of the crew, would it be possible that he maybe gets overcome with the idea of his impending doom, throw in a bit of space dementia, and tries to sabotage the efforts of the two remaining crew members? Or at least, something akin to that, because as much as I do like the idea of majority of the drama coming from the relationships of the characters, I don't think that the power struggle between Kamran and Lin will be enough to keep viewers on the edge of their seats.

That's all just my personal taste, of course, and I do appreciate that it's a great idea. I hope I've not come accross as too harsh!

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Sun, 6th May 2007, 12:10pm

Post 3 of 65

Redhawksrymmer

Force: 18442 | Joined: 19th Aug 2002 | Posts: 2620

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I really like the general story, will probably be great to film with interesting sequences and so on. Will most of the sets be greenscreened or built? And what budget is the movie based around?

It might be useful to have a few short clips in the beginning of the movie explaining the history to the story, based on some of the events in the History PDF.
Posted: Mon, 7th May 2007, 3:08am

Post 4 of 65

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I think Arktic has a good point regarding the cold corporation, perhaps as a plot event it's just too cliche. The idea of space dementia leading Peter to sabotage the other peoples efforts could lead to a less obvious avenue.

I also agree that there isn't enough of a conflict to make it gripping. I may feel different after reading a script, though it feels as though the crew start to argue too quickly for there to be an "us vs the elements" feeling which would really make the atmosphere thicker when alliances start to weaken.

Thinking quickly regarding the ending, Peter could discover an issue regarding the jettison and attempt to sacrifice himself in order to fix it only to have him fail and accidentally save himself as the fault destroys the base. Leaving the ending with him alone on the moon with no way of calling for help. There are a gazillion interesting ways to end it. smile
Posted: Mon, 7th May 2007, 5:21am

Post 5 of 65

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Its a good start. Its always a bit tricky to get a proper feel for a character-driven piece based on a plot outline, but the potential seems like it is there. I'm thinking we might want a little more time to introduce the characters at the very beginning, before the disaster hits, so we can better perceive how their characters change under the subsequent pressure of life-threatening events. Considering the roughness of the plot outline though, that might already be in the plan.

As a way to add more conflict and tension, we could possibly implement the idea of an external threat of unknown origin. In all reality it could be a rescue party from another mining base or sometihng, which saw the meteor shower's impact, but due to all communications being down, the characters can't identify them, and paranoia from their situation leads them to presume the unknown entities showing on their instruments are a threat. Hmm. Doesn't sound that great now that I've written it down.

Another idea which I think could feed the conflict between Lin and Kamran: Don't kill Shepherd right away. If he was badly injured during the accident, and for a short time had just enough communications that he could contact them, without actually being able to communicate anything, it could add motivation and tension to Lin's side of the conflict, as she wants to get him rescued, whereas Kamran is more that ready to presume he's a goner and take over command. Even so, Shepherd is dead by the time they get to him.
Posted: Mon, 7th May 2007, 9:39am

Post 6 of 65

Andreas

Force: 4943 | Joined: 9th Apr 2002 | Posts: 2657

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I really like it and think it has great potential.
I'm a little worried about the scale of the thing, obviously we got great artist who can make great CG sets but while reading the first part when the system goes down the only thing i could see infront of me was total darkness and I somewhat wanted that to continue.

Like i could see how everyone was trapped, Peter Landry was mainly thinking about rescuing Sheppard while Lin and Kamran was more worried about the moon base, but they couldn't see a god damn thing hence it would almost turn into a horror with the threat being the darnkness & ofcourse 'overload'. they would get contact with "the company", and maybe a sign that sheppard was alive - and they would just do everything in their power to fix thing, all in total darkness and in the end. when they done everything they can, the light turns back on they think everything worked out. only the light from like an explotion, or something just going horribly wrong - killing everyone.. maybe not Sheppard, that would be cool..

Anyway, that's what I made out from reading the first Act. Just thought I write that down.
Then it turned out way different but it turned out pretty great anyway. What Axeman said there definitely have to be a larger introduction of the charachters and even more conflict to make the end more emotional.
Posted: Tue, 8th May 2007, 10:12am

Post 7 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Thanks for the feedback guys! Glad that people like it in general at least. This is very much a bare-bones outline - it's primarily just about the story, with some character stuff, but the 'themes' have yet to be worked in fully.

I'll comment on some of the main points raised....

The 'company'/ending too much like Alien franchise?
I don't see this as an issue, really. For a start, there aren't any aliens/monsters/etc in the story, so people won't make the immediate leap to the comparison. Also, the concept of corporations going huge and behaving immorally is a fairly common theme, not just in sci-fi, and I think it's perfectly valid to use it. It's not an idea specific and exclusive to the Alien franchise in any way.

We'll also have a completely different feel and appearance, both visually and in terms of style/tone and set design etc. The refinery epilogue bit shouldn't be reminiscent of the Alien universe, hopefully. Additionally, the company in Alien is a primarily military organisation, rather than a commercial company as we've got.

Verging on being a 'health & safety' video?
If we have that attitude, then surely any movie in which 'something goes wrong' can just be considered a 'health & safety' video? Titanic, Sunshine, 2001, The Terminator, etc etc. I don't think it's an issue - especially as the film won't exactly be presented AT ALL like a H&S vid. smile

Space dementia/sabotage/Peter going nuts/etc
Personally I strongly dislike these suggestions. It takes the story into b-movie territory and introduces 'exciting' action/horror/etc elements for no good reason, and moves everything into far more typical and cliche areas. I don't believe we need hooks like that - I think the setting and character drama will be strong enough, without needing additional devices.

It is a bit intimidating creating a sci-fi story without using some of these ideas, I agree. But I think that will be part of the challenge: to make a great sci-fi flick that DOESN'T need monsters/crazy people/sabotage/etc.

Everyone dies EXCEPT Peter, who is left outside, alone
Seems like an unnecessary change of the plot without any real benefit or point. Could you maybe elaborate on your reasoning behidn this? Otherwise it seems like a total change - might as well not even set it on the moon if we're going to fiddle with entire story chunks. smile But if I've missed the reason behind this suggestion, please fill me in!

Introduce characters BEFORE the first accident
This is the standard, sensible way to do things, of course. As a suggestion it's totally valid, Axeman. However, I think it's also a bit too 'expected' and veers towards the expected 'disaster movie' type format, possibly becoming a bit derivative in the process. Kicking off immediately with the accident enables us to leap straight in without all the usual build-up. I think there's still strong opportunities to show characters and character development (Lin going from corporate, profit-driven obsessive to realising there's more at stake and confronting her own feelings about Shepherd, and Peter's sacrifice, for example).

However, one option to cover both bases would be to use flashbacks. I'm generally against entire flashback scenes, as it's a bit lazy and will also invite immediate comparisons with LOST. However, literal flashback 'flashes' could work nicely - almost like specific flashes of memory. So when Lin first sees Shepherd's dead body, for example, we could have a 2 second flash of a warm scene when they were intimate/friendly etc. Glimpses of a 'better time', without having to resort to full flashbackitus.

I'm thinking that each character could experience one of these 'flashes'. Peter could have his just before the wall of dust hits him, for example. He could flash back to an earlier part of his life, something that is relevant or provides a great insight. Josh suggested him standing on a beach, with a wave crashing over him, for example.

Don't kill Shepherd immediately
I really like this! I'm going to be working this into v3 of the plot, as I think it has lots of potential. Having him injured and dying during the course of the film could work very, very nicely.

I'm going to be working on the plot this afternoon, then hopefully moving towards beginning the script. Will keep everyone posted, and keep comments coming if you have them.
Posted: Tue, 8th May 2007, 10:21am

Post 8 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

That plot and character breakdown reads like the ultimate bastard son of countless space adventure films and books. Alien, Armageddon and ST come to mind particulaly. I can't work out of thats a good thing or not, or whether its intentional or not.

On a finer-grained level, my single biggest gripe is the whole "repatchable circuit board" thing, which is just plain annoying. When electronics break in the shuttle, (modern day) it takes days of ground instruction to fix and the concept of "oh just pull that out there and put it in here" is insultingly simplified, not to mention cliched. Astronauts aren't electricians and miners definitely aren't.

Smaller gripes:

- Characters feel too pigeon-holed and contrived. As if the plot demands that certain types exist simply to further itself. Realistically speaking, anyone in their position would have been vetted to within an inch of their lives and would have a psyche only slightly short of robotic. Hence they'd all be roughly the same person. Some of their beharious would just be unheard of in their profession. Granted, this makes for utterly zero plot, but I'd hope we'd have done better than these archetypes.
- Peter's "awful wonder" death, while beautiful, also feels too familiar.


In general though, vVisually, this has the making of something tear-jerkingly powerful, but I do wonder how well we'd be able to do some of these things. Presumably we'll make a spacesuit, rather than CG it, for authenticity's sake?

Excellent start though, basically. I just hope we can blur some of the blatant influences.
Posted: Tue, 8th May 2007, 2:25pm

Post 9 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Xcession wrote:

That plot and character breakdown reads like the ultimate bastard son of countless space adventure films and books. Alien, Armageddon and ST come to mind particulaly. I can't work out of thats a good thing or not, or whether its intentional or not.
I think the finished product will be VERY different to those three. Alien and Armageddon are both very stylised. While the first half of Alien might be an influence in terms of lighting, set design and the 'people in space doing normal jobs' thing, there are no aliens or scary, creepy stuff, so I think the comparisons will be minimal. As for Armageddon, that's a completely different style of movie, all fluffy and Michael Bay style. I think we're aiming for a far more real kinda feeling - hence no aliens, crazy people, or unlikely action escapades.

On a finer-grained level, my single biggest gripe is the whole "repatchable circuit board" thing, which is just plain annoying. When electronics break in the shuttle, (modern day) it takes days of ground instruction to fix and the concept of "oh just pull that out there and put it in here" is insultingly simplified, not to mention cliched. Astronauts aren't electricians and miners definitely aren't.
These aren't astronauts in the same sense we have today, though. We're talking at least 80 years in the future, by which point space travel is far more 'normal'. Going to work on the moon isn't such an unlikely thing as it is today. These guys are going to have a mixture of skills and be able to know the base inside-out, one way or another. Given the small crew, they're going to have a lot of interchangeable skills.

Having said that, I agree it's over-simplified at the moment. But, then, we're also considering the base in terms of modern science. As long as we design the base in an intelligent manner and extrapolate a believable problem/solution, I think it'll be fine. As you say, it's massively over-simplified in the plot outline.

At the same time, we won't be explaining exactly WHAT Lin does to fix the system. There isn't going to be any lame, Star Trek-style technobabble. The less you explain sci-fi concepts, the more convincing they are, generally speaking.

- Characters feel too pigeon-holed and contrived. As if the plot demands that certain types exist simply to further itself. Realistically speaking, anyone in their position would have been vetted to within an inch of their lives and would have a psyche only slightly short of robotic. Hence they'd all be roughly the same person. Some of their beharious would just be unheard of in their profession.
I'm not so sure. Again, these aren't astronauts. These aren't the 10-or-so people out of the entire human race that get to go into space and do stuff that nobody has done before. This mining operation has been going for 25 years, and exploitation of space has been going on for even longer. Commercialising and industrialisation of space will have been occurring for half a century by the time of our story - it's just a job. They'll be trained to do the job, but it's not going to have the same rigorous screening procedures as a NASA mission or a 'crew have to save the planet!' style plot. There's a bunch of these bases all over the moon, with skilled but otherwise ordinary people working in them.

Granted, this makes for utterly zero plot, but I'd hope we'd have done better than these archetypes.
I don't see a problem with archetypes. It gives viewiers an instant 'in' to the story and characters. In a short film, that's crucial - you need to grab them immediately and give them things they can relate to, before expanding on that and going somewhere interesting with it.

Stereotypes you want to avoid, sure, because that'll just be boring. But having clearly recognisable personality types in the crew I think will serve the story rather than work against it. The interest will be in the details, via good dialogue and character quirks, plus actors that can bring uniqueness to each role.

- Peter's "awful wonder" death, while beautiful, also feels too familiar.
Sunshine's the only thing that springs to mind as being comparable, though very different context. The 'calmness at a moment of sacrifice' thing isn't so much a cliche as an effective theme - it works, so why not use it? Especially when Peter is likely to be the most sympathetic character, someone the audience will like. I think it's more interesting and memorable than having him screaming, terrified, while the flesh is ripped from his bones. smile

In general though, vVisually, this has the making of something tear-jerkingly powerful, but I do wonder how well we'd be able to do some of these things. Presumably we'll make a spacesuit, rather than CG it, for authenticity's sake?
For the exterior scenes we're planning a mixture of greenscreen and quarry-style shooting (enhanced through matte paintings etc). There will be an actual suit, yes.

Two thirds of the film are entirely on the interior base set, so as long as we get that set to a good quality we're looking good. It's the final third that, as you say, will be pretty tough, with the man-on-the-moon shots and specifically the venting/wall of dust, big wide vista shots and the refinery.

We're giving serious thought to what everyone can do on the film as well as scheduling, so that should come together in the next week-or-so, so everyone can focus in on specific areas of the production.

Excellent start though, basically. I just hope we can blur some of the blatant influences.
Yeah, agreed. I think once the detail starts to be written in it'll become far less generic. I also want to really bring in some 'themes' that linger in the mind afterwards, that can be laced throughout the story. It's more about raising questions than actually providing any answers.

Themes that pop into mind immediately would be:

Exploitation of the moon (should it just be left alone?)
Extreme capitalism (profit over all other considerations)
Mega-corporations (it's where everything's headed, so can examine its effect on the world of the future)
Quality of leadership (why are some people good leaders and others not?)
Self sacrifice (why do people do it? why do some people not?)

Anything else?
Posted: Tue, 8th May 2007, 3:17pm

Post 10 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Regarding the "Hotwiring the system", that sounds fine - i'm just keen to avoid the somewhat 'standard' shot, of people pulling circuit boards out of a bank of slots on one wall, and pushing them into a bank on other and somehow ... bingo razz

I also think 80-100 years needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Its not like people were still living in caves back in 1927, so you don't want to add fantastic concepts as lazy plot devices. 80 years may have elapsed since the first transatlantic crossing by plane, but it doesn't mean everyone can be a pilot nowadays: similarly i think they should still be a degree of importance, skill and protocol to the people in this film. In short, I don't want the characters to be like in Space Truckers.

In general i think it would be best to err on the side of modern day not "some time in the future". The sci-fis I feel work, are the ones where technology isn't perfect. It would be easier for the audience to gain a handle on the universe too. The biggest issue which springs to mind, is the moon's gravity: are you going to have them bouncing around like they ought to, or will you add "artificial gravity"?

Peter's death is very I.M.Banks-esque. He seems to kill someone blissfully in every book. I I can't think of any films that use it though, so perhaps its ok.

The archetypes aren't a huge issue for me and I'm happy for them to stay roughly as they are, as long as they don't all deliberately fulfill a role. Roll-based casts, where each person is explicitly needed to overcome some hurdle make my heart sink. It worked for Star Trek but its just a bit tired, not to mention overly convenient.

"I say, Lin, its jolly lucky you're a computer engineer and you haven't died yet, just as all this computer needs rewiring!"
"Ra-ther!"

I think you could find more tension in the knowledge that [the right person] didn't make the important technical fix, so something may or may not work.
Posted: Wed, 9th May 2007, 5:05am

Post 11 of 65

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

Introduce characters BEFORE the first accident
This is the standard, sensible way to do things, of course. As a suggestion it's totally valid, Axeman. However, I think it's also a bit too 'expected' and veers towards the expected 'disaster movie' type format, possibly becoming a bit derivative in the process. Kicking off immediately with the accident enables us to leap straight in without all the usual build-up. I think there's still strong opportunities to show characters and character development (Lin going from corporate, profit-driven obsessive to realising there's more at stake and confronting her own feelings about Shepherd, and Peter's sacrifice, for example).
Well, I'm not going to say this is impossible, and if we can come up with a good way to accomplish it then great, but I think there is a good reason that this is a 'standard' way to go. The audience has to be invested in the characters before something bad happens to them if you want the audience to care. If there is no emotional connection to the characters yet, the best you can hope for in terms of audience response is some excitement at an effects sequence of things going awry. But for a character drama, which is the direction this seems to be heading, the character needs to come first. If something bad happens to someone they know and care about, then viewers 'need' to see them fix it and resolve the situation. Otherwise, its just a popcorn flick.

Then again, maybe the direction you had in mind was to use the plot element of the introductory disaster as a device for revealing character, making it more of a minor thing at first, which gradually reels out of control into something much more serious. Also, I should mention that I don't mean that we need to take ten minutes at the beginning to 'meet the characters' before anything happens. That would be dumb. With your superlative writing skills, I'm sure you and Ashman can come up with some brilliant ways to very quickly establish the characters and engage the audience. But certainly by the end of the sequence, at the point when they are 'screwed', the audience has to care about them enough to want them to overcome the problems. And now I have stated the obvious. smile

Tarn wrote:

However, one option to cover both bases would be to use flashbacks. I'm generally against entire flashback scenes, as it's a bit lazy and will also invite immediate comparisons with LOST. However, literal flashback 'flashes' could work nicely - almost like specific flashes of memory.

Agreed. There is a significant danger inherent in flashbacks, which is that they pull the audience out of the story and remind them that they are watching a film. Avoiding them altogether is never a bad idea, but handled properly they can be quite effective, and I think quick flashes such as you mentioned would work well.

Unrelated question: what sort of rating are we shooting for on this? I noticed a bit of language in the plot treatment, and thought I would mention that I am in favor of keeping this in the PG or PG-13 range, but I also realize that it isn't really my call.

Xcession wrote:

"I say, Lin, its jolly lucky you're a computer engineer and you haven't died yet, just as all this computer needs rewiring!"
"Ra-ther!"
OK. You guys totally have to work that into the script.
Posted: Wed, 9th May 2007, 6:48am

Post 12 of 65

ashman

Force: 4913 | Joined: 10th Sep 2005 | Posts: 904

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I really don't like the idea that we explain who and what the characters are before the event in the opening through flashbacks or any other means. We can't get away with a character dump in the opening as the film isn't feature length, it simply wouldn't work.

The idea of having the explosions and people trying to fix it is to mirror the emotions and situation with the audience. The miners have no idea what the hell is going on and neither should the audience at this point. This event will also act as a hook to grab the attention and draw the audience in once the situation is under control. They are more likely to listen and by perky once the action sequence has finished rather than vice versa.

I'd rather unfold the characters step by step than visually force feeding them a shit load of info in the first act. It just wouldn't work, not for a short of this nature.
Posted: Wed, 9th May 2007, 8:14am

Post 13 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Axeman wrote:

But for a character drama, which is the direction this seems to be heading, the character needs to come first. If something bad happens to someone they know and care about, then viewers 'need' to see them fix it and resolve the situation. Otherwise, its just a popcorn flick.
I agree generally. However, in this case the main problem actually hasn't happened yet - that comes later, after we HAVE got to know the characters. The opening accident is more of a 'hook' to get the audience's attention, after which we spend the large majority of the rest of the film doing quieter character-based stuff.

Then again, maybe the direction you had in mind was to use the plot element of the introductory disaster as a device for revealing character, making it more of a minor thing at first, which gradually reels out of control into something much more serious.
Indeed. The positions everyone is in will help to expose their characters and see how they react. Shepherd being out of action puts them all in a difficult position. Kamran should immediately take charge, except he's stuck in the connecting tube, so is immediately undermined. Lin is left to her own initiative to figure out what to do, and takes pro-active, determined action. Peter remains the most calm and assured of them all, focusing on getting things fixed quickly and efficiently.

Of course, it does all depend on two things: Good writing, and good acting. Fingers crossed we can get both. smile

Unrelated question: what sort of rating are we shooting for on this? I noticed a bit of language in the plot treatment, and thought I would mention that I am in favor of keeping this in the PG or PG-13 range, but I also realize that it isn't really my call.
I'm going to aim for a PG-style rating, though probably the upper end. It should be intense, but there won't be anything gratuitous in it.
Posted: Wed, 9th May 2007, 2:17pm

Post 14 of 65

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Cool. That all sounds logical. And feasable.
Posted: Thu, 10th May 2007, 8:28am

Post 15 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

3rd draft is being worked on, should hopefully have it up in a day or two.

Note that we've also shifted the filming back to October/November in order to give us more time.
Posted: Thu, 10th May 2007, 8:23pm

Post 16 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Right, I thought I'd throw in some of my thoughts too. Obviously, all is based on the plot outline and a proper script might change some things once it's done. *takes deep breath* here we go:

The 'company'/ending too much like Alien franchise?

This WILL be a problem for some people, no matter what you do. Like my mother thinks every action film is "The Terminator", some people will compare all sci fi films to alien. But I don't think the problem is to a degree we should care about. At least not from how the plot outline sounded.

Verging on being a 'health & safety' video?
Can't see that at all

Space dementia/sabotage/Peter going nuts/etc
I'm strongly against any of that. It's a cheap way of grabbing an audiences attention when you believe your script doesn't work imo. Don't! smile

Everyone dies EXCEPT Peter, who is left outside, alone
COULD work, if you want to move away from the whole "evil company" angle and still have the ending to be dramatic and leaving you with bad feeling. If that's an option depends on how well the whole "bad company" thing is being handeld in the final script. At the moment, it COULD be slightly coming from nowhere, but that's to be dealt with later.

Introduce characters BEFORE the first accident
You seem to have settled that. But it's the way you do it: The first accident sets up the SETTING, then come the characters, then you give them a problem to work with and have a big climax. It's still standard as it is, just another one. Works fine that way. Besides, the 15 minute timeframe doesn't really give an option to do it the other way round.
And I really don't like the flashbacks, no matter if they're proper scenes or just 2 second flashes (in fact, I dislike the latter even more) In a 15 Minute shortfilm like this, they just don't fit to me. But maybe I'm wrong.

Characters feel too pigeon-holed and contrived. As if the plot demands that certain types exist simply to further itself.
That's the case in any plot though. You need Archetypes, ever story ever written has them. How OBVIOUS those archetypes appear is a question of good writing, which has yet to be done. smile

We're talking at least 80 years in the future, by which point space travel is far more 'normal'.
I agree with xcession there. Be very careful in falling into sci fi clichees to make something that's been around for 80 years appear "normal". But surely you could have a look at the setup of like a MIR. What can they actually do? I suppose (and I say suppose because I don't know) they can only repair basic stuff and only with guidance from the outside. Even 80 years later I seriously doubt it'll be any different.

The sci-fis I feel work, are the ones where technology isn't perfect.
Yeah, I agree again. But Simon and I already talked about something connected to that - have stuff like big buttons, levers, sounds - maybe even have to pull them twice or so. Technology definately can't be perfect. Look at modern computers? You have LOADS of simple problems on a daily basis, so adding that sense to it will sell the technology on a familiar basis I think. Stuff usually works, but sometimes you need to try twice, hit it etc...
(Also adds depth visually and acting wise, gives the people something to work with)


Peter's "awful wonder" death, while beautiful, also feels too familiar.
heroic sacrifices are the oldest in the book. Yes, it does feel familiar.
I know Tarn entirely disagrees with me on this, but I think wheter it'll feel familiar / misplaced /cheesy / is all in how it's handled. Everything in this plotoutline has already been told a million times before. There's nothing in the entire idea we haven't seen before in other films. So now it's our job to PRESENT it in a way it'll feel different. So people won't notice. wink
Posted: Thu, 10th May 2007, 8:48pm

Post 17 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Sollthar wrote:

We're talking at least 80 years in the future, by which point space travel is far more 'normal'.
I agree with xcession there. Be very careful in falling into sci fi clichees to make something that's been around for 80 years appear "normal". But surely you could have a look at the setup of like a MIR. What can they actually do? I suppose (and I say suppose because I don't know) they can only repair basic stuff and only with guidance from the outside. Even 80 years later I seriously doubt it'll be any different.
Agreed. By normal, I mean that being in space/on the moon isn't anything amazing anymore (except to people like Peter). There will have been hundreds of people exploring and working on the moon by this point in time, compared to the 10-or-so people today.

By 'normal' I do NOT mean 'easy', or 'safe' not at all. I think our story shows that. smile

Peter's "awful wonder" death, while beautiful, also feels too familiar.
heroic sacrifices are the oldest in the book. Yes, it does feel familiar.
I know Tarn entirely disagrees with me on this, but I think wheter it'll feel familiar / misplaced /cheesy / is all in how it's handled. Everything in this plotoutline has already been told a million times before. There's nothing in the entire idea we haven't seen before in other films. So now it's our job to PRESENT it in a way it'll feel different. So people won't notice. wink
No no, I agree with you totally there, sollthar. Not sure why you think I disagree. biggrin
Posted: Fri, 11th May 2007, 9:49am

Post 18 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Regarding the whole "normality" of the moon, its very specific stuff that i'm after in the script, down to the word. I'm keen to avoid at all costs, a script which in any way removes the technical stuff from every-day astronaut life. Its the technical stuff which is the very essence of making this a real story, not some futurisitic bollocks.

The characters themselves will be au fait with space etc, but there are still rules, protocols, procedures.

For example it is important that you don't trivialise landing - which would still be extremely dangerous, requiring precision, timing and take several minutes etc. EVAs wouldn't just be a case of walking into an air-lock, someone giving the thumbs up, a glib remark about back before breakfast, pressing a button and watching their mate float off or some bullshit - it would still be extremely perilous, require endless checking of suit metrics, pressure, suits would still need to be insulated against the cold, bulky, full of electronics etc.

Once on the surface, comms chatter wouldn't be an excuse for some inciteful plot developing conversation about how you always thought Shepard was a good bloke, or some shit: it would be largely silent, with sparse, technical chatter, using appropriate keywords and commands, much the same as any comms traffic.

I'm aware this may be coming off as a rant, but I cannot express how much this film will suck for me, if its not as real as we can possibly make it.
Posted: Fri, 11th May 2007, 10:03am

Post 19 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Xcession wrote:

The characters themselves will be au fait with space etc, but there are still rules, protocols, procedures.
Yeah, that'll play a big part. At the same time, though, it's important not to go into Star Trek technobabble land - even if it's real or mostly real stuff (unlike Trek's crap), it can still be very off-putting to an audience.

I think a good balance to aim for is 'the ER balance'. ER has a tendency to ramble on about random medical terminology that most of its audience has absolutely NO idea about - yet it does it in a way that somehow makes sense, and also doesn't get in the way of character stuff.

For example it is important that you don't trivialise landing - which would still be extremely dangerous, requiring precision, timing and take several minutes etc.
Indeed. This is crucial the plot, as it's half the reason they don't get rescued at the end. If landings were as easy as the Millennium Falcon touching down inside an unstable asteroid, then rescue wouldn't be a problem. Instead, in our story, it's still hugely difficult, hugely complicated and hugely expensive.

EVAs wouldn't just be a case of walking into an air-lock, someone giving the thumbs up, a glib remark about back before breakfast, pressing a button and watching their mate float off or some bullshit - it would still be extremely perilous, require endless checking of suit metrics, pressure, suits would still need to be insulated against the cold, bulky, full of electronics etc.
Indeed. Some of the new aspects being built into v3 of the plot are bringing in more aspects of 'surviving on the moon' that are quite interesting, linked mainly to having Shepherd still alive for a bit, and their subsequent efforts to save him.

Hopefully we'll have the new draft of the plot posted up either Sunday evening or Monday. I think it's going to be a massive improvement, primarily in Act Two.

I'm aware this may be coming off as a rant, but I cannot express how much this film will suck for me, if its not as real as we can possibly make it.
I agree largely. Part of the main appeal is doing a sci-fi story that is very much 'down to Earth' (well, despite being on the moon) - it doesn't have aliens or murderers or space dementia etc. The realism is what will help set it apart from the 'usual' TV and film sci-fi.

We need to find a halfway position whereby the movie is fun and entertaining, while still feeling utterly real and authentic. As I say, 'the ER balance'.
Posted: Fri, 11th May 2007, 10:16am

Post 20 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Cool, just wanted to check we're all on the same page.

The unimaginable dangers of space-travel are the reason why theres so much protocol in real life. Its the existance and importance of both the dangers and the protocol, which I think will make things even more chilling and scary when things go wrong. It'll be all the more poignant.
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 2:56pm

Post 21 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

Ok...so I am trying to hold all of this info in my head and I am convinced it is all going to spill out in a haphazard uncontrolled way. So brace yourselves.

I love a good character piece; I love scifi...whammy! What we have here is the opportunity to make a kick ass short and that's exactly what we are going to do.

From reading your character outlines I have a sneaky suspicion that Shepherd who for me represents the most interesting character on paper is going to be killed off in the beginning of the film leaving behind the irratating on paper probably more so on film Lim and erm, the Turkish bloke (sorry forgot his name). I get that in a stressful situation people behave in strange ways but these two feel more suited to a bickering around the watercooler in some earth bound telesales office. It brings back memories of that play we saw Tarn where by the end the characters were all so annoying you were rubbing your hands in glee at the thought of them being blown up. Also, I appreciate that these are very rough guides but i mention this as a lot of the plots focus is on these two.

As I said I feel that shepherd is the more interesting bloke; a career guy who settled for position of commander on his own piece of spacerust. He is the utmost professional, respected, always for the job and considers maintaining a prof distance to his team as essential for completing this job to schedule.

However times runs on; he loses his impetus and in his: dare I say it boredom he slips up and starts shagging Lim (big age gap....on earth these two would NEVER hook up). Both just desperate for a shag (in Lims case), Shepherd misses the intimacy. Maybe he receives some info from Earth detrimental to the mine mission....detrimental to his crew. he has some kind of tough decision to make breaks it off with Lim and becomes the hard assed Commander once more....with a secret that could mean life or death to his crew. Story continues.....he dies in a routine proceedure for whatever reason. But rather than it being all down to Lim's broken "plasmonic data chips"; it is compounded by the info Shepherd was hiding from his crew which is only revealed in the final moments of the film as the other mining ship cruises on by.

Also, it gives the film a focus (Shepherd) which could then flip to Lim (due to her intimate connection with the Commander). Having a character to empathise with is always a good idea.

Also, I hate that the broken kit is all Lim's fault....if real life is anything to go by problems rarely come from one source...we say at work that if a problem gets missed 3 times by 3 different people then it ends up causing big problems on air. Never is it down to one person as there are so many fail safe proceedures. I like that it could start with Shepherd keeping vital info from his crew; dying and then all hell breaking loose.

There was more....but my hand aches.
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:09pm

Post 22 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

Just had a thought; maybe the info Shepherd receives is test results from some health check he sends back to earth. A heart murmer, some futuristic disease....i dunno....they have been there for years right? Something that has developed in him over time....

Also, I have plans to approach my boss about lending us a location sound guy and kit for the shoot. we would have to pay for his time no doubt; but could spin it to him and say it would be good development for his team. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:13pm

Post 23 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Good ideas and points. I agree that the problem should be down to more than just Lin's 'error'.

In the 3rd draft that Ash and I are working on now, Shepherd survives the opening accident, although not for long. Working in some kind of mystery/relevant plot to do with his character could be interesting, though maybe also difficult given the running time. His final words should probably play quite a major part, though.

Regarding sound - currently we're thinking that on-set sound might not be particularly viable, given the active nature of the set. And on-set sound would likely be unusable - however, I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

What we REALLY need is a studio space in which to build the set. That's currently the biggest problem the production is facing. So if any of your work contacts have any ideas or can help, it'd be great. smile
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:29pm

Post 24 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

And there's more....ok, so Shepherd gets his test results back. You see him analyzing a screen in the mess room and hitting a screensaver as Peter comes overs. You don't know what it is but it seems to be worrying him.

Perhaps, he has a terminal illness and that with the crew compliment going down to 3 the mining operation cannot be done. All 4 ppl are needed to complete the job. Is it worth the Mining companies time to come and retrieve the remaining crew? Shepherd knows this....his crew is doomed to death as he is. Shepherd takes uneccesary risks by going outside the ship (not usually his job....but he knows his death will be a painful one and maintains the premise that the job must continue.....perhaps he sbaotages the ship himself?? So that his crew do not die a slow death after he has gone....) I know sabotage is an old hat plot device....but I love a good sabotage....also the audience will be suprised when they find out the Trusty Commander was the one who destoyed the misson...its like poetry innit? But again in a sense he does it to prevent the suffering of his crew....in some odd way. This is revealed at the end of the film.

Ok, really done now. (This is fun)
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:31pm

Post 25 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

You might also want to play with the 'edit' button at the top right of posts, Aqui, rather than posting a new post each time your brain sparks. razz
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:32pm

Post 26 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

"Regarding sound - currently we're thinking that on-set sound might not be particularly viable, given the active nature of the set. And on-set sound would likely be unusable"

I don't get your meaining? Are we making a silent film? Cuz that will suck. Obviously if the actors have lines of any kind you are gonna need that recorded....post prod sound is another issue. But you are def gonna need a sound recordist. Also, no space here for building a set sorry. wink
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 3:34pm

Post 27 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

It's more that on-set recorded sound will likely be really messy and not really usable as a dialogue track. However, I'm pretty inexperienced in this area, so if you think otherwise that's cool. I was imagining most of our dialogue would need to be done with ADR.

If we can find someone to do sound who can get good results, however, then that's spiffy.
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 6:30pm

Post 28 of 65

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

It's more that on-set recorded sound will likely be really messy and not really usable as a dialogue track. However, I'm pretty inexperienced in this area, so if you think otherwise that's cool. I was imagining most of our dialogue would need to be done with ADR.

If we can find someone to do sound who can get good results, however, then that's spiffy.
I can find you someone who can give you professional results, and then mix it into 5.1.

Depends what things are like on the budget front though, but I definetely wouldnt ever rely on ADR. It'll cost more to get hte acoustics right in post than to actually do it on the day!
Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 9:56pm

Post 29 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

I agree er-no. If you do the whole shoot without recording sound properly you are immediately shooting yourself in the foot and most likely end up wasting everyones time and effort. If you decide afterwards to dub certain pieces of dialogue great...but at least then you have the option. Also, if we are serious about film making then thinking that recording on set sound as a messy task is not going to get us very far.

I have a sneaking suspicion the reason Peter Jackson went with dubbing post prod sound was cuz of the whole being on top of an actual mountain in NZ issue, the sound guy might have stood out a tad. biggrin

In terms of building the set, we need to figure out where the lights, camera and sound person will go....and the actors of course. But thats a long way off at this stage.

Last edited Tue, 15th May 2007, 10:46am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 14th May 2007, 10:12pm

Post 30 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

There's still loads of production questions open Aqui, but before we have at least a first draft of a proper screenplay, it's really little use to be debating most of them.
But yes, I agree. There's many production problems ahead and I myself got quite a number of question marks I will get into once the development of the script is in further stages then at the moment.

So I'm looking forward to a first draft.
Posted: Tue, 15th May 2007, 8:20am

Post 31 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Aqui wrote:

Also, if we are serious about film making then thinking that recording on set sound as a messy task is not going to get us very far.
Well, it worked for Peter Jackson on Lord of the Rings. wink

There's nothing I'd like more than to be able to record a clean audio track from the set, I'm just sceptical about our chances given the inevitable smoke machines and set operators banging and crashing just out of shot. But if we can make it work, then that's fantastic!

Quick update on the script:

Ashley and I have nearly finished v3 of the plot outline. We've made fairly drastic changes to Act 2 which I think vastly improve the flow of the story and make the middle section of the film much more interesting, mainly related to keeping Shepherd around for longer.

We should have it finished and online in the next day or two.
Posted: Tue, 15th May 2007, 10:02am

Post 32 of 65

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

More to the point I'd suggest recording live sound would be of an upmost importance. It's just as important as the video etc etc yadda yadda.

Its more for the sake of on-set professionalism that sound also adds to the contrast of the crew and cast. But as Sollthar said, greenlighting the project is the priority at the moment.
Posted: Tue, 15th May 2007, 10:59am

Post 33 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Yeah, it's not something worth discussing in detail at this point, especially in the script development topic. razz Until we've got a script, and some kind of set concepts, we won't really know the situation.

So yeah - keep an eye out in the next day or two for the new plot file! If people do want to discuss other production elements, it's probably worth bringing it up in new topics or the other existing ones.
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 6:30pm

Post 34 of 65

JackPot

Force: 10109 | Joined: 3rd Oct 2005 | Posts: 384

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I have a suggestion for the plot, as (after reading the newest version) I am a little worried that we are trying to fit to much in to a short space.

From what I remember, the plot is now basically this;

- Base is damaged
- Kamran is stuck in another tube
- Kamran is released
- Try to save sheperd
- Sheperd Dies
- Peter (?) tries to save the payload, realises the woman makes a mistake
- Payload has to be realised and peter(?) dies
- Woman and kamran are not rescued

I think it might work better if the crew were trying to save sheperd and save the payload simulataneously, rather than it being two events one after the other - There may even be a possibilty that it could then be paced in real time this way. So the crew know at the time that saving sheperd may result in the payload being dumped.

I would suggest this means dropping the whole "the woman makes a screw up" thing. Instead the crew try to balance risking loosing the payload with trying to save sheperds life. This would mirror the whole "human life versus profit" theme. It might give the end more impact because the crew decide sheperd is more important than the payload but the 'corporation' choose the payload. Also, the audience will gain more appreciation about how valuable the payload is if they are accessing the risks of saving sheperds life with risking loosing the payload.

I suggest the risk could be to do with the pressure thing after the accident, e.g. by giving sheperd pressure mite make the payload unstable or something.

So I think the plot mite work well as;

- Base is damaged
- Kamran is stuck in another tube
- Kamran is released
- Peter goes outside to acess payload damage
- Kamran and woman argue about risk vs gain about saving sheperd
- They try to save shepperd
- Sheperd dies
- Pressure shift causes payload to be released and peter(?) dies
- Woman and kamran are not rescued

Also, the whole time sheperd is being rescued, he is telling them to save the payload and not worry about him, but only the audience can here him say it, but never realise why unti the epilogue where the ship decides its to costly to rescue the crew.
Posted: Wed, 16th May 2007, 9:35pm

Post 35 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

JackPot wrote:

Also, the whole time sheperd is being rescued, he is telling them to save the payload and not worry about him, but only the audience can here him say it, but never realise why unti the epilogue where the ship decides its to costly to rescue the crew.
Genius.

I really like those suggestions. Will give it a big think!
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 10:58am

Post 36 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

"Also, the whole time sheperd is being rescued, he is telling them to save the payload and not worry about him, but only the audience can here him say it, but never realise why unti the epilogue where the ship decides its to costly to rescue the crew."

I really like this turn of events Jack; are you suggesting that their decision to save Shepherd and risk (and lose) the payload results in the big bad corp abandoning them in the films dying moments?

I like. ;D
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 11:39am

Post 37 of 65

JackPot

Force: 10109 | Joined: 3rd Oct 2005 | Posts: 384

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I really like this turn of events Jack; are you suggesting that their decision to save Shepherd and risk (and lose) the payload results in the big bad corp abandoning them in the films dying moments?
Yeah... Maybe Shepherd knows all along that loosing the payload will result in them not being rescued (maybe he is the only one who knows cos he is the captain). Since he cant comunicate with his team and is badly injured, he cant let them know... The audience will see that Shepherd is trying to tell them to save the payload, but it is not apparent why until the epilogue... He could say stuff like "Dont bother saving me, the payload is more important" - or something ...

The whole time we can cut from him trying to get his mesage across to the others arguing whether his life is worth risking over the personal value to them for saving the payload.

I dunno about the ins and outs smile
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 11:47am

Post 38 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Methods of doing this awesome development:

- comms breaking up, comes through as crackles, and the occasional words "save" and "me" from the phrase "you must save the payload, forget about me" etc.

- shepard is in a vacuum, so nothing can be heard

- if it involves banging fruitlessly on a thick door, looking through a slim glass window to where the crew are attempting to save him, that would be good too.

Its so cliched, but so right.
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 12:10pm

Post 39 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

DRAMATIC IRONY TO THE MAX
Posted: Thu, 17th May 2007, 12:28pm

Post 40 of 65

ashman

Force: 4913 | Joined: 10th Sep 2005 | Posts: 904

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I LIKE IT!!

Will go through all the ideas with Tarn. Hopefully we can get these fleshed out tonight and on paper.

Que Dramatic music!
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 7:12pm

Post 41 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

RIGHT! Here's v5 of the plot file, with all the new structural elements in place and Shepherd not dying immediately.

Almost all of it has been completely re-written. Due to multiple edits there might be plot holes here and there, or random bits left over from previous drafts, so let us know if you spot them.

Otherwise, both me and Ash think this is much, much stronger structurally (nice one Jack).

http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/PlotV5.pdf
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 9:50am

Post 42 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Perhaps its the way you've written it, but theres seems to be a large chunk of nothing happening.

The film starts with the meteor shower, which should be awesome, and it ends with the implosion and a cliff-hangar, which should be awesome too.

The middle part - The Fix, Aftermath (and to a lesser extent, Shepherd) - seems to just be people fretting, patching, tweaking, computing and discussing. Whats the backdrop? What makes it tense? Other than Shepherd's dwindling life signs, your description of events seems a tad over-technical and a little boring, to be honest.

Like I say though, this is only the outline, not the script, but it does feel like a lot of effort has gone into setting up technically plausible reasons for X, Y and Z, but without making those setups interesting.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 9:55am

Post 43 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Xcession wrote:

Perhaps its the way you've written it, but theres seems to be a great deal of nothing happening.
I'd say the opposite. There's a huge amount going on. Remember this is meant to fit into about 10 minutes, we're not talking a long running time.

The plot outline probably isn't scintillating reading. It's not meant to function as an exciting short story.

I can see huge potential for excitement, tension, emotional scenes and a lot of twisty turny changes of pace and direction. Maybe we didn't get that over in the outline very well, but I'm confident about the script itself.

Bear in mind that the length of description in the outline doesn't necessarily reflect the length of that particular part of the film.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 10:14am

Post 44 of 65

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

Yeah thats fine, its just that the amount of detail you put into describing their discussions, not their doings, worried me a little.

I realise the outline is just the skeleton on which to hang the real meaty bits though. I'm just keen to ensure the meat is appropriately paced.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 10:40am

Post 45 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I like the new additions! Well done Jack, good suggestion. And well worked out Tarn and Ashman!

I also don't think there's nothing happening. There's plenty of drama in there, if even the story arc itself is rather simple.

However, I do have a certain reservation. To me, while reading it has a slight feeling of "zapping in on a sci fi film just for the climax at the end", if you know what I mean. The whole thing feels like it's the final minutes of a feature film - with characters and locations already established.

While reading it, I was trying to figure out how to time the whole thing. It seems to have to be pretty fast paced to fit in those 10 to 15 minutes. As the climax of a longer story, that would be no problem. But as a standalone story, my only fear with it is that it will run by too fast. And seem a bit random. There's loads of moments you could rush by if everything was already established - but kinda can't when they have to be established while you're dealing with them.

If you chose not to take the time to establish the "feel", the locations with slower, longer shots, moments of silence etc, I see the danger of it all rushing by and missing opportunity to have an impact as more as a fast paced little action thing. And if you chose to take the time to establish that, I see the danger of it bursting the 10 to 15 minute limits.

At least the way it's written right now I do.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 12:06pm

Post 46 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Sollthar wrote:

However, I do have a certain reservation. To me, while reading it has a slight feeling of "zapping in on a sci fi film just for the climax at the end", if you know what I mean. The whole thing feels like it's the final minutes of a feature film - with characters and locations already established.
Indeed. That's kinda what I'm aiming for. I don't see that as a problem really, as long as we gets lots of clever backstory hints in and create some really vivid characters.

While reading it, I was trying to figure out how to time the whole thing. It seems to have to be pretty fast paced to fit in those 10 to 15 minutes. As the climax of a longer story, that would be no problem. But as a standalone story, my only fear with it is that it will run by too fast. And seem a bit random.
I'm not worried about it feeling random, but I am slightly concerned about running time. It's hard to tell until a script is written really - something I'm hoping to get started on this weekend.

If you chose not to take the time to establish the "feel", the locations with slower, longer shots, moments of silence etc, I see the danger of it all rushing by and missing opportunity to have an impact as more as a fast paced little action thing.
The second act has been structured to hopefully provide lots of those slower moments, where we can get into character and story. Hopefully the balance will work; we'll see.

At least the way it's written right now I do.
Yeah, the plot outline is very rough and doesn't really represent how long each section will be.
Posted: Sat, 26th May 2007, 8:53am

Post 47 of 65

JackPot

Force: 10109 | Joined: 3rd Oct 2005 | Posts: 384

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

That version is certainly a big step up, well done guys.

I think this version could fit into 15 mins.

But I think that sollthar has a valid point about not having enough time to develop the characters/setting in that time. I have a few suggestions that may free up some more time for this purpose, whilst still keeping the three themes I gather we are following; Clostrophobia, undermining authority, profit vs human life

Peter is outside from the start
Maybe Peter should be the one who sees the meteor shower hitting the base at the start, on his way back from fixing mining equipment or something (as he is the mechanicy/ engineer person from what I gather). He could be thrown back from the blast [into the machinery he was fixing so he doesnt float into space], but just be shaken up.

Peter starting outside makes it quicker for lin/kamran/peter to start up the whole payload vs shepherd - profit vs human life arguement.

I understand that this will remove the impact of "definite shift from claustrophobia of rest of the film to something new" sensation that you are trying to acheive when perter steps outside. However, maybe we could do it the other way round. i.e. we start with loads of space, then shift into a clostrophobic state after the accident when focusing on Shepherd - same impact but reversed.

As the plot seems to revolve around lin/kamrans relationship, and shepherd trying to tell them to save the payload, I dont see much point of peter being inside at the start, he doesnt seem to bring much to the explanation of those relationships.

We can also drop the bit where Peter is checking the schematics, maybe he could communicate with lin who checks the schematics instead, from this he decides to go directly check out the damages.

Shepherd is the one in the tube, not kamran
From my understanding the tube holds two purposes; to show lin undermining authority of kamran, and to give a feeling of clostrophobia. I think we can show the lin undermining kamran theme in other ways such as in decision making etc and other clever ashy/tarny charactery stuff.

Perhaps we will get a higher sence of clostrophobia if shepherd is stuck in a tube, rather than a room. Its probably more clostrophobic dying, in a tiny tube, and not being able to communicate with the others, than in a room.

So peherps shepherd is the one in the tube, and kamran and lin are already together during the blast, in a room a couple of 'tubes' away from shepherd. This will save time by dropping the kamran stuck in the tube part from the plot, but still produce clostrophobia feeling.

Maybe shepherd was on his way back from the oxygeny place (which gets pummled), because he heard lin and kamran arguing. He can still see the blast of meteors from his tiny window in the tube, then the tube gets damaged and doors lock etc...

Shepherd/Audience knows the big picture
Another thought I had, do to with the whole "Shepherd knows the big picture" thing was; what if shepherd could see the silo and peter from his tube window. It may be a good perpective to see the direct consequences of his rescue attempt were having on the buckling of the silo as the audience.

To take some of the emphasis off lin and kamran doing fixy/running about stuff that worried xcession, I think the film should be set mostly from shepherds perspective. I.e. he can see and hear eveything that going - all comms. But frustratingly cant do anything about it, adding to the clostrophobic theme.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 3:11pm

Post 48 of 65

Aqui

Force: 0 | Joined: 24th Apr 2007 | Posts: 16

Member

nice job guys, its def getting there.

I have a few points to make and will keep them as brief as possible. Apologies if I sound like i am repeating the comments of anyone who has come before me.

Firstly is the issue of character introductions and development. I still feel like Shepherd is the most interesting character and am glad that his role and screen time has been upped. I appreciate the intense action at the top of the film but as we know often the problem with this for audiences is sympathising with characters we have not yet met or know anything of. So some clever and inciteful pieces of dialogue and acting would be key to ensuring this works. Shepherd is the first guy we see and how would you feel about the film being based on his pov??

Act 1 is the action and the set up and despite me skim reading the scifi tech bits all looks like it could "look" really cool (again, the only real issue here for me is char intros and one of pov)

Act 2 - "At the same time Peter is going over the base equipment...checking for damage (good opportunity to show base layout etc)" Honestly, I feel this is too late to show the base locales...this should be achieved much higher in the run order and interwoven with the action.

at the end of the second act the last three paragraphs appear to me to be the entire crux of the film...in fact I feel this is the film contained in these few paragraphs. Also, I am convinced this film doesn't really need the peter character. I don't really see why he's there at all, except to kill off tbh. He is the no name trekkie actor in the red suit as far as i see.

In the Lunar finale there is the sentence "Shepherd tries to tell them not to vent the payload...Kamran, not facing the window, doesn;t see Shepherds protestations" is this an analogy or is it really going to be this? Sounds a bit cheesy to me.

Also, in light of the film, the ending seems really really depressing. Which i guess is the point....can we not have them all hitch a lift on a rainbow back to earth to live out their days as heroes?? What do you mean you don't like that idea?!?!

Last edited Thu, 31st May 2007, 10:39am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 3:19pm

Post 49 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

The opening 'action bit' is likely to be very, very quick. It's like prodding the audience in the face with a sharp stick to get their attention. It very quickly shifts into getting to know the characters, with things calming down and seeing how they're reacting.

I'm starting to dabble with the script now, will keep you all posted.....
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 10:48am

Post 50 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Aqui wrote:

Act 2 - "At the same time Peter is going over the base equipment...checking for damage (good opportunity to show base layout etc)" Honestly, I feel this is too late to show the base locales...this should be achieved much higher in the run order and interwoven with the action.
Act 1 will probably only take up about a minute on-screen. Act 2 begins really quickly, so we'll get an overview of how the base works very quickly.

Also, I am convinced this film doesn't really need the peter character. I don't really see why he's there at all, except to kill off tbh. He is the no name trekkie actor in the red suit as far as i see.
I disagree completely. He's the 'heart' of the film, if anything. He's the audience's conscience, the person they are most likely to associate with. He's also the least 'broken' character and the most likely to get the job done. He's the 'good guy', who is still prepared to put his life on the line for the others, despite them being gits.

In the Lunar finale there is the sentence "Shepherd tries to tell them not to vent the payload...Kamran, not facing the window, doesn;t see Shepherds protestations" is this an analogy or is it really going to be this? Sounds a bit cheesy to me.
No idea yet really, depends on the script and then on how it's shot. But there should be a general theme of mis-communication running through the film, I think.

Also, in light of the film, the ending seems really really depressing. Which i guess is the point....can we not have them all hitch a lift on a rainbow back to earth to live out their days as heroes?? What do you mean you don't like that idea?!?!
smile I'm not sure it'll be depressing so much as a bit scary and intimidating, with the two survivors alone in this malfunctioning base. In almost approaches the horror genre in its closing, I suppose. I think there'll be lots of different reactions to the ending.
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 12:20pm

Post 51 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

How is the development coming? Been 2 weeks since the last update, as I recall.

So, what's happening? smile
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 12:38pm

Post 52 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I've done some work on the actual script, but haven't had much time due to our current deadlines and other projects. However, this Wednesday me and Ash are having a big session.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007, 12:54pm

Post 53 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Latest update:

First draft of the script is complete. We held a read-through last night which went well, got lots of feedback which will go into a second draft. All-in-all, it's looking good so far though.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007, 1:06pm

Post 54 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

So, any plans on when to post the draft?
Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007, 1:09pm

Post 55 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Either the 2nd (if it goes well) or the 3rd (if it doesn't!) drafts will be put up for everyone to take a look at.
Posted: Tue, 28th Aug 2007, 8:41am

Post 56 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Right, draft 2 of the script is now online for people to take a look at.

The script can be downloaded here:

http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/Terminusv2.pdf
(now updated with scene numbers)

Let us know what you think.

Last edited Thu, 13th Sep 2007, 8:44am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2007, 9:22am

Post 57 of 65

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Now I've finally got my internet back I can respond to your screenplay Tarn. Apologies for the long wait, I did read it the week you put it online of course. smile

First of all, I really like it. The whole setup still seems like a good idea now it's written out in detail. There's a lot of interesting moments and aspects in it. For a 15 minute movie, it's obviously way too long though. biggrin


- I really like the first scene. It's quick and to the point and lands with the action and excitement immediately and should setup the attention well. Leaves enough space to setup the entire location too with some exterior shots and the first look at one of the more complex interior sets.

- Scene 2 starts great, with all the characters clearly introducing their status. Kamram is way over his head, peter remains calm and knows how to handle things and Lin handles things (I'd leave the "now?" "wait" moment in in any case. It's a great setup).
Then the dialogue is too long and definately needs to shorten down. While the sideremarks give details about the characters, there's simply not enough running time for them. I'd say this whole scene needs to be 50% less in dialogue and only feature necessary plot and character information: Everythings automated, Shepert doesn't respond, Payload is important and appears undamaged.
(I like the "god" remark by Kamram at the end. It setups this ominous superior agency really well and is funny. If possible, leave that in somehow)

- Nothing to say about scene 3. Sounds fine as it is and offers some brilliant visual possibilities with smoke, sparks and flickering lights. smile

- The next two scenes (Recreation Module and Oxygen module) are great as they are. I like the change of perspective on the dialogue. This could be used to save time. While the dialogue Peter/Kamran/Lin takes place, you could hear parts of it through comms while focusing on Sheperd. Obviously, the lines need to be cut down here as well, but not that much.

- The next longer dialogue scene is much too long. Having the characters argue is good and should be kept, though far less verbal. They're also mostly repeating information the audience already knows if we can show sheperds and the bases condition visually. There's no need to do much sci-fi style explaining in the dialogue. Having that base message is good, that should definately be kept! But the rest then needs to setup way more quickly. Only have the say what's really necessary and try to fit the conflicts in between the lines rather then actually saying them, like "we have no time".

- The short scene between Kamran and Sheperd is great. I think it's a good moment to "lighten things up a little" with sheperds ironic reaction. This scene could do with something the audience can positively relate to, if everything is tension tension tension it won't work.

- The next few scenes that deal with the new problem I'll connect: They're good, but filled with WAY too much dialogue ballast. Witty replies to every lines just make it all unecessarily longer, they're not important. I think we can establish the characters relationship through the way the lines are said and don't need to explicitly have them spoken out loud. I believe it's a classic state of underestimating the audience. The characters positions and relationships towards each other should be established and clear right now and don't need to be reinforced in every second line. The scene is good apart from being too long.
Also, the whole 8.4 and 3.2 thing is a nice technical detail, but honestly, I'd leave it all out. Just have her explain the problem as short as possible. Going into all this kind of sci-fi talk really takes up running time for nothing and breaks an otherwise tense scene.The scene should play faster and simpler: Problem display, Lin sees it, explains it to Peter, It becomes obvious the payload is in danger, Kamran gets nervous, Peter finds a dangerous solution, Sheperd might have to die, done.

- That next short scene between Peter and Sheperd is very important (Page 17 top). When he says "sorry" to sheperd is probably the most imtimate moment we had yet, dramatically, it's important not to rush by this and give this time. Maybe even expand it a little, it's a different sort of emotion and outweights all the tension and shouting we had so far. There needs to be calm here.

- The following arising argument about who's to blame is great, despite again being too long. But keep the essential argument intact, it's a good counterweight to the above calm moment again and sets up the characters new positions nicely.

- The following two scenes with Lin and Peter repeating the problem etc are unecessary i believe. Honestly, I'd leave them out and go straight to the next one. We know sheperds in danger, we've heard AND seen it. And after a "Fade to Black" you can easily do a time jump editing wise to where Peter already wears his suit and is full in suit.

- I'm also not sure about the following scene between Kamram and Lin. It's just another argument raising up concerning points that seem in no direct relevance to what's happening and therefore appear made up and forced to me. Also it seems a break of character. I don't know, this scene just felt pretty unconnected to the rest. (Especially the "you couldn't drop him fast enough" part)
They need something else to fight about, if they even need to fight again. If you wan't to add a relationship in there, which could work, I think it should be between Lin and Sheperd and them only. You can also preestablish that acting wise in some of the scenes before. The problem needs to be simpler in any way. If Lin and Sheperd have a relationship that might compromise Lin's decisionmaking in Kamran's eyes, that's enough for a short scene imo and feels more connected to the situation at hand.

- The next pair of scenes with the conflict about ejecting the payload is great. Again, lines need to be shortened drastically, but what is there is good and necessary to set up the end as a belevable and shocking consequence.
I say what can be lost entirely is all the conflict about Kamram ordering Peter to die basically. This can be dealt with acting wise with looks, maybe one GOOD line. Done. Maybe give Kamran an internal conflict the actor can work with, but less lines.
The back and forth between Peter and Lin is wayyy too long as well, have him be more upfront about what he's going to do so they need less arguing.

- I do love the whole piece of paper idea. That is a very tense moment and brilliantly worked out dramatically. "Do not vent" need to be calm, sounds need to go for a second, then Full on with the silos opening up. I love it! smile
I'd say make less of a drama of sheperds death though, with all the tension beforehand, the audience won't buy into just another death that much to exploit it so much. Keep his actual death shorter dramatically, but emphasize on that letter, it has by far the greater impact on the audience I bet.

- The ending works! And it's extremely mean. smile




These are my initial thoughts on the second draft of the screenplay. I like a lot of what's there already. Some of my initial reservations are gone. I think it could work really well as a standalone piece.

Good work Tarn
Posted: Wed, 12th Sep 2007, 10:07am

Post 58 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Brilliant feedback sollthar, thanks! I agree with everything you say and will work on all that for the 3rd draft - the main target of which will be to reduce the running time considerably.

Anybody else had time to read it yet?
Posted: Thu, 13th Sep 2007, 8:44am

Post 59 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I've updated the script so that it now includes scene numbering, which should make it easier to discuss specific areas.

http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/Terminusv2.pdf
Posted: Fri, 14th Sep 2007, 3:46am

Post 60 of 65

Garrison

Force: 5404 | Joined: 9th Mar 2006 | Posts: 1530

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I read it today and I really like what was on paper. I won't/can't say much overall because writing is not my strong point, and there is a wealth of good writing and description here.

I would have to agree that there are parts in the arguments that could be shortened for my taste though.

That's really all I can "see" outside of what looks like a solid short here. Looking forward to the updated version.
Posted: Tue, 25th Sep 2007, 4:08pm

Post 61 of 65

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

At current the only immediate thing I have to add is in regard to the ending. The current fade to black just doesn't feel like it gives the message of isolation that perhaps it should. Some form of procedural back-pan to a wide shot of the moon from space, like a stuttered zooming out until the planet is in view and then a fade to black?

More work, but... smile

-Hybrid.
Posted: Fri, 26th Oct 2007, 12:31pm

Post 62 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Draft 3 of Terminus:

http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/Terminusv3.pdf

Feedback welcome.
Posted: Wed, 7th Nov 2007, 9:28pm

Post 63 of 65

Andreas

Force: 4943 | Joined: 9th Apr 2002 | Posts: 2657

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Hey buds.
Great read Tarn! Script it turning out fantastic! Only read it once sofar, a few things I thought I could share.

First of all, the first Message from the refinery is 5+ pages after the first accident. The second and final is just a minute after the silos was opened. Obviously having the first message earlier would kindof ruin the suspense. But maybe it should be heard when all the powers are back on?


KAMRAN (CONT’D)
Not like this, you son of a
bitch. Breathe, you bastard!

For me it's more one of those moments that should be told by someones look on their face. And that piece of dialoge feels very cliché.


REFINERY
...is now outside
monthly budget. Financial
viability of project now dropped
below accepted values.

Just thought about this last and very important messege. Reading it the first time I was not fond at all over the monthly budge. Surely it all comes down to money, but couldn't it be said in another way. More automated computer?

Loved the script, gotto run now!

Andy
Posted: Sat, 17th Nov 2007, 3:04pm

Post 64 of 65

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Slightly adjusted version (no major changes from v3):

http://tarn.fxhome.com/moonminers/Terminusv3.1.pdf

Thanks for the comments Andreas!! Will take a close look at them ASAP...
Posted: Sat, 1st Dec 2007, 2:18am

Post 65 of 65

er-no

Force: 9531 | Joined: 24th Sep 2002 | Posts: 3964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

'The
chances of the flare happening at
the samae time are miniscule.'

Same?