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How do I change particle speed? [ANSWER]

Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 6:21pm

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Jocka

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Gold Member

hi
after i rendered a movie, some effects like the flametrhower and smoke were moving too fast, i mean really too fast....
so..how do i change that?
Is it in the speed randomizer, or when you click the right mouse button on the effect and click "change speed"?
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 6:32pm

Post 2 of 19

Plainly

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On top of "Speed randomizer", there is a rectangular box with a white line crossing it. Double-click on that box, and a window will appear. Just lower the line (You do that by clicking on the

|¯|
.V

thing, then lowering the number that appears in the top-right of the window.

I hope this helps. smile

PS-

Jocka wrote:

...or when you click the right mouse button on the effect and click "change speed"?
I'll go try that right now to see if it works. smile

EDIT: No, changing the speed doesn't do anything, exept make your effect last longer.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 7:28pm

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Movie

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You can also change the speed in wmm and iMovie
Posted: Sat, 23rd Jun 2007, 11:12pm

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Jocka

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Gold Member

ok thanks wink
Posted: Thu, 28th Jun 2007, 3:18am

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BubbaR

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It has something to do with particle max and particle rate. Experiment around.
Posted: Thu, 28th Jun 2007, 6:40am

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Axeman

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SuperUser

Particle Max only controls the maximum number of particles that can exist at any given frame. Particle rate controls how many new particles are generated each frame.

The Particle Speed control, as mentioned by PlainlyCanadian, is where the speed is adjusted. The speed control consists of a line graph representing the lifetime of the particle, and control points can be added to it to make the speed change over time, or the entire line can be adjusted to increase/decrease the speed. The one other control that affects speed is Gravity. The gravity control pulls the particles in the specified direction, and therefore increases their speed. A high gravity setting can speed them up dramatically.
Posted: Wed, 18th Jul 2007, 1:52pm

Post 7 of 19

Neophyte

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I am having the same issue and it seems that no matter what I set the partical speed to, it only effects the height that my "volcanic cloud", in this case, goes in the frame. If I lower the speed, the pilar of smoke barely comes out of the cone. If I increase the speed, the smoke cloud shoots completely off frame; neither of which are actually effecting the speed of the animation for the cloud (ie: an energetic plasmic blast Vs. a slow bilow, or the beginning and the end of an eruption respectively).

I've based the effect on the "Realistic Smoke Explosion" Preset and just altered it from there, but perhaps that itself is the problem. I wi try to create something from scratch to see id that resolves the issue, but for me, using the speed tool only increased/decreased the height at which the particals reached in the frame.

Granted I could slow velocity of the scens down with the video software, but there is movement of not only actors, but the environment as well as real-time fires that would be effected by the slowing down of the entire scene rather than just the effect. Any help would be greatly appreciated as it seems most threads I have searched through have had a different issue with speed than it seems I am currently dealing with this time.
Posted: Wed, 18th Jul 2007, 2:33pm

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Axeman

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SuperUser

Check the gravity controls to see if they are speeding up the particles. Also, if you can't figure it out and are in a hurry, you could render the effect out, then import that video clip, slow it down, and composite it in that way.
Posted: Wed, 18th Jul 2007, 11:19pm

Post 9 of 19

Neophyte

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I've tried everything I can think of and everything that has been suggested thus far minus rendering the effect on its own and then placing it on a timeline in the video editing software as I don't see how the background will be retained as Alpha in the avi format. Anyway, it is not the Gravity, it is not the duration, it is not the speed controller, it is not the number of textures the preset is going through... I am at a completely loss.

The exact issue is even if I create a partical effect from scratch, the rate at which the particals are released seems to be constant and annoying. It appears that the speed controller offers control of the particals velocity rather than release rate from the origin. I'm not sure if I can express what I mean any better than hosting a video of what I mean. I will check back here in the morning to see if there can be anymore light shed on the subject before I host capture/host the video of what I mean.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 12:27am

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Axeman

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SuperUser

If you are trying to control the amount of particles that are emitted, use the Particle Rate control. The numbers on this control are the number of new particles released each frame.

Also, increasing the speed randomizer will provide a much more random feel to the look of the particles as they are emitted. Typically, increasing the size randomizer helps a bit as well.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 8:03am

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Neophyte

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Again, I will give this a shot and report back because I can not remember if I played with those (think I did, but if not who knows... and should this not work, when I go back to the studio I'll screencapture some of what I am talking about).
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 10:34am

Post 12 of 19

Neophyte

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Here is a 5mb video showing exactly what I mean. I tried the partical lifetime/size/max/etc, mainly those affected the density only. Hopefully you are smarter than I in figuring this thing out because I'm not only befuddled, but frustraited as hell that I can't seem to grasp what needs to be done even after watch several tutorials time and time again as well as reading and re-reading the manual.

http://www.tsnhosting.net/minivantuner/Othershiz/FFXI/Videos/Other/Problem.wmv

And I'm not sure why the topic has [ANSWER] by it because this issue still has not been resolved in my opinion.

Last edited Fri, 20th Jul 2007, 11:19am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 20th Jul 2007, 11:13am

Post 13 of 19

Neophyte

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I apologize for the constant posting, but I promise it is not intentional that all of these are spread out. Editing my previous post will not make it apparent that something else has been discovered so, there is my reasoning for "bumping" and I apologize.

So I have isolated the exact issue with what is happening. I loaded a blank particle effect on a black timeline, hit "ram", and went from there. (if you would like to do the same, I'll be listing it step by step to describe what I am talking about).

1) After loading the partical effect to our timeline with stock settings, set an in/out on the beginning and ending of the effect, loaded it to ram, and hit play we can see a nice little cone of placeholders dancing in the black abyss.

2) The goal of this demonstration is to show that there is not a particle release rate control, or at least one that I may not have been able to find. So should someone be aware of an attribute that controls the "Emitter Particle Release Rate" relative to the max amount of particles on screen, the frequency of their release, and their lifetime, please tell me.

3) So lets move on to the speed setting. As discussed before, this option affects the velocity of the particals only, not the speed of the effect. This can be seen by comparing our stock particle effect to the one with an adjusted speed setting of 1.000 and then another with a speed setting of 20.000. The speed at which the particles leave the emitter is changed allowing them to either hover just over the emitter until death or fire blazingly across the frame respectively.

4) With our speed setting clearly not the tool attribute we are looking for, set it back to the stock 10.000 and lets move on to Gravity, Particle: Max, Particle: Rate, and finally Particle: Lifetime.

- Gravity
The gravity controls are brilliant tools that allow us to maniuplate the direction of particle that have left the emitter and how quickly they are forced to move in said direction only. So while adjusting these effect the direction of the free-floating particles and the rate at which they change direction, they do not influence the release rate of the emitter.

- Particle: Max
This control offers the option to limit how many particles are on screen at any given time. By nature, this has no affect on the release rate of particles; only the amount allowed on screen before shutting the emitter down temporarily so that the previously release particles can clear the screen before new particles are born. This can be viewed by setting the Particle: Max option to 100 from the stock 500 and then compare the two.

- Particle: Rate
This wonderful tool allows us the ability to directly effect the density of the particle effect. This can be seen by reducing the particle rate to 3 from the stock 10. However this, as previoulsy mentioned, only effects density; not our current interest.

- Particle: Lifetime
This is the culmination of the Particle: Max and Particle: Rate sliders in that this is the slider that gives the final decision in how long a particle will remain rendered before dying. This can bee seen by adjusting the stock setting of 20 to 51 and comparing. The effect is much larger over the course of the shot as it has more time to mature and grow over time; however, this is not the effect we are looking for as even though the particles have been on screen longer, they are still moving at the same velocity.

So in conclusion, the issue seems to be with a possible limitation in the software. Mind you this is not to bash or down talk the work put into the develop of this amazing and beautiful program. It is simply a spotlight on an issue that I am sure was discussed during the development process and by in doing so, a solution must have been formed otherwise every particle effect used by FXHome users would all have an identical particle release rate. The only solution I can see is to mask the effect and render it by itself, place it in a timeline of a linear editing program, and slowing the velocity of the rendered effect to satisfy the needs of the shot. The only down side to this, picky as it may be, is that the transparent sections of the effect will still be moving at the velocity of the original shot, so by slowing the effect down the "background" of the effect is slowed down as well. This can create an undesirable imbalance in the two clips (base clip and the rendered effect clip).

I'm sure this is not something that has been overlooked, so with the issue being completely identified and hopefully easier to anaylze, we as a community or FxHome as developers can alleviate this issue by pointing out something I have missed or perhaps adding a "Particle: Release Rate" option under the Particle Creation options.

Thank you for bearing with my ignorance in this issue... but hopefully one could pull that out simply by the definition of my name lol. Again, Thank you.
Posted: Fri, 20th Jul 2007, 7:00pm

Post 14 of 19

Axeman

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SuperUser

I'm thoroughly confused by your differentiation between the speed of the effect and the velocity of the particles.

Neophyte wrote:

2) The goal of this demonstration is to show that there is not a particle release rate control, or at least one that I may not have been able to find. So should someone be aware of an attribute that controls the "Emitter Particle Release Rate" relative to the max amount of particles on screen, the frequency of their release, and their lifetime, please tell me.
Particle : Rate controls the rate of the particles released. The default rate of 10 means that 10 new particles are released each frame. With the default Particle : Lifetime of 20, this means that there will never be more than 200 particles in existence. If you were to change the Particle : Lifetime control to 100, then the number of particles could reach 1000 before the original particles started dying off. However, the Particle : Max default of 500 would force the particles to stop being generated after frame 50, until the original particle started dying off, thus bringing the total to below 500 again.

So to (hopefully) simplify; Multiply the particle rate by the particle lifetime to get the total number of particles you will have at once. Make sure the particle max is higher than this number to keep the flow from being interrupted. You seem to already grasp this based on your post, but these controls still seems to me to very specifically answer the question you are asking.

Neophyte wrote:

3) So lets move on to the speed setting. As discussed before, this option affects the velocity of the particals only, not the speed of the effect. This can be seen by comparing our stock particle effect to the one with an adjusted speed setting of 1.000 and then another with a speed setting of 20.000. The speed at which the particles leave the emitter is changed allowing them to either hover just over the emitter until death or fire blazingly across the frame respectively.
As mentioned before, I don't understand what the speed of the effect is, in this context. How are you separating the speed of the particles from the speed of the effect?

Are you trying to control when new particles are created (rate) or the distance a particle travels on each frame (speed). I've watched your video, but if the speed at which the particles move is not what you are trying to change, then I have no idea what you mean by the speed of the effect.
Posted: Sat, 21st Jul 2007, 2:46am

Post 15 of 19

Neophyte

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I apologize for the confusion. What I mean by the speed of the particle Vs. the velocity of the particle is my mistake. I should have wrote:

The speed of the newly created particles is too fast for the effect that I am trying to create. In everything that I have tried from the max number on screen to the release rate and lifetime have all effected the density of the effect (release rate and lifetime) or the overall size of the effect (speed and lifetime).

Basically, watch the placeholders being emitted with the plain stock settings of the particle effect. Note the speed at which new particles are created/released. Now change the settings to any varible you see fit out of speed, max, lifetime, and rate; the only thing I notice is the amount of particles released based on the release rate and the distance they travel from the emitter based on speed/lifetime. The "speed" or "frequency" at which the particles are released is the same, almost as if it were completely independent from the other settings. That is what I am trying to change; to slow the movement of the particles so that the effect is that of a slow moving cloud. Does that make any sense?

Again, I apologize for the short comings from the previous post. I was extremely tired and frustraited from playing with it all night. I hope that I may have made myself a little more clear in what I mean.
Posted: Sat, 21st Jul 2007, 4:45am

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Axeman

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SuperUser

Oh I think the confusion here is as much me as it is you. Don't worry too much about it. Well, it really sounds to me like you want the particles to move slower. Is that fundamentally what you are trying to say? The smoke in your clip is a long ways away, and therefore should move slower. How do you get the particles to move slower?

If this is in fact the question, then you need to set the particle speed gradient to its lowest setting. With no gravity and the speed all the way down (0.0100) you get this result. If you turn the speed up one notch, to (0.9345) you get this. With the speed down all the way (0.0100) and gravity set to (0.01) you get this. Those are the slowest speeds you can get with this particle engine.

If you need slower speed, as mentioned, you can slow down the render in your editor. If this becomes necessary, keep in mind that you can render out the effects layer on its own, with an embedded alpha channel, to prevent the background from being burned into your rendered footage.
Posted: Sat, 21st Jul 2007, 2:06pm

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Neophyte

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You nailed it. I guess I shouldn't have worried so much about sounding intelligent and just layed it out in Layman's terms. I was worried that if I asked "How can I make the particles move slower" I would get the same answer as some of the other post saying it had been answered or telling me to experiment with the system. I did everything I thought of except observe how the particles acted after emission; I was "focusing on the archer rather than the arrow" so to speak which ironically is backwords lol.

Thank you so very much Axe.

(ps. I tried and tried to replicate your clips but to no avail lol... I was using "point" emission rather than "shape"... bascially over looking the obvious, much like the whole particle speed issue. Thanks again)
Posted: Sat, 21st Jul 2007, 3:20pm

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Axeman

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SuperUser

No problem. So did you get them moving slow enough? I do understand that getting very slow speeds can be tricky, and at the low end of the speed range there isn't really very much control.
Posted: Sat, 21st Jul 2007, 5:57pm

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Neophyte

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For the most part, yes. I almost wish there were a gravity slider much like the speed slider so that as soon as the particles crest an object gravity would have a strong effect on them instead of a total gravity, but now I have something I can work with. Thanks again, and I'll post a link to that section of the video to see what was finally rendered after 2-3 days of frustration at one's self lol.