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Which to use first?

Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 7:03am

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Force: 0 | Joined: 5th Mar 2007 | Posts: 17

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Do you use Compositelab first or the effects?
Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 8:08am

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Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

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Unfortunately I'm going to have to answer that I use both at the same time, with VisionLab smile

However, it makes more sense to compose your shots elements with Composite Lab before you add the effects as MuzzleFlashes, LightSabers and Particle effects are tricky to rotoscope onto unfinalised video scenes. Keep in mind that depending on the situation this can change.

Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 8:14am

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Force: 2726 | Joined: 4th Jun 2004 | Posts: 933

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Although I only have EffectsLab, I would use VisionLab if I could because you can turn certain layers, effects and compositing stuff off to see just the one that you are working on at the moment.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 1:13pm

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Force: 2182 | Joined: 10th May 2007 | Posts: 1376

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Compositelab should be ran first before effects lab. What if you need a blueish muzzle flash and then try to run a color difference keyer on the background.
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 2:35pm

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Force: 2199 | Joined: 9th Aug 2005 | Posts: 855

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Rockfilmers wrote:

Compositelab should be ran first before effects lab. What if you need a blueish muzzle flash and then try to run a color difference keyer on the background.
Yea well what if you try to greenscreen a lightsaber fight, and then can't see the blades when you import to effectslab? things like fast moving lightsaber blades are often lost in keying, especially with a cheaper camera or greenscreen.

Truth is, its all a tradeoff. There are times when you'll use one first or the other first, and niether way is easy. Its especially hard if you have elab and clab lite, because pro allows for alpha export.

I would say that as a general rule, when your doing things like animation and greescreening, clab, to a point, should come first. When your grading, clab should almost always come last.

If i were to greenscreen a lightsaber fight, how would i do it in elab and clad lite? Well, when you key out the green you often lose the lightsaber props when they move fast. Exporting to elab and trying to roto would be very very hard and counterproductive.

I would first do a basic key just as reference. Then, i would animate the greenscreen layer as i want it to move for that shot. Once everything was perfect, except for grading and a cleaner key (actually you could perfect the key now but you dont have to), i would TURN OFF the Color Difference filter. Now i would have the greenscreen clip, with all the green and all the lightsaber props fully visible, animated as if the greenscreen filter were turned on. Now save your project, and render your project. import in elab.

Now i would roto all the lightsabers i want to use. I would then TURN OFF your greenscreen footage layer and render the lightsabers over black.

Now i would import this into your old clab project with the "add" setting. You might want to duplicate teh lightsaber footage to make it appear strong. Turn your greenscreen filter back on.

You now have your greenscreen footage, fully keyed, with lightsabers perfectly rotoed. is it complicated? oh yea. Is it possible? Yea, i've done it before i got vlab.

So, basically what i'm trying to say is, it depends. I definitly see that many people cannot afford vlab, i count my self very very lucky to have been able to get it.
Posted: Tue, 29th May 2007, 6:42pm

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Force: 1905 | Joined: 24th Feb 2006 | Posts: 266

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Even if you did do a greenscreen and couldn't see your lightsaber blades, you could just make a mask to keep the lightsaber blades in the shot. However, this would include rotoscoping the blades twice, in clab and then again in elab.