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New Pics* 3D werewolf character

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:15pm

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nanafanboy

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This is the first "Flesh & Blood" CG character.

(be sure to scroll horizontally for a view of the whole model.)

http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs16/f/2007/168/3/8/AOB_wolf_by_Dustin85.jpg


He'll be used in my upcoming film.

(I know he isn't the greatest quality... but he will mostly be in the dark in the film so I am not sweating it too much.)

I'd love to hear some opinions and suggestions.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 12:26am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:31pm

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Rockfilmers

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He looks real good. What program did you use?
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:38pm

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Sollthar

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Hm, he looks like from a comedy or kids film to me really. crazy

He looks very cartoonish. Textures are tilted, look very flat and low resolution and the model itself is still too "round" and "clean".

Or maybe you're going for the "cute kids movie" approach and I'm just entirely missing the point here. But judging from what I've seen and heard so far from your production, you're going for something darker. And this guy looks cute. I doubt he'll be looking scary even if he's only in the dark.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:41pm

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Rockfilmers

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Red eyes, sharp teeth, blood tirsty smile, it's amazing what some people consider cute. wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:56pm

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nanafanboy

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I used 3D Studio Max and Mudbox

I see what Sollthar is saying, but the character has no expressions yet, and he hasn't been animated.

I think when he starts sneering snarling and tearing people to shreds he may be a bit more frightening.

If he isn't, then I will redo the entire thing. I will definitely redo the texture... it does look low res... and a bit to even and clean. Maybe some asymmetry will do him some good... I'll make a higher resolution map and dirty him up a bit when I get home.

in my defense, I am not a 3d artist by any means... I do my best but its not my field of study. I simply don't have much else at my disposal, so I am forced to do these things myself.

Thanks for the criticisms though, Sollthar. I will definitely take it into consideration.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 12:59pm

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Sollthar

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Oh, heh, I just saw that there's more then the closeup head. Didn't see I could scroll to the right. smile

The full model looks better then the head closeup! I like how his upper body looks from the front, not sure about his side view though. The chest and belly, while utterly different in size from the front, appear almost the same when seen from the side. That's a bit odd to me.
The long fingers are slightly odd and saucage like.

I still think he doesn't look very scary though. But the full model looks way better then the head closeup! It's actually very cool on some details.

I am not a 3d artist by any means
Looking at that, I'd say you're wrong. wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:10pm

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nanafanboy

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Haha... yeah... probably helps if you see the whole thing

Yeah... the side veiw has been bothering me... That can be easily adjusted though... I will mess with that when i get home... shouldn't be too much trouble. I gave him long fingers so that he could palm a swat team members head... but maybe they could be adjusted to be less sausage like. They do lack some detail.

I will update the thread with new pics when I get them done. Thanks again

P.S.
I will never claim to be a 3D artist... I'm just a dude who has some programs and can follow some tutorials. wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:13pm

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mercianfilm

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The detail of teh whole body is superb! Pretty amazing for someone who doesn't consider himself as a 3D artist!
I think that because you said you'll have renders of him snarling and ripping people to shreds that he(or she for that matter!) may need the head redoing- it looks to human but with wolf like features - maybe add a mane of fur from the top of his head halfway down his back to 'bulk him out' slightly and make him look much more threatening.

Really well done though!
Sam
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:15pm

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JackPot

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I think that werewolfs look scary when they show their upper teeth,
like this



I can't tell if you have modelled the upper teeth as well as the bottom. If you havent you should, so the above expression can be acheived when animating.

Here is a cool looking model of a werewolf, which kinda follows the point of scribble - bulking out the head a bit with some fur;



I think he should have more of a hunched posture as well, like the model in the above picture.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:24pm

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nanafanboy

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The last two posts are really weird, because I was considering (and at one point had) a mane of hair down his back

and

I was actually looking at that exact same wolf picture when I was looking for a growling reference. oh and yes he does have top teeth. It will be a few days before I get his morph targets set up, but I will definitely show you guys.

Oh and... about him looking too human... thats actually sort of important in a way. A sort of "theme" of the story is that the character is half wolf and half man... and he is evil... but its the man that makes him evil. The man half makes him kill for more than food. An animal cannot be evil.

I think some expressions and better texture work can make his noggin a tad scarier... I will work on that. I will also try the hair thing that was suggested.

Thanks so much guys. This is exactly why I posted this here. This has been so much help.

Keep the criticisms coming if you have them.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:26pm

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mercianfilm

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That is exactly what i was thinking (the second picture) that'd definately scare me lol (in fact just seeing that i think i may hav done a little poo....joking...obviously confused )

Ahh i wasn't sure if it was your intention to make him more human than wolf, or vice versa- but he looks good either way!
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:30pm

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JackPot

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What you have so far looks really, really cool, im sure when its animated it will be scary looking.

I think the legs and torso look great. I would perhaps suggest making the hands bigger like in the second picture too. At the moment the hands dont look like they could do much damage smile In fact those fingers look like they may snap off wink
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 1:36pm

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nanafanboy

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I agree about the fingers... I think the key here is to make the fingers shorter and rounder, and make the palm itself longer. It will be more animal like and perhaps a bit more intimidating.

I'm not entirely sure how I should do the fur around the head (and I may add some throughout the body as well) I know that Max has a modifier that adds hair... but its results can be kind of sketchy.

If anyone has any ideas about how I could add those thick patches of hair in a manner that won't take 4 years to render I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks again everybody.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 3:08pm

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cory

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Honestly, the face looks quite a bit like the CG Scooby-Doo from the live-action movie. I think this particular shot adds to it; it almost looks as if he's smiling at us.

I would love to see him in action, though. CG werewolves are hard to do, even for a highly experienced 3D artist. The best one I've see was in the Doctor Who episode, "Tooth and Claw" (season two, episode 2 of the new series). If you never saw it, I would suggest it for inspiration.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like quite a lot. So much, that I'm beginning to wonder if I can beg/bribe/hire you for a project I've got in mind.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 3:30pm

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nanafanboy

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Actually. I will do commissions.

I can't really afford to spend that sort of time and do things for free, but if you need some commission work then I am happy to help.

(don't worry... I am like... incredibly inexpensive)

drop me a line at

loststudiosltd@gmail.com and we can talk about it.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:03pm

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petet2

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Firstly I think the model is excellent and I would agree with the praise above.

I do think that the werewolf has a gentle expression - I can imagine a children's thriller movie where it would appear and be intially scary but then help a child out of danger.

The wolf photo is an excellent starting point when looking at what needs to be changed - I think that being an animator (whether 3D or puppet) is 50% artistic talent and 50% observation.

Look at the difference in expression between your wolf and the photograph. What are the tiny nuances that make the difference between a benign expression and an expression that is the last thing you will see before your death (e.g.: squinted eyes, bared teeth). I think that with a few changes of facial pose you will achieve your aim - don't redesign the whole model.

Study movement - film yourself moving in the way you would like your werewolf to move and then go through frame by frame to see how your weight transfers from one foot to another as you move.

And keep posting your results here! I am constantly amazed by the level of talent within this community.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:16pm

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nanafanboy

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Thanks so much

I agree with you and have thought about these things. The model in the pictures is the absolute base. He has no expression sliders or anything... but when he does he will be narrowing those eyebows and baring those teeth like nobody's business.

I am gonna do some heavy texture work tonight. I think he needs some implied wrinkles on his nose and beneath his eyes. It should age him a bit and hopefully make him a little more sinister. I am also going to go for a darker color. I am also thinking about screwing up one of his eyes... make him blind in it... make it scarred or something. He should look more like he has been through hell.

oh and i have an actor who is doing the motions for the werewolf (ala doug jones) to aid me in my animation. he's a really animated guy and also loves werewolves (I think he wants to be one) so I should get some interesting stuff from him.

so... my list of stuff to change is

hands (more powerful fingers... bigger hands in general)
texture (darker, higher res, more detail)
Stomach (thinner in side view)
Posture ( more slouched... might have to wait til he is rigged)
teeth (make the upper teeth visible and maybe add some snarling)
also add fur in various thick patches throughout the body

hmmm... if I forgot something then let me know.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 6:42pm

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fxmaniac

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i would sergest rather than have circular pupils try a king of slit type pupil if you know what i mean like this

http://www.grmstudio.it/textures/doschdesign/TEXTURES/Animal_Eyes/DemonEye_03.jpg
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 7:10pm

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nanafanboy

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I would "SUGGEST" you check your spelling (sarcasm sarcasm!!! it's a joke!)

hmm... I'm not sure slitted pupils would really make sense. He is half human, half wolf... and neither of those have slitted pupils

Thanks for the suggestion but I think I am going to have to pass on that one. Especially since I am rather proud of how his eyes turned out.
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 7:16pm

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fxmaniac

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good point i never thought of that i was just trying to see if i could think of a way to make it look more eviler.

yeah i really suck at spelling
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 7:19pm

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B3N

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well you seemed to spell ok there smile.

Anyway, the model looks good but doesn't strike me as evil. However it's a still so I'm looking forward to how it turns out.

B3N
Posted: Mon, 18th Jun 2007, 10:50pm

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petet2

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fxmaniac wrote:

i would sergest rather than have circular pupils try a king of slit type pupil
If you check out JackPot's attacking wolf pic above you can clearly see that wolves (like humans) don't have slitted pupils. I think if you went that way you may make your wolf more cat-like.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 10:48am

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nanafanboy

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I have decided to use what I have learned from modeling this character, and my fxhome brothers' suggestions to model a new one. After seeing that sculpture or whatever that Jackpot posted, I think it would be a good idea to just start fresh and take a slightly different route this time.

I'll go for bulkier, uglier, and quite a bit more pissed off. I have a while before the model actually needs to be done, so I have plenty of time to give it another go.

I will post some pics, of course, when I have completed the new model.

Thanks so much guys. I may be consulting you on all of my 3d stuff.
Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007, 7:10pm

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tyguy2021

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He needs a big bushy tail.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 12:25am

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nanafanboy

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Didn't get to work on this as much as I wanted to. Here is the new head. I will have body pics in the next few days. He has no texture yet... so that will help later, but I think he is already looking scarier

what do you guys think?
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 12:56am

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Sollthar

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Definately more scary, yes!

If you're going for genuine horror darkness, I'd suggest adding details like scars and hairs that stand out and make him look less "smooth".

It's mainly the smoothness of the model that makes him look less scary. If you could visually work against that by adding more details to make the silhouette look "dirty" and "uneven".

Like the pic below for example. The silhoutte itself is scary because it's not flat or smooth at all. The skin and fur is dirty and tousled.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 1:14am

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nanafanboy

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I agree Sollthar. Like I sad he doesn't have a texture right now... so I think with the texture I will be able to make him look a bit more ragged... add some scarring and darken his eyes and such.

If I can figure out a good way to do hair then I will do something with that too.

I am also playing around with the idea of deeply scarring one eye to point that it is cataract and white.

I think this version is going to be much better and much scarier thanks to everyones suggestions.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 8:51am

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Sollthar

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The texture isn't the problem. It doesn't change the silhouette. It's the model. There needs to be more detail in the actual model.

Yeah, hair can't be done with a 2D texture and look good. You'll need to actually model some hair detail in 3D.
Or do a low polygon trick. Do most with textures, but also add some hair as simple texture polygons to "stand out".
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 8:52am

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Klut

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Except for the smoothy, that latest head model looks kick ass.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:26pm

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devilskater

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the model isnt that bad at all, the texturing is the most important AND the most difficult part...

but I would suggest, to bend the teeth a little bit, they are straight, and there arent teeth that are straight ^^ they all have a significant form...

the "lips" are a little too flat...would bevel that in a little bit more...but through texturing you will be able to include flesh wounds, and stuff like that...

hope these few critics/suggestions will help you,

cheers,
d.
Posted: Fri, 22nd Jun 2007, 9:08pm

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petet2

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I just got an email from Content Paradise that linked to this page

http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/home.php?cat=2626

People are selling these werewolves for $20-30 and yours beats them hands down mate!