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Windows, Mac, Linux

If you were given an unlimited budget to spend on a computer, what computer would you buy?

Apple Mac66%[ 38 ]
A Windows PC33%[ 19 ]
A PC With No OS, Ready For A Linux System To Be Installed.2%[ 1 ]

Total Votes : 58

Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 11:16am

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Adman

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I am not sure if this has been done before, but I am going to do it anyway. I am just curious to actually find out the officially prefered system on planet FXhome.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 11:22am

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Penguin

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I would get a mac. Maybe one of those imacs with the gimongous screens.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 11:42am

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Jabooza

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I'm a Windows user, but I'd get a Mac.

Last edited Fri, 13th Feb 2009, 7:49pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 11:42am

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Rockfilmers

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I would get a Sony Vaio PC.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:02pm

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NickF

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* Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
* 16GB (8 x 2GB)
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
* Two 16x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Quad-channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express card
* Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple wireless Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Final Cut Express HD preinstalled

Total Cost: $17,074 USD
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:42pm

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Adman

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Digerati Media, your ultimate spec list brought tears of joy to my eyes. smile
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:42pm

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Serpent

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Digerati: You'd get all that stuff and you wouldn't get Final Cut Studio? You skipped out on Aperture? No Logic Pro? Unlimited budget. I'd get what you got with those things above, and then more amazing editing hardware, Wacom screen, etc. And an HDTV to mount above the 2 30"s for editing and DVDs. I'd also get a professional printer, some bitchin speakers, etc. Come on, inifinite budget would be a dream computer.

Last edited Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:50pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:44pm

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Adman

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Looks like poor old linux is fighting a loosing battle, does anybody on here actually use ubuntu or red hat??
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:51pm

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Serpent

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Most people here are filmmakers. If they are going to have a dream computer worth tens of thousands of dollars, there's no chance in hell they'd pick Linux as their OS.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 1:53pm

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Nutbar

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I'd get a mac for the simple reason that I have an unlimited buget and I've never used one. However if I had a limited buget i'd get a windows based PC because I know what I'm doing with them.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 2:55pm

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DigiSm89

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I'd get all three OSes.

Get a mac (the price factor was the only thing limiting me).

and

Get a really high end PC with Vista installed and a license for every other OS (XP, Linux, 2000 Pro) and virtualize those OSes.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 3:17pm

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NickF

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I just chose the things on the page to customise the computer, couldn't really be bothered going to another razz


If I had an unlimited budget, I would buy Apple and then sell it cheaply to Team FXhome so they could own... Apple...
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 8:08pm

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Fill

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I'd definitely get a PC with no OS, a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate, and a copy of Ubuntu Linux. Linux would probably be installed on an external harddrive.

I'm too arrogant to get a Mac.

BCNproductions wrote:

Looks like poor old linux is fighting a loosing battle, does anybody on here actually use ubuntu or red hat??
Yes. See the one vote for the last choice? That was me. wink

Considering the unlimited budget...

Ha, Mac Pro. Funny.

Last edited Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 8:27pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 8:09pm

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Adman

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I just put the linux thing because maybe some of the people on here want to escape corporations, or stick it to the man. Either way, I got to admit if you did put linux on your dream computer, then there is probably something really wrong with you smile . No ofense to anybody who does use linux by the way, peace out. cool
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 8:11pm

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SilverDragon7

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As a Windows user it wouldn't be uncommon it vote that direction... But I have had the fortune of using a MacBook Pro, so I'd go with that.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 8:12pm

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Adman

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Now I feel bad for my last remark, sorry Kyal. And that is probably the best idea, just to install all three.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 9:04pm

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Fill

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BCNproductions wrote:

Now I feel bad for my last remark, sorry Kyal. And that is probably the best idea, just to install all three.
Haha, it's fine. Linux users are a bit... crazy.

Gotta go. This dragon is causing trouble on my roof. Hopefully I'll slay it this time.
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 9:28pm

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Klut

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Dream computer is of course the Mac Pro with the best specs possible, all the great apple softwares + adobe, fxhome etc.

And two Apple cinema displays cool
Posted: Sun, 3rd Jun 2007, 11:03pm

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Serpent

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Kyal wrote:

Haha, it's fine. Linux users are a bit... crazy.
Proof: http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 12:36am

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SilverDragon7

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You hit it dead-on Serpent wink
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 12:45am

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Jabooza

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I'm suprised this thread has yet to break out into a depate and be removed. I guess FXhomers are finally learning to behave. smile
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 12:47am

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SilverDragon7

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Rating: +1/-1

I think almost everyone here agrees that Mac is much better than windows.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 1:19am

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A Pickle

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Mac Pro... guffaw. I'd definitely buy a Windows PC.

2x Intel Xeon 2.66 GHz (2x 8 MB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)
2x Nvidia Geforce 8800 Ultra (768 MB, PCIe x16)
8x 4 GB DDR2-667 FB-DIMM Memory
4x Lite-On 20x DVD+/-R/RW DL SATA Optical Drives
1x Bytecc 42-in-1 Media Card Reader/E-SATA/USB/IEEE-1394 5.25" Bay Device
1x Aerocool CoolWatch Fan/Temperature LCD Controller
4x Fujitsu 147 GB 15,000 RPM SAS Hard Drives
4x Seagate Barracuda 750 GB 7200 RPM SATA II Hard Drives
1x SIIG USB 2.0/IEEE-1394a PCI Expansion Card
1x HP SAS/SATA Smart Array PCI-X Controller Card
1x ASUS DSGC-DW Dual Socket 771 Server Motherboard
1x Lian-Li PC-201B Black Aluminum E-ATX Computer Case
4x Thermaltake 120mm Blue LED Cooling Fans
1x Tube of Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
1x APC 1850 Watt Uninterruptible Power Supply
2x HP 30" LCD Flat Panel
1x Logitech G11 Keyboard
1x Logitech G5 Mouse
1x Wacom 9x12" Tablet
1x Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit DVD

Cost: $24,530.63

I think I'd probably go RAID 10 on the hard drives, and I'd probably have the 15,000 RPM Fujitsu's in RAID 10, where two of them would be in RAID 0 with eachother, and the other two would be in RAID 0 as well -- then the two RAID 0 arrays would share a RAID 1 relationship where one of the RAID 0 arrays backs up data to the other RAID 0 array. I'd put my operating system, Vista Ultimate 64-bit (I need 64-bit so that I can actually use 32 GB of RAM), as well as my application software and maybe scratch disks on the 15,000 RPM arrays. I'd store all of my data (captured video, images, music) on the 750 GB hard drives, two of which would be in RAID 1 with the other two (but no RAID 0 sub-relationship). Storage, woot. biggrin

I opted for the Geforce 8800 GTX's for gaming compatibility as well as their aptitude in OpenGL workstation graphics. They should be more than fast enough for professional 3D work, as well as the occasional retreat into a gaming environment. In addition to being quite able in OpenGL performance, they do great justice to DirectX as well -- fully supporting DirecX 10 and featuring EXCELLENT anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing image quality. Also, unlike their preceding Geforce 7-series counterparts, the 8800 GTX's can do anti-aliasing and high dynamic range lighting in the same frame.

Finally, I settled on the Logitech G11 keyboard because the G15 is a more expensive version of this same keyboard... WITH AN LCD SCREEN. I find the screen to be useless, and even a little bit ugly. It's a two-color screen with a resolution of like... 80x20. That doesn't seem or remotely look high tech, so I don't particularly want it "complimenting" my setup. So I opt for the G11, which has desktop-height keys with the handy feature of key illumination, and the macro keys and media keys are just icing on the cake.

The G5 mouse is a comfortable mouse, large, and heavy enough for my hand while being very accurate. It'll be a nice mouse with that in mind.

I considered getting one of those Wacom Cintiq LCD display tablets, where you draw directly on the screen... I thinkTim Buckley from CAD (the webcomic) uses one to (obvious) great effect. Unable to find the refresh rate, and unsure of what adding a third display would do to the SLI setup of the graphics cards, I opted for a simple Wacom tablet to make digital image editing/creation easier. Webcomics would also be easier (obviously). Come to think of it, I might ACTUALLY buy that one...

E-SATA will be a nice interface to have for faster external hard drives, and having an all-in-one media reader will make transferring digital images easier from... just about every type of camera. Friggin' Olympus cameras, using those damn xD cards. NOBODY uses those, it's rather frustrating.

A Firewire 800 adapter would be nice, but... eh. I'll figure it out. biggrin

SilverDragon7 wrote:

I think almost everyone here agrees that Mac is much better than windows.
How does a comment like this get rated up? How?
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 1:39am

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Kid

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The reason it hasn't broken into a debate is because this is a thread by mac lovers, for mac lovers. The scenario already rules out the reason why most people don't buy a mac, that they are terrible value for money. The thing that people here do seem to be forgetting is that Macs still have a very limited range of hardware and are much less adaptable than pcs.

Also you arn't thinking big enough.

I would get a 4-way quad 3.2ghz xeon machine (that's 16 cores!) and an 8TB fibre channel san.

I would probably run linux on it to manage all that cos it has the smallest footprint and run Windows in VMWare, and maybe MacOS X just to laugh at it. smile
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 1:47am

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A Pickle

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I couldn't find two 3.2 GHz Xeon quad-cores on Newegg, let alone a four-way Socket-771 quad-core compatible motherboard. I also opted out of a fibre channel card because I don't have a fibre connection and despite the "unlimited funds" paramater, I figured that was only applicable to the computing box itself.

...and I don't buy into that Sun Microsystems "the network is the computer" bullshit. twisted
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 1:57am

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Kid

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So does that rule out buying a monitor or keyboard too? Also, you do realise that other people sell computer components besides newegg?
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 1:57am

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SilverDragon7

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A Pickle wrote:

SilverDragon7 wrote:

I think almost everyone here agrees that Mac is much better than windows.
How does a comment like this get rated up? How?
A crazy Mac lover?

But anyway, I myself agree and disagree with Macs. I'd rather have Mac for my home/personal uses (such as browsing the inter net;)), while having a PC to do EVERYTHING else (including work and video stuff). One thing I have and always will love about Macs is the greatly less ammount of viruses.

I definatally agree with your PC specs A Pickle wink.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:09am

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Kid

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The whole virus thing is a fallacy, since 2004 Mac OS X has had more critical exploits than XP each year. It simply seems less because there are far fewer people using Macs.

Also in my considerable time using many different PCs, I have never had a virus.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:09am

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A Pickle

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Kid wrote:

So does that rule out buying a monitor or keyboard too? Also, you do realise that other people sell computer components besides newegg?
I guess I should've worded it "desktop system," rather than "computer box." I included the keyboard, mouse, and dual-30" HP monitors.

And yes, I did. In fact, the Bytecc 5.25" drive bay device was from Performance PC's as was the Aerocool CoolWatch fan controller/thermometer. It's just that, I really didn't feel like pulling out calculator to get a superbly-exact price on it... etc. biggrin

SilverDragon7 wrote:

But anyway, I myself agree and disagree with Macs. I'd rather have Mac for my home/personal uses (such as browsing the inter net;)), while having a PC to do EVERYTHING else (including work and video stuff). One thing I have and always will love about Macs is the greatly less ammount of viruses.
I don't get viruses on my PC. And I don't pay for any virus subscription, it's all freeware that protects me. Using Vista is especially nice, because it comes with a FANTASTIC firewall, in addition to many other pretty darn good security features. Being completely honest here, the LAST time I got a virus was years ago on my old Pentium III desktop.

Honestly, I'm not opposed to Macs, I'm just not convinced that they're superbly better than PC's. If Apple had a MacBook Pro out that had a high-end mobile graphics card, two hard drives, and a numeric keypad on the keyboard I'd DEFINITELY go for that MacBook, especially if it kept it's MacBook-y features like the illuminated keyboard and the iSight webcam. That'd be my perfect computer.

Ooh, especially if it had two buttons on the touchpad. biggrin

Last edited Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:13am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:12am

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Kid

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A SAN doesnt have to be used in a networked manner, you can attach it to 1 PC and it acts like a very big, very fast extendable external harddrive.

You are probably thinking of NAS.

Last edited Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:14am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:14am

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A Pickle

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Kid wrote:

A san doesnt have to be used in a networked manner, you can attach it to 1 PC and it acts like a very big, very fast extendable external harddrive.
A san? Never read about them, really, I guess I didn't see that in your above post.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:31am

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SilverDragon7

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I've only gotten one computer messed up with viruses, this one I'm on at the moment, but it was back when I was just a... well noob... at computers. Now I'm much better.

And yes, your right that it's not the computer that just gets the virus, it's the owner that gives/supplies it.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:45am

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DigiSm89

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Kid wrote:

It simply seems less because there are far fewer people using Macs.
And also far fewer mac viruses/vulnerabilities being advertised in the media. It comes down to the business of delivering news: what makes a good story, showing how the majority of users out there are vulnerable to a virus that will shutdown your pc in seconds or how less than 4% of the computing world may fall victim to a mac-total takeover virus?
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:47am

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Serpent

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A Pickle wrote:

SilverDragon7 wrote:

I think almost everyone here agrees that Mac is much better than windows.
How does a comment like this get rated up? How?
I rated it up. I thought it was funny just after the whole "I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a debate" comment. The thing that usually sparks debates is a comment like that, it was ridiculous and I chose to reccomend others to read said post. If he said "Windows" instead of "Mac", he would have had the same +1 above his post.

People can find posts humorous that you don't? That concept is ridiculous and I think I should be banned.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 2:53am

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A Pickle

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Serpent wrote:

A Pickle wrote:

SilverDragon7 wrote:

I think almost everyone here agrees that Mac is much better than windows.
How does a comment like this get rated up? How?
I rated it up. I thought it was funny just after the whole "I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a debate" comment. The thing that usually sparks debates is a comment like that, it was ridiculous and I chose to reccomend others to read said post. If he said "Windows" instead of "Mac", he would have had the same +1 above his post.

People can find posts humorous that you don't? That concept is ridiculous and I think I should be banned.
I didn't find it particularly humorous or offensive, I just found it to be one of those posts that typically starts debates, one that doesn't... usually... get uprated...

And, as I said, I really don't think humor has anything to do with it... so... I mean... obviously you'll find things humorous that I don't. That wasn't... even in question...
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 4:31am

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SilverDragon7

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Well if it's any constalation I wasn't trying to spark a debate here.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 4:43am

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A Pickle

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

Well if it's any constalation I wasn't trying to spark a debate here.
I think your other reply was proof of that. Sorry if I was... er... frustrating. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 7:25am

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ben3308

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SilverDragon7 wrote:

Well if it's any constalation I wasn't trying to spark a debate here.
It is a constellation. A pretty big one, at that.



Orion's Belt, to be exact. And it's got energy from all the stars in it to spark more than just a debate.

Perhaps you meant "consolation", then? biggrin
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 11:33am

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Serpent

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A Pickle wrote:

And, as I said, I really don't think humor has anything to do with it... so... I mean... obviously you'll find things humorous that I don't. That wasn't... even in question...
Humor has everything to do with it. That's why it got the +1. The +1 was in question. There's your answer. Stop acting like a prick about it and get over it.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 4:35pm

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TimmyD

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Heheheeh i love watching pricks in their natural habitat.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 5:54pm

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SilverDragon7

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ben3308 wrote:

Perhaps you meant "consolation", then? biggrin
So however you spell it wink.
Posted: Mon, 4th Jun 2007, 8:50pm

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Dancamfx

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Digerati Media wrote:

* Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
* 16GB (8 x 2GB)
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
* Two 16x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Quad-channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express card
* Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple wireless Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Final Cut Express HD preinstalled

Total Cost: $17,074 USD
Same thing, except with Final Cut Pro rather than Final cut Express.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 12:10am

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Fill

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You know, many Mac owners remind me of that 'Smug Alert' South Park episode...

Oh, and the Leopard desktop cube is blatant mimicking of Linux. First, it was somewhat subtle. Things may have looked similar, but Apple added new ideas. This, however is just sad. So, from now on, if Apple wants to bitch about Windows copying OS X, they should probably look back at Linux.

I'm not going to lie. I love the Mac's OS. I just think Vista has the potential to become better.

/spark of debate
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 12:49am

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petet2

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I used top of the range Macs at college and they were a dream. Video on a PC is good but Macs just do it with so much less effort. Takes me back to my Amiga days...
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 2:10am

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Dancamfx

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Yeah macs have come a long way. Over 85% of all the editing computers in the movie industry are Macs, but most of them run Avid rather then FCP.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 2:34am

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Kid

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Dancamfx wrote:

Yeah macs have come a long way. Over 85% of all the editing computers in the movie industry are Macs, but most of them run Avid rather then FCP.
Thats really wishful thinking! You know if you are going to make stats up you should at least try to make them plausible.

The fact is that render farms mostly run on pc servers running linux.



and even pixar who Jobs has his fingers in still run predominantly on pc workstations, dells no less!

As a former video editing and 3d workstation supplier I can also tell you that almost all of the universities in the UK are mostly PC based too. FCP may be quite good but Avid is the industry standard and they've not got so much to offer on the Mac anymore.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 3:03am

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Dancamfx

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Im sorry if I confused you but I was saying that the 85% of EDITING computers in the movie industry (Hollywood) are macs and most run avid. Now that is the video editing computers only. I live in LA and have interned at some production companys in hollywood. Thats where I learned this fact.

I now intern at DMS Productions near Hollywood, and is an entirely Mac Based company. When I started interning there I had lots of questions to ask, and one of them was why they use macs. When Doug told me that 85% of editing computers in Hollywood are Mac based I had the same reaction to your's Kid. So he proved it to me by making some phone calls right then and there. The one call I remeber the most, probably because he had me talk to the guy on the phone, was to a Editing Computer renting company that rents to all the major film studios and the represenative from that company said "Out of the 100+ top of the line editing stations they rent out, only 10 are PC based.

Now the only reason I finally made the complete switched to a Mac was because of what I learned from Interning at different production companys in Hollywood. I knew I was going to have to learn how to use one sooner or later If I want to work in Hollywood. But what I tried to point out in my previous post, is that even though they primarily use macs, they use Avid rather then FCP. Ive been trying to get my hands on avid for a while now but its just so dang expensive.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 6:07am

Post 48 of 68

CX3

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Avid is trash. Too much work to do the same exact thing that FCP does. FCP is becoming more and more accepted (in the industry). Usually those who know both programs typically pick FCP. I dont know who created Avid and its pointless functions but they should slap themselves.. and transfer their billions of $'s over to my bank account.

And the first sentence I wrote in this post is a fact. I looked it up. So there.

EDIT: And I'd buy a mac
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 7:36am

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Dancamfx

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Really? Ive never used Avid but all I heard is thats what most of the industry uses. Im glad to here FCP is becoming used more, I love FCP and I hope Im never forced to switch in the future.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 6:11pm

Post 50 of 68

Adman

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Kyal wrote:

BCNproductions wrote:

Now I feel bad for my last remark, sorry Kyal. And that is probably the best idea, just to install all three.
Haha, it's fine. Linux users are a bit... crazy.

Gotta go. This dragon is causing trouble on my roof. Hopefully I'll slay it this time.
You have a dragon on your roof too!
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 6:24pm

Post 51 of 68

Arktic

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As a collegue of mine said...

"AVID burns your children".

It was made by people who were brought up doing tape-to-tape linear VHS editing. For the most part, it's a clunky, horrible program.

However, there are some things that FCP can't touch AVID for. For example, though it's true that FCP has some pretty good colour correction facilities, they simply aren't a patch on AVID Symphony Nitris.

But, even though at the VERY high end of things, AVID is better, I still hate using it, because it's so counter-inuitative, unlike FCP or even Premiere. As I say, it was designed (and is used, for the most part) by people who learned editing in a linear environment.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Tue, 5th Jun 2007, 9:30pm

Post 52 of 68

Dancamfx

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It was made by people who were brought up doing tape-to-tape linear VHS editing. For the most part, it's a clunky, horrible program.
Hey I was one of those Tape to Tape linear VHS editing guys so lay off. JK JK, But I did use to edit using 2 VHS recorders, VHS Tapes, Sound board, and a CD player. Thank god I will nevr have to relive those days. biggrin

Im still suprised to hear so much negative reviews of Avid from you guys, I have never touched the thing so I have no idea.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:08am

Post 53 of 68

DigiSm89

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Kid wrote:


The fact is that render farms mostly run on pc servers running linux.
Didn't ILM use Windows XP x64 for the more gfx intensive scenes in EP3?
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:13am

Post 54 of 68

NickD

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A souped up Mac Pro (Centrino, Santa Rosa?). The full 16GB of RAM, 3TB of internal storage. I'd get an additional 7TB of external storage as well. Dual 30's. ACD's.

Final Cut Studio, Aperture, Adobe CS3, Visionlab, Bose Surround Sound, and a 42" Sharp Aquos LCD for extra screen space if needed. Pro correcting monitors of course, some mixers, etc.

Oh, and while I'm at it, a couple of clamshell G3's and souped up Pismo's razz
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:40am

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King of Blades

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Well, my original decision would be a PC with Windows. No, not Vista, but back to XP; Vista is worthless. You have to manually turn off the User Account Control (which really isn't much help unless you have a huge family using the one computer). Half of my programs are not compatible with Vista. It's basically a rip off of the Mac operating system, but less stable.

Vista is a pig with lipstick-- something big and ugly made to look pretty.

Now, if I had an unlimited budget at hand, I would go for a Macbook or just a standard Macintosh comp. with OSX.

NickD has instilled a real temptation for me to just say "Screw Macroshaft, and go for a Mac".
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 4:14am

Post 56 of 68

NickD

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Wow Josh. It's been a long time coming, eh? wink
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 6:24am

Post 57 of 68

A Pickle

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NickD wrote:

A souped up Mac Pro (Centrino, Santa Rosa?)
Centrino and Santa Rosa are both mobile (laptop) platforms. The Mac Pro is more of a ... V8.

kingofbladesiv wrote:

Well, my original decision would be a PC with Windows. No, not Vista, but back to XP; Vista is worthless. You have to manually turn off the User Account Control (which really isn't much help unless you have a huge family using the one computer). Half of my programs are not compatible with Vista. It's basically a rip off of the Mac operating system, but less stable.

Vista is a pig with lipstick-- something big and ugly made to look pretty.

Now, if I had an unlimited budget at hand, I would go for a Macbook or just a standard Macintosh comp. with OSX.
Just my opinion here, but Vista is awesome. In all honesty, it's XP but better, and stabler. It has a much better interface, much better security, a new networking stack (something that XP desperately needed), and a new audio/video driver model.

I haven't yet seen a legitimate argument for all the Vista-bashing, and program incompatibility is one that shouldn't be directed at Microsoft or Vista. Third-party hardware or software that's incompatible with Vista can be blamed on one party: That software's manufacturer. New operating systems come out, and when you don't have strict and rigid control over all of the possible hardware configurations (like Apple), incompatibility is likely to happen. Case in point, don't blame Microsoft for "Vista" because "Vista" isn't the problem. It works just fine under proper circumstances... just like XP did when it first launched.

User Account Control is User Account Control... it's Microsoft's implementation of something that Mac OS X and Linux already have -- a user-permissions basis for executing programs. You need to have your root password handy when installing a system-level program in Linux, just like you need it handy when installing a system-level program in Mac OS X. Unfortunately, Microsoft demands a degree of backwards compatibility in every Windows release, which is why Windows has roughly 20 million lines of code while Mac OS X has about 5 million lines of code. Old programs weren't coded with UAC in mind, so UAC has to sort of accommodate them and the only real way to do this is to monitor such things like... access to the "C:\Program Files\" directory or renaming files. Backwards compatibility is what keeps Windows alive.

And that's just one of the security features in Vista which, despite the tremendous level of security it provides, is disable-able by the user. There's a lot of other good features, like the Address Space Layout Randomizer, which offsets files in memory by a certain number of addresses, which breaks thousands of boot-sector virus attacks as well as numerous remote host attacks based on the fact that they can no longer count on the vulnerable file being where they expect it to be in memory. There's Protected Mode in IE7, a feature that other browsers/platforms could benefit by taking a leaf out of Microsoft's book.

Stability? Vista has a ton of new features to improve the already rock-stable performance of NT. Fact: Windows NT-based servers outsold UNIX-based ones in 2005. That trend has continued. Vista adds to the reliability of the NT kernel by adding features like... the Performance and Stability Monitor, which monitors in minute detail numerous programs and operations going on in the computer. It correlates this data at the time of a crash, and can solve problems by changing things around so that that crash won't happen again. I wouldn't know -- I've yet to see a blue screen of death on Vista.

Honestly, preferences are preferences, but there's not a feature in Vista I would bat away, with the possible exception of the demand for backwards compatibility. Macs are good computers. So are computers run by Vista.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:14pm

Post 58 of 68

DigiSm89

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kingofbladeslv wrote:

You have to manually turn off the User Account Control (which really isn't much help unless you have a huge family using the one computer).
Why is UAC so bad? You shouldn't see it too much under normal use. The only times I've encountered it was when I was installing stuff, changing the date and time, and when I needed to run an add on from a website. The first two, I don't do often. The last one is kind of annoying, but it beats a mal-addon immediately starting itself.

kingofbladeslv wrote:

Half of my programs are not compatible with Vista.
Neither are mine. Luckily I never use them because that half happens to be so old and obsolete that I haven't touched it in ages. Instead, I upgraded that half a long time ago when I got XP, and those upgraded programs work nicely on Vista.

But seriously, you're upgrading a whole OS. Obviously some programs which worked on a prior OS wont work on the newer OS due to changes in the OS (security, etc). While MS did a good job of managing backwards compatibility, they can't just inevitably allow old practices to surface in the next OS. Somewhere along the line, they have to cut off support for the old and push for support for the new.

kingofbladeslv wrote:


It's basically a rip off of the Mac operating system, but less stable.

Vista is a pig with lipstick-- something big and ugly made to look pretty.
Less stable? But you don't have it so how would you know?

And, pigs are intelligent. If you're going to ridicule an OS (why would you spend your time doing this anyways?) at least make a better metaphor. oink
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 2:31pm

Post 59 of 68

Joshua Davies

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A Pickle,

I'm not really sure how you can love Vista so much. It has problems with so much software (Apple swapped from one architecture to another which was totally different with less problems!) and has hardware problems with so many devices. I know that Windows is a huge beastly bit of software but this is the worst Windows OS update I can remember.

Its slower for most users (including me) and over 25% of people who purchased it when it was released (those using modern Nvidia graphics cards like me) had an OS which would only run for about 15mins before crashing. If it did last longer than as soon as the computer tried to sleep then it was doomed.

Even now, after many updates this is still true for tons of people with Nvidia GF7 or GF8 video cards!

Sure this is an Nvidia driver problem, but its still massive and its not a problem in older Windows systems of even early pre-release versions of Vista.


Codec issues are also pretty massive at the moment with many obscure video codecs being dodgy and applications like VLC are hampered by the graphics glitches for many people.

The interface is seriously ugly as well although it tries desperately to be cool. Windows XP is far more of an equal for Mac OS X than Vista is in its current state. Roll on service pack 1, then Adobe will start to support Vista as they won't even do that while its in its current state.

Arktic,

Check out Final Cut Studio 2 and Color and see if you still think Avid still has the upper hand with colour correction. wink
________________________________________

Mac and PC (Vista or XP) both have strong points and weak points.

There is no group of software at a similar price on Windows can touch Final Cut Studio 2 - this is a fact.

It is also fact that many great post production applications (XSI, 3D Studio Max, Fusion, Discreet software) are Windows only.

If you are in the market for a great video/post production machine (a fairly high-end market, lets face it) then the only way to get the best of everything is to run both systems...

...which means you should get a Mac as it can do just that and isn't must more expensive than a top-of-the-range PC.

Mac Pro or a new Santa Rosa Mac Book Pro would be my pick...
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 3:58pm

Post 60 of 68

Kid

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Dancamfx wrote:

Im still suprised to hear so much negative reviews of Avid from you guys, I have never touched the thing so I have no idea.
The thing about Avid is that it has become a standard thing to know and then people use it because it's well known and so on and so on. The problem with staying standard is that it also means it drags behind sticking to the old ways. Avid have been moving away from Apple for larger systems because of their hardware being proprietary. A lot of the Mac based systems you may encounter would be a couple of years old.

You may have meant specifically editing but when you have your 3D people working on windows and your render farms on linux, your administration people on windows as well probably, then interoperability also becomes a big consideration.

In my experience the sort of larger editing machines that you seem to be talking about are more often than not prorietary. It may be a pc or mac under the hood but it won't behave like one when you are working on it.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 5:27pm

Post 61 of 68

NickF

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Well I'm going to be following up my vote and getting a Mac soon (not sure which one but I'm hoping for a MacBook Pro with the sexy new updated specs and lower price)

Kid wrote:

That has to be at ILM, right? With the Imperial logos on all of them...
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 5:36pm

Post 62 of 68

A Pickle

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schwar wrote:

I'm not really sure how you can love Vista so much.
Well, it hasn't given me any problems in the countless times that I've tried it in Beta, Release Candidate, and retail release stages. Yeah, I'm a little hard-pressed to call Vista a flop when it has worked for me on every occasion that I installed it.

schwar wrote:

It has problems with so much software...
How can you blame that on Vista? It's a new operating system. The move from ME to XP broke more software than the move from XP to Vista. Every one of my software programs work, the only one that needs a little "help" is 3D Studio Max R7, which I've used to great effect in Vista anyways, I just have to turn off Aero or the viewports are all screwy. That, and Prey doesn't work, but since it DOES work on other Vista systems, that problem lies within my graphics driver (which is ATI/AMD's responsibility).

That said, I find it difficult to blame Vista on incompatible software. If you have a piece of software that doesn't work with Vista, I'd recommend avoiding software from that manufacturer like the plague. It's pretty evident that they're un-interested in supporting their userbase in a typical OS upgrade/migration scenario. It's their responsibility to get their software working with the OS of the times, and today (and presumably the next few years) that'll be Vista.

schwar wrote:

(Apple swapped from one architecture to another which was totally different with less problems!)
Apple doesn't begin to have the responsibilities shouldered by Windows. They control all hardware which their software will be running on. Arguing this is a moot point, Windows has a huge software library supported by literally thousands of developers from possibly thousands of different software companies, and this software runs on the millions of different hardware combinations provided by the hundreds of hardware/peripheral companies out there. It's a totally different animal. I feel inclined to add, architecture hopping happens a LOT. There are hundreds of games out there that run on multiple platforms including Windows.

schwar wrote:

I know that Windows is a huge beastly bit of software but this is the worst Windows OS update I can remember.
The same naysaying that can be heard about Vista was said about XP. I surmise in two or three years, when Vista is the accepted OS of choice and Windows Vienna is up for grabs, people will be up in arms about how many system resources Windows Vienna uses, or how it's incompatible with old software (new operating system incompatible with old software? Inconceivable!), or how it's incompatible with older hardware. The only way Microsoft could avoid this typical crop of whining would be by providing the

shwar wrote:

Its slower for most users (including me) and over 25% of people who purchased it when it was released (those using modern Nvidia graphics cards like me) had an OS which would only run for about 15mins before crashing.
Most people I've talked to have said that Vista feels quite a bit more responsive in desktop operation. Of course, if you have Nvidia graphics cards you're going to get a noticeable slowdown in games -- don't know why, but Nvidia drivers for Vista at this point are downright terrible. Most of them are slow, much slower than their counterparts on XP and it has very little to do with Vista because comparable ATI cards suffer less than a 10% decrease in performance, which, quite frankly is due to the OS using a few more resources. I'm not opposed to that, either

schwar wrote:

Even now, after many updates this is still true for tons of people with Nvidia GF7 or GF8 video cards!
You've just mentioned two products having trouble in Vista from one company, yet Vista is the problem? You have trouble with Nvidia cards and are running Vista. I don't have trouble with ATI cards and am running Vista. Call me crazy, but I think that would isolate Nvidia as the most likely origin of the problem...

schwar wrote:

Sure this is an Nvidia driver problem, but its still massive and its not a problem in older Windows systems of even early pre-release versions of Vista.
One of the new features in Windows Vista is a re-done driver model for both audio and video devices. DirectX 10 makes use of the enhancements in the new graphics driver model.

wrote:

Codec issues are also pretty massive at the moment with many obscure video codecs being dodgy and applications like VLC are hampered by the graphics glitches for many people.
I'm biased here. I hated VLC on XP, mainly because I hate having multiple media players. I had hoped that VLC would trim my media player count by some degree, but it didn't. It had trouble playing files, and it had no fullscreen media controls. I was back to Windows Media Player in an instant.

By and large, I've been delighted in Vista because all of my media works in both Windows Media Player as well as the much-vaunted Windows Media Center. About the only complaint that I have is the way the music library is "organized," but I think fiddling around with that might solve my problem.

schwar wrote:

The interface is seriously ugly as well although it tries desperately to be cool.
Interface is opinion-based. I, for one, am very happy with Vista's new interface. Live previews for everything are fantastic, and the 3D desktop enables some neat effects. I really like Mac OS X's Expose, but I don't... particularly... want to have to own a Mac to use it. Flip3D is pretty, and actually I'm finding myself using it more than Alt+Tab which, with the advent of Aero's live previews and transparency, has become quite visually "busy" and less easy-to-use. So I use Flip3D for linear application switching, but I use "Switcher" for Expose-like dynamic application switching. It works great, even with games that I'm running in a window.

The taskbar previews are fantastic. I had CounterStrike: Source running in a window and it was minimized, while I was siphing through my Media Library for some music. By happenstance, my mouse was kicked over to the CS:S taskbar button, where a live preview showed up. I was already dead, but I was spectating my friend... in the taskbar preview. I took my time selecting my music until I saw that the match had begun again. It was pretty fantastic. biggrin

schwar wrote:

Roll on service pack 1, then Adobe will start to support Vista as they won't even do that while its in its current state.
To the best of my knowledge, CS3 is compatible with Windows Vista. Heck, CS2 and even earlier versions of Photoshop are Vista-compatible. My version of Premiere Elements (version 1.0, they're now up to version 3.0) works just fine in Vista, and I have to say, it's a pleasure to use it with per-application volume switching. Editing a video for a friend, which makes use of exorbitantly loud metal music is easy and even comfortable when I can turn down Elements and turn up Media Player. I love that feature. It deserves five hearts. <3<3<3<3<3.

Vista is brilliant. I love it, and I really think that... barring a few hardware and software updates, most people can and eventually will agree. I don't think Service Pack 1 is relevant, as I really don't think Vista is the "problem." It's just a matter of time, and manufacturers releasing compatibility patches/drivers.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 5:46pm

Post 63 of 68

DigiSm89

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schwar wrote:


Its slower for most users (including me) and over 25% of people who purchased it when it was released (those using modern Nvidia graphics cards like me) had an OS which would only run for about 15mins before crashing. If it did last longer than as soon as the computer tried to sleep then it was doomed.

Even now, after many updates this is still true for tons of people with Nvidia GF7 or GF8 video cards!

Sure this is an Nvidia driver problem, but its still massive and its not a problem in older Windows systems of even early pre-release versions of Vista.
25% is a vague number. 25% of users who installed it on their own PCs or 25% of users who bought new machines with it preinstalled or the two groups mixed together?

I've only heard complaints from the first group, the ones who have installed Vista on their existing machines. Thing with Vista is (and I'd assume any OS really) that it depends on memory. If you don't have 1GB (or close enough), it's slow. If you have past than 1GB, afaik it's pretty fast as two of my friends, one who built a PC last year with 2GB of RAM and another who just bought a Dell this year with 2GB have really fast Vista setups. When I built my machine, I put in 1GB, and I've noticed speed improvements in terms of opening apps, browsing the web, and starting up/logging in.

With computers that have been bought within the last couple of years, the emphasis has been placed more on the hardware features of the machine and how stylish it looks. There were clear differences between the types of PCs you can get in terms of the CPU and hard drive space, but not in terms of memory. Last year, Dell magazines were advertising 512MB systems and not 1GB or 2GB. Thus, most who bought Dells from them last year have systems with 512MB. Installing Vista on those systems, while they say are "capable" (they really, really are not), will result in a slow, laggy experience.

This is my reasoning for that 25% number. It really just boils down to memory.


Though, I can't speak for your experience schwar. I assume you have a fairly beasty machine with high quality components.

Didn't nVidia release improved drivers for the GF7 and GF8 cards like 5 months ago? I have 6600GT (no problems) so I wouldn't know the driver issues.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 5:50pm

Post 64 of 68

Dancamfx

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Kid wrote:

Dancamfx wrote:

Im still suprised to hear so much negative reviews of Avid from you guys, I have never touched the thing so I have no idea.
The thing about Avid is that it has become a standard thing to know and then people use it because it's well known and so on and so on. The problem with staying standard is that it also means it drags behind sticking to the old ways. Avid have been moving away from Apple for larger systems because of their hardware being proprietary. A lot of the Mac based systems you may encounter would be a couple of years old.

You may have meant specifically editing but when you have your 3D people working on windows and your render farms on linux, your administration people on windows as well probably, then interoperability also becomes a big consideration.

In my experience the sort of larger editing machines that you seem to be talking about are more often than not prorietary. It may be a pc or mac under the hood but it won't behave like one when you are working on it.
With 3D programs Im sure its all PC based. But when it comes to editing stations its pretty much all mac. I have seen alot of Mac RAID servers in hollywood but Im not even sure Apple even makes those anymore. Two out of the three Production Companys I interned at even used macs in their offices too. DMS Productions, which I have been interning at most recently, doesnt have a single PC in there entire company. Im not making these things up, Its just some of the stuff I have learned over the years.
Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007, 7:02pm

Post 65 of 68

Fill

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Schwar, you can get the K-Lite codec pack for Windows Media Player. I can play almost anything in WMP now. Quicktime, Xvid, Divx, you name it.

Here's a link:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Codec_Pack.htm
Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007, 6:01am

Post 66 of 68

A Pickle

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Kyal wrote:

Schwar, you can get the K-Lite codec pack for Windows Media Player. I can play almost anything in WMP now. Quicktime, Xvid, Divx, you name it.

Here's a link:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Codec_Pack.htm
Actually, I don't even use those anymore. I just get the standalone installer for ffdshow, QuickTime Alternative, and Real Alternative. Plays everything I need to play in Windows Media Player, which is to say... all my media. AVI's, WMV's, OGM's... you name it it plays.
Posted: Sat, 9th Jun 2007, 7:28pm

Post 67 of 68

Kid

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Dancamfx wrote:

With 3D programs Im sure its all PC based. But when it comes to editing stations its pretty much all mac. I have seen alot of Mac RAID servers in hollywood but Im not even sure Apple even makes those anymore. Two out of the three Production Companys I interned at even used macs in their offices too. DMS Productions, which I have been interning at most recently, doesnt have a single PC in there entire company. Im not making these things up, Its just some of the stuff I have learned over the years.
So you are taking what you experienced at 3 companies and assuming that this applies to all of hollywood? There is your problem.
Posted: Sun, 10th Jun 2007, 2:17am

Post 68 of 68

Plainly

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I would get a PC. I find them more handy.

wink