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Stereo or surround?

Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 5:25pm

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Merrick

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Hello. I just wanted to know the answers to a few queshtions abouth surround sound. First and foremost, if you play stereo sound on a surround system, will it be changed into surround? Also, if I will be using mono and stereo sounds, should I try to mix them into surround? If so, does anyone know of a free or cheap program that mixes surround?
Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 5:37pm

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NickF

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Merrick World wrote:

Hello.
Hi

Merrick World wrote:

I just wanted to know the answers to a few queshtions abouth surround sound. First and foremost, if you play stereo sound on a surround system, will it be changed into surround?
I believe that the sound will come out of all the speakers but the sound at the back-left will be the same at the front-left.

Merrick World wrote:

Also, if I will be using mono and stereo sounds, should I try to mix them into surround?
It's really up to you if you want surround sound or not. Most of the time you can get away with stereo sound, but if you really think you need it and you have the time I say go for it.

Merrick World wrote:

If so, does anyone know of a free or cheap program that mixes surround?
Try your NLE
Posted: Sun, 20th May 2007, 5:41pm

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davlin

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If you play stereo on surround system you will NOT get surround sound.
Surround sound is a mix of at least 6 mono channels which includes
a sub bass channel......fantastic for those fear trembles that we hears so often in movies.
As far as I'm aware there are no freebie software for making your own 5.1 sound tracks......I use "Surcode" in Premiere for my 5.1.
I would like to add that 5.1 sound on your movies is a sheer delight
to listen to......explosions from all over the place....lol

www.davlin_studio.co.uk
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 11:15am

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petet2

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Most surround sound amps will have settings to mix a stereo sound track as a mock surround sound. Sometimes it sounds ok sometimes it sounds dreadful!

Also if you use the Dolby Prologic surround sound setting (rather than Dolby Digital) you will get some sounds coming from your rear speakers. Prologic was the surround sound system used on video tapes and other non-digital media. The rear channel is mono and limited in frequency range but still gives some surround effect. We all thought it was great before we heard Dolby Digital at home with the advent of dvds.

There are a number of low budget video editors that have 5.1 capability. I think Pinnacle Studio does and possibly the Video Studio software from Ulead?
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 4:21pm

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davlin

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Yeah....I remember my first Yamaha surround amp...I think it was the first of the home cinema amps at that time even before "prologic"showed its face.....I thought I was in heaven when I first heard it.LOL.
Now of course our dolby dig 5.1 and others are absolutely amazing
and I cannot over stress that if you can get 5.1 on your home movies it really does add magic.
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 6:05pm

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Merrick

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davlin wrote:

I use "Surcode" in Premiere for my 5.1.
I have Premere Elements but the user's guide says that it will only edit stereo. Do you have Premiere Pro, or can I do suround in Elements 2.0?

petet2 wrote:

Most surround sound amps will have settings to mix a stereo sound track as a mock surround sound. Sometimes it sounds ok sometimes it sounds dreadful!
What do you mean by "mock surround sound"? Does the stereo get decoded into surround or something?
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 6:37pm

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davlin

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I use prem pro not sure about elements...i don't think it does though.
Petet2 means a kind of psuedo surround effect which is sounds coming out of all speakers but not true surround were sounds are directed to specific speakers at specific times.
I wish I could help you in your endeavours for surround sound but there are no short cuts I'm afraid.
If you can get your hands on an older version of prem pro or uleads
editing systems which will handle 5.1 then you'll be all guns blazing
all over the place....hehe.
Not many people think that 5.1 is very important in hobby work but I
disagree and I'm pleased that you are trying to set it up.
Sorry if it looks a bit of a pain to get sorted but goodluck.
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 7:31pm

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Merrick

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Yeah, my videos do that fake - surround thing when I play them. To me it sounds almost exactly like stereo. I agree with you in that surround sound is very important. Especially for action movies - like mine. biggrin If anyone knows of a program that just focuses on editing sound please tell me; I already have my video needs met. I know there's no easy way, but that's not new to me. biggrin That's what I love (and hate smile ) about filmmaking.
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 8:21pm

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Merrick

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I just looked up more about surround and realized that there's a ton more than just a program that I have to buy. I don't think I can afford it. sad
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 8:49pm

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davlin

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Yeah its not easy to get the right gear organised but you're starting to get to know whats needed and who knows if you can beg for bigger gifts at birthdays......hehe.
Help and advice is always here.
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 10:15pm

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Merrick

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I'm wanting a better camrea so I better spend my money on that first. I'm trying to find a group in my area that will lend equiptment. If that doesn't work, well... let's just say I'm glad advice is free. smile
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 2:46pm

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pdrg

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Just to summarise, then

1) you can't make surround sound out of stereo sound, but some amplifiers will try to fake it for you. This can sound naff.
2) You need to be smart and understand what you're doing, mixing DOWN to 6 tracks, not just using 6 tracks.
3) You need specialised equipment to export the sound sync in any meaningful way, you can't just copy it back to digibeta, for instance
4) This is commercial technology, you have to get a license from Dolby to use it, hence it not being a 'for free' thing. Also, expect a full audio post with pro 5.1 mix/adr/foley/sfx/etc to set you back around £65k.

Reckon the fancy camera is a better bet for now wink
Posted: Tue, 29th May 2007, 9:53pm

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Merrick

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Thank's for the advice, pdrg. Anything that has the word "commercial" in it probably won't be for my films. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 12:04pm

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pdrg

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enjoy your nice new camera instead of letting this nonsense worry you wink
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 3:31pm

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Merrick

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pdrg wrote:

enjoy your nice new camera instead of letting this nonsense worry you wink
I will. Hey, who thinks I should buy a gl2?

100 million posts follow arguing over the gl2 biggrin
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 10:54pm

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SilverDragon7

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Well it would be WELL worth your time, unless you're able to find a cheap VX2100.

But if you're interested... The Panasonic GS series is good too, and cheaper (400-800$ I think). Which may be better for you level of filmmaking.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 3:23pm

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Merrick

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While I agree with you about the Panasonic, I was joking when I made that last post. I would also be scared to buy a VX2100 that would fit my budget smile
Posted: Tue, 4th Sep 2007, 10:16pm

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Merrick

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Wait a second. Under what circumstances do I have to pay Dolby a liscense? I know that some consumer cameras record in 5.1. Surely they don't pay a liscense for it in their home movies. Also, you have to activate pinnacle to be able to mix in surround in it. Anyone know how much activation costs?
Posted: Tue, 4th Sep 2007, 10:46pm

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pdrg

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Those cameras pay a fee to Dolby, albeit they buy in bulk, and it's one of the silliest gimmicks you can get on a handycam

As for mixing surround (6 channels) if you have any NLE with 6 spare audio tracks you can do something similar but I'm not sure it'd be worth the grief to be honest, and paying (say) £100 for a bit of 'ware to make it easy to mix in 2D will easily outweigh 20 hrs of minimum wage work to pay for it (in my humble opinion) - however, how do you propose to actually encode and play the film? Most DVD editing 'ware will only take stereo, so that's the benefit lost. Going out to film means printing in between the perforations (crazy!), not sure how else you could distribute on a budget (unless your DVDcreation--ware has Dolby capability and has paid the license!)
Posted: Tue, 4th Sep 2007, 11:36pm

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doppelganger

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

Which may be better for you level of filmmaking.
I know you probably didnt mean it this way but saying a cheaper and not as good camera "may be better for there level of filmmaking" Makes you sound like a big jack***. Again I know you probably didnt mean it that way but if someone said something like that to me I'd probably take it as an offense.

Anyway I'm getting a gl2 in about 2 weeks and havent been so excited about anything this much, except the car I got about 2 weeks ago. I've been In pre-pro for my new movie ever sense I finished that Indiana Jones movie. And the first thing on my to-do list was to get a pro-sumer cam. In the end the gl2 was the most affordable and I've heard nothing but great reviews... save a few. So I say go for it, and settle for nothing less. Settling for something you dont really want just because its cheaper will get you no were unless its what you want. So anyways good luck saving/earning the money, cause its hard without a job.
Posted: Tue, 4th Sep 2007, 11:56pm

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Frosty G

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2 weeks? Wow thats soon, good job. What kind of car did ya get? I got a new Chevy Colorado crewcab 2 weeks ago as well.
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 12:33am

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doppelganger

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'97 Izuzu Rodio
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 1:52am

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Merrick

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pdrg wrote:

how do you propose to actually encode and play the film?
That's what I was going to ask next. Once again I'm discouraged from surround. At least I can still use a subwoofer with stereo. By the way, I'd probably be more exited about a camera than a car! What kind of a teenager am I? biggrin Guess I'll just be driving my mom's '91 Honda forever.
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 1:55am

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doppelganger

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Merrick World wrote:

What kind of a teenager am I?
Your a filmmaking teenager, it takes over all our lives, dont fight it just imbrace it and you'll be fine... maybe.
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 3:58am

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neoglitz

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Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 7 has 5.1 capabilities for surround and it is not expensive.


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Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 12:32pm

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Merrick

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RebornProductions wrote:

Merrick World wrote:

What kind of a teenager am I?
Your a filmmaking teenager, it takes over all our lives, dont fight it just imbrace it and you'll be fine... maybe.
Yep.
As far as vegas goes, yes I could afford the program, but what pdrg is trying to say is that I couldn't afford a liscense and a DVD crating program that supports surround to go with it.
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 12:43pm

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pdrg

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Having said that, maybe Vegas provides the DVD 5.1 Dolby writing capabilities in which case, there's nothing stopping you apart from the time it takes to mix the extra 4 channels! Cool! If this is the case, Sony will have bought a mass AC-3 license so you're golden biggrin

Personally I'd spend more time on a stereo mix, but I don't have choppers and explosions to get the benefit wink Have great fun smile

EDIT - for clarity.
Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007, 2:38pm

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pdrg

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Looks like Vegas comes with its own DVD-ware which will do the AC-3 encode and build for you...the manufacturer has already paid the license fees in this case, so go Vegas and surround to your heart's content wink That's cool, dead cool.
Posted: Thu, 6th Sep 2007, 9:09pm

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Merrick

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biggrin biggrin biggrin YYYEEESSS!!! biggrin biggrin biggrin I would still skip it on non-action films, like you said, pdrg. Thanks everyone.