You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Family Values ..."ongoing"

Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007, 10:03am

Post 1 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

This is an ongoing production of my homage to Sin City
and Frank Millers "Family Values" graphic novel using cgi
animation.
The first two sequences are what I've put up in Cinema so it's not really a trailer/teaser but actual beginning of
movie.
i'm using the actual novel as a working script with some fantastic voice over by "The Skull Hunter"....without who's help the project would have floundered and also a great guy "cory" a man of many voices.


More Info
Posted: Wed, 4th Jul 2007, 9:09pm

Post 2 of 42

GlennS

Force: 1400 | Joined: 28th Oct 2005 | Posts: 49

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

Dave,

Without a doubt the best thing you ever put online. It captures the mood of the comics 100%.
A nice blend of 3d, effect layers and depth of field simulation, great voices and spot-on music.
The only reason i cannot give it 5 stars is that i'm waiting for the rest of the movie (and yes i know where the story is going ).
and this is PG - don't think that the rest will be PG rated smile
I really look forward to the next installment !

WaveX
Posted: Fri, 6th Jul 2007, 12:12pm

Post 3 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Thanks Glenn
Glad you liked the new bit and I hope I can keep up the style throughout the full movie.
So once again many thanks for taking the time to post as I do appreciate the effort.


Cheers
Dave
Posted: Sat, 7th Jul 2007, 3:53am

Post 4 of 42

Plainly

Force: 1537 | Joined: 27th Dec 2006 | Posts: 767

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I like the athmosphere of your movie.

Some of the CGI is very good, but I think some things could be worked on a little more.

For example, the shot of the girl driving in the car was extremelly good; however, the shot right after that, where we saw the car driving on the road, looked a bit fake, mostly because of the texture of the road, I think (it was too blurry).

Overall, good animation, though.

Good job!

Keep up the effort.

.................................................................................................-Plainly
Posted: Sat, 7th Jul 2007, 1:51pm

Post 5 of 42

Greybro

Force: 670 | Joined: 18th Apr 2003 | Posts: 195

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Very fine work here Dave. I wish there were more Poser films of this quality available. Perhaps a Poser Zombie film would be in order. smile
Posted: Sun, 8th Jul 2007, 2:06pm

Post 6 of 42

Helly08

Force: 119 | Joined: 13th Jul 2006 | Posts: 2

Member

You've managed to continue the Sin City feel to the second part, can't wait to see the finished film.
Posted: Sun, 8th Jul 2007, 8:31pm

Post 7 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

For "Plainly Canadian."...
I think you have upset my killer hero by saying he was a girl and I hope you don't live by "Basin City"....LOL
Thanks for taking time to view and comment it is appreciated.

Dave
Posted: Mon, 9th Jul 2007, 8:47am

Post 8 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hi Greybro
I'm glad you liked "Family Values" and thanks for commenting and voting.
Zombie movie.....hehe.....what a good idea.

Dave

Last edited Tue, 10th Jul 2007, 8:03am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 9th Jul 2007, 2:41pm

Post 9 of 42

ferral

Force: 940 | Joined: 21st Nov 2002 | Posts: 163

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Dave,

Fantastic stuff! You've managed to capture the Sin City vibe perfectly. Your animation skills keep getting better and better and I can't wait to see the whole film.

Oh no - you've inspired me to get off my butt and do something.

Great job!
Posted: Tue, 10th Jul 2007, 9:39am

Post 10 of 42

Zephlon

Force: 2282 | Joined: 28th Jun 2005 | Posts: 254

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

The Animation was amazing i would have to say. But for an intro to a movie, so far the plot doesn't really grab me to much. But that could be because its only the first two parts, and there is more to the intro?

But quick word of advice (i'm sure you already know) its all about the intro, you have to MAKE people want to finish it.

3/5 for the amazing visuals, but movie's are not only about the visuals thus for the average score.

Keep up the good work
Posted: Tue, 10th Jul 2007, 12:10pm

Post 11 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Zephlon

Thanks for watching and commenting but please be aware that
this piece is not a trailer or teaser or a set piece to advertise the movie .
It is purely what I've done so far , the finished product will take me until the end of the year.

The actual visuals are one the the most important parts ,trying to capture the "Sin City" look was my main concern at this time.
The completed version I hope will be fully entertaining with a great story by Frank Miller brought to life on the small screen.

Your comments on visuals are truly appreciated.

Dave.
Posted: Tue, 10th Jul 2007, 5:23pm

Post 12 of 42

Meetle

Force: 1475 | Joined: 30th May 2004 | Posts: 26

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I liked the Sin City Theme a lot though some effects could have been better. But overall nicely done.

I have seen that kind of animatics before... What program did you use?
Posted: Thu, 12th Jul 2007, 6:12pm

Post 13 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Meetle
Thanks for review and comments but could you be more precise
about effects could have been done better.


I use Poser,afterfx,fxhome,vue6inf,cinema4d and premiere pro2 in
fact anything I can lay my hands on...lol


Dave
Posted: Thu, 12th Jul 2007, 8:30pm

Post 14 of 42

Meetle

Force: 1475 | Joined: 30th May 2004 | Posts: 26

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

davlin wrote:

Meetle
Thanks for review and comments but could you be more precise
about effects could have been done better.
Hehe - Sorry. I think there's a couple of minor adjustment to make wink

1) When the main character Carmen walks beside the car it looks likes she is flying or levitating. (She's moving faster than she's walking?!)

2) Maybe you should work a little more with the camera as well. When zooming in on the male in the german car, (hehe) it should after my opinion change from fast to slow in a smoother transition instead of fast to stop.

I know it's hard to create some good looking 3D and especially human characters. Yours must have been very time consuming cause it looks great.

That's all.
- Meetle
Posted: Thu, 12th Jul 2007, 9:24pm

Post 15 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Thanks meetle
Carmen doing her walk was deliberate attempt at surreal cam work and editing took me bloody ages ...lol

The other shot was a purpose made shot it was not a zoom or cam tracking I wanted the car to drive into the cam and stop without the usual easy in/easy out .

But I do appreciate what you said and I think there is always room
for different opinions and I certainly welcome yours as you've put some efort into watching it and commenting.
BTW I like you short clip...very stylish.
thanks again
Dave
Posted: Fri, 13th Jul 2007, 12:33pm

Post 16 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Meetle

I've been looking at that shot (VW) and the more I look the more I agree with you it does'nt seem to work well...I can be too clever sometimes...I shall review that shot again as I'm still WIP.

So thanks again


Dave
Posted: Tue, 17th Jul 2007, 3:36pm

Post 17 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Very interesting stuff going on in the cinema we seem to have now got a family of voting plonkers.
I've just recieved in the last few hours a 1star and to beat that a
0 star....mmm not seen that before.
The joys of democracy.....lol......I give up.
BTW all of the extreme low votes have no comments....does make you think.
Don't get me wrong, members have a right to vote in any way they deem fit but sometimes there is a limit to what borders on downright insulting.

I would love to hear from members on this issue.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 11:53am

Post 18 of 42

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

All voting systems and indeed all applications based upon user-generated content, are prone to issues with the quality of that content.

By the nature of the way these systems are written, everyone is equal, since everyone can be a victim of poor content. On the whole, everyone gets bad feedback, but the level headed people know that its both inevitable, widespread and basically equal. The system is therefore to all intents and purposes, stable.

While the victims of unruly behaviour are inclined to believe they are the sole victim, the fact is it happens to everyone. Since penalising is always performed manually, the penaliser must be on-call all the time, to penalise the perpetrators within an equal time and in an equal way, lest other victims feel even more victimised. It is simply implausible, for the fxhome moderation staff to detect, judge and act upon every minor injustice. Therefore in the case of the voting system, basically, we don't.

This is essentially Zero-Sum game theory.

There are occasions where voting goes utterly nuts and we wade in, but a singular low vote is not "utterly nuts" - its "equality".
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 12:10pm

Post 19 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Xcession
I understand the obvious but what I don't understand is the anonymous members who cannot and do not not become part of the "balance"of fainess they are subject to no rules or explanation
and that's my concern and frustration.

I've been a member for a long time and seen all the problems and been part of previous discussions on this point.
I personally don't know the answer to this but perhaps these
"sleepers" who are obviously purchases of Fxhome products could be better vetted or something.

Thanks for replying

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 12:16pm

Post 20 of 42

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'll respond to what you wrote in the zombie survival thread there then, as you wished:

The administration has a responsibilty to its members that the forums are run correctly so it doesn't wash when you say "we all know it happens"
To make the forums run correctly is indeed the responsibility of us moderators. But do keep in mind that fxhome is primarily a software company site.

what is the point of putting on movies in cinema if you don't care what happens in the voting.
Getting your work seen and get feedback. I personally care about feedback that helps me evolve. Votes are like schoolgrades to me. A desperate try to put something vague and entirely subjective into an objective measurement. Plus the fact that the fxhome cinema features shortfilms, trailers, reels, music videos, effects tests etc all in the SAME cinema with the SAME voting system make those even more worthless in my eyes. If you want my honest opinion.
However, that's not the point of issue.

You should be more concerned with the fxhomers who are screwing the system
I am currently dealing with one who was deliberately screwing the system, in case you haven't noticed.

Do summit about it
Do something about the fact your film got a vote you don't think is justified? As there's no objective measurement as to what a film deserves, this 1 star vote might as well be an honest opinion. Do you want me to do something about the fact someone has a low opinion of your work? I can't.

Do something about the fact something voted your film low for reason X? Well, then first I'd have to know what exactly reason X is. And who am I to decide, which reasons are objectively valid and what reasons aren't? Is "I want to prove that voting abuse is a problem" a better reason to vote low then "I simply don't like this guys face"? According to you it might be, I don't think it is.

Do something about the fact someone voted low without a comment? Well, about 80% of the cinema votes are uncommented. We can't force people to comment. It's their perfect right to vote without giving any reason, be that low or be that high. Happens all the time, as it should.

The simple fact is: There's no LAWs when it comes to voting. And even if there were, there's no WAY anyone can maintain those laws. Or can you give me an objective reason why those low votes on your film are evil and should be dealt with?
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 12:46pm

Post 21 of 42

Mellifluous

Force: 5604 | Joined: 6th Oct 2002 | Posts: 3782

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

I saw this ages ago and liked it, but I forget what I've seen and commented on and haven't done that or rated. You captured the spirit of the movie well, and for doing that congratulations and great work.

Regarding voting - be more laid back. Sh*t happens. In the real world, people are going to act in a way you don't like, and more so in a web forum where there's a certain anonymity. Their vote is their comment, their point of view. Accept it and move on, but don't be discouraged.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 12:55pm

Post 22 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Marco
You still don't seem to grasp the point of this...you keep going on about low votes etc and we should'nt get upset being judged..you know me better than that .
So please don't insult me with comments like you should go on other forums and take the criticism metered out by the masses.

I am frustrated at some member/s who come along and put zero/or 1 vote on a particular film but only that film in top ten....then disappears this does not fall into the catagory of film critic.

I accept the frailties of a cinema top ten with various types of movies and clips but deliberate down voting by unknown members is not and should'nt be acceptable.

I stress again this NOT about my film it's about ALL our films and I hope a revision of rules or something to reduce this mockery of the cinema.

Your thoughts about the general cinema voting I totally agree with
but I just felt that by bringing up the subject might help in making
some of the culprits aware they are being logged.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:03pm

Post 23 of 42

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I'll also respond to your post from the Zombie movie here, as requested:

davlin wrote:

Of course everything you say is true but what a shame you were'nt as quick to respond when I put up a post about this
Where is this post? I haven't spotted it myself. If you mean the one a few posts above in this topic, then it's no surprise we didn't spot it - we're not actually omnipresent. smile

It's impossible to monitor every single thread on the forum, bearing in mind that there are hundreds of discussions going on all over the place at the same time. Even with a good team of moderators, it's easy to miss something. Bear in mind we also have a huge amount of email correspondence to deal with, plus our non-admin duties.

And that's why we always tell people to contact a moderator or the FXhome team if they have a grievance or a worry. We can't just find posts using our magical moderating homing sense. smile

If your post was in a separate topic, however, please link me up to it.

after being in chat room as well.
When you came into chat, I checked out the voting and at the time it seemed fine to me - unfortunate that your film got low ratings but, as Sollthar says, everybody has different tastes. That's just the way it goes. Even the great movies in the all-time top 10 have some low votes.

When dodgy votes do occur, people simply need to contact a mod and we'll look into it. If it does indeed seem dodgy, we'll take action. Bear in mind sometimes our judgment might simply be that somebody unfortunately didn't like the movie in question.

The only real problems occur when people take unlitateral action and start trying to fiddle the votes in a misguided attempt to 'fix' things. That's when the system becomes unbalanced and goes a bit wobbly.

It seems also the only way to get any kind of response on this site is to act like a 13year old as it seems to geared for that anyway.
How very patronising to, well, every single FXhomer as well as the FXhome team that created the website and the mods that maintain it.

I don't see why I or any other member should just sit back as some "kid" decides to screw the system and just say to ourselves "Oh well these things happen".....
Taking matters into your own hands only screws the system more, though. Applying dubious votes to other people's movies in order to 'highlight the problem' is astoundingly inconsiderate - and emblematic of the '13-year old' behaviour of which you're accusing others.

Sometimes it is necessary to bring things forward even if it is a little controversial to get things aired and perhaps get some problems solved.
It seems that when our reaction after you talked to us on chat didn't suit your own viewpoint, you decided to try and break the system yourself. It would have been far more helpful to come to us again and reiterate your problem, or to start a topic on the forum where intelligent debate could be undertaken.

By embarking on a mission of sabotage, instead you've completely undermined whatever good there may have been in your original point.

As for changing the rules, what would you suggest?

Last edited Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:07pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:06pm

Post 24 of 42

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

You still don't seem to grasp the point of this...
You're right, I do indeed not grasp what all the fuss is about.
Could you elaborate on what exactly the problem is? Just imagine I know nothing about it.

I am frustrated at some member/s who come along and put zero/or 1 vote on a particular film but only that film in top ten...
I still see no difference. You're frustrated because someone voted low on your film. And as a result, your film fell in the top10.

Can you give me any objective reasoning why these particular 1 and 0 star votes are evil and should be dealt with? You still owe me a proper reasoning apart from nicely placative sentences like "this mockery of cinema".

deliberate down voting by unknown members is not and should'nt be acceptable.
How do you know they deliberately voted you down? As far as I can see, they haven't left any kind of comment. You're only ASSUMING you know why any of these two voted so low.
And what do you expect us mods to do? Like you, we can only ASSUME we know why those low votes took place. And I sure hope no fxhome moderator will correct anything only based on a pure assumption.

So I'm sorry, but the only one openly abusing the voting system to benefit his own needs and viewpoint is you in this case.
Plus you're being insulting with your claims that one has to behave like a 13 year old here. We moderators do our best, even if you're not always happy with our decisions or if we might miss the odd and occasional thing.

Last edited Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:13pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:08pm

Post 25 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hi Mellifluous
Thanks for kind words and taking time to view again...hehe.

With reference to voting I'm just trying to bring to the front the
point about "sleepers" and hope there is a way to solve it.
Please don't think I'm having a tantrum because of low votes put on my movie ( I'm happy that lots of you gave good review on other forum)...I just don't like the way these s...s can get away it with time after time without someone having at least summit to say about it....Yeah I know....s...t happens.....lol

Marco and I are having a discussion about this right now..
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:14pm

Post 26 of 42

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

One thought occurs to me: you are aware, right, that the cinema votes are done as an average?

If 1 person votes it a 0, but your film deserves better, then i'm sure the huge majority of normal, pleasant people will ensure it gets the vote it deserves.

At the time of writing this your movie is rated 3.64. Thats would place you somewhere around 5th, in Today's Top 10. It may differ come tomorrow, when the top 10 is recalculated, but you've only lost a day or two in the top 10.

The bottom line with voting problems, is that the solution can really only be a technical one. A human solution will always have human flaws.

Technically there are various ways to reduce unpleasant voting but it could never be prevented. A few seemingly plausible, but totally flawed solutions follow:

1. Only allow users who own products to vote: this is already done, so would make no difference.

2. Only allow users with [n] prior posts to vote: if you hate something enough, you'll happily wait a few days to give it 0*. Plus this will only result in the forum filling up with bogus posts by people trying to get their quota. More to the point however - movies are submitted every day - its only a matter of time before a perfectly pleasant user, posting regularly encounters a movie which totally rubs them the wrong way and gives it a 0*.

3. Remove the 0* level completely: Then 1* becomes the old 0*, with people complaining they've been bumped off the cinema top 10.

4. More systems (human or machine), working round the clock to check up on every movie vote placed and do something about bad ones: What is 'bad'? Even a human can't necessarily be a good judge of that.

5. Only able to vote if you've submitted movies to the cinema yourself: well that rules out 95% of the fxhome population.

6. Some kind of 'vetting' system for users: based on what and how? Over the internet? Nothing will detect if someone is just giving the right answers to get through.

7. Only vote if you're over [n] years of age: this would cripple the community, given that all the products are aimed an the inexperienced, who by no coincidence are often young.

I could think of more, but whats the point? No one is going to design these systems as they're just varying degrees of fascism. Its an open forum, where people are allowed to express their opinions, within reason, but occasionally express themselves in undesirable ways. Frankly i'd prefer that unpleasantness was limited but still possible, than for the entire voting system to be controlled by machiavelian rules.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:55pm

Post 27 of 42

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

If I remember correctly...

A system which requires you to comment if you are rating below a 2 or above a 4 has been planned for a long, long time. The moderators have always been aware that some users vote in order to benefit their own movies positions and are often removing votes and messaging suspects when it's very obvious that they are abusing the system.

In this scenario davlin, that you didn't contact the team and instead went on a revenge trip has more or less removed any desire to help you. You became a problem by causing more work for us.

The system will never be flawless, though work is undergoing to make abuse more difficult or at least easier to spot so it can be dealt with. Until then, the moderators are who you need to contact - which does not require insulting a large portion of the users or going on vote frenzies.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:55pm

Post 28 of 42

JackPot

Force: 10109 | Joined: 3rd Oct 2005 | Posts: 384

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Pro's
- I thought it was cut together well.
- I thought the style captured the original sin city movie nicely.
- The enviroment modelling looked good.
- Voice over work is cool.

Con's
- All the animation seemed like stock animation.
- The avatars seems like generic stock characters 'adjusted' from posers presets.
- Nothing particularly original, as you said your taking the story from a graphic novel (although there is nothing particularly wrong with that I guess but you certainly wont get extra praise for that from me)

I gave you 3/5, purely because I thought you really did capture the original style well. But as I said there was not much originality there for me to warrent it as above average. I was not to bothered about you using poser to create your genericy looking characters, as I guess whats the point in inventing the wheel? The main thing bothering me was the animation let it down. It was very sterile, all the movement had no character and in places the people float a bit (as someone previously mentioned).

I do realise that animation is really really difficult and time consuming. But seeing as this appears to be a project to show case your animation skills I think you could do a bit better. Id say the animation is the worst bit.

Sorry I seem pretty negative, but to re-itterate, I really thought the style was great and the modelling was good, hence 3/5.

Last edited Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:59pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 1:57pm

Post 29 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Marco

I don't think I can be any clearer please re-read what's been said.

This is NOT about my movie it's about vote rigging please understand that if nothing else.

All the fuss is being caused by you I'm just responding to your posts
and really I don't think you left me any choice in that matter.

Perhaps if more energy was spent on checking out Fxhomersxxxxxx
instead of turning this into Davlin's screwed the cinema farce.

I accept criticism of my actions as I had expected it and rightly so
but it still does'nt help to attack me and sideline the actual problem
of which I'm sure many members are fed up with.

Tarn
I also accept that my comments about site being geared for 13year
was insulting and for that I apologise.

As for rules mmm....perhaps members with movies in top ten or have submitted should not vote on others films....i know but your brother can....dah!
I think the average type marking needs to change and perhaps use a star counting system.
I know there are massive problems with any system and as Marco said you are in main a software company .....I forget sometimes.

with respect

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 2:04pm

Post 30 of 42

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

All the fuss is being caused by you I'm just responding to your posts
Erm... I thought I was responding to you in order to try to debate a problem YOU brought up.
If you're seriously going to go "All the fuss is caused by you" now, then I guess we can leave this aside, as it's absolutely no big deal for me and I don't intend to cause further fuss.

Take care
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 2:13pm

Post 31 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid

Please be very careful with your words...I did not go a "revenge trip"...I knowingly adjusted my post so it was obviouis to Seven
that summit was'nt right and he correctly asked me why ....I had promised to give him 4stars but said I was'nt voting on films in the same top ten......so I put in 2stars, to make a point, when I decided to vote....this is not the actions of revenge.
Also if you follow all posts on this you can see I instigated it ...not really the actions of a revenge trip would you say.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 2:32pm

Post 32 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Marco

You were not debating you were too busy going on about members,me perhaps,getting upset about low votes and being sensitive to reviews and having a sulk....jeeze.
Not once did you attempt to be constructive and discuss the real
point about vote rigging.
I personally think it is a worthwhile subject which has been thoroughly explained by Xcession.I know problems exist I just hoped maybe someone could think of a better way.

I accept I should have done this another way but promising to give 4 stars then only giving two does'nt really constitute a public hanging.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:00pm

Post 33 of 42

neoglitz

Force: 1011 | Joined: 15th Dec 2005 | Posts: 156

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

In the majority of situations, I think the system works. Put the votes received on a Bell Curve and I am sure you will find a closely reflected sampling of what the public thinks of your film. However, when you choose to "go to war" about something like this it draws a lot of attention, good and bad.

You need to take it all with a grain of salt and stop obsessing about it. Honestly, I am still trying to figure out how you made it this far in life, if your age is true on your profile.

Notwithstanding the above, you will not gain sympathy from me or other members by verbally lashing out at the elders of this place.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:12pm

Post 34 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

neoglitz

In your profound wisdom where does "lashing out" at members come from.....certainly not from me.
I have the greatest respect for all members and the team and if you may have noticed a bit of harshness in some of my posts it'll only be in defense of a previous posts.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:30pm

Post 35 of 42

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

You're right, the way you chose to start this debate didn't drive well with any of us moderators and that's obviously reflected in the response you got.
If you want an unfueled debate, then maybe you should try different ways next time you have an issue. As Tarn has mentioned, we're not omnipotent and we don't spot or even read every single post. Next time you have a problem and want a moderator to help out, contact one or more of us per PM. Maybe even start your own thread devoted to the problem for other people to discuss?

I guarantee you, you'll not get a public hanging for that. smile


To the point:

I've tried to make clear to you, that there's a huge amount of reasons why people vote. Some reasons you might agree with, some you might not. Some people vote 5 on their own movies, some vote 0 on other movies, some give 2 star ratings because they hate comedies, other give 5 star ratings because a film has high contrast, some people love Star Wars, others hate it and so on and so forth.

When so many different people come together like they do here in fxhome, you're BOUND to encounter votes you don't agree with or votes that might be motivated through what you'd consider "lower morals".

That doesn't necessarily justify action by a moderator. We mods can't go around deleting votes simply because they appear dodgy all the time.
As xcession has correctly stated, this would be pretty fascist and I'm happy to say that I can vow for all moderators and the whole fxhome team to be fair and thoughtful about every decision they make or at least they try to be - we're still only human.

So, if you have a genuine proposition, you're welcome to post it and maybe your idea finds it's fans within the fxhome team. You're very welcome to actually contribute something to the problem, not just add to it by vote rigging yourself.

If the fxhome team or the mods decide not to take further actions, you'll also have to accept that, agreeing or disagreeing. But yes, this is a software site owned by a software company who does way more then your average one already. Causeing them more work because a bonus gift they decided to give away to their costumers might not be the perfect solution is definately not the way to go, in my opinion.


Hope I made myself clearer then this time.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:35pm

Post 36 of 42

neoglitz

Force: 1011 | Joined: 15th Dec 2005 | Posts: 156

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

My point is made by your own words...

davlin wrote:

In your profound wisdom...
...if you may have noticed a bit of harshness in some of my posts it'll only be in defense of a previous posts.

davlin wrote:

Marco

You were not debating you were too busy going on about members,me perhaps,getting upset about low votes and being sensitive to reviews and having a sulk....jeeze.
Not once did you attempt to be constructive and discuss the real
point about vote rigging.

davlin wrote:

Hybrid

Please be very careful with your words

davlin wrote:

It seems also the only way to get any kind of response on this site is to act like a 13year old as it seems to geared for that anyway.

davlin wrote:

Marco
You still don't seem to grasp the point of this...
So being harsh toward others in defense of your position is acceptable? That would mean people who disagree with your opinion of how things should be deserve the "lashing" you give them. Oh ok, I guess you are your age.
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:55pm

Post 37 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Marco

You are perfectly clear (as he tightens noose around neck) as I hope I am to you.
My motivation was purely about rogue members ,we all know exist,
and in some small way perhaps find a way through to an answer.
I agree I should have handled it better but I thought it was a good idea at the time....hehe.....now pay the reaper.
I hope nobody has misinterpreted my actions and i think "vote rigging" on my behalf is a bit strong....but I'll have to accept it.
I have accepted the problems that there are in trying to solve this issue.......I wish I had an answer....but who knows maybe there might be a way.

Keep well

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 3:59pm

Post 38 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Neo

LOL.....now that's what I call a good post......well said.
The joys of being an old is people expect you to be a miserable old git.....and why should I disappoint them.


Well said and good for you

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 4:08pm

Post 39 of 42

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Heh, you shall be amnestied. smile

Yeah, no one's claiming the vote system to be perfect. We're all constantly trying to improve it and work on it. As with the rest of the site.

So rest assured, we ARE trying. wink
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 4:18pm

Post 40 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Marco
Thanks that's all anyone can expect it's just good to know that people well be thinking of it.
In no way was I criticising you or your fellow "Gallowmen" and I do
understand the probs.

So thanks for your time and comments

perhaps neo has it right.........lol

keep well

Dave
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 6:45pm

Post 41 of 42

The Nemesis2161

Force: 1040 | Joined: 21st Mar 2007 | Posts: 218

VisionLab User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Listne everybobdy. I know the animation was good, and it captured the sin cit feel, but I just didn't like it! Okay, Freedom of speech, I did not enjoy it. Also I didn't get some of it. You continuesly played the sin city theme song and I just don't think that worked.

Sorry, I didn't know this would happen if I could change it I would.

But, God, relax, it'd just a video!

sad
Posted: Thu, 19th Jul 2007, 6:58pm

Post 42 of 42

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

nemisis

Perhaps you should make a comment next time you decide to award
such a high rating.

best wishes

Dave