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Help with True HD capture please.

Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 8:38pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi,
I'm shooting something this weekend on a sony f750 hdcam and would like to edit the footage myself, i've been trying to find what i need to capture it, from what i understand (i might be wrong) but the pro hd camera's won't play back, this means I need HDCAM player? is this right?

What type of connection do I need to capture, I read you can't use firewire for true HD, what type of card is there, i've never seen one sad

Can I play the footage back onto the camera or do I still need a hd player.

What would you edit HDCAM with ? avid, fcp, premiere or vegas?

Any help would be great.
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 8:42pm

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ben3308

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The latest Avid supports HD, Final Cut Pro HD supports it, and any version of Vegas 6 or above can handle HD.
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 8:49pm

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b4uask30male

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thanks, phew I use vegas.
Any idea how to capture it sad (dv is so much easier)
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 8:52pm

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ben3308

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I've got HD-VGA and HDMI inputs on my laptop, I dunno if you've got anything of the sort on your computer.

If not, I think you need to buy a card that affords you these ports. BlackMagicDesign has a new product out that covers all these ports through your PCMCIA slot.

Look here:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Maybe that'll help. Oh, and if fyou have Vegas 6, you'll notice it says "HD Video Editing" as the subtitle when you open it, you probably could've figured that one out on your own, haha. wink

Hope this helps.
Posted: Mon, 21st May 2007, 8:57pm

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b4uask30male

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hi thanks

I knew vegas said hd but knowing only a little about hd i thought it ment HDV as in my fx1, I wasn't sure if it did hdcam. thanks

I've just found capture cards on google images, around £2,000, I'll check your link now thanks

edit, just looked at your link, i don't think that works with the camera type, reading about hdcam I think it says it takes a BNC connection, thus the higher price tag sad
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 8:53am

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Joshua Davies

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ben3308, the HDMI on your laptop is an output not an input (unless its some utterly crazy laptop??). HD-VGA (which is just a cable VGA with a silly name) is also just an ouput, not an input.

Firewire is used to get true HD on to your computer its just that some high end cameras won't have the connection as they expect you to use a deck rather than the camera.

The HVX200 which isn't quite so high end has a Firewire connection for instance.

While many editors can edit at HD resolution, if they support the container/format your camera uses is another matter. In many cases you need to convert the container or use software like Raylight...
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 2:51pm

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b4uask30male

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Thanks, I've learnt a lot, in the end i've made a demo of my fx1 and that was approved, so now i'm hiring a cameraman with the sony 750 camera and i've booked an edit suite, I have to hire an editor sad as they use mac and i've never used one, so the time it would take me to learn the software etc, would cost me more than hiring the suite.

Look out for it, it's being show before the new harry potter film.
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 3:20pm

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ashman

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Look out for it, it's being show before the new harry potter film.
?


What am I looking out for?
Posted: Tue, 22nd May 2007, 3:34pm

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b4uask30male

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It a commercail for Raleigh Bikes,
You can see the demo I made for them
www.superteam.biz/raladvert.wmv

Shooting the full version this weekend.

Also strange how things fit into place but (fingers crossed) I might be directing an advert for argos for tv.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 8:49am

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miker

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ben3308 wrote:

The latest Avid supports HD, Final Cut Pro HD supports it, and any version of Vegas 6 or above can handle HD.
Sooo... Adobe Premiere does not support HD?
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 9:09am

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ashman

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Adobe Premiere 2 does indeed support HD.

But being a SD user the option to use it just sits there and laughs at me sad
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 9:17am

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Joshua Davies

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Isn't that advert for like a local cycle store which sells Raleigh bikes rather than for the Raleigh company itself?

I know someone who does all the video and motion graphics for Argos (in-store) and all there TV work is handled by a massive agency who get paid millions to make their campaigns.

Has Argos actually come to you or the agency?

Last edited Wed, 23rd May 2007, 9:24am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 9:24am

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b4uask30male

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Raleigh owns cyclelife shops and the advert is aimed at brand awareness for raleigh and cyclelife, i'm filming for Raleigh getting the pay cheque from Raleigh, but cyclelife sells the bikes (although you can buy them direct from Raleigh) they want people to use the stores.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 9:33am

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Joshua Davies

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Hmmm, you did kind of make it sound like you were making some big national advert directly for Raleigh bikes (who you assume would use an agency) rather than a regional advert for a franchise shop network called Cyclelife which is a subsidiary of Raleigh.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:20am

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b4uask30male

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I AM MAKING IT DIRECTLY FOR RALEIGH, WANT TO SEE MY HUGE PAY CHEQUE WITH THEIR NAME ON IT, SIGNED BY THE MD THAT I MET.

hmmm, lets try to catch ian out sad I can't win, tough crowd, can't you guys be happy for me?

You do know things change in life?

(you would assume they would use an agency) any more knocks please ? normaly they would use an agency, do you want me to sit down and explain how i got the job, does it matter, no, one of the FXHOME members is doing something at last (and i've had fxhome members moan at me for not getting out there) and I get this sad

At the start they wanted a full national advert. there you go, wasn't lieing.

But then throughtout the talks with them they started to say they wanted to push the cyclelife shops more, they THEN spoke to cyclelife and agreed to push the shops.

However if this advert does well for them (first advert since 1986) they want a bigger national advert at christmas, keep your fingers crossed I get that job.
I'm probably going to get flamed for answering the mighty swhar back, but hay as things happen I tell it as it is, crap happens sometimes.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:37am

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Sollthar

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I AM MAKING IT DIRECTLY FOR RALEIGH, WANT TO SEE MY HUGE PAY CHEQUE WITH THEIR NAME ON IT, SIGNED BY THE MD THAT I MET.



Heh, sorry. Couldn't help but think of that scene. Love it when he loses his cigar.



I'm not familiar with Raleigh, but doing adverts is always cool. And usually well paid. At least here, plus I always had fun doing stuff for TV.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:38am

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ashman

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Tbh why should you care what poeple think, if your doing well then what does it matter?

You really take everything to heart and I have no idea why, I really wish you all the best with what you do. You seem to be making feature films with millions of pounds. Your rich, your happy with your job. So there you go. The end. No big deal no big problem.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:49am

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b4uask30male

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my concern is i don't want people to think i'm a liar.

If i say something it's the truth at that time, things change and I don't want anyone to use what was true at one point and has changed to make it sound like i was lieing.

Hope that makes sense.

thank solly, pay isn't that huge, my fault really when I quoted for it I thought I'd shoot it on a dvx200 as you said you got great results but in the end i've had to hire a hdcam etc. so the profit is a little lower, but for about 3 days work it's great, will try to push companies to use me, cheaper than using an agent and .. in my view i'm better, have to tell myself that to keep me going.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:55am

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Joshua Davies

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Ian, we are happy for you! But you do have a bit of a history of exaggerrating things somewhat in order to make them sound hugely impressive (like your ebay post about the acting position in your film, and saying your movies have been shown on Sky TV, when it was the much smaller Propeller channel which is broadcast on Sky but is not a Sky channel).

While self-promotion is important in the industry, you don't have to sell yourself here in that way and I understand why you always feel the need to?

The fact that you are paid by Raleigh does not make a difference to my statements, you really must be able to see that?

b4uask30male wrote:

It a commercail for Raleigh Bikes
You said you are making a commercial for Raleigh bikes which makes it sound like it'll be advertising Raleigh bikes.

In this case your reader thinks "how on earth did b4uask30male land such a huge company who surely normally use an agency, this is amazing!"

What you didn't state was that its and advert for a smaller franchise subsidiary of Raleigh who sell bikes in which case our reaction is "well done b4uask30male, that sounds like a really good deal to land good luck with it."

Why not say "I'm making an advert for a chain of bike shops!", we would still be impressed and it doesn't seem so remarkable to us old boys who know your previous experience.

That's the point really: you don't need to exaggerrate things, because it's already impressive. Having your movie shown on Propeller is cool, without making it sound like it was on Sky itself. Doing an advert for anybody is great, without it needing to be actually for Raleigh Bikes.

b4uask30male wrote:

Look out for it, it's being show before the new harry potter film.
Again you often add no specification to comments like this...

Is your advert being printed to film and being shown before Harry Potter on a national scale? I'm afraid I highly doubt it.

There are CycleLife stores in 50 towns and cities around the UK - I highly expect it'll only be shown in these cities on the digital projection before the big budget commercials begin, rather than printed to film.

Again, it's still a great achievement so I don't know why you try and tart it up unnecessarily, which inevitably leads to confusion and some cynicism?
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 12:21pm

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b4uask30male

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It's being made to 35mm, i wanted to keep it digital but PEARL AND DEAN said it has to be converted (they are doing that), if you don't believe fine, But I hope you see it and then say to yourself, i did give ian some stick about this, he was right sad




I am doing an advert for their bikes, if not then saturday there is no point in me collecting a dimond back, and all the other bikes they want on the advert, they would just give me one bike.
So while you say I exaggerate maybe you read too much into it.
I said i'm shooting a commercial for raleigh bikes, i am doing just that.
I said my film was shown on sky tv it was, now, if I said it was shown on SKY MOVIES or sky one then you can pull me up on it.
Stop reading to much into things, I had to say sky tv as cable users can't get channel 195.

Did i say it's going on the front of EVERY HARRY POTTER FILM, no again you reading a little too much into it.

I feel i have to let you know about everything else now incase you think i was exaggerating about those, the usa investor for his script legacy sent the money through I had to set up a ltd company, shooting on that trailer starts july and if the trailer is a success I'll get over (and i know i said 600,000 dollars before but the investor is now trying to invest even more) so it might be over the $600,000 for the full film.
(i'll be needing effects on that film, anyone who is excellent with fxhome products and would be willing to work with me let me know)

I admit I'm crap at spelling.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 4:48pm

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Joshua Davies

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I think its less that people read too much in to the things you say and more that you word them to try and impress even when its unnecessary.

If i was making a show which was shown on the Propeller channel then I would say its going to be on Propeller which is broadcast on Sky.

I would not say that it was going to be on Sky TV channel 195 which seems to deliberately avoid saying that its actually on the Propeller channel and align itself with the Sky brand. Most places I read you didn't even give the channel number and just went with "my movie is on Sky TV" which really does seem rather misleading (especially on the ebay post).

Good luck with the advert all the same, I hope filming goes well.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 6:09pm

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b4uask30male

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thanks for the good luck wish, If all goes well you might see it.

Just thought you might want to know how I got on with the ebay auction that I done, it was a little hassle as I got equity card members complain that i'm not paying the company limited wage, after they worked out that i'm not a company (on this film) they shut up and the winners get their money back they couldn't say anything.
but the winners are two people i'm glad I met, the man is a stage actor and is very good, he then came along to be in Call me a Psycho that we are shooting, the other person, a woman is also a film producer and actress, since meeting her I've helped her with a few short filming things she needed done, so in the end the Ebay thing worked out well for me.

As always if you want i'll keep you updated of my movements.
Posted: Wed, 23rd May 2007, 10:45pm

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Sollthar

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Personally, I really can't wait to see a 600'000$ superteam-movie.

Shame you couldn't make it to the Recon 2 premiere, I'd have loved to talk to you in person.
But hanging around with Hybrid and Arktic and getting food poisoning in a chinese restaurant is JUST as awesome I believe. wink
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 6:33am

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b4uask30male

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If your not busy when i shoot that film, i'd love your help over here.
You know I value your skill.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 7:03am

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ben3308

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b4uask30male wrote:

hmmm, lets try to catch ian out sad I can't win, tough crowd, can't you guys be happy for me?

I'm probably going to get flamed for answering the mighty swhar back, but hay as things happen I tell it as it is, crap happens sometimes.
We could be happy for you had you not shown a history of exaggerating/outright lying about stuff exactly like this time upon time.

It also adds insult to injury when you've yet to show us something you've produced that's even close to positive reception from a NATIONAL market. I saw you on IMDb the other day, along with 2EPIC, and I can respect that. But your cinematographic quality just isn't up to any sort of national broadcast level, at all.

I mean, come on. We're not idiots.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 7:07am

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Atom

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I don't want to say "anticipated", but.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 10:48am

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b4uask30male

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shut up will you,.

Show me where i have said i've done "NATIONAL market"

See, grow up, pratt.

Also 2 epic was added on IMDB by someone else, I didn't even know that was done until i got an email saying 2 epic cost thousands, when we know it didn't.

So please, please as much as you try to catch me out, I end up proving i'm right.

Lets try it another way, even if you read my posts as a little more than what they are, that's called marketing, look at the front page of fxhome, they quote the product "compose the perfect shot"
Now, perfect... in who's view, fxhome's fine not a problem if they want to say that that's fine.

But if i said that then people could say there is no such thing as perfect or that's misleading as compared to something that weta has done it's not perfect.

So, if you don't understand marketing, fxhome does and thus the quote, then the world would be full of "this product is ok, buy it if you want"

Hype...

On here people hype their films all the time, putting up posts way before they even show a clip from their film, again it's called marketing.

Propellertv advertises themselves as channel 195, so if you had the choice to put on your site.

My film was shown on propellertv, you;ll need sky not freeview and it's not on cable, it's on channel 195

or would you put

my film was shown on sky tv channel 195.

I rest my case.


PLEASE READ THIS AS I'LL GET FLAMED FOR NOT REPLYING


I might not be able to come back here for a while to read you answers/moans etc, I'm going away on a big film shoot (now again the word big, you'll say it's not big and moan, but to me it's a big film shoot so i'll use the word big if i want) you're starting to understand now that what people type is from their own perspective.
On the set of the cowboy i won't have internet and I'll be staying away at location.
(Location, film set, bet you haven't got cinema camera's or huge 1000 watt lights there, if not then it's not a true film set or location)

You see my point what ever I type will get turned around.
(why you turning around, you running)
No, just saying ...
(what you saying, you going to tell lies again, i bet your not shooting a BIG cowboy film, i bet your playing in your garden, *all laugh)
No really it's a set, sad oh why bother sad
(Yeah, why bother you make crap films, you shouldn't make it before us, we are better than you)
I know some of you are, i admit that, but i'm good at getting things done
(yeah pushy little b£$"£ard)
No, if i didn't push i wouldn't be where i am now
(your no-where, you make these little homemade films and think you can make proper feature films)
so did peter jackson and speilberg
(yeah but they had talent)
was they born with it or did they have to shoot loads of stuff before getting their skill
(well they shot stuff, but was way better than yours)
OK, i'll put my head in the oven and give up
(any crap film makers should give up *HAY, WHAT YOU SAYING, I MAKE GOOD FILMS, and me AND ME)
you've started something there.
(Not everone on here makes crap films)
name the ones that should give up
(No)
ok, are you films crap?
(mine are the best ever)
better than sollthars
(er. well, i like sollthar, we are about the same)
ok, no problem.

Have to go now, it's been nice chatting with you.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 10:54am

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Xcession

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Get a grip and some personal accountability.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 11:02am

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Joshua Davies

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FXhome is a marketting website b4uask30male, particulally the page you talk about. The forum on the other hand is more for chatting and support. Do you "market" yourself in general conversation all the time in the way you do on posts on the forum?

Anyone here who makes bold or potentially misleading claims for their next films who hasn't shown the ability to deliver those claims in previous projects tends to get flamed. For example, Atom and Ben got quite a lot of flak for all their Splinter Cell movie claims, when the movie never surfaced. Since then, however, they've learnt from the mistake, produced a good selectin of technically solid work and don't feel the need to over-hype to such a level.

The rest of your post seems a bit wild so I will just ask what you mean by "cinema cameras"? I hope you don't mean some HDV or a HXV200 pro-sumer camera or something. I take it you mean you've hired a couple of $100,000+ HD varicams and some serious $250,000 lenses, or have you gone even higher and hired some 35mm equipment? Either way you're going to need a bunch of professional camera operators? This is again a case of maybe over-hyping your setup?

Also, a few 1000watt lights doesn't really move you out of the standard amateur arena. I'm pretty sure many of the better films here use that kind of equipment.

Please calm down man.

You don't have to prove you are better than other people here with vague statements about your equipment. You've gone out there and got work in the video production industry which is hardly easy!

People on here don't think you take advice well and there are questions over the way you market yourself but it doesn't really matter. Go and make the best productions you can. Let your work do the talking...

and if you want people on FXhome to be more friendly towards you then consider the other issues we've talked about in your own time.
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 11:42am

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potman

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B4

Firstly, I'm glad for you... making dough though making films is a dream alot of us are trying to aspire too, so we can relate to it! It's great you appear to be living it!

There's just two things that don't quite fit my perception of reality when it comes to your claims...

1. Why are you asking about HD capture? A paid advertiser should be clued up on this or resourceful enough to do some simple research on the subject. Also in that test advert of yours some of the shots were totally over exposed and in turn were hardly broadcast safe (very unprofessional).

2. 600'000 bucks for a space cowboy film... Look at the logo in your sig B4... eek

As humans it's our nature to comapre things to other things and comparatively your claims just don't seem to realistically add up to your output in film.

Simply let your film's be your claim's...
Posted: Thu, 24th May 2007, 11:56am

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B3N

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I feel this is going to become something we have never seen before
Posted: Fri, 25th May 2007, 11:51pm

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Atom

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All I know is I REALLY want a Raleigh bike now.
Posted: Sat, 26th May 2007, 12:08am

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Kid

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All this nonsense aside, you can get cards with hdmi inputs and outputs now in a similar way to firewire cards.
Posted: Sat, 26th May 2007, 12:56am

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pdrg

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Bloody Hell! It's kicking off here isn't it? Better add my 2p and fan the flames :-$

1) HDCAM Capture - you need an HDCAM deck appx £400/day-week, ask around. Should come with cables etc, but...

2) HDCAM is too high a data-rate for firewire etc. If you can get a capture card, I still doubt your laptop/desktop/mac can handle 1080/25p, especially if uncompssed (6Mb/frame = 150MBps = 1.2Gbps plus audio, of course), or that you can store much of it without extra hardware

3) A more productive workflow is to take the HDCAM tapes to a facility and get ds to dv, do an offline edit with that, then go back to an online facility for an HD edit and you'll be wanting an uncompressed grade as well.

4)Marketing/etc - my personal feelings... I believe in understatement then impressing people over overstatement followed by disappointment. This forum really isn't a competition about who got paid what for which job. Getting paid anything at all in this trade is tough, especially at the lower levels, so I totally celebrate any gig anyone gets!!!


If you're shooting on the 750 (great little camera) then expect about £500-600/day for a kit (body, head, legs, monitor, cables, ENG-style HD zoom lens). Clearly you need a separate sound dept, but your requirements will dictate what you need. You can record stereo to the camera if you need to.
Make sure you have a capable DoP, it's a complex camera, and you have a lot of decisions to make upfront - i or p, 720/1080, sync/non, screen ratio, iris & gain, blah. We've used the 750 at 1080/25p, if that helps. It's great with smooth tiny screen detail, but don't forget your limited dynamic range. PM me if you want a 4:4:4 post facility or hire facility for a 750.

hth