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Roswell 1847 Cowboy film I've shot

Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 4:42pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi

Some of you had asked for pictures and details about my first budgeted film.

Details:

A full 5 days shoot, 9am to 8pm (was longer than we thought)
We hired Norman Lovett from Red Dwarf.
Shot with 2 fx1's
Making of shot on HC3
We had 4 lights, large 6 foot relfector, smaller reflector, boom mic, 2 Jibs, 12foot and 8foot. 2 dollies, megaphone (cost about £10 but worth every penny) 4 radio walkie talkies, (used fully)
Total cost, including: Location, costumes, hiring minibus, generators, food, paying Norman Lovett from Red Dwarf, etc. £20,000 (although we still have scenes to shoot but shouldn't cost much)
I lost a lot of weight.

Below are some pictures.




http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?5e9b2f903f.jpg

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?3b3ed88f3b.jpg
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 5:47pm

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joshh

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wow when the film is done wats your next step
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 5:55pm

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mercianfilm

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That's absolutely awesome mate biggrin Where was the location done? It looks american (I thought you came from England?)
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 6:09pm

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SilverDragon7

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I think Australlia is the word your looking for wink.
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 6:36pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi
thanks,

It's a cowboy town in Kent, England. I think the only one, there might be one in Scotland.

joshh asked "when the film is done wats your next step"

The filming didn't go without problem, the 2 guys that also put money into the film seemed to have a problem with each other, I was filming and was unaware of it, so the percentages of profits still need to be worked out.

But the plan, if everyone gets along is:
Have a screening up london, we had a magazine come along to do a 4 page spread on us, they will come to the screening for a follow up.
Also at the screening (with luck) Warners, 20th Century, Icon films and Sony might be there, this isn't due to my skill in marketing, it's mearly due to one of the cast members girlfriend used to work very high up in Warners and still has contacts.
Although I say my films are the best wink i'm also aware that it was shot only on fx1 HDV and that the chances of a big company taking it is low.
But we should be able to sell it somewhere down the line.

Even if we don't manage to sell it we should be able to get enough interest in what we do and our next film is being shot on a pro camera ready for cinema release (again if someone buys it).
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 6:42pm

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The Siege

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Maybe they would let you do a re-film of the whole project?
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 6:45pm

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Sollthar

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I'm curious to see how that looks. 20'000 £ is more then I had to make a feature film. So I'm pretty excited to see what you're making with it. wink
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 7:12pm

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b4uask30male

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thanks but the problem we had was we had to shoot the full film in just 5 days, whereas a feature film takes months.

Still was great fun and we managed to get it all shot (just)
Posted: Mon, 11th Jun 2007, 7:41pm

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Rockfilmers

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A coybow twon in the UK? Are the cow boys suposed to be american? If so I think it would be funny hearing them with english accsents. smile It looks like a cool film. That's way more than what I can spend right now though.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 7:09am

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b4uask30male

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We covered the accents as we had american people come over just for the shoot, the stroy is about a group of english folks going to the USA, they take a wrong turn and end up in new mexico 100 years before the Roswell crash.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 7:32am

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ben3308

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b4uask30male wrote:

thanks but the problem we had was we had to shoot the full film in just 5 days, whereas a feature film takes months.
Actually, a great deal of feature films in the past few years have only taken up to 30 or 40 days to film, so not that long at all. wink

On another note, cool to hear you've come close t completion on this project, I can't wait to see footage! It definitely looks like a huge undertaking, and I'm sure the final result will show it.

Any chance of posting clips/trailers up on FXHome?
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 7:34am

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b4uask30male

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Hi
Thanks, there will be some effect shots which would be cool to use someone who is good with fxhome products could help me with.

Not sure when the trailer will be ready, still got to shoot some scenes but knowing me I'll bash it within the few weeks.

thanks
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 7:46am

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ben3308

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You need any help with some stylistic color grading, and I'm your man.

I use Vegas 6, which is what I believe you use, so if I could just sample some footage it'd be as easy as creating presets for contrast, color, and such; and just uploading them for you.

I'm willing to help, so think about it
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 8:05am

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b4uask30male

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Thanks for the offer, the footage will be in pal hdv so I can send a small clip once I capture it, but the full film would need to be edited and then sent via dvd or something?
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 8:10am

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ben3308

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Yeah, a DVD sounds like a good idea.

PAL HDV should be fine, as Vegas supports it, and I can set my external monitor to transcode PAL to NTSC or something of the sort. Just let me know when you get everything up and running. If you could, post up a small clip on PutFile.com or transfer it to me via YouSendIt.com. My email is ben3308ATgmailDOTcom.

Hope your movie turns out awesome, though it already looks that way.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 9:03am

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Simon K Jones

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Nifty stuff. Which magazine is running a feature on you? I don't want to miss that issue! smile
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 10:07am

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shadu

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As always for the VFX you can contact me. I will be very please to work again with you....

Still can't beleive about a cowboy town in UK! ;O)

Shadu
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 10:22am

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b4uask30male

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Hi
Thanks

The magazine that came along (should have been more but they didn't show sad was Digital video techniqiues.

We will also have a feature in the magazine UFODATA.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 10:28am

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Simon K Jones

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Do you mean Practical Digital Video? They changed their name quite a while back, unless we're talking about different mags.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 10:47am

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B3N

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This looks pretty good, I'm still waiting on seeing some sterotypes smile. But as far as the budget goes that is a lot of money for 4-5 days of shooting isn't it, must be good. Good luck

I bourght Digital Video a few months back but it isn't in the shops anymore. The one i bourght was the one with "how to shoot a wedding video" on the front cover unsure.

B3N
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 11:10am

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Redhawksrymmer

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Looks cool! When do you think you'll have a trailer available (if you'll make one of those, of course smile)?
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 11:13am

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er-no

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Looks really good Ian! Nice work!

Look forward to seeing clips/tests etc.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 3:24pm

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b4uask30male

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Thanks, yes the one they changed the name on, matt tuffin came along.

I'm capturing the footage now and i'll ask ben to see about grading it, i think should be online within a week.
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 4:00pm

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ben3308

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Sounds good, man!

smile
Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007, 5:22pm

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pdrg

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Hey Ian, glad to hear the shoot went so well!

£20k is little enough that if Warners/etc do bite, you can just remake it from scratch, and use 35, or the lovely Sony CineAlta F23 or something instead (like a 900, but much better again).

Guess this means you're lining up the big one now - give me a bell again and we should spend a bit of time budgeting it clearly, but shooting a feature in 5 days (and still living at the end of it) is a remarkable achievement, well done man, you've proved you can turn stuff around on a budget!

Paddy
Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007, 9:27pm

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Sollthar

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Speaking of it. What ever happened to the 600'000 budget? Or was that another film?
Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007, 10:29pm

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KA Productions

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This looks very promising. But wow... only 5 days? it takes me a day to shoot 3 minutes worth of footage.

Who knows? This might be your big break.
Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007, 7:18am

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b4uask30male

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Thanks,

The 600,000 is for a Legacy, I have to shoot the trailer with $5,000 that was sent to me (which is now next on my list of things to do) once the trailer is done, if it's good enough I'll be sent the rest of the money.

Also more good news, Raleigh has asked me to shoot their Christmas commercial and an easter one, also a promotion video for the company.

Also Norman Lovett from Red Dwarf has agreed to be in "call me a psycho" which is nearly finished, he enjoyed himself so much on the cowboy film that he's looking forward to working with us again.

Lots more things are happening, such as a guy I know is buying a full HD edit suite and a sony f790 (new out) camera, he's buying them to hire out and i'll be using those, but also anyone from fxhome can hire them from him at a really low price.
The edit suite will be in KEW Richmond, let me know if your interested, it's going to have avid adrenaline on it but i'll also put some lower editing software so you can edit yourself without the need to hire an editor to use avid (i don't know how to use avid myself, but i'll give it a go)
Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007, 11:08am

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mercianfilm

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woah soudns so exciting! biggrin You're making it into the big time- don't forget us all at FXhome!
Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007, 12:00pm

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b4uask30male

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Thanks, I think for me making it big would be like john carter where he has got a distributor, making a film is (i think) the easy part.
Still I won't forget you guys if I do make it.
Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007, 2:40pm

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er-no

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Yeah, I can see where your coming from with that Ian! It's difficult to find a distributor, but I imagine that if your product is good enough someone will pick it up, just gotta work towards it! (and I'm sure it is so good luck!).

I'd personally say that making the film is the hard part, especially if you are trying to complete and produce something to the up most of technical standards whilst having no budget to pool from. That's when I've felt the stress! I wish someone would give me £20,000, I could quite happily schedule and place together a feature film whilst making it something very very good/professional.
Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007, 4:39pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi

The 20,000 in the end came from 3 different people, it was easier to get 3 people than getting one to pay it all.

Maybe you should look at getting more people putting in little money each to make the full amount.

thanks for the kind words
Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007, 6:44pm

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mercianfilm

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Finding genuine investors seems fairly hard for me- i wouldn't know where to look for starters biggrin That's why all the budget is coming from me biggrin It means i have to work ridiculously hard- but it seems better and fulfilling in the long run.
Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007, 2:44pm

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b4uask30male

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Here is the trailer

http://www.superteam.biz/roswelltrailerlarge.wmv

or smaller but less quality


www.superteam.biz/roswelltrailersmall.wmv

p.s.

selling off cowboy costumes etc, if anyone is interested.
Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007, 8:07pm

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Sollthar

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Nice trailer. Very superteam productions. smile

Good luck with the distribution.
Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007, 8:16pm

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er-no

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Interesting trailer, the titles and beginning need some work.. but I'd say the key area that needs work is the audio, the actors are never actually 'on mic', so as much as your camera-work and progression with some other film-making areas have improved, the audio stuff needs attention, and you had 20,000£ this time, and I'd love to see a price breakdown of what the money was spent on! Costume did look good though, so nice one!

As Marco said, good luck with distribution! smile
Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007, 8:22pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +2

Getting investors and access to the set, props, costume, actors and equipment is a fantastic achievement. However, and I hate to be a critic.... That's where the compliments end. Not unlike everything you've made Ian - the camera work, sense of edit and production values are next to none.

The progress you're making in regard to what you can capture on film has grown and grown - just I can't help but feel you're not making even close to 10% of the brilliant things these assets could be used for. Perhaps now you've established some pretty fantastic connections it'd be a wise move to take a step back and have a look at improving the filmic aspects of your work rather than the technical nature of organising a film as at current I'm left with the strong feeling that a more talented director who is more open to improving from criticism like Ashman or er-no should be in your position regarding what you have available to you.

All the best
-Hybrid.
Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007, 8:30pm

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Sollthar

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I did tell him to read my filmmaking guide but he didn't want to, even though it's aimed exactly at people like Ian. People who have the necessary enthusiasm for filmmaking, but maybe not the talent or the technical knowledge to pull something proper off from the top of their head. I'd still recommend him to give it a good read, it's there to help.
But it's up to Ian really.

Plus I mean, he got his funds. So that's that. And yes, everything that money can buy does look pretty good in the trailer. But it's also a bit of a shame the film as a whole doesn't seem to cope with production assets of the sets and costumes. At least judging from the trailer.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:08am

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ben3308

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I'm going to have to strongly disagree with Hybrid on this one.

What you often get wrong, b4uask30male, is the pacing of your editing; and that appears to be the flaw with the trailer. From what I can see, the production value, visual quality, and cinematography (for the most part, namely the tracking shot across the bar) are all generally very good.

This is obviously a large step up from your other productions, and, though I never thought I'd say it: I'm impressed.

You need to tighten up your editing alot, though, as it points out some flaws in acting/camerawork/lighting that quick, snappy editing would otherwise conceal.

And I know I said this in my message, but I don't think fully saturated (as in the trailer) or fully sepia (as you thought you might consider) will work. Perhaps blue-subtracted, low saturation color balance, with a bit of a luminance boost and contrast? I dunno, these are just ideas.

Ultimately, this project is shaping up to be considerably better than I thought it would. Another suggestion I have is to crop the widescreen just a bit more, it'll make the movie look more epic, and fit the wider spaghetti-western aspect ratio.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:30am

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Bryce007

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Firstly: Put the link to the trailer on the first post of this thread...I had to search through the entire thing to finally find it...



Now, Onto the trailer:

The impression I got while watching it: Very, very video esque. It didn't seem to have any atmosphere or show any sort of main character in a cinematic way. The Lighting was flat, and the depth of field was VERY deep.

(I understand the grading hasn't been applied yet..but honestly...)


For That kind of money, I would have expected the trailer to kick abit of ass "Atmosphere" wise, due not only to the possible content you could purchase, but the Actors one could secure.

Overall, this doesn't really make me want to see the film, so I'll wait until I check out the next trailer or even the finished film to make any sort of calls on the film.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:26am

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Atom

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Rating: +1

Sollthar wrote:

Plus I mean, he got his funds. So that's that.
Filmmaking isn't about getting the money, though. It's about stretching it, prioritizing, and using what you know, isn't it? 'Professional' has become such a fluid and objective term, it irritates me to death.

Directors don't pitch ideas or find producers, marketers and agents do. The show 'On the Lot' made it seem like it was all about getting the funding, which I hated. Sure, it's very hard to get funding most of the time, but to me that's not filmmaking, that's business- and in my mind they aren't one in the same.

As for the trailer, it improves on the mistakes you often make, Ian, quite amazingly. But, for the budget (not to get into another RvD2 rant, but) I would expect you would be more conscientious and read into technique quite a bit more.

For how high the production values are (and how much higher they could've been), I expected a lot more atmospheric and 'movie-ish' stuff.

You can add only so much in post:
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 7:34am

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b4uask30male

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Thanks guys, but anyone that has had money for films will tell you, money is money, money doesn't make a director!!

The money went on lights, costumes, location, minibus, food, generator, campsite, hotels, some filming equipment.

So you see, when you say you would have thought having a budget would have improved the filming, your wrong, a budget simply allows you to shoot more freely.

Please note we didn't have a budget for the things I think you think we had, such as, cameraman, grip, boom pole, lighting director etc,
What we had with the budget was the above, the rest was still me and and a few friends helping.

Now, If I had a bigger budget, things I wanted to get were: make up artist, 2nd cameraman, lighting crew and another week of shooting wink

thanks for your comments, glad you liked it.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 8:00am

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Arktic

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I have to say, I sympathise with people who have tight budgets to work on - it's difficult to know what to prioritise and what to leave out. So congratulations on actually getting anything of this scale made, which is always a great acchievement.

But I don't have such a high opinion of the trailer itself. Unfortunatley, as someone has pointed out, it felt very much like video - I'd even go so far as to say it felt like I was watching porn, except I wasn't turned on, not even with all those men in cowboy outfits wink Seriously though, it had no atmosphere, no sense of style, it all just seemed very... nothing. Maybe the grade will help you out, but I'd be suprised if my opinion changed when it came to the finished film. Just my opinon, of course.

Also, for god's sake PLEASE either learn how to do motion graphics, or get someone else to do your titles and graphics for you - they look so utterly dire, that they made me almost switch off after the first ten or twenty seconds.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 8:23am

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b4uask30male

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I have to admit i've not got any software for titles, but in my defence I'm not very good at that artistic side, same goes for website design, I can make excellent films, but suck at other things, but hay I'm trying.

As you may know I'm planning on shooting a film with a budget of 1 million called Slow Down, you can be rest assured that I will using all the help I can pay for on that film.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 8:28am

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Sollthar

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I disagree atom.

I mean obviously, artistically, filmmaking is about making a good film. Something that your audience enjoys and can connect to. Unquestionably, that is in most cases bound to you being good at what you do etc. and good film works both on the technical and the emotional level.

But filmmaking is ALSO about getting money. And that's the part Ian has aparently succeeded, which is quite commendable however you look at it.
Obviously, money doesn't make a good film. But once you get a bit older atom and life's financial reality hits you, you'll find out that GETTING THE MONEY is indeed something filmmaking will always be about.

Edit:

b4uask wrote:

I can make excellent films, but suck at other things
Just read that and I have to ask, is that sarcasm or have you lost your sense for reality? I really can't tell. unsure

You realize it's sentences like those that make you get the kind of receiption you've been complaining about?
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 8:37am

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JackPot

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I saw lots of improvement from you other films, so on that I commend you. And well done in getting the budget together, thats great!

As for the trailer, I am not gonna go on about the technical aspects, as I have never made a film in my life, so cant really comment to much. But I was totally confused by the trailer as a viewer. I have no idea what this film is about, apart from its a cowboy film set in roswell. That seems like a fairly fatal flaw.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 8:42am

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Simon K Jones

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Great set and costumes! Looks like you pulled together some excellent resources there, something you always achieve to a good degree.

As for the trailer, its flat video nature I also found rather surprising and off-putting. Can you upload a high quality version that isn't compressed to destruction? It's hard to tell whether the picture quality is due to the original footage or the comrpession on the uploaded file.

Either way, the footage looks remarkably video-ish. It reminds me of a local news piece, or maybe a British sitcom from the late-80s. What cameras did you use on this? I'd really have tried to go for a more cinematic look, given the history of the Western genre, with proper dramatic lighting.

The trailer's narrative is a bit jumbled, too, I'm not entirely sure what the story is by the end. The final shot with the joke also falls a little flat. As Arktic points out, if you can't do top quality motion graphics, don't do them at all - starting off with cheap looking graphics spoils the rest of the trailer. You'd be better off playing to your strengths - the sets, costumes etc - and not trying to do stuff that can't be achieved to the same level.

b4 wrote:

I can make excellent films
I'd be interested to hear what you define as 'excellent'. Is this compared to professional quality films that you'd see in the cinema, or movie classics? Or compared to random YouTube videos or lightsaber battles? I'm curious to hear what benchmark you aim for with your productions.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 9:45am

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b4uask30male

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Hi

My comment about I make excellent films is just that, I love my films, ok some have flaws as with every film, but I enjoy watching my films and to me they are excellent.

Ofcourse I could say I make ok films, but then who would back me with money.

Money people need to know that you believe in yourself, I do and thus I hope that come across when begging for money.

Would you invest in someone that thinks his films are ok? I wouldn't.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:04am

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Xcession

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Rating: +1

I'm pretty impressed by this trailer. I'll admit that I had expected one of your usual films lacking self-awareness, but this looks like a lot of effort went into the right places.

The trouble is that the trailer fails to deliver. Two shots seems relevant - the guy falling over and the woman selling medicine to "cure all ills" - but I've really no idea why they're relevant. They're sandwiched by shots which do nothing and mean nothing. Is there meant to be some intrigue in this? Was i meant to be left wondering about something (in the plot, not the production)?

As far as the production qualities go, they certainly highlight how little distance 20k goes in the film-world, so I have a new appreciate for the costs. The sound was like a school musical, the picture quality in places like a home movie and the grading totally failed to make shadowy England feel even slightly mid-west.

This teaser leaves me with mixed feelings. This production values are of the standard that you should have been aiming for when you first joined FXH, so i'm optimistic for your next stuff, but at the same time I'm perturbed that even with a budget and potentially great location, you've still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

And regarding "excellent films" - since theres no one on this forum whos likely to want to/be able to fund you, your reason for using the phrase is flawed. Who was it aimed at? Even if a funder is trawling these forums for talent, your later admission that you're exaggerating undoes your original phrase.

Last edited Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:06am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:05am

Post 50 of 120

Sollthar

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to me they are excellent.
Hmm... That's probably why you have such a hard time to improve. Obviously you have to love your own films, that's why you make them, but if you see them in such an unrealistic light - you can't see where you have to put more work in to improve.

At least that's how it sounds to me.

Would you invest in someone that thinks his films are ok? I wouldn't.
I wouldn't depend my investments on what someone thinks of HIS work anyways - I've seen lots of crap by people who claim they're excellent. I'd watch the work myself and then decide for myself what I think it's worth.

Besides, you're not talking to investors here. You're talking to other filmmakers. This is fxhome.com, not givememoney.com.

I'll be honest: If I watch your work and then hear you talk like that I can't help but laugh about you. And so do others. Which is exactly why you get such lukewarm responses.
Your "act" might work with an investor, obviously does, but within people who can see what you're actually capable of and hear the way you talk about your films, you're bound to be the victim of ridicule and sarcasm, as obvious from pretty much all your latest threads.


This is not meant to be agressive or insulting, I'm simply trying to explain to you how I receive your posts and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

As with everything else, it's up to you what to do with that.

Last edited Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 11:39am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:06am

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b4uask30male

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Rating: -2

sorry i'm not excellent sad



I'm the worlds best smile

sorry that's me.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:09am

Post 52 of 120

er-no

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To you they are excellent?
I've never thought one of my own pieces was excellent, after a while, I'm the strongest critic of my own work and become tired and unhappy with most of it. I thought this was the general consensus as well if you spend that much time on a piece of your own creativity and work. It would appear after watching many EPK's that Directors and Auteurs alike think the same. You become numb to your own work, and the best audience is the critic who goes in unaware.

Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy it, I've just never found my own work to be excellent, I let the work speak for itself in all areas.

Investors don't care if you think your work is 'ok' or 'excellent'. They want to know that what they are investing in has a return, I was speaking to a few producers from Warner Bros whilst on Golden Compass a few months ago, and they explained that the best ideas that sell to the funders and distribution houses are ones with an idea. Whether that be original or already commonplace but delivered well, this is what I've tried to do with the latest short film of my own, deliver an atmosphere, an idea and a very stark contrast to the usual short film pieces. smile

Do you think your trailer is excellent then Ian?
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:24am

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b4uask30male

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God you lot bite, I throw you a line and you guys snatch it like there's no tomorrow.
Check my old posts I've said the same and play with you and you still bite.

Although I like my trailer, but and please read this.

I thought my trailer for psycho was good at the time, however I watched it back the other day and thought it was crap.

So, while i'm excellent today, tomorrow I may look at todays work and think it's crap.

Oh, i'm making a dvd with the making of, it doesn't show much of the film as the people filming would shoot other people and stuff, it's about 5-6 hours long if anyone wants to see it.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:26am

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Xcession

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We 'bite' because no matter how much you back-pedal after you make such a remark - we still suspect that your "playing with us" is actually massive, tragic self-delusion that we feel compelled to rectify.

Last edited Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:30am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:28am

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er-no

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Keep up the regress Ian, but you'll find that anyone with half a mind will quite easily agree that you're talking pubes. And as we all know, pubes are useless and at best, just annoying.

If you want to validate your claim that your films are excellent, and that you are excellent, send them into some serious film festivals and see what reaction you get. If you won't listen to what is in the majority kind words on fxhome and for the most part people trying to help you, when you hit the real world of film, you might find you make it, but none of your crew or cast will respect you, and I know from working in the industry for three years now thats something I would personally never want to happen. If indeed, I make it.

As I said before, I would love to see a breakdown of what you spent the money on? I'd like to see the callsheets you constructed for the shooting days?

Last edited Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:32am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:49am

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b4uask30male

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Rating: -1

No worries guys, no need to take up fxhome space on wondering if I think i'm great or not, I do, always will do.

Sorry for the compression but I won't use quicktime can't ever seem to play it so won't use it to do a trailer, the quality is good as you would expect from a hdv camera, however I do have problems (yes the mighty B4 has problems) in vegas, I have to use interpolate or i'll get funny lines across the screen, this is a problem vegas knows about so I had to transfer to dv widescreen, then to wmv file so the quality is reduced.

I'll be using the f790 hdcam camera and avid composer soon so the rest of my films should be the best quality even if you don't like the content.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:52am

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JackPot

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Rating: +1

As I can see it seems like you have spent the 20k quite well, the set looks great, as do the costumes. I think the other film makers on this site can get frustrated as you dont seem to take on board there constructive critisism. You may well learn from everything they suggest, but it doesnt come across that way.

I am pretty sure though everyone aggrees that the set/costumes look really good, and this project appears to be a big step up from your previous film work. You obviously have a huge talent for producing, as soon as your film making skills get to the same level you will be a force to be rekoned with.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:55am

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er-no

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I'd learn how to use the FX1 correctly in Vegas before moving to Avid Composer and an 790. If you don't even understand what interlacing is and claim it to be a 'Vegas problem' then you will definitely have issues using Avid whilst editing 790 HDCAM footage.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 11:21am

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b4uask30male

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I know how to use vegas but it's the bloody system they use, I read about it on the net, really annoying, that's one of the reasons i'd ike to edit on avid, plus the fact that the guy that's buying the equipment wants to hire me as an editor.
Before you all moan, he's buying the equipment to hire, he's setting up the edit studio in his house and he has got a great editor to work with him that knows avid really well, he's edited all sorts of things from top gear to assistant editor on feature films, anyway the guy buying the stuff has known me for years and i've edited stuff with him, now he'd like me to learn avid so if a customer needs an editor he can use either me or the other guy as in house editors.
Again, me being nice i'll still give the invite if anyone wants to use his equipment (i think it will be around the £1,000 per day for both camera and edit suite) I'll get you it for a lot lot less.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 11:30am

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Arktic

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I think that Ian's "I make excellent films" comment was designed to get you all to argue with him about how he's not an excellent film-maker. That way he can say 'you're all picking on me', and take his football and go home, simply because he doesn't like the feedback he's been getting.

IMHO, that's a very petty thing to do.

Arktic.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:13pm

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b4uask30male

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Arktic wrote:

I think that Ian's "I make excellent films" comment was designed to get you all to argue with him about how he's not an excellent film-maker. That way he can say 'you're all picking on me', and take his football and go home, simply because he doesn't like the feedback he's been getting.

IMHO, that's a very petty thing to do.

Arktic.
Erm, you comments are petty, I think i'm excellent as i've said before, what you think of is up to you, please note, i'm the one trying to bring the comments back to the film (GO READ ABOVE)
So your childish comments are the sort that starts arguements.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:21pm

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Simon K Jones

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b4uask30male wrote:

Sorry for the compression but I won't use quicktime can't ever seem to play it so won't use it to do a trailer,
That's a shame, as along with Flash it's probably the most compatible video playing system on the web.

the quality is good as you would expect from a hdv camera, however I do have problems (yes the mighty B4 has problems) in vegas, I have to use interpolate or i'll get funny lines across the screen, this is a problem vegas knows about so I had to transfer to dv widescreen, then to wmv file so the quality is reduced.
That sounds like a bit of a nightmare! Reducing the HDV to DV seems like a bad move, though, as it rather negates the point of shooting in HDV in the first place - ie, having a higher resolution frame. If you're downsizing to DV you might as well shoot in DV to begin with, so you don't encounter the compression artifacts inherent in HDV.

As for the 'funny lines', do you mean interlace combing? If so, they're not 'funny lines', they're just normal interlacing, which is how the video should be. Fiddling with that will also reduce the quality, and is something that should only be done for the final distribution (and probably not even then if it's aimed at TV).

If you're not sure whether they're interlace combing or not, upload a full quality (.would be good) still from the original footage and we'll take a look at it.

I presume you're only switching to WMV when preparing to upload to the web? You're not actually editing in WMV?

When shooting with a nice camera like the FX1 (same camera Sollthar used on Nightcast, I believe), it's a shame to have to damage the footage during editing - unless you're talking about using proxies, of course, in which case you can probably ignore this post. wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 2:09pm

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pdrg

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Guys, let's summarise and sidestep the personal stuff

Ian did well to raise £20k
Ian did well to shoot 90' with £20k
The trailer doesn't give enough to decide if the film is enjoyable to watch or not - once it's complete, it'll be interesting to see what festival audiences think.
£20k budget may become apparent with video DOF, etc.
Ian has access to some awesomely priced equipment which he's generously offered everyone here serious discounts on
Ian seems to have achieved a lot and has great contacts, despite the fact that he, like us all, is still learning
Ian is courageous showing his work here - he feels it 'excellent', and it's certainly no worse than some of the other 'excellent' videos we've been pointed towards, better than many, not as good as the best - all entirely subjective, of course.

To my mind, if Ian is able to get money to do bigger shoots, then whoever has the money clearly supports his opinion that it's 'excellent'. Speaking as a producer, I am very objective, I use evidence to evaluate the market, etc. People watched <<insert trashy Hollywood movie here>> and enjoyed it, people watched <<weird arthouse film here>> and enjoyed it. I probably hated both, but recognised different audiences liked different films, and different financiers liked them too.

Ian, seriously, we've chatted, we both know there are areas where you're more experienced than others. Attracting money seems to be a key strength, making films the funders like seems to be another. Entirely objectively, on those grounds, I'd produce for you. As a part of that, I'd surround you with key professionals to bolster up your team, let you focus on direction as opposed to camerawork, etc.

It's possible that we could spend wisely and make something your funder would love, and frankly, making a project that someone loves enough to pay you for is genuine success.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 2:23pm

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b4uask30male

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Hi thanks tarn and pdrg

Although I say i'm excellent it's tounge in cheeck style as if I was excellent you would be watching my films at the cinema, so i'm nearly excellent.
All good points and we have spoke and you do know far more than me and I'm still interested in gaining you as a friend/ fellow worker, employee or whatever you call it.

Vegas says the lines are interlaced and the monitor is progressive, if played on a tv they say it would be fine, but converting it and putting it on the net still shows those lines.

I won't edit the full film to dv it will still be hdv not sure yet what to do about the line issue sad I'm even tempeted to buy pinnacle studio 11, that can edit hdv, seems a shame to go backwards.

I can't seem to grab a frame on vegas it looks fine, on windows media player it shows the lines, i've tried print screen but when i save that in paint it doesn't show the picture inside. sad
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 2:39pm

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Cogz

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I'm surprised you haven't saved some of your budget to buy a better editing suite like Premiere or FCP, having said that I'm sure Vegas can do what you want, but I've not used it before so can't advise.

Is there not a way to export a single frame, and deinterlace it at the same time from Vegas, if you want a screen grab? I'll see if i can find the docs and figure it out.

As far as interlace vs deinterlace, this site is always helpful to understand whats going on:
http://www.100fps.com

Good luck with the rest of the project.

EDIT: perhaps look for a "Save Snapshot to File" button in Vegas, that might do it
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 2:57pm

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er-no

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If a screen shot has interlacing lines on it just use the de-interlacer in Photoshop Ian, that'd remove them.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 3:01pm

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Simon K Jones

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Of course, the whole point of uploading a still of the original footage was so we could take a look at it and advise the best way of using the footage, so deinterlacing or altering it in any way would make that impossible. smile
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 5:49pm

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pdrg

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Ian, keep in touch as you get closer then, and we'll meet up smile

As for editing HDV - HDV is an ugly format to edit (the MPEG compression means lots of re-rendering if you make any changes/dissolves/etc), but if it's what you've got, it's what you've got smile. Did you shoot HDV as 720p or 1080i? If 720p it is already web-friendly (progressive), if 1080i, it's more HDTV-friendly (loosely speaking)
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:30pm

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b4uask30male

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thanks,

It's 1080i

I've tried again with the lines, when I play back on wmp the lines are there and in pinnacle, but when i take the footage back into vegas the lines are gone, thus I can't grab a frame to show you sad
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:35pm

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JohnCarter

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b4uask30male wrote:

thanks,

It's 1080i

I've tried again with the lines, when I play back on wmp the lines are there and in pinnacle, but when i take the footage back into vegas the lines are gone, thus I can't grab a frame to show you sad
OK. It's most likely the same as in FCP - Vegas only shows you one field out of two on your viewer. To fix the lines issue, just deinterlace before exporting your project as a wmv. It will look fine.

If you did export a frame from Vegas, the lines would show even though they don't in Vegas.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:43pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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er-no wrote:

If a screen shot has interlacing lines on it just use the de-interlacer in Photoshop Ian, that'd remove them.
How many times do you need to read something before it sinks in Ian? Come on...

And as for exporting work in .WMV format, what sort of medieval barbarism is this!?

Last edited Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:52pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:46pm

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Simon K Jones

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Yeah, it does sound entirely like standard interlacing, so it's nothing to worry about and they're not 'funny lines'. It's just the standard way video and televisions have worked for decades.

Nothing to worry about, in other words.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 7:42pm

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Sollthar

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Rating: +1

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 9:53pm

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Tim L

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Ian,

Regarding saving a frame-grab from your movie:
------------------------------------------------------------
At the top of your preview window, select the option "BEST- FULL" in the dropdown list. You probably won't be able to see the entire frame, but it will be displayed 1:1 pixel size. Regardless, if set for BEST-FULL, the frame will be rendered full size (1:1) internally, but you will only see a portion of it in the preview window.

(You can undock your preview window and then stretch it bigger if you wish, but with HDV, unless you have a very high resolution on your video card -- 2048 x ???? or so -- you probably won't be able to see the full video frame at 1:1)

Now, when you click the Floppy Disc icon in the preview window to save a snapshot, it will save a full-size frame (the entire video frame, not just what you see in the preview window). Use Alt-left arrow or Alt-right arrow to step frame by frame and find one with interlace lines showing (objects in motion look like they have a "comb teeth" edge).

I know Vegas has two options for de-interlacing. I believe that "Interpolate" is better for video that has lots of motion, while "Blend Fields" is better at retaining detail when working with video that doesn't have much motion. (I'm not at all experienced with de-interlacing, though.) You might try playing with these options to see if it helps.

When you're done with the frame grabs, set your preview window back to GOOD-AUTO, or one of the other "Auto" settings. This will adjust the preview window so that you again see a full-frame image in whatever size your preview window is.


Tim L

(I haven't had a chance to watch your trailer... maybe later this evening.)
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 11:44pm

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william cheney

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All that is needed is some gradeing and run the footage through a cinemotion program. and tweek the trailer a bit. by the way the film already has a distributer If Ian decides to use them. no film fest needed. and I am the worlds most crappy director/producer LOL.

W Cheney
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 12:02am

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Sollthar

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Congratulations then.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 8:44am

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Nutbar

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Rating: +2

I've just watched the trailer and I have to say I didn't feel like I was watching a trailer for a cowboy/alien epic film, more like an advert for Big Brother 1847.

I'm no professional here but I think you seriously need to learn about budgeting. Its all good and well having budget for big name actors and HD cameras but surely not having Norman Llovett and HD cameras (which you have no idea what you're doing with as far as I can gather from your earlier posts) and spending the money on other things which you stated you wanted, like a lighting team or camera man, would have been a better idea. There are people on here who would have made the same quality of film as you have with half the budget (or better in some cases).

Of course this opinion is based on a trailer not on a finished product, maybe after watching the final product my opinion would be different, but based on the trailer I'd never find out.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 7:08pm

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b4uask30male

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Nutbar wrote:

I've just watched the trailer and I have to say I didn't feel like I was watching a trailer for a cowboy/alien epic film, more like an advert for Big Brother 1847.

I'm no professional here but I think you seriously need to learn about budgeting. Its all good and well having budget for big name actors and HD cameras but surely not having Norman Llovett and HD cameras (which you have no idea what you're doing with as far as I can gather from your earlier posts) and spending the money on other things which you stated you wanted, like a lighting team or camera man, would have been a better idea. There are people on here who would have made the same quality of film as you have with half the budget (or better in some cases).

Of course this opinion is based on a trailer not on a finished product, maybe after watching the final product my opinion would be different, but based on the trailer I'd never find out.
Hi sorry, please go and read my posts, I didn't say I hired a big name, meaning the money wasn't on him, also please read my posts, it's shot on hdv not HD, as everyone here will tell you and what i've learned there is a world of difference, hell I went to the broadcast show today at earls court looking into HD and Editing suites and I have to say to you, please read, the budget didn't go on cameras as you said it did, why oh why do people jump in and not read the posts, they are as bad as me.
Nor did I say I spent money on a lighting team, for gods sake man, read slower, your too quick to dive in with your 2ps worth, I'm like that sometimes but I do go back and read the posts before saying anything.
Come back when you say sorry for putting words in my mouth, I say this in a nice way as others may read your comments and use them against me in the future (this happens) and then I have to defend myself but get accused of defending myself, it happens check my old posts.

So please those people posting on the thread please read and get your facts right before you type.

thanks
Ian
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 7:19pm

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ben3308

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Cogz wrote:

I'm surprised you haven't saved some of your budget to buy a better editing suite like Premiere or FCP, having said that I'm sure Vegas can do what you want, but I've not used it before so can't advise.
Vegas is a better editing suite, much more intuitive and feature-laden than Premiere ever has been, in my opinion. Don't think it's not one of those NLE 'big dogs', because it most certainly is! wink

In fact, I think Vegas 6 and 7 are the most well-suited HD-ready prosumer NLE's there are, short of FCP HD.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 7:27pm

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Arktic

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Nor did I say I spent money on a lighting team, for gods sake man, read slower, your too quick to dive in with your 2ps worth, I'm like that sometimes but I do go back and read the posts before saying anything.
The irony of this, Ian, is that he didn't say you spent money on a lighting team.

He suggested you should have, rather than on other things.

I agree with him, I think it would have improved the production values hugely: a decent gaffer for five days shoot would have come in at around £500 - £1250 (and I reccon you could have bargained for someone willing to work at the lower end of that scale, with kit too), which isn't a lot considering that you had a 20k budget.

I also agree people should read posts more carefully smile

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 7:30pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Ian, I don't think Nutbar misread anything so to disregard his opinion is perhaps a little arrogant of you. Not simply because it's impolite, but also because he's making a fair point. And one that I agree with.

On Vegas, I more or less agree with ben. The software is definitely HD ready and more than capable of working with the majority of formats you throw at it. I've always preferred Première because it's what I've grown to learn though Vegas is definitely up there. I don't think this has ever been in question though - As Cogz's suggestion was based on the information Ian had supplied - that the application wasn't able to work with his footage with him downsizing it as a result.

If anything, these snippets of information/insight seem to underline the continuing theme that Ian once again, hasn't a single clue about what he's doing. Surprise.

-Hybrid.

p.s. I echo the sentiments of reading what people write properly. But also of writing properly too... You can only mention "you should read my posts!" so many times before it becomes obvious that you've actually nothing intelligent to say.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 8:52pm

Post 82 of 120

Atom

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And so I ask, how do you fake knowledge and experience enough to get funding?

I thought producers saw through bullsh!t. Seriously.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 9:54pm

Post 83 of 120

Nutbar

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b4uask30male wrote:

Nutbar wrote:

I've just watched the trailer and I have to say I didn't feel like I was watching a trailer for a cowboy/alien epic film, more like an advert for Big Brother 1847.

I'm no professional here but I think you seriously need to learn about budgeting. Its all good and well having budget for big name actors and HD cameras but surely not having Norman Llovett and HD cameras (which you have no idea what you're doing with as far as I can gather from your earlier posts) and spending the money on other things which you stated you wanted, like a lighting team or camera man, would have been a better idea. There are people on here who would have made the same quality of film as you have with half the budget (or better in some cases).

Of course this opinion is based on a trailer not on a finished product, maybe after watching the final product my opinion would be different, but based on the trailer I'd never find out.
Hi sorry, please go and read my posts, I didn't say I hired a big name, meaning the money wasn't on him, also please read my posts, it's shot on hdv not HD, as everyone here will tell you and what i've learned there is a world of difference, hell I went to the broadcast show today at earls court looking into HD and Editing suites and I have to say to you, please read, the budget didn't go on cameras as you said it did, why oh why do people jump in and not read the posts, they are as bad as me.
Nor did I say I spent money on a lighting team, for gods sake man, read slower, your too quick to dive in with your 2ps worth, I'm like that sometimes but I do go back and read the posts before saying anything.
Come back when you say sorry for putting words in my mouth, I say this in a nice way as others may read your comments and use them against me in the future (this happens) and then I have to defend myself but get accused of defending myself, it happens check my old posts.

So please those people posting on the thread please read and get your facts right before you type.

thanks
Ian

b4uask30male wrote:


A full 5 days shoot, 9am to 8pm (was longer than we thought)
We hired Norman Lovett from Red Dwarf.
Shot with 2 fx1's
Making of shot on HC3
We had 4 lights, large 6 foot relfector, smaller reflector, boom mic, 2 Jibs, 12foot and 8foot. 2 dollies, megaphone (cost about £10 but worth every penny) 4 radio walkie talkies, (used fully)
Total cost, including: Location, costumes, hiring minibus, generators, food, paying Norman Lovett from Red Dwarf, etc. £20,000 (although we still have scenes to shoot but shouldn't cost much)
I lost a lot of weight.
Now you quite clearly stated there you paid Norman LLovett, therefore money was spent on him. And i'd also assume that paying him cost you alot more for what you could have got done for free or expenses only. And yes I'll admit I assumed you paid for the FX1's and HC3 and you didn't actually specify that you did, correct me if you did get them for free, but these things are not really a necessity. If you can't learn how to stretch your budget I really don't think you'll get very far. There are people around, including on these forums, who could have made so much more out of the budget you had and it won't take people long to realise that.

EDIT, and yes, I know what HDV and HD are.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 11:16pm

Post 84 of 120

Tim L

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Ian,

I finally got a chance to watch the trailer -- several times.

From many of the posts here, one would think it would be absolute shambles. I thought it was fine. Overall I think it looks good. The dolly shot along the bar was cool. Of course, a movie needs a story, and at this point we have no idea how well you did there.

Does it look and sound like a top-tier Hollywood movie? No. Did I expect it to? No. But is it an embarassment? Not in the least.

You seem to get a lot more crap here than you deserve. Maybe its brought on genuine arrogance on your part, or maybe your humor just isn't understood correctly. But no need to bark back at somebody just because they barked at you first. Rise above it.

Regardless, you are making and *selling* movies. Like a musician playing in a band at a local bar, and a critic in the back row making comments on every song. At the end of the night, one of them is still a working musician, and the other one isn't.

So keep on making your excellent films. Of course, some of the comments about audio and editing should be taken to heart. Stick with Vegas -- it can do everything you need. But don't lose your enthusiasm for making movies -- it's refreshing.

Tim L
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 11:54pm

Post 85 of 120

Sollthar

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Atom wrote:

And so I ask, how do you fake knowledge and experience enough to get funding? I thought producers saw through bullsh!t. Seriously.
Some do, some don't. And some just don't have the best taste or hand in choosing financial investments. They're still only human after all.

Finding producers is a bit like gambling. It involves a lot of technique, tricks and methods, but ultimately comes down to one thing: luck.

So once you go chasing after funds atom simply go ask yourself.... Do I feel lucky today? wink

Nutbar wrote:

If you can't learn how to stretch your budget I really don't think you'll get very far. There are people around, including on these forums, who could have made so much more out of the budget you had and it won't take people long to realise that.
While I obviously agree with everything you said, Ian is the wrong person to tell that to. Ultimately, it's the financiars decision to put money into superteam productions. Considering the quality they're able to pull off, a more then questionable decision, sure, but still a decision made. And Ian's basically just doing the one thing that makes sense: He says "yes" and goes and makes his films with the money he's given. Who wouldn't?
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 1:07am

Post 86 of 120

Atom

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Tim L wrote:

Regardless, you are making and *selling* movies. Like a musician playing in a band at a local bar, and a critic in the back row making comments on every song. At the end of the night, one of them is still a working musician, and the other one isn't.
Your analogy is flawed because if he was the musician, he'd be asking for critique after each song and then arguing with the audience about why a single note is out of tune.

And even if that weren't the case, I'd much rather be that critic in the back mocking a rude musician with delusions of grandeur. Because at the end of the day, that critic is the one who then goes home and studies and practices, and comes out with a better product in the end.

I'm sorry, but a poor musician standing onstage and continuing without trying to learn or practice is like going to the major leagues because you constantly throw a ball at a wall and catch it. Sure, you're playing ball constantly, but that just doesn't cut it.

You may be able to fool some people for a while and talk about your dedication, but in the grand scheme of things, without talent or practice, you'll only be able to hold on for so long.

And I hate to say it, but I'm hoping that time is up, and people with real understanding, dedication, knowledge, and talent have a grab at some of that money.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:16am

Post 87 of 120

william cheney

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Ian has buddys in the film business, and that helps with alot but the reason folks help him make films. Is one simple reason he has talent. And I hate to say it he has alot more talent than I do. I actilly get work in film and somtimes make small films of my own. There is a formula to making low budget films. One write a script or pick a script that you know you can achive with your budget. Find a distributer. ( it's not that hard and heres why) when a distibuter looks at a film (it can even be a good film) but it it has no name actor with a fan base odds are they will not distribute it, the film is not bankable without a star or stars. Heres the formula get a script that works with your budget attach a star then film it distributer will call you. Not that hard guys. I have distrbution in place for Recon 7 Down (I put Dirk Benedict in it) There is distrbution in place for Roswell 1847 (Ians looking for a bigger distributer)(I put norman Lovett in it) It's good to have a good bunch of email adresses and home phone numbers for stars Ian next few movies have even bigger stars in them. Ian knows the formula I told him how to do it. and now you know how it works and you can do it to. My gift to you take this formula and run with it it works in B films Hollwood has done it for years.

Bill
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:42am

Post 88 of 120

Atom

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Bill
The problem is, this post still screams "I'm helping you, so I'm not wrong", which is still an excuse. Even worse, you haven't said anything to contradict or defame yourself yet, and in defending completely wrong and convoluted claims Ian has made makes you seem like him.

So, first, both you and Ian need to learn how to space things out, capitalize, and create sentences so that people can actually read and understand what you are saying. Second:

william cheney wrote:

Ian has buddys in the film business, and that helps with alot but the reason folks help him make films. Is one simple reason he has talent.
This has been proven false enumerable times. The fact that you say he has more talent than you either says you don't think much of yourself or sorely misread the talent of people. At least, from what I've heard and seen this is true.

Find a distributer. ( it's not that hard and heres why) when a distibuter looks at a film (it can even be a good film) but it it has no name actor with a fan base odds are they will not distribute it, the film is not bankable without a star or stars. Heres the formula get a script that works with your budget attach a star then film it distributer will call you. Not that hard guys.
So.......if it's not that hard to get, and funding/distribution is the only thing we're all crediting him with doing well, what does this say? Ian has no personal talent resources. Surely you aren't insinuating that.

Plus, your comment is circular. Stars are only stars because they have popularity because they can either act well, making them expensive, or are in WIDELY-distributed movies, again making them expensive. Now, why would they want to be in a low-budget, not-guaranteed-distribution film?

You're not helping anyone by saying 'get big stars in your movie and you'll get distribution'. Sure, I'd love to have Tom Cruise in my movie, I'd probably get great distribution. But filmmaking isn't a fantasy world like that. And if you think it is, I seriously doubt your professionalism.

Ian next few movies have even bigger stars in them.
Question: How do you continually get funding and bigger budgets and stars if you're not delivering a bigger and more professional product?

Sorry, but you and Ian write such nonsensical "I know and you don't, so I'll tell you how" stuff that it leaves me asking several questions.

The last one, too: Ian- If you only make movies for your liking and you think they are excellent, how/why do you get funding? You know the point of funding is for the benefactor to count on an audience liking the movie and getting a good return because of that. You liking it means nothing. Really.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:16am

Post 89 of 120

b4uask30male

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Thanks Tim L words of wisdom there.

So again back to the trailer instead of words that i've used in posts!!!

Glad everyone liked it, as always I know you'll all want to see the finished film, fingers crossed you'll see it in shops, failing that in a year or two it will be edited up into segments and put on the net.

Onwards and upwards.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:33am

Post 90 of 120

ben3308

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b4, even though I'm not sure of your technical skills or your reception to advise completely, I've got this to say:

If you can convince people to give you 20 thousand pounds to shoot your movie, then you'll undoubtedly be able to convince someone to distribute it.

Hell, just yesterday I found Recon 2020 at Blockbuster. Blockbuster, the number one video rental company in the United States! If that movie can make it (albeit with better technicals, but half the entertainment), then I'm sure you can.

Keep on truckin', my friend!
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 8:49am

Post 91 of 120

Sollthar

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William Cheney wrote:

Ian has buddys in the film business, and that helps with alot but the reason folks help him make films. Is one simple reason he has talent. And I hate to say it he has alot more talent than I do. I actilly get work in film and somtimes make small films of my own. There is a formula to making low budget films. One write a script or pick a script that you know you can achive with your budget. Find a distributer. ( it's not that hard and heres why) when a distibuter looks at a film (it can even be a good film) but it it has no name actor with a fan base odds are they will not distribute it, the film is not bankable without a star or stars. Heres the formula get a script that works with your budget attach a star then film it distributer will call you. Not that hard guys. I have distrbution in place for Recon 7 Down (I put Dirk Benedict in it) There is distrbution in place for Roswell 1847 (Ians looking for a bigger distributer)(I put norman Lovett in it) It's good to have a good bunch of email adresses and home phone numbers for stars Ian next few movies have even bigger stars in them. Ian knows the formula I told him how to do it. and now you know how it works and you can do it to. My gift to you take this formula and run with it it works in B films Hollwood has done it for years.
Wow, are you guys twins? It's the conspiracy of the brackets. crazy
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:04pm

Post 92 of 120

b4uask30male

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That's why I LOVE this site, forget the film AND MOAN ABOUT THE SPELLING OR TYPING.

Sorry solly, but for crying out loud, there's people on here I've seen spell or write worse than me or william, do they get moaned at, sadly yes, and before you say they are only 13, my daughter is top of the whole borough and can out spell (I'd say) most of you on here and she's only 13.

Now if I say I won't come back here as I feel movie making has been pushed aside for COLOUR GRADING or SPELLING issues then I'll get accused of leaving because I can't take critasisium (spelt wrong I know)
If you don't mind i'll start a post with a poll asking if this site has lost it's way, people don't have to show who they are when voting but i'll be interested to see the results.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:19pm

Post 93 of 120

Simon K Jones

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b4uask30male wrote:

Sorry solly, but for crying out loud, there's people on here I've seen spell or write worse than me or william, do they get moaned at, sadly yes, and before you say they are only 13, my daughter is top of the whole borough and can out spell (I'd say) most of you on here and she's only 13.
I'm glad your daughter can spell correctly.

I agree with you that complaining about spelling or typos on an internet forum is a waste of everybody's time. It's petty and unnecessary, especially when you acknowledge that an international forum like this one will have a massive variety of ages, nationalities and education levels.

However, that's not to say that spelling and writing clarity isn't important. As you've mentioned in earlier posts, self-promotion is extremely important. The way you present yourself to the world, especially when you're selling a product such as a movie, is extremely important. Nobody minds the occasional spelling error or typo (or, if they do, they should go find something more important to do with their lives), but when the writing quality results in clarity being lost it can get frustrating.

So, I say: people shouldn't comment on other people's spelling errors/typos, as it's a waste of everybody's time. On the flipside, it's also important for people to put effort into their posts to make them as clear as possible - otherwise, again, it's just wasting people's time.

Now if I say I won't come back here as I feel movie making has been pushed aside for COLOUR GRADING or SPELLING issues
See above for my thoughts on spelling.

Last time I checked, however, colour grading is part of movie making. In fact, I've always considered colour grading to be an absolutely integral part of the filmmaking process, particularly so on low budget productions when you don't always have access to the best cameras or practical lighting.

If you don't mind i'll start a post with a poll asking if this site has lost it's way, people don't have to show who they are when voting but i'll be interested to see the results.
By 'this site' I presume you mean the forum community? Or do you mean the entire site, including our news coverage, competitions, interviews and promotions of big and small films?

Presuming you mean the forum, then people on the whole seem to thoroughly enjoy the FXhome.com forum. We get many emails from people saying how much they enjoy the instant support and a glance through the cinema section shows lots of people receiving excellent and useful comments on their movies.

Your topics do tend to go awry, usually for exactly the same reasons every time, but a glance through pretty much any other topic at the moment shows interesting discussion and a friendly board.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:23pm

Post 94 of 120

b4uask30male

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sorry might just be me, but i remember way back when, maybe i'm just getting older sad
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:25pm

Post 95 of 120

JohnCarter

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Yet another let's pile on Ian fest. Yawn.

While I think the forum is still friendly, I must agree with Ian that a lot has changed and these bash fest didn't use to exist for very long, whether they were justified or not. This is now at page 7.

I for one fail to see the usefulness of repeating the same thing threads after threads. Certainly some of it comes from a sense of frustration of certain people that Ian does not seem to heed their advice. While Ian's statements may seem or often are preposterous, they are still harmless. Ignore them and move on! Obviously, from a certain standpoint, if Ian ignores your comments and it frustrates you, stop bothering! I fail to see what more it will give you if he suddenly starts following your advice.

Ian got funding. Good for him. Was it well spent? I have no idea, I WAS NOT THERE and I did not sign the checks. Neither were most of the people commenting on this very subject. You might have done better with the money, you might not. It is all specualtion after all, isn't it? The thread is about his trailer.

The trailer is very average in my opinion. While it shows a much upgraded production value, it still does have technical problems, especially audio wise. And I for one don't understand what the story is about from watching it. As a single piece of work, it's not Ian's best work in my humble opinion and while it may be outstanding in some ways, it's not in others.

But it amuses me greatly to see people bash the man for his lack of talent and whatever else they can think of when a lot of those doing the bashing have yet to make a film or finish one for that matter - and we are talking shorts for the most part here.

For all his faults, Ian has something that a lot of filmmakers here don't have: perseverance and enthusiasm. Year in and year out, he churns out his films, regardless of the outcome, regardless of the panning, regardless of everything. Think what you will of what may be perceived as foolishness or delusion, the fact of the matter is that HE DELIVERS A PRODUCT REGULARLY. Fred Olen Ray made a career out of it and so did numerous others. And that has as much appeal to an investor than great cinematography, grading or camera work. Not that these things aren't important or wanted.

NEWS FLASH: Filmmaking is as much about art as it is about business. While it seems baffling to some here, the capacity to deliver consistently is often BETTER regarded than talent. Because distributors need films in their slates and films are sold on posters and trailers, folks, not on greatness and talent, at the distribution levels.

A certain filmmaker locally is universally despised as being a hack because he shoots fast and he doesn't care. BUT!! When a film gets in trouble - usually because the talented director is taking too long to do his marvelous shots and goes over budget - and the completion bond takes over, the hack guy is the number one go to man for the bonding company. Why? Because the banks and/or the investors get paid on delivery of the film, regardless of it's visual qualities. There is a minium technical requirements to meet about white and black, chroma levels and so on, but frankly, that's about it. The artistic qualities of the film or the talent on display is irrelevant. This is about MONEY, not ART.

Of all my films, the most critically acclaimed one - and arguably the best in my opinion - is the hardest to sell. The one I hate the most - and the least "artistic" - is the best selling of the bunch... Go figure.

There are films at your local Blockbuster (Man Ben, what hick town do you live in in the Lone Star State? RECON 2020 has been released US wide in all Blockbusters since December 2006!) - that makes you think: Why did anybody fund this? And I could do better than this!

The problem is: Most people DON'T DO BETTER. In fact, most never do anything about it. And that's why people like Ian, who delivers consistently, manages to get funding while you don't, as baffling as it may seems to some of you.

And as for funding: while the numbers may seem huge, when you start paying people, feeding them, providing them with shelter and renting expensive specialized equipment, well it adds up fast.

What fantastic shots you managed to pull in a day with a bunch of friends helping you out, you now have to pull in an hour or find a simpler, cheaper alternative because anything else means bankruptcy.

The day you'll get a budget, you'll understand. You will also be judged against EVERYBODY ELSE with a budget, regardless of the amount. Whether you had $20,000 pounds (or less) or $200,000,000... The audience EXPECTS the same.

And for some of Ian's vocal critics who usually present a film with excuses and apologies, this will be a real hard awakening... Because as far as not taking criticism well, I have seen far worst than Ian on this board...
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:27pm

Post 96 of 120

Atom

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JohnCarter wrote:

Yet another let's pile on Ian fest. Yawn.
Yet another unprofessional, nonsensical, egotistical defense by JohnCarter. Yawn.

But it amuses me greatly to see people bash the man for his lack of talent and whatever else they can think of when a lot of those doing the bashing have yet to make a film or finish one for that matter - and we are talking shorts for the most part here.
Critics don't have to be creators. Don't give me that crap. And anyway, as far as I can see- the all-time top FXHome movies are made by those doing the criticizing. Warning Sign, Get Lost, Project One- these are all top-notch works by users with bounds of talent that surpasses what I've seen in this trailer. So don't tell me that "you didn't make it so you don't know stuff". I'm sure the audience and review he gets from actual people who have like you said, made a feature, will be far less kind.

EDIT: Sweet! A -1! I wonder who it's from!

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:40pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:37pm

Post 97 of 120

JohnCarter

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Atom wrote:


Yet another unprofessional, nonsensical, egotistical defense by JohnCarter. Yawn.
Unprofessional? What does that have to do with anything? I am not being paid for it.

nonsensical? That's your point of view.

egotistical? Where is my ego in this?

I am merely offering my opinion. An opinion is by definition ego based. Beyond that, I fail to see egotistic behavior in what I wrote. Feel free to enlighten me. I am afraid that it is a perception issue on your part.

Atom wrote:

Critics don't have to be creators.
You are absolutely right but this is a filmmaker-centric website, is it not? And the criticism in general on this thread is being of a filmmaking nature, hence creator driven.

As far as not knowing stuff, maybe change your tone. The way you talk is as if you do but it obvious from many of your tirades that you don't have a shadow of a clue about how this industry works. And for all your bashing of b4, you display a very similar lack of acceptance of others opinions and criticism, with rudeness on top and excuses in tow.

I don't care much for your particular brand of trolling and hijack of threads but feel free to continue the conversation in the form of PM as decent individuals would do.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:48pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:48pm

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Simon K Jones

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Atom wrote:

JohnCarter wrote:

Yet another let's pile on Ian fest. Yawn.
Yet another unprofessional, nonsensical, egotistical defense by JohnCarter. Yawn.
That's the kind of attitude we're trying to avoid, Atom. Unnecessary sniping that spoiled what was an otherwise interesting post.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:00pm

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ashman

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This topic before is becoming personal, in fact it already has between a few members. This thread was created for a trailer and now for some reason there are insults flying back and forth. People are getting upset and I am considering locking the topic.

While I understand why some people are getting annoyed or upset there is no need to put on a show. This is not the playground, it is a film forum. Let's keep it clean and hold the personal insults.

I wish Ian all the best of luck with the rest of production and we should be giving him our support. While it is important to be honest we should also respect other people's feelings and understand they can be hurt by overly harsh comments. If the comment is not for the public, maybe a personal messege would suffice as not to fuel the fire.

Basically, let's get back on form here, keep it clean or this thread will be locked.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:01pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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I think we're starting to deviate from the point at hand here.

The vast majority of criticism has complimented Ian on his ability to increase his production values through funding, location and actors yet have shown serious concern regarding what he's using it for. This isn't down to budgeting, having to shoot on a time scale or any lack of enthusiasm but simply an ignorance towards his critics and a general cluelessness which is to be frank, irritating.

Sollthar shot Nightcast with next to no budget, in a strict time frame and I'd say that both as a product and artistically it eclipses anything that Ian or infact you, JC have yet achieved. And that alone for me defeats any argument based on timeframes, money or industry you may try to throw up in defense.

The factor, which everyone seems to have missed which separates the good from the bad is simply attitude and a willingness to improve by any means as well as being realistic as to what you are achieving - this is something that both you and Sollthar have always presented full awareness of, yet Ian hasn't. That's all there is to it.

It doesn't matter what the project is, the scale, the budget, the timeframe. If someone suggests a simple way to improve your work on any level and you simply make excuses rather than take the advice - that makes you an idiot.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:20pm

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nanafanboy

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well said Hybrid.... perhaps something along those lines should go in the forum guidelines.

Well... I have a feeling that now that Ashman has stepped in and laid down the law, that this thread is going to quiet down a bit.

I just want everyone who participated in this to realize that Ian is not the only one who has made mistakes in this thread. He is getting the brunt of it... but its not all his fault.

for one thing... let's talk about criticism. Its a wonderful thing... when it's constructive. Just a day or so back I made a 3d werewolf and showed it to my fxhome brothers in the forums... what did they tell me? precisely what was wrong with it. It was a little hard hearing people tell me that the creation I had worked so hard on had problems... but I am so glad they did, because now I am making another one and it is already turning out to be leaps and bounds better than the first. If it weren't for the likes of Sollthar and the other fellows who told me what I needed to hear I would have put my first Scooby-Doo looking monstrosity in the movie... and it would have been lame.

now

There is also criticism that is totally destructive... and it is worthless... it has no place in these forums. If what you say to someone about their work amounts to nothing more than "it sucks" then get the F off these forums... you don't belong. This is a place to grow as a filmmaker... and if you discourage people by telling them they have no talent, or that their creation sucks... then you are trying to kill artists. Regardless of how good someone's creation is... if it is presented in these forums you know it was made with vision and sweat and blood. These are not million man, million dollar Hollywood machines at work here... these are independent filmmakers and they all deserve respect.

So please people... if you are going to criticize... do it intelligently. No insults. No tearing down.

on the flip side

If you are insulted or criticized unfairly in these forums, then you have two choices. Respond with intelligence and dignity... or ignore it. That's it... those are your choices... and if you can't do either of those things... then get the hell out.

These forums belong to all of us... Here we have a voice, and a presence... don't abuse it... put it to good use. Personally as a member of this community I hate seeing threads like this... and I would very much appreciate if it doesn't happen again in the near future. I think most of you would agree.

Show your work and support your fellow filmmakers. Thats what it's all about, people. No one is going to help us... so we may as well help each other.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:26pm

Post 102 of 120

ben3308

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JohnCarter, I think you're widely mistaken in what you're saying; probably because you don't know the whole story here with Ian and the issues he and these other guys have with each other.

It seems you often jump into threads of his to defend him without actually reading the correct tone into the antagonists' posts. I'm not trying to say I'm going to side with anyone here, just that I think you need to delineate the views of people before you judge them.

And for the record, I live in Dallas, the most urban developed city in all of Texas. It's in the top 20 of the largest cities in the world. I looked forever for Recon, and it wasn't until two days ago when I was browsing in the pre-viewed section that I found it. I tried to buy it, but the lady informed me that was their only copy, and it was rent-only. I gotta say, man, I would've opted for less colorful, more grungy cover art (as in Deaden), because the DVD just screamed B-movie as soon as I picked it up. But of course that's subjective, so I won't get into that.

As for the defensive comments about time, budget, and artistic skill: I finished a movie a few weeks ago that I made in one day with 30 dollars, and the atmosphere in it far surpasses anything I've seen from Ian.

Note that I'm not saying it's better, just that it has distinct atmosphere from the attention to depth, grading, lighting, and set-dressing (something Ian has managed to get right, more-so than anyone else on this site, I think) which makes it more filmic than the home video-ish look of what we've seen from the cowboy film.

Now, onto the note about not arguing when you know he won't listen: you couldn't be more right. Ian and I have had our differences in the past, but I've discovered it's just better to play into what you know he'll be receptive about; and that will, in effect, help him. I constructed my posts to fit what I knew would help rather than irritate, and I think that's why there's not so much of a bad air between us anymore.

But this is all subjective, as I've been saying.

Regards, Ben
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:35pm

Post 103 of 120

JohnCarter

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Sollthar shot Nightcast with next to no budget, in a strict time frame and I'd say that both as a product and artistically it eclipses anything that Ian or infact you, JC have yet achieved. And that alone for me defeats any argument based on timeframes, money or industry you may try to throw up in defense.
Actually Sollthar had a bigger budget a a longer time frame than what I had for the first RECON. I chose to pay people which limited my schedule and my resources, he had to put his money on his production value or whatever else he chose to, which was his prerogative since it was his project and a damn good film it is. As I said before, to each his own - fact of the matter I wasn't there hence I don't know how he spent it but I am sure it was justified within his circumstances. I am the first to recognize Sollthar skills and to champion him every which way I can. But that does not invalidate my arguments one bit. The point I was trying to make is that this is an industry and that there is place for all kinds of filmmakers and filmmaking styles in it - one of which relies on perseverance and stable delivery of products, which I think Ian fits the bill for. I think some people around here are caught in the Entertainment Tonight! Syndrome of glitz and glamour and "talent" to the detriment of any other type of filmed entertainment.

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

The factor, which everyone seems to have missed which separates the good from the bad is simply attitude and a willingness to improve by any means as well as being realistic as to what you are achieving - this is something that both you and Sollthar have always presented full awareness of, yet Ian hasn't. That's all there is to it.
I think that b4 has always made this point clear: his choice of attitude and his "beliefs" are what allow him to continue despite everything - it is his leitmotiv, as annoying as it may be to some, that's what keeps him going. I see nothing wrong in that while I may well understand why the tone irritates some. But when somethings annoys me, I don't blab on about it. But that's just me. And this thread is just about to make me reach that level. I have seen many of Ian threads degenerate, partly because of himself, partly because of others who seem to want to steer it that way. It's not fun and I felt compelled to say something about it.

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

If someone suggests a simple way to improve your work on any level and you simply make excuses rather than take the advice - that makes you an idiot.
Then there are a lot of idiots on this board because a lot of people do just that here.

I am not defending Ian's style - but as far as bashings go, I could point out a lot of others who deserve it more than he does because they do the same damn thing yet somehow he seems to be the pinata for all the others that should get the same but don't...

ben3308 wrote:

JohnCarter, I think you're widely mistaken in what you're saying; probably because you don't know the whole story here with Ian and the issues he and these other guys have with each other.
You might be right because it puzzles me every time. But still, from an outsider pint of view, it does not help the image of the site. Again, my opinion.

ben3308 wrote:

I gotta say, man, I would've opted for less colorful, more grungy cover art (as in Deaden), because the DVD just screamed B-movie as soon as I picked it up.
See, and I am not holding it against you - you'll find out eventually how it all works, but when you sell the rights to your film to a distributor, you actually have no say in the matter of artwork. YOU SOLD THE RIGHTS. They can do as they please with the artwork - that;s why you have wildly different posters for films internationally - unless they feel the artwork is relevant for their market or don't want to spare the expense. I personally dislike this artwork even more than you do and I told them so. But they feel that this artwork will sell on their territory and who am I to tell them otherwise? I don't live there! I can't tell them how to conduct their business. My favortie artwork was done by the Japanese - I think theirs rocked big time. The artwork for Deaden is what we did in house - what it will end up being in the US is anybody's guess - as I said, they bought the rights...


ben3308 wrote:

As for the defensive comments about time, budget, and artistic skill: I finished a movie a few weeks ago that I made in one day with 30 dollars, and the atmosphere in it far surpasses anything I've seen from Ian.

Note that I'm not saying it's better, just that it has distinct atmosphere from the attention to depth, grading, lighting, and set-dressing (something Ian has managed to get right, more-so than anyone else on this site, I think) which makes it more filmic than the home video-ish look of what we've seen from the cowboy film.
And Ben, I haven't seen it and I won't dispute it - I believe you. That's not the point. You seem to have a passion for lighting and you focus on that and everything that goes around that and its great. I focus on other things, so does Sollthar or even Ian. To each his own. A lot of us here are trying to do the jobs of 30 people - you can't be good at all of them - it has to be seen and recognized - but at the same time, I think things could still be constructive without being unpleasant for what it starting to feel, from an outsider point-of-view, like some sort of petty vendetta. So what if the man doesn't take the advice and improve - a lot of others don't here and I don't see anybody throwing hissy fits everytime they post. That's all. I defend Ian because I do happen to like the humor in most of his films and besides being preposterous at times, I see nothing wrong in his behavior and when he is not talking about his films, he is actually very helpful to everyone so I feel he is being treated unfairly.

ben3308 wrote:

Now, onto the note about not arguing when you know he won't listen: you couldn't be more right. Ian and I have had our differences in the past, but I've discovered it's just better to play into what you know he'll be receptive about; and that will, in effect, help him. I constructed my posts to fit what I knew would help rather than irritate, and I think that's why there's not so much of a bad air between us anymore.
Thank you! That's a very valid and strong point you just made. Things would be more cleaner and better if people did just that or ignore it if it puts their panties in a bunch.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:52pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:45pm

Post 104 of 120

ben3308

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nanafanboy wrote:

If you are insulted or criticized unfairly in these forums, then you have two choices. Respond with intelligence and dignity... or ignore it. That's it... those are your choices... and if you can't do either of those things... then get the hell out.
Boomshackalacka!

I couldn't agree more, man. I couldn't agree more.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:49pm

Post 105 of 120

Rockfilmers

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Yet another forum gone to hell. wall
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:58pm

Post 106 of 120

Nutbar

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Rating: +1

JohnCarter wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

If someone suggests a simple way to improve your work on any level and you simply make excuses rather than take the advice - that makes you an idiot.
Then there are a lot of idiots on this board because a lot of people do just that here.
There may be people who do that but for the most part people do seem to take on the information and use it to improve. I've seen a few posts from the likes of ben/atom where they have responded in the same way that b4 did and still when there next film comes out you can see there has been a visual improvement. Yes, it gets childish sometimes, but 13-16 year olds can be forgiven for acting like children and spitting there dummy out occasionally, its what teenagers do.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 8:01pm

Post 107 of 120

Simon K Jones

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nanafanboy wrote:

Many wise things.
Well said!
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:36pm

Post 108 of 120

Atom

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First
Well put to the previous individuals who followed-up JohnCarters post. Most had clear, concise, and hopefully eye-opening points. +1 for all to that.

Second

Rockfilmers wrote:

Yet another forum gone to hell. wall
Lawlz. Yet another person thinking he knows what he's talking about. wall


I'm only kidding, Rockfilmers, not trying to give you a hard time. This goes just a tad further back than a month ago when you joined, though. smile

Third
I'll just throw this little snippet out there and be done:

As far as not knowing stuff, maybe change your tone. The way you talk is as if you do but it obvious from many of your tirades that you don't have a shadow of a clue about how this industry works. And for all your bashing of b4, you display a very similar lack of acceptance of others opinions and criticism, with rudeness on top and excuses in tow.
First, I'm 17. I can afford to be a little rude and close-minded. That's what separates children from adults. At least I have the capacity to understand that I'm not yet the latter. Granted, I could still be smarter than you two, but my age, experience, and maturity (maybe) cannot rival yours. That's age for you, and I'm not denying it.

The difference is, and it's a clear one I think, for all my bitching, I take those criticisms and build. And I think I have more room to gripe in the first place, since (IMO) my team is more resourceful and professional (at least, technically) than Ians. He can be the money-man all he wants, but I know what I can do and what I can build on. And this is the consequential divider between us.

Not to mention 15 or so years of age, which should also encompass maturity, but whatever. Let's not get into that.

Second, by the time I'm out of highschool, I'll probably know the industry better than him. I may not know it as well, but as egotistical as it sounds, I'm a smart and resourceful guy and genuinely think I'll figure it out. And if I don't? To hell with it, I'm having fun and have at least a smidgen of talent, and know I'll do just fine.

JC wrote:

I don't care much for your particular brand of trolling and hijack of threads but feel free to continue the conversation in the form of PM as decent individuals would do.
I'd rather you not insinuate I'm less than a "decent individual". That kind of harsh talk completely invalidates the above quote. Jeesh, man.

Finally, I've tried time and time again to listen to you, and while I've grown from a skiddish 14-year-old hothead into, IMO, a more open-minded and able-to-understand person, you don't seem to have. Again, I don't want to bring up the difference in age, but hell: it's big, and ridiculous that you insist on continuing these things.

Hybrid and I, Klut and I, we might have similiar arguments, but in the American Highschool mentality, we're all only a 1-4 years apart and are entitled to do so. Again, that's age for you. I'm trying as hard as I can to exercise restraint in my posts towards you two, seriously. Over the past 3 years, hopefully I have, but:

Both of your and Ian's self-proclaimed professionalism, delusions of grandeur, and entitlement-to-praise for, again IMO, mediocre and inferior-to-industry/budget product (No? It isn't? Nightcast yo' ass! wink) is not only frustrating but annoying. Not to mention both of you seem to like jumbling words and sentences together like a 3rd grader (not so much yourself anymore, though), it's no wonder some people treat you like one.

Still, I offer my regards and hope the two of you will learn from these threads and make better and more professional products in the future. And to this hopeful revelation, I wish you the best.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 11:42pm

Post 109 of 120

JohnCarter

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Atom wrote:

First, I'm 17. I can afford to be a little rude and close-minded. That's what separates children from adults.
Not were I was raised. Where I was raised, it separated those who had decent parents and those with no education. But that's another matter.

Atom wrote:

To hell with it, I'm having fun and have at least a smidgen of talent, and know I'll do just fine.
By all means, do.

Atom wrote:

I'd rather you not insinuate I'm less than a "decent individual". That kind of harsh talk completely invalidates the above quote. Jeesh, man.
I am not insinuating anything but if the shoe fits... You obviously haven't learnt from it since you go out of your way to drag this in public whereas I suggested you bring it forward as a PM, where it belongs.

Atom wrote:

Finally, I've tried time and time again to listen to you, and while I've grown from a skiddish 14-year-old hothead into, IMO, a more open-minded and able-to-understand person, you don't seem to have. Again, I don't want to bring up the difference in age, but hell: it's big, and ridiculous that you insist on continuing these things.
Funny - it seems to me that YOU are the one that keeps coming back with snipy quotes every time I post something in the obvious hopes of starting a fight. Please. Grow up.

Atom wrote:

Both of your and Ian's self-proclaimed professionalism, delusions of grandeur, and entitlement-to-praise for, again IMO, mediocre and inferior-to-industry/budget product (No? It isn't? Nightcast yo' ass! wink) is not only frustrating but annoying.
My claims to professionalism are proven: I am a professional editor by trade. Look up the definition. I am, sadly for you it appears, also now a professional director and screenwriter because I have been paid to perform those functions, regardless of what you think of the end product, you cannot deny the fact that this is what a professional does: getting paid for what they do.

As for delusions of grandeur, you have a few miles on me in that department... But granted you are a kid. I have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever. I am very realistic about who I am and what I do and most people who have met and worked with me will confirm that fact, including some on this very board. You are making up a judgement based on what you'd like me to be because it suits you...

And as far as entitlement for praise as you call it, I can't even recall when I even remotely requested that. I take criticism very well when it's constructive and I don't mind when its bad as long as it makes sense. A lot of people can also attest to that, since obviously whatever I say has no value to you - ask around for validation of my claims...

As for NightCast vs my films: they are made in different ways by different peoples with different skills and different budgets - despite what Hybrid thinks, it is apple and oranges and it does make a difference. I can't wait for you to make your first union shoot! Ask Sollthar, he was on one of mine! He'll tell you about the Magic Guide and other fun stuff!

NightCast is a very good film, the better for some, not for others. There are other films, cheaper that look as good and are better. Who cares in the end? It's not a competition. Actually, Sollthar and I work together, not against each other. A much more sensible approach.

Atom wrote:


Not to mention both of you seem to like jumbling words and sentences together like a 3rd grader (not so much yourself anymore, though), it's no wonder some people treat you like one.
English is not my first language, unlike you, but if you would like to try a verbal sparage in French, I think I would have a lot of fun with you!

That being said, I am very tired of you constantly attacking me, my posts, my films at every opportunity. Don't like my films? Don't watch them bozo! I don't attack you every time you post, so do the sensible thing and leave me be as I try to do to you - until you try to start a fight for whatever reason. I enjoy this board but your presence makes it a difficult proposition sometimes. You talk about maturity, well show that you have some and let people be. You hate my guts, fine. Stay out of my way like I do yours. It's funny how I am always made out to be the bad guy when morons like you keep provoking me...

Best of luck with your stuff too! One day you'll get a healthy dose of what you serve and maybe you'll learn something about humility.

Now for God's sake, let's be back on topic: b4's TRAILER for Rosewell 1847.

Last edited Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:08am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:04am

Post 110 of 120

Bryce007

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This argument is sort of nil. I can't actually believe its getting this petty....


Seriously...


(Perhaps we should start a "Atom VS. Everyone else" thread)

Btw JohnCarter, You seem abit more reasonable these days, good to see.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:05am

Post 111 of 120

Hybrid-Halo

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For the record, I am actually 6 years older than you Atom. This means you must respect my wisdom at all times, I'll have you know.

Back on topic, JC - if Ians leitmotiv is to be ignorant then why does he post his work for feedback at all, and why does he respond in such a negative way to his critics? Surely if the only thing that keeps him going is blindness then anything we say doesn't matter. Right?

Whilst I agree that perhaps Ian is able to cater for a region of the film-making industry, it's besides the point. He's come here to this community to have his work reviewed and it has been found to be lacking, attempts have been made at suggesting how to improve in often small ways and these have been ignored due to 'the way he works'.

If the fundamental way in which this community has always worked is in such contrast to the way Ian claims to operate, then what does he stand to benefit from being here? It just seems silly to me... I do understand that he's not the only one, but he's treated no differently to other who have displayed similar behaviour - he IS the only one to blab on about it.

I'd also like to add that I don't believe being a professional and professionalism are statements that go hand in hand by any means. You can get paid for something yet be of a level of expertise yet to be considered professional or have skills regarded as of a professional standard.

On another subject - this JC/atom thing disappears after this post. Bit silly that.

-Hybrid.

p.s. Are you done editing that post yet? I count 13 edits in 10 minutes now... There *is* a preview function. smile

Last edited Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:15am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:11am

Post 112 of 120

Tim L

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Atom wrote:

First, I'm 17. I can afford to be a little rude and close-minded.
No, you can't.

I don't think you realize how much your attitude undercuts the points you're trying to make. That you think you are "entitled" to be rude and close minded, while you insist people 15 years older than you don't have the same rights, even further erodes support for your views.

Personally, I'm old. Way old. And I didn't want to bring age into this, but I'm glad that you did. I confess that I am continually amazed at the talent and the skills of the people in this community, especially from teenagers, high school kids. But seriously, I could have pretty much guessed your age before I clicked on your profile.

Please, don't misread what I am saying about age. I have many times been very, very impressed with the accomplishments and knowledge of the many teenagers that make up so much of this community. But too often posts have attitudes that sound more like smack talk from a gaming site.

Atom, print out this entire thread and save it somewhere, and then look at it again when you're two or three years out of college. By then you'll understand better.

Tim L
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:16am

Post 113 of 120

er-no

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Bryce007 wrote:



(Perhaps we should start a "Atom VS. Everyone else" thread)

Btw JohnCarter, You seem abit more reasonable these days, good to see.
Don't get me started on you Bryce. wink

As for the rest of this topic. Pretty easy to summarise.

It's nice to debate, but I hope people can come to the same conclusion here. For a topic and problem to keep occurring it must mean that overlooking all the heat and differences, some opinions within the topic are justified and correct. It only remains to be seen if these opinions will be taken on the chin and made use of. People should never be so quick to defend criticism. I agree with what Ben said, it is sometimes the critic who comes away with the better prize. In the long run, if the comments being made are far and wide in a negative, then please learn from them.

Everything I'm ever told that is bad I try and quickly take in, and work out whether it is justified, I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I can ask opinions of people around the world in particular jobs and roles. Yet there is never just overwhelming praise for my work, and for each positive comment I receive a negative in its place. If you assume yourself to be already brilliant Ian, you are already missing the point of film-making, and like the greats say, a piece of work is never finished, it is only abandoned. If you feel you make something complete, there is definitely something wrong in your logic.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:49am

Post 114 of 120

JohnCarter

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:


Back on topic, JC - if Ians leitmotiv is to be ignorant then why does he post his work for feedback at all, and why does he respond in such a negative way to his critics?
If the fundamental way in which this community has always worked is in such contrast to the way Ian claims to operate, then what does he stand to benefit from being here?
Hybrid,

I am not Ian. I cannot answer for him.

I just find that every time he posts something, it turns into a circus. It's not only tiresome and an eyesore, it's getting ridiculous and childish.

OK. The man won't learn. He won't follow the almighty advice he's been given. So what? Who does it hurt? What does it do that is so bad that people are going out of their skins for it?

I don't see it. I think he has his place like everyone else and I believe, every chance to be as successful if not more than many for the very reasons I stated in my initial post, but if it is such a big deal, ban him! You are a mod, after all, aren't you?

I enjoyed most of Ian's films, especially his Stargates. I like his humor. I find him not to be a bad actor. Heck, I hired him for two films and he got very good reviews (so I am not alone in my delusion!).

We already know you don't like his films and his work and his attitude: don't watch him/talk to him/ whatever. Ignore it. It's not like its a moral obligation to answer to everything he posts. Maybe if you stopped paying him so much attention, he WILL go away. Since it appears that's what is wanted from most of you, which would be sad because he's been very helpful to me and countless others - and has the force to prove it as far as FXhome commodities go - then ignore everything and eventually, he'll move on, I would assume.

Hybrid-Halo wrote:


Are you done editing that post yet? I count 13 edits in 10 minutes now... There *is* a preview function. smile
As stated above, English is not my first language and I don't thinkl that fast in English. So after reading my preview, I think I'm done and hit submit then another idea strikes or a better sentence formulation or whatever... Hence the multiple edits. What can I say. I am a slow witted dimwit who speaks French and a talentless hack to boot! Now that's something to be proud of!

Cheers!
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:55am

Post 115 of 120

Bryce007

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er-no wrote:

Bryce007 wrote:



(Perhaps we should start a "Atom VS. Everyone else" thread)

Btw JohnCarter, You seem abit more reasonable these days, good to see.
Don't get me started on you Bryce. wink
I don't follow....?


My former editor is the one that stirred up all that hilarious controversy back in the day...
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:03am

Post 116 of 120

er-no

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JohnCarter wrote:


I just find that every time he posts something, it turns into a circus. It's not only tiresome and an eyesore, it's getting ridiculous and childish.

OK. The man won't learn. He won't follow the almighty advice he's been given. So what? Who does it hurt? What does it do that is so bad that people are going out of their skins for it?
Just to jump in here JC, before others reply and this spirals once more. And this is my opinion, from atop my beautifully golden fence, of which I have acres of lush green grass on either side, the problem is, its been mowed recently and I have hayfever.

Seriously though, 'What does it do that is so bad that people are going out of their skins for it?'. Ian not accepting criticism, responding back with 'witty' remarks, it winds people up, true. It probably shouldn't happen. But it does. With regards to you 'So what?', well if that is the problem as you've stated then Ian creating a topic in the forums asking people their opinion on the matter... fuels the fire.

As we all know, fxhome is a close and friendly, extremely helpful forum. I myself thank Ian for helping me 5 or so years ago, yet I feel his attitude and opinion has changed, perhaps a few years ago he would take on board negative but valid comments, whereas now he seems to just openly dismiss them. It is ashame. As I mentioned in my previous post.

Anyways, that my two cents on your comments JC.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:25am

Post 117 of 120

JohnCarter

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er-no wrote:

With regards to you 'So what?', well if that is the problem as you've stated then Ian creating a topic in the forums asking people their opinion on the matter... fuels the fire.
Fair enough er-no - i am not trying to convert anyone to my views - I am just trying to understand. I agree wholeheartedly with your quote above however and it did fuel the fire. My perspective is different. It doesn't mean I endorse Ian's actions 100% at all time, but I do think there is an obvious overdramatization of the situation on both side of the fence: Ian's and FXhome community ( at least a fraction of it).
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:49am

Post 118 of 120

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

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SuperUser

I'm hoping to explain certain things in all honesty, from my personal point of view. I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but I feel the need to respond to certain things and be perfectly honest about it. Just want to make that clear from the beginning. Please read my post as an honest "exposure" of what happens inside my head, if you will.

I agree with what you wrote earlier JohnCarter. I could let it - "it" being the b4uask thing - go and simply not bother to reply and leave it alone. And I probably should. But somehow, I can't.

JC wrote:

I just find that every time he posts something, it turns into a circus. It's not only tiresome and an eyesore, it's getting ridiculous and childish.
You're right. It does. Ian has a tendency to write threads which spur reactions just like this one. This is by far not the first time and, should Ian continue to post in here in the same manner, will not be the last. Now why is this?

Here's the part where I'll be honest:

In my perceiption, Ian has shown a remarkable lack of ability to listen to others. Unlike other people, I personally feel he has hardly evolved in terms of his filmmaking over the last years I've seen him work. Sure, he got better cameras, now he got money for sets and costumes etc, but in all the areas money can't buy and better equipment can't hide, I see little to no progress.
That itself is not really my problem you say, well. It's a bit more complicated then that.

JC wrote:

The man won't learn. He won't follow the almighty advice he's been given. So what? Who does it hurt? What does it do that is so bad that people are going out of their skins for it?
Alright, here comes the honesty: It does make me feel provoked. In some weird psychological innuendo, I see it is a form of personal attack. There is someone coming here, posting his work, asking for help and I give it to him. I also see other give it to him. Spending their time to give tips - but he entirely ignores most advice he's been given. At least it appears that way to me. So I do feel somewhat mocked.

Now, you're right. This is the part where I usually stop bothering and simply move on. Which is what I did for a while. But then, the second thing came up: This "I'm excellent" attitude that has been increasing more and more is, in the context of how I perceive Ian - someone with little abilities and an ignorance for the tips he's been given to help improve those abilities - again something that makes me feel being mocked. And that is a provocation to me. It's what I'd call "arrogance". An arrogance is annoying.
Of course, I could be wrong with me perceiption. Other people do perceive the whole thing differently no doubt, as also shown in this thread and others.

But then again, I don't believe that Ian DOESN'T realize he's provoking. I shall quote him from this very thread:

b4uask wrote:

God you lot bite, I throw you a line and you guys snatch it like there's no tomorrow.
Check my old posts I've said the same and play with you and you still bite.
So, he does it on purpose. Now, that is even more provoking. And yes, I have no problem admitting it, I bite. And Ian seems to know it to and provokes it. It's these "interpersonal" things that let these threads get out of hand. At least for me.

The fact Ian makes films that I think below average in terms of quality is not really the problem. But this in combination with those interpersonal things, become a problem.

JC wrote:

We already know you don't like his films and his work and his attitude: don't watch him/talk to him/ whatever. Ignore it.
Now why can't I ignore it, even though I know I should?

Difficult to say. Maybe because I'm a frequent forum reader. So I do see and read a lot of what is happening here. So I also read through the b4uask threads. And I hear those interpersonal provocations, even though hardly directly aimed at me, very loud.
So basically, transferred into real life, this is like sitting in a room full of people speaking and there's this one guy, who keeps saying things that you feel provoked by. Ignoring that person is very difficult and yes, I'm not man enough to do it obviously. I bite.

What I read in this thread and others provokes a mixture of anger, because that's how I react to provocation, odd laughter, because I do find some of this to be a histerical farce, and even compassion, because I ALSO know that it isn't nice to take sides against someone and it's something I don't enjoy.

This thread hasn't helped Ians case at all really. Again to me, I perceive his posts as arrogant ( "I'm excellent" ) and actively provoking ( "I play with you" ) and I simply can't let that go, as much as I know I should and would like to.

And that's simply how I feel. It's in both Ian's and my hand to change that. And I'm willing to do it. Now I said how I feel. Ian's welcome to do the same and maybe we can get to a consensus so this stops. For us and for others.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 2:23am

Post 119 of 120

rogolo

Force: 5436 | Joined: 29th May 2005 | Posts: 1513

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Gold Member

Vladkob, anyone?
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 3:15am

Post 120 of 120

Garrison

Force: 5404 | Joined: 9th Mar 2006 | Posts: 1530

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Gold Member

Man that's why I LOVE this place!!! It beats any Must-See-TV!

Garrison pours some whiskey in his coffee and watches the drama unfold


eek