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Redemption

Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 12:40pm

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Atom

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After finding a winning edge at last year's Dallas 24-Hour Video Race, Atomic Productions approached 2007 with a slightly different idea in mind. The result is "Redemption".

The film is told through the third-person narrative of Watts, an overly philosophical and rhetorically ambiguous man. As the story progresses, Watts retells the decline of one James Falcone; a good kid turned bad by drugs and negative influence. As we watch Watts comment on Falcone's life, the question is beckoned: how far is the point of no return?

This film was produced in under 24 hours and met certain parameters, which were as follows. The required location was flagpole, the prop a musical instrument, the line of dialogue "you don't owe me anything", and a theme of "wrong turn". This year we wanted better technicals and higher production values, and I think we succeeded in that regard. The script, however, may not make the greatest deal of sense.

It is with that, we ask you, that you take this for what it is: a movie made in 24 hours that attempted to be the coolest-looking, drama-filled end result we could produce. Are there a few cheesy moments? Yes. Does the story make complete sense? No. But we stuck to the fact that we could make something fun, dramatic, and cool to watch, and "Redemption", in our opinions, is that.

Enjoy.


More Info
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 4:50pm

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Phileep

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very good! there was a nice cinematic feel to it, abit confusing but still awsome!
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 6:07pm

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Garrison

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Good stuff. I generally like what you guys put out especially when it's like these 24 Hour races.

Music was good and solemn and for me, matched the mood of the film.

The dollying worked nicely too in the interview.

The character Watts did a great job in his philosophy and deliverance of his lines. "As above, so below."

I liked the over the shoulder view of the junkie before the fight where the character James was telling the addict to get out. The fight and struggle scene was done well to with the handheld camera actions and closeups that made the fight seem more brutal.

The only nitpicks I have are such minor things, but the cigarrette at 00:49 needed to be held more at the butt part rather than the middle of the cigarrette (I know in the commentary he doesn't smoke) to make it more convincing. I could tell he wasn't a smoker just from that.

And the moment where I was anticipating the gunshot of the addict (where you used a squib) went so fast and the angle was so different from the preceding scenes that I had a hard time orienting myself to what I was watching.

Other than that, great job guys.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:12pm

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Jabooza

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It was alright. The acting was pretty good for the most part, I don't think it was quite as strong in the end though. I also thought it was annoying that you couldn't really hear the dialog in the beginning.

Didn't seem to have that much of a story, although it did have quite a bit of emotion.

I personally didn't like the 3+ minute run time.

The camera work and cinematography where both excellent.

All-in-all, not amazing but still made well. 2/5
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:23pm

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ben3308

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What's the biggest thing that brought you down to a 2? That seems a little drastic, I'm curious as to your specific gripes. Was 3 minutes really too long to hold your attention?
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:29pm

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hatsoff2halford

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I enjoyed this!

i really like the overall idea of the story with the narrative going on. The grading seemed very appropriate, more so for the, I suppose, interrogation scenes. I liked the lighting as well. And the slow dolly shot when Watts is talking about Redemption is very nice, but a few little quirks in the camera movement to get both characters in the frame killed it just a little bit. The acting by both men in the interrogation scene was extremely well, and I enjoyed Watts's philisophical views on everything.

Audio in the interrogation scene had some slight buzzing when the man with the cigar is talking and it clearly goes away when Watts is talking. I would have figured out what was causing that first? Fridge? Fan? I'm not sure. Also, the white chair next to the man with the cigar, in my opinion, should have been removed.

Sorry I'm going a little out of order here. When the man with the cigar phone rings and he says "This thing rings so much it might as well be my guitar", I think the cut immediately after that should have been a mid-phone ringing cut to the a frontal view of that man. I think it would have worked better especially since you can clearly see that it is voiced over. And then, after that quick cut, you could have gone to the dolly shot that was originally in place.

During the fight scene, the cut where James is being thrown against the picture and then the cut where he is falling to the ground has some continuity issues with the picture falling down. When James is initially thrown agains the picture it begins to fall, then there is a wide cut of James falling to the ground, and the picture is in perfect position until about half way through that cut. Also during the fight scene, when James is getting beat with the cup? the audio is clearly out of sync with the actual hits of the cup.

When James is talking to his sister, and it cuts to him saying "You don't owe me anything" I would have framed that shot just a bit differen't. I would have had there be more space to the left of Jame's head to signify the breaking relationship between him and his sister. It would, to me, suggest that their relationship isn't what it used to be. If you had framed him to the left, the realtionship would have seemed closer. The space between them would have been shared, rather than James pushing away.

I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say, it's hard for me to word it, but hopefully you do.

Everything I named was all probably caused because of the time-limit. But overall, you guys did a great job. Especially with more time, this could have been an interesting story I think. Congratulations!

Sorry for the long post, I just figured that you would like to know what people think.

Last edited Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:56pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:41pm

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Jabooza

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ben3308 wrote:

What's the biggest thing that brought you down to a 2? That seems a little drastic, I'm curious as to your specific gripes. Was 3 minutes really too long to hold your attention?
I think the biggest thing that caused me to rate it that was because it really didn't have that deep of a story. The thing I don't like about the 3 minute length was that I didn't think it was long enough. I think that if it would've been longer it could've had more of a story and been better.
I really wanted to rate it 2.5 stars but sense that's not possible I had trouble deciding weather to make it 2 or 3 and finally choose 2.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 7:57pm

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Atom

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Garrison wrote:

The character Watts did a great job in his philosophy and deliverance of his lines. "As above, so below."
Thanks! Since you watched the commentary, you'll know that none of us had any idea what that meant when he kept saying it. As I was writing and redrafting the script, Tyrien (Watts) kept crossing stuff out and writing 'As above so below'. It was kind of funny, since no one knew what it meant, but on camera it did indeed come out perfect.

hatsoff2halford wrote:

I enjoyed this!
Thanks, man. Your review is spot-on with our thoughts and intentions, and I just love when a movie can convey that and the audience gets it. It's a great moment.

The acting by both men in the interrogation scene was extremely well, and I enjoyed Watts's philisophical views on everything.
We've been fortunate to always have some great actors. It was amazing that Chase's cousin, Bud the Interrogator, could act so well, since he was completely a quick, on-spot pick for the character.

Audio in the interrogation scene had some slight buzzing when the man with the cigar is talking and it clearly goes away when Watts is talking. I would have figured out what was causing that first? Fridge? Fan? I'm not sure. Also, the white chair next to the man with the cigar, in my opinion, should have been removed.
Haha, the noise is actually a fog machine warming up, the one we used to get that diffused lighting. The loud-soft-loud-soft I have no idea what it is. All the audio is one straight take, not chopped up and all from the same audio clip, so nothing was voiced over or different. I upped the levels and lowered the gain on the Interrogator because in comparison to Watts he spoke very softly. (appropriate for his character, though)

Sorry I'm going a little out of order here. When the man with the cigar phone rings and he says "This thing rings so much it might as well be my guitar", I think the cut immediately after that should have been a mid-phone ringing cut to the a frontal view of that man. I think it would have worked better especially since you can clearly see that it is voiced over.
Like I said, it wasn't actually voiced over, he's really saying it. I was iffy on that shot, but at the time couldn't seem to find the now obvious clip from the front and used the beginning dolly shot. I've taken a liking to it as it transitions the music pretty nicely. It's all sound-for-take, though.

When James is talking to his sister, and it cuts to him saying "You don't owe me anything" I would have framed that shot just a bit differen't. I would have had there be more space to the left of Jame's head to signify the breaking relationship between him and his sister. It would, to me, suggest that their relationship isn't what it used to be. If you had framed him to the right, the realtionship would have seemed closer. The space between them would have been shared, rather than James pushing away.
We tried this several ways, and you seem to see what we were getting at. If you listen to the commentary, we originally had and shot a sweeping, dramatic crane shot from her to him, but the shadows made it obvious. It may not be the best framing, but I just loved the lighting and contrast already in the shot, and I had to use it.

Everything I named was all probably caused because of the time-limit. But overall, you guys did a great job. Especially with more time, this could have been an interesting story I think. Congratulations!

Sorry for the long post, I just figured that you would like to know what people think.
No problem, I love long posts. It shows an interest in something.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:04pm

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hatsoff2halford

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Ah, I should have watched the commentary before posting! I'll do that as soon as I get a chance.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:11pm

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Garrison

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Atom wrote:

Garrison wrote:

The character Watts did a great job in his philosophy and deliverance of his lines. "As above, so below."
Thanks! Since you watched the commentary, you'll know that none of us had any idea what that meant when he kept saying it. As I was writing and redrafting the script, Tyrien (Watts) kept crossing stuff out and writing 'As above so below'. It was kind of funny, since no one knew what it meant, but on camera it did indeed come out perfect.
I believe he means something to the effect of "what he thinks is what he is" meaning what we think determines alot of how we behave.

I may be wrong, but that's what I thought of when he said it.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:14pm

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Atom

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Haha, well we all figured it out after watching the final product once or twice, but yeah.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:40pm

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KKB-FILM

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24 hour made film.. Not bad.. But its a very VERY standard american drama scenes in it, and the manuscript is like a clonefilm << Stop it, youre going to kill him>>, im so tired of that sentece.. razz But all in all i think its a good 24 hour made film.. But a litle boring..
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:50pm

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ben3308

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Ah, but kimmik, I think the real question is: is any of this drama and dialogue close to the standard for FXHome?

wink
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 8:58pm

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Bryce007

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Great Visuals here. The Acting is quite good (Minus the girl....), and the storyline fits the tiny timeslot nicely.

The Dolly over to watts was the moneyshot.


I liked it better than cover story, and it felt more cinematic without the usual HIGH shutter speed in every scene and proper grading.


Only things I would have changed:

The girl yelling the "Stop it" line, and then Randomly producing a gun from another room...(Although Here in Montana, most people COULD just walk into the next room and get their gun. Same In Texas I assume...)

The angle on the cigarette smoking was abit extreme.


Other then Those, Nicely Accomplished. Definately one of the best overall films I've seen on Fxhome.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:06pm

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ben3308

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Bryce007 wrote:

The angle on the cigarette smoking was abit extreme.
If you've seen Once Upon a Time in Mexico, I was going for that "flagpole in the background" shot like Rodriguez gets of the general while he's smoking a cigar. We needed a flagpole, so crazy perspective seemed appropriate, haha.

Thanks for your comments, man!
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:17pm

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drspin98

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I was really pretty disappointed. I really liked "Cover's Story" a lot and was hoping for something like that.

The punching sounds-way below what I expected out of you. Good golly, they sounded like something I would do-LOL. Watts did an adequate job-but to essentially carry the whole film, one has to be more than adequate. He spoke too fast at times and lacked "presence". He wasn't bad, just not up to the task.

I could hear that noise (I'm sure there's a name for it) when the mic is moved during and at the end of the conversion on the stairs.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:20pm

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B3N

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I liked this film, pretty cool guys but this is all i'm writing.


Nah only joking. The start of it was great with some nice panning shots and some nice use of dialogues. When the guy pulls his mobile out at the start was that strange noise a ringtone? because it didn't go to well with the music, and if it was just music it didn't fit in well with the music. The music was good though and the acting was great for the interrogation bits. The sound for the start really could have done with better ADR work as the dialouge was lost in bit but seeing as it's a 34 hour film you maybe couldn't do it in time.

The first flashback to the James guy was a bit too quick, but the "As above, So below line came out great. The flashbacks in the scene was ok apart from the cigerette angle, didn't feel right.

The battle scene went really well with the camera shaking but some sound effects went a bit wonky in that bit. The girl could have done better with the gun as she looked like a dumbass holding it but anyone would know how to hold a gun, apart from a baby of course. Liked the ending how you used the title name and i saw that coming.

The whole thing was well done.

Music: Great
Acting: Great
Grading: Great
Cheorography: Good
Sounds: Mediocore

Felt like watching part of a film and I found this good.
Congratulations

B3N
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:32pm

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SilverDragon7

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Alright, now that I've seen it as it was made, I have to say it is still great. I still give it a 5/5 stars. Everything is good. My only thing is in the fight scene, some of the sound effects don't match what's going on. And the Addict drops the pot 2 different ways when he is shot.

Overall, I think Cover's Story is better. That's why I'm putting this below it on my top 10 movies wink.

(BTW I like that cigarette shot, nice usage of the flagpole)
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:43pm

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Atom

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Thanks, guys!

B3N wrote:

The girl could have done better with the gun as she looked like a dumbass holding it but anyone would know how to hold a gun, apart from a baby of course. Liked the ending how you used the title name and i saw that coming.
Girl looked like a.....I don't quite follow. Holding a gun how? Perhaps it's the wording, but I don't get what you're saying. Oh, and yeah, like the 'Redemption' beginning and end bit? I worked the plot around that specifically and the required elements. Let me also say that we didn't start with a big boom like Cover's Story because we didn't want to appear redundant/unimaginative, and while it probably would've been better off starting at the end or something, it's a tricky thing for us to gauge the judges and try and keep things fresh.

That was our greatest worry throughout the whole shebang. In the end, it didn't matter though, because we weren't judged and the judging wasn't representative of good filmmaking anyway.

Enough of that, though, onto more comments!

Music: Great
Acting: Great
Grading: Great
Cheorography: Good
Sounds: Mediocore

drspin98 wrote:

I was really pretty disappointed. I really liked "Cover's Story" a lot and was hoping for something like that.

The punching sounds-way below what I expected out of you. Good golly, they sounded like something I would do-LOL.
In all honesty, sound design for 24-hours is really hard to get right. What were you expecting? All the sound effects are hi-fi and (fairly) well-timed. Are there any directly wrong things with the audio, speaking, and sfx? As an editor, I'd like some feedback on specifics so I can work on them. I just never understand, are there a lot BETTER sound effects I could've used that I don't know of?

Seriously, I need more/better ones.


And thanks, SilverDragon, we appreciate it in your Top Ten!
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:49pm

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B3N

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Don't you worry your little filming brain Atom.

Pats atoms head

It was a 24 hour one so you probaly couldn't get enough sound effects, but at least the film came out well.

like the 'Redemption' beginning and end bit? I worked the plot around that specifically and the required elements. Let me also say that we didn't start with a big boom like Cover's Story because we didn't want to appear redundant/unimaginative, and while it probably would've been better off starting at the end or something, it's a tricky thing for us to gauge the judges and try and keep things fresh.
I liked the end bit i meant. and the "no big boom" thing worked well. Liked the way it slowly sent us into the story a bit.

Girl looked like a.....I don't quite follow. Holding a gun how?
Well what i'm saying is, 1: Her brothers being beaten to a pulp and she just walks off. 2: the way she held the gun looked like she was too focused on trying to cry. It doesn't really matter though it's just what i thought of that bit. Think she could have done better.

B3N
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:51pm

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Sollthar

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This is partially nicely shot. And as mentioned, some of the acting is really on a high level. Great actually. I'd say that's the strongest aspect of this film, some of the acting in it.

Storywise, the film delivers what sounds like a quick idea. Which isn't bad, but isn't exactly very thrilling either.

A downside of the film is the audio - and no, it's not the compression. smile
It's the actual recording and soundmixing that's not too overwhelming. Which is a shame, given the film is so dialogue heavy. Some parts sound fine. Other fall flat and sound muddled.

I think Covers Story was stronger. Had more of an impact. This one lacks that extra Punch covers story had. Still a solid effort for 24 hours, once again.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:54pm

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SilverDragon7

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I also forgot to say that I loved the actor who played Watts, he did such a good job!

This movie will go on an iPod video I should be getting soon, along with BTL and Cover's Story. I wonder what you guys could produce with VisionLab, instead of ELab Lite.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 9:56pm

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jfreedan

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I liked this film. I think the acting was pretty good, but more importantly, the film LOOKS good. Doing that in 24 hours is no small feat.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 10:44pm

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Atom

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Sollthar wrote:

It's the actual recording and soundmixing that's not too overwhelming. Which is a shame, given the film is so dialogue heavy. Some parts sound fine. Other fall flat and sound muddled
Again, Cover's Story wasn't miked at all, and this was completely, so I don't see how it is muddled. (Certain time, perhaps? It would help me figure out why.) The audio was all done on the same mic, mono, and then filled to both speakers. The audio on the interrogation scene is a straight shoot, no voiceovers or change in mike or position, so.? I don't know, I guess I need specifics.

What a picky answerer I am, eh? wink

Thank, btw, jfreedan. Yeah, SilverDragon, we love Tyrien, who played Watts. He actually left in the middle of the day to go to some sort of graduation thing, put on his cap and gown in the car over his wardrobe, and immediately came back an hour and a half later with all his lines memorized and then some. Really amazing, actually. On the DVDs I'm making, you can watch the second take in which him and the interrogator go straight through all the lines (nearly 4 minutes of dialogue) in perfect sync with eachother without ever messing up or stumbling.

Ergo, there was much more talk from Watts about 'positive and negative influence' and 'life is an illusion, a balance', but for timing of the movie and keeping it under 5 minutes, and just general exhaustion during editing on my part, most of the dialogue was cut.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 10:50pm

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SilverDragon7

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When are DVDs expected?
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 11:04pm

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Garrison

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Atom wrote:

Sollthar wrote:

It's the actual recording and soundmixing that's not too overwhelming. Which is a shame, given the film is so dialogue heavy. Some parts sound fine. Other fall flat and sound muddled
Again, Cover's Story wasn't miked at all, and this was completely, so I don't see how it is muddled. (Certain time, perhaps? It would help me figure out why.) The audio was all done on the same mic, mono, and then filled to both speakers. The audio on the interrogation scene is a straight shoot, no voiceovers or change in mike or position, so.? I don't know, I guess I need specifics.
I think once instance of being muddled is at 0:24 where Watts starts saying "Do you know what the definition of Redemption is..." comes in soft and the bumps up at 0:29.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 11:07pm

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ben3308

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SilverDragon:

In about a week or so, I suppose.

They'll have three separate commentaries inclusive of the one you've already heard, an interview-style making of that talks to everyone involved about the project, a quick grading/lighting tutorial, and maybe some concept art or whatnot.

It should have some nice graphic design on the box and disc, akin to the website I've got going for it (atomic-pro.com), so the DVDs should look pretty good.

Garrison:

Ah, that'd be the boom operator struggling to pan the boom pole over to each person as they say their lines.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 11:26pm

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SilverDragon7

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That will be a nice touch to them... Are they free or do they come with a small price?
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 11:29pm

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ben3308

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If we decide to distribute any of them beyond our friends and family, most likely with a small price, DVDs (as Sollthar I'm sure knows) aren't cheap to make, what with the packaging, labeling, shipping, and such.

And if we do send out anything, it'll likely come with Cover's Story or SC or the like.
Posted: Wed, 30th May 2007, 11:33pm

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SilverDragon7

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Okay wink. It was kinda a dumb question to ask, what is free nowadays.

:EDIT: If you need help creating the menus and what-not, I do have Sony DVD Architect (sp?) 4.0
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 3:12am

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SGB

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Hmm. This is one of the hardest to judge films I've seen. I'm just really not sure with this one.

First off, the movie did have an impact on me after it was over. A sort of "woa..." I wasn't quite sure what I'd just seen, or what it meant, but in the back of my brain I was sure that there was some deep message here. So all that is a good thing. Once I read that you guys didn't know what it meant either, I was sort of let down...

Right after I finished it, I watched it twice more, and the first impression I had was that the movie ended without a sense of closure. When it ended, i was thinking "wait - its over?" I felt that there wasn't quite enough story, I couldn't tell where the movie went.

The movie revolves around the killing of one of the characters, but that character is introduced at the end of the movie. The whole idea of "redemption" is never really explained, who was redeeming who?

The girl pulls a gun out of nowhere after making no effort to separte to guys in a fight (and in which niether seemed to be in mortal danger), and she shoots the attacker in the chest. That doesn't really make any sense, especially since that girl is made out to be a 'good guy' so to speak when she's trying to help out falcone. Why wouldn't she try to separate them, or shoot the attacker in the leg?

Now, please don't get the impression that I hated this film after ranting about its flaws. I did not hate it. I didn't even dislike it. As I said before, I did enjoy it, but mostly because of that "wow" feeling and the sense that I'd missed something huge, and really deep. And the acting was spot on.

The main character (tyrein i think) definitly made the movie. He was perfect, and the opening to the movie was simply superb. As I saw him acting and being interogated, I couldn't help but cheer for you guys. Yes, they made something really good, they got this actor to preform amazingly well, they wrote some pretty damn good dialogue. The dialogue then took a turn for the "heavier" and "deeper", and i had the sense that there was somthing really cool that was going to be revealed.

The rest of the film didn't quite match the amazing opening. The guy who looked like Anakin Skywalker (think he was in splinter cell) was ok. The girl wasn't quite as good as him. And kid who was killed in the end was worse than her. I did like how he died in the end (not being cynical), that was very well done.

The music was superb. Was it original? if so, that is really somthign incredible.

I was suprised with some of the shakey shots. Looks like a sticky tripod. They took away a lot from the movie for me, really a shame.

All in all, the movie didn't really make so much sense, but I sort of liked that in a wierd way, i had a sense that there was somthing bigger.

Summary: Acting was, for the most part, really good. The opening was great. Cinematography was decent, some parts bothered me with shakey camera/sticky tripod. Lighting in the first scene was great, i loved the fog. The movie overall didn't make much sense in terms of story and so on.

And I have no idea what to rate it. I liked it, but it didn't make senes. It was a fantastic mess, a beautiful wreck. I don't even know what to call it.

One the one hand, I liked Cover's Story more because it had a much clearer story, acting was overall better, but on the other it didn't have the "wow" factor.

I'm completely undecided.

Overall, great job for 24 hours. I'm really shocked you managed to pull all this off in so little time (sure you didn't cheat? wink ).

Great work guys,

SGB
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 4:16am

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SilverDragon7

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Well with a small time slot as this, it's going to be harder to give the audience a story that is explained fully.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 4:17am

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SGB

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

Well with a small time slot as this, it's going to be harder to give the audience a story that is explained fully.
So what? Should a movie be judged by how hard it was to make?
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 4:21am

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SilverDragon7

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No, I would judge the movie on the look and feel, the dialogue, the plot, the way it used the critriea for the competition, the acting, etc.

I'm sure the could have explained the story a bit more, but in 24-hours it's gonna be a bit hard.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 4:32am

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SGB

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Exactly. Impressing everyone with a movie that was done in no time is just impressive, it may or may not be a good movie.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 4:36am

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Serpent

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I thought this was visually pretty awesome (maybe a little too dark at some parts), and I liked the music. Sound effects were meh, I would have had a nicer set of audio prepared. The acting was fantastic. I really thought this lost it in the writing. The theme was a little hard to follow and I thought the dialogue in the speech sounded improv-ish. I really didn't know why these two men were talking about this. I also thought some of the audio at the beginning seemed kind of muffled. Anyways, great work for the time restraint. You've inspired me to enter the 48 Hour Film project in VA Beach. I'll be posting my attempt at such a time limit after the weekend of June 15th (first Summer weekend, thank God...) I'll give this a 4/5, which is a little nice. If it weren't done in 24 hours, I'd give it a solid 3. I think your team should, next year, focus more on the writing because this is where it was lost to me. Cover's Story was fantastic and seemed to flow a little more with a (middle), beginning, middle, and end. It also was pulled off much better than this was.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 5:47am

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Atom

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The writing is my fault. Somehow we got stuck onto racial-'look at how bad society has become' themes and stories during brainstorming, and I just didn't like it so I thought up the basics to Redemption with a high-concept, high-philosophy delivery in mind. The writing was trying to be less like Cover's Story to avoid looking, to the judges, like we couldn't do anything else. I would've preferred a narrative-style like Cover's Story, but playing to our strengths and locations all we could really come up with was something very similar to a kidnapping and rescue, ergo Cover's Story. Somewhere in this, using what we had and playing on our biggest assets, the story we had was born.

I wrote it all with direct meaning and symbolism, not just to sound cool. (although, I can guarantee you that's all Ben cared about wink) Tyrien, the lead, jumped on it and added/changed lines to flow better with him, ergo "as above so below". I didn't get it, but I got the script and understood the concepts I was going for, SGB. I hate it when people throw pretentious topics trying to look deep and can't comprehend/explain them themselves.

*cough* Crash! *cough*

Serpent: Improvish how? Improv to me means 'natural' or 'not cookie-cutter/typecast', so what draws it down in this? As a writer, I tried to make it flow and, since we were using big philosophy, make it seem not-pre-written. Hopefully improvish keeps it from seeming that way, I guess, right?

SGB: Maybe it's the cuts, or maybe it's the writing not facilitating the true potential of the actos, but Kathryn (the sister) is truthfully a great actress who, at least I thought, pulled off some really cheesy lines without giving off that 'embarassing to watch' vibe. Chase (Anakin...hehe, don't know where you got that view of him from) was on crew and subbed in when we didn't have a lead white male that the script called for. He's in school for voice and great technically, so it's downright amazing to us he manages to pack in that dramatic acting ability. The last guy, Josh the Druggie, cannot act at all, but we all think he did a great job in the choreography and grittiness of his character, especially in his eyes at the end and in his yelling on the ground.

Either way, we're happy we produced a distinctly different and (hopefully) technically proficient film in 24 hours with some great actors. I think we're all just a little nostalgic about the strengths in the writing of Cover's Story when watching this, eh? I know I am.

The 48 Hour Film Project VA, huh, Serpent? Aside from the sleep-deprivation-induced drama halfway through the race and the "we're not gonna finish on time" feeling at the last hour, videoraces are loads of fun and generally produce quality stuff, or at least show yourself how much you can realistically do in a short time.

We're doing the Austin 48 Hour in June and the Dallas 48 Hour in July, and if both of us, although doubtful, get 'Best of City', we could end up competing against eachother.

Wouldn't that be a fun, small world. smile
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 6:20am

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Lior

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This film is very good. I love the cammera work and all. I am amazed It was done within 24 hrs. Sure theres more work to be done but anybody that can pull of an amazing peice like this within a 24 hr time frame is a 5/5 in my book.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 7:01am

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miker

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This was pretty well made. I have to say it was a tad confusing.. but I still like the whole idea you were going for. I liked the camera work (for the most part). The lighting during the "interview" was pretty good (a tad dark at times, compression?). I thought the music was.. ehh.. so so.. probably because I've heard some of the music before (Sean Beeson, by chance?). That threw it off a little. The acting was probably the strongest aspect of this film. The "fight scene" had some sound effects that were out of place, and some sounded completely fake. But hey, you were rushed, and it's understandable.

3/5 - as it is now.

If you had been allowed a little more time to work on this.. I'm sure the rating would be different. I think this idea had a lot of potential.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 3:04pm

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davlin

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I must apolgise for not reviewing more of the cinema films without prompting......so I thought I'll have lok at "Redemption".
I had a look at the posts on this and to be fair was'nt expecting
much......well I was extremely surprised at how well made this was and under the 24hour circumstances it borders on excellent.
Your "grading" was just great and the acting was first class all round.I loved the atmosphere of this movie it was handled perfectly
with well placed lighting and some very slick camera work.
Only possible moan from me was the final "punch-up"...it just did'nt quite get there but it was still well done.
Well done to your gang and 5stars.

O'l Dav
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 10:21pm

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Nutbar

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The film was pretty solid as far as the visuals and the acting were concerned however there were 2 things which let it down in my opinion. The first being the story, it was potentially a very good story, but I felt you didn't give yourself enough time to tell it. I don't think you did yourself justice by writing it as an under 5 min short. The second gripe was the sound effects during the fight scene, it sounded more suited to an early 90s compter game.

I noticed in the credits you had someone on pyrotechnics and I did see a hint of a possible squib used for the gunshot but I didn't notice any blood, or did I miss it?

Anyhow, I enjoyed the film and given it was done in such a short time I think you did a very good job. 4/5
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 11:15pm

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SGB

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After much indecision, I decided to rate this a 4. The great acting and wonderfully set music set a perfect mood for the movie, and watching it never gets tiring.

Great job guys. Be proud of this one. But also, try taking a week to make a movie. If you can do this in one day, think what you could do in a week. And a week is pretty damn fast.
Posted: Thu, 31st May 2007, 11:16pm

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

Serpent: Improvish how? Improv to me means 'natural' or 'not cookie-cutter/typecast', so what draws it down in this? As a writer, I tried to make it flow and, since we were using big philosophy, make it seem not-pre-written. Hopefully improvish keeps it from seeming that way, I guess, right?
Improvish not in a good way, but more like he was spitting out ridiculous philosophy as it went along. I thought he was a fantastic actor though, I think the writing made it seem like that. I suppose that could have a positive aspect, but it felt like it was going for a modern philisophical scene where the actor colloquially, yet eloquently speaks a bunch of witty lines that make sense, but could never actually be thought up on the spot in real life. Cinematically, to me, those kind of scenes work. But this fell in between natural and ambiguously cinematic and felt a little awkward.

I hope to see you guys at internationals. I suppose we have a chance as this is one of the worst film states in the country. I have no idea what talent lurks here. We just registered, this will be fun. We've worked under harsh time restraints before.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 12:36am

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KevJay

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Rating: +1

Alright, I got a chance to check this out, after seeing the very impressive screens.

I gotta say, the only thing that dissapointed me overall, was that it was way to short. There are so many unanswered questions and the ability to make it longer.

I know i know, it was a 24 hour race, but I really would have to say, keep going on this man. You've got an extremely great small little package for a short film that could be expanded into something really amazing, but this just feels like a very condensed form of something that should be bigger.

Anyway with that aside, ill continue.

Technical side -

Camera work: As usual, the camera work of this film is top notch. Very good angles, the dolly shots for the interrogation scenes are very very professional, love how it moves and doesn't just stay static, I am so glad to see you took a break and saved the guerrilla style filming for scenes where it was more appropriate

I gotta make a point on the contrast, It has been said before that you go way to heavy on the contrast, but I feel that, even in the darker interrogation scenes, you used it extremely well. The picture looks amazing, man I would love to get my hands on the high quality verson.

Sound: This is only big issue I have, as others have said before, there are some issues with the sound as far as voices being to low.

Specifically at. 26 seconds when the interrogator says "no, I don't" the sound is to low, like the boom operator was to slow in switching over to him, and then again at 29ish 30 seconds when the main charactor is saying "a deliverance from evil without...." the begining of his sentence is low as if the boom operator is slow dragging the mic over to him.

That and the punching sounds and the interrogators weird over-powering cell phone ring, but that is just nitpick stuff that once again, since it was a 24 hour race, isn't a problem, but Id like to see you guys work on something longer than 24 hours.

Editing: Top notch, Im sure there were a few spots where it could have been tightened up a bit, but again the 24 hour thing, so yeah.

Lighting: Another high point of the film. Superb lighting. Not a single problem at all.

Acting: The two first characters did an absolutely superb job acting. It was very convincing and drew me in from the start, but sadly i felt that the first few lines of the character int he white hat, weren't good. It felt to read and not spoken. The rest of his lines were fine though. The Girl did great

Story/Plot: Im really not sure what to make of it, What i saw was a guy talking about the downfall of another guy, who i guess was trying to pull out but got in a scuffle with the dude in the kitchen after he was trying to deal it back to him? I dunno, you lose no points for confusion because im just to stupid to understand i guess haha.

The strongest part of the movie, was unfortunately the biggest let down im afraid. The kitchen scene started out fantastic, the fight scene, although lessened with the cheap fight punches, was fantastic. I just think the random gun being pulled outa nowhere wasn't to great, after reading some reviews about it, I figured it would probably be great seeing as how Cover's Story randomly had a gun but turned out great. I sadly have to say though that it didn't work out to well for this one.

Overall, I have to give this a 4/5

It has its flaws, but this can be fix by just simply spending more time on it. You've got a great great great start here I think, but like i said before, it is just way to condensed, and i know it was for the 24 hour race thing, but man, just spend some more time on this and make it longer! biggrin

Great film Atom, Can't wait to see more!
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 12:44am

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Penguin

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Well, the other people have mostly summed it up all ready, so I'll keep this short: it's good technically, I loved the grading and camera work, and the idea is good, but it's a tad hard to follow and it's too short for my liking. Over all, it's very good for a 24 hour movie. I'm still deciding between a 3 and a 4.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 2:05am

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Big Rob

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I liked it. I mean, to take this from start to finish in 24 hours and have something that makes any sense at all is a great accomplishment. It did seem like the story was compressed but the acting and camera work was great.
Good job guys!
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 4:13am

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ben3308

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Thanks for all the great comments, guys! I'm gonna go ahead and address things in a random order, haha, so here goes:

The Squib


Yeah, it did have blood, but unfortunately from the two angles we had, you couldn't see it splatter. If you notice on Falcone's face in the outdoor stuff it looks as if he has freckles; that's really spatter from the squib! See, we couldn't get to filming anything until about 2:00pm because of complications with our actors (I know, crazy!), so we filmed the fight scenes first, then the outdoor stuff, then the interrogation, which we wrapped at about 9:00pm. From there my brother worked his as off for an hour to edit so we could rush the tape to the finish line.

Haha, so yeah, there was blood, I guess the camera just didn't pick it up. On the DVD you'll get to see the rough cut takes of all the tests we had to do beforehand to ensure safety, and they are blood-laden. Our final angle wasn't near what I wanted for the squib shot, but you get what you get with explosives, even though we had them electronically controlled. You think using a squib is bad, you should've seen my friend Ben H. at 7-11 with a bunch of guys trying to justify buying condoms for the squibs. Now that was funny!

The Sound


About the muffled sound in the beginning: haha, yeah, we had some tired boom operators. By the final scene- which, as I just mentioned, was unfortunately filmed last- everyone was so tired, including myself (I was the only one who didn't get a wink of sleep, everyone else still only got about an hour or two, save the actors) and so we were all a bit unenthused to hold the boom. If you look at the credits, three people are under "boom operator" because the main guy was falling asleep while holding it, heh.


I'm in the green. Everyone else is overshadowed by the lights. We're ALL tired, haha.

The Acting

So glad a lot of people are admiring the acting, the people in it were real troopers throughout the entire show and we truly couldn't have done it without them. We actually couldn't get anyone to act the part of Falcone, save our friend Reese- the kidnapped brother from Cover's Story who just looks entirely too young, albeit being 15- and so, at the last minute, friend and co-cinematographer Chase readily jumped into the position.

It wasn't near what we planned, but it was only 24 hours, so we had no choice. You take what you get, haha, and what you see is what we got. We were blessed to have so many acting talents, and I really wish we could've given Kathryn, the girl, a larger chance to "prove" herself, as she's really very talented.

The Story

Unfortunately, the plot and storyline was a bit of a disappointment to many people, including us. We wanted to tell a larger story, and in five minutes and 24 hours, there's just no time. We would've opted for an easier narrative, but we wanted to prove to ourselves and to the judges that we could do something a bit different, and, hopefully, be successful.

I wish we'd had time to shoot the whole, unabridged script and include Watts' whole four minute dialogue, but there was no time. Again, heh, the DVD will have the whole dialogue and everything on it, so you can be the judge.

Overall

On the whole, I want to thank everyone for taking the time to watch, review, and rate this movie; your words are truly appreciated. Our next coming project is a "Day of the Hobo" remake, and that should prove interesting.

Regards, Ben
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 6:50am

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MC Turtl3n3ck

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Cinematography: Brilliant
Grading: Excellent
Overall FX: Excellent
Sound Quality: Decent (unbearable at times)
Sound FX: Horrible

Great job though guys.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 9:09am

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fxmaniac

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hey there. i have subscribed to you on youtube and the other day when i logged in i saw it and i thought it was really well done.the score fitted perfectly the low level lighting in the questioning room really added to the overall feel of the shoot. the sounds on the punces were really good too and all the acting was brilliant i gave it five stars.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 12:18pm

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Klut

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Of what I've seen, this is my favourite "atom bros film" razz

The acting was excellent, so was the plot. I really enjoyed the grading as well (which looked better in VLC than in Quick Time for some reason). The only thing I didn't like was the sound. The sound was awful in some places.

I see no reason giving this something else than a 5.
I'm not trying to kiss your ass or something, I just really enjoyed this.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 2:26pm

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ben3308

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Thanks Klut, and I feel really bad about giving your tribute a 1 when you gave us a 5. I still think it probably deserves it, I just feel bad about it.

But thanks for the kind words!
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 8:20pm

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jmax

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Well Atom Bros. I think this was a very well done film for what it was too. The fact that it was done entirely in a day is amazing, especially when the slick camerawork, superb lighting, and solid grading are taken into account. I love the pan on Watts, you guys finally abandoned the "Bourne" feel for this one evidently. biggrin The sound was alright, and the fight could have used some work too. But some quality has to be sacrificed when working against time like that. I thought you chose the least damaging areas to loosen up a little. Which is tough, because "Where are you okay with your film being weak?" is a difficult question for any respectable director. The script was alright, and the actors (once again, save the girl) seemed to pick up the slack wherever it felt weak. Watts and his investigator were especially impressive. All in all, great job guys. I enjoyed this a lot. It provides a pretty inspiring insight as to how far teamwork and effort can carry a movie in just 24 hours.
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 11:20pm

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Atom

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Thanks, jmax!

Again, we think the girl's acting, Kathryn, is top-notch. Maybe it's too melodramatic for some peoples taste, though. Either way, thanks!
Posted: Fri, 1st Jun 2007, 11:44pm

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CX3

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This film was great, visually. The black actor reminded me of Denzel Washington at times on certain lines that he delivered, which is a def good thing. I was really into this until it cut to the guy with the backwords cap. No offense to him at all but he didnt fit that part to me.

He didnt seem like a drug dealer. I think the lisp at the end of "I cant pull you into thissth" took me out of it immediately. But I can understand being in a 24hr fest, you cant really open up casting calls ha. I did like the drug dealer better the 2nd time we saw him in his house tho.

The ending was straight out of the 3rd or 4th season finale of The O.C. So I wasnt too shocked when I saw that. (And Im not saying that you all stole it from the oc directly. I doubt you all even watch that show. I stopped watching after they killed off Mischa Barton... Idiots... Not you, the producers of The OC ha) You should've had the girl run off instead of casually walk off screen to her gun tho. When she walked off I was thinkin "Oh maybe she left somethin in the oven and its burning.. or maybe the phone rang" not "Oh, shes about to end this guy"

As for the audio, sometimes its really good and then it goes to crap pretty quickly. You said its cuz the sound guy kept falling asleep..? I dont know if that was just some weak excuse for the bad audio or not. I guess we're diff in the fact that I would be damned if I had a sound guy fall asleep on a shoot of mine. Ha, u better get strict man. In that case, wear the headphones so you can hear what audio is being produced.

As a film I'd give it 3/5 but knowing the fact that it was done in 24hrs bumps it to a 4/5 for me cuz thats just impressive. Good work.

And make something longer already hah.

-Chris
Posted: Sat, 2nd Jun 2007, 2:42am

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TimmyD

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Weeeeelp I gave you my review on AIM. My only complaints were one or two bad SFX, and the darkness of some shots of the interrogation scene. Lighting was very good there, but sometimes the shot was just too dark.

5/5 from me, but I feel like I should've voted 4/5, after re-watching. I know the difficulties of shooting a flick in such a short period of time, and I commend you for the abiliy to get past that and make good films. So, in the end, 4.5/5, which rounds to 5/5.

Acting was top-notch.

TimmyD
Posted: Sat, 2nd Jun 2007, 3:02am

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Atom

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Rating: +1

CX3 wrote:

This film was great, visually. The black actor reminded me of Denzel Washington at times on certain lines that he delivered, which is a def good thing.
Hehe, that was what we called him, "Denzel", last year after we all saw him in our friend Chase's (The white backwards cap guy) movie Pegasus. Never got around to calling him that this year, though.

He didnt seem like a drug dealer. I think the lisp at the end of "I cant pull you into thissth" took me out of it immediately. But I can understand being in a 24hr fest, you cant really open up casting calls ha. I did like the drug dealer better the 2nd time we saw him in his house tho.
Well, what can you do, right? He's got braces nowadays and I guess sometimes you lisp. Granted, it would've been better to have a more 'street' looking person, but as student filmmakers in a 24 hour competition, you're right. You take what you can get and work with what you have.

The ending was straight out of the 3rd or 4th season finale of The O.C. So I wasnt too shocked when I saw that. (And Im not saying that you all stole it from the oc directly. I doubt you all even watch that show. I stopped watching after they killed off Mischa Barton... Idiots... Not you, the producers of The OC ha) You should've had the girl run off instead of casually walk off screen to her gun tho. When she walked off I was thinkin "Oh maybe she left somethin in the oven and its burning.. or maybe the phone rang" not "Oh, shes about to end this guy"
Well, she walked/ran off weirdly, there's no way around it. That's why it quickly cuts to a wide in which she isn't there. Once it's in the can, though, and good enough, it's hard to fix. It's really funny you should mention the OC. I've never seen it, save the scene you're talking about at a friends house, and once we were finished filming that scene and it got brought to me to edit, I couldn't help but laugh my ass off at the similarities.

I got so caught up in it, and was so sleep deprived, I produced this for fun and to keep myself awake:
Redemption Spoof Ending.

Thanks either way, Chris. We appreciate it. Oh, an Timmy, yeah I got your comments on AIM. Thanks, man.
Posted: Sat, 2nd Jun 2007, 4:39am

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CX3

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I got so caught up in it, and was so sleep deprived, I produced this for fun and to keep myself awake:
Redemption Spoof Ending.
You have GOT to be kidding me LOL. Dood I just laughed so hard right now and I still am. Whats crazy is that I was just thinkin about that SNL Digital short this morning when I woke up and tellin myself to get on youtube and watch it again. I did not see that coming at all with that spoof ending lol. Can I re-rate this movie to a 5/5? Tarn make it a 5 damnit! hahah
Posted: Sat, 2nd Jun 2007, 4:58am

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Atom

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Haha, PM Tarn and I'm sure it's possible.

I mean, it's Tarn. wink
Posted: Sat, 2nd Jun 2007, 2:22pm

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jmax

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Hahaha I love the alternate ending. By the way seeing that guy fall over dead in slo-mo again makes me realize that he took a pretty nice elbow to the drug-dealer's stomach as he went down. I'm surprised the guy was able to keep playing dead through that.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 6:22pm

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FCRabbath

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What a great film, truly one of my favorites on here. 5/5
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 6:29pm

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ben3308

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Thanks so much, man! Coming from you- probably the best independent filmmaker I've seen- that means a lot!
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 7:26pm

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SilverDragon7

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Your work is just great.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 9:28am

Post 63 of 92

chase

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Rating: +1

He didnt seem like a drug dealer. I think the lisp at the end of "I cant pull you into thissth" took me out of it immediately. But I can understand being in a 24hr fest, you cant really open up casting calls ha. I did like the drug dealer better the 2nd time we saw him in his house tho.
Ok so this is the interesting part. Ben and I directed and shot this film and I, having professional acting experience, was the one who got stuck into the part. We can't have open casting calls unfortunately. So I sucked it up that I was the only one to play the part, and so I did as best i could...as the director filling in as an actor.

CX3 wrote:

This film was great, visually. The black actor reminded me of Denzel Washington at times on certain lines that he delivered, which is a def good thing.
Haha I'm glad everyone likes him. He's on his way to Julliard for acting, and believe me, he's got plenty of scholarship money. Someone mentioned him seeming like he was talking to fast or something, but again, the actors are under the same time crunch as the filmmakers. And when you're acting on little to no sleep...you start blanking a bit on lines.


AUDIO

Audio is something that I know more about in this group, and believe me I know every problem that we had. The boom operator was moving back and forth between Tyrien and Roger in the interrogation scene, and at one point our boom operator had the mic pointed at the middle of the table...totally useless!! sound has always been something i've always thought to be the most important...but it's often overlooked when I work on projects with ben and andrew, they do tend to care less about audio and more about the grading and shooting (both very important). I had hoped to take the video into soundtrack pro and edit some GOOD foley into the film, as well as boost some levels at certain parts and EQ some of the vocals...and i really tried for it, but we just didn't have time, and the vegas we used supposedly didn't have any audio controls...at all. Anyways, on the next project we'll just know to train our boom operators instead expect them to know something they don't, make more time to sweeten audio, and use software that doesn't limit us.


LIGHTING

TimmyD wrote:

Weeeeelp I gave you my review on AIM. My only complaints were one or two bad SFX, and the darkness of some shots of the interrogation scene. Lighting was very good there, but sometimes the shot was just too dark.
Yes yes yes, I went out and rented 2 1000 watt fresnels and I think it definately added to the interrogation scene. The shot looked dark because SOME people like to put too much contrast in post wink. I've already debated that one, but andrew and ben insist that it's fine. I think it's too dark too. The original footage was pretty bright.


oh and by the way...andrew had the OC thing already planned from the getgo...it was deliberate, not coincidental...of course we all thought it was funny. Whoever it was that caught that kudos to you!

Last edited Sun, 10th Jun 2007, 5:42pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 3:45pm

Post 64 of 92

Atom

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The fact that you got a +1 for ranting and playing the "blame game" on everyone else, as well as making victim-like comments on glory-hogs is laughable.

Mostly because you refer to the movie three times as "Ben and I"s movie, and never include the third wheel. And you're the one left out of the main group. Sure. Ask someone on here, that knows of us, I'm sure they'll say you're just as much included.

But you're the victim. Lawl. That just ain't true. You want to discuss this further, call me up and leave this melodramatic, unwarranted and partly untrue 'poor me' babble out of the forums.

Last edited Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 3:46pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 3:45pm

Post 65 of 92

ben3308

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chase wrote:

Sorry, I just put a lot into this film and sacrificed a lot for it and it's never fun when someone takes all the glory for themselves, doesn't tell you when they're posting your movie, and inadvertently leaving you with the last comment no one reads.
This is sort of a useless rant as I believe did inform you the movie was up and never claimed to solely make the movie. It's easy to see how you might feel left out; but this is FXHome. I didn't say who did what because, frankly, people don't care. More often than not, boom operators on someone's movie will post stuff up.

Moreover, attempting to bolster your own pride by undermining your colleagues' credibility- a la the OC comment, which is untrue; and the jabs at contrast and editing with words like "supposedly" which implies that it wasn't your mistake- only serves to make yourself look better while making your friends look worse. Is this really what you were trying to do? Do you think it bodes well for an audience if the filmmakers can't even keep their own arguments to themselves?

This is a personal issue of yours and this really isn't the time or place to discuss it. I didn't want to label anyone the "director" so instead I went with co-cinematographers, if you failed to read this:

I wrote:

and so, at the last minute, friend and co-cinematographer Chase readily jumped into the position.
Don't think we're out to steal your thunder. Just, in this case, nobody on here cares whose thunder goes where. smile
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 4:24pm

Post 66 of 92

CX3

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Ok so this is the interesting part. Ben and I directed and shot this film and I, having professional acting experience, was the one who got stuck into the part. We can't have open casting calls unfortunately. So I sucked it up that I was the only one to play the part, and so I did as best i could...as the director filling in as an actor.
I could have fun doin a mock video post of this paragraph. You prob didnt mean to come off this way (or maybe you did, iunno) but it sounded a lil conceited hah.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 4:59pm

Post 67 of 92

chase

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Ben, I understand, but you have to admit that i'm the last to hear about all these things. It's hard for me since you and andrew are brothers, it seems like you go off like you have all control of the film. I think it's great when we post on here, I guess i just would have liked to have been in the forum and known it was there when you put it up ya know? Anyways, I wrote that at freakin 4 a.m. and i'm sitting here laughing at myself at some stuff that i said, so i appologize for comming accross arrogant, that was not at all my point, and i appologize for that. I just got stuck in parts that i originally was never meant to play, and that's no ones fault, it just happened. Anyways, next time ya'll post a movie that WE have done, just make sure that I know right when you do it, that way i can be in on the fun of talking about our project.

sidenote
for ben and andrew's sake, it's not like they do this on purpose to be menacing or anything, they're just having fun posting the movie and i understand that, i would just rather feel more included than unintentionally excluded in that process.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 5:03pm

Post 68 of 92

Atom

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This isn't the time or place, Chase. And for a note, I posted the movie, not Ben. The sole reason people ask/talk to him about it is because he commands a sense of involvement and speaks up. You have an account just as easily accessible as he does.

I told you this was up yesterday, it's only been up a day or two. If you feel excluded, then know it's only been excluded from 48 hours or so of conversation. Instead of throwing out a diatribe about who did what, simply introduce yourself as 'Chase' (I'm sure people will know who you are, in all seriousness), and what you did and give your thanks and leave it at that.

Oh, and, happy brithday. wink
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 5:09pm

Post 69 of 92

ben3308

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Chase, ultimately, my issue with the whole thing is that nobody outside of you, me, and Atom cares about who did what. It simply doesn't matter to people. They don't know us, so why should they care?

Going out of my way to outline who did what doesn't really do the movie any favors, so it's often better just to say things when the opportunity is afforded; as I did when I made my long post mentioning everything.

You're just paranoid, dude, don't worry about it. wink
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 7:54pm

Post 70 of 92

MC Turtl3n3ck

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[quote="ben3308"]Chase, ultimately, my issue with the whole thing is that nobody outside of you, me, and Atom cares about who did what. It simply doesn't matter to people. They don't know us, so why should they care?

Going out of my way to outline who did what doesn't really do the movie any favors, so it's often better just to say things when the opportunity is afforded; as I did when I made my long post mentioning everything./quote]

Thank God you said what I didn't have the heart to.

Jesus Christ Chase, you sounded like the whiniest egotistical prick ever with that whiny b1tchy rant.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 12:23am

Post 71 of 92

Arktic

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This was ok. Too clichéd and melodramatic for me - there was no meat to the story. There was no characterisation, no sense of atmosphere... there was no real indication of how any of the characters related to each other... who was the man talking to Watts? Who WAS Watts?

These weren't properly 'framed' and set up questions for the audience; yes, sometimes you want your audience to question certain things about the storyline - but here the questions that the audience will be asking aren't the kind of questions that you want them to be asking - rather than the audience being left to ponder on things, they're just left feeling confused because not all the information needed to understand the story has been given to them.

Technically, most of this was pretty good. Nothing stood out as terrible, but nothing stood out as amazing either. The main problem with this, for me, was the lack of proper storytelling.

For me, 90% of the story here was exposition. Exposition wrapped up in overly angsty dialogue (two things I really can't stand)... It's almost as if you KNEW the plot wasn't going to work properly, and so dressed it up with this daft metaphysical dialogue. I know that's not what you did, obviously, but that's how it came accross to me.

I can see the angle you've tried to go for, but you've really badly missed the mark in my opinion - what you wanted to be a third person narrative that is intriguing and compelling ends up coming accross as lazy script writing and trying to cram in too much plot - so much so that you don't really tell any story at all.

I think that whoever wrote this could really do with reading a few books on scriptwriting. That's not intended to be an insult, I think that there were some nice ideas here, but they were so bogged down in a script that relied so heavily upon a poor 'narration' device, that they weren't utilised to their full potential. I read a *really* good book that someone reccomended to me when I was finishing my final uni project, though the name escapes me right now... When I remember I'll let you know smile

Here, it felt like the Watts character was explaining the entire story through his dialogue - which is a big mistake. You should explain things as much as possible through action. And here, I felt that almost none of the story was related through the action, as opposed to the dialogue.

I hope you take this as a learning experience - I think you were just too ambitious, and came up with a plot that just doesn't work with a five minute format. Five minutes is a long time, and you can get in a lot of characterisation, and you can tell the story through the action at the same time - but I just think you failed to do either of these things sufficiently with this piece.

I do think that it's a brave effort, and the technical side of things isn't too bad, especially given the time constraints. I wasn't even put off by the bad sound, to a large degree. But, in all, it left me cold and bored, because of the poor script.

I'd give it a two, but because it's a 24 hour piece, I'll give it a three.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 1:07am

Post 72 of 92

Atom

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I appreciate your comments, Arktic. I took a stab at the writing this time, and while my plot was a little bold and perhaps too ambitious, I really tried to make it work in the symbolism of the dialogue.

Arktic wrote:

This was ok. Too clichéd and melodramatic for me - there was no meat to the story. There was no characterisation, no sense of atmosphere... there was no real indication of how any of the characters related to each other... who was the man talking to Watts? Who WAS Watts?
Watts was the black guy, Arktic, read the credits. wink

These weren't properly 'framed' and set up questions for the audience; yes, sometimes you want your audience to question certain things about the storyline - but here the questions that the audience will be asking aren't the kind of questions that you want them to be asking - rather than the audience being left to ponder on things, they're just left feeling confused because not all the information needed to understand the story has been given to them
The main problem, if you're looking at the plot, isn't at all the storytelling, it's the script. The story flows throughout the movie and has a revealing edge the entire time, does it not? Is that not good storytelling?

See, (in all seriousness, not try to make excuses here) I wrote it and plotted it out, and left those hypothetical questions of yours out and unanswered simply because I was afforded the ability. In a 5 minute movie, at least for someone watching it once, the motives behind being there don't really matter, and leave it open to the audience.

What isn't seen or heard can't be assumed. I know it's somewhat of a shallow plot with big ideas, but in 24 hours and in a 5 minute movie, is that really a problem?

For me, 90% of the story here was exposition. Exposition wrapped up in overly angsty dialogue (two things I really can't stand)... It's almost as if you KNEW the plot wasn't going to work properly, and so dressed it up with this daft metaphysical dialogue. I know that's not what you did, obviously, but that's how it came accross to me.
I don't see how I could know the plot wouldn't work. (I see you got that, nevermind.) But, most certainly I fail to see how there isn't a clear plot or clear storytelling. While the scenes and script in-question may have pretentious flavors that 'might' be unfit for a 5 minute movie, the way it is unfolded, at least IMO, isn't flawed.

Watts is someone who knows Falcone. Whether he's God or a friend or just a narrator talking without any actual interaction, he knows him. Good storytelling, maybe not screenwriting, but storytelling, doesn't try to make you know everything, and that's what I was going for.

I can see the angle you've tried to go for, but you've really badly missed the mark in my opinion - what you wanted to be a third person narrative that is intriguing and compelling ends up coming accross as lazy script writing and trying to cram in too much plot - so much so that you don't really tell any story at all.

I think that whoever wrote this could really do with reading a few books on scriptwriting. That's not intended to be an insult, I think that there were some nice ideas here, but they were so bogged down in a script that relied so heavily upon a poor 'narration' device, that they weren't utilised to their full potential. I read a *really* good book that someone reccomended to me when I was finishing my final uni project, though the name escapes me right now... When I remember I'll let you know smile
Haha, no harm done. You put 'in my opinion' on everything, so I'm not offended, it's simply your opinion. The only thing that really gets me is, while the plot-progression may have relied too much on the narration, I absolutely don't think (maybe I'm reading this wrong, though) that it is "a poor 'narration' device".

If anything, I think the third-person-narrative works well in storytelling (Mare-wedge! wink) and is a good dynamic element in this movie. It's all solid dialogue that throws around symbolism and tries (hopefully with success) to be clear. Whether or not this appealed to you is one thing, but IMO it's nothing close to "poor".

Here, it felt like the Watts character was explaining the entire story through his dialogue - which is a big mistake. You should explain things as much as possible through action. And here, I felt that almost none of the story was related through the action, as opposed to the dialogue.
Yes, he's explaining it through dialogue. But he's speaking in direct generalization, which leads one to think he doesn't even really know Falcone. Conincidentally, things are playing out the way he's telling the story, but he's not directly saying "and then Falcone got in a fight. And then he almost died. And then".

Come on, man, there's some symbolic, archetypal, high-concept ideas in there! smile

I hope you take this as a learning experience - I think you were just too ambitious, and came up with a plot that just doesn't work with a five minute format. Five minutes is a long time, and you can get in a lot of characterisation, and you can tell the story through the action at the same time - but I just think you failed to do either of these things sufficiently with this piece.
I agree for the most part, it was unfit for 5 minutes. Thanks for the advice as always, Arktic!
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 1:14am

Post 73 of 92

Garrison

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Atom wrote:

I appreciate your comments, Arktic. I took a stab at the writing this time, and while my plot was a little bold and perhaps too ambitious, I really tried to make it work in the symbolism of the dialogue.

Arktic wrote:

This was ok. Too clichéd and melodramatic for me - there was no meat to the story. There was no characterisation, no sense of atmosphere... there was no real indication of how any of the characters related to each other... who was the man talking to Watts? Who WAS Watts?
Watts was the black guy, Arktic, read the credits. wink
I think Arktic meant who Watts was in relation to the story...

You explain it in your reply to Arktic, but I don't think it's established in your film.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 1:29am

Post 74 of 92

ben3308

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Arktic wrote:

I'd give it a two, but because it's a 24 hour piece, I'll give it a three.
Okay, so (obviously) things on FXHome should be judged objectively, but does the contrived story really push it down to a 2; a score on the lower half of the spectrum?

This has been bugging me, especially since Jabooza Clog Booza voted. I mean, unlike most other cinema submissions, we costumed our actors appropriately, chose appropriate locations, music, and props; and we lit and set-dressed our scenes. We even called a makeup artist to do the bloody nose and cracked lips on the crack addict in the end. Not even 10% of the productions on this website do any of that, and I feel that even though we made all these extra efforts, they've gone- for the most part- unnoticed and underappreciated.

I know substance in a movie is better than flashiness, but our group is trying to better solidify its technical ability before we make our stories more complex. It's one thing at a time with us. wink

And yes, I know, the obvious truth is that the audience doesn't care about what went into a movie, they care about the end result. It just seems that this year we went all out with building dollies, buying props and clothing, and improving our technicals as much as we possibly could; and all those production values are pushed aside by people who have problems with the story. This happened at the actual video judging here with my friends' movies.

It just seems that on FXHome, the commonplace "2" or "3" movie is one where a comment might be "your white balance is off in half the shots, work on that in your next movie"; whereas on this it's like "the semantics of the script just don't work for me."

Now I know that a 3 is a pretty good score, so I'm not contesting that, it just bothers me that you'd otherwise give this a 2, especially considering what else you've given that score. I mean, this is better than the PB&J, we know that! biggrin
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:02am

Post 75 of 92

Jazzmanian

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I'm coming a bit late to the dance here, but tonight I finally got to watch the entire film for a third time and let it soak in. I'll tell you in advance that I know (from a couple of PM's) that some controversy has arisin over this film, but I have chosen to skip to the last page and put in my comments *before* reading the five pages of commentary before me, so excuse me if I'm repeating themes which have already been touched on.

Comment number one: I've never been your biggest fan, and personally I wasn't all that thrilled with your 24 hour entry from last year, but I think that Redemption has got to be about one of your best efforts to date. The number of things which were simply good to excellent about this film are probably too numerous to mention. The cinematography... variety of shots, pace, mixing of various angles as the theme unfoleded... all truly excellent. You said that the plot, such as it was, might be confusing. I did not find it so. I found it to have a consistent and engrossing narrative, and it really touched home for me. Possibly because it relates to some personal situations I've encountered over the years, but hey... that's the life of a critic. I thought the story filled the bill excellently.

The acting in this effort was, for the part of almost all of the characters, excellent. The girlfriend, I felt, could have used a bit more directorial guidance in all of her appearances, but it was such a minor role in the movie that it hardly serves to mark it down.

For a three minute film, it felt - when I finished watching it - that it was more like a ten minute film that was packed with emotion and an engrossing tale throughout. That says a lot for such a short piece. I was drawn in and kept inside of the story.

As for constructive criticism, through the whole thing there were only two points which I felt were a tad jarring and left room for improvement. One was the audio. It was mostly very slick and well done, but the interview scenes between the first two actors we see had some noticable differences in the background noise level as the shots changed. Not a deal breaker, but it was noticable. However, given that this was all done in 24 hours (and given how much trouble I've had with audio when given unlimited time to work on it) I can't really draw you down on that.

There was one editing point I didn't care for. When the scene changes as the narrator character describes the subjects fall from grace, so to speak, you went for a fade to black and then fade back in to the next segment. That threw me off a tad. The second time you made that transition (where he talks about never forgeting the sister) you did a rapid fire cut to the next section, following the music. I felt a similarly abrubt cut would have worked much better for me in the first transition.

That's really all the points I found on three viewings for criticism. I felt the movie would have been an exceptional entry, even if you had had a long time to produce it. Were it a long term project, I would have given it a strong four rating because of the audio and that one scene change. Given that you pulled it off in 24 hours, I'm bumping it up to a five.

Excellent work. I am starting to think I may see you guys in Filmmaker Magazine one of these days with an Indie showing at one of the major festivals.

Well done all around and, in particular, please pass on my congrats to your actors. That was some excellent work. And obviously those kudos are passed on to the director as well for bringing out that level of a performance.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:19am

Post 76 of 92

ben3308

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Thanks so much for the review, Jazz, we're all really proud of Redemption. The fact that you took the time to watch it three times over is just flabbergasting, I'm sure we all appreciate that took the time to thoroughly judge the movie.

As for your comments about the fade to black:

You're absolutely right, and this transition is something we struggled to get right. The first flashback is a slow paced dialogue scene, and in the editing it seemed weird to us when we put a straight, abrupt cut to something that we didn't want to seem so abrupt.

Storytelling-wise, however, this is admittedly a big problem, because though we're trying to slowly grow more frenetic in the editing and camerawork throughout the movie (you may or may not have noticed this), we've already done fast cuts, so the transition (haha, literally) back to slowed down fades doesn't quite "flow" with how the story was unfolding. Originally, this scene was planned as something much cooler and grittier, with Falcone acting completely cold to his obviously concerned sister. After we'd filmed more of the movie, however, we opted for a more dramatic, heartfelt dialogue; so high-tension camerawork/editing didn't fit.

You mention not reading the past 5 pages, so lemme say this: I actually filmed two or three really sweeping crane angles that were meant to be straight cut into the movie, but in the editing they just didn't work. We'll be distributing a cheap DVD with all our stuff in the near future, and considering you get one, you'll get to see all the shots we left out. In 24 hours, judgment calls have to be made, and that was one of them.
Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007, 10:27pm

Post 77 of 92

NuttyBanana

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It was ok but i'm not a big fan of shorts unless they're stuffed full of action. I can't stress it enough that that's my opinion and my taste and not an attack on the film.

The acting was great in the interrogation room, outside was very... 'iffy'. All american with the 'get up, walk away, answer then leave' shots, and as mentioned the 'leave him alone!' etc etc. A bit bored of the american shiz now but it worked in the film as well as it could've done for me.

I have to agree with the punching sounds, they were horrible. 24 hours or 24 weeks, these should've been better i think. Maybe just adding moans from the guy being hit along side them would help.

I'm gonna go along with 2/5 as it's a short and not too thrilling. The production in the film is great but it just does nothing for me in the end.

I also despise your following quote. So be it that not everyone blows out their time into a film, but not everyone can. Alot of people do it for fun, just remember to keep the fun involved in your work. Don't take yourself so serious either, a website and dvd dedicated to a 3 min movie seems a little extreme imo.

ben3308 wrote:

Ah, but kimmik, I think the real question is: is any of this drama and dialogue close to the standard for FXHome?

wink
Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2007, 1:07pm

Post 78 of 92

drspin98

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I guess this is another one of those films where I'm just not smart enough to "get it". I read all these folks raving about the "plot" and I couldn't tell you what that was (after seeing it 2 or 3 times) to save my soul.

Like I said in a (way) previous post-I just expected more outta you guys whom I consider one of the "big dogs" on here.
Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2007, 6:23pm

Post 79 of 92

chase

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I'd like to officially apologize for my bad behavior in previous posts, I let some old problems rise to the surface and not to mention I had recently had some personal issues non-film related that had me really heated already. Ben and Andrew, I'm so sorry for the way I acted. I was very immature and wrong. Also, to those reading this i would like to apologize for bringing you into our (my) problems, it's not right of me to make my problems your business, and i'll be sure that in the future i'll handle things with the individuals involved as opposed to those who were not. Will you all forgive me?



I hope you take this as a learning experience - I think you were just too ambitious, and came up with a plot that just doesn't work with a five minute format. Five minutes is a long time, and you can get in a lot of characterisation, and you can tell the story through the action at the same time - but I just think you failed to do either of these things sufficiently with this piece.


I hope this has been said, because if it hasn't then it needs to be. This was really a difficult 24 hours and was a quite different experience than expected. We were so over prepared for production and post production that, really, i think we overlooked the challenges we faced in pre-production. We spent all night trying to come up with an idea, and nothing worked. We had this idea for redemption early on in the game and even at that...we all saw the flaws that were so blatantly obvious in the plot (and the fact we didn't have an actor to play one of the roles), so we put it aside and kept thinking of other ideas until we started running out of time. (we realize now we should have just tried to make that script work) So finally at 9 a.m. we came to the unfortunate conclusion that we were indeed wasting time and that we were not going to have anything if we didn't start soon. So we wrote up the idea that we had (redemption) to the best of our abilities in the time and mindframe that we had.
By that time, our main actor (the black guy) had to leave for 2 hours, our other actor wasn't available yet (the interrogator), and we didn't have a place to film the fight scene yet. The moral of the group was shot. We had not started filming until 2... So...we knew very well going into production that we had a script with missing links and lots of holes, but figured that we'd put as best production value in it as possible, and made sure the acting was still enjoyable to watch though the material may not make as much sense as it should. So really the production and post-production was done in 9 hours total. All in all, for me, i don't feel a need to defend the story because i don't think any of us really latched onto or liked it a whole lot to begin with, but what we are proud of is that our team worked together and made the film to the absolute best or our abilities in the time we had. Our group truly worked well once we got rolling and I'm so proud of everyone for putting out their best efforts. For this reason, I (if i were an outsider looking in) would have a hard time giving anything less than a 3 to this film, but that's just me.
so yes, this was a real learning experience! we learned that we need a writer and that cramming a script together is not good, but we also learned that we can perform well, and that we can still give 100% and make a product of which we all can be proud.

*whew* hope this makes sense and doesn't sound egotistical or anything. I'm proud of our group! ...we just need a writer haha wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:09pm

Post 80 of 92

mercianfilm

Force: 210 | Joined: 31st Dec 2006 | Posts: 687

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I think i may have already commented on thsi film- but i'll do it again anyway!
I thought itwas actually quite good- the colour grading and the dolly movements were great (Although sometimes the camera seemed a bit shaky) the acting was great from Watts and the interragator-not so much the girl- But i think that may have been lack of dialogue more than anything- it seemed unnatural to watch her brother being killed and only say it once- maybe if she went into a bit of hysteria first then fetched the gun? Also another thing i noticed was that the guy that was shot dropped the vase thing differently- there's one shot after he's been shot where he drops it above his head- then it switches to another angle and he lowers his arm and drops it. Other than that i thought it was quite good- you should be proud!
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 4:18am

Post 81 of 92

cory

Force: 1000 | Joined: 11th Jul 2006 | Posts: 23

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Um, guys... Sorry, but I just accidentally rated your film NO stars, which I totally didn't intend. I don't seem to see any way to fix it; there I go, bringing down your average because I'm a noob.

Sorry about that... I really did enjoy the film, it tackled some pretty deep stuff in just a short time. I could offer some criticism of the lighting and the sound (the sound, especially in the fight scene), but first I'll have to read the whole thread to make sure I'm not repeating what someone already said, and it's kind of late right now.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 6:45am

Post 82 of 92

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

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Hi all, just wanted to personally thank SGB, SilverDragon7, Fingon, bamsukka, Global Line Productions, and cory for adding this to your top tens.

I was surprised to see 6 users- not inclusive of anyone on the Atomic crew, strangely enough- had added this to their top movies, so I wanna just say thanks again for watching and enjoying the film.

We'll have another one (48 hour contest, you may have seen some from other FXHomers) coming up in mid-July, so be ready for that one!

Also, cory, it appears your vote has been graciously removed, so you're free to vote again; if you are so inclined.

Regards, Ben

Postscript:

Scribble07, sorry, I noticed your comments just as I hit "Submit" on this post, haha. Thanks so much for watching and reviewing the film, your enthusiasm means so much to all of us that gave up our weekend- and stamina for the tests the following week- to film 'Redemption'. You are truly appreciated!
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 6:57am

Post 83 of 92

SilverDragon7

Force: 2265 | Joined: 29th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1990

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You're very welcome.

Can't wait for the 48-hour compition, I'm sure you guys will do great with that extra 24 hours wink.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 7:56am

Post 84 of 92

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

You're very welcome.

Can't wait for the 48-hour compition, I'm sure you guys will do great with that extra 24 hours wink.
We totally will! We've already stocked up on pot, ecstasy, diet coke and mentos, and butterfly chairs for the extra 24-hours. It's gonna be awesome!
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 8:39am

Post 85 of 92

SilverDragon7

Force: 2265 | Joined: 29th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1990

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Dude.

Let me get your address wink.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 9:02pm

Post 86 of 92

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

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Rating: +1

123 Fake Street, My Private Idaho, USA.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 11:30pm

Post 87 of 92

SilverDragon7

Force: 2265 | Joined: 29th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1990

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Wow! I'm gonna go Map Quest this!
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 2:51am

Post 88 of 92

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

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Worst attempt at child abduction I've seen... The wink isn't fooling anyone.
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 8:13am

Post 89 of 92

SilverDragon7

Force: 2265 | Joined: 29th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1990

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He is older than me wink.
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 8:25am

Post 90 of 92

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

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I think that's precisely why the attempt is so bad.

smile
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 7:40pm

Post 91 of 92

Plainly

Force: 1537 | Joined: 27th Dec 2006 | Posts: 767

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Considering that you did that in 24 hours, that's a really good movie. The only problem with it is, as you said, that it didn't make much sense.

Artistically, your movie was very good. I don't know wether or not you did any colour correction, but the colour quality was very good.

Good job! smile
Posted: Mon, 25th Jun 2007, 11:06pm

Post 92 of 92

ben3308

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Thanks for th comments, Plainly Canadian, you seem to be a very insightful guy around the forums, so I'm glad you've taken the time to watch this movie.

You couldn't tell there was color correction?

Didn't the green tint and uber-high contrast give it away? biggrin