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Best Non-linear editor

Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:24pm

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The Duelist

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Hey guys, my birthday's coming up, and I thought it was time for a filmmaking overhaul. I'm tired of iMovie, and so I thought I'd ask the experts: what is the best non-linear editor for use with the Fxhome products? I'd especially like one that gives you a lot of control over your original film, like MANUAL letterboxing, interlacing, etc. So dígame, and tell me what you think and why. Also, it should be under USD $125. Thanks!
-The Duelist
PS. Don't give a suggestion unless you personally own the product! Too many people have done that to me!!!
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 7:31pm

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Serpent

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There isn't much between iMovie and FCE on a Mac. That's what everyone is going to tell you. It works fine with FXH products, like any NLE that can handle standard QT files. I'd save up for FCE or find a used copy on eBay (shop carefully). It's the next step up and it will prep you for any FCP work you do in the future.

I'm a FCP user. FCE is a simpler easier-to-use version of FCP basically. Same intuitive interface and workflow.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 8:14pm

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SketchWork

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My company uses an Avid Xpress Pro and Media Composer workflow and I find it to fit every need we have.

It is kinda pricey, but it is what we use and I wouldn't go back and use anything else nowdays.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:12pm

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pdrg

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I'm a huge Avid fan - pretty much anyone who makes the effort to really learn Avid deeply (any version, they just add more features as you spend more wonga) can never go back to other NLE's. Sadly, Avid Xpress DV is no longer sold, so unless you can get a copy on ebay, your entry cost is about a grand for Avid Xpress Pro - if you can afford it (plus the time and/or crash course to get to know and love it), give it a go smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 9:20pm

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TimmyD

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Get Final Cut Express with an educational discount. It's simply the best amateur/low-budget NLE for Mac... Sollthar even made Nightcast with it.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:29pm

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Axeman

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I used Avid Xpress DV a lot, in fact I edited an entire feature-length in avid, among other things. It is very nice, and if you plan on a career in film, it is a good stepping stone to the avid systems most of the pros use.

But I still would recommend Final Cut, which is what I use now. Its better.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:36pm

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The Duelist

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yeah, final cut looks good, but in case that's not an option, is there anything you'd recommend under $125
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 10:45pm

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Arktic

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I've been using AVID Express Pro in a professional capacity for a while now, both inside and outside of the BBC - it's the fabled 'industry standard', so it makes sense to learn it.

However, that said, I hate it - to me, it's a clunky and counter-intuative system that relies too heavily upon 3-point editing. The colour correction is superb, as is the multi-camera workflow (I was lucky enough recently to see the edit of a high-profile BBC 1 sketch show in progress, and I've never seen anyone cut multi-camera scenes as fast!). However, I feel that though it does have it's plus points, to me, the whole system of having to switch between modes, and various other quirks that the program has... it just doesn't feel user-friendly.

At home, I much prefer to edit on a Premiere-based NLE; maybe it's because I learned to edit on Premiere, maybe it just feels less like work. But either way, I prefer Premiere.

Essentially, I'd reccomend that you try different edit systems for yourself, before you decide to invest in a purchase.

Most NLEs are available as demo versions, so you can try them usually for up to a month before you decide what works for you. Remember, the skill of an editor is not being able to use particular software, but being able to use the software they have available to them to best tell the story. A good editor is a good editor, wether they've learned FCP or AVID.

So really, there's no "best" software - you should be able to make the most of the tools that you feel comfortable working with. Each has their plus points and minus points, but I really believe that the best option is for you to try them all out yourself and to decide that way.

Just imho smile

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 11:20pm

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Pooky

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I've had nothing but bad experiences with Premiere Pro myself. I'm using v2.0 right now, and previewing clips is a nightmare. The audio often cuts off randomly and you gotta render all the video for it to be smooth... and I've got a pretty decent computer. The menus and options are totally counter-intuitive, for me, so really, I'm looking for something better right now.
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 11:26pm

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er-no

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Progressively, the film and television industry is changing, and the standard is soon to become Final Cut Pro (give it another couple of years). This is for a number of reasons, but hey, thats good news for us FCP people (having just completed a 27,000 investigation into FCP and its competitors I'd rather not paste it all on here).. but yeah, changing times!

I'd go Final Cut Express to learn your way around, definetely smile
Posted: Wed, 20th Jun 2007, 11:32pm

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Kid

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Liquid Edition.

It was designed by video editors rather than programmers and has gone through quite a history. First FAST and Sony Editstation, then Pinnacle and now Avid.

Avid seem to be liking it so hopefully it may well replace their current interfaces seeing as its far more intuitive.

Also I would advise against buying software on ebay. It is just as illegal as pirating the software so you will be completely wasting your money.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:00am

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Pooky

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Something I've never understood about Final Cut Pro is why they keep that HORRIBLY ugly look. If you look at all the other Final Cut Studio apps, they're sleek, shiny and sexy. But Final Cut has had the same awful look for ages.

Am I missing something here?
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:04am

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er-no

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Pooky wrote:

Something I've never understood about Final Cut Pro is why they keep that HORRIBLY ugly look. If you look at all the other Final Cut Studio apps, they're sleek, shiny and sexy. But Final Cut has had the same awful look for ages.

Am I missing something here?
What are you talking about Pook? The look and design of Final Cut Pro has been re-dged and changed for each edition since Final Cut Pro 2. If you using Cinema Tools and Final Cut Pro Studio (1 or 2) I'd say you couldn't really ask for a better more open-ended design (although the new After Effects interface is pretty lovely... even though I don't like the program).

Yeah, it's always changed, perhaps thats just your crazy mind Pooky wink But Final Cut Pro is far from 'awful' looking.. guess it depends what your editing biggrin cool
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:05am

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Pooky

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More specifically, look at the video preview window part of the UI.

I believe this is an older version, but this part.

Last edited Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:07am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:06am

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Serpent

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Kid wrote:

Also I would advise against buying software on ebay. It is just as illegal as pirating the software so you will be completely wasting your money.
There are a number of reasons why that is false. Of course people sell pirated stuff on ebay. However there are stores on ebay that sell new software. Many softwares also allow license transfer as well, so used software can be legal. You just have to know what you're doing.

Also, is Liquid Edition available for Mac?
____

Another option, as Timmy said, is educational discounts. FCE is a great option. It seems as though you are turning it down. But for Mac you aren't going to find anything worthy of your money in that price range unless you get FCE at a discount. Find a way to get FCE at educational pricing or save your pennies. It's worth it.
____

Pooky: I know what you mean, but I think it would be hard to design FCP to look as sleek as motion with the system of several windows FCP has. It's design is extremely practical. There is just so much in the program that its "ugliness" is somewhat inevitable. I don't mind it that much. But Motion seems to have a much simpler interface making its sexiness possible.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:07am

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er-no

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Pooky wrote:

More specifically, look at the video preview window part of the UI.
It does exactly what it needs to do, and very efficiently? In nearly all cases I can think of the UI and design of FCP has only gotten progressively more 'lush' since 2002
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:08am

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Hybrid-Halo

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My favourite NLE is Adobe Premiere simply because it's what I've grown to know, though the majority of people will tell you that Final Cut Pro is the best NLE all-round.

I can't really disagree, on some levels it's a matter of personal taste and what you're comfortable using though on other levels... FCP is definitely the better program of the two.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:14am

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Bryce007

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FCP HD IS extrememly powerful and well integrated...


But that doesn't really means it's the "Best" overall. After all, if someone doesn't like the interface and tool options, then clearly it's not the "Best" NLE for them.


Honestly, I've tried All Premiere versions since 7, Avid Xpress Hd, Pinnacle liquid edition, Ulead mediastudio pro, Vegas (versions 3-7) and FCP, and find that I'm most productive with Vegas 7 by far.

After all, isn't an NLE specially designed to EDIT?
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 12:22am

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er-no

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Bryce007 wrote:

FCP HD IS extrememly powerful and well integrated...


But that doesn't really means it's the "Best" overall. After all, if someone doesn't like the interface and tool options, then clearly it's not the "Best" NLE for them.


Honestly, I've tried All Premiere versions since 7, Avid Xpress Hd, Pinnacle liquid edition, Ulead mediastudio pro, Vegas (versions 3-7) and FCP, and find that I'm most productive with Vegas 7 by far.

After all, isn't an NLE specially designed to EDIT?

You think?
wink
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 1:24am

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TimmyD

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Pooky, I imagine the "ugly" UI is easier on the eyes than bright white windows. All of Apple's Pro apps are dark like that, seeing as people who use them often spend a great deal of time staring at the screen, and don't need to be half blind upon looking away.

Besides from that, it's extremely efficient and practical.
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 2:44am

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Bryce007

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Joby=Cheeky bastard razz


I wuz Jus beeing concise LOLERZ!
Posted: Thu, 21st Jun 2007, 11:17pm

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Kid

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Serpent wrote:

Kid wrote:

Also I would advise against buying software on ebay. It is just as illegal as pirating the software so you will be completely wasting your money.
There are a number of reasons why that is false. Of course people sell pirated stuff on ebay. However there are stores on ebay that sell new software. Many softwares also allow license transfer as well, so used software can be legal. You just have to know what you're doing.
The vast majority of software on ebay is pirated or 2nd hand. Practically no software allows a licence transfer and this includes all of the editing apps that I know of. (feel free to run off and look your license up) If you are going to obtain it illegally then paying to do so is just stupid. (plus it funds terrorism don't you know? razz)

You may find stores selling legitimate copies but these will generally not be much cheaper than normal stores since they have to pay the manufacturer the same amount for them.

Also, is Liquid Edition available for Mac?
Only under bootcamp
Posted: Fri, 22nd Jun 2007, 2:52am

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Pooky

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TimmyD wrote:

Pooky, I imagine the "ugly" UI is easier on the eyes than bright white windows. All of Apple's Pro apps are dark like that, seeing as people who use them often spend a great deal of time staring at the screen, and don't need to be half blind upon looking away.

Besides from that, it's extremely efficient and practical.
No no you don't get it. I'm not complaning about the look of Final Cut Studio, just Final Cut Pro. I think all the FCS2 apps look gorgeous, with one exception. Look, compare this to this. See what I mean?
Posted: Fri, 22nd Jun 2007, 6:23am

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BlueSmudge

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Pooky, why do you keep bringing this up? Obviously FCP doesn't look quite as good as the other apps, but I also find it to be the most intuitive of the suite. I kinda like the ugliness. It shows the app means business. I've never liked the way all the applications and operating systems are becoming all shiny. The graphics of the application don't matter, especially if a more complicated interface slows down responsiveness.

Back on topic. GET FINAL CUT EXPRESS. There is no program between iMovie and FCE worth your money, and FCE will prepare you for industry standards. From experience, I can say that once you learn one pro NLE, you can transition pretty fast. I'm a longtime FCP user, but was able to transition to Premier Pro for one project that required it (Didn't really care for it).
Posted: Fri, 22nd Jun 2007, 3:45pm

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Xel

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Pooky wrote:

No no you don't get it. I'm not complaning about the look of Final Cut Studio, just Final Cut Pro. I think all the FCS2 apps look gorgeous, with one exception. Look, compare this to this. See what I mean?
I do somewhat agree. but just as an FYI, Soundtrack can look all flashy because you're working on sound and the visuals don't affect your experience. In Final Cut, you can be doing anything from editing to color correction, and for that, you want an extremely neutral-grey background. I'd say they are probably not turning everything flashy to avoid changing the color balance on the screen much.