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Has this forum lost the way?

When you post a movie, the kind of feedback you get is mainly...

Complimentary6%[ 4 ]
Helpful58%[ 38 ]
Unhelpful0%[ 0 ]
Pedantic0%[ 0 ]
Unpleasant8%[ 5 ]
A mix of the above29%[ 19 ]

Total Votes : 66

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:17pm

Post 1 of 96

b4uask30male

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Over the years I've found more and more posts about films on here talking about more about grading and peoples spelling than helping the film maker.
I hope I'm wrong but thought i'd let you put a tick in the box you think, You don't have to write your answer and I feel you might not want some of the other forum members knowing how you feel, theres a peer group here and if you're worried about going against the grain then just tick the box without putting your name to it.

If I'm wrong at least it's possibly just me, but if i'm right and the helpfullness of years gone by has been replaced with wry comments then at least this post has served some good.

Best regards
Ian

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:01pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:22pm

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

I've edited your poll so that it actually makes sense. Originally your question and poll options didn't make any coherent point.

For my thoughts on this actual 'debate', I'll quote my words from the other thread:

Tarn wrote:

By 'this site' I presume you mean the forum community? Or do you mean the entire site, including our news coverage, competitions, interviews and promotions of big and small films?

Presuming you mean the forum, then people on the whole seem to thoroughly enjoy the FXhome.com forum. We get many emails from people saying how much they enjoy the instant support and a glance through the cinema section shows lots of people receiving excellent and useful comments on their movies.

Your topics do tend to go awry, usually for exactly the same reasons every time, but a glance through pretty much any other topic at the moment shows interesting discussion and a friendly board.
One final comment, about this:

b4 wrote:

I feel you might not want some of the other forum members knowing how you feel, theres a peer group here and if you're worried about going against the grain then just tick the box without putting your name to it
As anyone that knows me will be well aware, I practically encourage people to 'go against the grain'. I consider it very important in life for people to question 'the party line' and consider their options.

I also strongly believe that FXhome.com allows for people that have very different opinions and attitudes to those of the team. For example, I've often had heated debates with Republicans and devout religious people here - but at the same time, I'm extremely glad they're here, simply so that somebody is representing their outlook on life. I respect them, they respect me (I hope!).

Similarly, I've had disagreements with certain members of the community (mostly over contrast and glow... wink ), but we respect each other and it's fine.

Variety, as they say, is the spice of life. I wouldn't want anyone to think that they weren't welcome here simply because of their thoughts/opinions/etc.

All I do ask is that people are considerate and polite.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:42pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:25pm

Post 3 of 96

Xcession

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Online communities have a habit of regulating themselves organically. If someone is out of line, they get put in line. If someone is routinely pedantic and abrasive, they'll get their come-uppance, if someone is often arrogant and deluded, they'll get clued up.

It happens several times a year, but most users wouldn't remember those incidents, unless they themselves were the problem.

Once the problem is solved, things will settle down again. If the problem refuses to be solved, then you get these polls.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:29pm

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doppelganger

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Its still the most friendly and helpful forum I've been. With the exception of a few people.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:48pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Fxhome for me has always been somewhere I could present work or an idea and be safe in the knowledge that the feedback I'd get would be largely an absolutely honest and sometimes blunt opinion from a mix of experienced and new film-makers.

I've always treasured this, regardless of peoples opinions of my work as the criticism has always lead to my improvement. I hate to say this Ian, but this whole thread is something you've created out of an unwillingness to accept that some of your work hasn't been very good and people are simply telling you this.

As for grammar and spelling, of the mods I'm probably the most pedantic but you'll be hard pressed to find me making comments regarding spelling or grammar. This is a text based forum so it's important that what you write makes some sort of sense - else there can't be an appropriate response. Spelling and Grammar are simply mandatory.

Fxhome has always been about improving and no one is above this, not me or any of the moderators and not any of the best film makers in the cinema, people who can't accept and even fight that should, I'm sad to say - find somewhere else.

You need to decide if that's you.

Regards
-Hybrid.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:49pm

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Redhawksrymmer

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Rating: +2

Since the name of the website is "FXhome - special effects on your desktop" I would think it would be quite fitting if people talked about grading and other post-production related topics on the forums...

FXhome is the best online community I've ever been to. smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 2:59pm

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b4uask30male

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sorry the poll isn't valid for me now, ofcourse everyone will say yes it's helpfull seems a bit sad that although you may have thought the question was worded wrong the question is now totally different.


But my question was: regarding people's films.

Simply (hope this doesn't get edited)
WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.

You see two VERY different questions, I'd even go so far as to say by changing my question was FXhome worried by the outcome?

I won't bother to go on as the poll doesn't ask the question I wanted to know the answer to.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:07pm

Post 8 of 96

Simon K Jones

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b4uask30male wrote:

Simply (hope this doesn't get edited)
WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.
If that's what you'd originally written, I wouldn't have felt the need to edit it. Unfortunately, what you'd actually written the first itme round didn't make sense.

Either way, my edited poll question: 'Are the FXhome.com forums still friendly and helpful?' seems to cover almost exactly the same ground.

Your two points are:

1. Too much commenting on grading and spelling, which you imply is unhelpful.

2. Too much commenting on grading and spelling, which you find unpleasant, ie unfriendly.

My rephrasing of the question to something simpler and to-the-point was so that people could understand the core concepts of what was being discussed, without having to go and find a multi-page topic to get some context.

You see two VERY different questions,
I see two very similar questions, one of which is phrased in a potentially confusing way. Polls need to have very simple questions, otherwise they can mislead people.

For example, your poll presumed that people consider comments on grading to be a bad thing. I doubt many people would share your opinion (most people find such comments useful and interesting, especially given the post-production nature of FXhome.com), yet the structure of the voting in your original poll would imply support for your point of view. In other words, your poll wouldn't have provided any useful data or conclusions at all. Hence why it's important to phrase a poll question clearly.

Unless I'm missing something obvious, my rephrased version of your poll still seems to strike at exactly the same core question and debate.

I'd even go so far as to say by changing my question was FXhome worried by the outcome?
Why would we be worried by the outcome? The poll still points to a vital part of the FXhome.com community, the same debate that you're raising. The question is still being asked, just in a clearer fashion.

People can still vote 'no' if they want. If we were at all worried by the outcome, surely we'd just have deleted this topic entirely?

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:10pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:08pm

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B3N

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I think the cinema posts are pretty honest. People critise things they belive are wrong and therefore that's their opinion and if you don't like it then ignore it but take the comment seriously for future needs.
I think they are helpful and entertaining but like you say B4 'you think your an amazing filmmaker' so keep that self named title of yours and do things without giving to much of a damn about what other people think.

B3N
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:08pm

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Katsu

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WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.
Well... both ARE in fact helpfull..

I don't know where the problem is right now.
Pointing something out that is wrong in the eyes of the spectator... that is what critique is about.
What would be a helpfull comment besides pointing stuff out?
"awesome!"
"Your the man now dog!"

Sure those comments make even myself feel warm and fuzzy inside. But they are not helpfull.

So please state what "helpfull comments" are in your opinion if you don't mind.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:10pm

Post 11 of 96

Hybrid-Halo

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Rating: +1

b4uask30male wrote:

WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.
You spelt Helpful wrong there, buddy.

Just to clarify, what isn't helpful about comments regarding grading? I've found some advice I've received through these forums about grading to have massively boosted the effective look I can create with my low budget camera. I'd say that to be extremely helpful. It just goes to show that you have zero appreciation even for the people who have invested their time into trying to help you - which is infact the vast majority.

Also... If something is spelt wrong in one of my films then I'd very much appreciate it being pointed out. Very little is as obvious or as off putting as a spelling mistake in a movie. It's one of those simple little things that after having spent so long working on something should have already been spotted.

Honestly, it is sounding like the only advice that you're willing to accept without sulking and posting meaningless polls are in fact not advice at all and simply compliments. To be blunt, you're wasting my time.

If you're not happy here and are only going to constantly fight peoples honest opinion (To disagree is fine, but not simply disregard) then leave rather than mope about. It's as simple as that.

-Hybrid.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:21pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:15pm

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nanafanboy

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Rating: +4

I have been a member of this site since the early Alamdv2 days.

I love it here.

I have tried other filmmaking forums but none of them are as active or as useful as this one.

For goodness sake the filmmakers faq alone could be its own website. The wealth of knowledge to be had here is astounding.

here at fxhome if you have a problem with an effect or a shot or anything you can simply ask your questions in the appropriate forum and in a few hours you will have your answers. Its amazing.

This site... forum... whatever... has not lost its way. Sure there are some trolls here on the site who offer nothing more than sarcastic comments and revel in starting flame wars and ridiculous arguments... but for every one of them there is about 100 blokes who would give the shirt off their back to help another filmmaker.

I think, b4uask, you are very irritated at the moment about the events that unfolded in your other thread. You've never been one to take criticism well, and it seems that most of your threads turn into arguments. This is partially your fault and also partially the fault of people who have some real enmity for you. Because of things that have transpired in the past there will probably always be people on this site who will be irritated by the mere thought of you posting a thread, and they will jump at the opportunity to flame the crap out of you. The key is to not give them the satisfaction. Be courteous... be kind... be borderline saintly with these blokes who would insult you. Thank them for their criticism and they will learn to respect you. They'll recognize an even temper and realize that you don't deserve what they are dishing out.

if they don't

then another fxhomer will see that you are being assaulted and come to your aid. (that is of course if you are in the right). I remember many years ago when i posted some work I had done when I first got Photoshop. I was so excited to show everyone what I could do. The result was me posting pictures and fxhome members comparing it to their excrement. They labeled me as a sort of attention whore looking for praise. But I was courteous to them and treated them like their criticisms were real. When they kept on... a fellow fxhome member came to my aid (sidewinder I believe). It was at that very moment I realize how great these forums are. The mods and the experienced members watch out for the little guys. I took that as a prime example what a poster on this forum should be. I think plenty of people on here are living up to the model set down by Tarn, Sidewinder, and Mechaforce (as well as the entire fxhome team)

Sorry for the long post... but this forum is way better than you are giving it credit for. So please... don't let some bad experiences inspire you to damn this remarkable community.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:18pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Reading that made me smile nanafanboy. smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:26pm

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mercianfilm

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Personally the FXhome forums are the est and most friendlist i've ever been to biggrin They really are a community- unlike most other forums i've visited which claim to be, but aren't (Anyone that was on the old GW forums will know!)
However i think i agree with you when you say that there is a small minority of people who do give advice on spelling and stuff like that- rather than helpful hints and tips. I think that there's also a bit of a 'sheep' kinda thing going on to- someone that is respected and powerful on the forums says something on a topic then virtually every poster after that agrees with that person- regardless of their own opinions.
But, i'm not complaining- it's still the best and most comfortable forum i've ever been on and i hope it lasts! Here's to FXhome! hugegrin
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:26pm

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nanafanboy

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It's just how I feel. I deal only in the truth, sir smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:33pm

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Xcession

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For the record, after much cocking around, i've edited the poll to be closer to what I believe B4 is asking. He doesn't want your opinion of the community, he wants to know your opinion specifically about the kind of responses your movies get.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:37pm

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Simon K Jones

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b4uask30male wrote:

don't bother the poll has been changed by the fxhome team and not's valid as per my original question, everyone will say fxhome is friendly and helpfull but my question went deeper and I feel fxhome didn't want to know the answer sad
Editing your original post, a cunning way to avoid people that have already responded from noticing comments. smile

Your question went deeper, and we don't want to know the answer? If that's the case, why on earth would we have left your question unedited in this post:

http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=285614#285614

You have some serious paranoia issues. We welcome debate - as I've said in an earlier post, the reason your poll was changed had nothing to do with us not wanting people to read it, but simply because it made no sense.

Don't try and cover up your inability to conceive of an intelligible poll by accusing us of censorship. I take offence to that.

To reiterate b4's question, in case anybody missed it:

b4 wrote:

WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.
Please debate.


Personally, I find comments on improving my grading and spelling to be extremely useful. Thanks to everyone that has helped me with both over the years.


On another note, xcession has now edited the poll again to try and better reflect b4's original poll. If you voted on the previous poll, please go back and re-vote.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:46pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Xcession wrote:

He doesn't want your opinion of the community, he wants to know your opinion specifically about the kind of responses your movies get.
With the post titled "Has the forum lost it's way" but with the poll being specifically directed at the cinema I felt that I had to add this:

The FXhome forums have always been more than just the responses to cinema submissions. For me they've both been a social and artistic playground for a multitude of subjects ranging through religion, games, complex effects work and helping people get started.

If you're not going to look at the forums at the full scope of what they consist of then I don't think it leaves you in a position to think that they've lost their way at all.

For me things have definitely changed, but it's still the fxhome I value and love.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:57pm

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B3N

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Tarn wrote
b4 wrote:
WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.


Please debate.
I havn't posted any movies in the cinema so far but seeing all the other comments I read to improve on my knowledge don't really mention about grading or spelling, although the Atom bros always mention about grading smile. It's mainly the camera or the effects. In this case I belive that nearly all the comments are helpful providing tips and information about how the person could improve in areas, most of them are short "you rock" "your film is amazing" comments.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 3:57pm

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JohnCarter

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First things first, I must commend nanafanboy for a well thought-out, articulated and helpful post - lots of people should heed his advice. Nicely said IMO. (post number 12).

As far as the matter at hand, ie Ian's trial, while he may not alwyas have a way with words, I feel that I must state that I have seen far worst reactions to criticism on these very boards than his. So I have a hard time grasping the gang bang which seems to have led to this ever changing poll.

But to be fair, most comments and criticism are usually helpful on here.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 4:20pm

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Evman

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I've always found helpful comments, that if they didn't like the film, at least try to offer something useful to me in the future - things I actually do think about and try to apply to later projects.

Aside from the occasional troll who randomly votes a 0 on your film (American Idiots 2), which brings it down considerably, or a bunch of 1s (Superman vs. Destructor... I think some people who had competing movies at the time ganged up to vote that movie down so it wouldn't beat their's in the box office... lame), the people who actually take the time to comment are generally fairly helpful. Even though they're sometimes harsh, they do offer something helpful.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 5:51pm

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Thrawn

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I agree in that almost all critic and feedback on this site is, while sometimes harsh, is helpfull. I have not posted any of my videos on FXhome yet so I my point of view may be different then others who have posted there videos. But I have seen Fxhome critic everyones movies in a helpful way. Of course there are a few guys that give bad reveiws with no helpful hints, but there will always be people like that. I have seen a few harsh (but helpful) critics on your video posts b4uask30male, but I also see that you take it the wrong way instead of just accepting it. So I think fxhome is the great community it has always been, and I might see how you would think differently.

Thats just my 0.02
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 5:59pm

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ben3308

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b4, I do not think this forum has lost its way. There were points where I doubted the intentions of the FXhome staff, and even contemplating just leaving this site altogether; but I have to agree, for the most part the atmosphere around here is helpful.

Don't take my comments lightly, my friend, as I am probably the only one who has been in your exact same position on this website. I've posted up films that get automatic bad comments, and there have been people who have obvious grudges against me that they won't let go. Evman even made mention of this in one of my threads, and someone suddenly gave him a -1. It was later remedied, but I could still tell there was foul play. I've also had the same issue as Evman with the voting, with my most recent movie being given a 2 without real substantiation.

My situation has even been to the point where I've been minutes- yes, minutes- away from being banned permanently. So how do I combat this? I maintain the best attitude I possibly can given the circumstances, and I sustain the ability to word my arguments with precision and eloquence.

Let me restate this: I choose my words and write them (at least I should hope so) in an intellectual manner, devoid of major syntax or grammar issues; and this is a major reason why I'm able to 'bounce back' more and get on people's better sides. I think if you practice better conventions of argument, then you're much more bound to receive better response.

I want you to also note that I've had the same problems as you with defending my films. Whenever I used to try, I would get disparaged for trying. How did I fix this? I realized that the written word online wasn't the best conveyance for my tone, so I 'toned' the emotion down in my posts. It's easy enough to do: just cut the excess anger and drama from your wording, and you're golden.

Ultimately, while we may at times think this forum has its problems, we neglect to realize that perhaps we are the ones with the issues. It's easy to point a finger of blame at someone, but that doesn't make it right. This forum is made up of real people as we can so oft forget, and real people respond to comments in human ways. Accept the trivial issues of other people and move on. It's easy.

Once you've done all this, you'll be able to clearly see that this forum is, in fact, helpful.

Hope this cleared some stuff up.

Regards, Ben

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:46pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:00pm

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B3N

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Thrawn wrote

Thats just my 0.02
This 2 cents thing is popping up everywhere razz
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 6:26pm

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Nutbar

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As I feel my post may have partially led to this thread being made I think I'll put in my penny's worth.

I will not vote as I have never posted a video but as far as peoples comment generally they are helpful and informative not just to the people who made the film but to other people who may be reading it aswell.

The thing is, the advice is there, but some people either don't want to listen to it or just dismiss it out of ignorance, and that is usually where the heated discussions start. Because people say something that others just don't want to hear. Now if you're not the type of person who is open and willing to accept criticism then posting your videos here probably isn't the best idea as people will most likely give you there honest opinion and to be honest it probably isn't the best industry for you to be in as there will always be someone out there who doesnt like what you do. Hell, no-one likes it when someone tells them the work they've poured their heart into is utter crap, but here is the clever part, you go away and learn from it and hopefully produce something better next time. You can't ignore the advice and go away and make the same mistakes over and over and expect peoples comments to change. People don't say things in the hope to start an internet arguement, they say things in an attempt to help people improve. But people need to step up and take that advice.

I don't recall ever seeing someone comment on bad spelling in a film. But I would hope if I ever spelt something incorrectly in a film that someone would point it out as the ability to communicate, be it written verbal or visually, is a very useful skill no matter what you're doing.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:04pm

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Serpent

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Good posts to almost everyone, really. But I don't think he will heed your advice for those that gave good advice...

I have always found this forum helpful. When I first started people were pretty nice, despite my obvious low level of skill. This has really been the key that led me from my earliest films such as "Spies of a Feather," definitely in the lower tier on this site, to my current level only 3 years later. FXH has been the biggest asset in improving my skills. Not $30 Film School, Movie Maker Magazine, etc. Watching people my age improve along with he help of older talented members such as Aculag, Bryce, CX3, ajjax, Sollthar, Arktic, er-no, Hybrid Halo, JohnCarter, Andreas, etc. etc. These members have been helpful and are honestly responsible for improving my skills. The resources available are pivotal. B4UASK: the reason you don't find feedback helpful is because you simply aren't reading it. I usually avoid your threads because of the arguments that ensue, but I see it film after film. You simply aren't listening. If you don't want to listen, don't complain about it. I always thought your films were fun, but you haven't stepped up to the next level at all and I think you need to be more open minded. Of course, you'll probably never end up reading this or anyone else's useful advice. For once get a damn reality check and realize there are more talented people than you on these forums, some of them half your age. Keep having fun making films, but if you want to get any better just listen for once.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:18pm

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Bryce007

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No forums are perfect, But Fxhome is easily one of the most consistently entertaining, interesting and helpful forums I've yet visited. So really, simply because one's films get panned doesn't constituted the entire forum "Losing it's way".

Besides, how interesting would it be if Everyone always said "OH. AMAZING FILM! It's PERFECT. Don't bother Improving at all"


(That doesn't help much now does it?)
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:28pm

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Fill

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Xcession wrote:

Online communities have a habit of regulating themselves organically. If someone is out of line, they get put in line. If someone is routinely pedantic and abrasive, they'll get their come-uppance, if someone is often arrogant and deluded, they'll get clued up.

It happens several times a year, but most users wouldn't remember those incidents, unless they themselves were the problem.
I'm a perfect example of this. I was definitely a 14 year old jackass when I joined this community. I was arrogant, stupid, and I had the worst attitude. I even remember posting a topic saying, "WHY THE HELL DO I KEEP GETTING -1S?!?!?!"

Anyway, Fxhome straightened me up. I started spelling better, becoming more intelligent and I gradually liked this community more and more.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:33pm

Post 29 of 96

ben3308

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Serpent wrote:

Watching people my age improve along with he help of older talented members such as Aculag, Bryce, CX3, ajjax, Sollthar, Arktic, er-no, Hybrid Halo, JohnCarter, Andreas, etc. etc. These members have been helpful and are honestly responsible for improving my skills.
Couldn't agree more, my friend. It's really cool to watch, say, my "Adams Bros. DVD Collection Trailer" (which got deleted from the cinema, mind you, haha) and compare it to Redemption or Splinter Cell (my version); then see the exact same parallel with you and Charlie to Vigilante or Evman with Splinter Cell (his version) to AI2.

Just watching the younger members (inclusive of myself) grow in skill and professionalism throughout the years is a paramount result of the help from this website. Hell, this is so full of resources, most work that you'd otherwise have to do yourself can be aided by others, just look at ashman's new trailer. It's got awesome voice over, awesome text, aweomse music, and clever shots and composition; and many of those elements were supplied by users at this very website.

Another great example is b4 himself. He himself said that many effects he's been unable to achieve before have been completed by none other than user 'shadu', a member of this website.

In short, if the evidence that this website is helpful is all around, how in the world can it possibly be denied?
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:45pm

Post 30 of 96

mercianfilm

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I have no doubt that the forum has lost its way- i've only been here a few months but it's never become boring or deflated- it's always an active and thriving community!
I'm sure i'm not theonly person on these forums who has learned a great deal from the people and the articles of this site and forum- before i found FXhome i hadn't a clue how compositing worked, i had no idea how on erth i could generate fire and such- but in the last couple of months i've learnt more about a subject than 11 years of school education could have taught me biggrin

Bad criticism (In small doses!) is a good thing, i reckon, name me one director who has never ever hada single bad critic- i bet you can't. Every single one of them from Rodriguez to Jackson have had to start from the dirt and build their way up to success through hardship and enthusiasm. They've all taken advice (i presume!) and critcism and dwelled on it for a while- thus improving their skills as a director- which is where we should all learn from!!
So please, don't give up directing and film making, and please, please, please! Listen and really let it sink in what people have said,after all the mighty FXhome team would only need an electric wheelchair and a funny joystick to be able to join Steven hawkins with their immense knowledge!!

Sam
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:51pm

Post 31 of 96

Penguin

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b4uask30male wrote:

You see two VERY different questions, I'd even go so far as to say by changing my question was FXhome worried by the outcome?
I used to be kind of puzzled by the fact that everyone seemed to hate you. And I don't think that anybody should be just automatically disregarded, but if you're really that paranoid, then I can understand why people don't like you.

About the cinema submissions, all the criticism of my Hobo movies was very polite, and while some people said they didn't like them, they all had some advice and never actually disrespected me.

Also, what's your problem with grading? confused
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:51pm

Post 32 of 96

Serpent

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Scribble07 wrote:

I have no doubt that the forum has lost its way-
Based on the content of the rest of your post, you might want to reword that. smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:58pm

Post 33 of 96

petet2

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There have certainly been times that I've been frustrated by some of the more inane comments and insults thrown at users' posts or movies. I remember a particularly vitriolic attack on the Ryan vs Dorkman creators which rumbled on for a while.

I think partly that is inevitable because of the nature of the world and partly because there are some young forum members who sometimes write in haste and expose their lack of maturity.

However I think that the FX Home community by and large polices itself and these less useful posters are usually put in their place quite swiftly by a cross section of the members.

I have received some excellent advice when I have had difficulties with movie making and hopefully given some help back where I can.

I think there are some long standing members who are less likely to receive criticism because of their perceived status but then there are others who have large numbers of negative scores against them. I've not been a member long enough to say whether or not these are deserved.

Overall I think this is still a valuable and rewarding community - if I didn't I would come.

And as for harshness of criticism I would say read some of the feedback posted on YouTube if you want to increase your vocabulary of expletives... wink There are far more harsh critics in other outlets for online movies than the few less helpful comments sometimes made here.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:24pm

Post 34 of 96

Sollthar

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WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.
Hmmm....

Comments about grading ARE helpful. Applying a solid grading is part of the filmmaking process. Like framing, editing, costuming, pacing, music etc. Applying the right colorscheme to a shot has been part of the cinematic process since film were shot in color. There are tons of books about the psychological impact of different color patterns and how to properly colorize a shot - so any comment that is aimed at your grading IS aimed at a filmmaking aspect and IS helpful.

Comments about spelling ARE helpful. Proper spelling is a bit like the ability to speak clearly and make a coherent sentence. In a written communication forum, like this one, the way you write is the way you're being perceived by others. Language is important.
If the spelling comments don't get too pedantic, eg are able to ignore one or two obvious typos we all do, this IS helpful.


So again, the question is

WHEN YOU POST A FILM, DO YOU FEEL YOUR FILM GETS MORE COMMENTS ABOUT GRADING OR YOUR SPELLING THAN HELPFULL COMMENTS.

I think simply don't quite understand your question. unsure

It's a bit like asking

WHEN YOU ORDER SOMETHING TO DRINK, DO YOU GET BEER AND TEA INSTEAD OF SOMETHING TO DRINK?

isn't it?
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:37pm

Post 35 of 96

CX3

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I agree. That question was kind of bogus and didnt make much sense.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:42pm

Post 36 of 96

petet2

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I have to say I think there is a bit of an obsession with grading on these forums at times.

Yes grading can add to the atmosphere of a movie and colour can be used to enhance mood but shot composition, editing, sound and having a good script are far more important.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:42pm

Post 37 of 96

Kid

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I think the answer to the question very much depends on your point of view. I think that most of the comments point out mistakes and ways you could have done something better.

In my opinion this IS helpful.

However some people are not looking to improve, they take these comments as a personal attack, totally ignore what has been said and complain about it rather than learn from the mistake. And unfortunately they continue making those same mistakes over and over rather than getting any better.

In my experience, if you are willing to learn and grow, then the people on the forum will give you their full support but if you expect a pat on the back just for pointing a camera at something then you arn't really going to get it.

petet2 wrote:

I have to say I think there is a bit of an obsession with grading on these forums at times.

Yes grading can add to the atmosphere of a movie and colour can be used to enhance mood but shot composition, editing, sound and having a good script are far more important.
What is the #1 question that people ask when they start? Answer: how can I get the film look?

So it isn't really surprising that grading and lighting come up as much as they do.

As to having a good script, the large majority of people here are interested in film making and special effects rather than writing. So having a good script really isn't the skill that most people are specialising in. After all if you try to do everything you will not end up doing anything well.

Last edited Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:48pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:47pm

Post 38 of 96

Pooky

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I think I'm going to go against the grain here, with everybody being so nice and all, and try a different approach. He certainly doesn't seem to want to listen.

Seriously though, how sad is it when a 17-year old finds a 30-something year old supremely immature? It's kind of like when you see those little children whining to their mothers something like "I DON'T WANNNAAAAA!!!" because she wants them to take a bath. But you see, if they would simply stop whining and LISTEN, they'd suddenly become a better person.

You'll probably reply that you're happy the way you are, and that your movies are excellent. That's good. But think about it: wouldn't it be better if you were happiER and if your movies actually WERE excellent? You know, so that someone other than you and your friends could see you as more than a hopeless egocentric.

I'm 17 by the way, and please, grow up.

Then again, these threads of yours are rather amusing, in a way.



Now, regarding the forums, I'll admit I'm not a fan of the 14-year old assault, but they seem to be having a blast, as I was at their age, so good for them. The forums aren't quite the same since newbies now far outnumber the experienced users (while back when I joined, I was one of the two or three meganoobs), so obviously the ratio of good vs bad comments isn't the same... still, the good ones are still there. I don't mind.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:05pm

Post 39 of 96

Sollthar

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petet2 wrote:

I have to say I think there is a bit of an obsession with grading on these forums at times.
I agree. It's mainly a couple of loud-voiced members that keep going on and on about grading to a pedantic detail though. wink



As for the forums:

If anything, I sometimes think the fxhome forums are TOO nice really. While obviously fxhome has the most helpful and nicest spirit out of all the larger forums I'm active in, which are quite a few, fxhome has a tendency to be overly positive sometimes. Probably because different to the other forums I visit, which are made of 98% filmstudents and professionals, this one is 98% made of enthusiasts. And obviously, they have much lower expectations and say "whoa dude, you're awesome!" much earlier.
Which has it's advantages, but also it's disadvantages - increasing the more experienced you become.


But I've said it before in another thread:

A comment on your movie is as helpful as you make it. If you chose to read into what other people write, maybe ignore some of the more personal preferences or psychological courses that lead them into writing whatever it is they write, check if what they write has some value and then carefully chose what to apply and apply it - then you can learn a lifetime from fxhome.
If you don't see that, then the problem is with you. Not with the forum.

Because honestly, at the end of the day, if you don't like it somewhere. Leave and never look back.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:13pm

Post 40 of 96

petet2

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Kid wrote:



petet2 wrote:

I have to say I think there is a bit of an obsession with grading on these forums at times.

Yes grading can add to the atmosphere of a movie and colour can be used to enhance mood but shot composition, editing, sound and having a good script are far more important.
What is the #1 question that people ask when they start? Answer: how can I get the film look?

So it isn't really surprising that grading and lighting come up as much as they do.

As to having a good script, the large majority of people here are interested in film making and special effects rather than writing. So having a good script really isn't the skill that most people are specialising in. After all if you try to do everything you will not end up doing anything well.
Yes I agree that a lot of people want to achieve a film look but my point was really aimed at those criticisms where posters say "your film was good but you could have graded it like this" etc. Grading won't make a bad film into a good one.

As to your second point you say that having a good script isn't the skill most people are specialising in. There are many skills involved in making a good film - sound recording, lighting, camera operating, prop design, acting and scripting. As a result most films are a collective effort and I don't see why the forum members can't offer constructive criticism on all of those aspects.

I think that having a good script is essential to film making unless you are making a special effects demo reel. I am not assuming that a poster necessarily wrote the script, likewise I would not assume they operated the camera, held the microphone and set the lights all by themself. However where someone is saying that they have made a narrative film, rather than just saying look at my new effects shot, then script is a vital element to be considered.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:16pm

Post 41 of 96

Simon K Jones

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petet2 wrote:

I have to say I think there is a bit of an obsession with grading on these forums at times.
I think that may be true, though I don't see it as a bad thing. I think the current obsession with grading could be due to it only relatively recently becoming available to amateur/low budget filmmakers as a viable technique. It's only really with the advent of decent digital tools over the last few years that extensive grading has become possible.

Shot composition, editing, sound, scriptwriting and other aspects have been around for decades (not always used well, of course!), but grading is still a relatively 'new' thing for the enthusiast/low-budget market. Given its ability to create the illusion of a much, much larger budget, I can see why people get excited about it.

Yes grading can add to the atmosphere of a movie and colour can be used to enhance mood but shot composition, editing, sound and having a good script are far more important.
Personally I'd say they're all equally important, and a lacking in one impacts on all the others. smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:14am

Post 42 of 96

petet2

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There are any number of tv dramas which are unashamedly shot on ungraded video but which do not suffer as a result. A poorly framed, poorly scripted film is still a bad film even if it is graded so it looks like the Matrix. I can't agree that grading is as important as a the other aspects mentioned.

Don't get me wrong - I love the way I can enhance the look of my video footage with the FX Home programs and am still amazed by what I can now do on my PC compared to what I could achieve with super 8mm movie film thirty years ago. I just think people need to avoid going for technique over substance.

Well exposed Kodachrome 40 at 24fps - now that was a film look... smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:16am

Post 43 of 96

Bryce007

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If anything, I think there's been a RIDICULOUS focus on Lightsabers. Grading, not so much.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:25am

Post 44 of 96

er-no

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I think we'd all be a little less brilliant at being creative and a little more sun-tanned without fxhome, and for that, I applaud.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:29am

Post 45 of 96

Hybrid-Halo

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True, True. I owe my brilliantly white complexion to fxhome.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:35am

Post 46 of 96

er-no

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Hybrid looks EXACTLY like his avatar. He has avoided the sun so long and thus has no eyes. He feels only his keyboard and in a simply cruel twist of ironic fate he wears glasses. Glasses with no eyes? Hell... and yet, he still loves fxhome.

What a guy.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:56am

Post 47 of 96

KA Productions

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Okay.
I am a noob. To this forum and to film making.
My most recent film got mixed comments. Some helpful, others insults. I got some emo bashing comments, but I saw it coming, so I just let it be. Well, then it turned into a heated discussion over emo, and my film was forgotten =/

I try to be as constructive as I can when I review other's films. I leave my input, and try to observe every aspect of the film, past just watching. But being a hopeless pursuer in film, I don't know if I am helping at all, or just pissing people off.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:08am

Post 48 of 96

petet2

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Ignore the emo comments.

And your opinion if it is constructive is always valid, noob or not.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:10am

Post 49 of 96

er-no

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KA Productions wrote:

Okay.
I am a noob. To this forum and to film making.
KA Productions - you might be what other forums might call you 'a noob', but personally I don't see anyone as a noob on a film forum, everyone has their say, their opinion and well. everyone is a potential audience member, so don't feel like your opinion won't count, because it defo will! As I'm sure you know wink
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:13am

Post 50 of 96

KA Productions

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Ya thanks.
You just have to wonder sometimes, cause i feel so mediocre to you guys. I leave this comment, and then like one of you leave one, analyzing so much more, with better suggestions, making me feel like, crap, these guys know what the hell they are talking about =]
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:44am

Post 51 of 96

BlueSmudge

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Well, I've been a fan of FXhome since my friend got AlamDV, and I got Chromanator. And since then the community has changed a bit.
The forums seem more professional now, and also seem to expect greater results. Obviously, people post movies to get feedback on what worked and what didn't, but often times movies seem to get ripped to shreds.

I think more time has to be taken before people post, to consider the experience level of the filmmaker, and under what circumstances the film was made under.
Does the person have the software, knowledge, experience, time or money to create what you expected?

What I really hate is when I see comments from people, saying things like, "This part was terrible, rewrite, and re-film that part with X equipment and X style."
Put yourself in the filmmakers shoes before you comment. How would it feel if someone told you to re-shoot your movie, or tell you how to spend your money, with out considering your actual budget etc.

Obvious, if the production value of the movie is higher, and the filmmaker shoes obvious skill in all the basic areas. Then start to comment on grading and effects, or equipment.

I'm not saying I totally agree with this topic, but I can also see where KA Productions is coming from. I remember reading his recent topic and was amazed at the disrespect within it.
Keep criticism constructive and don't forget to compliment what you liked.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:49am

Post 52 of 96

petet2

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that's how you learn mate - just keep coming back and leaving comments and in a few years you'll be one of the old timers!
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 3:43am

Post 53 of 96

Garrison

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I continue to enjoy my time here, and have found TONS of valuable feedback on other's submissions to the cinema, as well as my own.

Although I've never submitted a film and only short test shots and the like, I always try to implement the critiques because I ALWAYS want to learn.

If it was a harsh one, so be it. But on my end, I take it in stride, and constantly ask for input because I look up to quite a few people's wisdom and experience.

Personally, I think grading is important to enhance a look or feel to the film/shot to take it a step higher than without. On the other hand, I do try to be as helpful as I can to pass onto others what I have learned.

I also support the creators here by purchasing their DVDs (Nightcast, Project One, Recon just to name a few) and proudly store them on my shelf with a kind of... "I know these guys" kind of feeling which makes it all the more worth it to have them in my library.

When I found FXHome (and purchasing VisionLab) my attitude towards making and producing something has changed dramatically. I was more the casual video editing guy just starting out, but being here has moved me father than I ever thought.

So yes, I find this place helpful.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 5:33am

Post 54 of 96

Atom

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Good or bad, every time I've got up from the computer I've had a positive feeling and generally don't let heated things phase me past that. Sollthar, not including grading wink, has been a big contributor to the growing interest in technique and visual style for Ben and I over the years. To me, this only grows and shows the beneficial nature of FXHome. If you're too blinded by 'poor me' to see that, oh well.

Pooky wrote:

Seriously though, how sad is it when a 17-year old finds a 30-something year old supremely immature? It's kind of like when you see those little children whining to their mothers something like "I DON'T WANNNAAAAA!!!" because she wants them to take a bath. But you see, if they would simply stop whining and LISTEN, they'd suddenly become a better person.
Exactly what I said before my comment got deleted, because I added a little personal message in. smile

*winks at Sollthar

Grow up and let the 14-year-old n00bs figure things out and give backlash and listen and actually have fun doing it. Because, eventually, they'll grow into, well, us. There's no place in that mix of emotions and hit-and-miss for a 30-year-old whining. There's a difference between children and adults, like I said before. And this thread, if anything, screams the former.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 6:40am

Post 55 of 96

B3N

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Atom wrote
Because, eventually, they'll grow into, well, us.
Oh dear, I hope we don't have a army of atom brothers soon smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 6:48am

Post 56 of 96

ben3308

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"Adams", actually, if you don't mind the homonym.

And let us hope they're of the Ben persuasion, hmmm? wink
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 6:56am

Post 57 of 96

B3N

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Ben3308 wrote

And let us hope they're of the Ben persuasion, hmmm?
And talk like smartasses. Hehe wink

I think quite frankly that everyone agrees that the forums are great and helpful, however mixing with the helpful comments and not so helpful comments.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 8:14am

Post 58 of 96

Simon K Jones

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petet2 wrote:

There are any number of tv dramas which are unashamedly shot on ungraded video but which do not suffer as a result.
Very true. However, given that they're TV dramas, they will also have a high quality lighting crew and a budget for decent cameras and lighting, which reduces the need for grading.

For enthusiast and no budget productions, which often lack the time, money or knowledge to accomplish effective on-set lighting, or which use lower quality cameras, grading can effectively 'fill the gap'.

I could also argue that there are numerous British TV shows that suffer hugely from a lack of grading, being utterly devoid of atmosphere or style. But let's not get into that. smile

A poorly framed, poorly scripted film is still a bad film even if it is graded so it looks like the Matrix.
Absolutely. I agree completely. It's just that I see grading as an integral part of the cinematographic process, not as an optional extra. Lighting, framing and grading are all one and the same thing - all different, vital aspects of the same principle: getting the best possible images onto the screen.

As you say, the actual substance of the movie is usually far more important than the visual style. But it's always best to have both, surely? smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:13pm

Post 59 of 96

petet2

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Yes smile

(I was going to write something longer but it would be superfluous)
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 4:18pm

Post 60 of 96

jmax

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Rating: +1

Guilty as charged, I am a member of the "14-year-old-assault" of which some members have spoken of with evident resentment. I understand it. I'd feel the same resent if there were the equivalent event with people who I looked on as immature and bothersome, say, a "7-and-a-half-year-old-assault". I can imagine I'd have trouble accepting this and giving these kids a chance to prove my stigmas about people of their generation wrong. That said, I'm pretty impressed with the treatment of teens (and in cases people even younger) on fxhome.com. I'm not talked down to, and people accept my opinion and suggestions, and regard it just as highly (or nearly as highly) as they do the opinion and suggestions of people much more professional than my level of skill and experience. This respect and equality promotes similar respect and equality from others, which is more than I could say for "the real world". I'm (and hopefully other membes of my "invasion") am far more likely to respond respectfully and maturely when I'm confronted respectfully and maturely.
In that sense, people politely correcting my spelling errors and giving me constructive grading tips are giving me help that is appreciated and are acted upon responsibly. That said, of course it would bother me if people split hairs over grammar errors in an obnoxious manner or whine about subtle grading differences. But it would irritate me equally if they were to harp on small compositing errors or little problems with my sound, depth-of-feild, script, lighting, camerawork, editing, or 3D texturing. So it feels kind of ridiculous to just use "spelling and grading" as the two particular examples. Besides, film is a fairly precise art and little details (fundamental and obscure) often ammount to make the difference between a good film and a mediocre film. (Or a good film and a great film wink ) So unless someone is really making an arguement out of something infinitely small and insignificant, I am likely to take their criticism to heart, as if enough small things are changed, they can result in a big change. This rings true for especially for movies, so flame on my grading and spelling all you'd like if it floats your boat, because all it can do is make me better at what I love.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 4:37pm

Post 61 of 96

Mellifluous

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Great post, jmax, and it shows maturity whatever age.

This forum has been great, but it seems as if it descends into madness now and then. This is natural I know, and is comparable to other forums, but often seems preventable due to a bit more caution on people's parts. If you have an opinion, it is only that and shouldn't be repeated and it shouldn't be taken the wrong way if you don't see advice taken heed of. Some people see it as an affront to them if it isn't taken. In the real world I meet loads of people with different traits and you just learn to live with them. Everyone isn't the same as you. Not making any specific comments about anyone in the forum, but people out there have things like attention deficit disorder, dyslexia, autism and numerous other things and what's the odds of people having these on here? Especially considering these affect many creative people. It's not being nasty - it's being understanding.

Chill. If someone's abrasive, it's not worth pursuing things if it becomes rapidly obvious they have a perception of things that is unshiftable. It really isn't, because you yourself become abrasive and unattractive if you respond increasingly irritatedly.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 4:52pm

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JohnCarter

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Totally agreed with Mellifluous here.

A critique is merely in the end, a personal opinion. The receiver of the critique ALWAYS has the choice to take it or not. It doesn't mean that the critic is right or wrong. We are talking about an art form here, which is subjective by definition.

A critic should never be personal or taken personally: people are commenting on what they see through their own glasses and the person receiving it does it the same way but with less distance. If they act on it or not is irrelevant. The critic can choose to not watch anything again or pile on the comments. But it's not a moral obligation and no one forces them.

I personally stopped criticizing other people movies here because a lot of people don't take my words very well. It always, systematically, devolves in personal attacks and madness. A lot of people here are a lot more immature and criticism-resistant than what they perceive Ian to be. I've given Ian some of the harshest criticism I've ever made on this board - but I always balance my comments with what I found good - always done that. He did follow some of my advices, he did not follow others. Didn't change my life nor is. I think some people need to get over themselves.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 6:45pm

Post 63 of 96

nanafanboy

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Oh sweet bicycling messiah... is this thread still going?

Can't we all just get along? biggrin

I think this topic has run its course and it is time for people to concentrate their energies elsewhere

... perhaps by making movies or something.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 6:46pm

Post 64 of 96

Nutbar

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JohnCarter wrote:

Totally agreed with Mellifluous here.

A critique is merely in the end, a personal opinion. The receiver of the critique ALWAYS has the choice to take it or not. It doesn't mean that the critic is right or wrong. We are talking about an art form here, which is subjective by definition.

A critic should never be personal or taken personally: people are commenting on what they see through their own glasses and the person receiving it does it the same way but with less distance. If they act on it or not is irrelevant. The critic can choose to not watch anything again or pile on the comments. But it's not a moral obligation and no one forces them.

I personally stopped criticizing other people movies here because a lot of people don't take my words very well. It always, systematically, devolves in personal attacks and madness. A lot of people here are a lot more immature and criticism-resistant than what they perceive Ian to be. I've given Ian some of the harshest criticism I've ever made on this board - but I always balance my comments with what I found good - always done that. He did follow some of my advices, he did not follow others. Didn't change my life nor is. I think some people need to get over themselves.
For the most part I've seen people appreciative of critisism, because usually its made with good intent. But to insult people personally because you don't like what they say is just plain pathetic, especially when that someone is supposed to be an adult. That is a little bit different to simply ignoring someones advice.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 7:07pm

Post 65 of 96

petet2

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I think when offering advice or constructive criticism to a member who has posted some of their work it is important to reference your comments to something relevant.

If you judge any FX Homer's film against a George Lucas epic then (unless it's by Sollthar or Ashman wink ) it's going to look poor by comparison. Also no one would ever post their early efforts if that's what they were up against!

We need to look at offering criticism by looking at what they last did and seeing how they improved, complimenting where the work is better, advising where it could be better.

Enthusiasm can soon be dampened by thoughtless negative or pointless comments. I've seen a few movies or clips from younger FX Homers where comments have been made that "it's ok for something you made yourself for fun" or "it wasn't realistic having a policeman who was 14". When you and your mates are 14 your whole cast is going to be 14 and you're doing it for fun.

There is such a wealth of accessible talent within this community. It is a very valuable resource and I wish there had been something similar when I was younger. Long may it continue to succeed.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 7:25pm

Post 66 of 96

mercianfilm

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I completely agree with you Pete! I think everyone shoul try to weigh everything out better so as not to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for their hoby- after all that's what the majority of it is- most of us have regular jobs and do this because we enjoy it. Maybe if we criticised their negative points but tried to include some positives just to lighten the mood it may help. I understand this may cause some people to start going out false comments like 'That was excellent- perfect in everyway blah blah blah' . But to be criticised at such an early age i think it sriously threatens your future in the subject....that probably explains why i've been 'injured' for much of my P.E lessons in my old secondary school.

Sam
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 7:27pm

Post 67 of 96

Sollthar

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I agree with what you say petet2.

It's an interesting phenomenon with the internet: If you're having fun and all, that's great. By all means, grab a camera, film your 12 year old mate be the president of the US or a ninja and have a good time. It's what we all do.
But by the act of releasing the results of your "fun" to a public "cinema", accessible by all kinds of different people - the full spectrum of a possible audience so to speak - the rules change a bit.
You're basically saying "Hey, I would like you to watch my film!". And different people will follow that invite. And they'll have different expectations of what they're about to see.

Some might not even be willing to offer too much "help", after all, they're not teachers. You can't expect everyone of your audience to have to will for you to improve. Some will also simply want to tell their feelings, if they did or did not like it and why so.


But yes. This is a great community that has a lot to offer especially for newcomers and youngsters willing to learn and benefit from what is around.

Personally, I think this very thread shows what a mature and friendly community fxhome is.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 7:29pm

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nanafanboy

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This thread has yielded some wonderful posts I must say... but at the same time there has been some ugliness rearing it's head in here.

I would say that the power of the good has outweighed the bad, though.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 9:23pm

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petet2

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petet2 wrote:


If you judge any FX Homer's film against a George Lucas epic then (unless it's by Sollthar or Ashman wink ) it's going to look poor by comparison.

Sollthar wrote:


I agree with what you say petet2.
Couldn't resist that little composite smile
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 9:25pm

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Sollthar

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lol. That wasn't what I agreed on though. Haha. Nice. Erm... biggrin
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 9:32pm

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petet2

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I know, I was just messing and couldn't resist it.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:05pm

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davlin

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nanafanboy says it all for me.......


This thread has yielded some wonderful posts I must say... but at the same time there has been some ugliness rearing it's head in here.

I would say that the power of the good has outweighed the bad, though.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:12pm

Post 73 of 96

Atom

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A-friggin-men.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:20pm

Post 74 of 96

JackPot

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Why cant fxhome be more like this

http://www.derrickcomedy.com/girls.htm (warning - swearing)

No pettyness
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:27pm

Post 75 of 96

Atom

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I CAN'T KILL YOU! You're my daughter. Classic hilarity.

Also, I thought I'd add: I love the mods, too. Nobody mentioned that part yet, or I didn't read it yet. The mods are a good mix of judgment, professionalism in filmmaking and other things, and just good ol' fun. (Well, except Hybrid and his stark-white complexion. But that's another story smile) And while some feel bias from them at times, myself included more than anyone-

*shakes fist violently at the mighty schwar wink

-they ultimately as a whole represent a good nature of decision-making, and if one wrongs someone 5 others seem to fix it or give reason through PM, something I doubt most other forums would do.

Last edited Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:29pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:28pm

Post 76 of 96

Movie

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Extremely helpful, any time I have asked a question, it has been answered.
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 6:20pm

Post 77 of 96

BringPopcorn

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I don't think people get enough constructive criticism on their work. I think either people are afraid of giving their real opinion or they can't tell the good from the very bad.
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 8:06pm

Post 78 of 96

Nutbar

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Movie wrote:

Extremely helpful, any time I have asked a question, it has been answered.
your sig scares me.
Posted: Sun, 24th Jun 2007, 8:24pm

Post 79 of 96

Movie

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Nutbar wrote:

Movie wrote:

Extremely helpful, any time I have asked a question, it has been answered.
your sig scares me.
That's why I got it! biggrin biggrin
Posted: Mon, 25th Jun 2007, 12:47pm

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pdrg

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although 1.4Megs is a bit cruel for those of us who sometimes log using a PDA :-$ Each page of 15 posts comes to 160k roughly (still painful over GPRS) but then another meg and a half - I don't stand a chance wink
Posted: Mon, 25th Jun 2007, 4:43pm

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Tim L

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pdrg wrote:

although 1.4Megs is a bit cruel for those of us who sometimes log using a PDA :-$ Each page of 15 posts comes to 160k roughly (still painful over GPRS) but then another meg and a half - I don't stand a chance wink
PDRG: Go to User Preferences > Forum Options... You can un-tick the "Show Signatures" box. Get rid of avatars too, if you want. That will speed your PDA downloads, but then you'd lose those items when logging in from your desktop pc too...

Tim L
Posted: Mon, 25th Jun 2007, 5:13pm

Post 82 of 96

pdrg

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Tim L wrote:


PDRG: Go to User Preferences > Forum Options... You can un-tick the "Show Signatures" box. Get rid of avatars too, if you want. That will speed your PDA downloads, but then you'd lose those items when logging in from your desktop pc too...
Damn good point - and oh so happy to lose some of the self-promotion from my desktop experience too biggrin Ta, Tim
Posted: Mon, 25th Jun 2007, 5:38pm

Post 83 of 96

Plainly

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I haven't submitted any movies yet, but when I comment on someone's movie, I try to give constructive critisizm. And I think that, overall, people do the same, which is good (and, being better than me at making movies, their constructive critisizm is usually a lot better. wink)

RebornProductions wrote:

Its still the most friendly and helpful forum I've been. With the exception of a few people.
I certainly hope you not talking about me... wink
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 3:07pm

Post 84 of 96

neoglitz

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Tarn wrote:


Either way, my edited poll question: 'Are the FXhome.com forums still friendly and helpful?' seems to cover almost exactly the same ground.

My rephrasing of the question to something simpler and to-the-point was so that people could understand the core concepts of what was being discussed, without having to go and find a multi-page topic to get some context.

The rephrasing of the question is not the same. I did not see the original posted question that was edited, so I have to look at what b4 submitted later in the post.

I understand your point for clarity Tarn, but the question you posted is structured and slanted toward a positive response. It is not a neutral question.

Just wanted to join in the fun! twisted
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 3:23pm

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b4uask30male

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Thanks for changing the poll again tarn to something closer to what I posted, I hope this thread hasn't caused any problems and if anything has helped the forum members be more understanding when posting about peoples films.

Thanks
Ian
Posted: Tue, 26th Jun 2007, 3:26pm

Post 86 of 96

Atom

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Positivity counters negativity.


I frankly don't see how this could've really helped anything a terrible amount, either, Ian. If anything, it caused unnecessary chaos. Never relenting on a point, are you? smile
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 1:03am

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miker

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Your "status" in an online community is one of the biggest factors as to how much help/recognition you will receive when you post a topic. Your reputation has a lot to do with it as well. Or your... lack of reputation for some of the new "no namer" members our there, or people that somewhat rarely post (like myself). I'm not saying that if you're new and you post a question or a video that you wont get any response.. because you probably will. Just not AS MUCH as another "well known" member might. Depending on their reputation. It's sad..true..and everyone knows it. Just like in the real world. Yeah, I'm sure this doesn't apply to ALL members, but a large majority.

For example:

When you see a "New KICKASS video" by sollthar thread, EVERYONE's gonna be all over that like ketchup on a hotdog. razz

When you see a "Check out my new vid!" by Fxhomer1948728945646472354, I think there will be a drastic difference between # of views/responses.

Now, it's time for you to say "WELL DUH!?".

But some members don't understand this.. and tend to feel left out.

For me, the FXhome forums have been one of the largest factors in continuing to persue filmmaking. I've enjoyed the time I've spent here.. reading and posting, and getting valuable feedback from other members. It's really the only forum I've been a part of..so I can't really tell you how it compairs to others.. but I do enjoy it. I've learned to accept the fact that Me (as well as many others) don't get nearly as acknowledged as other "elite" members, but I don't blame anyone. It's a personal decision. You wanna be a "big dog", you gotta play like a "big dog". It used to bother me.. but I've learned to get over it.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 1:19am

Post 88 of 96

Atom

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miker wrote:

When you see a "New KICKASS video" by sollthar thread, EVERYONE's gonna be all over that like ketchup on a hotdog. razz

When you see a "Check out my new vid!" by Fxhomer1948728945646472354, I think there will be a drastic difference between # of views/responses.

Now, it's time for you to say "WELL DUH!?".

But some members don't understand this.. and tend to feel left out.

For me, the FXhome forums have been one of the largest factors in continuing to persue filmmaking. I've enjoyed the time I've spent here.. reading and posting, and getting valuable feedback from other members. It's really the only forum I've been a part of..so I can't really tell you how it compairs to others.. but I do enjoy it. I've learned to accept the fact that Me (as well as many others) don't get nearly as acknowledged as other "elite" members, but I don't blame anyone. It's a personal decision. You wanna be a "big dog", you gotta play like a "big dog". It used to bother me.. but I've learned to get over it.
While this is true, it also means (generally) that the more well, known, well-watched video is more susceptible to harsher criticism because, as you said, it's from a "big dog". So, in a way, it's pro/con.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 2:27am

Post 89 of 96

miker

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Atom wrote:


While this is true, it also means (generally) that the more well, known, well-watched video is more susceptible to harsher criticism because, as you said, it's from a "big dog". So, in a way, it's pro/con.
I'd like to think people would critique all movies with the same respect.. regardless of who posted it.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 8:31am

Post 90 of 96

Sollthar

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I don't think it's the respect atom is referring to, but the rate of critisism. And he's right on that.

If you managed to make some videos that have been well received, people come to expect high quality work from you and therefore your next film will be rated accordingly.

I've had comments on NightCast like "the film looks like shot on 35mm, but that is to be expected from you" which I thought was an interesting remark. Obviously, being me seemed to make a lot of the work I put into actually make it look as good as I can something "normal" and "natural", instead of the "bonus" it may have been if I wasn't me. smile

It's entirely normal though that this happens.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 12:41pm

Post 91 of 96

Serpent

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I just like to add this, not as a retort to anything that's just been said, but just as an observation:

The "big dogs" who get a lot of comments generally deserve it. They post here at least once a day, contribute, and work hard at making movies and bringing them to the net. Usually "Fxhomer1948728945646472354" signed up a few days ago and is posting something he and his buddies put up on Youtube for fun. Nothing wrong with that, but not many are going to watch that. I watch beginners' films that have been posting a lot because I like to see where they are and I believe they can and will improve at a rate of some members here including Atom Bros., Evman, and even older more proffesional users like Sollthar. I've left out a lot, but you know what I'm getting at. Which brings me back again to people who actively participate generally improve drastically.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 1:02pm

Post 92 of 96

shadu

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This forum did change over time. I never got any fxhome product because at the time i invested in more complexe program who can do more with less money (in the time of alamdv)... Now if i did have to make the same choise it maybe be different with the news product of fxhome. This stop me to post in the movie section and play with force point (don't have any)

But even if i didn't get any fxhome product i always found some good advice in the past and my movie got some good critic. By good i mean usefull critic not "wow! you are so good". Now, as i can't post my movie in the "movie" section i am lucky if i have few comment. And some time these comment have the same topic.. "you need to do grading" without any other comment of the it. Just like "you didn't use grading so i don't watch it. Do your lesson and come back".

Except some person, this forum is about "amator film making" no?

Shadu
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 1:45pm

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davlin

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Shadu makes a good point in his post about "amateur film makers"
being the main object of the the forum.
The problem, as I see it ,is it's not the fault of the forum itself but a
massive sea-change in peoples attitudes towards "home filmaking".
I've been a very keen "hobbyist" for 45 years and NEVER in that time did I want to go pro. I realised that in the real world you have as much chance of making a good living out of "pro"work as rocking horse crap staining the carpet.
If you look at a lot of the members we have most of them look at being funded and going pro is the only way to go and hobbyists
are silly old farts....now that may well be a good description for me..
..but there are other hobbyists who have the "heart and soul" to make beautiful little movies without the constraints of funders and general business rubbish that goes with money.
I was in business for nearly 30years so I know the problems that
will arise when messin about with fairly large sums of money and that's only if you can get it........another story that.
I just wish that peeps would focus on making their little masterpieces and stop worrying about getting into the "BIG" time
because my friends the odds are against you.......unless you marry
into the mob..........lol
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 1:51pm

Post 94 of 96

Simon K Jones

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I agree that there are more and more people looking to make filmmaking their chosen career, but I disagree that they dismiss the enthusiasts.

It's more about the mindset of focusing on quality work, rather than specifically getting funding, I'd say. It's just that it's only in relatively recent years that the technology has been cheap enough for hobbyists/enthuasiasts to even comtemplate creating material of a technically high quality.

An interesting topic, definitely.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 5:49pm

Post 95 of 96

neoglitz

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Tarn wrote:

It's just that it's only in relatively recent years that the technology has been cheap enough for hobbyists/enthuasiasts to even comtemplate creating material of a technically high quality.
BINGO! The same thing happened 12 to 15 years ago when the "wanna be" musician could final record a master quality recording at home. It was a recording industry renaissance.

It is the technology (like the wonderful software here) that is allowing people of all ages to dream and create what is in their head, regardless of how tiny their brains may be (sollthar wink ) Just a joke people, no one should be offended. And like Tarn stated, I don't think the enthusiast is being dismissed as a result.

Regardless of the desires of the person, be it "Hollywood Wanna Be" or "Family Movie Guy," the community here is typically helpful in assisting people to get better with the craft.
Posted: Wed, 27th Jun 2007, 8:07pm

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miker

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Serpent wrote:

Usually "Fxhomer1948728945646472354" signed up a few days ago and is posting something he and his buddies put up on Youtube for fun. Nothing wrong with that, but not many are going to watch that. I watch beginners' films that have been posting a lot because I like to see where they are and I believe they can and will improve at a rate of some members here including Atom Bros., Evman, and even older more proffesional users like Sollthar.
Just because someone is a "beginner".. or new the Fxhome website, doesn't mean they are a "beginner" status filmmaker.